Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?

Yeah, if you need any stone besides the one Fire Stone outside Motostoke, you gonna have to gamble on the Digging Bros.
No, Ice and Shiny(maybe Dusk) are the only stones with that problem. Fire/Water/Thunder/Sun/Moon/Dawn are available in the Wild Area, Leaf is in Turffield(Grass Gym), Moon/Sun are also available through Pickup.

Dusk is in Stow-on-Side(gym 4), Shiny is Route 8(the Falinks route, just before the 6th gym), and Ice requires Surf. I assume they did this because of power. Dusk evolves Doublade/Lampent, Shiny evolves...well, nothing special TBH, but maybe Florgess scared them?, and Ice evolves Galarian Darmanitan.

Yes, they made GDarm broken, knew it, and rather than fixing the problem, they just made it take forever to evolve him in-game. Screw competitive, screw Glaceon/ANinetails/ASandslash, just put the ice stone near the endgame and it'll be fine. ><
 
Devil’s Advocate: are the Digging Duo really that much of a pain to utilize? Even if you don’t have access to the easy Watt source of Digging Pa, it’s still fairly simple to just nab a Ghost-type at the Watchtower Ruins to get away from any overleveled mons you might stumble upon. And both brothers are able to dig up the Ice Stone.
 
No, Ice and Shiny(maybe Dusk) are the only stones with that problem. Fire/Water/Thunder/Sun/Moon/Dawn are available in the Wild Area, Leaf is in Turffield(Grass Gym), Moon/Sun are also available through Pickup.

Dusk is in Stow-on-Side(gym 4), Shiny is Route 8(the Falinks route, just before the 6th gym), and Ice requires Surf. I assume they did this because of power. Dusk evolves Doublade/Lampent, Shiny evolves...well, nothing special TBH, but maybe Florgess scared them?, and Ice evolves Galarian Darmanitan.

Yes, they made GDarm broken, knew it, and rather than fixing the problem, they just made it take forever to evolve him in-game. Screw competitive, screw Glaceon/ANinetails/ASandslash, just put the ice stone near the endgame and it'll be fine. ><
Dusk might evolve 2 powerhouses but you dont get Doublade until level 35 (& you can't get it early outside of raids which have their own thing going on) which is about the powerlevel of Bea anyway and you don't get Lampent until level 41. That reads less "power" and more "well you couldn't evolve them earlier anyway".

Meanwhile Darumaka-G is only available at the tail end of the game well after you've gotten surf. Darmanitan is a Monster but also relatively speaking yo uare probably going to get way more of a power boost at evolving "weaker" pokemon early. I...honestly think they just forgot about Glaceon....

Devil’s Advocate: are the Digging Duo really that much of a pain to utilize? Even if you don’t have access to the easy Watt source of Digging Pa, it’s still fairly simple to just nab a Ghost-type at the Watchtower Ruins to get away from any overleveled mons you might stumble upon. And both brothers are able to dig up the Ice Stone.
I didn't bother with them on either of my plays but the watts you get before beating the game kind of suck a lot. Its very low amounts and the Duo takes 500 Watts a pop and that can get burned fast with your watt income especially if RNG isnt kind to you.
 
Devil’s Advocate: are the Digging Duo really that much of a pain to utilize? Even if you don’t have access to the easy Watt source of Digging Pa, it’s still fairly simple to just nab a Ghost-type at the Watchtower Ruins to get away from any overleveled mons you might stumble upon. And both brothers are able to dig up the Ice Stone.
Not in the slightest. It's not even hard to avoid the wild area mons if you know what you're doing. And even if you don't, you get a bunch of Poké Dolls as soon as you enter the Wild Area.

It's really, incredibly easy. Just gotta hope you don't lose too many watts to RNG.

Don't forget about the DLC areas and their dens. I had some fun with an early Exeggutor from the Isle of Armor, and there's an Ice Stone in the Path to the Peak in the Crown Tundra. Ghost types destroy any sense of danger thanks to their innate guaranteed escape ability.
And if memory serves me correctly, Galarian Darumaka is a 1-star raid. Just job to Peony and go crazy.
 
