Porygon-Z (QC 1/3)

[RotomPoison]

Overview
########

- Strong duck robot
- Great abilities and a good movepool
- Boosting moves Agility NP
- Weak STAB, outside Adaptability
- Bad typing, offensively and defensively
- Can annoy its own counters on a choice set due to access to Trick

Double Dance
########
name: Double Dance
move 1: Tri Attack
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Nasty Plot
move 4: Agility
ability: Adaptability
item: Life Orb
evs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

- Tri Attack is a strong STAB boosted by Adaptability
- Dark Pulse provides perfect 2 move coverage
- Nasty Plot against defensive teams
- Agility against offensive teams

Set Details
========

- All the Speed you'll want after an Agility (ScarfApe) while still outspeeding most walls unboosted
- Life Orb boosts all attacks consistently
- Adaptability boosts Tri Attack consistently
- Lum/Silk Scarf


Usage Tips
========

- Choose what and when to set up based on the opposing team. Stall gets destroyed by NP while frail offense or just weakened teams get cleaned up after an Agility
- Try bluffing a choice set early game if not much risk is involved, which will allow you to set up easier late game
- Dark Pulse never outdamages Tri Attack except against Ghost and Psychic types if running Adaptability, making it the safer move to spam on predicted switches

Team Options
========

- U-turn/Volt Switch
- Something to remove annoying MAggron
- Wallbreakers that let P-Z clean up

Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Tri Attack
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Dark Pulse / Trick
ability: Adaptability / Download
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========

- Tri Attack is STAB
- Thunderbolt hits Pokemon like Suicune on the switch for more damage than Tri Attack
- Ice Beam hits Noivern, Hydreigon and the rest harder
- Dark Pulse for perfect coverage
- Trick to mess with a wall switching in for the rest of the battle

Set Details
========

- Choice Specs makes Porygon-Z extremely strong, making it incredibly hard to switch in to
Adaptability boosts Tri Attack consistently
- Download is a risky extra boost to all special attacks
- Modest gives you more power but you now to lose to Jolly Heracross and Timid Nidoking
- Timid beats them at the cost of power

Usage Tips
========

- Just break walls, that's really it
- Bluff a Scarf and force something out, then hit the switch for a lot more damage
- Trick requires prediction but can really mess with something like Snorlax, but is also a 1 time thing, so make sure you do it at the right time

Team Options
========

- Physical wallbreakers such as Heracross
- Something to remove Steel types and to a lesser extent Ghosts so Choiced P-Z can spam Tri Attack
- Any form of Speed control. Paralysis/Sticky Web/Tailwind

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Tri Attack
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Thunderbolt / Trick
move 4: Ice Beam
ability: Adaptability / Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Modest

Moves
========

- Tri Attack is STAB boosted by Adaptability
- Dark Pulse for perfect coverage
- Thunderbolt hits Pokemon like Suicune on the switch for more damage than Tri Attack
- Ice Beam hits Noivern, Hydreigon and the rest harder
- Trick to mess with a wall switching in for the rest of the battle

Set Details
========

- Choice Specs makes Porygon-Z extremely strong, making it incredibly hard to switch in to
Adaptability boosts Tri Attack consistently
- Download is a risky extra boost to all special attacks
- Modest because Hera is gone and Scarf King is bad

Usage Tips
========

- Just break walls, that's really it
- Use as a revenge killer, but keep in mind the things it commonly revenges it can never switch in to, so if you suspect the opponent will switch out then act on it, as Porygon-Z will likely 2HKO anything not named Snorlax
- Trick requires prediction but can really mess with something like Snorlax, but is also a 1 time thing, so make sure you do it at the right time

Team Options
========

- Physical wallbreakers to help clean up
- Fire/Fighting/Ground types to remove Steels so P-Z only needs to worry about Tri Attack. Pursuit helps here too
- It's a Scarfer so you can't really throw too many specifics besides certain cores

Other Options
########

- Obviously Hyper Beam
- Analytic on any set not running Agility
- Hidden Power Fighting
- Break Florges and whatever with a mixed set

Checks & Counters
########

This thing has almost no counters because of Trick and a ton of power but has a ton of checks

- Special walls: Blissey, P2, Florges, Umbreon, Roar Empoleon, Sableye etc but they all hate Trick. Mega Aggron gets a special note as even though its SpDef isn't great it resists Tri Attack and can't be Tricked
- Revenge killers for anything besides an Agility set: Hydra, Darmanitan, Mienshao, and any Scarfer. Priority from Pokemon like Infernape too

^ I'll update C+C in the write up

 

[Ununhexium]

your double dancer EVs are impossible

i believe you mean 156 speed. 256 exceeds the limit of an individual stat and the total limit

 

[RotomPoison]

your double dancer EVs are impossible

i believe you mean 156 speed. 256 exceeds the limit of an individual stat and the total limit

Just caught that, fixed

 

[LightningLuxray]

Might already know this but you have two Agility sets... :o

 

[TheManlyLadybug]

Are all of these sets really viable?

