Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings

[365pokemon]

Glaceon from C to C+
It hits really hard with a choice specs set, so if it gets a switch in on something like roselia, it gets a kill. The only real switchins are ninetales and regice, because pokemon like defensive poli and piloswine are outsped, so they can be 2hkoed after being weakened. Glaceon also has solid 65/110/95 defenses, allowing it to take a hit.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Carracosta: 171-201 (48.5 - 57.1%)it beats the costa/roselia core
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 195-229 (43.9 - 51.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 236-280 (72.8 - 86.4%)

Everything else is 2hkoed or can't do anything back to glaceon.

Edit: I agree that glaceon shouldn't rise for now. Once snow warning is released I think C+ is fair.

 

[Anty]

Glaceon from C to C+
It hits really hard with a choice specs set, so if it gets a switch in on something like roselia, it gets a kill. The only real switchins are ninetales and regice, because pokemon like defensive poli and piloswine are outsped, so they can be 2hkoed after being weakened. Glaceon also has solid 65/110/95 defenses, allowing it to take a hit.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Carracosta: 171-201 (48.5 - 57.1%)it beats the costa/roselia core
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 195-229 (43.9 - 51.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 236-280 (72.8 - 86.4%)

Everything else is 2hkoed or can't do anything back to glaceon.

Glaceon may seem nice, but it has a very limited use as a wallbreaker considering this is a very offensively based metagame. However, the main problem is that it receives heavy competition from other ice types, mainly Auroras, who has similar strenght due to its amazing ability, has stronger coverage with earth power, and can get passed water types with freeze dry, which just laugh at glaceon. Auroras also has the added benefit of being able to set up stealth rocks, allowing it to be much more useful vs offensive teams which have multiple ways of revenge killing both, as glaceons high defense is neutered by low hp and a poor defensive typing. The only place i can see glaceon moving is down, however this may change with the release of snow warning auroras in a week.

Just curious what lead to the Cleafairy drop.. not that at matters too much, im just interested to know. Thanks

The metagame is quite harsh on clefairy. Firstly most offensive teams have Pokemon like stoutland who can easily 2HKO Clefairy, secondly, stall has become a lot worse, due to said strong attackers, which is Clefairy's main playstyle and also the playstyle it had the best matchup against, and lastly the addition of two steel-types, Probopass and Pawniard, just ruin it, as pawniard can easily 2HKO and knock its item off while probopass completely walls it

 

[365pokemon]

Armaldo from B+ to A-, because no spinblocker can safely switch in, it can reliably set up rocks, and can still threaten with one of the highest attack stats in PU.

Persian from C to D, because I feel that purugly completely outclasses it. Purugly has much higher attack (base 82 compared to persian's base 70), and only slightly lower speed - the only relevant things persian outspeeds that purugly can't are sneasel and floatzel, and persian sti. Persian's technician fake out is not significantly stronger than purugly's, and all of persian's other moves are weaker than purugly's. Other than that, purugly gets every single important move that persian gets(u-turn, return, fake out, taunt, knock off), and can also utilize sucker punch. Most importantly, purugly's defiant lets it deter the opponent from defogging, and gives it a free +2 boost against sticky web. Nasty plot persian is outclased by nasty plotters like ninetales and misdreavus.

I also want to nominate Whirlipede from B- to B again, because it works really well in the whirlipede/misdreavus/pawniard core, and is a key component of many offensive teams.

 

[Raiza]

Persian from C to D, because I feel that purugly completely outclasses it. Purugly has much higher attack (base 82 compared to persian's base 70), and only slightly lower speed - the only relevant things persian outspeeds that purugly can't are sneasel and floatzel. Persian's technician fake out is not significantly stronger than purugly's, and all of persian's other moves are weaker than purugly's. Other than that, purugly gets every single important move that persian gets(u-turn, return, fake out, taunt, knock off), and can also utilize sucker punch. Most importantly, purugly's defiant lets it deter the opponent from defogging, and gives it a free +2 boost against sticky web. Nasty plot persian is outclased by nasty pl like ninetales and misdreavus.

I'm opposing to this nomination, you should not talk about the fake out set and argument more on the Nasty Plot one since that is its main niche in the tier at the moment differently from what a lot of people think, and that's why it is unexpected most of the times and works great as a late game sweeper. Persian is a decent Late Game sweeper thanks to its really fast for the tier standards and has a decent coverage boosted by Technician, making it able to lure its supposed checks and counters, making it dangerous and really annoying once it set ups a Nasty Plot, so I would say C is okay though.

approve the whirlipede one tho

 

[BadPandaPancham]

Armaldo from B+ to A-, because no spinblocker can safely switch in, it can reliably set up rocks, and can still threaten with one of the highest attack stats in PU.

