Metagame PU Old Gens + Discussion (VR Updates)

Lilburr

up and down and round and round
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UU Leader
This set sure sounds cool, but wouldn't this set benefit more of shell armor or hyper cutter since I'm pretty sure nothing is boosted by sheer force on this set. I think shell armor benefits more from screens but i could see hyper cutter as a viable option if you're to play this outside of veil. Not 100% sure about that last statement tho
okay you're absolutely right but here was my thought process when i made the kingler team a few months ago:

thinking in current gen okay sheer force liquidation is a pain in the ass to switch into, i will do that with waterfall in bw
then waterfall was illegal and I got sad so I ran crabhammer instead and forgot to change the ability.

Hyper Cutter is probably better. Intimidate shuffling is an annoying thing people can do with stuff like Mawile and Krokorok, so it's nice to have insurance against that. Shell Armour is great on screens too like you said, I've lost games bc my Kingler got crit behind screens before so yea. Up to you which you wanna do, good catch!
 

Bag of Trixx

I like to call it a passion
is a Pre-Contributor
~~USUM PU RESOURCES~~



Listed below will be the official and updated USUM PU resources!

Stealth Rock:


Spikes/Toxic Spikes:


Sticky Web:


Hazard Control:
92661
(fairy, ghost, water, dragon, poison)
92660
92659


Electric Immunities:


Fire-type Checks:
:Regirock::Gurdurr::drampa::Jellicent::Lanturn::Qwilfish::Ludicolo::lycanroc::floatzel::Type_Null::musharna::Swanna::Altaria::clefairy::Gastrodon::hitmonchan::Kabutops::Kecleon::poliwrath::Silvally-Dragon:(dragon, water):Throh::Turtonator::Carbink::Simipour::Munchlax::Pyukumuku:

Grass-type Checks:
:skuntank::oricorio-pom pom::sandslash-alola::articuno::drampa::scyther::altaria::roselia::abomasnow::ferroseed::victreebel::oricorio-sensu::clefairy::haunter::swanna::combusken::crabominable::hitmonchan::dodrio::cryogonal::silvally:
(dragon, poison):simisear: :jynx::aurorus::bronzor::turtonator::munchlax::regice::muk::bouffalant::shiinotic::jumpluff:

Water-type Checks:



Normal-type Checks:


Fighting-type Checks:
(fairy, ghost, poison)


Psychic-type Checks:
:skuntank::spiritomb::persian-alola::metang::sableye::oricorio-sensu::raticate-alola::scyther::ferroseed::sandslash-alola::shiftry::golurk::liepard::absol::probopass::musharna::beheeyem::bronzor::pawniard:

Flying-type Checks:

:eelektross::lanturn::oricorio-pom pom::carracosta::regirock::aurorus::aggron::probopass::carbink::sandslash-alola::raichu-alola::abomasnow::lycanroc::omastar::kabutops::rotom-frost::manectric::golem::bronzor::pawniard::electrode::ferroseed:

Ice-type Checks:


Priority Users:
:skuntank::gurdurr::hitmonchan::lycanroc::spiritomb::kangaskhan::abomasnow::carracosta::poliwrath::raticate-alola::absol::shiftry::zangoose::kabutops::pawniard::mawile::golem::dugtrio-alola::floatzel::kecleon::metang::liepard::swanna::volbeat::sableye::scyther::dusknoir::dodrio:

Choice Scarf Users:
:primeape: :swanna: :scyther: :dodrio: :aurorus: :abomasnow: :kabutops: :haunter: :oricorio-sensu: :skuntank: :rotom-frost: :mr mime: :jynx: :manectric: :shiftry: :oricorio-pom pom: :raichu-alola: :sandslash-alola: :simisear:

Wallbreakers/Stallbreakers
Physical:
:aggron::crabominable::torterra::raticate-alola::kangaskhan::zangoose::pinsir::dodrio::stoutland::mawile::golurk::leafeon::abomasnow::kabutops: :shiftry: :dugtrio-alola: :skuntank: :absol::primeape::golem::ursaring::rampardos::pawniard::komala:

Special:
:drampa::oricorio-sensu::oricorio-pom pom::omastar::haunter::aurorus::swanna::jynx::simisear::mr mime::raichu-alola::abomasnow::rotom-frost::beheeyem::wishiwashi::shiftry::turtonator::jellicent:

Mixed:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/512.png


Momentum
Volt Switch:



U-turn:
(fairy, poison)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/775.png


Parting Shot:
(fairy, dragon, water, ghost, poison)

Pursuit:


Clerics
Wish / Healing Wish:



Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:


Weather Setters:
:regirock::volbeat::liepard::abomasnow::aurorus:

Memento:


Rain Abusers:


Sun Abusers:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/586.png


Hail Abusers:


Boosting Sweepers
Swords Dance:

https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/586.png
(fairy)

Quiver Dance:
92663


Nasty Plot:
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/516.png
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/512.png


Calm Mind:
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/703.png
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/344.png


Shell Smash:


Other:
(Bulk Up)
(Contrary)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/144.png
(Agility)
https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/icon/062.png
(Belly Drum)
(Power-Up Punch)
(Curse)
(Dragon Dance)
(Iron Defense)
(Acid Armor)
(Barrier)
(Rock Polish)
(Z-Me First)
(Unburden)

Trick Room
Trick Room Setters:



Trick Room Abusers:

S-Rank

S
  • :Eelektross: Eelektross
  • :Jellicent: Jellicent
  • :torterra: Torterra
A-Rank

A+

  • :drampa: Drampa
  • :Gurdurr: Gurdurr
  • :Kangaskhan: Kangaskhan
  • :Mudsdale: Mudsdale
  • :Primeape: Primeape
  • :Regirock: Regirock
  • :Silvally-Fairy: Silvally-Fairy
  • :Simisear: Simisear
  • :Victreebel: Victreebel
A
  • :Aurorus: Aurorus
  • :Carracosta: Carracosta
  • :Cryogonal: Cryogonal
  • :Dodrio: Dodrio
  • :Ferroseed: Ferroseed
  • :Lanturn: Lanturn
  • :musharna: Musharna
  • :oricorio pom-pom: Oricorio Pom-Pom
  • :Qwilfish: Qwilfish
  • :Sandslash-Alola: Sandslash-Alola
  • :Skuntank: Skuntank
  • :stoutland: Stoutland
A-
  • :Abomasnow: Abomasnow
  • :absol: Absol
  • :combusken: Combusken
  • :crabominable: Crabominable
  • :Leafeon: Leafeon
  • :Ludicolo: Ludicolo
  • :Omastar: Omastar
  • :Oricorio-Sensu: Oricorio-Sensu
  • :Raichu-Alola: Raichu-Alola
  • :Rotom-Frost: Rotom-Frost
B-Rank

B+

  • :Articuno: Articuno
  • :Audino: Audino
  • :clefairy: Clefairy
  • :Golurk: Golurk
  • Jynx
  • :lurantis: Lurantis
  • :lycanroc: Lycanroc
  • :Persian-Alola: Persian-Alola
  • :Sableye: Sableye
  • :Swanna: Swanna
  • :Tangela: Tangela
B
  • :Aggron: Aggron
  • :Altaria: Altaria
  • :Bronzor: Bronzor
  • :Carbink: Carbink
  • :Claydol: Claydol
  • :floatzel: Floatzel
  • :Gastrodon: Gastrodon
  • :Haunter: Haunter
  • :hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
  • :Kabutops: Kabutops
  • :Metang: Metang
  • :Pinsir: Pinsir
  • :Silvally-Dragon: Silvally-Dragon
  • :silvally: Silvally-Poison
  • :Type_Null: Type: Null
B-
  • :Kadabra: Kadabra
  • :Kecleon: Kecleon
  • :poliwrath: Poliwrath
  • :Simisage: Simisage
  • :Spiritomb: Spiritomb
  • :Throh: Throh
  • :Turtonator: Turtonator
  • :Zangoose: Zangoose
C-Rank

C+

  • :Dugtrio-Alola: Dugtrio-Alola
  • :Jumpluff: Jumpluff
  • :liepard: Liepard
  • :Mawile: Mawile
  • :Raticate-Alola: Raticate-Alola
  • :Regice: Regice
  • :Roselia: Roselia
  • :scyther: Scyther
  • :Shiftry: Shiftry
  • :Silvally-Water: Silvally-Water
  • :Ursaring: Ursaring
C
  • :Bellossom: Bellossom
  • :Camerupt: Camerupt
  • :Golem: Golem
  • :Muk: Muk
  • :Sawsbuck: Sawsbuck
  • :Servine: Servine
  • :Simipour: Simipour
  • :Stunfisk: Stunfisk
  • :Volbeat: Volbeat
C-
  • :Cradily: Cradily
  • :Drifblim: Drifblim
  • :Granbull: Granbull
  • :Munchlax: Munchlax
  • :Natu: Natu
  • :Pyukumuku: Pyukumuku
  • :Rampardos: Rampardos
  • :Shiinotic: Shiinotic
D-Rank

