Announcement Pre-OMPL XIV Thread

[Chessking]

With one month until OMPL signups are slated to go up, it is everyone's favourite time of the year to discuss everything OMPL related.

Based on last year's post-tour survey as well as other feedback, the staff team will be making some adjustments and are opening discussion on some topics.

As refreshers, this is last year's admin thread. We will be adopting all the rules from last year, with the following rule additions:
> Alt rule (you must play on an account voiced on SmogTours).
> Games should all be played on SmogTours, if it is absolutely not possible and the game is played on Main, the game must be made public immediately.
> Replays are not to be unlisted.
Failure to follow these rules will be met with infractions. In addition, games should be linked in the #tournaments channel of the Other Metagames Discord server.

Topics not up for discussion: number of teams and tiers (8 each), retains, franchises, trades, 3rd manager.

The main topic of discussion is the tier lineup. The tiers last year consisted of AAA / AAA / BH / MnM / STAB / GG / PiC / Bo3 (BH MnM GG). Based on survey feedback, we are primarily looking at the 2nd AAA slot, followed by Bo3. Some guidelines to follow:
> 5 slots are locked to the circuit tiers (AAA / BH / MnM / STAB / GG).
> If you dislike an existing slot, suggest an alternative (or support an existing proposal), not doing so is not constructive.
> Only proper OMs are on the table.

Should the number of distinct tiers in the lineup change, we would also need to adjust our current tiebreaker system.
We are also open to discussion regarding:
> Budget and manager selfbuy prices.
> Anything related to OMFL, such as format and rulings.
> Any other special rulings people want.

Lastly, UT is hosting this iteration of OMPL, but we're looking for more hosts! Reach out if interested!

This thread will be open for at least 1 week.

 

[Chessking]

Obligatory this is my own opinion disclaimer

Tier Lineup: I found that last year's lineup worked pretty well given the options available to us, and I don't think those options have particularly changed this year. I would be favourable to change AAA2 to some alternative, only because I think a AAA/BH/MnM Bo3 is a better option for the Bo3 slot (that I think should stay) as it is clearly the largest 3 metagames we offer and avoids any controversy between the similarly sized STAB and GG. However I personally don't see any alternative as being better:
We can use OMCL numbers. Our biggest and only ladderable current gen tier that is not featured is Shared Power, which has respectable ladder plays, but its performance in CL was not great, with very limited number of mains signing up and very few games actually played. The most played current gen CL tiers (matches not games) were Camomons Formemons and Inheritance all at 20. From my own pov these are all *reasonably* balanced and enjoyable tiers, and unlike SP they did have more of a playerbase (Forme less so but its similarity with other tiers is easier to transition). The main issues are that Inheritance was removed partially because of not having enough playerbase (so having more than SP is like something but not enough, and issue certainly hasn't gotten better for Inh case), and lack of ladder. I'm specifically not counting PiC for this because that tier has long been exceptionally well-received and has a unique pool of pretty dedicated players. Other than these CG tiers, there is ORAS PH which had 21 matches and an active ladder (no stats yet but it should be very high counts), but that tier obviously has its debates about competitiveness and top end players, to which I wouldn't replace AAA2 with.

Tiebreak: No comment since I don't have a replacement suggestion so I don't want to think about it right now. If we do end up replacing AAA2 with another OM to have 8 distinct slots we could always refer back to OMPL XII's system, though the random select 3 out 4 is not the nicest to look at.

Budget: There has been mentions of OMPL having a lower than standard budget (10k x min size) but I would like to see it remain as is. Having budget remain constant makes it easy to refer to previous years for price references and there hasn't been any issues.

Self-Buy: Last year we had 13.5k per. Due to manager signups usually being an issue can't have it too high but would consider adopting what we had for OMCL and have a more expensive 2nd buy (CL had 15k + 20k out of 120k budget), so maybe something like 13-13.5 first and 16-16.5 second.

OMFL: There has been several discussions on discord on FL rulings and the most frequently brought up topic was eligibility. I support the idea of FL being a tour for less known players to make names for future PL iterations, and so I support the proposal of having the eligibility requirement of being purchasable in the OMPL auction (simply use the same signups as well to avoid tier manipulation), and excluding all PL managers in addition to the FL managers. Greybaum has also suggested delaying the FL timing to stagger with PL, since as is it is somewhat overshadowed, and this also allows more attention for actually seeking the new talents. Our tour schedule is pretty tight with AAAPL and HPL typically following, but I think having Week 1 of OMFL be the week following Week 7 of OMPL (whether thats tiebreaks or semifinals) is accommodatable and with the reduced games from PL should be enough to increase interest.

