Metagame PU Old Gens + Discussion (Throh/Gothorita/Sleep banned from BW)

Lilburr

tell me how it feels
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UU Leader
This set sure sounds cool, but wouldn't this set benefit more of shell armor or hyper cutter since I'm pretty sure nothing is boosted by sheer force on this set. I think shell armor benefits more from screens but i could see hyper cutter as a viable option if you're to play this outside of veil. Not 100% sure about that last statement tho
okay you're absolutely right but here was my thought process when i made the kingler team a few months ago:

thinking in current gen okay sheer force liquidation is a pain in the ass to switch into, i will do that with waterfall in bw
then waterfall was illegal and I got sad so I ran crabhammer instead and forgot to change the ability.

Hyper Cutter is probably better. Intimidate shuffling is an annoying thing people can do with stuff like Mawile and Krokorok, so it's nice to have insurance against that. Shell Armour is great on screens too like you said, I've lost games bc my Kingler got crit behind screens before so yea. Up to you which you wanna do, good catch!
 

Bag of Trixx

Thoughts from a balcony
is a Pre-Contributor
~~USUM PU RESOURCES~~



Listed below will be the official and updated USUM PU resources!

Stealth Rock:


Spikes/Toxic Spikes:


Sticky Web:


Hazard Control:
92661
(fairy, ghost, water, dragon, poison)
92660
92659


Electric Immunities:


Fire-type Checks:
:Regirock::Gurdurr::drampa::Jellicent::Lanturn::Qwilfish::Ludicolo::lycanroc::floatzel::Type_Null::musharna::Swanna::Altaria::clefairy::Gastrodon::hitmonchan::Kabutops::Kecleon::poliwrath::Silvally-Dragon:(dragon, water):Throh::Turtonator::Carbink::Simipour::Munchlax::Pyukumuku:

Grass-type Checks:
:skuntank::oricorio-pom pom::sandslash-alola::articuno::drampa::scyther::altaria::roselia::abomasnow::ferroseed::victreebel::oricorio-sensu::clefairy::haunter::swanna::combusken::crabominable::hitmonchan::dodrio::cryogonal::silvally:
(dragon, poison):simisear: :jynx::aurorus::bronzor::turtonator::munchlax::regice::muk::bouffalant::shiinotic::jumpluff:

Water-type Checks:



Normal-type Checks:


Fighting-type Checks:
(fairy, ghost, poison)


Psychic-type Checks:
:skuntank::spiritomb::persian-alola::metang::sableye::oricorio-sensu::raticate-alola::scyther::ferroseed::sandslash-alola::shiftry::golurk::liepard::absol::probopass::musharna::beheeyem::bronzor::pawniard:

Flying-type Checks:

:eelektross::lanturn::oricorio-pom pom::carracosta::regirock::aurorus::aggron::probopass::carbink::sandslash-alola::raichu-alola::abomasnow::lycanroc::omastar::kabutops::rotom-frost::manectric::golem::bronzor::pawniard::electrode::ferroseed:

Ice-type Checks:


Priority Users:
:skuntank::gurdurr::hitmonchan::lycanroc::spiritomb::kangaskhan::abomasnow::carracosta::poliwrath::raticate-alola::absol::shiftry::zangoose::kabutops::pawniard::mawile::golem::dugtrio-alola::floatzel::kecleon::metang::liepard::swanna::volbeat::sableye::scyther::dusknoir::dodrio:

Choice Scarf Users:
:primeape: :swanna: :scyther: :dodrio: :aurorus: :abomasnow: :kabutops: :haunter: :oricorio-sensu: :skuntank: :rotom-frost: :mr mime: :jynx: :manectric: :shiftry: :oricorio-pom pom: :raichu-alola: :sandslash-alola: :simisear:

Wallbreakers/Stallbreakers
Physical:
:aggron::crabominable::torterra::raticate-alola::kangaskhan::zangoose::pinsir::dodrio::stoutland::mawile::golurk::leafeon::abomasnow::kabutops: :shiftry: :dugtrio-alola: :skuntank: :absol::primeape::golem::ursaring::rampardos::pawniard::komala:

Special:
:drampa::oricorio-sensu::oricorio-pom pom::omastar::haunter::aurorus::swanna::jynx::simisear::mr mime::raichu-alola::abomasnow::rotom-frost::beheeyem::wishiwashi::shiftry::turtonator::jellicent:

Mixed:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/512.png


Momentum
Volt Switch:



U-turn:
(fairy, poison)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/775.png


Parting Shot:
(fairy, dragon, water, ghost, poison)

Pursuit:


Clerics
Wish / Healing Wish:



Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:


Weather Setters:
:regirock::volbeat::liepard::abomasnow::aurorus:

Memento:


Rain Abusers:


Sun Abusers:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/586.png


Hail Abusers:


Boosting Sweepers
Swords Dance:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/586.png
(fairy)

Quiver Dance:
92663


Nasty Plot:
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/516.png
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/512.png


Calm Mind:
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/703.png
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/344.png


Shell Smash:


