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Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!
- Thread starter POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN
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That should be fine. You can't have to of the same Pokemon, but I don't see why you can't have two Pokemon w/ the same move. TR would become almost impossible to pull of if only 1 Pokemon on your team could learn it.
Double Fake Out can be nice, but it doesn't accomplish much. The whole Point of Fake Out is to stop a threat and give the Fake Out user's Partner more time to eliminate that threat. If they both use Fake Out, than your not doing much outside of frustrating the enemies Pokemon on turn one. They can still come back on turn 2 w/ more than 75% of their HP (Fake Out isn't the most powerful of attacks). The only Pokemon running sash is Smeargle. Nobody will rely too heavily on sashed Pokemon because of all the weather teams messing it up and priority attacks.
BTW, as far as I know, the only thing that can outrun jolly Weavile is Timid Mewtwo/Jolteon. He outpaces modest Mewtwo.
Give me till later tonight or tomorrow at latest to get a good EV set and some calculations, but I can imagine you would want to be able to sub at a minutes notice, so you obviously need an HP divisible by 4, so you can make 4 Subs and not get stuck w/ 3 subs and 1 Hit Point away from 4. You'll also want to make sure you have gargantuan HP so your subs will have more bulk and so they can w/stand the intense attacks ubers launch all too commonly.
W/ Palkia, Dialga, and Latios around, he won't be seen too much. He's still an option, but there are usually better choices. Garchomp is still perfectly usable, and he is even faster than all the ubers bar Mewtwo. Garchomp also has a surprise factor. While no one will expect him, no one will carry Defense EVs. Most extra EVs go into Sp Defense because of the prevalence of Special Ubers and their higher Sp Attack.
Garchomp is also the only Pokemon capable of OHKO Dialga. I have been trying to figure out a way of stopping TR leads of Clefable + Dialga, but no Pokemon (not even max Attack adamant Rayquaza if it carries more than 200 HP EVs, which most will) could KO him in time. And because Clefable will use Follow Me, he can't be double teamed. Groudon is also an option, but it's a pain to rearrange your team just to change your ubers (since Garchomp is not a legendary Pokemon, he doesn't count as an Uber in the VGC)
All the Ubers, though are also Garchomp's down fall. While Garchomp is a force to be reckoned w/, His Special Defense isn't the highest and will often be 2HKO'd. But that doesn't stop Weavile or Ludi, and as long as your carefull, he should work.
He can't OHKO too much, though. He can 2HKO max HP Kyogre w/ a neutral nature while holding a Life Orb and w/ Adamant Nature. Over half the time, though, you will run Jolly to out speed Timid Palkia. Jolly Garchomp still OHKOs and outpaces Timid Palkia, though, which is something most ubers can't say.
Garchomp is also the only Pokemon capable of OHKO Dialga. I have been trying to figure out a way of stopping TR leads of Clefable + Dialga, but no Pokemon (not even max Attack adamant Rayquaza if it carries more than 200 HP EVs, which most will) could KO him in time. And because Clefable will use Follow Me, he can't be double teamed. Groudon is also an option, but it's a pain to rearrange your team just to change your ubers (since Garchomp is not a legendary Pokemon, he doesn't count as an Uber in the VGC)
All the Ubers, though are also Garchomp's down fall. While Garchomp is a force to be reckoned w/, His Special Defense isn't the highest and will often be 2HKO'd. But that doesn't stop Weavile or Ludi, and as long as your carefull, he should work.
He can't OHKO too much, though. He can 2HKO max HP Kyogre w/ a neutral nature while holding a Life Orb and w/ Adamant Nature. Over half the time, though, you will run Jolly to out speed Timid Palkia. Jolly Garchomp still OHKOs and outpaces Timid Palkia, though, which is something most ubers can't say.
Yeah, it will still hit both.
Yes. Single targets will shift to the Follow Me user and multi-target attacks won't close in.
Garchomp cannot OHKO Dialga....
If you want to cancel out trick room, just use your own TR and the two will cancel out. Also Togekiss and Smeargle are much more potent with Dialga. Togekiss is immune to groudon which makes EQ a less attractive move to your opponent. Smeargle can also simply darkvoid you after the TR and helps more than clefable by having both Fake Out AND Follow Me
I originally used Garchomp main to outspeed and kill Palkia but most Palkia's carry Haban berry. Garchomp is however, the second best EQ user in VGC 2010 second only to Groudon.
True that, though both Toge and Lugia will need some speed investment to at least get those subs up quick. I don't find trouble in outrunning a Tyranitar or something (unless it's scarfed, but chances are, they won't be). Since Lugia will lead with Weavile, being about to Fake Out a faster opposing lead may let Lugia run less speed EVs because it'll get that sub up anyways.
A set for Lugia and Togekiss will often revolve around weather you want them to be faster or not.
Togekiss has a respectable speed of 80, but that is too low for it to outrun any ubers, who are trapped in the 90s and often run high speed anyway. And sadly, it can't outrun too many of the slower Pokemon, either because they run max speed as well. It can outrun max speed Jolly Scizor by one point if it has 224 speed EVs, and Max speed Modest Ludi outside of rain by one point if it has 176 speed EVs. Both of these numbers are also assuming you have 31 speed IVs and a neutral speed nature. 31 IVs, 252 EVs, and a +speed nature lets you outrun Adamant Toxicroak. The bottom line is, that if You want to outrun something w/ Togekiss, it will require some heavy EV investment.