Other Special Rulings: I have two, somewhat related proposals:

Deadgames: No one likes deadgames, ideally we should flat out disallow any meaningful deadgames (especially pre Week 7) but if its not popular (since its not an official rule either) we should discourage by having games played be a tiebreaker for playoffs, after differential.

Bo3 play all games: Current system of Bo3 can allow for early ends with 2-0 results. I think this is lame especially when the players almost certainly already prepped the third tier and allocated time. I suggest having all games played be a requirement. To avoid players just reusing or loading random teams because game is irrelevant we can make the game relevant by having the Bo3 result also be a playoff tiebreak, after differential (the order with the above deadgame thing is up to discussion). This does place slightly more weight on the Bo3 slot but the slot has traditionally been the heaviest anyways w.r.t. players, and I think as spectators we would like to see more games between the general top players of the community.

 

[Clas]

Will give my own thoughts later but one thing caught my eye.

Bo3 play all games: Current system of Bo3 can allow for early ends with 2-0 results. I think this is lame especially when the players almost certainly already prepped the third tier and allocated time. I suggest having all games played be a requirement. To avoid players just reusing or loading random teams because game is irrelevant we can make the game relevant by having the Bo3 result also be a playoff tiebreak, after differential (the order with the above deadgame thing is up to discussion). This does place slightly more weight on the Bo3 slot but the slot has traditionally been the heaviest anyways w.r.t. players, and I think as spectators we would like to see more games between the general top players of the community.

This should not be a forced rule, end of story. We can definitely push to gentleman this but it should not be a direct requirement to play every game. Players should obviously be putting time into each and every build they make, but this is the same for solo tours and no-one expects it there, partially for the reason of respecting people's time. Sometimes we have to schedule awkwardly or we just don't want to play for ages and ages (especially considering BH is not a fast-paced tier and alone can take an hour per game, and that is 100% not leaving Bo3 pool). If players want to do all 3 games then they should probably agree to it beforehand, but making it a rule is ridiculous and logistically unenforceable without equally ridiculous results coming of said rule.

There's also the effect that knowing a series is going to Game 3 has. A 2-0 is noteworthy because it is a swift victory/defeat and that knowledge has its allure, much alike how a Game 3 is hype because the set is close - or at least seems that way 90% of the time. What isn't is seeing Game 3 and knowing it doesn't matter. That element of "Game 3 hype" is especially attractive, and having a forced Game 3 removes that hype. When gentlemanned Game 3s happen, they're hype for a different reason entirely, and forcing their commonness kills off the specialty of them.

 

[Greybaum]

obligatory greybaum opinion post.

format: two aaa slots felt like a cuppa hot chocolate on a cool winters morning. keep it in. the only slot that felt kinda questionable was bo3 but that might be because im biased and i don't really like any of the 3 tiers in it right now. for replacements i think there are two viable options, one is boring one is epic you can decide which is which but neither are significantly better so i wouldn't mind keeping the status quo.

replacement 1- second balanced hackmons slot. despite what some people would have you believe every bo3 player was basically a forced bh slot because non-mainers either can't or simply dont want to pick it up. unfortunately it's also one of the most balanced OMs AND it's the only tier that can compete with AAA when it comes to yapping/forming building cores which is great for this kind of tour. we should not entertain adding any of the other hackmons tiers though.
2- abc. this tier was fire to watch and easy to contribute to. it's the only omcl tier i would be interested in seeing replace bo3 and i feel very qualified to say that as i am the statistical #1 greatest player of both cross evolution and formemons per the omcl sheet.

tiebreak: if we have 7 unique tiers again we keep the same system. if we have 6/8 then i think we do:
lower seed picks 1
higher seed picks 1 and strikes 1
lower seed strikes 1
higher seed strikes 1
(if 6)
lower seed picks 1
higher seed picks 1 and strikes 2
lower seed strikes 2
higher seed strikes 1
(if 8)

budget: dont care tbh it seemed fine last year

self buy: blacklist this topic until a double self buy actually wins the tournament

omfl: please ban smurfs from competing. only allow people who signed up to ompl to compete. thanks!

