Other Psychic Typing

[SotheBlacKnight]

To anyone still out there who think that by saying that Psychic is a bad typing = all Psychic type pokemons are bad, you're thinking about it the wrong way. Rather than try to bring up good or decent Psychic pokemons ask yourself this: how many of those good psychic pokemons would prefer to be Fairy. Lati@s, Slowbro, even Alakazam would all be better if they were Fairy over Psychic.

Now look at what resists Psychic : Psychic, Dark, and Steel. How the hell do you deal with that? Well, Bug covers Psychic and Dark, Fighting covers Dark and Steel, and Ghost is a good option to deal with other Psychics. But each of these types are resisted by another Psychic resistance! Steel resists Bug, Psychic resists Fighting, and Dark resists Ghost! It's almost as is Psychic coverage was specifically designed to suck as much as it can with the least resistances possible! Psychic types have no choice but to run 3 coverage moves because of this. In most cases, those moves are Shadow Ball and Focus Blast.

But wait! Don't these two moves have perfect coverage together? Why, yes they do! Such is Psychic STAB's baffling awfulness that most Psychic-types have to run perfect unstabbed coverage so as to not get walled. In fact, it's quite common to see Reuniclus without any STAB! After all, why waste a moveslot on Psyshock when you could just run perfect coverage and still have space for both Calm Mind and Recover! If it carries STAB, CM Reuniclus actually risks getting walled by either Dark-types or Psychic-types. You cannot look at me in the eye and tell me that Reuniclus wouldn't rather be a Ghost type, or a Fighting type, or even a Normal type, or literally anything else than a Psychic type.

Psychic-types aren't just terrible defensively : they are the type with the the absolute worst offensive synergy with other types. Heck, even Normal is much better, since Normal-types can easily get away with running Normal-Ghost coverage this gen! After all, it's only walled by Tyranitar and Bisharp! That's some really good coverage right there!

I completely agree with this statement.

alexwolf EDIT: Removed the wishful thinking, please stay to existing stuff.

 

[BaffleBlend]

I find Psychics with STAB Psyshock to be one of the best counters to Fairy-types (with the exception of Mawile, who has other counters), because everyone sees Poison- and Steel-type attacks coming a mile away (with Hidden Power Ground being an effective and valuable weapon against both even within fairies). Most fairies are massively specially-defensive while horribly physically-defensive; Psyshock destroys Florges and Clefable.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Shit, how did I forget about them. I guess next time I'll double check.

Although, aside from Mega Gardevoir and maybe Medicham, all of those Pokemon would rather not be Psychic-types as well. Deoxys hates his lack of resistances and bland STAB coverage (though Psycho Boost is so powerful that it matters less) and Victini and Jirachi hate being weak to Knock Off/Pursuit/common priority moves. Medicham's typing is shit defensively, but he can use STAB Zen Headbutt to break Megasaur, so that's a plus.

What does it matter what a Pokemon wishes it was...? Every Pokemon in the game wishes it was part fairy. /thread in that case.

Psychic is an interesting typing and makes for an interesting asset.

Honestly, I think Latios/Latias are better and more interesting Pokemon for being part Psychic. Celebi would be pretty bland, and much less interesting a Pokemon if it wasn't part Psychic (it would be much less useful overall I'd say).

The low base power and relative rarity of Ghost/Bug/Dark attacks and weakness of Knock Off after the first hit is part of what makes Deo-D's spiking viable. I mean, imagine of Deo-D was a Steel type weak to Fire, Fighting and Ground...

Psychic has been only a shadow of itself since 1st gen, but honestly I'd say it's a better typing now than it was in 4th gen (though was better in 5th probably), and plays a pretty important role in the meta.