Other:
(Bulk Up)
(Contrary)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/144.png
(Agility)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/062.png
(Belly Drum)
(Power-Up Punch)
(Curse)
(Dragon Dance)
(Iron Defense)
(Acid Armor)
(Barrier)
(Rock Polish)
(Z-Me First)
(Unburden)

Trick Room
Trick Room Setters:



Trick Room Abusers:

S-Rank

S
  • :Eelektross: Eelektross
  • :Jellicent: Jellicent
  • :torterra: Torterra
A-Rank

A+

  • :drampa: Drampa
  • :Gurdurr: Gurdurr
  • :Kangaskhan: Kangaskhan
  • :Mudsdale: Mudsdale
  • :Primeape: Primeape
  • :Regirock: Regirock
  • :Silvally-Fairy: Silvally-Fairy
  • :Simisear: Simisear
  • :Victreebel: Victreebel
A
  • :Aurorus: Aurorus
  • :Carracosta: Carracosta
  • :Cryogonal: Cryogonal
  • :Dodrio: Dodrio
  • :Ferroseed: Ferroseed
  • :Lanturn: Lanturn
  • :musharna: Musharna
  • :oricorio pom-pom: Oricorio Pom-Pom
  • :Qwilfish: Qwilfish
  • :Sandslash-Alola: Sandslash-Alola
  • :Skuntank: Skuntank
  • :stoutland: Stoutland
A-
  • :Abomasnow: Abomasnow
  • :absol: Absol
  • :combusken: Combusken
  • :crabominable: Crabominable
  • :Leafeon: Leafeon
  • :Ludicolo: Ludicolo
  • :Omastar: Omastar
  • :Oricorio-Sensu: Oricorio-Sensu
  • :Raichu-Alola: Raichu-Alola
  • :Rotom-Frost: Rotom-Frost
B-Rank

B+

  • :Articuno: Articuno
  • :Audino: Audino
  • :clefairy: Clefairy
  • :Golurk: Golurk
  • Jynx
  • :lurantis: Lurantis
  • :lycanroc: Lycanroc
  • :Persian-Alola: Persian-Alola
  • :Sableye: Sableye
  • :Swanna: Swanna
  • :Tangela: Tangela
B
  • :Aggron: Aggron
  • :Altaria: Altaria
  • :Bronzor: Bronzor
  • :Carbink: Carbink
  • :Claydol: Claydol
  • :floatzel: Floatzel
  • :Gastrodon: Gastrodon
  • :Haunter: Haunter
  • :hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
  • :Kabutops: Kabutops
  • :Metang: Metang
  • :Pinsir: Pinsir
  • :Silvally-Dragon: Silvally-Dragon
  • :silvally: Silvally-Poison
  • :Type_Null: Type: Null
B-
  • :Kadabra: Kadabra
  • :Kecleon: Kecleon
  • :poliwrath: Poliwrath
  • :Simisage: Simisage
  • :Spiritomb: Spiritomb
  • :Throh: Throh
  • :Turtonator: Turtonator
  • :Zangoose: Zangoose
C-Rank

C+

  • :Dugtrio-Alola: Dugtrio-Alola
  • :Jumpluff: Jumpluff
  • :liepard: Liepard
  • :Mawile: Mawile
  • :Raticate-Alola: Raticate-Alola
  • :Regice: Regice
  • :Roselia: Roselia
  • :scyther: Scyther
  • :Shiftry: Shiftry
  • :Silvally-Water: Silvally-Water
  • :Ursaring: Ursaring
C
  • :Bellossom: Bellossom
  • :Camerupt: Camerupt
  • :Golem: Golem
  • :Muk: Muk
  • :Sawsbuck: Sawsbuck
  • :Servine: Servine
  • :Simipour: Simipour
  • :Stunfisk: Stunfisk
  • :Volbeat: Volbeat
C-
  • :Cradily: Cradily
  • :Drifblim: Drifblim
  • :Granbull: Granbull
  • :Munchlax: Munchlax
  • :Natu: Natu
  • :Pyukumuku: Pyukumuku
  • :Rampardos: Rampardos
  • :Shiinotic: Shiinotic
D-Rank

D
  • :Beheeyem: Beheeyem
  • :Bouffalant: Bouffalant
  • :Ditto: Ditto
  • :Electrode: Electrode
  • :exeggutor: Exeggutor
  • :Mr_Mime: Mr. Mime
  • :Pawniard: Pawniard
  • :Probopass: Probopass
  • :Shuckle: Shuckle
  • :Silvally Ghost: Silvally-Ghost
  • :Smeargle: Smeargle
E-Rank