on deadgames: you cannot force people to play games they do not want to play. people deadgame when at least one team is out; these will just become activity wins if you try to make the games matter and people will tank the infractions if you try and force punishments. but there is a solution. we, as a community, need to embrace gaslighting. and im SERIOUS about this.
what's that? the cortisolgaleo spikers have no chance at playoffs? WRONG, yes they do. if they win the week and the cudgelmaxxing moggerpons and the oasis wonder walreins lose then they can force a tiebreak with the moggerpons to make it in.
wow, the estrogenesects sure have done well this season. in fact, they've already qualified for playoffs with two weeks to go. WRONG!!!!! they might not make playoffs if they don't keep winning actually. the other top 4 teams are close in points and the transmascquerains are catching up!!

make up statistics. lie. intentionally do the maths wrong. the only way to make people care about games that dont matter is to trick them into thinking they do.

greybaum out.

 

[dhelmise]

SPEAKING AS ME NOT AS OM STAFF

> Alt rule (you must play on an account voiced on SmogTours).
> Games should all be played on SmogTours, if it is absolutely not possible and the game is played on Main, the game must be made public immediately.
> Replays are not to be unlisted.
Failure to follow these rules will be met with infractions. In addition, games should be linked in the #tournaments channel of the Other Metagames Discord server.

i concur

The main topic of discussion is the tier lineup. The tiers last year consisted of AAA / AAA / BH / MnM / STAB / GG / PiC / Bo3 (BH MnM GG). Based on survey feedback, we are primarily looking at the 2nd AAA slot, followed by Bo3. Some guidelines to follow:
> 5 slots are locked to the circuit tiers (AAA / BH / MnM / STAB / GG).
> If you dislike an existing slot, suggest an alternative (or support an existing proposal), not doing so is not constructive.
> Only proper OMs are on the table.

Should the number of distinct tiers in the lineup change, we would also need to adjust our current tiebreaker system.

No offense to 2xAAA enthusiasts but I hate repeat tiers in OMPL, i feel like it goes against the point of OMs as a community by trying to shoehorn in one metagame as the de-facto OM. Yes we have more popular oms, but i dislike repetition.

In order of preference, I would want: 8 unique metas > 7 metas + bo3 > a repeat of literally anything

I didn't enjoy last OMPL as a spectator, i don't dislike AAA but I enjoyed previous iterations where every iteration had a distinct slot and every matchup was a guaranteed highlight match of the week.

If we look at the flex tiers picked from OMCL, a few were quite popular:
- Camomons was picked 19 times (+ 1 more in a tiebreaker)
- Formemons was picked 20 times
- Inheritance was picked 19 times (+ 1 more in a tiebreaker)
- ORAS Pure Hackmons was picked 21 times.

If we want to keep old gens metas/PH in general in OMCL exclusively, sure whatever. However, we have 4 tiers that I picked out that got played every single week at least once. They all have pretty formed playerbases, and Formemons specifically has similarities with any other Uber-centric metagame (i.e. Ubers :wow:), so they encourage a lot more variety in signups.

I don't think it needs to be one of these 4 metagames specifically, but my point is that these metas flourished in OMCL (and two of them are even former OMPL metagames themselves), so it would be nice to have some more variety in our tournament format.

We are also open to discussion regarding:
> Budget and manager selfbuy prices.
> Anything related to OMFL, such as format and rulings.
> Any other special rulings people want.

budget/manager self buy prices should both be raised IMO. feel like 100k is kinda hard to balance everything properly with, and we had 120k in OMCL. while there's less metagames to buy/prep for in here than OMCL, i still think a budget increase would be nice.

Bo3 play all games: Current system of Bo3 can allow for early ends with 2-0 results. I think this is lame especially when the players almost certainly already prepped the third tier and allocated time. I suggest having all games played be a requirement. To avoid players just reusing or loading random teams because game is irrelevant we can make the game relevant by having the Bo3 result also be a playoff tiebreak, after differential (the order with the above deadgame thing is up to discussion). This does place slightly more weight on the Bo3 slot but the slot has traditionally been the heaviest anyways w.r.t. players, and I think as spectators we would like to see more games between the general top players of the community.

i get what ur going for here but there is no way to enforce this that would not just make all bo3 players want to kill you so no

 

[aerobee]

Don't fix what isn't broken, but try to accommodate for any changes in playerbase size or interests relative to last year.

