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Electrolyte, Gligar should definitely have Baton Pass at least slashed on that set. First slash in the last slot imo. Also Hyper Cutter is way better than immunity on an offensive set, for Snubbull and other intimidates. Immunity should only be run on the defensive sets really and even then, Hyper Cutter is a good option. Still, I agree that having the last set is a bit pointless, since it just seems to be a mixture of worse versions of the first two.
I'll refrain from adding a set for now but I did want to note a few things:
Slash Aqua Jet in front of Waterfall on Tirtouga. Then slash Hydro Pump after Ice Beam. AJet is better than waterfall because Stone Edge is solid STAB anyway and priority gives Tirt a solid way to keep itself from being revenge killed after knocked down to sturdy.
Tirtouga also needs a lot more speed / SpA. A spread of 180 Spd / 212 Atk / 92 SAtk is better, in my opinion- a few extra points in bulk is nothing compared to a more powerful Ice Beam.
I agree with Electrolyte. Priority Aqua Jet is essential to getting around enemy attacks. SpA and Spe are as much important, but you can invest remaining EVs in HP and Def. So a spread could be: 4 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 92 SAtk / 180 Spd
P.S.: Could be a good idea adding a small pokemon image on sets (in first message), so new user can understand easily what we are talking about.
Defog and Stealth Rock on the same set work so well together. You can argue that "it's kind of dumb to have Defog on an SR setter", but really the beauty in it is that both in conjunction form tremendous utility. There are times when you need Stealth Rock to wear down a Ponyta or a Sneasel, and then there are times where you need Defog so your own Sneasel / Ponyta / Growlithe / whatever isn't worn down. You can also just throw down Stealth Rock and Defog later at your leisure, when Rocks have done enough for you or you're much better off getting rid of opposing Rocks than keeping your own. Yes, it is arguably counterproductive to have both on the same set, but it is definitely not unviable. Really, the best Gligar sets I've used are Gligars that have the ability to function as a utility Pokemon and an offensive threat. Sometimes you need to get off a Defog and sometimes you just need Gligar to kill shit. It's how it is in a meta where every offensive threat under the sun is running around.
Amaura @ Berry Juice
Ability: Refrigerate
Level: 5
EVs: 232 Spd / 224 SAtk / 52 SDef
Modest / Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Ancient Power
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Thunderbolt
Amaura @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 232 Spd / 224 SAtk / 52 SDef
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Ancient Power
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
RP Amaura with Timid notably gets past Unburden Swirlix, but I'm not sure if the power decrease when you use Timid fails to net some kind of important OHKO. Personally, I'm not really a fan of RP Amaura unless it has Snow Warning, I just don't think it hits hard enough.
Cottonee still doesn't have its Fairy-typing on PS! so no one has been able to test a set, but I imagine it would be something like that. The slashes are kind of funky so if anyone has a more organized set that would be work. Cottonee just has a shit ton of viable options so it's hard to tell what kind of set would become popular.
I think you're sort of over thinking the idea of Defog and Stealth Rock on the same set. It's not counterproductive if you use Defog then Stealth Rock, sort of like Rapid Spinning then using Stealth Rock on the same Pokemon. It's generally not worth it to Defog once your hazards are up (unless in specific scenarios / team's especially weak to them).
On the refrigerate set I think it would be worth it to use nature power over ice beam (nature power is tri attack now, I don't know if PS has updated that though), as this essentially becomes an (80 x 1.3) 104 BP STAB boosted ice move that has a 20% chance of inflicting status over a 10% chance. It also allows Amaura to get around sucker punch, which is pretty cool i you ask me.
So I'm going out on a limb here and saying the Charmander is still shit, but apparently Bulbasaur and Squirtle got some buffs (Bulba can now use Chlorophyll and Squirtle got Aura Sphere for some reason.) Anyone know if they are any good?
Don't be mad but I think I'm going to try making the sets look better / make more sense because this is like an official thing right? Also, weren't we going to note which Pokemon were PB LC and which were non PB LC?
Gligar @ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock / Knock Off
- Acrobatics / U-turn
- Earthquake
- Roost
Sneasel @ Berry Juice / Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Spd / 236 Atk
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Ice Punch / Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off / Bite / Brick Break
Still looks messy but it's mostly because of Pokebank stuff. If we were to split them up into non PB and PB it would be easier: IP / Knock Off / IS / [Fake Out / Brick Break / Poison Jab] and then Icicle Crash / Ice Shard / [Pursuit / Bite] / [Fake Out / Brick Break / Poison Jab].
Yeah the problem with Gligar is that it gets so many awesome moves but it can only use 4 of them at once. To be really honest it mostly depends on what exactly you're using Gligar for- as all of those sets just boil down to a STAB move + 3 fillers- usually one more attack and 2 support moves. You could really just scrunch it all into 1. pivot and 2. offensive set and put everything else as 'other options'.
My point in my above post regarding Stealth Rock / Defog was centered around the fact that there are probably better things Gligar can run in one of those two slots. I'd much rather have Swords Dance or Knock Off or Baton Pass instead of Stealth Rock if I'm already running Defog. You can definitely still run SR + Defog in one set, but I wouldn't suggest it if your Gligar's main purpose is to act as a setup and/or passing sweeper.