D
  • :Beheeyem: Beheeyem
  • :Bouffalant: Bouffalant
  • :Ditto: Ditto
  • :Electrode: Electrode
  • :exeggutor: Exeggutor
  • :Mr_Mime: Mr. Mime
  • :Pawniard: Pawniard
  • :Probopass: Probopass
  • :Shuckle: Shuckle
  • :Silvally Ghost: Silvally-Ghost
  • :Smeargle: Smeargle
E-Rank

Everything else

Format:
Stat / Pokémon / Base / Nature / EVs / Boost



180872
Tier S
1560700124561.png


400+ Speed
687 / Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +4
627 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
578 / Leafeon, Sawsbuck / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +2
572 / Combusken / +Spe / 252 / +3
568 / Kabutops / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +2
545 / Bellossom / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +3
538 / Articuno, Pinsir, Qwilfish / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +2
525 / Dodrio, Raichu-A / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
524 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
522 / Combusken / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +3
518 / Drifblim, Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
508 / Manectric, Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
502 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +2
496 / Simisear / 101 / +Spe / 252 / +1
486 / Swanna / 98 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 176 / +2
478 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Haunter, Jynx, Primeape / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
469 / Oricorio (All forms) / 93 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +2
458 / Combusken, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
439 / Skuntank / 84 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Electrode / 150 / +Spe / 252 / 0
436 / Bellossom, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +2
426 / Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / +2
418 / Combusken, Omastar/ 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2



1560700192422.png
Tier A
180873


300-399 Speed
398 / Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / +2
388 / Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
376 / Turtonator / 36 / +Spe / 252 / +2
376 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +1
361 / Floatzel, Persian-A / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Abomasnow / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / +2
356 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 48 / +2
355 / Lycanroc / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
354 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
350 / Dodrio, Dugtrio-A, Jumpluff, Raichu-A / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Combusken / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
342 / Liepard / 106 / +Spe / 252 / 0
339 / Cryogonal, Kadabra, Manectric, Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Simisear, Simisage, Simipour / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
327 / Bellossom / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +1
326 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / +2
324 / Basculin, Swanna / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Haunter, Jynx, Leafeon, Primeape, Silvally (All forms) / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Oricorio (All forms) / 93 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Kangaskhan, Mr. Mime, Zangoose / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0



Tier B


200-299 Speed
298 / Rotom-F / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
297 / Oricorio-G / 93 / +Spe / 192 / 0
295 / Pinsir, Qwilfish / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
293 / Skuntank / 84 / +Spe / 252 / 0
291 / Servine / 83 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Leafeon, Sawsbuck / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 0
284 / Kabutops, Shiftry, Stoutland / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
279 / Kangaskhan, Zangoose / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
278 / Raticate-A / 77 / +Spe / 252 / 0
276 / Hitmonchan / 76 / +Spe / 252 / 0
273 / Absol, Smeargle / 75 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Articuno, Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
262 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
260 / Silvally-Water / 95 / Neutral / 136 / 0
259 / Drifblim, Kabutops, Shiftry, Stoutland / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
253 / Raticate-A / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Sandslash-A / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Absol / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 176 / 0
240 / Abomasnow, Pawniard / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
236 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
229 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Combusken, Golurk, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
220 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 96 / 0
220 / Articuno / 85 / Neutral / 56 / 0
220 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 136 / 0
220 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 128 / 0
220 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 200 / 0
220 / Poliwrath / 70 / +Spe / 96 / 0
219 / Abomasnow, Jellicent, Pawniard / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Aggron, Bellossom, Mawile, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Kangaskhan / 90 / Neutral / 0 / 0
215 / Aurorus / 58 / Neutral / 252 / 0
211 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / 0
209 / Golurk, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Golem / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 0
203 / Crabominable / 43 / +Spe / 252 / 0




1560700251069.png
Tier C
180874


100-199 Speed
199 / Aggron, Mawile, Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
189 / Golem, Granbull / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
188 / Turtonator / 36 / +Spe / 252 / 0
186 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 0 / 0
185 / Crabominable / 43 / Neutral / 252 / 0
180 / Natu / 70 / Neutral / 16 / 0
179 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / 0
178 / Sandslash-A / 65 / Neutral / 48 / 0
176 / Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 24 / 0
171 / Bouffalant / 55 / Neutral / 100 / 0
171 / Drampa / 36 / Neutral / 252 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
164 / Jellicent / 60 / Neutral / 32 / 0
163 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 0
158 / Poliwrath / 70 / -Spe / 0 / 0
157 / Volbeat / 85 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
156 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
154 / Type: Null / 59 / Neutral / 0 / 0
148 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
145 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 36 / 0
144 / Gourgeist-Super / 54 / Neutral / 0 / 0
137 / Drampa / 36 / Neutral / 116 / 0
137 / Granbull / 45 / Neutral / 44 / 0
137 / Kecleon, Probopass / 40 / Neutral / 84 / 0
137 / Shiinotic / 30 / Neutral / 137 / 0
136 / Audino, Carbink, Eelektross, Mawile, Metang, Muk, Regirock, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
126 / Golem, Granbull, Lurantis, Throh, / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
122 / Crabominable, Cradily / 43 / Neutral / 0 / 0
122 / Eelektross / 50 / -Spe / 0 / 0
116 / Gurdurr, Kecleon, Probopass / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
106 / Clefairy, Mudsdale, Spiritomb / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
103 / Ursaring / 55 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0
100 / Stunfisk / 32 / Neutral / 0 / 0



:Spiritomb:Tier D:Spiritomb:

99- Speed
95 / Spiritomb / 35 / -Spe / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Carbink / 50 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
90 / Carracosta / 32 / -Spe / 0 / 0
82 / Bronzor / 23 / Neutral / 0 / 0
81 / Crabominable / 43 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
76 / Beheeyem / 40 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
69 / Drampa / 36 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
56 / Musharna / 29 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV
46 / Pyukumuku, Shuckle / 5 / Neutral / 0 / 0
22 / Ferroseed / 10 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0 IV

(Click Team for Importable!)



Specs Drampa Bulky Offense [made by LordST]


" This is a fairly straight forward team that has a few adaptions to some of the meta developments over last PUPL. A standard Jelli Muds core to cover your Fighting/Normal/Fires with Rindo Jelli there to eat Grass Knots from Simisear as well as Grass STABs from Torterra and Leafeon in order to get a Wisp off. Poisonvally covers Leafeon and Victreebel and gives you useful utility in a pivot move, absorbing tspikes for your defensive core, and hazard control. Multi Attack is used in place of the standard (probably shouldnt be standard anymore) Toxic or Poison Fang in order to actually check SD Fairyvally and CM Clefairy. Scarf Frostom is the Freeze Dry resist and Ground immune as well as the necessary Oricorio check. Specs Drampa and Z Fire Simisear form an incredibly potent offensive core that can easily take advantage of any passive mons such as Cryo, Bronzor, Clef, etc. Protect is a very useful tech on Simisear to protect from Kanga Fake Out and to scout vs scarf revenge killers such as Primeape or Snowslash. This team plays very simply and I believe is an accurate representation of where the meta is after last PUPL. It can struggle a bit vs Psychics, some less common offensive waters, and some flying types, but there are outs vs anything. I think this team could probably replace my current sample team as its a bit outdated." - LordST



Altaria-Torterra Balance [made by Ktütverde]


"The squad is generic enough to showcase metagame staples and at the same time hasn't been used by anyone else because I added some unexpected "spicy" mons like CB Primeape, physical Eel and Bulky Z-Move Altaria. This particular team is designed to make up for the lack of representation of toptiers such as: Eelektross, Defensive Jellicent, Choice Scarf Sandslash-Alola and Primeape. Whereas Altaria -although not an amazing mon in itself- is one of the best "niche" glue thanks to its ability to take on both torterra and simisear as well as Victreebel to a lesser extent (and provide defog support+several key resistances like fighting and grass). So here is this quite generic team where I simply put together great mons sharing great synergy and providing enough redundancy to be easy to pilot by anyone willing to learn gen7 PU." - Ktütverde



Triple U-turn Offense [made by tlenit]


"Super simple offense built around triple u-turn core having access of gaining the momentum and allowing you to bring in the special breakers.
Nothing too fancy - nothing too much. From t1 you are capable of forcing your opponent out with sensu and primeape - depending what you prefer leading after seeing opponents team. Timid drampa lets you outspeed adamant crabominable and slowers like defensive jellicents. Simisear plays the faster secondary special atk breaker role and its Grassium Z allows it to touch lanturn, jellicent and carbink way better.
Standard regirock for rocks with slight investment on spdef side to help out the team overall. Silvally Fairy and Sensu regains the lost momentum after drampa dropping a draco and oppo's mon without problem - also these two keeps the average speed tiering in control very well. Standard scarf primeape works as a late game cleaner with its respective close combat stab. Ape lets you spam u-turn as well and keeps the u-turn loop up.
The team has access to change stuff around whenever you feel comfy enough with it. The sixth slot aka. secondary breaker slot can be changed around to test your own mons without problem. This squad has saw the latest big tournaments (snake, circuit, seasonal etc.) with good success and including the modified 6th slot changes." - tlenit



Grass Spam [made by MZ]


This is a fairly straightforward team centered around pivoting and breaking with Victreebel before cleaning up with Leafeon. Mudsdale+Eelektross+Jelllicent is as standard of a defensive core as they come with a bit of Pursuit on there to help out with certain rare threats like Haunter. Techs such as Close Combat Mudsdale and specially defensive Eelektross also make matchups such as Ferroseed and Abomasnow a bit more workable.