- Are OMs top-heavy enough to warrant selfbuy price increases? These metagames are generally more prep-heavy than standard tiers so going purely off of how other tiers do it is fallacious and overestimates the reward from selfbuying – up to the playerbase
- I think forcing the 3rd game to be played in Bo3 is pretty silly – what will actually happen is a fairly high portion of the time the lost player will bring something different for the giggles or otherwise nerf oneself because future weeks provide a disincentive to bring whatever meta defining bullshit you came up with. If you wanted to you could count every game of Bo3 toward differential but that may place too much stake in residual scenarios where one player is sick, has sudden obligations, etc. Would also affect my point about selfbuy prices above, since many potential self-buyers would slot into bo3

Above 2 were mostly in response to Chessking's post, my own takes and questions are below

- BH/STAB have had considerable tier shakeups recently. Afaik last year both metagames were featured in Bo3, should their relative metagame states increase their representation in this edition relative to other years?
- If people dislike 2 AAA slots, which smaller sustained community will the open spot be allocated to? Unbiased, ORAS (or maybe even USUM) PH is probably the best choice from a community presence standpoint and the pool in OMCL was acceptable – we even had multiple greater OM community people build to decent success. Of course, the meta itself is rather questionable – otherwise, what's it gonna be ?
- Is 6 slots + 2 Bo3 practical? Which metagames would be allocated to each bo3 slot?
- 2 BH slots is not practical imo, we are NOT getting 16 players playing ts outside of bo3 with a competitiveness approaching pre-2025 OMPL levels even with the current metagame's novelty factor.
- Should we make playoffs 4th-place contention tiebreak a bo1 ghosting 24v24 Custom Game?

e: STAB was in fact not in last year's bo3 whoops, point still stands

 

[HiZo]

Few things I wanna jot down while I procrastinate

As refreshers, this is last year's admin thread. We will be adopting all the rules from last year, with the following rule additions:
> Alt rule (you must play on an account voiced on SmogTours).
> Games should all be played on SmogTours, if it is absolutely not possible and the game is played on Main, the game must be made public immediately.
> Replays are not to be unlisted.
Failure to follow these rules will be met with infractions. In addition, games should be linked in the #tournaments channel of the Other Metagames Discord server

Seems a lil much, I mean I get it for those who are intentionally doing it but idt forgetting to type /publicroom on main is warranting of an infraction even if linked.

Deadgames: No one likes deadgames, ideally we should flat out disallow any meaningful deadgames (especially pre Week 7) but if its not popular (since its not an official rule either) we should discourage by having games played be a tiebreaker for playoffs, after differential.

Bo3 play all games: Current system of Bo3 can allow for early ends with 2-0 results. I think this is lame especially when the players almost certainly already prepped the third tier and allocated time. I suggest having all games played be a requirement. To avoid players just reusing or loading random teams because game is irrelevant we can make the game relevant by having the Bo3 result also be a playoff tiebreak, after differential (the order with the above deadgame thing is up to discussion). This does place slightly more weight on the Bo3 slot but the slot has traditionally been the heaviest anyways w.r.t. players, and I think as spectators we would like to see more games between the general top players of the community.

Any attempt to enforce this will see spite and malice and it'll be hard to claim intentionally throwing because the result is already set.

In order of preference, I would want: 8 unique metas > 7 metas + bo3 > a repeat of literally anything

Seconding dhelmise's order of preferences. I think AAA2 was pretty whelming and Camo is probably the CG tier with enough of a dedicated playerbase that is worth slotting over, Inh as well can work.


Regarding self buy prices: I think half of my concern with self buys is that of the manager duos that were picked for ompl 13, about half of them had someone who was also really good in the Bo3 slot (whether they actually played or not (I'm not trying to say that's a bad thing)), and BH is also a very outsider unfriendly tier, so you get some expensive prices for Bo3 slot players such Icemaster for 17k or TTTech for 20k (I'm not trying to say that's a bad thing). I know we beat the Heart Takers last OMPL being a 1 manager buyer, but I think a slight adjustment to manager prices could be an improvement. Nuking (BH from) Bo3 would equally alleviate manager self buy concerns from my end.