Everything else

Format:
Stat / Pokémon / Base / Nature / EVs / Boost



180872
Tier S
1560700124561.png


400+ Speed
687 / Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +4
627 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
578 / Leafeon, Sawsbuck / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +2
572 / Combusken / +Spe / 252 / +3
568 / Kabutops / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +2
545 / Bellossom / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +3
538 / Articuno, Pinsir, Qwilfish / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +2
525 / Dodrio, Raichu-A / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
524 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
522 / Combusken / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +3
518 / Drifblim, Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
508 / Manectric, Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
502 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +2
496 / Simisear / 101 / +Spe / 252 / +1
486 / Swanna / 98 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 176 / +2
478 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Haunter, Jynx, Primeape / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
469 / Oricorio (All forms) / 93 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +2
458 / Combusken, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
439 / Skuntank / 84 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Electrode / 150 / +Spe / 252 / 0
436 / Bellossom, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +2
426 / Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / +2
418 / Combusken, Omastar/ 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2



1560700192422.png
Tier A
180873


300-399 Speed
398 / Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / +2
388 / Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
376 / Turtonator / 36 / +Spe / 252 / +2
376 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +1
361 / Floatzel, Persian-A / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Abomasnow / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / +2
356 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 48 / +2
355 / Lycanroc / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
354 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
350 / Dodrio, Dugtrio-A, Jumpluff, Raichu-A / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Combusken / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
342 / Liepard / 106 / +Spe / 252 / 0
339 / Cryogonal, Kadabra, Manectric, Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Simisear, Simisage, Simipour / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
327 / Bellossom / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +1
326 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / +2
324 / Basculin, Swanna / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Haunter, Jynx, Leafeon, Primeape, Silvally (All forms) / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Oricorio (All forms) / 93 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Kangaskhan, Mr. Mime, Zangoose / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0



Tier B


200-299 Speed
298 / Rotom-F / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
297 / Oricorio-G / 93 / +Spe / 192 / 0
295 / Pinsir, Qwilfish / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
293 / Skuntank / 84 / +Spe / 252 / 0
291 / Servine / 83 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Leafeon, Sawsbuck / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 0
284 / Kabutops, Shiftry, Stoutland / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
279 / Kangaskhan, Zangoose / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
278 / Raticate-A / 77 / +Spe / 252 / 0
276 / Hitmonchan / 76 / +Spe / 252 / 0
273 / Absol, Smeargle / 75 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Articuno, Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
262 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
260 / Silvally-Water / 95 / Neutral / 136 / 0
259 / Drifblim, Kabutops, Shiftry, Stoutland / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
253 / Raticate-A / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Absol / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 176 / 0
240 / Abomasnow, Pawniard / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
236 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
229 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Combusken, Golurk, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
220 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 96 / 0
220 / Articuno / 85 / Neutral / 56 / 0
220 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 136 / 0
220 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 128 / 0
220 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 200 / 0
220 / Poliwrath / 70 / +Spe / 96 / 0
219 / Abomasnow, Jellicent, Pawniard / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Aggron, Bellossom, Mawile, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Kangaskhan / 90 / Neutral / 0 / 0
215 / Aurorus / 58 / Neutral / 252 / 0
211 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / 0
209 / Golurk, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Golem / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 0
203 / Crabominable / 43 / +Spe / 252 / 0




1560700251069.png
Tier C
180874


100-199 Speed
199 / Aggron, Mawile, Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
189 / Golem, Granbull / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
188 / Turtonator / 36 / +Spe / 252 / 0
186 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 0 / 0
185 / Crabominable / 43 / Neutral / 252 / 0
180 / Natu / 70 / Neutral / 16 / 0
179 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / 0
178 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 48 / 0
176 / Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 24 / 0
171 / Bouffalant / 55 / Neutral / 100 / 0
171 / Drampa / 36 / Neutral / 252 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
164 / Jellicent / 60 / Neutral / 32 / 0
163 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 0
158 / Poliwrath / 70 / -Spe / 0 / 0
157 / Volbeat / 85 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
156 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
154 / Type: Null / 59 / Neutral / 0 / 0
148 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
145 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 36 / 0
144 / Gourgeist-Super / 54 / Neutral / 0 / 0
137 / Drampa / 36 / Neutral / 116 / 0
137 / Granbull / 45 / Neutral / 44 / 0
137 / Kecleon, Probopass / 40 / Neutral / 84 / 0
137 / Shiinotic / 30 / Neutral / 137 / 0
136 / Audino, Carbink, Eelektross, Mawile, Metang, Muk, Regirock, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
126 / Golem, Granbull, Lurantis, Throh, / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
122 / Crabominable, Cradily / 43 / Neutral / 0 / 0
122 / Eelektross / 50 / -Spe / 0 / 0
116 / Gurdurr, Kecleon, Probopass / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
106 / Clefairy, Mudsdale, Spiritomb / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
103 / Ursaring / 55 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0
100 / Stunfisk / 32 / Neutral / 0 / 0



:Spiritomb:Tier D:Spiritomb:

99- Speed
95 / Spiritomb / 35 / -Spe / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Carbink / 50 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
90 / Carracosta / 32 / -Spe / 0 / 0
82 / Bronzor / 23 / Neutral / 0 / 0
81 / Crabominable / 43 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
76 / Beheeyem / 40 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
69 / Drampa / 36 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
56 / Musharna / 29 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
46 / Pyukumuku, Shuckle / 5 / Neutral / 0 / 0
22 / Ferroseed / 10 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV

(Click Team for Importable!)



