Prop 8

[Kristy Haruka]

So yeah people were arguing about this on shoddy and I personally believe that everyone should vote NO! :P

What do you guys think???

[edit] apparently proposition 8 is this (from blak blastoises post)

Proposition 8 is an initiative state constitutional amendment on the 2008 California General Election ballot, titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.[1][2] If passed, the proposition would "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California."[3] A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."[3]
The measure was originally submitted for the ballot by petitioners with the title "California Marriage Protection Act."[4] The title and summary were revised by Attorney General Jerry Brown to more "accurately reflect the measure."[5] The Superior Court of California ruled in favor of these changes, stating, "The title and summary is not false or misleading because it states that Proposition 8 would 'eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry' in California. The California Supreme Court unequivocally held that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry under the California Constitution."

 

[Hipmonlee]

I think it would help if you told us what prop 8 is and why we should vote NO!

Have a nice day.

 

[Morm]

if this thread is prop 8, I'm definately voting no!

 

[pkmn Trainer Zach]

It should be a national law that gay and lesbian couples get the same rights as heterosexual ones. If I lived in California, I would vote NO.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

Definitely no, damn ignorant people >_>.

 

[Kristy Haruka]

Yeah I agree because first of all like they should be able to live their lvies the way they wanted to and stright people shouldn't force them to marry or not marry I mean its their lives whether you like it or not.

 

[RobertM]

Gays and Lesbians should get all the rights of "normal" people and I don't care what your shitty holy book says. They're people, they're in love, and I'm sick of them being unhappy and alone because of fucking bigots.

 

[macle]

I'm still fucking confused but I think I might know what this is about...

Prop 8 is about same sex marriage and voting NO! will allow same sex marriage?

Am I on track?

 

[Olie]

Let them (homosexual couples) live together, but it cannot be called Marriage, so thus they should not be able to marry each other.
Marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a woman.

And what's with all the gay oriented threads in Cong recently?

 

[RobertM]

Let them live together, but it cannot be called Marriage.
Marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a woman.

Why can't it be between two men or two women? the love, sexual attraction, and whatnot are all there.

 

[Deck Knight]

Topic Wherein 2% of Californians will call the 51% who don't believe said whiny 2% should be able to call their serial sexual relationship just as legitimate as an actual marriage bigots.

 

[Invective]

I'm still fucking confused but I think I might know what this is about...

Prop 8 is about same sex marriage and voting NO! will allow same sex marriage?

Am I on track?

yes, prop 8 is a proposition that, if it passes, will ban gay marriages in the state of california. voting no will allow gay marriages.

i actually dont care at all, because it does not affect me directly in any way. i would be fine with it either passing or not.

EDIT:

Let them (homosexual couples) live together, but it cannot be called Marriage, so thus they should not be able to marry each other.
Marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a woman.

yeah, ive been wondering, whats to keep them from buying their own wedding rings and wearing them and saying they are married to another man/woman.
as far as i know, theres no law that prohibits impersonating a married couple, if there is please correct me on this.

 

[Ryfle]

Let them (homosexual couples) live together, but it cannot be called Marriage, so thus they should not be able to marry each other.
Marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a woman.

And what's with all the gay oriented threads in Cong recently?

The thing is that laws have nothing to do with religion so that's irrelevant.

 

[Olie]

Why can't it be between two men or two women? the love, sexual attraction, and whatnot are all there.

I'm simply speaking from the church's pov.

Gay couples are definatly free to love each other, it's all there, but they cannot reproduce with each other, thus they should not be able to marry.
They of course, can still love each other, and I do not oppose this.

Whatever, I vote yes, but don't hold me on this, I think homosexual relationships are acceptable, and are pure and filled with love most of the time... but I am sceptical about the whole marriage thing.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

Proposition 8 is an initiative state constitutional amendment on the 2008 California General Election ballot, titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.[1][2] If passed, the proposition would "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California."[3] A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."[3]
The measure was originally submitted for the ballot by petitioners with the title "California Marriage Protection Act."[4] The title and summary were revised by Attorney General Jerry Brown to more "accurately reflect the measure."[5] The Superior Court of California ruled in favor of these changes, stating, "The title and summary is not false or misleading because it states that Proposition 8 would 'eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry' in California. The California Supreme Court unequivocally held that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry under the California Constitution."

If i gived a shit about voting i would vote yes. I was raised (or brainwashed, as you want to call it) to believe that being gay is not "correct." I don't care if people want to be gay I just don't want schools to teach my children that being gay is the SAME as being straight, because to me It clearly is not. *I heard somewhere that they will do this if this proposition does not pass.
It's all a matter of oppinion. When i think about this locically (or as locically as i can), there should not really be any difference between being gay or not, but I still believe it is wrong.

 

[Ryfle]

If i gived a shit about voting i would vote yes. I was raised (or brainwashed, as you want to call it) to believe that being gay is not "correct." I don't care if people want to be gay I just don't want schools to teach my children that being gay is the SAME as being straight, because to me It clearly is not. *I heard somewhere that they will do this if this proposition does not pass.
It's all a matter of oppinion. When i think about this locically (or as locically as i can), there should not really be any difference between being gay or not, but I still believe it is wrong.

Yeah, the super intended of California schools made it a public record saying it's "absolutely not true" gay marriage will not be taught in schools. My parents are stupid like yours but I don't let their point of view affect mine.

 

[pkmn Trainer Zach]

I'm simply speaking from the church's pov.

Gay couples are definatly free to love each other, it's all there, but they cannot reproduce with each other, thus they should not be able to marry.
They of course, can still love each other, and I do not oppose this.

Whatever, I vote yes, but don't hold me on this, I think homosexual relationships are acceptable, and are pure and filled with love most of the time... but I am sceptical about the whole marriage thing.