Not in the slightest. It's not even hard to avoid the wild area mons if you know what you're doing. And even if you don't, you get a bunch of Poké Dolls as soon as you enter the Wild Area.

It's really, incredibly easy. Just gotta hope you don't lose too many watts to RNG.
The Digging Bros aren't reliable pre-DLC. 50/200 watts means that you're getting maybe 5 attempts per circuit of the Wild Area, assuming you don't run into a den you can't beat. I used them for an ice stone in my all-Eeveeloutions run, and it took a few evenings of play to finally get one. Like, if you really want a specific item then fine, but I seriously burned about 10K Watts, which is not something I would recommend someone do.
 

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RSE Lotad/Seedot

Let's start with Lotad. Catch it around Lv3. Movepool is Astonish and Growl. This immediately presents a problem: what can it fight in the early game? Most of the early mons resist it (Poochyena) or are immune (Zigzagoon, Whismur) to it. You pretty much need to fight it against the bugs (Wurmple and Nincada). New Problem: You're weak to their STAB (Poison Sting and Leech Life). And they actually do more damage than you because they have higher attack stats and STAB, so just FU. Fortunately, the Bullet Seed TM redeems this problem, but you're left with a 20-50 BP STAB move.

And you're going to be stuck with Bullet Seed for a while. You pick up Absorb at Lv7, which is weaker than Bullet Seed. Then Lotad learns its next STAB at LEVEL 43 for Mega Drain! So yeah, you're not doing that. So you take the evolution into Lombre without delay, get a minor stat boost (still only slightly stronger than your first stage starter - 340 BST). And new problem: Lombre doesn't learn a STAB until Hydro Pump at LEVEL 49! So yeah, that sucks.

Essentially, the midgame here boils down to carrying around Bullet Seed for the majority of the game as your BEST STAB attack until you pick up Giga Drain around Mt Pyre. And you never get to use your Water STAB until you pick up Surf. Like wtf? You're in the late game now and it's finally getting STAB?!

And basically, from Brawly onwards, you're carrying around this 340 BST Pokemon. How long are you carrying it around for? Well, until you get Dive. Your only sources of Water Stones are the Abandoned Ship and Blue Shards (wild Clamperl). Both require Dive to access the stone/shard. So you're carrying this thing around. You want to know what has a similar BST to this deadweight Lombre? Spoink (330), Aron (330), Tentacool (335), Cacnea (335), Koffing (340) and Rhyhorn (345). And you want to know the best part about all of these: Most of them have already evolved! But no, Lombre requires that you lug it around from, basically, Roxanne to Tate/Liza with its awful BST just so you can finally use Ludicolo.

And how's Ludicolo? Well, actually not bad. Still has an awful movepool, but Surf/Giga Drain is the best you're going to get anyways so might as well roll with it.

"But I played Ruby so I got Seedot!" I don't think you have anything to get excited about! Swap out Astonish for Bide and NEVER get an offensive stab move in your first form. You know things are going to get WILD when you need to rely on the Bullet Seed TM to even DEAL DAMAGE! And you're going to be relying on Nature Power too, and, at this point of the game, it's mostly Swift (indoors) and Stun Spore (Grass), with the occasional Shadow Ball (Cave).

So let's evolve this nut and see what happens. Well, you finally get Dark-STAB... at Level 31, and it's Faint Attack (which is okay I guess). That's still basically going to require you to go to Norman/Winona with Bullet Seed as your only STAB. Thankfully, you get access to Shiftry right around when you get Faint Attack, as the Leaf Stone is on Route 119 and only needs Surf. After that, you basically get a Pokemon now. But, like Ludicolo, Shiftry is going to need that Giga Drain TM if you want it to finally ditch Bullet Seed.

Ruby players get basically an equivalent end result between Shiftry and Ludicolo, but Ruby players basically get it 10 levels earlier. But, Seedot fans are also so lucky that Bullet Seed is a TM... I don't want to imagine using it without it.
This so much.

Additionally, you get it all over again when you try using them in ORAS. "It has been three generations, and a lot of Pokémon have got useful upgrades, surely these Pokémon are better in this game?"

