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Sports Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread

Good lord that's depressing. People say that Triple H is notorious for not putting over people cleanly, but John Cena is basically Triple H but 100x worse. Triple H didn't lose often, but he did so often enough that he didn't seem like a total douche and he even lost cleanly several times. Hell, he's even tapped out cleanly, which is something that Cena hasn't done at all since winning the WWE Championship back in 2005. The worst part is that John Cena's not even entertaining half the time. I'll admit that he has his moments, but the face of the company should be consistently entertaining. And the face of the company should have consistently good matches. Not just having good matches with whoever he chooses to try against.

It's sad because even when John Cena loses a match in a dirty fashion, he ends up basically destroying the person who beat him in several subsequent rematches. And of course, he'll win cleanly after kicking out of each of their finishers with ease. Then he'll get up and no-sell their moves after the match like nothing ever happened. The first 3/4 of 2012 had some of the absolute worst PPV endings, because you'd basically have a great PPV for a majority of the 3 hours, but then Cena, who didn't even have a championship for the entire year, would just magically get the main event over the WWE/World Heavyweight Championship. And the only good match he had when he was being billed over the world championship matches was the one with Brock Lesnar. Even his Money in the Bank Ladder match was crap, and so was the one against The Rock (for how much build it got).

I swear, it's sad, because this guy's actually a really good wrestler, but he just blatantly isn't trying half the time since he got to the top.
 
Bologo said:
Good lord that's depressing. People say that Triple H is notorious for not putting over people cleanly, but John Cena is basically Triple H but 100x worse. Triple H didn't lose often, but he did so often enough that he didn't seem like a total douche and he even lost cleanly several times. Hell, he's even tapped out cleanly, which is something that Cena hasn't done at all since winning the WWE Championship back in 2005. The worst part is that John Cena's not even entertaining half the time. I'll admit that he has his moments, but the face of the company should be consistently entertaining. And the face of the company should have consistently good matches. Not just having good matches with whoever he chooses to try against.

It's sad because even when John Cena loses a match in a dirty fashion, he ends up basically destroying the person who beat him in several subsequent rematches. And of course, he'll win cleanly after kicking out of each of their finishers with ease. Then he'll get up and no-sell their moves after the match like nothing ever happened. The first 3/4 of 2012 had some of the absolute worst PPV endings, because you'd basically have a great PPV for a majority of the 3 hours, but then Cena, who didn't even have a championship for the entire year, would just magically get the main event over the WWE/World Heavyweight Championship. And the only good match he had when he was being billed over the world championship matches was the one with Brock Lesnar. Even his Money in the Bank Ladder match was crap, and so was the one against The Rock (for how much build it got).

I swear, it's sad, because this guy's actually a really good wrestler, but he just blatantly isn't trying half the time since he got to the top.
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Its the opposite. He's a bad wrestler who is always trying.
 
i have lost count of how many times over the years that i've told myself "i'm done with all the hate on cena". honestly, yeah i can definitely see why the hate is there, but at some point it gets to the point where i'm just like oh ffs, man

Its easy to get tired of superhuman/supercena, etc, but Cena is still one of my favorites and i am not afraid to say that. he has a lot of redeeming qualities that a lot of people seem to look past and continue to hate just for hates sakes it seems sometimes even.

If i layed out my list of favorites in the industry, i'm sure i would get weird looks as Cena would be among a list of great names such as kurt Angle and shawn michaels and i'm sure you'd think he doesnt belong, but i can guarantee you that there is nothing you can say that would remove him from that list. In my eyes he has earned that spot over the years, and although there has been back and forths when it comes to cena and i, i still love the guy both as a wrestler and the kind of human being he is outside the ring. great guy

JonStewartHatersGonnaHate.gif
Edit: Also lets not really forget how that whole supercena crap started. John cena's passions in life arent that many. The man enjoys lifting weights and cars (not lifting them. lol), THATS IT. He has been fascinated with strength and muscle from an early age. John cena may not be the biggest guy in that locker room, but he is definitely one of the strongest, even stronger than guys "bigger" than him. he has proven that he is one of the strongest if not the strongest several times. He is also very impressive in the gym if you have seen some of the wwe superstars in the gym. I haven't seen all footage nor compared cena's numbers to others, but its not hard to see the separation.
So can you really blame the WWE for playing on the guys strengths? his strength is one of his biggest strengths and if you blame an industry that places quite a bit of value on how strong a person is to begin with, then i dont really know what i can tell you.
 