Edit: yay 200th post

 

[RotomPoison]

Are all of these sets really viable?

Edit: yay 200th post

No. Double Dance and Specs are obviously viable, the others are there if QC says to keep them, since they're kind of borderline viable for the most part

Removed 2nd Agility set

 

[Ranger Mike]

Double dance is incredibly good also I say add analytic to oo since porygon z forces a lot of switches.

 

[Ash Borer]

Dark Pulse > Shadow Ball, imo. You're only going to ever use it on ghosts and the flinch chance is more useful than the sdef drop.

If you run adaptability Tri Attack does the same damage to Cobalion as shadow ball and whatever else resists dark / normal anyways

 

[RotomPoison]

Double dance is incredibly good also I say add analytic to oo since porygon z forces a lot of switches.

Added

Edit: Also did what Ash Borer said

 

[Ranger Mike]

Another thing is that psyshock should get the oo mention as opposed to psychic correct me if I'm wrong but the only mon that psychic beats is weezing as opposed to psyshock considering how fighting types like machamp if ever seen will usually be wearing the assault vest therefore making psyshock over psychic. Also allows it to do more damage to florges

 

[RotomPoison]

Another thing is that psyshock should get the oo mention as opposed to psychic correct me if I'm wrong but the only mon that psychic beats is weezing as opposed to psyshock considering how fighting types like machamp if ever seen will usually be wearing the assault vest therefore making psyshock over psychic. Also allows it to do more damage to florges

Done

 

[col49]

i'm a fan of yung peezee

as a rule of thumb, i'd argue that the boosting sets should be running adaptability, whereas the choice sets should run download. the rational for this is that the boosting sets, being able to switch up moves and primarily capitalize and / or spam its stab attacks as a result, benefit from adaptability on a far more consistent basis, whereas choice sets cannot throw around stab as liberally, as normal-type attacks aren't particularly comfortable lock-ins in many situations, making it more useful to have the ability to boost up non-stab attacks passively.

i'm not all too sure about the slashes on specs; boltbeam isn't reason enough for inclusion, and since peezee gets stab on neither it doesn't benefit all too much from it tbh. tri attack + dark pulse should be mandatory, but then it mostly boils down to utility, since those two moves cover most everything in a vacuum. i'd argue for a set of tri attack / dark pulse / thunderbolt / trick ; thunderbolt is basically the most useful 'coverage option' from my experiences, since it gives peezee the ability to push a little extra damage vs. bulky waters sans 'pert, and it offers a fairly consistent 'middle-ground' attack when you're unsure on the opponent's play (ex: hitting both chandelure and heracross for the 2hko). usually trick isn't overly useful here, since throwing around attacks is often far more detrimental to defensive playstyles then trading items would be, but honestly peezee doesn't need another attack most of the time, and it can help it do a little more work late-game under certain circumstances.

i'd also really consider mention of a bulkier spread @ lum berry / silk scarf on double dance, since the added longevity gained from the extra bulk + lack of lo recoil really extends its lifespan in a game, which can be p.beneficial to certain teams. also, i'd advocate jumping up to 176 speed evs to outpace modest /non-hp fight/ chandy, since that's a pretty significant benchmark for 20 evs imo.

i'd argue that the set order should be dubdance > specs > other set-up sets (kinda interchangeable in worth imo) > scarf, since the shift that came with hydreigon put peezee that much further along the losing end of the scarf 'mon curve, but perhaps there are those who may think otherwise, idk.

 

[RotomPoison]

Why did I not see this ^

I originally put Ice Beam to guarantee the OHKO on Hydreigon, but I'll slash it after Trick for now.

So because PZ has perfect 2 move coverage regardless I'm considering moving NP and Agility to OO. It doesn't really need the 3rd coverage move and appreicates the choice based on team matchup. If that happens, set order would be Double Dance > Specs > Scarf. QC opinion?

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Cosigning most of what Col49 said, you'll want to state what exactly the EVs on the double dance set help you outspeed (Should be Scarf Mienshao), and that a Timid Nature with 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe allows for the same benchmark but with more bulk investment. You do lose a little bit of power, though. I also feel Lum Berry / Silk Scarf might even be more useful than Life Orb on it, since they don't hack into your longevity. One puts Tri Attack at an obscene amount of power strong enough to 2HKO Cobalion, while the other saves Porygon-Z from crippling status that could render it useless or put a timer on it. LO could be mentioned in set details or something, idk.

