Pokemon: The New First Gen (Submissions for new Pokemon Over, Except costumes)

Just a thought: To prevent this forum from looking dead, we should probably be using it to discuss competitive ramifications of new Pokemon, Megas, Forms, and potential tiers (Yes, I think a tier list would be a good idea) for this "New First Gen"
I'll start by editing the first post to include a tier list of all of the Pokemon, and then we can go from there.
 
can I please ask why the Flamingairy line get Misty Surge if they aren't even affected by terrains
they're flying
also Pixapart still doesn't have stats

Anyway, there is only 2 Pokemon in the whole pet mod with Sticky Web, so let's look at them a bit.

The first one is Spinji.

Spinji has a Bug/Ghost typing, which is kinda sucky defensively, being weak to Stealth Rock and stuff like Flying, Fire, Dark and Ghost. What really isn't helping it defensively is having horrible 60/58/58 bulk, which means if you're going to use this thing to set Sticky Web you're going to have a hard time doing anything else: This Pokemon probably won't get webs up twice. Base 81 speed means you're going to usually get outsped while trying to get webs up, making Spinji unreliable at this role. It can run Prankster to mitigate this issue, although that means it can't set up Webs VS dark type leads. A Prankster Spinji can burn the opponent with Will-O-Wisp or set up Stealth Rocks, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so Spinji actually does have some good utility in that it can set up any kind of hazard bar pet mod exclusive ones. It can also threaten the Dark types out with STAB Bug moves off of base 120 Attack, its only good stat.

Pros:
-Can set up any type of hazard with priority
-Can threaten Dark types with Bug moves or Will-O-Wisp

Cons:
-Appalling bulk
-Defensive typing sucks
-Low speed

Overall, Spinji is good for setting Webs up once, but once they're gone, they're gone. It is a good suicide lead.

The second one is Hyquid.

Hyquid's Water/Bug typing makes it much better defensively than Spinji, weak to Electric, Rock and Flying. It also has 120 base speed, which outspeeds a good portion of the game and it isn't blocked by Dark types like Prankster is. 96/63/81 bulk is still lacking on the physical side, but the special side is decent and it's definitely an improvement on Spinji. While 88 base Attack seems bad compared to Spinji, it has Adaptability and so can still hit hard when not getting Webs up. However, Spinji has access to priority and a much bigger range of hazards and utility moves, while Sticky Web and maybe Rain Dance is all Hyquid can really do. This makes Hyquid much worse as a suicide lead, and as such it should not be sacrificed after setting up webs.

Pros:
-Bulkier than Spinji
-Fairly good defensive typing
-Good speed
-Hits hard

Cons:
-Much less utility than Spinji: Cannot set as many hazards
-Still fairly easy to kill

Overall, Hyquid should be treated as an actual team member with importance after setting up webs, and not a suicide lead. I know it looks like Spinji has less pros and more cons, but the multiple hazard bit is very important.

Now here's a thing: None of the pokemon in this entire Pet Mod can learn Aurora Veil. RIP Veil Offense. Should we consider giving it to some things?
 
can I please ask why the Flamingairy line get Misty Surge if they aren't even affected by terrains
they're flying
also Pixapart still doesn't have stats

Anyway, there is only 2 Pokemon in the whole pet mod with Sticky Web, so let's look at them a bit.

The first one is Spinji.

Spinji has a Bug/Ghost typing, which is kinda sucky defensively, being weak to Stealth Rock and stuff like Flying, Fire, Dark and Ghost. What really isn't helping it defensively is having horrible 60/58/58 bulk, which means if you're going to use this thing to set Sticky Web you're going to have a hard time doing anything else: This Pokemon probably won't get webs up twice. Base 81 speed means you're going to usually get outsped while trying to get webs up, making Spinji unreliable at this role. It can run Prankster to mitigate this issue, although that means it can't set up Webs VS dark type leads. A Prankster Spinji can burn the opponent with Will-O-Wisp or set up Stealth Rocks, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so Spinji actually does have some good utility in that it can set up any kind of hazard bar pet mod exclusive ones. It can also threaten the Dark types out with STAB Bug moves off of base 120 Attack, its only good stat.