Oh, I have no problem with Cena as a person. He actually seems really cool, and he even likes anime too. I love the fact that he wanted to contribute to the cure for breast cancer, and I love the fact that grants tons of wishes with make-a-wish. In fact, before he won the WWE Championship, he was, by far, one of my favourite wrestlers on the roster. His wrestling was great before he won it, but then for some odd reason, after he got to the top, all of his matches were kind of the same (get ass kicked for 20 minutes without any real offense, get flurry of offense at the end and win, then after the match is over, no-sell the beating like nothing ever happened). I can understand playing to his strengths and such, but it shouldn't come at the expense of everyone else. He should still be able to sell a beating, considering most of the time, he takes a beating for at least 15 minutes, and then miraculously comes back to land 5 moves and win in a typical match.

That, and the only person I can think of that actually came out of a feud looking stronger after a feud with Cena was CM Punk (after MITB 2011, since that was one of the few times in recent years when Cena showcased his good wrestling skills). The reason being that when someone feuds with Cena, they might beat him in a dirty fashion, but then after that, he gets his revenge in like 5 rematches where he wins cleanly each time.

Look at what happened to Dolph Ziggler, for instance. He beat John Cena at TLC 2012 with AJ's help. Then Cena and Ziggler went on to have several rematches on RAW, none of which Dolph Ziggler won. In fact, there was a match where Ziggler landed his finisher, several match-ending moves, and even had Big E land his finisher on Cena through interference. John Cena kicked out of every single one of those, landed one AA (after doing jack-shit throughout the entire match), and Ziggler couldn't kick out. This is the kind of stuff that makes people dislike John Cena. There's nothing wrong with Cena looking strong throughout the match, but when he's essentially invalidating his opponent's entire moveset completely, and winning with one move, it just becomes hard to watch.

There's also The Nexus fiasco, where John Cena basically decimated the entire stable single-handedly. It was blatantly obvious that they just made that stable just to feed it to Cena.

Hell, they even made the very questionable decision of making Brock Lesnar lose in his first match back against John Cena.

There's also the fact that John Cena is the face of this B.A. Star campaign, yet half the time, he's the one bullying the heels for whatever reason. I'll admit that sometimes this is entertaining, but it just doesn't make any sense.

Plus, there was absolutely no reason for John Cena to be damn near every single PPV main event in 2012 when 1) he didn't have a title, and 2) many of his main events were terrible (his matches against Kane, The Rock [for how much build it got, and the build wasn't even that good], Laurinaitis, Big Show, and even his MITB were all garbage compared to the other matches on the card). It doesn't help that the buildup for all of those matches were pretty bad too.

Building on that, he's really, really bad at making his opponents look like credible threats in the buildup to their PPV matches. He spends a majority of the time in his promos smiling and making fun of his opponents, and even when he gets into brawls with them, he's still smiling and saying stupid things instead of trying to fight seriously. His feud with Kane in the buildup to their Ambulance match was a big example of this, because by the time the match happened, Kane didn't even look like a threat to Cena anymore. Even his feud with The Rock was just filled with crappy humour, instead of being a serious fight like the CM Punk vs. The Rock feud is.

I understand that the creative team books his matches to be the way they are, but I think he has more than enough power backstage to do something about his matches, and the often terrible quality of them. Not to mention, I'm sure he could lose cleanly if he wanted to, but as it's been pointed out, in what's going on 8 years of being on top, he's only lost cleanly to 6 people. Plus, the no-selling after the match is all on him. As are the promos, since I get the feeling that the top guys get a lot more leeway on their promos.