 

[GhastlyPixie]

I fully agree with enforcing public games as well as the alt rule. It is frustrating when you can’t verify who someone is easily and I’d rather not deal with that. Making the third Bo3 game be played is probably not a good idea but I don’t have strong feelings either way in that regard.

I’ve never been a fan of two AAA slots in OMPL and would prefer another unique tier. Personal bias makes me favor seeing inheritance return or bring Formemons to OMPL, I feel the second option would be more likely since it could potentially attract Ubers players. I’m also ok with PH becoming part of OMPL but I’m sure that would be less well received compared to other options.

As for manager self buy prices, I think a system like OMCL where the second manager self buy comes at an increased price is very valid and something I’m in favor of, however I would want a budget increase.

 

[Betticus IV]

i think camo would be the best tier to include over a second aaa slot. It’s a very competitive tier, has fleshed out resources, and can easily field non-mainers to click for the tier. AAA should be placed back in bo3. The ideal bo3 slot to me would be aaa, mnm, gg.

 

[Greybaum]

didnt think so many people would want to get rid of aaa2 but they do so i decided to look through some of the alternatives:

camomons:
- has sleep clause mod. can we bully them into removing this?
- awful to spectate; typing changes don't persist in the ui and nobody is keeping track of 24 different types
+ has just enough players to fill 8 slots. i decided to grab the omcl signups and remove people who A: did not get drafted for any tier B: have no record of ever playing camomons in the last 3 generations. this gives us 9 mainers; while a chunk of these (atha, ivar, sammy) are almost definitely going to be put in other slots there should be enough fresh meat to make up for it

mainers

anaconja
Atha
damflame
ivar
jb291
Mossy Sandwich
SammyCe123
siamoto
ghostliiike

flexers

Clas (3 teams in scout)
TKYSZL (3 teams in scout)
DragonPhoenix333 (2 teams in scout)
lepton (2 teams in scout)
O1V7O2X9O (2 teams in scout)
Clem (1 team in scout)
Quinn (1 team in scout)
RoFnA (1 team in scout)
The Hisui Region (1 team in scout)

inheritance:
- very small playerbase with very few top players, most of which i'd want to slot elsewhere
- metagame has staled. there have been no tiering changes since november 2024 and omcl i usage stats are virtually identical to those of ompl xii albeit at a smaller scale (note these usage stats are flawed as they pull from nicknames).
+ it's been in ompl before. very safe pick.

formemons:
+ might bring ubers players over
- might bring ubers players over
= jokes aside this is another very safe pick like inheritance. it's easy to get into (because it's basically just ubers on crack) but i don't imagine there are many people clamoring for its inclusion and i can't really think of a reason we'd want it over something like aaa2 except just for the novelty of having something different which wears off after w2.

alphabet cup:
- not very balanced; relatively new to the tournament scene and full of YouTube Thumbnail sets "WE GAVE V-CREATE TO VOLCANION :O"
+ extremely easy to pick up
+ very funny
ok so it's definitely too early for alphabet cup but i see a lot of genuine potential in it. the mechanics aren't as inherently silly as something like shared power and you can pretty much put any ou player in with no explanation more than "toxapex can teleport and primarina can boomburst" and they'll figure it out. ompl probably isnt the best place for this but give it a few weeks and this can be a balanced metagame.

pure hackmons gen 6:
- shadow tag limits a lot of interactive counterplay which leads to games often being very linear and not particularly interesting to watch
- by definition it cannot be balanced via tiering
+ easily the most largest playerbase, little to no crossover with existing playerbases

my personal preference:
keep aaa2 > alphabet cup > camomons > formemons > eat a whole raw potato > inheritance > pure hackmons gen 6

 

[a fairy]

IDK if I'm returning to manage yet but: Please have the budget be minplayers*10k. I don't understand why the budget is so much lower than the standard, and it was a huge pain to adjust to the budget difference both in prep and auction. Having a reduced budget seriously kneecaps the ability to get meaningfully good substitutes and reduces the amount of players in OMPL for no good reason. Changing this is an improvement to the tour, in line with the way basically every other team tour runs, and I'd really recommend it.

 

[Osake]

CAMO IN OMPL ?!