Pros:
-Can set up any type of hazard with priority
-Can threaten Dark types with Bug moves or Will-O-Wisp

Cons:
-Appalling bulk
-Defensive typing sucks
-Low speed

Overall, Spinji is good for setting Webs up once, but once they're gone, they're gone. It is a good suicide lead.

The second one is Hyquid.

Hyquid's Water/Bug typing makes it much better defensively than Spinji, weak to Electric, Rock and Flying. It also has 120 base speed, which outspeeds a good portion of the game and it isn't blocked by Dark types like Prankster is. 96/63/81 bulk is still lacking on the physical side, but the special side is decent and it's definitely an improvement on Spinji. While 88 base Attack seems bad compared to Spinji, it has Adaptability and so can still hit hard when not getting Webs up. However, Spinji has access to priority and a much bigger range of hazards and utility moves, while Sticky Web and maybe Rain Dance is all Hyquid can really do. This makes Hyquid much worse as a suicide lead, and as such it should not be sacrificed after setting up webs.

Pros:
-Bulkier than Spinji
-Fairly good defensive typing
-Good speed
-Hits hard

Cons:
-Much less utility than Spinji: Cannot set as many hazards
-Still fairly easy to kill

Overall, Hyquid should be treated as an actual team member with importance after setting up webs, and not a suicide lead. I know it looks like Spinji has less pros and more cons, but the multiple hazard bit is very important.

Now here's a thing: None of the pokemon in this entire Pet Mod can learn Aurora Veil. RIP Veil Offense. Should we consider giving it to some things?
Aroura Veil does seem like a useful thing to have, lets at give that to the dorshellical line. I don't know what the Flamingairy line should get.
 
We could maybe give Aurora Veil to Pixflake. The East form wouldn't be able to utilize it that well, but the West form probably could for its good bulk but otherwise bad stats. All of the other Snow Warning users seem like they'd have other roles they do better than Aurora Veil or would probably be busted if they got it.

Different thing I thought I'd bring up for absolutely no reason is that old weather teams could change a lot in this metagame. Drizzle probably won't get anything new because its two users are fast pivots that only really come in on free switches and there aren't any new rain abusers.. Drought has some bulkier Pokemon, but they don't have movepools yet, so it may come down to whether (weather pun unintended) or not they get recovery. They also don't really have any good Sun abusers. Sand only really has Varibrawl for setters, but it doesn't seem like too bad of one because of its good physical bulk and sand helping patch up its special bulk, and Sandrake also doesn't look too bad as a sand sweeper thanks to its great 140 Attack and passable 90 Speed. Hail may come down to what we give Aurora Veil since Good Hail Teams = Aurora Veil.

Not really sure about the new weather, but if it's viable, old weather will have gained very little and pushed into obscurity.
 
We could maybe give Aurora Veil to Pixflake. The East form wouldn't be able to utilize it that well, but the West form probably could for its good bulk but otherwise bad stats. All of the other Snow Warning users seem like they'd have other roles they do better than Aurora Veil or would probably be busted if they got it.

Different thing I thought I'd bring up for absolutely no reason is that old weather teams could change a lot in this metagame. Drizzle probably won't get anything new because its two users are fast pivots that only really come in on free switches and there aren't any new rain abusers.. Drought has some bulkier Pokemon, but they don't have movepools yet, so it may come down to whether (weather pun unintended) or not they get recovery. They also don't really have any good Sun abusers. Sand only really has Varibrawl for setters, but it doesn't seem like too bad of one because of its good physical bulk and sand helping patch up its special bulk, and Sandrake also doesn't look too bad as a sand sweeper thanks to its great 140 Attack and passable 90 Speed. Hail may come down to what we give Aurora Veil since Good Hail Teams = Aurora Veil.

Not really sure about the new weather, but if it's viable, old weather will have gained very little and pushed into obscurity.
Both rain setters are also rain abusers. Hydraptor gets its Water STAB boosted and its STAB Hurricane gets perfect accuracy, while Monstratus gets perfect accuracy Thunder and Hurricane alongside whatever the heck it has for Water moves.

Also, the Tundra Mightyena costume gets both Slush Rush and Sand Rush. Shame it probably still sucks.
Mega Sunflora's ability is called Sunlight Dash, though I have no clue what the heck it does. Probably related to sun.