 

[Terminate421]

Funny thing is that while GF made good bug types in gen 2, they forgot making good bug type moves. Heracross got megahorn, which is nice until you realize that it's one shotted by any self respecting psychic type. Scizor got the almighty fury cutter as it's bug type STAB, and suddenly pin missle jolteon is still looking like the "best" user of bug type moves. At least dark types got Houndoom, who was amazing in gens 2 and 3 and was a great offensive counter to psychics.

Scolipede the fairy hunter, and his Speedboosting STAB Megahorn/Poison Jab (Plus 10 base points added to attack power across generations) would like a word with you.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

What does it matter what a Pokemon wishes it was...? Every Pokemon in the game wishes it was part fairy. /thread in that case.

Psychic is an interesting typing and makes for an interesting asset.

Honestly, I think Latios/Latias are better and more interesting Pokemon for being part Psychic. Celebi would be pretty bland, and much less interesting a Pokemon if it wasn't part Psychic (it would be much less useful overall I'd say).

The low base power and relative rarity of Ghost/Bug/Dark attacks and weakness of Knock Off after the first hit is part of what makes Deo-D's spiking viable. I mean, imagine of Deo-D was a Steel type weak to Fire, Fighting and Ground...

Psychic has been only a shadow of itself since 1st gen, but honestly I'd say it's a better typing now than it was in 4th gen (though was better in 5th probably), and plays a pretty important role in the meta.

You do make some good points, but there are a couple I disagree with.

That's not the point I was making about "wishing they were another type." Obviously every Pokemon wishes it were the best offensive and defensive type in the game. The point I was trying to make was that the benefits these individual Pokemon gain from being a Psychic-type (defensively limited to resisting Fighting-type attacks and offensively limited to beating Fighting-types and Megasaur) are not as great as the costs of being a Psychic-type (being weak to Dark- and Ghost-type moves, which only got more common after the Steel nerf / offering no other relevant resistances / not having powerful STAB moves / having STAB moves with only limited coverage) and that, overall, these Pokemon would just rather not be Psychic-types.

Yes, Latias and Latios are more interesting for being part Psychic (they are the only Dragon/Psychic-types I guess), but I don't agree that being part Psychic is so great for them. So they can check Pokemon like Keldeo, but the Pokemon that their typing allows them to beat aren't seen nearly as often as the Pokemon who beat them due to their typing -- Pokemon like Tyranitar (11 in usage in Feb), Bisharp (9 in usage), and the omnipresent Aegislash (2 in usage).

The Lati's do also have a good niche in checking Mega Venusaur, but again, he's not seen as much as Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Aegislash either (16 in usage). I guess it's up to the individual whether or not the burden of being a Psychic-type is worth the ability to handle Megasaur.

Okay, Celebi does have a substantial niche due to its Psychic typing, you got me there. It is a bit sad though that it has to rely on dry Baton Passing because it's Pursuit-bait otherwise, but Celebi is one of the few Psychic-types who would be sad if it were pure Grass.

Also, while most Knock Off users can't 2HKO Deo-D, Bisharp as an 81% chance to OHKO with it. He's the second most common user of Knock Off after Conkeldurr, and can limit Deo-D to just Stealth Rock 4/5 of the time (and two layers all the time). Aegislash can also limit Deo-D to just SR through a combination of Shadow Ball (69.7 - 82.8%) and Shadow Sneak (27.6 - 32.2%), leaving him with a very small chance of getting multiple layers. I wouldn't call Ghost-type attacks relatively rare at all, if just because of Aegislash.

Although I have to agree with you when you say that Psychic-types are definitely better now than they were in Gen IV, but it'd hard to be that awful ever again. They've definitely come down since last gen though.

 

[SotheBlacKnight]

Psychic is an interesting typing and makes for an interesting asset.

Honestly, I think Latios/Latias are better and more interesting Pokemon for being part Psychic. Celebi would be pretty bland, and much less interesting a Pokemon if it wasn't part Psychic (it would be much less useful overall I'd say).

