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Prankster

There is also a problem with extremespeeders (lucario and Dragonite). Do any of the mischievious heart pokemon learn counter?
 
Well, it wouldn't have to be a mischievious heart pokemon, neccesarily. It just needs to be able to work on an assist team.

But if you want something with mischevious heart anyway, Sableye would be able to burn one after switching in on an ES though.
 
Admiral_Korski said:
Alright good point. I've updated the OP. The thing with Volbeat, Illumise, etc. is that, since all MH users have terrible defenses, it's hard to switch them in, especially this generation, so I wouldn't get too overexcited about most of these guys. What makes Erufuun so appealing, in my opinion, is its Speed. Erufuun can not only Encore fast set-uppers with priority (like Infernape) on top of set-uppers without priority, but it can also switch in very reliably on other MH users (Volbeat, Illumise, e.g.) and shut them down completely.
Click to expand...

Volbeat can lead effectively with Mischievous Heart, though. Illumise is pretty much strictly inferior because Growth is still *meh* while Tail Glow is obscenely good.
 
Hmmm since Dragon Tail is unaffected by Taunt I can see it being a very common move on lead pokemon. I am going to assume that MH leads will be the standard so the "anti-leads" will be regular pokemon with attacking moves + dragon tail or roar. Here is an example of a pokemon who I think will see an increase in usage in gen5 as a lead-Antilead hybrid, Steelix.

Steelix
Ability Sturdy
Item Leftovers
EVs: 252HP, 252 SPdef, 4 atk or 252hp, 252 atk, 4 SPdef (steelix is tied for the 2nd highest defense in the game, he shouldn't need any more points in defense)
any nature that is not + Special attack or + Speed will work
Dragon Tail
STEALTH ROCK
Knock Down
Earthquake
You want to taunt or substitute up? NOPE! Dragon Tail to the face and you have to send someone else out. Oh you are using some guy who is flying or levitating? Knock Down! Congratulations, you are now grounded and are about to get an Earthquaked! Whats this? My taunt has ended, you say? Cool, now its time for some Stealth Rock! But wait!?!?! they sent their MH guy back out! Its ok! I can dragon tail them out again!
Essentially, Steelix gets taunted, dragon tails them out, preventing any set up. Survives long enough for taunt to go away, stealth rocks up. Think Swampert but legal and can roar without having to worry about taunt.

Other moves that might be cool for Steelix are:
Psyche Up and Taunt
 
Substitute blocks the phazing effect of Dragon Tail. Knock Down is an unstabbed 50 power move which can then be Encored and set up on. Also, Erufuun resists EQ so regardless it can just SubSeed you.

Yeah, not a very good "Mischievous Heart counter".
 
Counters in my opinion would be:

Ice Shard Weaville is pretty much the bane of eruufuun and many Mischievous Heart pokemon like Volbeat and the others.

HG/SS pokemon with Magic Coat as they are unpredictably have access to it and can switch in and bounce back any phasing or status you send its way (bar Assist-Dragon Tail if it works). also a well timed DW-Espeon switch in, possibly if used correctly.

Extremespeed users such as Lucario and Arcanine can bother alot of Mischievous Heart users, unless they boost their DEF evs specifically.

For the Assist-Dagon Tail theorymon thats been going around, you can switch the mummy pokemon in on it after it uses the attack to change his ability.

those are some ideas
 
PJ_Graphix said:
Counters in my opinion would be:

Ice Shard Weaville is pretty much the bane of eruufuun and many Mischievous Heart pokemon like Volbeat and the others.

HG/SS pokemon with Magic Coat as they are unpredictably have access to it and can switch in and bounce back any phasing or status you send its way (bar Assist-Dragon Tail if it works). also a well timed DW-Espeon switch in, possibly if used correctly.

Extremespeed users such as Lucario and Arcanine can bother alot of Mischievous Heart users, unless they boost their DEF evs specifically.

For the Assist-Dagon Tail theorymon thats been going around, you can switch the mummy pokemon in on it after it uses the attack to change his ability.

those are some ideas
Click to expand...