Absol + Victreebel Bulky Offense [made by Specs]


Volt-Turn with some of the strongest breakers the tier has to offer in CB Absol and Z-Victreebel. Very straight forward to play, get them in as much as possible. Regirock, Lanturn, and Silvally-Fairy defend against most of the meta, Primeape forces out a lot and allows you to get in your breakers more often. Some threats to the build are opposing Victrebel's and Simisear though they aren't unplayable with good positioning via consistent offensive pressure. This isn't the most consistent team ever, but it's effective and has had success with new players. Enjoy! - Specs
 
Last edited:
DPP is the best meta, change my mind

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/gabite.gif

Gabite @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw

Dragon/Ground typing means that conventional resists to one of your STABs are gonna get blown back by the other. Earthquake is strong enough to break through something as bulky as Quagsire after a minimal amount of chip damage, and Outrage is a nuke even against resists like Metang. Also outspeeds Victreebel by 1 point with an Adamant nature, which is pretty cool.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/lapras.gif

Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Another choiced wallbreaker, Lapras preys on teams that count on Bellosom as a blanket special wall. Ice STAB is just really difficult to switch into in general, and Lapras has the bulk to take a hit or two while it's doing its job. The stealth rock weakness is unfortunate, but it's nothing that clever Taunt usage or offensive pressure to prevent rocks in the first place can't fix.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/misdreavus.gif

Misdreavus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt

A set intended for use in the lead slot, Focus Sash Misdreavus takes advantage of the ever-common Purugly lead. Taunt and Will-O-Wisp ensure that Misdreavus has utility in almost any lead matchup, denying hazards from Glalie, Relicanth, and Monferno or cripping Purugly. Also comes with the nifty benefit of drawing in and smacking frailer mons like Magmar that expect a bulky Misdreavus.
 
Last edited:

UberSkitty

cuz I got banned from gen 8
is a Contributor to Smogon
Here's the Speed Tiers for DPP PU (Tell me if I'm missing anything)

Format:
Stat / Pokémon / Base / Nature / Evs / Boost / IVs (if not 31)

1606784147122.png
400+ Speed
1606784148842.png

836 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +6
720 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +6
720 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +4
717 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +4
687 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +4
655 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +3
627 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
600 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +3
572 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +3
540 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +4
524 / Mantine / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
524 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
522 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2 / 30
508 / Kadabra / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
498 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +2
597 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +3
492 / Fearow / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +2
478 / Mantine, Victreebel, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
476 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2 / 30
475 / Xatu / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
463 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
462 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30
459 / Zangoose / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
442 / Golduck, Pinsir / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
442 / Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +2
433 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / +1
430 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / +1
428 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
426 / Gastly / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / +2
414 / Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 252 / +2
403 / Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +1

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300-400 Speed
1606784592089.png

393 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1
392 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
378 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / +2
361 / Sneasel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +2
360 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +1
358 / Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2
355 / Purugly / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
339 / Electabuzz, Kadabra, Rapidash, Lopunny / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Raichu, Regigigas, Fearow / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Xatu, Grovyle / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Magmar / 93 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Murkrow, Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Golbat, Zangoose, Mr. Mime, Vigoroth / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0

1606784605605.png
200-300 Speed
1606784607572.png

295 / Golduck, Pinsir, Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / 0
287 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / 0
284 / Glalie, Gastly / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
264 / Golbat / 90 / +Spe / 96 / 0
262 / Mantine, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
261 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0 / 30
354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
251 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Mantine, Victreebe, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
238 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0 / 30
236 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
229 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
223 / Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Metang / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 216 / 0
211 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / 0
209 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 216 / 0
206 / Misdreavus / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0
200 / Gabite / 82 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783246953.png
100-200 Speed
1606783248108.png

199 / Metang / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
197 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 124 / 0
196 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
189 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
180 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / 0
180 / Armaldo / 45 / Neutral / 216 / 0
179 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
177 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 44 / 0
176 / Politoed, Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Flareon / 65 / +Neutral / 0 / 0
164 / Regigigas / 100 / +Spe / 252 / -2
156 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
140 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 84 / 0
136 / Bellossom, Metang, Muk, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
130 / Solrock / 70 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0
126 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
118 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / -2
116 / Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783187397.png
0-99 Speed
1606783188954.png

96 / Parasect / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
91 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -1
76 / Torkoal / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
68 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -2
54 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -3


This has been done all month IDK why I didn't post sooner :v
 

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:gs/Hitmonchan:
746A8277-7FA8-4540-868E-37EF80AE91D9.png
Hitmonchan in GSC PU
8A8FE6F8-7772-4F83-BF89-11D09382DBB1.png


Hello all, today I would like to bring something up about GSC PU that has been a major factor in the tier for the last 2 months, Hitmonchan. Ever since it was found out that High Jump Kick and Body Slam were, in fact, not illegal on Hitmonchan and it could run a set consisting of High Jump Kick/Body Slam/Rest/Sleep Talk, it had in my opinion, shaped the tier way too much around itself and I believe Hitmonchan is unhealthy for GSC PU.

There are very few reliable switch-ins to Hitmonchan that can actually threaten it in return, with the notable ones pretty much being limited to Drowzee, Mantine, Slowpoke, RestTalk Golbat, and Gastly. There are many other Pokemon that resist Hitmonchan’s High Jump Kick, but aren’t great switch ins due to being ruined by paralysis from Body Slam, such as Venomoth, Tangela, and Beedrill. Hitmonchan can almost freely spam Body Slam in games due to the resists to Body Slam being smacked hard by High Jump Kick. Hitmonchan has an absolutely terrific pairing with Murkrow, who removes almost all of the natural switchins to both Body Slam and HJK because of Pursuit. It also appreciates a Pokemon that can switch in and threaten Magcargo. Hitmonchan is largely too good not to use on teams due to how much of the tier it handles, checking Pokemon such as Elekid, Furret, and Seadra. It warps the tier around it in an unhealthy way, Hitmonchan wars are a very common sight, with the matchup being dependent on luck from Sleep Talk rolls or crits to break through the opposing Hitmonchan. Hitmonchan can even try other options such as Curse or Agility to setup its own late game sweep with how easily it spread paralysis.

Id really like to hear opinions on this, as I believe Hitmonchan to be completely unhealthy for GSC PU in it’s current state. Furret is also an issue, but I feel so to a lesser degree. It does give some good benefits to the tier, such as checking dangerous mons, but if it was to leave the tier it wouldn’t be that bad for the tier, since I assume Hitmontop could do similar roles to it(without Body Slam).​
 

Heracross2.0

Man, what a bunch'a jokers!
is a Pre-Contributor
Hi there! I'm finally out of all cups in PU Classic, and I do have to say they were all pretty fun. DPP PU was a new entity for me, but I found it enjoyable and not unlike BW PU, which is a tier I enjoyed. Not here to spout anything yet, just wanted to post some sets I enjoyed.

Gen 4
:dp/monferno:
Infernal (Monferno) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Mach Punch

Is BandFerno a thing? I don't see it on the VR so it probably isn't. I really like BandFerno because it hits hard, punishes Steels like Metang for even daring to switch into Purugly, and unlike other Fire-types, is neutral to Rocks, giving it solid longevity against offense. It's also a great cleaner because a Banded Mach Punch hits pretty hard and the Fire/Fighting combo tears through many weakened defensive cores. Next time I play, I wanna try out Specs since Fire/Fighting + Hidden Power Electric covers pretty much everything.

:dp/bronzor:
Bronze (Bronzor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I wanted a Steel that didn't autolose to EQ Metang. Enter Bronzor. While it doesn't get Psywave this gen, leaving it with EQ that doesn't do much even to other Steels, it's still a great staying presence and a solid check to mons like Purugly, Bellossom (HP Fire doesn't 3hko from defensive sets), and Rhydon. I could probably iron out a few flaws to the set, like which attacking move it has and Rocks -> Toxic if you don't have Rocks on your team already, but it's a nice deviation from Metang since it got boring fast.

Gen 5
:bw/huntail:
Hunting (Huntail) @ White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Surf

Huntail is a super underrated sweeper, and I'm surprised it isn't on the VR. Water is a very good offensive typing in the tier (as shown by BrokePour), and Huntail has all the coverage it needs to wash teams away. I usually pair this with Screens Natu or Zebra so it set up easier on their switch ins, but its high Defense usually lets it set up on weaker physical mons such as Sneasel or Relicanth without Toxic. Fun mon, should be on the VR, and give it a try.