Lotad starts off well: Absorb at level 6 and Bubble at 9. Dual STAB right out of the gate, that's nice, even if the moves have really low power. Then Lotad evolves at level 14, and ... oh, you should have held on until 18 to get Mega Drain. Lombre doesn't get it at all. Oh well, it's only a 40 BP move, and at least you have ... Natural Gift from level 12 on. Looking it up, it actually provides quite a bit of power, provided you have berries to throw away. In-game, however, you won't be likely to have an infinite supply of berries at your disposal, so Natural Gift is a non-move.

Anyway, your Lombre can still amble along. Its only Grass STAB has a base power of 20, but just pick up Bullet Seed, and ... oh. Wait. No Bullet Seed TM in ORAS. Absorb it is, then! You get Grass Knot in Fortree and Energy Ball in the Safari Zone, but for half the game you might as well forget being a Grass-type. At least there's Bubble Beam from level 24 on, but 65 BP off 60 SpA isn't going to punch any holes anytime soon.

At least Nature Power is a somewhat decent move in Gen VI. For all practical purposes its BP will never be below 80 this generation, and in grass it will even give you that sweet Grass STAB in Energy Ball. It defaults to Tri Attack in major battles, though. Uproar has also received a pleasant BP upgrade, although it arrives late-ish at level 32. At that point, you're facing Winona, who isn't the easiest foe for Lombre to face.

At level 36 Lombre learns the ever-useful Knock Off, at the same time as your starter reaches its final evolution and you might have picked up a Water Stone or two. Now you're faced with a bit of a conundrum: Do you evolve Lombre? Ludicolo is a nice 'mon, but its strongest move can't be learned after evolution. Sure, it can patch up that moveset nicely with TMs, but Hydro Pump is locked off. Fear of missing out may lead you to stick with Lombre until Hydro Pump is learned: If so, have fun with the 340 BST 'mon until level 44. That's right before Wallace.

So yeah, Lombre has it better in Gen VI, but it's still weak with poor STAB for far too long. Its coverage options have been significantly upgraded, but it still can't put that much power behind them. It's still mediocre even with the power upgrade, especially considering the relative power of the other Pokémon in the game. You're lugging around Mega Evolutions now, remember.

As for Seedot, well ... remember that bit you said about needing Bullet Seed to deal damage at all? And that bit I said about Bullet Seed not being a TM anymore? Yeah, this thing is not going to do you any favours.

Well, at least it gets the awesomely upgraded Nature Power! That's sure to be usefu- ... wait. Seedot learns Nature Power at level 15, that is, by delaying evolution for one level. However, Nuzleaf learns Razor Leaf at level 14. You have to choose between STAB and useful coverage. And don't you think I'm not meaning that literally, because those are your only two options for dealing damage at this point. Your next damage-dealing move is Razor Wind (lol) at level 20.

Fortunately, things pick up for Nuzleaf from that point on. Feint Attack at level 24 gives reliable STAB, and it's not half bad at 60 BP off 70 Attack (not good either, but serviceable). Then at 28 there's Leaf Blade, which is sweet STAB with really nice power. Your conundrum upon evolution is between Nuzleaf's Extrasensory at level 36, or Shiftry's Hurricane at 32. Shiftry has a slight edge as a physical attacker, so it might be a moot point anyway.

Anyway, I think neither of these Pokémon received the upgrades they needed in ORAS. Lotad retains its problem with no STAB until the lategame, while Seedot grows even slower than it used to although it is redeemed later on. As "end products" they are much stronger than they used to, but the journey there is still awfully bumpy for both of them.

RSE Kirlia gets Calm Mind at Lv. 21. Kirlia phase is a non-factor.

Slow Exp. Group is arguably its biggest problem.
Kirlia has serious in-game issues in later generations. I tried using it in XY, and most matches with it followed a similar pattern:
> Kirlia is underleveled compared to the rest of the team, so it is put in the first slot.
> Kirlia faces an opponent.
> Kirlia uses a move that doesn't quite KO the opponent.
> Kirlia takes an attack from the opponent.
> Kirlia has the defenses of wet tissue paper and faints.
> Kirlia gets no XP. Some other team member gets the XP instead.
> Kirlia is even more underleveled compared to the rest of the team.