Specs Drampa Bulky Offense [made by LordST]


" This is a fairly straight forward team that has a few adaptions to some of the meta developments over last PUPL. A standard Jelli Muds core to cover your Fighting/Normal/Fires with Rindo Jelli there to eat Grass Knots from Simisear as well as Grass STABs from Torterra and Leafeon in order to get a Wisp off. Poisonvally covers Leafeon and Victreebel and gives you useful utility in a pivot move, absorbing tspikes for your defensive core, and hazard control. Multi Attack is used in place of the standard (probably shouldnt be standard anymore) Toxic or Poison Fang in order to actually check SD Fairyvally and CM Clefairy. Scarf Frostom is the Freeze Dry resist and Ground immune as well as the necessary Oricorio check. Specs Drampa and Z Fire Simisear form an incredibly potent offensive core that can easily take advantage of any passive mons such as Cryo, Bronzor, Clef, etc. Protect is a very useful tech on Simisear to protect from Kanga Fake Out and to scout vs scarf revenge killers such as Primeape or Snowslash. This team plays very simply and I believe is an accurate representation of where the meta is after last PUPL. It can struggle a bit vs Psychics, some less common offensive waters, and some flying types, but there are outs vs anything. I think this team could probably replace my current sample team as its a bit outdated." - LordST



Altaria-Torterra Balance [made by Ktütverde]


"The squad is generic enough to showcase metagame staples and at the same time hasn't been used by anyone else because I added some unexpected "spicy" mons like CB Primeape, physical Eel and Bulky Z-Move Altaria. This particular team is designed to make up for the lack of representation of toptiers such as: Eelektross, Defensive Jellicent, Choice Scarf Sandslash-Alola and Primeape. Whereas Altaria -although not an amazing mon in itself- is one of the best "niche" glue thanks to its ability to take on both torterra and simisear as well as Victreebel to a lesser extent (and provide defog support+several key resistances like fighting and grass). So here is this quite generic team where I simply put together great mons sharing great synergy and providing enough redundancy to be easy to pilot by anyone willing to learn gen7 PU." - Ktütverde



Triple U-turn Offense [made by tlenit]


"Super simple offense built around triple u-turn core having access of gaining the momentum and allowing you to bring in the special breakers.
Nothing too fancy - nothing too much. From t1 you are capable of forcing your opponent out with sensu and primeape - depending what you prefer leading after seeing opponents team. Timid drampa lets you outspeed adamant crabominable and slowers like defensive jellicents. Simisear plays the faster secondary special atk breaker role and its Grassium Z allows it to touch lanturn, jellicent and carbink way better.
Standard regirock for rocks with slight investment on spdef side to help out the team overall. Silvally Fairy and Sensu regains the lost momentum after drampa dropping a draco and oppo's mon without problem - also these two keeps the average speed tiering in control very well. Standard scarf primeape works as a late game cleaner with its respective close combat stab. Ape lets you spam u-turn as well and keeps the u-turn loop up.
The team has access to change stuff around whenever you feel comfy enough with it. The sixth slot aka. secondary breaker slot can be changed around to test your own mons without problem. This squad has saw the latest big tournaments (snake, circuit, seasonal etc.) with good success and including the modified 6th slot changes." - tlenit



Grass Spam [made by MZ]


This is a fairly straightforward team centered around pivoting and breaking with Victreebel before cleaning up with Leafeon. Mudsdale+Eelektross+Jelllicent is as standard of a defensive core as they come with a bit of Pursuit on there to help out with certain rare threats like Haunter. Techs such as Close Combat Mudsdale and specially defensive Eelektross also make matchups such as Ferroseed and Abomasnow a bit more workable.

Absol + Victreebel Bulky Offense [made by Specs]


Volt-Turn with some of the strongest breakers the tier has to offer in CB Absol and Z-Victreebel. Very straight forward to play, get them in as much as possible. Regirock, Lanturn, and Silvally-Fairy defend against most of the meta, Primeape forces out a lot and allows you to get in your breakers more often. Some threats to the build are opposing Victrebel's and Simisear though they aren't unplayable with good positioning via consistent offensive pressure. This isn't the most consistent team ever, but it's effective and has had success with new players. Enjoy! - Specs
 
Last edited:
DPP is the best meta, change my mind

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/gabite.gif

Gabite @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw

Dragon/Ground typing means that conventional resists to one of your STABs are gonna get blown back by the other. Earthquake is strong enough to break through something as bulky as Quagsire after a minimal amount of chip damage, and Outrage is a nuke even against resists like Metang. Also outspeeds Victreebel by 1 point with an Adamant nature, which is pretty cool.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/lapras.gif

Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Another choiced wallbreaker, Lapras preys on teams that count on Bellosom as a blanket special wall. Ice STAB is just really difficult to switch into in general, and Lapras has the bulk to take a hit or two while it's doing its job. The stealth rock weakness is unfortunate, but it's nothing that clever Taunt usage or offensive pressure to prevent rocks in the first place can't fix.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/misdreavus.gif

Misdreavus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt

A set intended for use in the lead slot, Focus Sash Misdreavus takes advantage of the ever-common Purugly lead. Taunt and Will-O-Wisp ensure that Misdreavus has utility in almost any lead matchup, denying hazards from Glalie, Relicanth, and Monferno or cripping Purugly. Also comes with the nifty benefit of drawing in and smacking frailer mons like Magmar that expect a bulky Misdreavus.
 