Apart from that, yeah, old weathers are dead. Long live New Moon and Raging Winds, I suppose. Come to think of it, are costume suggestions still open?

Now, onto Terrains, can I just say that the Toxic Mist ability is kind of silly since it basically turns Misty Terrain into Toxic Terrain for the user. I think it'd make more sense for it to just have a Toxic Terrain based ability.
 
Both rain setters are also rain abusers. Hydraptor gets its Water STAB boosted and its STAB Hurricane gets perfect accuracy, while Monstratus gets perfect accuracy Thunder and Hurricane alongside whatever the heck it has for Water moves.

Also, the Tundra Mightyena costume gets both Slush Rush and Sand Rush. Shame it probably still sucks.
Mega Sunflora's ability is called Sunlight Dash, though I have no clue what the heck it does. Probably related to sun.

Apart from that, yeah, old weathers are dead. Long live New Moon and Raging Winds, I suppose. Come to think of it, are costume suggestions still open?

Now, onto Terrains, can I just say that the Toxic Mist ability is kind of silly since it basically turns Misty Terrain into Toxic Terrain for the user. I think it'd make more sense for it to just have a Toxic Terrain based ability.
Sun got Blazododo, and rain finally got some viable hydration users, other than that you're kind of right. :/
 
Both rain setters are also rain abusers. Hydraptor gets its Water STAB boosted and its STAB Hurricane gets perfect accuracy, while Monstratus gets perfect accuracy Thunder and Hurricane alongside whatever the heck it has for Water moves.

Also, the Tundra Mightyena costume gets both Slush Rush and Sand Rush. Shame it probably still sucks.
Mega Sunflora's ability is called Sunlight Dash, though I have no clue what the heck it does. Probably related to sun.

Apart from that, yeah, old weathers are dead. Long live New Moon and Raging Winds, I suppose. Come to think of it, are costume suggestions still open?
Hydraptor and Monstratus can abuse rain, yes, but they don't really do much in terms of supporting teams for rain team archetypes. They'll be alright as standalone 'mons, though. Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

Sun got Blazododo, and rain finally got some viable hydration users, other than that you're kind of right. :/
Blazododo looks nice for Sun, but Hydration probably isn't that great on Rain teams, as stalling just burns up Rain turns and most Hydration-based sets are completely reliant on Rain and are focused around stall.
 
i would disagree, because custom abilities and moves are what sets the mod's mons apart from mods that don't allow them. Even if you aren't going to give brand new ones, at least use ones that are already in the mod

Item clause does not exist. Doesn't really matter too much IMO, it's not really that bad.

Question for Jerrytkrot : Can moves granted by costumes only be used while in that costume?
I was thinking that when equipping a costume, the player gets to choose if he wants to replace any of the current moves, and then upon removing the costume, they would revert.
 
can I please ask why the Flamingairy line get Misty Surge if they aren't even affected by terrains
they're flying
also Pixapart still doesn't have stats

Anyway, there is only 2 Pokemon in the whole pet mod with Sticky Web, so let's look at them a bit.

The first one is Spinji.

Spinji has a Bug/Ghost typing, which is kinda sucky defensively, being weak to Stealth Rock and stuff like Flying, Fire, Dark and Ghost. What really isn't helping it defensively is having horrible 60/58/58 bulk, which means if you're going to use this thing to set Sticky Web you're going to have a hard time doing anything else: This Pokemon probably won't get webs up twice. Base 81 speed means you're going to usually get outsped while trying to get webs up, making Spinji unreliable at this role. It can run Prankster to mitigate this issue, although that means it can't set up Webs VS dark type leads. A Prankster Spinji can burn the opponent with Will-O-Wisp or set up Stealth Rocks, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so Spinji actually does have some goodutility in that it can set up any kind of hazard bar pet mod exclusive ones. It can also threaten the Dark types out with STAB Bug moves off of base 120 Attack, its only good stat.

Pros:
-Can set up any type of hazard with priority
-Can threaten Dark types with Bug moves or Will-O-Wisp

Cons:
-Appalling bulk
-Defensive typing sucks
-Low speed

Overall, Spinji is good for setting Webs up once, but once they're gone, they're gone. It is a good suicide lead.

The second one is Hyquid.