Gen 6
:xy/onix:
Brock (Onix) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunny Day
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Taunt

Yeah, Golem is probably better as a Sun lead, but I like going for the unpredictable option more often. Plus, Onix does have a few things going for it over Golem. Taunt is super nice since most people are going to try to set Rocks on Onix, and a better Speed tier means it can outspeed stuff like offensive Rocks Mawile, which is something over Golem. Not much to say here, just a funny Sun lead.

:xy/frogadier:
Frog (Frogadier) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

Rain teams really, really, REALLY hate Lumenion from my experience, so why not slap a Lumenion lure on a Rain team? I like tricking people into think it's another ho-hum Specs mon because of Expert Belt not giving away the set like Life Orb would, but hitting Lumenion with HP Elec (especially on the switch in) is absolutely amazing and puts the opposing team into a horrible position where they have to play much more conservative in order to make sure my backups like Specs Gorebyss and Band Floatzel don't sweep.

:xy/lickilicky:
Lick A Little (Lickilicky) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Was going to use this against Ktu in g1, but chickened out and went the super-safe option in Muk (which ended up costing me). I realized that Ghosts were very rare in ORAS PU apart from Misdreavus, so I went with Curse Lick because it could eventually break past Steels unlike Muk. Body Slam lets it spread Para on switch ins, which is super good in this gen and makes up for the Speed drops Lick will be getting.

Gen 7
:sm/abomasnow:
OBAMA (Abomasnow) (M) @ Eject Button
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Blizzard
- Earthquake
- Focus Blast

Hail lead. Entire idea behind it is to gain momentum against offense teams, and when it can't do that, it tries to kill itself with Wood Hammer. You can probably go even further and minimize IVs for HP, Defense, and Special Defense so it dies that much faster, but I'm too lazy to do that and haven't tested it out yet. Fun mon on a fun team.

Thanks for reading!
 
I've been trying to play a lot of BW PU now that the meta has changed with Throh and Goth gone. A ton of stuff got better and a few things got worse so I'll lay out some of the things I've noticed with recent trends in these nominations.

Rises:
A+ to S: I feel like this one has been needed for a while. Simipour is still the tier's best Choice Scarfer and is super splashable if you need a strong revenge killer. Throh leaving gave it one less bulky mon it has to deal with and the tier having the ability to be more offense based allows it to fit on more teams. Sub+NP sets are also still godly and can sweep teams that usually have good prep for Scarf.
A+ to top A+/S: Shiftry has become a huge threat without Throh. Specs sets have virtually no switch-ins if it can hit a Focus Blast against an opposing Klang and SD sets are super strong with Nature Power being Earthquake in gen 5. Even if it's just a move up to the top of A+, it still is more threatening than Jumpluff imo.
A to A+: This has been getting a lot more usage lately as well. As a rocker, it's really solid being the best one with recovery. As a sweeper however, Torterra really appreciates Throh being gone. Double dance or other offensive sets can more easily fit Stone Edge to hit Jumpluff, Dodrio, and Swanna. It's really good right now and can put in a ton of work in most matchups.
A to A+: I'm a big Monferno fan but with people using fewer Fighting resists and not being trapped by Goth anymore, Monferno really has a chance to shine. It's still threatened by things like Simipour but that also doesn't like taking a +2 Iron Fist Mach Punch. I'd still put it right below Scraggy in terms of being splashable but it's a great sweeper and will get at least one kill 9 times out of 10.
A- to A+: Scraggy is high key one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Dark/Fighting has so few abusable weaknesses and Scraggy can set up on so much of the tier and sweep with an unresisted STAB combo. Especially with Throh gone, this deserves a boost.
A- to A: The versatility this thing has makes it really really good. Scarf is an excellent revenge killer, taking care of Zebstrika, non-Scarf Simis, and other fast mons like that. Band is a super strong breaker thanks to Dragon and Ground having perfect coverage. And defensive sets are good rockers that add Rough Skin chip and phazing to help support a team.
B+ to A-: This has become more than just a niche pick like it used to be. Honestly, all Dark Pokemon probably got a lot better with Throh's ban but Zweilous in particular can spam its super strong Crunches and Outrages with almost no drawback. Klang and Mawile don't like taking Superpowers and that's really all it needs. It's held back by its Speed and Hustle obviously hurts its accuracy but it's still a really good pick.
B+ to A/A-: Bronzor walls so much shit it's funny. While it does struggle against some stuff like Monferno, Zweilous, Scraggy, and Shiftry, it also almost completely walls things like Jumpluff, Torterra, Dodrio, and Beheeyem making it a really solid defensive mon. Its EVs can also be personalized to fit whatever role you need it to on a team and Psywave prevents it from being too passive of a mon.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-: Every rocker beats this anyway and it's really fallen off. Preventing rocks is nice, but A+ is way too high for this at the moment when it's so passive.
A to A-: Rain and sun aren't a big enough issue for Cloud Nine to be a big enough niche and in almost every other aspect, the duck is outclassed by Simipour.
A to A-: Very hard to find a reason to run this. It's faster than the Simis but being weak to rocks and your two main attacking moves having really harsh recoil in a tier with terrible removal options is not good for it.

I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I missed and the whole VR probably needs an overhaul if we're going to sort everything by real viability but this should be a decent start for most things! BW is still fun and very playable and enjoyable, pls use Scraggy so I can nom it to S-rank eventually.
 
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Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Community Leader Alumnus
I've been trying to play a lot of BW PU now that the meta has changed with Throh and Goth gone. A ton of stuff got better and a few things got worse so I'll lay out some of the things I've noticed with recent trends in these nominations.

Rises:
A+ to S: I feel like this one has been needed for a while. Simipour is still the tier's best Choice Scarfer and is super splashable if you need a strong revenge killer. Throh leaving gave it one less bulky mon it has to deal with and the tier having the ability to be more offense based allows it to fit on more teams. Sub+NP sets are also still godly and can sweep teams that usually have good prep for Scarf.
A+ to top A+/S: Shiftry has become a huge threat without Throh. Specs sets have virtually no switch-ins if it can hit a Focus Blast against an opposing Klang and SD sets are super strong with Nature Power being Earthquake in gen 5. It still is more threatening than Jumpluff imo.
A to A+: This has been getting a lot more usage lately as well. As a rocker, it's really solid being the best one with recovery. As a sweeper however, Torterra really appreciates Throh being gone. Double dance or other offensive sets can more easily fit Stone Edge to hit Jumpluff, Dodrio, and Swanna. It's really good right now and can put in a ton of work in most matchups.
A to A+: I'm a big Monferno fan but with people using fewer Fighting resists and not being trapped by Goth anymore, Monferno really has a chance to shine. It's still threatened by things like Simipour but that also doesn't like taking a +2 Iron Fist Mach Punch. I'd still put it right below Scraggy in terms of being splashable but it's a great sweeper and will get at least one kill 9 times out of 10.
A- to A+: Scraggy is high key one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Dark/Fighting has so few abusable weaknesses and Scraggy can set up on so much of the tier and sweep with an unresisted STAB combo. Especially with Throh gone, this deserves a boost.
A- to A: The versatility this thing has makes it really really good. Scarf is an excellent revenge killer, taking care of Zebstrika, non-Scarf Simis, and other fast mons like that. Band is a super strong breaker thanks to Dragon and Ground having perfect coverage. And defensive sets are good rockers that add Rough Skin chip and phazing to help support a team.
B+ to A-: This has become more than just a niche pick like it used to be. Honestly, all Dark Pokemon probably got a lot better with Throh's ban but Zweilous in particular can spam its super strong Crunches and Outrages with almost now drawback. Klang and Mawile don't like taking Superpowers and that's really all it needs. It's held back by its Speed and Hustle obviously hurts its accuracy but it's still a really good pick.
B+ to A/A-: Bronzor walls so much shit it's funny. While it does struggle against some stuff like Monferno, Zweilous, Scraggy, and Shiftry, it also almost completely walls things like Jumpluff, Torterra, Dodrio, and Beheeyem making it a really solid defensive mon. Its EVs can also be personalized to fit whatever role you need it to on a team and Psywave prevents it from being too passive of a mon.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-: Every rocker beats this anyway and it's really fallen off. Preventing rocks is nice, but A+ is way too high for this at the moment when it's so passive.
A to A-: Rain and sun aren't a big enough issue for Cloud Nine to be a big enough niche and in almost every other aspect, the duck is outclassed by Simipour.
A to A-: Very hard to find a reason to run this. It's faster than the Simis but being weak to rocks and your two main attacking moves having really harsh recoil in a tier with terrible removal options is not good for it.

I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I missed and the whole VR probably needs an overhaul if we're going to sort everything by real viability but this should be a decent start for most things! BW is still fun and very playable and enjoyable, pls use Scraggy so I can nom it to S-rank eventually.
Been wanting to throw in my 2 cents and now I have the time! I agree with most of these but I figured I'd throw in some thoughts. Planning a large VR overhaul once classic is over too.