I will say though, that when he lets his opponent look good, it makes for a much better match. I particularly liked his match with Daniel Bryan on RAW a few months ago.
 
Bologo hit it spot on. And for some more random trivia,

Since his face turn in 2006, only one man has defeated Triple H clean in standard singles competition without interference or distractions.

Jeff Hardy:
- Armageddon 2007
 
While Triple H has only lost cleanly one time in a regular singles match since 2006 since turning face, he's still put a lot more people over than Cena. Not necessarily by losing to them, but he made them look really good in the ring, and he always gave his matches his all. I know we're talking about after 2006, but I just remember back during his heel run in 2002, even though he was accused of 'burying' people back then, he still made them look ridiculously good. I remember during a random episode of RAW, he was facing Tajiri in a singles match, and it really, really looked like Tajiri was going to win at several points. The same thing happened when Triple H faced The Hurricane.

Fact is, while he's only lost cleanly one time in regular singles competition since 2006, he's still lost cleanly several times in other 1-on-1 matches without any interference or distraction. By that, I mean non-regular singles matches, such as hardcore matches and such.

Off the top of head, he lost to Undertaker at WM 27 & 28 cleanly. He also lost to Sheamus at Extreme Rules 2010 pretty cleanly if I remember correctly. I think the loss against Lesnar at Summerslam was clean (though I don't remember if Heyman interfered or not). I don't remember all of them though, because I stopped watching wrestling from 2007-2010 due to no longer having the channel at the time.
 
Bologo said:
I know we're talking about after 2006, but I just remember back during his heel run in 2002, even though he was accused of 'burying' people back then, he still made them look ridiculously good.
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Except the parts where he made RVD and Booker T look terrible.
 
Bologo said:
While Triple H has only lost cleanly one time in a regular singles match since 2006 since turning face, he's still put a lot more people over than Cena. Not necessarily by losing to them, but he made them look really good in the ring, and he always gave his matches his all. I know we're talking about after 2006, but I just remember back during his heel run in 2002, even though he was accused of 'burying' people back then, he still made them look ridiculously good. I remember during a random episode of RAW, he was facing Tajiri in a singles match, and it really, really looked like Tajiri was going to win at several points. The same thing happened when Triple H faced The Hurricane.

Fact is, while he's only lost cleanly one time in regular singles competition since 2006, he's still lost cleanly several times in other 1-on-1 matches without any interference or distraction. By that, I mean non-regular singles matches, such as hardcore matches and such.

Off the top of head, he lost to Undertaker at WM 27 & 28 cleanly. He also lost to Sheamus at Extreme Rules 2010 pretty cleanly if I remember correctly. I think the loss against Lesnar at Summerslam was clean (though I don't remember if Heyman interfered or not). I don't remember all of them though, because I stopped watching wrestling from 2007-2010 due to no longer having the channel at the time.
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He lost to Sheamus after he beat him in their first match at WrestleMania. And of course he's going to lose Undertaker. Taker will never lose at Wrestlemania. Triple H has wrestled Taker at 3 different WrestleManias. Of all the wrestlers Taker has fought in the past, how is it Triple H at his age is the one that gets the closest to ending the streak? There are so many more deserving guys that could gain cred by facing the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. But Triple H just needs to be the guy, cause in his mind no one else can do the streak justice.
 
I'll admit that Triple H has a huge ego (he completely ruined CM Punk's hot summer in 2011 by shoving himself into it), but maybe I'm just biased because I really liked his heel run in 2002, despite all the politics. I do feel bad for Booker T, RVD, Randy Orton (after he lost his WHC to Triple H) and Kane (with the awful Katie Vick storyline) though, since they definitely got shafted as a result. I admittedly didn't see a whole lot of his face run though. Unfortunately, the only thing I really remember was him wrecking the Spirit Squad 2 on 5 with Shawn Michaels. That was definitely uncalled for by him, since he completely buried all 5 of them. However, I've read a bit about the 2006-2010 DX during their feud with Legacy. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Rhodes and DiBiase got a pretty huge rub from facing DX, especially since they actually went over a couple of times, and looked good even when they didn't. Also, during DX's pursuit of the unified tag team championships, the belts were actually in the main event of TLC 2009, and when they actually got the belts, guys like The Hart Dynasty got quite a rub from facing them, even if they didn't win.