Sneasel also 'suffers' the same kind of 4MSS that Gligar does, though it's not as serious. Honestly I don't see any warrant for Pursuit or Bite at all; at least definitely not the latter, which is outclassed now by Knock Off in every regard (seriously why is it even there?) Pursuit is ehh ok but I wouldn't put in on the set; Knock Off definitely has a lot more use since it's not as if there exists any significant threat in LC that is actually weak to Pursuit trapping.
Also why doesn't the SD set have 36 SpDef EVs or do those EVs not matter?
Sneasel also 'suffers' the same kind of 4MSS that Gligar does, though it's not as serious. Honestly I don't see any warrant for Pursuit or Bite at all; at least definitely not the latter, which is outclassed now by Knock Off in every regard (seriously why is it even there?) Pursuit is ehh ok but I wouldn't put in on the set; Knock Off definitely has a lot more use since it's not as if there exists any significant threat in LC that is actually weak to Pursuit trapping.
Magnemite @ Berry Juice
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 36 Def / 240 SAtk / 76 SDef
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Magnet Rise
Very important set for Magnemite, useful like strong bulky pivot. Magnet Rise is to take care of ground attack moves, Volt Switch and eventually Thunderbold (HP fire is usually against Ferroseed) and incisive FlashCannon powerful STAB move. In fact 20 SAtk is not a small amount.
Surskit @ Berry Juice
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 20 Def / 200 SpA / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest nature
- Sticky Web
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Rain Dance
- Giga Drain
*Timid can also be used; I haven't decided between the two yet but I suggest Modest because of Sticky Web + Swim Swift anyway
This is the most viable Surskit set existing right now. It has two main goals- 1. Set Sticky Web and 2. set up Rain Dance and hit things hard. Surskit has an added advantage that it not only sets Sticky Web but it can also hit things pretty hard with quick and powerful Swift Swim + Rain boosted Hydro Pumps if the opponent doesn't hit it hard fast. 15 base SpA after Modest isn't that great but 242.5 base power STAB-boosted and Rain-boosted Hydro Pump certainly is. You can also use Scald to cripple opponents while still hitting them for quite a decent amount. The last slot has Giga Drain to hit opposing Water-types and for healing if needed. If you want, you can also run Signal Beam or some shit like that but honestly it doesn't matter
EDIT: @ below, fixed. Jeez, these distributions and stuff change like everyday lol
Surskit @ Berry Juice
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 20 Def / 200 SpA / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest nature
- Sticky Web
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Rain Dance
- Giga Drain
*Timid can also be used; I haven't decided between the two yet but I suggest Modest because of Sticky Web + Swim Swift anyway
This is the most viable Surskit set existing right now. It has two main goals- 1. Set Sticky Web and 2. set up Rain Dance and hit things hard. Joltik is a better Sticky Web setter, but Surskit has an added advantage that it can hit things pretty hard with quick and powerful Swift Swim + Rain boosted Hydro Pumps if the opponent doesn't hit it hard fast. 15 base SpA after Modest isn't that great but 242.5 base power STAB-boosted and Rain-boosted Hydro Pump certainly is. You can also use Scald to cripple opponents while still hitting them for quite a decent amount. The last slot has Giga Drain to hit opposing Water-types and for healing if needed. If you want, you can also run Signal Beam or some shit like that but honestly it doesn't matter
Electrolyte Your EV spread for Surskit is slightly off. Also, there is no legal way to get Giga Drain and Sticky Web on the same Little Cup Surskit, since Giga Drain is a Gen V tutor move and Sticky Web is only obtainable by levelling up to Lv. 46 (meaning you have to breed it in Gen VI to get it at Lv. 5).
Keats (Surskit) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Spd / 196 SAtk / 36 HP / 20 Def / 20 SDef
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Signal Beam
And here's an Inkay set that pairs quite well with Sticky Web:
Aaight (Inkay) (F) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 HP / 12 Def
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Foul Play / Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Superpower
After setting up Sticky Web with my above Surskit, I kept finding myself in the position of having my Sandshrew out as my opponent switched in Gligar and went for the Defog, so I looked at who else gets SR and Rapid Spin and found Baltoy, which I remember from Claydol also has access to Ice Beam.
I'm rather amazed, but this guy appears to be working out pretty well.
Nes Katan (Baltoy) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 SAtk / 196 HP / 80 Def / 36 SDef
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
For those who aren't familiar with Hebrew, "Nes Katan" translates as "Small Miracle." It was originally a play on the fact that I have a Claydol named "Nes Gadol" due to its similarity to a dreidel ('tis the season!), but it's literal translation has ended up being quite fitting.
Some calcs:
196+ SpA Baltoy Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 20-28 (95.23 - 133.33%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
196+ SpA Baltoy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 20-24 (83.33 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Gligar 97BP Knock Off vs. 196 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Baltoy: 18-23 (78.26 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO (and who runs Adamant LO Gligar with Knock Off?)