But yeah, Slow Exp. group hurts it too. If you keep it in the back of your team with Exp. Share on, it doesn't keep up with the rest of the team either. If you put it in the first slot and then switch it out first turn, you keep it alive and up to speed level-wise, but then your other teammates are guaranteed to take a lot more hits than they otherwise would. It really is a millstone until it evolves and can fend for itself.
 
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As someone who used a Lotad in AS I agree 100% that it is still disappointing and I have gone on about it before (& that was the same playthrough with sableye, who was actually really interesting to use), but I do want to make a small note that with Surf in play there's no real reason to wait for Hydro Pump

Maybe that's just a me thing but I generally stick to the reliable & still strong option instead of the slightly innaccurate but even stronger variant.
 
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This whole line, in every game that they are available, sucks cotton balls, but especially in GSC and HGSS. Imagine yourself as an 8 year old playing through Crystal for the first time. You've beaten Pokemon Blue already, but are entirely new to this generation. You just picked Totodile, gotten your pokeballs, and are ready to begin your journey when on the second route you run into this thing.

It's a Grass Type, OMG, one's never been available this early in the wild before. You chuck a ball at it, catch it, and look it over. It's actually Grass/Flying, which is really cool! It has low stats, but it has Synthesis, so it never dies! No attacking moves, but it has Splash. You know who else only had Splash but evolved to be a beast? Magikarp. GF is trolling you again and this thing will obviously become something great later on. Oh you sweet summer child, you couldn't be more wrong.

Hoppip gets tackle at lvl 10, which okay, progress. Then it gets all the Powder moves every few levels after that, which is good, but you could have had a Butterfree with those same powders and Confusion for the same investment. Then evolution! Finally you get your gen 2 Gyarados...wait, this Pokemon sucks. No new attacking moves and it still doesn't kill anything in any hurry. So you check the Pokedex and look, there's still an empty spot between Skiploom and Paras! Maybe it has another evolution, so let's keep it on the team, even though its deadweight at this point. Then, finally, right around the fifth gym, at level 27, you get Jumpluff. And it still sucks, and you wasted a team spot and all that time training it for nothing, because, guess what, the next gyms are steel, ICE, and Dragon. And your best move via level up, is Mega Drain, which you get at level 44!

HGSS doesn't make this Pokemon any better. Chlorophyll is a useless ability on a Pokemon that is somehow both really fast and really fat. Special/Physical split didn't really hurt this pokemon all that much, mostly due to it having very weak offenses to begin with. The best thing Jumpluff has going for it is that it's movepool gets expanded to include Bullet Seed, U-Turn, Bounce, and Memento, giving you at least some utility. TM wise you get Swords Dance and Aerial Ace so you could at least do something if you want to heavily invest in this mon for some insane reason. But you're better off just catching Bellsprout right before the first gym and letting it be your main Grass type.
 
GF trolled everyone wanting to use a Grass type in Johto because, really, your only good option is Chikorita. And, as we all know, Chikorita is the worst of the three starters.
  1. We know Hoppip sucks
  2. We don't need to tell you that Sunkern sucks
  3. We really don't need to tell you that Paras sucks
  4. Maybe we need to do a post on why Tangela sucks (TL;DR doesn't join until before Clair with its only STAB being Mega Drain)
  5. Exeggcute, Gloom (Vileplume) and Weepinbell all require a Leaf Stone, which, in GS, is post-game.
  6. Gloom (Bellossom) and Sunkern require a Bug Catching Contest win, which is a PITA if you aren't emulating.
That literally just leaves Chikorita. I really feel like they built out most of the PokeDex with the beta Pokemon already planned, which would've given us both proto-Leafeon and the Bellsprout branched evolution.
 