Assist-Dragon Tail strategies were proven to be false, I'm pretty sure. Erufuun can Cotton Guard to boost his Defense 3 stages, so that helps with Priority a bit. Espeon still laughs at him though.
 
There's also U-turn. It hits most of the MH Pokemon atleast nuetrally and can easily break Erufuun's Substitute. Scarf Randorosu, Flygon, and Garchomp can also work well against Voltolos because they're immune to Thunder Wave and can KO it with Stone Edge. Torment can be a problem for them, since they'd Struggle every other turn, but they will still KO Voltolos and can always switch out afterwards.
 
Darkamber8828 said:
Not if they get Stun Spored/Encored/Taunted.

Conclusion: Espeon will be OU just to fuck with this thing.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Herbivore block Stun Spore? Encore and Taunt won't do anything if you just attack it. Granted, the Herbivore Pokemon probably won't see much use in OU so Erufuun doesn't have to worry too much about them. I don't think Espeon will be the best counter for Erufuun since it often runs U-turn and outspeeds Espeon so it can hit it pretty hard and switch to a counter even its Taunt gets reflected.
 
Anything that can switch on an Encore, Taunt or something similar, has priority and can OHKO it or break its Substitute in one hit is a pretty good counter, switching a bit also works. Grass types to take the Leech Seed do well as well. Mirror Coat. There is no hard counter to it but there are many things you can do against it.
 
Good point.

Still, Encore-->switch means Erufuun lives another day, though, so it can come in and try again once your Herbivore pokemon is dead.

Anything that can switch on an Encore, Taunt or something similar, has priority and can OHKO it or break its Substitute in one hit is a pretty good counter, switching a bit also works. Grass types to take the Leech Seed do well as well. Mirror Coat. There is no hard counter to it but there are many things you can do against it.
Click to expand...

Priority Sub-->proceed to do something with the switch-in means it can do something to anything without Magic Mirror. It's only weak to Ice Shard, and Ice Shard is pretty weak.

Trainer switched in Weavile
Erufuun used Substitute
Weavile used a move.
Super effective, sub fades.
Erufuun used Stun Spore.
Weavile is crippled and now sucks even worse than before.
Cue switch to, say, Doryuuzu.
Weavile used Ice Shard.

Mirror Coat is useless. Perhaps you meant Magic Coat?
 
Darkamber8828 said:
Encore-->switch means Erufuun lives another day, though, so it can come in and try again once your Herbivore pokemon is dead.
Click to expand...
Imagine the turn order for that.

If you Encore as they switch into an Herbivore OR due to MH, Encore again before they even get to do anything, Encore will fail.

If you Encore after they attack, there's no guarantee you'll even live that attack, LIKE A MEGAHORN, which would smash your sub and not bother it once your sub is down.

DDRMaster said:
Granted, the Herbivore Pokemon probably won't see much use in OU so Erufuun doesn't have to worry too much about them.
Click to expand...

While I shouldn't say too much on Herbivore as it is an inappropriate place to discuss it, I expect its use to be high in OU as long as Jaroda and Erufuun is OU.
 
...Let me fix that.

Trainer switched in Deer.
Erufuun used Substitute
Deer used a move.
Sub fades.
Erufuun used Substitute.
Deer used move.
Sub fades.
Erfuun used Encore.

Yeah.
 
Darkamber8828 said:
...Let me fix that.

Trainer switched in Deer.

Erufuun used Substitute
Deer used a move.
Sub fades.

Erufuun used Substitute.
Deer used move.
Sub fades.

Erfuun used Encore.

Yeah.
Click to expand...
Deer used the same move that broke Sub on the same turn you spent Encoring it instead of switching out.
SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Uh oh, I don't think so.

Then let's look at the situation as if it wasn't a revenge switch in.

Trainer sends in deer.
Erufuun subs.

Erufuun used ??? <-- What is it supposed to use? Stun Spore = activate Herbivore, Encore will fail, Taunt probably would stop it from buffing, not like it would need to to trump Erufuun.
Deer used Megahorn.
Sub fades.

Erufuun used ENCORE? WHUT?
Deer STILL uses Megahorn.
Erufuun fainted.
 