The low base power and relative rarity of Ghost/Bug/Dark attacks and weakness of Knock Off after the first hit is part of what makes Deo-D's spiking viable. I mean, imagine of Deo-D was a Steel type weak to Fire, Fighting and Ground...

Psychic has been only a shadow of itself since 1st gen, but honestly I'd say it's a better typing now than it was in 4th gen (though was better in 5th probably), and plays a pretty important role in the meta.

Interesting doesn't mean better or even good. I could say that a majority pokemons should be part Dark because they have the most unique and weird movepool (seriously other than Bite, Crunch, and Dark Pulse Dark moves are crazy) but I don't think that would make any poke better (expect some Psychics and Ghosts).

I like to think that Psychics did get a little better in gen 5, with new moves like Psyshock and Stored Power it got some interesting twists. Plus Fighting was at an all time high and Psychics could've been used to counter them. But all that went out the window in gen 6, with Fairy types and Aegislash nerfing Fighting offensively, Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir drive that even further with a much more dangerous offensive type. And the real nail in the coffin is Aegislash and Bisharp and that Knock off is common and used everywhere, it's more dangerous to be a psychic type than ever. Psychic types are worse then they were in gen 4.

Also if Deo-D were a Water or Fairy it would be even better and hey Steel Deo-D sounds really good to me.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I disagree that Latios/Latias would be better Pokemon without their Psychic-type. They'd still be Pursuit bait for AV/Mega TTar or Scizor (fuck, Goodra is pretty much Pursuit Bait), still take a massive hit by any STAB Knock Off, Sucker Punch, or U-Turn, etc.

But Pokemon like Infernape and Keldeo would be way more viable if Lati@s were not Psychic-types-- inversely, that Fighting resistance is a really useful! Moreover, Psyshock letting it smash Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax is part of why those Pokemon suck, and only Chansey is really viable. Add in Mega Venu, and Psychic STAB is way more useful than it was in DP (though admittedly not as useful as in BW...).

I honestly don't think you can be certain Lati@s would be better as pure Dragon.

 

[Punchshroom]

I disagree that Latios/Latias would be better Pokemon without their Psychic-type. They'd still be Pursuit bait for AV/Mega TTar or Scizor (fuck, Goodra is pretty much Pursuit Bait), still take a massive hit by any STAB Knock Off, Sucker Punch, or U-Turn, etc.

But Pokemon like Infernape and Keldeo would be way more viable if Lati@s were not Psychic-types-- inversely, that Fighting resistance is a really useful! Moreover, Psyshock letting it smash Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax is part of why those Pokemon suck, and only Chansey is really viable. Add in Mega Venu, and Psychic STAB is way more useful than it was in DP (though admittedly not as useful as in BW...).

I honestly don't think you can be certain Lati@s would be better as pure Dragon.

I believe the main reason people harp on about Lati@s's Psychic-type is because it gives them essentially no chance against a Pursuit user at all, limiting them to only one Defog in a match or wait until the trappers are KOed / weakened enough. Meanwhile, as you keep Lati@s on the backburner, your hazard weak Pokemon will have limited to no switches at all. Also, Goodra is not really Pursuit bait due to its access to Focus Blast and Fire Blast, which Lati@s would kill to have.

That said, Fighting resistance and STAB Psyshock are nice perks for them to have, but at this point Lati@s are no longer 'sweepers' as much as they are 'offensive support', and if shedding that Psychic-typing allows them to do that latter job better then I can see why people would make that case.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Also if Deo-D were a Water or Fairy it would be even better and hey Steel Deo-D sounds really good to me.

Deo-D's typing is not actually that bad, at least for the function of a suicide lead. Fairy would be better but that's because it's the single best defensive typing, nothing can compete.