Ryota Mitarai

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someone brought up Hoppip. I remember when I used it for the HGSS in-game tier list, it was level 34 and failed to OHKO a level 29 Kadabra with *Miracle Seed* Solar Beam... talk about power issues

Tangela is fine if you grind it up. Growth + Chlorophyll Solar Beam can reasonably help for what is left of Johto, but yeah, it wishes it joined earlier. Why they put it so late is beyond my idea, at most I assume they intended the player to get one with the Pokewalker
 
GF trolled everyone wanting to use a Grass type in Johto because, really, your only good option is Chikorita. And, as we all know, Chikorita is the worst of the three starters.
  1. We know Hoppip sucks
  2. We don't need to tell you that Sunkern sucks
  3. We really don't need to tell you that Paras sucks
  4. Maybe we need to do a post on why Tangela sucks (TL;DR doesn't join until before Clair with its only STAB being Mega Drain)
  5. Exeggcute, Gloom (Vileplume) and Weepinbell all require a Leaf Stone, which, in GS, is post-game.
  6. Gloom (Bellossom) and Sunkern require a Bug Catching Contest win, which is a PITA if you aren't emulating.
That literally just leaves Chikorita. I really feel like they built out most of the PokeDex with the beta Pokemon already planned, which would've given us both proto-Leafeon and the Bellsprout branched evolution.
Tangela can evolve in HGSS though.
 
Tangela is fine if you grind it up. Growth + Chlorophyll Solar Beam can reasonably help for what is left of Johto, but yeah, it wishes it joined earlier. Why they put it so late is beyond my idea, at most I assume they intended the player to get one with the Pokewalker
Tangrowth saves Tangela in HGSS, but it's basically irredeemable in GSC.
  1. You get it at L23 on Route 44, which requires you to beat the Rockets in Goldenrod. This means Tangela will be joining your team roughly 10 levels below where you're currently at.
  2. It's movepool at Lv23 is Vine Whip, Poison Powder, Absorb and Sleep Powder.
  3. It's first move upgrade comes at Lv31 with Mega Drain. That and the Headbutt TM are going to be most of your offense, unless you want to give it Sludge Bomb (contested TM).
  4. Growth comes at Lv46, when you're basically through the Elite Four. This likely means you have Solarbeam now, which it craves to finally be able to hit hard.
That's Gen 2 Tangela. It's just depressing... Not to mention that:
  • It joins just before an Ice dungeon (also featuring Zubat), limiting how much it can be used because it's both underlevelled and has awful special bulk, and making the grind harder. Your alternative option is the route you catch it on, where half of the grass encounters are Bellsprout or Weepinbell. You should probably Surf grind it.
  • The next gym is dragon which means it's getting targeted on its special bulk and is only going to hit the generic trainer's Horsea for good damage with Mega Drain.
  • Will nearly exclusively targets special defense, meaning things suck for Tangela (you might be able to beat Slowbro before it builds up on Amnesias)
  • All of Koga's Pokemon resist Grass (and all but Muk have 4x resists to Tangela). It's not making any progress here.
  • It can actually put in some work for Bruno due to its high defense, though Bruno's Pokemon generally suck (elemental punches Hitmonchan, STABless Hitmontop)
  • Except for Gengar, Karen's team hits special defense and, except for Umbreon, everything resists Grass.
  • Other than Gyarados, each of Lance's Pokemon have coverage for Tangela, and 4 of his 6 Pokemon 4x resist Grass.
 
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This whole line, in every game that they are available, sucks cotton balls, but especially in GSC and HGSS.
IMO the reason you use Jumpluff is one reason: It's got the fastest Sleep Powder in the West. If you give it a Wide Lens, that boosts its accuracy up to 82.5%. Of course what you do once that's done, I'm not sure. Its attacking stats are downright pitiful, but again, that speed gives it some interesting options. Headbutt for potential paraflinch strats if you use Stun Spore as well, and I always love a good Leech Seed user. In Gen 6 it also gets a small and not *entirely* insignificant niche as a SD + Acro 'mon. Won't win any awards but could oneshot a few things. (It's also all on paper, so take this with an entire truckload of salt)
 
Jumpluff had its time to shine in Colosseum at least, where its Speed and utility options make it a great option for shutting down troublesome opponents while its Doubles partner picks up the slack offensively.

Usually a base Speed stat of 115 is unnecessarily high in the main series games because the player has the advantage of EVs and potentially IVs versus most opponents, but the steep level curve at the end of Colosseum means that any extra Speed can prove vital.
 