 

[pannu]

armchair post bc i do not plan on playing this year but changing the format that already works for 0 apparent reason other than benchwarmers "not enjoying watching it" is stupid, the people who play in tours come first and AAA is the only om where you can viably field 16 players in a tour. (bo3 is kinda a forced bh player slot so theres kinda 16 bh players asw but thats whatever). if for some reason aaa2 is removed put it back in bo3 over bh as the most popular om deserves the most representation, its not favourtism if its earned it.

nothing other than camo is a viable replacement for aaa2 btw. ph is an inheritly uncompetetive tier and shouldnt be in a serious tournament and all of the other oms have shitter playerbases that wouldnt be more entertaining to watch than aaa2. inheritance is a dead and stale tier with incompetent leadership so thats not changing, and youre already slotting the "good" abc/forme/etc players elsewhere. while there is alot of overlap of other tiers and camo, i think thats more of a positive thing here as having those on your team to help out a newer face to the tier (this is not an unheard of strategy in ompl btw, its done all the time) makes drafting for the tier x100 times easier while having "unique" players that you wouldnt slot elsewhere (mossy, jbnumbers, smallsmallrose, tnm). Camo deserves to be in ompl again

IDK if I'm returning to manage yet but: Please have the budget be minplayers*10k. I don't understand why the budget is so much lower than the standard, and it was a huge pain to adjust to the budget difference both in prep and auction. Having a reduced budget seriously kneecaps the ability to get meaningfully good substitutes and reduces the amount of players in OMPL for no good reason. Changing this is an improvement to the tour, in line with the way basically every other team tour runs, and I'd really recommend it.

0 reason to not implement this even if ms fairy doesnt show up to manage again

im logging out again have fun everyone rooting for virizzions

 

[Iguana]

Hi! I don't have a ton to contribute to this discussion, but I do want to speak in favor of ORAS PH's inclusion in OMPL. Its inclusion in OMCL provides a nice springboard for being a part of other OM tours. ORAS is certainly the Gen with the most robust Pure Hackmons playerbase, and while I'm partial as a Pure Hackmons staff member (and not an OM staff member), I believe it's important to bridge the gaps between communities under the overall OM umbrella. We saw a nice synergy between Hackmons players of all sorts in Hackmons PL, and it would be ideal to foster that growth in a significant team tour like OMPL.

 

[matte]

armchair post bc i do not plan on playing this year but changing the format that already works for 0 apparent reason other than benchwarmers "not enjoying watching it" is stupid, the people who play in tours come first and AAA is the only om where you can viably field 16 players in a tour. (bo3 is kinda a forced bh player slot so theres kinda 16 bh players asw but thats whatever). if for some reason aaa2 is removed put it back in bo3 over bh as the most popular om deserves the most representation, its not favourtism if its earned it.

nothing other than camo is a viable replacement for aaa2 btw. ph is an inheritly uncompetetive tier and shouldnt be in a serious tournament and all of the other oms have shitter playerbases that wouldnt be more entertaining to watch than aaa2. inheritance is a dead and stale tier with incompetent leadership so thats not changing, and youre already slotting the "good" abc/forme/etc players elsewhere. while there is alot of overlap of other tiers and camo, i think thats more of a positive thing here as having those on your team to help out a newer face to the tier (this is not an unheard of strategy in ompl btw, its done all the time) makes drafting for the tier x100 times easier while having "unique" players that you wouldnt slot elsewhere (mossy, jbnumbers, smallsmallrose, tnm). Camo deserves to be in ompl again

I agree with what pannu said, keep aaa2 please

 

[UT]

Have we considered an OMM?

PokeAAA just hit 124,000 plays last month which is bonkers for this late in a gen. Miss Crisis swears it’s a balanced and fun meta, and OMMs have been a part of our community for decades and finally broke out in to their own subforum.

If there is no clear replacement meta, I vote we run it back with last year’s tiers as they were still competitive and worked well enough, but if there’s an OMM that’s in good enough shape to be featured that’d be heat.

 

[aim]

Just want to say that pokebilitiesaaa was one of the most fun ladders/oms of all time in SV. For myself and my viewers. Besides aaa it is the om i have played/streamed the most and it’s popularity/number of games on the ladder would prove this is the same for others too. Usually oms go hard in the beginning of the month and then they tend to have little to no games by the end but i was laddering the whole month finding games no problem at all parts of the ladder. I feel like it would be a cool meta to add to the tour and even its own permaladder. To quote a viewer - shoutout to these oms for making the wait for champions a lot less painful

 

[aim]

lol sniped

 

[UT]

This was not coordinated I swear

 

[HiZo]

Have we considered an OMM?