:bw/simipour: A+ to S: 100% agree. I would go so far as to say that Simipour is the best mon in the format. At the very least, its impact has no rival. People aren't running Mantine for Swanna, after all. A lot of the new choices for glue go back to Simipour being the best revenge killer and arguably the best wallbreaker as well. Solid S mon.

:bw/Shiftry: A+ to S: I have to disagree with this one, I think it is either good where it is or worth a very small drop to A. While I completely agree that Specs Dark Pulse is crazy free, Shiftry can prove to be clunky to use. It barely provides anything in terms of cohesion and thanks to its iffy typing it can be sometimes hard to bring in. So while yes, it is an excellent mon for checking a lot, it can be difficult to bring into a position to do said checking. I have it on a sample (that im going to replace) so I do think its definitely good, but overall its a tough mon to bring in that adds little to the team besides its amazing wallbreaking. The upper cuts of the meta in A+ are a high bar and Shiftry doesn't quite get in imo.

The rest of your rises are great though...yes, even the Bronzor one.

Here are two from me:

:bw/tentacool: B to A-: One of my favorite things about Pokemon metagames in particular are the unintended side-effects of certain shifts. One of the big ones from the most recent shift was how the surge of Simipour made hazard control easier...because now Simipour's solid counter of Tentacool has plenty of opportunities to come in and demand to spin. There are also other factors such as Vileplume slowly starting to lose popularity (I'll get there) that make Tentacool and its assets (like Toxic Spikes) a lot more valuable and viable as well. Overall I would not go so far as to say that Tentacool belongs on most teams. However, put it on a balance or semistall team and it can pull its weight pretty well.

:bw/swoobat: B+ to A+: Friends, it is time. It is time to admit that Specs Swoobat does work. A lot of work. When we lost Throh and more importantly Circle Throw, a lot of teams suddenly needed some way to deal with setup mons. Specs Swoobat is here to punish close to all of them. Specs Swoobat also checks a lot of the up-and-comers like Monferno surprisingly well. Combine all of that with being the 3rd fastest unboosted mon in the tier with U-Turn and a big enough movepool that you can choose the targets to neutralize and you are left with a genuine staple mon. This is the hill I am dying on apparently.


How about some drops:

:bw/natu: A+ to A: Natu is in the weird position that it is very good at its job. Natu is so good that the entire hazard meta shifted heavily to beat just Natu. So now Natu isn't as good. It is bad because it was so good that everything moved to counter it so it is now countered. My point is that Natu is still well worth the positioning in A. A drop is warranted I agree with that, but to A- is overkill. I have actually started using Reflect on Natu as well, that way it supports the team and beats some of those rockers more consistently.

:bw/vileplume: A- to B+: The Sleep ban was hard for Vileplume. While Vileplume does still do a decent amount of support work, it is notably worse without the Sleep kill in the back. Now other support Grass mons like Torterra and even Meganium are starting to make their mark above Vileplume. One of Vileplume's biggest niches is gone over its competition, so a drop is in order.

:bw/jumpluff: A+ to A-: In the same vein as Vileplume, losing Sleep hurt Jumpluff a lot. The difference is that Jumpluff still has a decent amount of positives in its camp to warrant use. The fast U-Turn is fantastic, and Jumpluff still has that great coverage and nuke of an Acrobatics. A lot of people just replaced Sleep Powder with either Encore, Stun Spore, or Substitute and the support and SD sets still work fine. Even so, its drop in popularity and its success that can be seen from its recent replays is a sure sign of Jumpluff falling from grace. A+ no more.


Like I said at the top, I am planning a whole revamp of the VR, but for now I am grateful for the amount of BW PU being played. This metagame might have been a bit shaky at first, but I think by this point the recent bans have once again produced a more diverse and enjoyable metagame.
 

Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Community Leader Alumnus
Gen5 PU VR Revamp

BW PU has finally finished a much-needed overhaul of the VR. Thanks to SergioRules DnB EviGaro SBPC and Lilburr for the help! There are so many changes that I will not name them all, but here are some highlights:
  • About 20 mons were unranked. Most notable among them was Graveler, who fell from B+ to UR. I am certain that this will not cause any confusion.
  • Monferno has been added to S rank. Recent meta trends have leaned into it heavily, so the new placement is well earned.
  • Purugly has shot up from being UR to A. Dwebble also did something similar, now residing in A-.
  • D Rank has been re-added, and a good number of mons tumbled down as a result. However this list is still smaller thanks to the large amount of unranking that was done.

You can check out the VR change here for more details. There are some mons I definitely want to shift around still, but the VR largely looks representative of the metagame. Even so, feel free to offer adjustments. This has been a long time coming.
 
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Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Community Leader Alumnus
Gen4 PU Resource Update!

DPP PU has enjoyed a lot of play recently and looks to get more, so the resources have been updated for the times. Samples are updated, check out the raw paste to easily put them all into your teambuilder.

The VR was also updated, with many changes, special thanks to Specs Aliss and zS for the help! A good portion of these changes are small changes of a mon going up or down a single subrank but there are a few that have made considerable jumps. Come take a look!

Rises:
Relicanth A+ to S
Gabite A- to A
Glalie A- to A
Misdreavus A- to A+
Muk A- to S
Monferno B+ to A-
Zangoose B+ to A+
Murkrow B+ to A+
Armaldo B+ to A
Tangela B+ to A+
Lapras B to B+
Machoke B to A-
Quagsire B to A
Glaceon B- to A

Drops:
Mantine S to A
Electabuzz A+ to A
Pinsir A+ to A
Torkoal A to A-
Politoed A to B+
Whiscash A to B-
Xatu A to A-
Crawdaunt A to B+
Golbat A- to B+
Camerupt A- to B+
Pelipper A- to B
Sableye B to UR
Parasect B to C
Kecleon B- to C
Lopunny C to UR
Gastly C to UR
Vigoroth C to UR

Additions:
Grovyle UR to C
Slaking UR to C
Seviper UR to B-
Swalot UR to C
Arbok UR to C


ADV PU is also due to have its VR updated, but technical problems have stopped it thus far. I will get it eventually though, I'm sure.
 
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Wingless

yesterday was better
is a Tiering Contributor
It's probably a bad idea to do this in the middle of PUPL, but eh whatever. The VR could use an update so i'm going to write down the couple of nominations that i feel more strongly about, or the larger jumps that would be imo warranted.

:torterra: -> A+
Torterra is fairly versatile but none of its sets are S-rank worthy. It's not nearly as splashable as Jellicent, it's not nearly as effective at its job as Eelektross, and it definitely isn't some meta-defining top threat for which you'd have to use three checks on every team. Its best sets are probably SD ones, with or without rocks - it's the best offensive SR setter, although the wallbreaking part is a bit matchup dependent. Defensive SR sets are either overshadowed by RegiMuds or don't really check all that much, especially now when most Eels run U-turn. Band and RP are *fine*... all Torterra's sets have the same common checks, so the versatility does not make it more dangerous, and no matter what it does, it's not splashable/good enough to justify S-rank.

:gurdurr: -> A-
A+ Gurdurr is in the past. Gurdurr has a good bit of defensive utility - dark resist, normal resist, random physical mons resist, x4 fighting-weak fast mon resist - and can be a valuable asset on some teams, but nowadays it can rarely threaten to sweep with Bulk Up, and it is somewhat harder to fit on teams.. although the thing about Gurdurr's roles and weaknesses overlapping too much with the common SD setters' that you have to use on a team may be only in my head, it is undoubtedly much less common than it used to be. There are too many hard stops that prevent it from doing anything and unlike Mesprit, they cannot be worn down with Knock Off. Usually you don't even get rid of the item. Yes- you have to prepare for Gurdurr in the teambuilder but that alone doesn't warrant any rank on the VR.

:oricorio-pom-pom: -> B
Another relic of a bygone time. One of the best Gurdurr counters, CM with Taunt can be fairly threatening if it gets a perfect matchup.. but no, there's just not much of a reason to use it on a team. It's a very iffy check to Grass and Fighting- types that either carry super-effective coverage or a secondary STAB move that prevent it from easily switching in, it's very passive and unable to threaten dangerous wallbreakers like Aurorus or Alolachu, and despite CM or bulk investment it's not that difficult to revenge kill. Oricorio has its place as a niche CM sweeper, pivot with U-turn or on banners and artworks, but it's more at the level of Aggron or Type: Null than Lanturn or Cryogonal.

:pinsir: :kecleon: :jumpluff: :golem: :muk: :cradily: :drifblim: :munchlax: 1-2 subranks down
These just get no usage in serious games and stand out as such in their respective subranks which include pokémon that are much more proven. Yeah, maybe Pinsir still works as a stall matchup fish or late-game cleaner, but is it on the level of Floatzel or Hitmonchan? The others are either "fun mons" or do something very specific and also happen to be outclassed or bad at it.