Outside of Gligar, the idea behind this set is to play to Baltoy's strengths--switch into things like Magnemite, Drilbur and Sandshrew (more calcs below):
196+ SpA Baltoy Earth Power vs. 76 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Chinchou Scald vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Baltoy: 12-14 (52.17 - 60.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232+ SpA Chinchou Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Baltoy: 20-26 (86.95 - 113.04%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
(so leave Chinchou to Tangela)
196+ SpA Baltoy Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drilbur: 18-22 (81.81 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
236+ Atk Life Orb Drilbur X-Scissor vs. 196 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Baltoy: 16-21 (69.56 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Sticky Web and predicting EQs helps out a lot here)
240+ SpA Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Baltoy: 9-12 (39.13 - 52.17%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO
(yeah...)
196+ SpA Baltoy Ice Beam vs. 116 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Sandshrew: 14-18 (60.86 - 78.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236+ Atk Sandshrew Night Slash vs. 196 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Baltoy: 20-24 (86.95 - 104.34%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
(note that I'm using Night Slash as a placeholder for Knock Off)
Bottom line is that Baltoy is obviously not the best Pokemon out there, but it seems to work really well for the role I need it in.
I could be wrong but Berry Juice provides sometimes automatic HP restore after a Substitute. For example, some face-to-face vs Gligar are decided by this additional resource. Otherwise you can use "normal" Eviolite.
As a general rule: Berry Juice > Eviolite in all situations except very specific OHKOes and if the Pokemon in question has recovery. I would probably say you would get more use out of Eviolite on that set.
I have a few sets that have been holding their own, maybe they could be added. I am not very good with EVs though, just knowing when the slider stops moving so yes. Maybe someone could improve the EVs a tad, I think that could be definitely done.
Aron't you gonna burst?
Aron @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 196 Atk
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metal Burst
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
My favorite revenge killer of any sweeper gone mad with power. If no spikes/rocks are down, after a teammate goes down send out this little gem. With so many huge weaknesses, and with LC being such a speed oriented metagame, most people opt to OHKO Aron, and almost always they will hit it first. Sturdy stops that though, and to their surprise they get a massive stab metal burst to the face. I don't think anything survives that except other sturdy users and possibly Magnemite. But this isn't a simple one for one trade, no. With max attack, a positive attack nature, and amazing coverage, aron only lacks speed, which is it's downfall. Custap berry easily patches that up; having priority on earthquake ( for steel/poison/grounded fire types ), on head smash ( which eats anything neutral to it alive ), and iron head ( for fairies and rock types! ), aron can usually get off two kills per match. Best part about using head smash is to get a free switch in while damaging the opponent massively.
Loses to priority, fake out especially. Also loses to multihit moves, and once sturdy is broken it can't carry it's weight as well. Burn and paralysis can mess it up too, mostly burn though. Mold Breaker pokemon, as well. Flinching moves, while not 100% likely to stop AronBurst, can prevent it from getting off metal burst.
Note, has like 116 spare EVs that I couldn't figure out wtf to do with.
Who needs a Scarf?
Croagunk @ Berry Juice
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpAtk / 36 SDef
Brave or Quiet Nature
- Fake Out
- Vacuum Wave
- Sucker Punch
- Bullet Punch / Hidden Power Ice / Dark Pulse
The king of revenge killing is here. Fake out breaks sashes, sucker punch handles psychic types that want to muscle in on our frog. Vacuum wave handles rock types. Bullet Punch is noted for that shell smashing fiend Crustle, as well as a priority that dents fairies. HP Ice is for gliscor although you'll need to hit it on the switch. If only it had Ice Shard too, lmao. Dark pulse is for ghosts who'll try to play around sucker punch, and make burns less game ending for our frog. Vacuum wave beats sneasel regardless, it's nice. Since a lot of people have been running berry juice instead of eviolite now, the lighter damage of priority manages to be enough.
Maybe these sets will be valid like salad idk.
Yeah this was my first post in the LC section and I thought it was the Interesting moveset thread. But I did have a set from here I think deserves a spot...!
Curselax Mini
Munchlax @ Berry Juice
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Def / 236 SDef
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy or Careful Nature
- Curse
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Pursuit / Fire Punch
Not even burn can fully stop MiniCurselax, as you can solidly boost to +4. HP Spread is for people trying to wear you down with weather, so you'll only lose 1HP a turn. Moves are for maximum coverage so you don't get walled; pursuit is only walled by Pawniard, Fire Punch is walled by rock types. Lots of special attackers can't muscle through without boosting up, especially fire and ice types. Curselax would kill to have this level of recovery, as Berry Juice can recover 70% of it's HP. Recycle's got a good amount of PP too. Body Slam's para chance is way better than Return's damage, as a lucky para can let you recycle or curse or simply attack again. Although even paralyzed, most anything will outspeed you.
As a general rule: Berry Juice > Eviolite in all situations except very specific OHKOes and if the Pokemon in question has recovery. I would probably say you would get more use out of Eviolite on that set.