Bug: There are three FE Pokemon with STAB Mega Horn (Heracross, Scolipede, Excavalier) and of them only Scolipede is faster than Deo-D. Nothing is capable of OHKOing Deo-D with Bug Buzz, and outspeed (Volcarona and Yanmega would both need to be modest to have a chance.) Mega Heracross' Pin Missile is the strongest bug-type attack but Mega Heracross is slower than Deo-D. The only bug able to stop Deo-D from getting a single layer of hazards up is Adamant Life Orb Scolipede.

Dark: The only Pokemon capable of outspeeding and having a high chance of OHKOing Deo-D with Knock Off is CB Weavile, CB Krookodile and Scarfed Crawdaunt. Night Daze is exclusive to Zoroark, who only has a 62.5% to OHKO with Modest nature and Specs, and is a pretty bad and gimmicky pokemon. There exist zero OU-legal pokemon able to outspeed and OHKO Deo-D with Crunch or Dark Pulse, afaik.

Ghost: Modest Specs Gengar can outspeed and OHKO, but only has a 62.5% chance to and modest is a pretty bad nature for him. Shadow Claw: no.

So that's about it. Only four OU legal pokemon (by my count) are capable of reliably outspeeding and OHKOing Deo-D before it can get a single layer of hazards down. Sure, stuff like Bisharp can prevent it from getting a second layer, but the pool of viable stuff able to even do that is low; anything else that can merely 2HKO risks Red Card.

But if Deo-D were steel? Well there's Flare Blitz, Fire Blast, and Over Heat which have a number of powerful and fast STAB users of them. Even Talonflame would be able to OHKO Deo-D if it were steel, and he has 81 base attack. Just about every worthwhile fighting type carries Close Combat, Superpower or High Jump Kick, or at least has the option to. Earthquake, while not as high powered as those other moves, has no draw back and has ridiculously good distribution. STAB users of it, and Earth Power, capable of outspeeding and OHKOing steel Deo-D would be Garchomp, Lando-T, Landorus, and Krookodile.

Water would be good though. Fast, powerful grass types are almost non-existent, Thunder is inaccurate and only a few things could outspeed and OHKO with T-bolt.

tl;dr Psychic is weak to common attacks like U-Turn and Knock Off, and a Pursuit weakness is exploitable, but at the very least it's not weak to common, high-powered moves like Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, Fire Blast, Close Combat, Hydro Pump, etc... Pursuit weakness sucks for Lati@s, Shadow Sneak weakness sucks for Mega Medicham and Gardevoir, but Deo-D is hard to stop because of its psychic typing, and few typings would truly be better for its role as a suicide lead.

Yeah, but you don't think Lati@s would be be better were it Dragon/Poison? On top of still resisting Fighting, you are no longer weak to Dark and Bug, lose your Fairy weakness and even retain immunity to Ground thanks to Levitate. Psychic is situationaly beneficial, but again, relevant to all other types it's horrible.

Poison/Dragon would be an incredible typing for them, but only because of levitate. They'd be weak to EQ otherwise, which is super common. It'd really only be useful for neutrality to Pursuit, but powerful pursuits would take a huge chunk out of them anyway.

 

[Antihaxxer]

A lot of psychic pokemon are good because they were mainly legendary Pokemon ! Mew, Mewtwo, Lugia, Celebi, Deoxys, Latias, Latios, Jirachi, etc...

They have good stats, good movepool and good abilities ... Psychic/shock is a good move, so is their coverage (Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, Focus Miss, Thunderbolt, or other Stab for dual typing), good supports moves (Calm Mind, Recover, Status) and finally good abilities (Magic Guard, Natural Care, Levitate, Regenerator)

 

[Jaroda]

Deo-D's typing is not actually that bad, at least for the function of a suicide lead. Fairy would be better but that's because it's the single best defensive typing, nothing can compete.

Bug: There are three FE Pokemon with STAB Mega Horn (Heracross, Scolipede, Excavalier) and of them only Scolipede is faster than Deo-D. Nothing is capable of OHKOing Deo-D with Bug Buzz, and outspeed (Volcarona and Yanmega would both need to be modest to have a chance.) Mega Heracross' Pin Missile is the strongest bug-type attack but Mega Heracross is slower than Deo-D. The only bug able to stop Deo-D from getting a single layer of hazards up is Adamant Life Orb Scolipede.