:leafeon: -> A
Z-Celebrate Leafeon is one of the best late-game cleaners now. Should be in the same rank as Carracosta. I don't know what more to say about it.

:silvally-poison: -> B+
Poisonvally has a place in the metagame as a fairly splashable and customizable Grass-type and Primeape answer that can defog, pivot, spread poison or threaten various would-be checks with super-effective moves. Still somewhat overshadowed by Skuntank but its role is different enough and it deserves a rise.

:exeggutor: -> B-
One of the top three slow wallbreakers right now. The only Pokémon that can somewhat switch into Eggy is Skuntank, but it still is chunked (and 2HKOed if you win the Pursuit 50:50) by Leaf Storm. Aside of Skunk, the combination of Leaf Storm, Psychic, Psyshock and HP Fire can demolish anything if you predict correctly. Exeggutor also has a practical Grass typing which allows it to comfortably switch into common Stealth Rock setters and defensive Jellicent and it can find opportunities to switch in and fire off Specs-boosted attacks easier than Drampa and other breakers. Pursuit weakness is obviously a large hindrance, although remember that Eggy is fairly bulky and survives weaker Pursuits from the likes of Dodrio and Primeape fairly well. The second significant disadvantage is that Exeggutor is very easily revenge killed by U-turns, making it difficult to regain momentum after getting a kill.

:mr. mime: -> C+
It has a niche, it gets usage, it does its job. Even aside of countering Drampa, Psychic/Fairy is a solid offensive typing that lets Mr. Mime be a threatening late-game cleaner with Choice Scarf or a wallbreaker with Nasty Plot, while the rich movepool gives it many utility options. D-rank is not representative of its place in the metagame.
 

roxiee

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:bw/beheeyem: S -> B+
:bw/swoobat: A- -> A
:bw/duosion: A -> A-
It's very hard to justify this in the builder over something like Swoobat because it has a really hard time getting past Scraggy which is pretty common in the tier now. I feel like Swoobat's Psychic / Flying typing and ability in Unaware to check setup sweepers just makes it better than Beheeyem. Dousion can stay in A but as long its above Beheeyem because I feel like Magic Guard and Regenerator are far better abilities than Analytic lol.

:bw/scraggy: :bw/monferno:
:bw/machoke: A- -> B-
Scraggy is something that should be accounted for in the builder heavily or else your team just folds to it, quite simple. Machoke is outclassed by Scraggy and Monferno and maybe its here as a potential throh replacement but it doesn't have Circle Throw and pure Fighting is just hard to consider for teambuilding.

:bw/shiftry: :bw/torterra:
:bw/jumpluff: A -> B+
:bw/maractus: A -> A-
:bw/simisage: A- -> B
:bw/meganium: C -> B+
:bw/victreebel: B+ -> B
Shiftry and Torterra outclasses all of these so keep that in mind lol. Jumpluff and Simisage lost the sleep moves and their performance is held back by the many resistances and faster threats. Jumpluff has a niche with the Acrobatics set but it's quite manageable to deal with but I assume it does ok against rain. Meganium can break past Klang+Stunfisk/Torterra builds which is meta rn. The fourth move on Spikes Maractus is pretty customizable (HP Fire/Ice/etc) but it has a hard time getting past Natu and it can be passive at times, but I think its still good.

:bw/rapidash: A- -> B
I think SubToxic is cool but it doesn't fall inside of this category anymore tbh. The numerous RestTalk mons, arising Tentacool usage and its pure Fire-typing makes it hard justify using. I do not feel like this falls inside of the A- ranked mons which usually relates to "usually use pokemon".

:bw/tentacool: B -> B+
Let's not underestimate a LC mon, tspikes are really good and it smashes rain teams, rapid spin is great in a non-defog tier, and its typing checks offensive waters.

:bw/emolga: :bw/murkrow: D -> B-
Emolga and Murkrow both offers nice compressing thanks to their Flying typings. Encore Emolga can check setup sweepers act as a Volt sponge and Murkrow can Haze setup swepers, check Ground-types, and Fighting-types. It fits pretty well with Abra, Marowak, and Voltbeat, all which have some flaws in the metagame.

I have other nominations and thoughts but I'm lazy and I'll get to it later.
 
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roxiee

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:bw/scraggy:

Scraggy is a lot to account for in the builder and I feel like it causes most builders to opt for Choice Band Monferno on a lot of teams or even something subpar like Encore Emolga and Haze + Brave Bird Murkrow. Scraggy's access to Bulk Up and Rest in conjunction with Shed Skin allows it to set up on a lot of defensive Pokemon like Stunfisk, Klang, Maractus, Tentacool, and Vileplume. Choice Band Dodtrio also exists but switching the frail bird in while Stealth Rocks are up can wear it down quickly whereas Scraggy can recover consecutively throughout the match.


+1 8 Atk Scraggy Drain Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Monferno: 246-289 (91.4 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Monferno Close Combat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scraggy: 252-296 (83.1 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



:bw/beheeyem: :bw/duosion:
Scraggy is also the reason why Psychic-types like Beheyeem, Duosion, and Bronzor has less tournament appearance and effective performance. Beheyeem doesn't really make sense to me if this guy remains in the tier because not only does Scraggy check it, other defensive Pokemon like Zweilous, Klang, and Munchlax can help deal with it. However, Beheyeem can affix to using Colbur Berry to check Dark-types, Trick Room + Life Orb which utilizes Analytic pretty annoyingly, and Choice Specs with Hidden Power Fighting to hit all of the aforementioned defensive Pokemon. Duosion lacks the direct firepower like Beheyeem and it feels like something that punishes poor team-building right now lol. I feel like a case can be made for Duosion as well because none of the offensive Dark-types like Signal Beam. Zweilous would pretty much be the standard on every team if Scraggy leaves to check Beheyeem and Duosion. However, Dousion only can use one set viably, and perhaps wallbreakers + bulky setup sweepers could keep it in its place.

Maybe more offensive builds should be used with Dodtrio+Monferno+Scraggy or something but these seem like hot topics at the moment and I'm curious on how everyone else feels.
 

Lilburr

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Scraggy is also the reason why Psychic-types like Beheyeem, Duosion, and Bronzor has less tournament appearance and effective performance. Beheyeem doesn't really make sense to me if this guy remains in the tier because not only does Scraggy check it, other defensive Pokemon like Zweilous, Klang, and Munchlax can help deal with it. However, Beheyeem can affix to using Colbur Berry to check Dark-types,
Ftr on Beheeyem I've been strongly advocating its brokenness for a long time now and that hasn't changed; I really appreciate you taking an interest in the tier and just wanted to explain why I feel the way I do since I felt your S -> B+ nomination was quite odd or misguided-

Beheeyem @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers / Whatever
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpA (you can do whatever with this, speed should be ran for various benchmarks)
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover

This is the set that makes Beheeyem busted. To take the list of checks you gave, here's how they fare:

+2 16+ SpA Beheeyem Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Scraggy: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Scraggy Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Colbur Berry Beheeyem: 67-79 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

+2 16+ SpA Beheeyem Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 172-204 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Colbur Berry Beheeyem: 109-129 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- 54.3% chance to 3HKO

+2 16+ SpA Beheeyem Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Klang: 174-206 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 16+ SpA Beheeyem Hidden Power Fighting vs. 136 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 146-172 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Munchlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Beheeyem: 78-93 (22 - 26.2%) -- 7.1% chance to 4HKO


Beheeyem does not have a defensive answer; and unlike something like Scraggy which also boosts up to borderline unbeatable levels, it also just happens to not let offensive Pokemon switch in to beat it at all.

16+ SpA Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simipour: 246-291 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
16+ SpA Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dodrio: 255-301 (97.7 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
16+ SpA Analytic Beheeyem Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shiftry: 264-312 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
16+ SpA Analytic Beheeyem Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zebstrika: 246-289 (84.5 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Most of these mons are actually not even able to anything back really, especially to CM. You're essentially playing a guessing game but it's always in the bem's favour because not only does it beat all the offensive mons if it happens to click its (very free) STAB but it also beats its defensive "counterplay" with a single boost.