PokeAAA just hit 124,000 plays last month which is bonkers for this late in a gen. Miss Crisis swears it’s a balanced and fun meta, and OMMs have been a part of our community for decades and finally broke out in to their own subforum.

If there is no clear replacement meta, I vote we run it back with last year’s tiers as they were still competitive and worked well enough, but if there’s an OMM that’s in good enough shape to be featured that’d be heat.

Just want to say that pokebilitiesaaa was one of the most fun ladders/oms of all time in SV. For myself and my viewers. Besides aaa it is the om i have played/streamed the most and it’s popularity/number of games on the ladder would prove this is the same for others too. Usually oms go hard in the beginning of the month and then they tend to have little to no games by the end but i was laddering the whole month finding games no problem at all parts of the ladder. I feel like it would be a cool meta to add to the tour and even its own permaladder. To quote a viewer - shoutout to these oms for making the wait for champions a lot less painful

My only concern is that its double dipping with OMMPL (sign up for it btw (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ommpl-i-player-signups-use-the-form-to-sign-up-5000-likes-prize.3779175/)), which also features PokeAAA, would rather see the high level play there than in here which would stick out more than Gen 6 Pure Hackmons

 

[MAMP]

no shade to ommpl but ompl is the big dog here and its needs should take priority: if pokebilities aaa is the hypest/most popular/most competitive choice, overlapping with ommpl should not be reason to not choose it. ompl is one of the longest running tournaments on this site, one of the very first subforum pls, and imo still the most prestigious oms tournament besides maybe circuit playoffs. we should respect that legacy by making it as good as it can be.

 

[UT]

eat a whole raw potato

Is this like a "who can eat it faster" thing or how is the winner determined

 

[The Number Man]

UNSURE IF I WILL SIGN UP BUT:

back in my day most omm ppl were at the very least aspiring OMPL participants
you could do a clause where pokeaaa is scratched if post w1 of signups there arent enuf signups
also, im obliged as former council to lobby for camo inclusion. from wat i heard (in this thread) omcl had good camo representation. + council is still aqtive
free camo and rip gen 8 (cm controversy etc.)
TNM out

 

[Chessking]

Still the obligatory this is my thoughts disclaimer

Been almost a week so I'll reply to some stuff here for formality, might be restating a lot of stuff from cord

self buy: blacklist this topic until a double self buy actually wins the tournament

Technically double self buy won in XI. Looking at recent results more it appears single self buy is somehow the best performing of the 3 with the double buy just behind. I think that HiZo makes a fair point regarding the prices being format influenced (though Bo3 having BH last year was a pretty big new change and through circuit I think our pool should be notably better this time if people sign up). I think a reasonable compromise could be upping general manager self-buy price from 13.5 to 14 or 14.5. This is ofc assuming that we will still have enough reasonable manager signups, mainly from likes of Hizo last year as the Bo3 mains aren't impacted because this price is still underpay compared to auction.

budget/manager self buy prices should both be raised IMO. feel like 100k is kinda hard to balance everything properly with, and we had 120k in OMCL. while there's less metagames to buy/prep for in here than OMCL, i still think a budget increase would be nice.

IDK if I'm returning to manage yet but: Please have the budget be minplayers*10k. I don't understand why the budget is so much lower than the standard, and it was a huge pain to adjust to the budget difference both in prep and auction. Having a reduced budget seriously kneecaps the ability to get meaningfully good substitutes and reduces the amount of players in OMPL for no good reason. Changing this is an improvement to the tour, in line with the way basically every other team tour runs, and I'd really recommend it.

Mentioned my opinion in the prior post but didnt elaborate too much. I think maintaining budget would be ideal because matching prior OMPL prices is very very convenient for both returning managers and new managers, since it provides a well established baseline, and is imo way more important than matching like what other tours have done. I have not managed outside of OMs but I would imagine new managers can just hit up last year's prices and figure stuff out + we usually run like double digit number of moccs that vaguely converge to the general price ranges. Budget increase only affects the relative value of the min bid 3ks anyways since everything else is scalable (yes can scale past prices too but thats way more annoying).