Dark: The only Pokemon capable of outspeeding and having a high chance of OHKOing Deo-D with Knock Off is CB Weavile, CB Krookodile and Scarfed Crawdaunt. Night Daze is exclusive to Zoroark, who only has a 62.5% to OHKO with Modest nature and Specs, and is a pretty bad and gimmicky pokemon. There exist zero OU-legal pokemon able to outspeed and OHKO Deo-D with Crunch or Dark Pulse, afaik.

Ghost: Modest Specs Gengar can outspeed and OHKO, but only has a 62.5% chance to and modest is a pretty bad nature for him. Shadow Claw: no.

So that's about it. Only four OU legal pokemon (by my count) are capable of reliably outspeeding and OHKOing Deo-D before it can get a single layer of hazards down. Sure, stuff like Bisharp can prevent it from getting a second layer, but the pool of viable stuff able to even do that is low; anything else that can merely 2HKO risks Red Card.

But if Deo-D were steel? Well there's Flare Blitz, Fire Blast, and Over Heat which have a number of powerful and fast STAB users of them. Even Talonflame would be able to OHKO Deo-D if it were steel, and he has 81 base attack. Just about every worthwhile fighting type carries Close Combat, Superpower or High Jump Kick, or at least has the option to. Earthquake, while not as high powered as those other moves, has no draw back and has ridiculously good distribution. STAB users of it, and Earth Power, capable of outspeeding and OHKOing steel Deo-D would be Garchomp, Lando-T, Landorus, and Krookodile.

Water would be good though. Fast, powerful grass types are almost non-existent, Thunder is inaccurate and only a few things could outspeed and OHKO with T-bolt.

tl;dr Psychic is weak to common attacks like U-Turn and Knock Off, and a Pursuit weakness is exploitable, but at the very least it's not weak to common, high-powered moves like Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, Fire Blast, Close Combat, Hydro Pump, etc... Pursuit weakness sucks for Lati@s, Shadow Sneak weakness sucks for Mega Medicham and Gardevoir, but Deo-D is hard to stop because of its psychic typing, and few typings would truly be better for its role as a suicide lead.



Poison/Dragon would be an incredible typing for them, but only because of levitate. They'd be weak to EQ otherwise, which is super common. It'd really only be useful for neutrality to Pursuit, but powerful pursuits would take a huge chunk out of them anyway.

This still doesn't address the fact that Psychic is a poor typing overall. If anything it says that it takes a pokemon with stats like Deoxys-D to be top tier, never mind all the Psychics in Ubers. Deo-D could be pure Ghost, still be weak to Dark and Ghost, but now resist Bug and be immune to Fighting on top of that. Again, compared to all other types Psychic is currently near bottom of the barrel.

Uniqueness aside, Lati@s would be much more fearsome pokemon overall as Dragon/Poison. Even if they didn't have Levitate, there are no naturally faster users of Earthquake in OU, so the Latis are sitting kind of pretty, because they don't fear taking SE Pursuit anymore to switch out. If anything they'd have to fear Alakazam ironically who outspeeds and threatens with Psyshock, and of course, scarf Mold Breaker Excadrill. Poison is a pretty good defensive typing. despite being weak to Ground, like Steel, it's otherwise only weak to Psychic. Then it also resists Fighting, Steel, Grass, Bug and Fairy meaning its one of the better dual typings on offer.

alexwolf EDIT: Removed the talk of non existing stuff.

 

[WebBowser]

A lot of psychic pokemon are good because they were mainly legendary Pokemon ! Mew, Mewtwo, Lugia, Celebi, Deoxys, Latias, Latios, Jirachi, etc...