Also, you could list a mixed set with Download and Double-Edge in Other Options, as Double-Edge with a +1 boost from Download does an obscene amount to Florges and Umbreon, allowing it to function as a solid lure for both

 

[RotomPoison]

Did everything, except I left LO on the set. I'll probably end up slashing Silk Scarf before it, but for now it's fine there.

I still want opinions on moving pure Agility and NP sets to OO.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I would recommend keeping the Agility set. Porygon-Z hits really hard as it is, but its Speed appreciates the boost. Max Special Attack Modest Adaptability Life Orb Porygon-Z has a ~90% to 2HKO Specially Defensive Mew after Stealth Rocks. It can't really break through Florges without Psyshock, though. Being able to outspeed common Scarfers like Darmanitan and Victini is the biggest plus on this set. It can even afford to invest in some bulk and still outspeed these threats. That's my input on the matter.

 

[RotomPoison]

I would recommend keeping the Agility set. Porygon-Z hits really hard as it is, but its Speed appreciates the boost. Max Special Attack Modest Adaptability Life Orb Porygon-Z has a ~90% to 2HKO Specially Defensive Mew after Stealth Rocks. It can't really break through Florges without Psyshock, though. Being able to outspeed common Scarfers like Darmanitan and Victini is the biggest plus on this set. It can even afford to invest in some bulk and still outspeed these threats. That's my input on the matter.

You just described what the double dance set, but it also keeps good coverage and a way to break stall with NP

 

[HypnoEmpire]

True, but you won't always get 2 turns to set up and the extra coverage is always nice.

 

[RotomPoison]

True, but you won't always get 2 turns to set up and the extra coverage is always nice.

The point of double dance is not to set up twice (but it's nice when it can) but to set up the correct move based in the opponents team. A pure Agility set lacks that flexibility

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I think its the choice of setup vs coverage. I think we need a second opinion on this, though.

 

[RotomPoison]

Ok then. kokoloko Calloflochie (sorry if it's annoying to tag you but he's right we do need more opinions, I don't mind writing up the set if you think it's viable, same applies to pure NP)

 

[col49]

sorry to post again here, and again not qc, so take this w/a grain of salt etc. etc., but generally i agree with the mentality that dubdance eclipses singularly-minded boosting sets in the majority of situations, and almost want to say that they could be relegated to oo; normally, the same sweeping abilities can be ascertained from the extra coverage+possible added boost of an item such as life orb as it could from a somewhat larger investment in bulk + lum berry or some such item v.stall (where having a one-time 'out' from status greatly exceeds the immediate power boost from orb imo), making the extra coverage useful largely against offensive builds with certain specific threats (ex: ibeam for koing hydreigon after less prior damage, etc.). i haven't all too much experience with either agility or nasty plot, mind you, but having running dubdance rather heavily, i can say with certainty that i have hardly regretted forgoing coverage for a secondary boosting move, as in doing so, i feel it makes peezee far more of a match-up reliant sweeper (np+3 attacks being notably mediocre v.offense, agility+3 attacks struggling v.stall, etc.) for not all that much in return.

tl;dr dubdance peezee is a lot more consistently useful match-by-match, while more single-minded boosting sets don't gain all that much in specializing themselves

also, if you're going to mention a bulkier spread, the one you list is inefficient; 232 hp / 120 spa / 156 spe with a modest nature yields the same spa and spe stats as the currently listed alternative spread, with a substantial increase in bulk. personally, i stand by the spread 224 hp / 108 spa / 176 spe + modest as the most consistent for bulky dubdance variants, but qc may have a more optimal spread, i couldn't say.

 

[RotomPoison]