Last edited:

UberSkitty

cuz I got banned from gen 8
is a Contributor to Smogon
Here's the Speed Tiers for DPP PU (Tell me if I'm missing anything)

Format:
Stat / Pokémon / Base / Nature / Evs / Boost / IVs (if not 31)

1606784147122.png
400+ Speed
1606784148842.png

836 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +6
720 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +6
720 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +4
717 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +4
687 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +4
655 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +3
627 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
600 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +3
572 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +3
540 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +4
524 / Mantine / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
524 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
522 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2 / 30
508 / Kadabra / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
498 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +2
597 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +3
492 / Fearow / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +2
478 / Mantine, Victreebel, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
476 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2 / 30
475 / Xatu / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
463 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
462 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30
459 / Zangoose / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
442 / Golduck, Pinsir / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
442 / Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +2
433 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / +1
430 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / +1
428 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
426 / Gastly / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / +2
414 / Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 252 / +2
403 / Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +1

1606784590594.png
300-400 Speed
1606784592089.png

393 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1
392 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
378 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / +2
361 / Sneasel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +2
360 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +1
358 / Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2
355 / Purugly / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
339 / Electabuzz, Kadabra, Rapidash, Lopunny / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Raichu, Regigigas, Fearow / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Xatu, Grovyle / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Magmar / 93 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Murkrow, Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Golbat, Zangoose, Mr. Mime, Vigoroth / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0

1606784605605.png
200-300 Speed
1606784607572.png

295 / Golduck, Pinsir, Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / 0
287 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / 0
284 / Glalie, Gastly / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
264 / Golbat / 90 / +Spe / 96 / 0
262 / Mantine, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
261 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0 / 30
354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
251 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Mantine, Victreebe, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
238 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0 / 30
236 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
229 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
223 / Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Metang / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 216 / 0
211 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / 0
209 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 216 / 0
206 / Misdreavus / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0
200 / Gabite / 82 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783246953.png
100-200 Speed
1606783248108.png

199 / Metang / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
197 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 124 / 0
196 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
189 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
180 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / 0
180 / Armaldo / 45 / Neutral / 216 / 0
179 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
177 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 44 / 0
176 / Politoed, Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Flareon / 65 / +Neutral / 0 / 0
164 / Regigigas / 100 / +Spe / 252 / -2
156 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
140 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 84 / 0
136 / Bellossom, Metang, Muk, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
130 / Solrock / 70 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0
126 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
118 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / -2
116 / Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783187397.png
0-99 Speed
1606783188954.png

96 / Parasect / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
91 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -1
76 / Torkoal / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
68 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -2
54 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -3


This has been done all month IDK why I didn't post sooner :v
 

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Reeece

formerly ReeceHughes
is a Pre-Contributor
:gs/Hitmonchan:
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Hitmonchan in GSC PU
8A8FE6F8-7772-4F83-BF89-11D09382DBB1.png


Hello all, today I would like to bring something up about GSC PU that has been a major factor in the tier for the last 2 months, Hitmonchan. Ever since it was found out that High Jump Kick and Body Slam were, in fact, not illegal on Hitmonchan and it could run a set consisting of High Jump Kick/Body Slam/Rest/Sleep Talk, it had in my opinion, shaped the tier way too much around itself and I believe Hitmonchan is unhealthy for GSC PU.

There are very few reliable switch-ins to Hitmonchan that can actually threaten it in return, with the notable ones pretty much being limited to Drowzee, Mantine, Slowpoke, RestTalk Golbat, and Gastly. There are many other Pokemon that resist Hitmonchan’s High Jump Kick, but aren’t great switch ins due to being ruined by paralysis from Body Slam, such as Venomoth, Tangela, and Beedrill. Hitmonchan can almost freely spam Body Slam in games due to the resists to Body Slam being smacked hard by High Jump Kick. Hitmonchan has an absolutely terrific pairing with Murkrow, who removes almost all of the natural switchins to both Body Slam and HJK because of Pursuit. It also appreciates a Pokemon that can switch in and threaten Magcargo. Hitmonchan is largely too good not to use on teams due to how much of the tier it handles, checking Pokemon such as Elekid, Furret, and Seadra. It warps the tier around it in an unhealthy way, Hitmonchan wars are a very common sight, with the matchup being dependent on luck from Sleep Talk rolls or crits to break through the opposing Hitmonchan. Hitmonchan can even try other options such as Curse or Agility to setup its own late game sweep with how easily it spread paralysis.