They have good stats, good movepool and good abilities ... Psychic/shock is a good move, so is their coverage (Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, Focus Miss, Thunderbolt, or other Stab for dual typing), good supports moves (Calm Mind, Recover, Status) and finally good abilities (Magic Guard, Natural Care, Levitate, Regenerator)

uhhhh, good abilities where? I actually cannot think of a single legendary with Magic Gaurd, and the idea of legendaries getting good abilities was utterly laughable until gen 5 (relatively few legendaries have the ability to abuse pressure, which was by far and away the most common legendary ability before gen 5). The abilities you mentioned are good, but they are actually on relatively weakish pokemon oddly enough. Sure there are some good abilities on OU relevant legendaries such as prankster thundy and justified terrakion, but for every levitateing rotom form we have utterly laughable legendary abilities such as derpgaurd's aura break, clear body regis, justified keldeo, steadfast megamewtwo-x, and the king of all derp, slow start regigigas. Also, legendaries tend to have disappointing movepools outside of TMs and move tutors due to relatively shallow level up movepool and lack of egg moves. They are really good about learning TMs, which is why folks like Mew remain relevant.

Terminate421 was talking about gen 2, obviously bug got some massive buffs since then (it's really hard to imagine any type being worse then gen 1 bug types though). Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Terminate421]

Terminate421 was talking about gen 2, obviously bug got some massive buffs since then (it's really hard to imagine any type being worse then gen 1 bug types though). Sorry for the misunderstanding.

AH! I see now what you meant.

Scizor and possibly Forretress (Some arguments could be made towards Heracross, but probably not now) are I believe the only good bug types viable in OU from Generation 1 and 2. Doesn't stop me from running Choice Scarf'd sleep powder on Butterfree for what I call "Sucker Punch Sleeps". She isn't good but she gets the job done there.

 

[alexwolf]

This thread is filled with way too much speculation, wishful thinking, and non-existing stuff. Remember, this forum is to discuss about existing stuff, and maybe throw a few 'ifs' here and there to make a point, but nothing more. Refrain from posting about non-existing stuff just for the sake of it, and do it only if it is relevant to your argument regarding the discussion of existing elements of competitive battling.

 

[effyouzion]

Idk why this is a bad thing. There can be bad typings to balance out good pokemon. Like Sergeant Spooky said, Deo-D would be completely upgraded as a ghost type... but do you really want that? Deo-D is already a pain in the dick to kill. Extra weaknesses for him are a good thing.

The best comparison I can think of is gen 1 Gengar. Gengar would have been god damn amazing if he was pure ghost type in gen 1. Having a secondary poison typing (and therefore a weakness to 2 very common attacking types) is the only thing that kept him from being on every single team. Even with that poison typing, he was still one of maybe 10-15 usable pokemon and a worthy addition to a team.

 

[Jaroda]

I think you're thinking of this backwards. You don't worry about the typing structure to keep one pokemon from becoming Ubers (where there are already plenty of Psychic types as is). The typing system is one of the foundations of the entire franchise. The whole purpose of the Fire, Water, Grass starter tradition is that every pokemon has its advantages and disadvantages over the other types, emulating Rock-Paper-Scissors aka Janken. It's also likely the very first thing Game Freak considers when they're making a new pokemon, what type it's going to be. All other factors afterwards like ability, movepool and stats dictate how good an individual pokemon will be in the metagame. But if the typing system is flawed or skewed then the entire game itself is affected negatively.

Sure, you could argue that Normal typing should be inferior to Dragon typing aesthetically. Dragon was designed to be the ultimate type originally, considering the amount of resistances it had compared to the others. But the game suffers when the type balance isn't good. It's why GF introduced Dark and Steel types in the first place to amend the horrific domination Psychic typing had in RBY.

The types will always have a relative hierarchy, but the goal is to make the difference between the ends of the spectrum as small as possible, leaving the majority of the types in the middle, to further encourage the Rock-Paper-Scissors mentality and striving for versatility and type balance. Rather than being able to simply make a team with the 2-3 strongest types.