Anyway quickfire on the other noms:

Agree with a Swoobat rise and Duosion drop, Duosion's been ass for a while tbh

Machoke should not drop significantly, it's one of the best Scraggy answers and is generally a huge pain to switch into much like Throh was. Down to the Bs somewhere is fine though

Agree w/ all the grasses except Maractus dropping, Spikes are such a fundamental part of this tier much like other BW tiers and not prepping for them will make you lose, also has phenomenal defensive utility as a tort/simi/fisk/etc answer while being an effective breaker in its own right

Yea Rapidash is borderline irrelevant and should not be this high

Tentacool and Emolga have both picked up a lot and should definitely shoot up on the VR, completely legitimate and good mons that fit on a wide variety of teams. Haven't seen much Krow but I can see the merit and I'd be okay with it going up atm since it has at least seen a few tour uses

A few things of my own:

:bw/leafeon:
B- -> wayyy higher

This Pokemon's actually really really really good and I don't see why it's so low at all tbh. Being such an effective check to stuff like Tort, SD Shiftry, Scraggy (w/ SD or Roar), Gabite, Purugly etc. is great and something that a lot of other Pokemon can't really manage. It sets itself apart from Tort in a few ways - by not being a Ground-type; not great when it comes to beating Electrics but gives it a much better matchup against stuff with Ice coverage and also lets it beat Sneasel which is hilarious - by having insanely useful utility in Roar, Knock Off, Wish and Heal Bell, which opens up some really cool structures that rely on Resting Pokemon / things without recovery like Tentacool - and through its genuinely great Speed tier that lets it easily get the jump on Ferno, Krok, Gabite, Shiftry, Vanilluxe etc. without much investment. I've been using it in friendlies a lot recently and I think it's very good and deserves significantly more respect and exploration.

:bw/clefairy:
UR -> somewhere

Clef's good! Good rocker that has 0 issues with passive damage and can check stuff like Tort, Gabite, Purugly and friends without too much effort since its physical bulk w/ Eviolite is great and you can also go spdef to handle stuff like Simis, LO Shiftry, Swoobat etc. very well but tbh it kinda does that naturally anyway

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Generally a huge nuisance to switch into since this tier is filled with Pokemon with very small HP stats, stoss does 37% to Monferno for example

Very much reliant on certain structures I think but anything with a hazard immunity probably has some viability in this tier if we're being honest.



Has some issues with opposing Monferno and specifically SubNP Simipour but I've been liking this a lot in friendlies, Sneasel's also very cool bc Pursuit is broken and Seaking was a meme that's actually not half bad, not gonna advocate for ranking it yet but give it a try imo.

Had a lot of fun playing this tier in PUPL as usual, thanks to the tlenit and Xiri for picking me up and I'm sorry that my record didn't really reflect how well I should've done for you guys. Apologies for the slight attitude issues towards the end too. I had a lot of fun prepping with you guys! Another special thank you to Eve who listens to me ramble about this tier for hours and ends and takes her own interest in it for no reason other than to make me happy, and to ppl like Bag of Trixx and SergioRules who keep it alive and give me all the test games I could ever ask for.

I'm very glad to see more people are enjoying BW and giving their takes on it; a meta like this is so unexplored and it's interesting to see different perspectives on what's good and what isn't since naturally people will have their own perceptions one way or another and will usually stick to them without going out of their comfort zone. I have a big post to make with some noms later on but for now that's all from me, ty for reading o/
 
DPP Viability Ranking Nominations

Proposed Rises


1630256312264.png
Glalie A > A+ : Glalie has been a staple in the DPP lead metagame since its inception but this tour I have come to appreciate the value it provides hyper offense and the restrictions it puts on your opponents play when kept alive after the initial spike. Partner mons that otherwise struggle to break fat walls like gastro, muk, and bellossom now have the ability to 2HKO or force recovery to gain momentum. Example mons that work very well in this partner role are Victreebell and Golduck (which have seen a great rise in usage recently). Life orb variants especially no longer have safe switch-ins due to the spike pressure and for this reason, glalie makes other mons much more viable as breakers.

(Disadvantaged) LEAD VS PURUGLY: From countless test games this tour, I have come to the conclusion that purugly is the only mon that has a favorable lead matchup vs glalie. HO needs spikes, so if glalie booms on purugly turn one to trade, you lose the central premise of the playstyle and it becomes infinitely harder to break BO if your opp has more fast mons. The purugly matchup limits glalie's turn one options to essentially ice beaming purugly for roughly 30% on the predicted taunt or switching out into a normal resist. Either way, purugly prevents the turn one spike and limits the glalie HO playstyle.

(Slight Disadvantage) LEADVS KADABRA: This is not a common lead matchup but because kadabra can taunt it first turn, the kadabra player can essentially keep spikes off the field. The problem here lies with the glalie player clicking ice beam twice, taking the psychic on turn 2 from kadabra and still being at 40% to come back in later in the match to get the spike up. There are some mind games if the kadabra player never taunts and instead psychics twice, thereby baiting glalie into ice beaming turn one and losing the lead matchup, but this interaction is still prediction based and risky for the kadabra player.

(Slight advantage) LEAD VS MACHOKE/MAGMAR: Both mons are effective at keeping spikes to one but machoke must play a 50/50 on the bullet punch switch which loses momentum for the machoke player in addition to being down a turn with one spike up on its side. Magmar is more effective but takes two turns of life or damage and the spike is still up. Both of these matchups favor the glalie HO because glalie has essentially done its job AND can switch back in if the bullet punch machoke prediction worked. Additionally, the glalie player now gains momentum on the Magmar after glalie dies.

(Complete Chaos) LEAD VS OPPOSING GLALIE: Potentially the worst (or best) matchup for glalie. Comes down to a 50/50 on taunt and one player gets minimum of 1 spike if the glalie who lost the taunt war ice beams into explosion and wins the tie to get the explosion off prior to the second spike. Minimum of 2 spikes if taunted glalie has to switch out. Minimum of 3 spikes if taunted glalie switches into a slower mon without priority. Overall, a very chance dependent matchup and potentially ends the game for one of the players on turn 1.

Final comments, glalie absolutely runs the lead DPP metagame. If you can keep it in the back once it's been taken to sash, you can switch it in on opposing rockers and get another spike up so this forces opponents to have to predict the glalie switch-in and not go for rocks, but instead outright attack. This keeps rocks off the field for HO and forces predictable counterplay.

Glalie vs Glalie deciding the game turn 1 on a taunt 50/50
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4pu-571263

PUPL match vs Skysolo with Glalie Providing Breaking Power for Golduck and Vic due to one spike being up
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4pu-575301
1630257425898.png
Gastrodon A- > A (Honestly, switch with quag) : I don't have a ton to say about gastrodon because not a lot of development has really happened with its matchups or sets. I do think that it is better than quagsire for a few reasons and I'd like to briefly talk about those. Gastro has some serious special bulk that gives it the ability to tank neutral hits from mons like missy, xatu, and Hp grass purugly where quag does not. Quag's lack of special bulk does not allow to take these neutral hits (especially from HP grass purugly) and makes it an overall worse mon for the balance playstyle. Water absorb on quag only allows it to take hits from choice locked waters as some carry HP grass for it anyway. Overall though, gastro is just one of the best mons for handling scarf relicanth, gabite, purugly, rhydon, ect. Just a staple mon and deserves to be a bit higher.

1630258048728.png
Grovyle C > A- : Grovyle has such a unique speed tier in this metagame that it has somewhat forced itself into relevance. I scoffed at it earlier last season but I've come to appreciate the ability to revenge kill most of the common base 80s and 90s mons. The only mons that can really handle it well are bellossom and golbat (due to uturn). Otherwise, Grovyle has a very impressive matchup vs muk/metang/gastro BO with a predicted sub/leech seed. The ability to outspeed Murkrow, Magmar, Gabite, and Golduck give you a pretty big reason to use this over victreebell on some teams. Additionally, grovyle shuts down leech seed tangela/muk cores which is something that can't be said for your standard vic sets, unless you're getting lucky with SD.

Second PUPL Game vs Drud (Grovyle serves as a wincon all game and outspeeds the specs duck while forcing Drud to make predictions with victreebell)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4pu-1396576361-0q3l8rkinpjnrjeqgud9gkif1j189y6pw

1630258750373.png
Sneasel B+> A- : Sneasel is one of those mons that I've always felt was criminally underrated in DPP PU. Band is clearly the best set and I think the movepool: Ice Punch, Brick Break, Ice Shard, Pursuit gives it enough breaking power and utility that it doesn't need to have a spammable dark move like punishment (ew). Brick break > low kick allows you to always OHKO purugly, however low kick allows you to 2HKO max HP Metang. The mon works well on offense that is lacking a good psychic switch-in. Sneasel provides offense the ability to neutralize problem mons like scarf xatu by preventing the mon from ever clicking psychic. Additionally, band ice punch on spikes can be a huge problem with the only comfortable switch-ins being torkoal (no rocks up), relicanth, gastrodon (kind've), and metang. Sneasel is a great late game breaker and I think its usage this PUPL demonstrated that.

Proposed Drops

1630259245884.png
Electabuzz A > B+: Electabuzz has fallen into obscurity in the current DPP metagame. Every team has a grass type, Spdef Muk BO is one of the best playstyles in the meta, gastrodon prevents ebuzz from spamming tbolt, gabite is a very common rocker, scarfer, and breaker, ampharos exists, CM missy always takes one tbolt. Not to mention that purugly can always revenge so ebuzz is never getting more than one kill before being forced out. The mon is just really not so good right now and I have not had a reason to even consider it on my teams from day one of this PUPL season.
 