Id really like to hear opinions on this, as I believe Hitmonchan to be completely unhealthy for GSC PU in it’s current state. Furret is also an issue, but I feel so to a lesser degree. It does give some good benefits to the tier, such as checking dangerous mons, but if it was to leave the tier it wouldn’t be that bad for the tier, since I assume Hitmontop could do similar roles to it(without Body Slam).​
 
Hi there! I'm finally out of all cups in PU Classic, and I do have to say they were all pretty fun. DPP PU was a new entity for me, but I found it enjoyable and not unlike BW PU, which is a tier I enjoyed. Not here to spout anything yet, just wanted to post some sets I enjoyed.

Gen 4
:dp/monferno:
Infernal (Monferno) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Mach Punch

Is BandFerno a thing? I don't see it on the VR so it probably isn't. I really like BandFerno because it hits hard, punishes Steels like Metang for even daring to switch into Purugly, and unlike other Fire-types, is neutral to Rocks, giving it solid longevity against offense. It's also a great cleaner because a Banded Mach Punch hits pretty hard and the Fire/Fighting combo tears through many weakened defensive cores. Next time I play, I wanna try out Specs since Fire/Fighting + Hidden Power Electric covers pretty much everything.

:dp/bronzor:
Bronze (Bronzor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I wanted a Steel that didn't autolose to EQ Metang. Enter Bronzor. While it doesn't get Psywave this gen, leaving it with EQ that doesn't do much even to other Steels, it's still a great staying presence and a solid check to mons like Purugly, Bellossom (HP Fire doesn't 3hko from defensive sets), and Rhydon. I could probably iron out a few flaws to the set, like which attacking move it has and Rocks -> Toxic if you don't have Rocks on your team already, but it's a nice deviation from Metang since it got boring fast.

Gen 5
:bw/huntail:
Hunting (Huntail) @ White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Surf

Huntail is a super underrated sweeper, and I'm surprised it isn't on the VR. Water is a very good offensive typing in the tier (as shown by BrokePour), and Huntail has all the coverage it needs to wash teams away. I usually pair this with Screens Natu or Zebra so it set up easier on their switch ins, but its high Defense usually lets it set up on weaker physical mons such as Sneasel or Relicanth without Toxic. Fun mon, should be on the VR, and give it a try.

Gen 6
:xy/onix:
Brock (Onix) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunny Day
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Taunt

Yeah, Golem is probably better as a Sun lead, but I like going for the unpredictable option more often. Plus, Onix does have a few things going for it over Golem. Taunt is super nice since most people are going to try to set Rocks on Onix, and a better Speed tier means it can outspeed stuff like offensive Rocks Mawile, which is something over Golem. Not much to say here, just a funny Sun lead.

:xy/frogadier:
Frog (Frogadier) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Rain teams really, really, REALLY hate Lumenion from my experience, so why not slap a Lumenion lure on a Rain team? I like tricking people into think it's another ho-hum Specs mon because of Expert Belt not giving away the set like Life Orb would, but hitting Lumenion with HP Elec (especially on the switch in) is absolutely amazing and puts the opposing team into a horrible position where they have to play much more conservative in order to make sure my backups like Specs Gorebyss and Band Floatzel don't sweep.

:xy/lickilicky:
Lick A Little (Lickilicky) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Was going to use this against Ktu in g1, but chickened out and went the super-safe option in Muk (which ended up costing me). I realized that Ghosts were very rare in ORAS PU apart from Misdreavus, so I went with Curse Lick because it could eventually break past Steels unlike Muk. Body Slam lets it spread Para on switch ins, which is super good in this gen and makes up for the Speed drops Lick will be getting.

Gen 7
:sm/abomasnow:
OBAMA (Abomasnow) (M) @ Eject Button
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Blizzard
- Earthquake
- Focus Blast

Hail lead. Entire idea behind it is to gain momentum against offense teams, and when it can't do that, it tries to kill itself with Wood Hammer. You can probably go even further and minimize IVs for HP, Defense, and Special Defense so it dies that much faster, but I'm too lazy to do that and haven't tested it out yet. Fun mon on a fun team.

Thanks for reading!
 
I've been trying to play a lot of BW PU now that the meta has changed with Throh and Goth gone. A ton of stuff got better and a few things got worse so I'll lay out some of the things I've noticed with recent trends in these nominations.