Ground is a balanced typing. Offensively it's one of the few types super effective against Steel and Poison and the only type super effective against Electric. To balance this all flying types have an immunity to Ground as well as anything with the Levitate ability, and defensively it's weak to Water and Ice, two of the best offensive types in the game, but also being the only one immune to Electric.

Originally Psychic was part of a good trio of Fighting, Psychic and Dark, each type have the advantage over the other. This is now utterly eclipsed however by Fairy, having superiority over BOTH Fighting and Dark and not minding Psychic whatsoever, on top of Dragon immunity. What's the point of participating in this particular trio when Fairy bypasses the entire thing? That right there is type imbalance.

Several of the types need balance tweaks, but this thread is about Psychic. And with the offensive trends in the metagame and relative resistances/coverage to other types it's outclassed. Dark and Bug coverage moves are plentiful. Having a good Poison or Steel coverage move however for Fairy is not only uncommon, but the two attack types are so outclassed in general because of their lack of niche super effective coverage. Steel only used to hit Ice and Rock, and why bother when Fighting hit those already plus three other types? Poison could only hit Grass and otherwise was resisted by 5 types. Never mind the fact that having access to good Steel and Poison moves are far more uncommon than having access to a Dark move by comparison.

tl;dr Psychic is a bad type.

 

[effyouzion]

I think you're thinking of this backwards. You don't worry about the typing structure to keep one pokemon from becoming Ubers (where there are already plenty of Psychic types as is). The typing system is one of the foundations of the entire franchise. The whole purpose of the Fire, Water, Grass starter tradition is that every pokemon has its advantages and disadvantages over the other types, emulating Rock-Paper-Scissors aka Janken. It's also likely the very first thing Game Freak considers when they're making a new pokemon, what type it's going to be. All other factors afterwards like ability, movepool and stats dictate how good an individual pokemon will be in the metagame. But if the typing system is flawed or skewed then the entire game itself is affected negatively.

Sure, you could argue that Normal typing should be inferior to Dragon typing aesthetically. Dragon was designed to be the ultimate type originally, considering the amount of resistances it had compared to the others. But the game suffers when the type balance isn't good. It's why GF introduced Dark and Steel types in the first place to amend the horrific domination Psychic typing had in RBY.

The types will always have a relative hierarchy, but the goal is to make the difference between the ends of the spectrum as small as possible, leaving the majority of the types in the middle, to further encourage the Rock-Paper-Scissors mentality and striving for versatility and type balance. Rather than being able to simply make a team with the 2-3 strongest types.

Ground is a balanced typing. Offensively it's one of the few types super effective against Steel and Poison and the only type super effective against Electric. To balance this all flying types have an immunity to Ground as well as anything with the Levitate ability, and defensively it's weak to Water and Ice, two of the best offensive types in the game, but also being the only one immune to Electric.

Originally Psychic was part of a good trio of Fighting, Psychic and Dark, each type have the advantage over the other. This is now utterly eclipsed however by Fairy, having superiority over BOTH Fighting and Dark and not minding Psychic whatsoever, on top of Dragon immunity. What's the point of participating in this particular trio when Fairy bypasses the entire thing? That right there is type imbalance.

Several of the types need balance tweaks, but this thread is about Psychic. And with the offensive trends in the metagame and relative resistances/coverage to other types it's outclassed. Dark and Bug coverage moves are plentiful. Having a good Poison or Steel coverage move however for Fairy is not only uncommon, but the two attack types are so outclassed in general because of their lack of niche super effective coverage. Steel only used to hit Ice and Rock, and why bother when Fighting hit those already plus three other types? Poison could only hit Grass and otherwise was resisted by 5 types. Never mind the fact that having access to good Steel and Poison moves are far more uncommon than having access to a Dark move by comparison.

tl;dr Psychic is a bad type.