I think the main reason I like Triple H a lot better than John Cena as a face though, is that Triple H just sells a lot better, to be honest. Triple H actually comes out of the match looking like he took a beating, and doesn't come out of the match like some smiling moron. He lets his opponents get in a lot of offense, while dealing a lot of his own and letting his opponent kick out of it (unless it's the pedigree most of the time). Plus, his matches and promos are all better than Cena's. That, and the build up for his feuds are much more entertaining as well. Haha, that, or maybe I just don't like Cena, who knows.

However, if there's one thing (besides the major ego) that I don't particularly like about Triple H, it's that when he's on RAW, his segments get replayed like 4 times during the show, which is overkill. And I swear, it happens every time.
 
I dont think John cena is the big unstoppable Juggernaut you are painting him out to be. I dont know about him smiling before, during and after a match and making opponents that are threats (or meant to be threats) look nothing like, well, threats, but i think i'll just agree more with this line of yours
Bologo said:
I think the main reason I like Triple H a lot better than John Cena as a face though, is that Triple H just sells a lot better, to be honest. Triple H actually comes out of the match looking like he took a beating, and doesn't come out of the match like some smiling moron. He lets his opponents get in a lot of offense, while dealing a lot of his own and letting his opponent kick out of it (unless it's the pedigree most of the time). Plus, his matches and promos are all better than Cena's. That, and the build up for his feuds are much more entertaining as well. Haha, that, or maybe I just don't like Cena, who knows.
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also although Triple H doesnt make my list of favorites (quite the exclusive list) unlike his partner Shawn Michaels, i have many great fond memories of him. love watching that guy wrestle
 
last night's cm punk vs John cena was pretty amazing.


need to start watching wrestling more. go back to my childhood days
 
I'll definitely give Cena his due right now. His team lost to The Shield cleanly at Elimination Chamber and a lot of people have had rave reviews about his match with CM Punk (though I haven't seen it yet...but I'm gonna watch RAW on the weekend). I heard he even pulled some of his older moves out of his moveset, like his sitout powerbomb and such. That gives me a least a little hope for "twice in a lifetime". If he keeps it up, he may be able to shift some of the booing to the heels instead, which is good.

And the WWE/DBZ comic was pretty awesome too.
 
The match between CM Punk and John Cena this past Monday on Raw was absolutely fantastic, I'd really love to see those to go at it again with CM Punk actually getting a clean win some day. Anyway, whatever matches are going to happen at WrestleMania, I believe none will top whatever match CM Punk will be in.
 
Taylor said:
BD_p_A_CUAApCN7.jpg


lesnar must be that scary
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Piss... running down his ass! Ugh, now we wait for WrestleMania so that Triple H may have his victory over Brock Lesnar. Batista belongs to an elite club of people who have defeated Triple H and have never had to lose back to him in the future.
 
So Paul Bearer has apparently passed away this evening at 58 years old. Rest in peace, and I hope that Undertaker and Kane make some sort of tribute to him for all the things he did for their career.
 
That shit on Triple H was actually dry ice, and it gave him second-degree burns all over. I think we can safely say he's never doing an entrance like that again, because I've heard that dry ice is extremely painful.

I agree that WrestleMania wasn't nearly as good as some of the other WrestleManias though. The RAW after WrestleMania sounds like it was very amusing because of the crowd, though I haven't actually watched it yet. I heard that Fandango's theme song was being sung by the crowd, and it got a huge amount of attention.
 
The crowd on the first Raw post-WrestleMania was amazing, you could've sworn you were watching an Attitude era Raw as far as crowd reaction went. Not all the matches were amazing spectacles but it really made some big moments of the night feel really special (I won't spoil it).
 
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