-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter Annika
- Start date
- Status
it's Competitive
no i was explicitly prevented from switching out. might be a glitch idk
The "You may be trapped" message does not actually mean you are trapped. It means the Pokemon can potentially have a trapping ability. Had you attempted to switch out, you would have been able to do so.
no i literally did not have the ability to switch out. the message that was displayed was the one that is displayed after you have already attempted to switch out and the bar with the rest of my pokemon was absent. i have no doubt that it was shadow tag
Idk what to tell you but that was probably competitive. Do you not have the replay for this battle of yours? The message cake mentioned is always there if a pokemon has the shadow tag or arena trap but goth is always competitive
There is nothing wrong with this set. It's just underwhelming
The issue with grass types having 3 grass types moves and an additional support move/weak attack was already common, as seen with previous versions of Venusaur (Leech Seed/Sleep Powder/Substitute/Giga Drain) or Whimsicott (Encore/Leech Seed/Energy Ball/Stun Spore), and it was acknowledged as a problem, given the tendency for said sets to get hard walled by grass/grass-poison types, etc. It was apparently fixed as I went a month without getting this Bellossom set whatsoever, but now it is back.
Just saw some Metagross running around, I'd think it'd be cool if scarf trick or boltbeam elemental punches were added along with the WP agility and SR sets.
Also, could you introduce a few more of the G-maxes like machamp and kingler into the game. Granted, that's if G-max stays in the game
Also, could you introduce a few more of the G-maxes like machamp and kingler into the game. Granted, that's if G-max stays in the game
Gmax mons are only added if their gmax moves are good enough to be used. Kingler isn't better than rain and +1 attack would be generally better than critical hits for machamp
Geomancy and Hidden Power have been dexited, so it runs physical sets for choice items.
Oh, I missed geomancy being dexited.
I guess with physical sets, it can net KOs on chipped Ho-oh, Moltres and Talonflame when scarfed, OHKO Blissey and Good, while allowing it to hit Shedinja. Honestly feel like an ideal scarf set would be mixed (Moonblast, CC, Rock Slide, Psychic), but I understand that's not really feasible if band (or specs) are to be possibilities.
breh
強いだね
sr on dusk mane necrozma is a waste of a very good pokemon. l72 nerfs ubers hard to the point that l72 dusk mane necrozma is worse stats-wise than metagross; for reference:
-Necrozma's Steel STAB is marginally weaker, Psychic STAB is marginally stronger, EQ is of course weaker
-Its physical bulk is significantly worse and its special bulk is slightly worse (for Prism Armor, slightly better and significantly better respectively)
Using it to set rocks is a waste of a pokemon and there is nothing more disappointing than losing a game to a pokemon that you simply cannot KO through recovery moves because you do not do enough damage without dragon dance.
Similarly, I think Blissey is also a shit SR user that has much better things to do with its limited moveslots.
skuntank likes having both defog and sucker punch and wants either two STABs in the back or fire blast over one of those moves. with 5 moves (sucker punch / crunch / poison jab / defog / fire blast) it will at least always roll defog or sucker punch, meaning it is always more valuable than "mon that does tiny amount of damage with its low BP STABs and then gets sacced for aftermath damage"
taunt: this may save you in a pinch, but having defog will save you more often because you can actually remove hazards instead of being permanently on the backfoot because your opponent set unremovable webs
toxic: home exists so toxic is no longer a valuable commodity on all the random shit that gets it by level or egg. not worth running. not like drapion runs toxic
Scarf mew is flaming garbage that literally never does anything valuable beyond be fast; don't know how to fix it
-Necrozma's Steel STAB is marginally weaker, Psychic STAB is marginally stronger, EQ is of course weaker
-Its physical bulk is significantly worse and its special bulk is slightly worse (for Prism Armor, slightly better and significantly better respectively)
Using it to set rocks is a waste of a pokemon and there is nothing more disappointing than losing a game to a pokemon that you simply cannot KO through recovery moves because you do not do enough damage without dragon dance.
Similarly, I think Blissey is also a shit SR user that has much better things to do with its limited moveslots.
skuntank likes having both defog and sucker punch and wants either two STABs in the back or fire blast over one of those moves. with 5 moves (sucker punch / crunch / poison jab / defog / fire blast) it will at least always roll defog or sucker punch, meaning it is always more valuable than "mon that does tiny amount of damage with its low BP STABs and then gets sacced for aftermath damage"
taunt: this may save you in a pinch, but having defog will save you more often because you can actually remove hazards instead of being permanently on the backfoot because your opponent set unremovable webs
toxic: home exists so toxic is no longer a valuable commodity on all the random shit that gets it by level or egg. not worth running. not like drapion runs toxic
Scarf mew is flaming garbage that literally never does anything valuable beyond be fast; don't know how to fix it
Last edited:
it was (i assume) a problem and fixed for venu and whimsi because both their grass support moves fail on grass types. but bel's strength sap works fine on grass types.
It has thunder punch. The ideas of band bp/mash/two of eq-boom-punches or scarf mash/eq/punch/punch-or-boom seem neat to me in a vaccuum, but it ("it" being both trick and ice punch as a package) might be too much going on for a mon already running two distinctive sets (sr+boom and agility)
is necrodm not getting morning sun an intentional thing? if not, i feel like it should have that
Not so much agreeing, all blissey requires at a fundamental level is softboiled and one of toxic and softboiled. it'd be optimal to have sr on another mon and heal bell+damage move on blissey, sure, but i'd much rather have sr on blissey than no sr user at all a thousand times over.