Hyquid's Water/Bug typing makes it much better defensively than Spinji, weak to Electric, Rock and Flying. It also has 120 base speed, which outspeeds a good portion of the game and it isn't blocked by Dark types like Prankster is. 96/63/81 bulk is still lacking on the physical side, but the special side is decent and it's definitely an improvement on Spinji. While 88 base Attack seems bad compared to Spinji, it has Adaptability and so can still hit hard when not getting Webs up. However, Spinji has access to priority and a much bigger range of hazards and utility moves, while Sticky Web and maybe Rain Dance is all Hyquid can really do. This makes Hyquid much worse as a suicide lead, and as such it should not be sacrificed after setting up webs.

Pros:
-Bulkier than Spinji
-Fairly good defensive typing
-Good speed
-Hits hard

Cons:
-Much less utility than Spinji: Cannot set as many hazards
-Still fairly easy to kill

Overall, Hyquid should be treated as an actual team member with importance after setting up webs, and not a suicide lead. I know it looks like Spinji has less pros and more cons, but the multiple hazard bit is very important.

Now here's a thing: None of the pokemon in this entire Pet Mod can learn Aurora Veil. RIP Veil Offense. Should we consider giving it to some things?
note: if you're using Prankster Spinji as a suicide lead, you're giving up priority U-Turn as a possibility for your team. Hyquid is the superior websetting choice.

unless im missing something here's the best costume mons (that can make up for their lack of item)

- Superhero Raichu is a scary threat on Wind teams thanks to its Air Approach boosted Sky Attacks executing in one turn during Raging Winds.
Raichu @ Superhero Costume
Ability: Air Approach
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Attack
- Volt Tackle / Amp Slam
- Extreme Speed / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace / Brick Break

(aerial ace is in case Wind runs out while you're still attacking)​

- Tutti-Frutti Vanilluxe has Grassy Terrain to make its Grass moves hurt, and it has speed to execute them. It's no Bulu, but eh, what is?
Vanilluxe @ Mixed Biomass
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252
Timid Nature
- Sweet Strike / Sour Strike / Spicy Strike
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Power Gem

I was thinking that when equipping a costume, the player gets to choose if he wants to replace any of the current moves, and then upon removing the costume, they would revert.
understandable, also long time no see
 
note: if you're using Prankster Spinji as a suicide lead, you're giving up priority U-Turn as a possibility for your team. Hyquid is the superior websetting choice.

unless im missing something here's the best costume mons (that can make up for their lack of item)

- Superhero Raichu is a scary threat on Wind teams thanks to its Air Approach boosted Sky Attacks executing in one turn during Raging Winds.
Raichu @ Superhero Costume
Ability: Air Approach
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Attack
- Volt Tackle / Amp Slam
- Extreme Speed / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace / Brick Break

(aerial ace is in case Wind runs out while you're still attacking)​

- Tutti-Frutti Vanilluxe has Grassy Terrain to make its Grass moves hurt, and it has speed to execute them. It's no Bulu, but eh, what is?
Vanilluxe @ Mixed Biomass
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252
Timid Nature
- Sweet Strike / Sour Strike / Spicy Strike
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Power Gem


understandable, also long time no see
Oh yeah, costume mons get a Z-move in the type they give, so Costumes are no longer outclassed by megas or other items
 
ok so why is Talonflame-Harmo Ubers? Was it too powerful on Raging Winds teams or what?

Also, very importantly, why was Stunfisk-Harmo removed? It was accepted when I suggested it, nobody ever put it on the sheet though ;-;

oh and we should quickban Seedocyte from LC the moment it's released because its broken there.

finally, is the new spreadsheet a list of mons that is coded or is it just incomplete?
 
ok so why is Talonflame-Harmo Ubers? Was it too powerful on Raging Winds teams or what?

Also, very importantly, why was Stunfisk-Harmo removed? It was accepted when I suggested it, nobody ever put it on the sheet though ;-;

oh and we should quickban Seedocyte from LC the moment it's released because its broken there.

finally, is the new spreadsheet a list of mons that is coded or is it just incomplete?
Oops. I thought I put that in Ou.
 
The following was accepted but isn't on the sheet, so I'm quoting it. It's on page 26, so fairly long before submissions were closed.