I agree that psychic is a bad type defensively, but there are plenty of good psychic mons. There are more OU psychic mons than ghost mons, and ghost is supposed to be one of the best types.

Offensively, psychic is actually a pretty good type, having only one relatively uncommon immunity and two resists (one of those being itself). This is the same as electrics, except electric's immunity -- ground -- is way more common than dark. As others have mentioned, psychics also have psyshock to hit mixed, which is fucking huge. Gengar would kill for a physical poison move that works off his special attack.

At the end of the day I don't really care if all 16 types are equally good, I just care that the game is balanced. Psychic types are doing pretty well, better than a lot of other supposedly "better" types as I demonstrated above, so I think they can just deal with their defensive shortcomings.

 

[Jaroda]

You're still misconstruing "type" with the pokemon themselves. Pokemon like Lati@s and Deoxys are not used for their Psychic typing, but primarily for their stats and movepool. People don't go "I need a Psychic type" when constructing a team like how you think about a Steel, Fairy or Dragon type.

And that's what I'm advocating: balance, not singularity. The typing is still at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[effyouzion]

Don't think it really matters why they're used as long as they're used. It's not like gen 1 where every poison and bug type not named Gengar literally sucks ass. Like I said there's more psychics than ghosts in OU right now. I don't think anything drastic needs to be done.

 

[mrglass]

Don't think it really matters why they're used as long as they're used. It's not like gen 1 where every poison and bug type not named Gengar literally sucks ass. Like I said there's more psychics than ghosts in OU right now. I don't think anything drastic needs to be done.

Psychic types tend to be gifted with amazing stats. If you ignored typing and ability and ranked pokemon based on how viable their stat distros are, most Psychic types would be at the top. Espeon has the best stat distro of an Eeveelution. Delphox has the best stat distro of the Fire starters.

That's why there are so many Psychic types in OU, and maybe that's what GF is going for with the typing. That doesn't change the fact that being a Psychic type sucks ass.

 

[effyouzion]

^ I agree that it sucks (defensively anyway, offensively it's very good for special attackers). Even said as much.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Really, saying that a type sucks relative to other types is just plain silly. It's not like every Pokemon of one type is going to have the same base stats, movepool, or abilities, so it's pretty unfair to judge a type via generalization. This especially applies to a type as diverse as Psychic. The Psychic type has plenty of Pokemon to assume many different roles, be it specially based (Alakazam, Lati@s, Espeon, etc.), physically based (Metagross, Medicham, Gallade, etc.), support (Gardevoir, Cresselia, Claydol, etc.), or even a mixture of any one of these roles. So to say that Psychic is "worse" than any other type just seems foolish.

That being said, I will concede that a Mono-Psychic typing is just suffering, and it has been since Generation 2. And unfortunately, many stellar Pokemon are faced with this, including Alakazam, Espeon, and the Deoxys Forms. The only type Psychic resists is Fighting (and itself, duh), which isn't anything special considering literally every Fighting type carries something to hit Psychic- types with. And with Knock Off being extremely common this generation, it only adds to the issue. Psychic's three weaknesses are also common offensive types, especially with Aegislash compounding the issue.

 

[Aragorn the King]

The only type Psychic resists is Fighting

Psychic also resists Psychic

 

[HauntedPumpkin]

Psychic also resists Psychic

Ironically this is a point against them since they can't have good coverage with 2 attacking types (Psychic+Fight) alone because of it lol (although Sableye and Spiritomb wouldn't give a damn about this combo). The resistance often doesn't matter since no one is gonna use a Psychic mon to counter another since they generally carry Shadow Ball, and Steel-types exist to counter them better while arguably offering more utility for a team on top of it.

 

[LoDart210]

Wouldn't it be better to discuss how we can use present psychic types to the best ability despite this shortcomings we keep repeating? It seems to be obvious enough...