If anything i'd recommend removing sucker from skuntank. It scares surprisingly few faster/setup mons it would target, 70 bp off 93 atk is just so weak, with its average damage lowered even more because you could be relying on prediction. Skuntank can live a hit or two from most psychics or whatever with his typing and serviceable bulk, and then just simplify the equation by crunching them. While being able to hit steels at the same time, in this hypothetical no-sucker world. Getting sucker skuntank has left me with two responses in-match, "wow this is what i lost reliable darkstab/hitting steels for! really!" and "sweet i did 20% damage to that opposing wincon that makes no difference long-term". killing sucker would leave it with 4 moves,
agree on taunt not worth
but even though toxic isn't a commodity, it's still always valuable, but it's especially valuable on skuntank bc he can tox persistent hazard setters that undo his defogging, or tox tanks and whatnot that laugh at his damage output. imo its the best move not currently on his set. acid spray, explosion, and (dare i say it) fire spin could be surprisingly serviceable, but like no.
admittedly im not up to date on what sets are popular, this one definitely should not be one of them
Stuff reported has been fixed.
breh
強いだね
Would it be possible to have some sort of counter for overlapping type weaknesses to avoid getting teams that get steamrolled by one type? Got an opponent with lead salazzle + 4 dark weak Pokemon vs. my lead Obstagoon. I'm starting to notice, especially since Home Pokemon were added, that this is a common feature of rands teams, honestly maybe just because the pool is bigger to allow for this. Maybe like 2 weaknesses to the same type = reject further Pokemon with weaknesses to that type. Might lead to issues with high weakness Pokemon (ice types, some grass dual types) / Pokemon with ability immunities or resistances (ex. Mamoswine is not fire weak, eelektross is not ground weak), but would be extremely preferable to getting teams like [TypeA][TypeA + TypeB][TypeC][TypeC +TypeD] with a lot of overlapping types and (thus) overlapping weaknesses. Maybe still acceptable if the Pokemon is somewhat fast and frail anyway (Pheromosa isn't going to be using those defenses, Deo-A isn't going to be using those offenses, etc.).
Similarly, would it be possible to avoid having a whole team that is disgustingly slow? It feels like you often get these awful teams where the whole thing is like 2 awkward somewhat ok mons with a little under 200ish speed and then 4 slow, defensive but not really (ex. musharna without moonlight, cofagrigus, etc.) Pokemon that certainly take hits, but just don't work in tandem. Maybe like if each member's Speed<[arbitrary base speed, say 100] at #4, reject members until you get one that is above that speed.
Similarly, would it be possible to avoid having a whole team that is disgustingly slow? It feels like you often get these awful teams where the whole thing is like 2 awkward somewhat ok mons with a little under 200ish speed and then 4 slow, defensive but not really (ex. musharna without moonlight, cofagrigus, etc.) Pokemon that certainly take hits, but just don't work in tandem. Maybe like if each member's Speed<[arbitrary base speed, say 100] at #4, reject members until you get one that is above that speed.
The problem with all of this is you are suggesting removing some of the random in randbats. There are already measures in place to stop teams from having all the same types (I think 2 or 3 mons of the same type). If you are getting teams weak to one typing then that is mere coincidence and just being unlucky. If we were to continue down this path then randbats is just morphing into battle factory because we are basically trying to create "balanced teams" which randbats doesnt aim for. This is just the nature of randbats.
As for the slow teams, it is basically the same thing above. It's just randbats although I sure wouldn't like getting those teams.
breh
強いだね
Not having 3+ Pokemon of the same type works to hedge your offensive coverage; it doesn't really do much to hedge your defensive coverage. I don't see the functional difference between one being clearly undesirable and the other being somehow acceptable. I don't feel a slippery slope argument fits here either (BF and rands are fundamentally very different as is and will continue to be so; even with less random teams you still have very, very different pokemon) and I don't understand the desire to generate worse teams.
actually the limit to 2 mons being the same type's main purpose is so you have less of a chance to be steamrolled. In the end I have no idea what the effect of this idea would have in team composition and generation. It is quite difficult to patch type weaknesses and it's mostly the nature of randbats to give a super crappy team then a super good one.
breh
強いだね
Like you said, battle factory already does this. Per a very convenient comment, there is already a section that is designed to
It's 1 am and I'm not going to read the whole chunk of code to see exactly what it does, but if I'm interpreting correctly, this should not be awful to do.
the difference is that each one has a single type combo, and restricting it to say one a team doesn't require much effort from the generator and certainly doesn't skew mons rate of appearing. each dual typed pokemon has i would guess 3-5 weaknesses on average. that would restrict teams significantly depending on what the limit is set to. you roll abomasnow for example, you can only have one other mon with each of fire/bug/fighting/rock/steel weakness. then the next dual typed mon would have another 5 weaknesses. quickly you'd reach the limit of weaknesses. i dont think its worth having the script check weaknesses for each mon (and take into account immunities and such because of abilities) for a minimal restriction not only for making the code unattractive but being an unnecessary use of resources.
- Status