Adamant Rayquaza may OHKO, but no one really runs SE in the VGC because of foul accuracy and that it doesn't hit anything outside of the somewhat uncommon Toge, just as common Ho-Oh, and Ray. Most other Pokemon resist it. Most Ray's usually run Draco Meteor, Overheat, Dragon Claw, EQ, Extremespeed, Protect, and Energy Ball (mainly for Kyogre and Groudon in VGC). He will sometimes run SE in singles, but I have yet to see anyone use it on Ray in the VGC.
I didn't copy down the exact numbers, but a Togekiss w/ at least 180 HP, 104 Attack, 120 Defense, 104 Sp Defense w/ an Adamant Nature will usually take a Thunder from max Sp Attack modest Kyogre and Palkia as well as a Rock Slide from Adamant max attack Gorudon, losing 70-85% of it's health. It loses about 80-95% from Max Sp Attack positive nature Mewtwo's Blizzard or Thunder. If you want the exact numbers, let me know and I'll redo the calculations and give them to you tomorrow.
I gave him Adamant and Hustle because poor Toge can't deal too much damage to ubers (once again, I forgot to copy down numbers, but will get them if you want), so his best attacking option is to finish weakened Pokemon w/ Extremespeed.
Togekiss has a respectable speed of 80, but that is too low for it to outrun any ubers, who are trapped in the 90s and often run high speed anyway. And sadly, it can't outrun too many of the slower Pokemon, either because they run max speed as well. It can outrun max speed Jolly Scizor by one point if it has 224 speed EVs, and Max speed Modest Ludi outside of rain by one point if it has 176 speed EVs. Both of these numbers are also assuming you have 31 speed IVs and a neutral speed nature. 31 IVs, 252 EVs, and a +speed nature lets you outrun Adamant Toxicroak. The bottom line is, that if You want to outrun something w/ Togekiss, it will require some heavy EV investment.
Adamant Rayquaza may OHKO, but no one really runs SE in the VGC because of foul accuracy and that it doesn't hit anything outside of the somewhat uncommon Toge, just as common Ho-Oh, and Ray. Most other Pokemon resist it. Most Ray's usually run Draco Meteor, Overheat, Dragon Claw, EQ, Extremespeed, Protect, and Energy Ball (mainly for Kyogre and Groudon in VGC). He will sometimes run SE in singles, but I have yet to see anyone use it on Ray in the VGC.
I didn't copy down the exact numbers, but a Togekiss w/ at least 180 HP, 104 Attack, 120 Defense, 104 Sp Defense w/ an Adamant Nature will usually take a Thunder from max Sp Attack modest Kyogre and Palkia as well as a Rock Slide from Adamant max attack Gorudon, losing 70-85% of it's health. It loses about 80-95% from Max Sp Attack positive nature Mewtwo's Blizzard or Thunder. If you want the exact numbers, let me know and I'll redo the calculations and give them to you tomorrow.
I gave him Adamant and Hustle because poor Toge can't deal too much damage to ubers (once again, I forgot to copy down numbers, but will get them if you want), so his best attacking option is to finish weakened Pokemon w/ Extremespeed.
Hmmm, interesting. I'm not too worried about Lugia's ability to sub up, especially with the Weavile Fake Out. I mean, I could run someone else other than Togekiss and maybe not have a double-sub team at all, but eh, it was worth a shot. Toge may not be the best option (unless I get the XD version and want Helping Hand or something screwy like that).
He can run through teams after an SD, but it's relatively the same situation as w/ all Stat boosters in VGC. It's all about weather or not you Pokemon will get a chance to set it up. Ray will probably be a good Pokemon to run SD, you just have to be carefull of Pokemon like Mewtwo, Latios (pretty rare, though) and Palkia who will outrun him and possibly OHKO him. Here is a good example of someone doing something like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZNcPetWVVw&feature=related
This also shows an example of a set most Togekiss will run in VGC. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help, but I am a bit tied up right now and had to rush w/ Toge (why I forgot to copy down the calculations).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZNcPetWVVw&feature=related
This also shows an example of a set most Togekiss will run in VGC. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help, but I am a bit tied up right now and had to rush w/ Toge (why I forgot to copy down the calculations).
No, just no... You use Calm or Careful nature with Togekiss, depending on what type of attack you will be using. Your purpose isn't to kill stuff with it, it is to provide support (Follow Me, etc.) ALWAYS use the boosting nature on your highest base stat (in this case, sp. def) to get the most benefit possible (the nature provides a 10% increase, not a specific number increase). Also, use Serene Grace for your ability. Togekiss isn't going to do much damage regardless and you are better off trying to get flinchax with air slash or something.
In other news, I have a pretty awesome team idea that I refuse to divulge and will never reveal unless I get to Nationals/Worlds ^________^
Who would be a good 4th for a TR with Blissy/Dialga lead with Snorlax waiting.
edit: LOL at the shedninja own Kyogre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPjMoAWMDPQ&feature=related
edit: LOL at the shedninja own Kyogre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPjMoAWMDPQ&feature=related
But it does hurt the accuracy and consistency, and the whole point in using Obama is that it messes up the opponent's strategy by getting rid of all their Rain Dance boosts and Sun, and Choice Scarf undoes that.
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