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Hello, 2 big old gens posts back to back. I'm gonna do overall usage stats for DPP and BW (might do ORAS and SM later but since I played DPP this season and I think BW needs some changes I'm starting with these two).
DPP PU

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Purugly            |   24 |  52.17% |  54.17% |
| 2    | Metang             |   21 |  45.65% |  47.62% |
| 3    | Rhydon             |   16 |  34.78% |  62.50% |
| 3    | Misdreavus         |   16 |  34.78% |  56.25% |
| 5    | Bellossom          |   11 |  23.91% |  54.55% |
| 5    | Gabite             |   11 |  23.91% |  54.55% |
| 5    | Glalie             |   11 |  23.91% |  45.45% |
| 5    | Victreebel         |   11 |  23.91% |  27.27% |
| 9    | Tangela            |    9 |  19.57% |  44.44% |
| 10   | Golduck            |    8 |  17.39% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Xatu               |    8 |  17.39% |  62.50% |
| 10   | Magmar             |    8 |  17.39% |  25.00% |
| 13   | Muk                |    7 |  15.22% |  71.43% |
| 13   | Monferno           |    7 |  15.22% |  42.86% |
| 13   | Murkrow            |    7 |  15.22% |  42.86% |
| 13   | Gastrodon          |    7 |  15.22% |  28.57% |
| 13   | Relicanth          |    7 |  15.22% |  28.57% |
| 18   | Rapidash           |    6 |  13.04% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Mantine            |    6 |  13.04% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Politoed           |    5 |  10.87% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Zangoose           |    5 |  10.87% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Kadabra            |    5 |  10.87% |  40.00% |
| 23   | Ampharos           |    4 |   8.70% |  75.00% |
| 23   | Quagsire           |    4 |   8.70% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Torkoal            |    4 |   8.70% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Machoke            |    4 |   8.70% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Glaceon            |    4 |   8.70% |  25.00% |
| 23   | Sneasel            |    4 |   8.70% |  25.00% |
| 29   | Mr. Mime           |    3 |   6.52% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Armaldo            |    3 |   6.52% |  33.33% |
| 31   | Grovyle            |    2 |   4.35% | 100.00% |
| 31   | Electabuzz         |    2 |   4.35% | 100.00% |
| 31   | Walrein            |    2 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Swalot             |    2 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Kingler            |    2 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Solrock            |    2 |   4.35% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Regigigas          |    1 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Arbok              |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Probopass          |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Golbat             |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Lapras             |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Pinsir             |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Seviper            |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from ALLCE.
  • Missing 2 Pokemon from HEYSUP.
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from HEYSUP.
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from GENERALANNOYANCE.
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from HSOWA.
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from HEYSUP.
  • Missing 1 Pokemon from SERGIORULES.
  • Missing 3 Pokemon from ATOMICLLAMAS.

It's pretty common knowledge for anyone who plays DPP that :purugly: is an almost mandatory pick for most teams. The high speed tier with Fake Out and U-turn is hard to pass up on. We see some other big players like :rhydon::misdreavus::bellossom::gabite::victreebel: and other mons that you would expect to see some high usage. One thing that surprised me was :metang: being the second most used Pokemon (unless 5 of the 11 missing mons happened to be :misdreavus: or :rhydon:). GA and I. both expressed how Metang had fallen off the radar only a few dozen posts ago. It's still an A+ mon and a really good check to things like Victreebel and Psychic-types but even though I used it in 4 out of my 6 weeks, it did catch me a little off guard. Both other S-rank mons, :relicanth: and :muk: only had 7 uses which seems shockingly low. Maybe a sign of times changing, who knows.

DPP LEADS

Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Glalie                  |   10 |  21.74% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Purugly                 |    9 |  19.57% |  55.56% |
| 3    | Rapidash                |    4 |   8.70% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Machoke                 |    4 |   8.70% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Armaldo                 |    3 |   6.52% |  33.33% |
| 5    | Magmar                  |    3 |   6.52% |  33.33% |
| 5    | Kadabra                 |    3 |   6.52% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Metang                  |    2 |   4.35% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Misdreavus              |    2 |   4.35% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Monferno                |    2 |   4.35% |   0.00% |
| 11   | Rhydon                  |    1 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Mr. Mime                |    1 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Gabite                  |    1 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Relicanth               |    1 |   2.17% |   0.00% |

10 out of the 11 :glalie: uses were as a lead, but that's not too surprising given its nature as a HO lead. :rapidash: and :armaldo: haven't seen too much usage in the past as leads but apparently have their merits shown here. Armaldo being able to set rocks as well as beat an opposing Glalie lead and limit or get rid of its Spikes is insanely useful as well as its ability to tank attacks from Purugly leads for days and possibly beat it if it runs a lure Superpower. Unfortunately it's still a Stealth Rock weak spinner and is very slow which gives it a pretty big handicap.

BW PU

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Monferno           |   17 |  38.64% |  58.82% |
| 2    | Simipour           |   16 |  36.36% |  43.75% |
| 3    | Scraggy            |   15 |  34.09% |  60.00% |
| 4    | Beheeyem           |   14 |  31.82% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Zebstrika          |   13 |  29.55% |  38.46% |
| 6    | Torterra           |   12 |  27.27% |  41.67% |
| 7    | Tentacool          |   11 |  25.00% |  63.64% |
| 7    | Stunfisk           |   11 |  25.00% |  54.55% |
| 9    | Gabite             |   10 |  22.73% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Golduck            |    9 |  20.45% |  66.67% |
| 11   | Audino             |    7 |  15.91% |  57.14% |
| 12   | Swoobat            |    6 |  13.64% |  83.33% |
| 12   | Vileplume          |    6 |  13.64% |  83.33% |
| 12   | Articuno           |    6 |  13.64% |  66.67% |
| 12   | Klang              |    6 |  13.64% |  50.00% |
| 12   | Maractus           |    6 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 12   | Natu               |    6 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 12   | Mawile             |    6 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 12   | Swanna             |    6 |  13.64% |  16.67% |
| 20   | Krokorok           |    5 |  11.36% |  60.00% |
| 20   | Frillish           |    5 |  11.36% |  60.00% |
| 20   | Ursaring           |    5 |  11.36% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Bronzor            |    5 |  11.36% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Dwebble            |    5 |  11.36% |  40.00% |
| 25   | Purugly            |    4 |   9.09% |  75.00% |
| 25   | Sneasel            |    4 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Dodrio             |    4 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Stoutland          |    4 |   9.09% |  25.00% |
| 29   | Shiftry            |    3 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Volbeat            |    3 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Huntail            |    3 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Rampardos          |    3 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Fraxure            |    3 |   6.82% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Jumpluff           |    3 |   6.82% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Murkrow            |    2 |   4.55% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Zweilous           |    2 |   4.55% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Vanilluxe          |    2 |   4.55% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Pawniard           |    1 |   2.27% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Leafeon            |    1 |   2.27% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Mr. Mime           |    1 |   2.27% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Regigigas          |    1 |   2.27% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Rapidash           |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Simisear           |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Duosion            |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Prinplup           |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Emolga             |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Marowak            |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Simisage           |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Muk                |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Hippopotas         |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Abra               |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Slowpoke           |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Banette            |    1 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
Seems like we might have a new king of BWPU. :monferno: really came out this year and showed people how potent it can be. It saw some diversity in sets from SD to Scarf to Focus Sash lead, but with the lack of sturdy Pokemon that resist both Fire and Fighting (:swanna: is too frail, :tentacool: has no recovery, and :pelipper: is a shitmon and all 3 are beaten by Thunder Punch(edit: forgot about :frillish: even though I mention it later but still suffers from the Thunder Punch)) Monferno can be extremely hard to deal with. Defensive :beheeyem: may be able to tank a neutral hit and KO it, but if it takes even a little bit of chip a +2 Flare Blitz will delete it. Revenge killing is an option but many faster, frailer Pokemon can fold to a boosted Mach Punch. I think Monferno is definitely a pressing issue that might need to be discussed. Another mon that has been very controversial is :simipour: in second place. Simipour's variability and overwhelming offensive presence really drives the defensive cores of BW. Lots of SpDef :klang:, :scraggy:, :vileplume:, and :tentacool: usage. The most used repeated team this PUPL was that one stall team made up of :Articuno: / :Krokorok: / :Scraggy: / :Tentacool: / :Audino: / :Frillish:. 5/6 of those mons are Simipour checks in some way. It seems like we're to the point where every BW main knows that Simipour needs to be banned (along with Beheeyem but that's another one that most people know) and I think as soon as BWPL is done we should ban it immediately. Also unban Gothorita, I was too hasty voting ban on it.
I think BWPU can be a great metagame with just a few more shifts and bans. Once we get a chance, I'd be very excited to see what a Simipour-less meta looks like.

Anyway I've been typing long enough, hope you find the stats useful and enjoy my commentary on the metas, byeee
 
Last edited:

DnB

#DnB4608, its way easier on discord :>
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Also unban Gothorita, I was too hasty voting ban on it.
nope, lets not do that

simipour, beheeyem and scraggy all need a closer look again tho :)
 

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