Rises:
A+ to S: I feel like this one has been needed for a while. Simipour is still the tier's best Choice Scarfer and is super splashable if you need a strong revenge killer. Throh leaving gave it one less bulky mon it has to deal with and the tier having the ability to be more offense based allows it to fit on more teams. Sub+NP sets are also still godly and can sweep teams that usually have good prep for Scarf.
A+ to top A+/S: Shiftry has become a huge threat without Throh. Specs sets have virtually no switch-ins if it can hit a Focus Blast against an opposing Klang and SD sets are super strong with Nature Power being Earthquake in gen 5. Even if it's just a move up to the top of A+, it still is more threatening than Jumpluff imo.
A to A+: This has been getting a lot more usage lately as well. As a rocker, it's really solid being the best one with recovery. As a sweeper however, Torterra really appreciates Throh being gone. Double dance or other offensive sets can more easily fit Stone Edge to hit Jumpluff, Dodrio, and Swanna. It's really good right now and can put in a ton of work in most matchups.
A to A+: I'm a big Monferno fan but with people using fewer Fighting resists and not being trapped by Goth anymore, Monferno really has a chance to shine. It's still threatened by things like Simipour but that also doesn't like taking a +2 Iron Fist Mach Punch. I'd still put it right below Scraggy in terms of being splashable but it's a great sweeper and will get at least one kill 9 times out of 10.
A- to A+: Scraggy is high key one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Dark/Fighting has so few abusable weaknesses and Scraggy can set up on so much of the tier and sweep with an unresisted STAB combo. Especially with Throh gone, this deserves a boost.
A- to A: The versatility this thing has makes it really really good. Scarf is an excellent revenge killer, taking care of Zebstrika, non-Scarf Simis, and other fast mons like that. Band is a super strong breaker thanks to Dragon and Ground having perfect coverage. And defensive sets are good rockers that add Rough Skin chip and phazing to help support a team.
B+ to A-: This has become more than just a niche pick like it used to be. Honestly, all Dark Pokemon probably got a lot better with Throh's ban but Zweilous in particular can spam its super strong Crunches and Outrages with almost no drawback. Klang and Mawile don't like taking Superpowers and that's really all it needs. It's held back by its Speed and Hustle obviously hurts its accuracy but it's still a really good pick.
B+ to A/A-: Bronzor walls so much shit it's funny. While it does struggle against some stuff like Monferno, Zweilous, Scraggy, and Shiftry, it also almost completely walls things like Jumpluff, Torterra, Dodrio, and Beheeyem making it a really solid defensive mon. Its EVs can also be personalized to fit whatever role you need it to on a team and Psywave prevents it from being too passive of a mon.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-: Every rocker beats this anyway and it's really fallen off. Preventing rocks is nice, but A+ is way too high for this at the moment when it's so passive.
A to A-: Rain and sun aren't a big enough issue for Cloud Nine to be a big enough niche and in almost every other aspect, the duck is outclassed by Simipour.
A to A-: Very hard to find a reason to run this. It's faster than the Simis but being weak to rocks and your two main attacking moves having really harsh recoil in a tier with terrible removal options is not good for it.

I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I missed and the whole VR probably needs an overhaul if we're going to sort everything by real viability but this should be a decent start for most things! BW is still fun and very playable and enjoyable, pls use Scraggy so I can nom it to S-rank eventually.
 
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Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driveris a Community Leader Alumnus
I've been trying to play a lot of BW PU now that the meta has changed with Throh and Goth gone. A ton of stuff got better and a few things got worse so I'll lay out some of the things I've noticed with recent trends in these nominations.

Rises:
A+ to S: I feel like this one has been needed for a while. Simipour is still the tier's best Choice Scarfer and is super splashable if you need a strong revenge killer. Throh leaving gave it one less bulky mon it has to deal with and the tier having the ability to be more offense based allows it to fit on more teams. Sub+NP sets are also still godly and can sweep teams that usually have good prep for Scarf.
A+ to top A+/S: Shiftry has become a huge threat without Throh. Specs sets have virtually no switch-ins if it can hit a Focus Blast against an opposing Klang and SD sets are super strong with Nature Power being Earthquake in gen 5. It still is more threatening than Jumpluff imo.
A to A+: This has been getting a lot more usage lately as well. As a rocker, it's really solid being the best one with recovery. As a sweeper however, Torterra really appreciates Throh being gone. Double dance or other offensive sets can more easily fit Stone Edge to hit Jumpluff, Dodrio, and Swanna. It's really good right now and can put in a ton of work in most matchups.
A to A+: I'm a big Monferno fan but with people using fewer Fighting resists and not being trapped by Goth anymore, Monferno really has a chance to shine. It's still threatened by things like Simipour but that also doesn't like taking a +2 Iron Fist Mach Punch. I'd still put it right below Scraggy in terms of being splashable but it's a great sweeper and will get at least one kill 9 times out of 10.
A- to A+: Scraggy is high key one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Dark/Fighting has so few abusable weaknesses and Scraggy can set up on so much of the tier and sweep with an unresisted STAB combo. Especially with Throh gone, this deserves a boost.
A- to A: The versatility this thing has makes it really really good. Scarf is an excellent revenge killer, taking care of Zebstrika, non-Scarf Simis, and other fast mons like that. Band is a super strong breaker thanks to Dragon and Ground having perfect coverage. And defensive sets are good rockers that add Rough Skin chip and phazing to help support a team.
B+ to A-: This has become more than just a niche pick like it used to be. Honestly, all Dark Pokemon probably got a lot better with Throh's ban but Zweilous in particular can spam its super strong Crunches and Outrages with almost now drawback. Klang and Mawile don't like taking Superpowers and that's really all it needs. It's held back by its Speed and Hustle obviously hurts its accuracy but it's still a really good pick.
B+ to A/A-: Bronzor walls so much shit it's funny. While it does struggle against some stuff like Monferno, Zweilous, Scraggy, and Shiftry, it also almost completely walls things like Jumpluff, Torterra, Dodrio, and Beheeyem making it a really solid defensive mon. Its EVs can also be personalized to fit whatever role you need it to on a team and Psywave prevents it from being too passive of a mon.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-: Every rocker beats this anyway and it's really fallen off. Preventing rocks is nice, but A+ is way too high for this at the moment when it's so passive.
A to A-: Rain and sun aren't a big enough issue for Cloud Nine to be a big enough niche and in almost every other aspect, the duck is outclassed by Simipour.
A to A-: Very hard to find a reason to run this. It's faster than the Simis but being weak to rocks and your two main attacking moves having really harsh recoil in a tier with terrible removal options is not good for it.