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As for Seedot, well ... remember that bit you said about needing Bullet Seed to deal damage at all? And that bit I said about Bullet Seed not being a TM anymore? Yeah, this thing is not going to do you any favours.

Well, at least it gets the awesomely upgraded Nature Power! That's sure to be usefu- ... wait. Seedot learns Nature Power at level 15, that is, by delaying evolution for one level. However, Nuzleaf learns Razor Leaf at level 14. You have to choose between STAB and useful coverage. And don't you think I'm not meaning that literally, because those are your only two options for dealing damage at this point. Your next damage-dealing move is Razor Wind (lol) at level 20.

Fortunately, things pick up for Nuzleaf from that point on. Feint Attack at level 24 gives reliable STAB, and it's not half bad at 60 BP off 70 Attack (not good either, but serviceable). Then at 28 there's Leaf Blade, which is sweet STAB with really nice power. Your conundrum upon evolution is between Nuzleaf's Extrasensory at level 36, or Shiftry's Hurricane at 32. Shiftry has a slight edge as a physical attacker, so it might be a moot point anyway.

Anyway, I think neither of these Pokémon received the upgrades they needed in ORAS. Lotad retains its problem with no STAB until the lategame, while Seedot grows even slower than it used to although it is redeemed later on. As "end products" they are much stronger than they used to, but the journey there is still awfully bumpy for both of them.
Thank god that Seedot is at least useful in Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness. You get it with useful moves: Giga Drain, Bullet Seed, Secret Power. Immediately after, if you didn't grind it too much before purifying it so it reaches just 1 level, you can get Nuzleaf immediately with Fake Out.
Yes, grinding for Faint will be a pain and IMO not even worth it. You have pretty much most what you need it's better just to evolve it immediately with the Leaf Stone you get about the same time before you can purify it.
I ran a Shiftry and Ariados core with Flareon in the backslot which did pretty well which is hilarious since all these Pokemon are awful in any other senario.
Flareon gets Fire Blast midgame and Ariados has Signal Beam making it automaticly significantly more useful than in any other playthrough.
Shiftry can also get some neat moves such as Brick Break and Shadow Ball

Btw, remember how awful Yamna was before evolving?
1609155580863.png

It's a pain to find it in GSC and in other games its usually late game. But I want to talk about Colosseum. A game with barely over 40 Pokemon to get and most of them are worthless Gen 2 Pokemon which include Yanma.
What Colosseum does usually is give some of the Pokemon some need start up moves with TMs such as Quilava with Flamethrower, Entei with Fire Blast and Quagsire with Surf.
What does Yanma come with at lv33? Detect, Super Sonic, Sonic Boom and UPROAR.

Detect is fine if you get a Speed Boost Yanma. But what are you going to do with all that Speed? I don't see anything to useful in the moveset to revenge kill opposing Pokemon and nothing like Thunder Wave or Sleeppowder to make Pokemon more catchable.
Umbreon would be a far better user of Toxic if you were to use that.

It comes with no useful offensive moves. Grinding 6 levels to get Wing Attack sounds simple with EXP Share, but that's just 60 BP stab coming from even more pathetic 65 base power. It's the only good offensive move per level up you will get.
You can defeat Justy to get Frustration, but eh... it won't have it's amazing BP for long if you make Yanma a permanent member of your Team.

Shadow Ball is accessable after you fought Suicune and need to battle in Under Colosseum for it. 80 BP physical move.
Any other move is worthless and needs lots of grinding: Giga Drain, Steel Wing, Psychic, Facade.
Or does anyone want to try SunnyBeam Yanma? Also needs grinding in a Colosseum and you can "synergize" with Entei, Typhlosion or Meganium setting up the sun with them... after a speed boost which means you might as well let them set up the sun themselves or use Jumpluff... or anything that can set up weather reliably.

Yeah, Yanma is awful. But hey, there is still that Conpound Eyes Super Sonic :O

Let's just appreciate Yanmega saving this boy's relevancy everybody.
 