Anyway, I'll put this forward:
Stunfisk-Harmo
Type 1: Ground
Type 2: Poison
Ability 1: Toxic Surge - Sets Toxic Terrain on switch-in
Ability 2: Poison Point
Hidden Ability: Intoxicate
119, 91, 84, 56, 99, 22,
Learnset by Level Up:
1 - Fissure
1 - Flail
1 - Tackle
1 - Pursuit
1 - Mud Slap
1 - Mud Sport
5 - Bide
9 - Poison Sting
13 - Mud Shot
17 - Poison Gas
21 - Bone Club
25 - Poison Jab
30 - Recover
35 - Bounce
40 - Knock Off
45 - Gunk Shot
50 - Revenge
55 - Flail
61 - Fissure

Learnset by TM:
Toxic
Hidden Power
Protect
Rain Dance
Frustration
Poison Jab
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Earthquake
Return
Double Team
Sandstorm
Rock Tomb
Facade
Rest
Attract
Round
Thief
Topsy-Turvy
Acid Rain
Toxic Terrain
Accelerock
Blade Slash
Payback
Stone Edge
Bulldoze
Rock Slide
Infestation
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Dark Pulse
Confide
Coil

I don't know about breeding or tutors.

Take a Stunfisk. Replace its beak with an iron spike dipped in a purple liquid. Make the orange-brown areas of its body purple and cover it in black splodges. Replace the yellow areas with black. Change the flippers on the sides to look like blades, dipped in purple liquid. Make it 1.5x bigger. That's the design.
Stunfisks in the Harmo region were dying out as all the Pokemon they used to prey on found ways to avoid Stunfisk traps. Because of this, Stunfisk had to evolve in order to go and capture prey itself. From many holes on the bottom of its body, a foul, poisonous and sticky liquid pours out in massive quantities and floods the nearby area, making it much harder for many Pokemon to escape and drowning any that are burrowed in holes. It then uses its newfound strength to smash the stuck Pokemon dead. The liquid melts the prey, allowing Stunfisk to easily gobble them up. Afterwards, the Stunfisk sucks all the liquid back up and flops back to the caves they call home.
Poison/Ground is probably the best STAB combo that a Poison type can get. With a Toxic Terrain boost, Stunfisk's Gunk Shot becomes a very hard-hitting move, making up for Stunfisk's mediocre attack. It also has good bulk with its great HP stat, so it can set up Toxic Terrain many times in a match. Unfortunately, its typing isn't particularly good defensively and it's slow as heck.
pls add
 
Ok guys, I was looking at the spreadsheet, and personally, I think we have a few too many Pokemon (Over 200).
Here is how I'm going to do eliminations.
1. Someone suggests a Pokemon, Harmo-Forme, or Costume, (Non-Legendary, those are being worked on separately)
2. They give justification for why that Pokemon is not necessary for this game, and if it gets 4 or more votes, that Pokemon will be removed.
3. Everybody gets 2 Pokemon lines that they can save from elimination. For example, I will be saving the Temporook line, and the Dracomill line as they seem like really cool concepts that I would want in-game.
 
For example, I will be saving the Temporook line
:D

anyway, I'll suggest to remove the Cerebrey/Conacampus/Amygdilor line because of the following reasons:

-They're kinda boring. Mono-psychic typing is common and weak, while with the stats and abilities, it seems kind of straight forward. Sure, Pure Power on a special attacker seems cool, but really it just makes it another boring mixed attacker (Mono-Psychic on a physical attacker seems bad). I know this is a 'gen' where monotypes are very rare but seriously, mono-Psychic is too common 4 me.
-They don't seem like they'll have any real competitive impact due to mediocre bulk, good but not good enough speed and only average special attack for a special attacker, as well as the aforementioned horrible typing (Imagine how much more used Cresselia would be if it was Psychic/Fairy, cmon).
-They don't seem to have either a design or movepool, making it less painful to remove than other lines.

I'll save Catherithe and Froxic. Fun fact, Catherithe was originally called Catheterithe but it was misspelt Catherithe on the spreadsheet. I then realised that a catheter is actually the name of a medical device used to extract urine from someone who can't normally pee (The 'extraction of liquid' definition was why I used it in the name originally, since the pokemon sucks blood and is about draining moves). Let's leave it as is because that'd be awkward :3
 

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