I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I missed and the whole VR probably needs an overhaul if we're going to sort everything by real viability but this should be a decent start for most things! BW is still fun and very playable and enjoyable, pls use Scraggy so I can nom it to S-rank eventually.
Been wanting to throw in my 2 cents and now I have the time! I agree with most of these but I figured I'd throw in some thoughts. Planning a large VR overhaul once classic is over too.

:bw/simipour: A+ to S: 100% agree. I would go so far as to say that Simipour is the best mon in the format. At the very least, its impact has no rival. People aren't running Mantine for Swanna, after all. A lot of the new choices for glue go back to Simipour being the best revenge killer and arguably the best wallbreaker as well. Solid S mon.

:bw/Shiftry: A+ to S: I have to disagree with this one, I think it is either good where it is or worth a very small drop to A. While I completely agree that Specs Dark Pulse is crazy free, Shiftry can prove to be clunky to use. It barely provides anything in terms of cohesion and thanks to its iffy typing it can be sometimes hard to bring in. So while yes, it is an excellent mon for checking a lot, it can be difficult to bring into a position to do said checking. I have it on a sample (that im going to replace) so I do think its definitely good, but overall its a tough mon to bring in that adds little to the team besides its amazing wallbreaking. The upper cuts of the meta in A+ are a high bar and Shiftry doesn't quite get in imo.

The rest of your rises are great though...yes, even the Bronzor one.

Here are two from me:

:bw/tentacool: B to A-: One of my favorite things about Pokemon metagames in particular are the unintended side-effects of certain shifts. One of the big ones from the most recent shift was how the surge of Simipour made hazard control easier...because now Simipour's solid counter of Tentacool has plenty of opportunities to come in and demand to spin. There are also other factors such as Vileplume slowly starting to lose popularity (I'll get there) that make Tentacool and its assets (like Toxic Spikes) a lot more valuable and viable as well. Overall I would not go so far as to say that Tentacool belongs on most teams. However, put it on a balance or semistall team and it can pull its weight pretty well.

:bw/swoobat: B+ to A+: Friends, it is time. It is time to admit that Specs Swoobat does work. A lot of work. When we lost Throh and more importantly Circle Throw, a lot of teams suddenly needed some way to deal with setup mons. Specs Swoobat is here to punish close to all of them. Specs Swoobat also checks a lot of the up-and-comers like Monferno surprisingly well. Combine all of that with being the 3rd fastest unboosted mon in the tier with U-Turn and a big enough movepool that you can choose the targets to neutralize and you are left with a genuine staple mon. This is the hill I am dying on apparently.


How about some drops:

:bw/natu: A+ to A: Natu is in the weird position that it is very good at its job. Natu is so good that the entire hazard meta shifted heavily to beat just Natu. So now Natu isn't as good. It is bad because it was so good that everything moved to counter it so it is now countered. My point is that Natu is still well worth the positioning in A. A drop is warranted I agree with that, but to A- is overkill. I have actually started using Reflect on Natu as well, that way it supports the team and beats some of those rockers more consistently.

:bw/vileplume: A- to B+: The Sleep ban was hard for Vileplume. While Vileplume does still do a decent amount of support work, it is notably worse without the Sleep kill in the back. Now other support Grass mons like Torterra and even Meganium are starting to make their mark above Vileplume. One of Vileplume's biggest niches is gone over its competition, so a drop is in order.

:bw/jumpluff: A+ to A-: In the same vein as Vileplume, losing Sleep hurt Jumpluff a lot. The difference is that Jumpluff still has a decent amount of positives in its camp to warrant use. The fast U-Turn is fantastic, and Jumpluff still has that great coverage and nuke of an Acrobatics. A lot of people just replaced Sleep Powder with either Encore, Stun Spore, or Substitute and the support and SD sets still work fine. Even so, its drop in popularity and its success that can be seen from its recent replays is a sure sign of Jumpluff falling from grace. A+ no more.


Like I said at the top, I am planning a whole revamp of the VR, but for now I am grateful for the amount of BW PU being played. This metagame might have been a bit shaky at first, but I think by this point the recent bans have once again produced a more diverse and enjoyable metagame.
 

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