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Hoppip gets tackle at lvl 10, which okay, progress. Then it gets all the Powder moves every few levels after that, which is good, but you could have had a Butterfree with those same powders and Confusion for the same investment. Then evolution! Finally you get your gen 2 Gyarados...wait, this Pokemon sucks. No new attacking moves and it still doesn't kill anything in any hurry. So you check the Pokedex and look, there's still an empty spot between Skiploom and Paras! Maybe it has another evolution, so let's keep it on the team, even though its deadweight at this point. Then, finally, right around the fifth gym, at level 27, you get Jumpluff. And it still sucks, and you wasted a team spot and all that time training it for nothing, because, guess what, the next gyms are steel, ICE, and Dragon. And your best move via level up, is Mega Drain, which you get at level 44!
Another "fun" aspect of GSC Hoppip is that this is before proper move descriptions existed, and this could get you into some conundrums. I recall waaaay back in Crystal, when training my Jumpluff, it finally received a new move I had never seen before: Cotton Spore. I had made some use out of Poisonpowder, Sleep Powder, and Leech Seed, and didn't want to delete any of them, so I figured it was time to let Tackle go. I mean, Jumpluff had gone all this time without a good attacking move, so surely this move would have to be its primary STAB and justification for its existence? I was 10 and didn't have English as my first language, mind you. Anyway, I accepted Cotton Spore, headed into battle, and watched in horror as the move merely lowered the foe's speed, wasn't even fully accurate, and now I had no damaging moves on Jumpluff at all. I promptly TM'd it away and slugged through the rest of the game with Hidden Power Dark instead. Sadly enough for Jumpluff, this was an upgrade.

Let's just appreciate Yanmega saving this boy's relevancy everybody.
About that ... Yanmega surely is awesome at a glance, but in Gen IV it wasn't much of an upgrade for in-game purposes. Its most powerful moves are Slash, U-Turn, Air Slash, and Bug Buzz. They are learned at levels 38, 46, 49, and 54, respectively - and 3-5 levels later in Platinum and HGSS (where you get Slash at level 43). Given the wacky level curve in the later games, Yanma is really only redeemed at the very end of Kanto, provided you dragged your move-less Pokémon through that much of the game to begin with.
 
Another "fun" aspect of GSC Hoppip is that this is before proper move descriptions existed, and this could get you into some conundrums. I recall waaaay back in Crystal, when training my Jumpluff, it finally received a new move I had never seen before: Cotton Spore. I had made some use out of Poisonpowder, Sleep Powder, and Leech Seed, and didn't want to delete any of them, so I figured it was time to let Tackle go. I mean, Jumpluff had gone all this time without a good attacking move, so surely this move would have to be its primary STAB and justification for its existence? I was 10 and didn't have English as my first language, mind you. Anyway, I accepted Cotton Spore, headed into battle, and watched in horror as the move merely lowered the foe's speed, wasn't even fully accurate, and now I had no damaging moves on Jumpluff at all. I promptly TM'd it away and slugged through the rest of the game with Hidden Power Dark instead. Sadly enough for Jumpluff, this was an upgrade.


About that ... Yanmega surely is awesome at a glance, but in Gen IV it wasn't much of an upgrade for in-game purposes. Its most powerful moves are Slash, U-Turn, Air Slash, and Bug Buzz. They are learned at levels 38, 46, 49, and 54, respectively - and 3-5 levels later in Platinum and HGSS (where you get Slash at level 43). Given the wacky level curve in the later games, Yanma is really only redeemed at the very end of Kanto, provided you dragged your move-less Pokémon through that much of the game to begin with.
Yeah, running Silver Wind/Air Cutter until the late 40's... is not a good look.

Sadly, that is a gigantic buff for Yanma in-game since it was straight up unusable in older gens. :psytear:
 
Speaking of, in HGSS;
-Falkner somehow has -10 (yes negative) IVs for Pidgeotto. Seems the devs wanted it to be weaker for early game
-Karen on the other hand far beyond exceeds 32 IVs for Houndoom, making it Hella bulkier than expected
Source for this? It seems rather odd to have in-game trainers completely break the stat system that literally every other opponent in the game uses correctly.
 

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