irc logs

22:28 RotomPoison does anyone think pure agility/pure np p-z is worth a set
22:28 LightningLuxray tbh no...
22:28 killerkingler pure agility maybe
22:29 LightningLuxray Double Dance is like the only set
22:29 killerkingler but thats a light maybe
22:29 RotomPoison yeah i want to remove them
22:29 killerkingler nasty is waaay to slow
22:29 LightningLuxray Besides what is Tri Attack + Dark Pulse missing out on?
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat I find it funny how last gen Double Dance P-Z was never even used
22:29 killerkingler nothing
22:29 RotomPoison nothing
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat Now this gen
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat It's used
22:29 LightningLuxray I used it
22:29 LightningLuxray Last gen
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat more than any of its other sets
22:29 LightningLuxray fun af
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat I mean like it wasn't its main set at all
22:29 *** badass joined #xyuu
22:29 +++ ChanServ has given op to badass
22:29 LightningLuxray Yeah tru
22:29 killerkingler i ran dual dance PZ
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat last gen porygon-z ran everything except dual dance
22:29 killerkingler i just sucked at using it
22:29 CoolStoryBrobat ^
22:29 RotomPoison so im just going to remove the sets then
22:29 killerkingler and the team it was on sucked
22:30 HypnoEmpire okat RotomPoison
22:30 RotomPoison and mention in oo
22:30 LightningLuxray Just have Specs / Double Dance / (maybe) Scarf
22:30 LightningLuxray That's all it really needs
22:30 killerkingler scarf is a big maybe imo
22:30 LightningLuxray Yeah
22:30 LightningLuxray I've never used it
22:30 killerkingler i have
22:30 LightningLuxray So... I have no imput 0_0
22:30 killerkingler its meh
22:30 LightningLuxray Yeah
22:30 CoolStoryBrobat I still say mixed Download P-Z in OO
22:30 HypnoEmpire Scarf works pretty well imo
22:30 LightningLuxray Normal-STAB is meh in general
22:30 killerkingler outsped by so many common scarfers
22:30 CoolStoryBrobat Cause +1 Double-Edge will put Florges in a hospital
22:31 killerkingler tru
22:31 killerkingler unless your real and run Pdef florges
22:31 CoolStoryBrobat It still hurts
22:31 RotomPoison what about coverage moves on specs and scarf
22:31 killerkingler dark pulse
22:31 killerkingler filler filler
22:31 killerkingler boltbeam?
22:31 CoolStoryBrobat +1 4 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Florges: 281-333 (78 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
22:32 HypnoEmpire Bolt Beam on Specs and Scarf sets
22:32 RotomPoison i guess just seems like it could do better
22:32 CoolStoryBrobat Coverage moves on Specs and Scarf sets, basically should be Trick and whatever your team needs to hit
22:32 CoolStoryBrobat Thunderbolt preferably in my opinion
22:32 killerkingler ^^
22:32 killerkingler what he said
22:32 LightningLuxray Tri Attack/Dark Pulse/Trick/w/e
22:32 RotomPoison does that even 2hko suicune
22:32 LightningLuxray Probably Tbolt
22:33 killerkingler i forgot pz gets trick
22:33 LightningLuxray On Specs I'd bet
22:33 SwampLink how do you get +1 and adaptability
22:33 LightningLuxray Who fuckin knows about Scarf tho
22:33 SwampLink lol
22:33 *** Magcargo2 joined #xyuu
22:33 RotomPoison ill leave scarf for now
22:33 LightningLuxray Yeah see what QC says

QC?

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

Alright, so I wanted this guy and I got a lot to say.

Choice Scarf set is underwhelming and lame and outclassed so erase it. I think you can combine all the 3 boosting Nasty Plot and Agility sets into one and items to consider is Lum Berry, Life Orb and Focus Sash for it. Shadow Ball is superior to Dark Pulse in terms of neutral coverage and it's especially necessary for the Specs set. As for counters, faster sweepers and strong priority such as Mienshao and Heracross give the Z a run for its money. Also AV Snorlax gets a special mention as counter for eating up anything he throws and KOing it back.

 

[RotomPoison]

LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts

Choice Scarf set is underwhelming and lame and outclassed so erase it.

Well I partially agree but can you show me a concrete example of it being outclassed before it is moved to OO. It's already (going to be) the last set

I think you can combine all the 3 boosting Nasty Plot and Agility sets into one

No. All are played differently and the decision for them to stay or go will be based on if the coverage is in any common situation more important than the versatility.

items to consider is Lum Berry, Life Orb and Focus Sash for it.

Lum and LO are obviously good but Sash is just asking to be revenged by any form of priority

Shadow Ball is superior to Dark Pulse in terms of neutral coverage and it's especially necessary for the Specs set.

No. Dark and Ghost have the exact same coverage outside Dark being weak against Fighting which is irrelevant as Cobalion is 2HKOd by Tri Attack. If it's "not especially necessary" please prove it

As for counters, faster sweepers and strong priority such as Mienshao and Heracross give the Z a run for its money.

Shao is a check at best as it can RK of it hasn't used Agility. Heracross does not outspeed unboosted NP, Scarf, Specs (assuming Timid)

Also AV Snorlax gets a special mention as counter for eating up anything he throws and KOing it back.

Added to C+C

---

Other comments about the comments

While I obviously do not mind constructive criticizm I feel like the tone of your post was insulting, making it sound like you are rudely demanding rather than suggesting, and that you "know everything" without a better way to word it. Just read the IRC logs for info on Scarf/pure boosting sets.