...ffffffuuuuuu

cobaph said:
Deer used the same move that broke Sub on the same turn you spent Encoring it instead of switching out.
SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Uh oh, I don't think so.

Then let's look at the situation as if it wasn't a revenge switch in.

Trainer sends in deer.
Erufuun subs.

Erufuun used ??? <-- What is it supposed to use? Stun Spore = activate Herbivore, Encore will fail, Taunt probably would stop it from buffing, not like it would need to to trump Erufuun.
Toxic!
Deer used Megahorn.
Sub fades.

Erufuun used ENCORE? WHUT?
Deer STILL uses Megahorn.
Erufuun fainted.
Click to expand...

*Hides in corner of shame*
 
Unholy said:
You'd pretty much just be stalling, but if you lock your opponent into Megahorn, that's a free switch for you.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing how you could Encore AND switch out unless you had Escape Button in the case you survive a hit.

There's no room for you to Encore it before it Megahorns. On the switch in, Encore will fail. Thanks to MH, you'll Encore before it Megahorns, which would break your sub meaning you will fail. And if you Encore AFTER it uses Megahorn, meaning you still have no sub out, YOU'RE EATING THAT MEGAHORN that you just Encored.
 
I love how the mighty Baffuron will now get the glory he deserves with his ability to slaughter all the irritating Erufuun that are bound to be everywhere with herbivore. I think I'll be including Afro Bull in my first few teams to take advantage of this thing.

Mischievous Heart is easily the best new Ability Gen V has introduced, along with Magic Mirror. (Perhaps it should be Broken Heart and Broken Mirror?) :I I think Extremespeed users, especially sweepers, will be looked upon even more favorably now thanks to it's +2 Priority. Man, Lucario is even better now, with E-Speed's boost, Justice Heart, and Nasty Plot. It should be dangerous whether no matter which route it goes.
 
feint also outspeeds it and can hit even without protect now while being more widespread, but is also very weak with its 30 base power now, meaning you probably still wouldnt score a kill unless it was weakened
 
Even though the Pokemon who have Mischievous Heart have their share of weaknesses as well, I think I can easily say this is the best ability introduced in the 5th gen, and perhaps the best ability out of any ability thus far.
 
Magic Mirror espeon has been an absolute godsend against erefuun and other mischievous heart users - as well as shutting down practically any non-offensive lead (the joy of deflecting stealth rocks to your opponent's side off a Deoxys-S is simply the best). With calm mind and baton pass, he can set up easily enough and pass off to, well, anyone (or alternatively he can just stay in and use his fantastic 130 SpA).
 
My favorite thing about Mischievous Heart though is that Sableye, one of my favorite Pokemon of all time, finally gets a good ability (good riddance keen eye and stall ;p ). Not just a good one, though, but the most overpowered ability of the fifth generation, along with Magic Mirror. (Maybe they should be called Broken Heart and Broken Mirror?) :I Sableye is also one of the best users of Mischievous Heart, having access to fantastic mischievous moves like Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Trick, Calm Mind, Recover, and the Weather moves. Here's an interesting set I thought of that may or may not be slightly gimmicky.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Bold - 252 HP / 196 Defense / 56 Sp.def ?
Calm Mind
Recover
Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball

Come in for free on one of Sableyes three immunities and use Priority Calm Mind to tank the special hit while using priority WoW to cripple physical attackers. Sableye can abuse priority Recover to get in more boosts and then recover a turn later than most defensive Pokemon due to them being slower and having to predict when to recover. Either of you're STABS provide good nuetral coverage, but with new 4x resistors and Justice Heart Pokemon, Dark STAB isn't quite as good, so Shadow Ball is an option if you have a way to remove normal-types or want to put HP fighting in the set somewhere. As an alternative to the third slot, you could set up reflect and run max def bold or pass Sableye an iron defense boost, then replace Will-O-Wisp for Taunt so you can prevent foes from hitting you with Toxic or setting up alongside you.

I'm 99% sure Night Shade doesn't get priority, but if it did, that would be amazing. Sableye could also be the perfect user of Destiny Bond if it had it. Maybe it'll get it as a unique move from the Dream World or from the third version Tutors perhaps?
 
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