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On tier lineup:
I like Bo3, and even if I didn't like Bo3 I agree with the "remove dupe slots before anything else" sentiment, so if a tier were to be replaced it should be AAA and then Bo3 gets AAA over GG.
I care less about having Bo3 be AAA BH MnM though. Still the easiest 3 to stick in there and avoids any sort of GG vs STAB talks (this doesn't actually seem to exist though), but effect isn’t major, maybe you get 2-3 AAA names that I can think of be capable of slotting which helps add to the pool, but thats kind of it, esp since GG is from what I've heard has minimal competitiveness issues.
The double AAA slots last OMPL had competitive pool with at worst a capable clicker backed up by a main + support for every team. All replacing tier candidates don’t have 8+ top tier active main builders so slot will be less competitive than AAA2 which mitigates this by the easily findable 8 top mains + more. AAA2 also is very safe, where there should be minimal issues from presumed playerbase that did not sign up (eg SP in OMCL)

The general sentiment does seem to favour changing the slot though, though at the same time there is disagreement over what it should be (to the point where if measured as "what should slot 8 be" instead of "what should replace AAA2 in slot 8" then AAA2 probably wins). In general I agree with like most of Greybaum's post but to not look lazy I'll add some comments in the same format because it avoids text walls

Camo
+ least criticisms
- Greybaum points (SCM, viewing experience)
I would like to see posts here from any active mains about the tier though pinging council and some talkative mains ive seen Smallsmallrose Karl Dude Guy ghostlike SammyCe123 Siamato Mossy Sandwich, also doubles as an interest gauge because grey's list depends on actual signups.

Inh
- Greybaum points
For elaboration
- Tier hasn’t been able to progress notably since PL XI
- Lacks mains, of Inh players in OMCL Don is the Inh main while a lot of other names are highly competed to be slotted elsewhere. Even with people who didn’t sign up the number is still well below 8 and ideally you have 10+ to feel safer
Also pinging relevant people here for posts of thoughts Don Vascus Dunfan CoolTrainerGary Schpoonman

Forme
= very neutral opinions
+ Unlikely to have players issues because resemblance to Ubers tiers
- No mains, if we want clicker tier AAA2 does it but better

PH
+ big playerbase and high ladder activity, useful for getting into the tier
- untierable, not a flawless argument, but still concerning
- eg hax, which can be mitigated through skill but exists and arguably people are not even abusing it
- large gap in players despite playerbase, especially with known strong players generally reluctant to play: light on top players
- gameplay linearity, I acknowledge there are plenty of viable if not strong strategies out there, but needs to be a certain level for those like innovations and I did not very see that from OMCL

PokeAAA (and mashups in general)
- colliding with OMMPL
I think we have a way more appropriate place to introduce incorporation of OMMs with general OMs, which is OMCL. We obviously arent there yet on discussing the format for that but there were floated ideas of expanding OMCL for next iteration and one immediate possibility is adding a OMM pick per team or something. OMCLs format is very flexible for experimenting with such inclusions and we can evaluate success using it just like how the other tiers are proposed due to their general success in OMCL.

replacement 1- second balanced hackmons slot. despite what some people would have you believe every bo3 player was basically a forced bh slot because non-mainers either can't or simply dont want to pick it up. unfortunately it's also one of the most balanced OMs AND it's the only tier that can compete with AAA when it comes to yapping/forming building cores which is great for this kind of tour. we should not entertain adding any of the other hackmons tiers though.

Despite being a big biased BH person don't do this and its not just because I like Bo3. While Grey is correct in that basically every Bo3 player had to be strong in BH replacing Bo3 with BH2 definitely does not mean the players in that slot remain the same because theres like 2 other tiers they can slot into (QT Ivar Tech damflame is just 4/8+). BH is also not AAA and the clicker + support interaction wont be nearly interesting here and you can expect plenty of recycling which I'm sure no one wants to see.

8th slot for me AAA2 > Camo if mains will sign up > Forme > everything else

 

[Fc]

inverse clears all other slots that could be replacing aaa2.

increase budget to 10k per player like every other tour especially since there are no retains so changing budget doesn't matter (retains being added would be the only good change here)

real slot to replace aaa2 is probably nothing since being an omm or not having a permaladder is kinda bad for ompl imo, if you aren't in the circuit literally anywhere else it feels hard to justify the inclusion. pic gets a pass just bc it's the only doubles slot