What's there to be skeptical about? It would just mean that we all have the same freedoms as everyone else. Nothing more. And as for "they shouldn't be able to marry because they can't reproduce", that makes no sense. There are heterosexual married couples who have no children. Secondly, There many ways of acquiring children. Adoption being the main one.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

Yeah, the super intended of California schools made it a public record saying it's "absolutely not true" gay marriage will not be taught in schools. My parents are stupid like yours but I don't let their point of view affect mine.

It's good to know they wont teach that.
I wouldn't call it stupidity, i would say it's more like naive. My parents, and i assume, your parents were taught this so they think it is correct. Much like a hundred years ago most people were being taught that "Blacks" did not belong with "whites." Thanks to civil rights movements we now know that we are all the same. I would argue that the same thing will happen with this gay vs straight thing. It's all a matter of time. I think it will take longer, mainly because some people put religion before facts.

 

[RobertM]

I was raised (or brainwashed, as you want to call it) to believe that being gay is not "correct."

Being black is not correct. Being dyslexic is not correct. These things make about as much sense as what you're saying. I can't believe there are still people who think being gay is a choice.

EDIT- That post wasn't there when I said this.

 

[Olie]

What's there to be skeptical about? It would just mean that we all have the same freedoms as everyone else. Nothing more. And as for "they shouldn't be able to marry because they can't reproduce", that makes no sense. There are heterosexual married couples who have no children. Secondly, There many ways of acquiring children. Adoption being the main one.

In my opinion, (which is not necessarily the same as anyone else's), is that Marriage is reserved for Heterosexual couples as defined by my Church. Gay couples still are capable of loving each other and raising children (I do not oppose this in any way whatsoever), but I see marriage as a relationship between a Man and Woman. What is so wrong about my opinion that makes you want to bash it anyway?

I stress the word opinion.

 

[Ryfle]

It's good to know they wont teach that.
I wouldn't call it stupidity, i would say it's more like naive. My parents, and i assume, your parents were taught this so they think it is correct. Much like a hundred years ago most people were being taught that "Blacks" did not belong with "whites." Thanks to civil rights movements we now know that we are all the same. I would argue that the same thing will happen with this gay vs straight thing. It's all a matter of time. I think it will take longer, mainly because some people put religion before facts.

I hear you bro, didn't mean to sound harsh, you just hit a soft spot. I'm Mexican like you and most of my family hates gays, my cousin just "came out" and everyone is treating him like shit so he ran away with his "guy" and he wants to get married. So yeah, once again my bad.

 

[pkmn Trainer Zach]

I wasn't bashing you at all, and I'm truly sorry if I offended you. If you noticed, my question was why are you skeptical about giving the same rights (the church does not have to marry anyone they don't want to; it's their right) to gays? And like I said, if they want to get married, they'll have to find a church that will do that. I'm talking about the fact that all people should have the same rights.

Again, sorry if I offended you.

 

[gorm]

marriage has absolutely no function vis a vis love, and if it does it's *my lady/man wants to get married because their parents did it and i respect that i guess ^_^* but getting married doesn't affect your love for someone at all, its a traditional ritual that we have come to associate with certain social benefits. while thats convenient it also means its fucking terrible to discriminate that right from anyone.

it improves the relationship in that the couples get benefits and solidify their status and commit to eachother and also get tax benefits

but love can come form anywhere and if you ever tell a gay man he is not in love with another gay man you are terrifying and deeply stupid/ignorant.

by denying a group of people the RIGHT to assert themselves in society when they have done NOTHING but fall in love unconventionally you are being prejudiced and stupid, there is nothing else to it

the bible mentions homosexuality because homosexuality back then was about fucking. its not anymore, leave it alone. if you think straight people fucking is in danger you are in trouble yourself.

Topic Wherein 2% of Californians will call the 51% who don't believe said whiny 2% should be able to call their serial sexual relationship just as legitimate as an actual marriage bigots.

serial sexual relationship?

do you fucking know a single gay person you fuck?

 

[TAY]

Prop 8 is trying to make gay marriage illegal again in my native California. It's total bullshit, but it obviously gets a lot of attention from hyper religious types. So far their main argument is "your kids will learn about gays in school" (the ads are really annoying) which is fine by me but apparently a lot of people don't want that? I don't see what's wrong with telling our kids what the law is.

Even if you think it's wrong, gays getting married doesn't affect heterosexual people at all...it's totally ridiculous government regulation that blatantly discriminates against a particular social group. For some reason a lot of people think their own marriage becomes less sacred if gays can do it too. Honestly I don't see how any church- or religion-based argument could come into play on a government-based initiative, but w/e it's bullshit anyway. Tomorrow I'm going to wake up at 7:00 and get ready, then head to the polls and vote a big fucking NO on prop 8.

And fuck I know in 20 or 30 or 50 years gay marriage will be the norm in this country, and we'll look back and think about how discriminatory we were, similar to what we currently do regarding the 1950's.

 

[Olie]

I wasn't bashing you at all, and I'm truly sorry if I offended you. If you noticed, my question was why are you skeptical about giving the same rights (the church does not have to marry anyone they don't want to; it's their right) to gays? And like I said, if they want to get married, they'll have to find a church that will do that. I'm talking about the fact that all people should have the same rights.

Again, sorry if I offended you.

No need to be sorry, we are all entiteled to our own voice. I am not really sceptical about Giving gay people these rights, I'm sure nothing wrong would not come out of it. Hell, most of the openly gay people I know are the nicest people I know. Gay people are deserving of most of the same rights as you or I, you're correct about that; but we all were brought up thinking what is right and wrong. I was brought up being told that Gay marriage is wrong, but I respect their relationships in their entirety.