Persian from C to D, because I feel that purugly completely outclasses it. Purugly has much higher attack (base 82 compared to persian's base 70), and only slightly lower speed - the only relevant things persian outspeeds that purugly can't are sneasel and floatzel. Persian's technician fake out is not significantly stronger than purugly's, and all of persian's other moves are weaker than purugly's. Other than that, purugly gets every single important move that persian gets(u-turn, return, fake out, taunt, knock off), and can also utilize sucker punch. Most importantly, purugly's defiant lets it deter the opponent from defogging, and gives it a free +2 boost against sticky web. Nasty plot persian is outclased by nasty pl like ninetales and misdreavus.

I also want to nominate Whirlipede from B- to B again, because it works really well in the whirlipede/misdreavus/pawniard core, and is a key component of many offensive teams.

Whirli is super good in the current offensive meta so I agree. I don't really think Persain is a good mon but it does see some potential in a Nasty Plot set. C is fine enough for it, it's not like it is super high up already.
Therefore, I second the nomination of Whirlipede from B- to B.

 

[ManOfMany]

I'll be the first to say this. Whirlipede to C- and Venipede to B-. By far the best whirlipede set is sash lead with spikes and endeavor, but Venipede can do the same thing with higher speed.

Whirlipede shouldn't move all the way down though because its higher bulk combined with good defensive typing allows it set up more spikes on stuff like Roselia if one chooses not to use it as a lead or with the inferior eviolite. However venipede can outspeed mons like Dodrio after Protect and less bulk means it activates endeavor at 1 HP nearly all the time.

I wasn't the first one to think of this though :)

 

[BadPandaPancham]

I mean, whirl's only notable bulk difference is taking a two hit rock blast from golem, and veni's only speed difference is not predicting protect vs spikes on a lead Dwebble which kills with rock blast or goes for rocks predicting protect. Taking Rock Blast from Golem matter more in my opinion, more relevant. Also if you want to make the less bulk for Endeavor point, most times you go for Spike without going for Endeavor anyways, because it's usually more useful. So I disagree. 10 more base speed points doesn't mean anything. Outspeeding Dodrio is also kinda irrelevant because it also runs priority so it will kill either. Dodrio also gets less recoil from using Brave Bird on Venipede. And if you want to say what about CB Dodrio, no one should be leading with it because it has no U-Turn pivot and it's dumb to have a locked Pokemon stay in T1.

 

[365pokemon]

Against things with higher speed sashed whirlipede can use this sequence: protect, spikes, protect, and get to +2. At +2 the only notable pokemon venipede outspeeds that whirlipede can't are scarfed mr mime and scarfed rotom-f.

Huge edit: by following that sequence whirlipede gets to +3, where it hits 530 speed. So whirlipede gets up 2 hazards vs scarf mime and rotom anyway. The only pokemon that +3 venipede(585) outspeeds that +3 whirlipede can't are agility and chlorophyll (in sun) pokemon. These are not relevant, since whirlipede can set up a hazard on the turn sun/agility goes up, and then set up another hazard while living with focus sash.

 

[About 7 Kidz]

Both of which are relevant.. but idk if there is neccesarily a reason to run that over Whirlipede

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I agree with moving Whirlipede up, but Whirl and Venipede are pretty much the exact same thing and there's no need to rank them separately :s

I disagree with a rise to Armaldo though. Armaldo is not only walled by Poliwrath and easily revenge killed because even +2 Aqua Jet is weak, it's also worn down very quickly because of SR weakness and the fact that it doesn't actually resist a lot of things at all. It's a cool spinner yeah, but apart from that I haven't really found it worthy of a place in the A ranks.

 

[365pokemon]

Whirlipede and venipede are not the same thing. Whirlipede can run eviolite, venipede can't. Whirlipede's greater bulk lets it be saved to switch in on walls like tangela, roselia, throh, and lickilicky later in the match. Venipede only gets up one layer of hazards against pokemon with a strong attack and priority, like basculin, sneasel, and most importantly piloswine, a common lead. Whirlipede also has enough bulk to live some multiple hit moves:

252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 258-312 (90.8 - 109.8%)a chance to live if it hits 2-3 times
252+ Atk Armaldo Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 270-324 (95 - 114%)a chance to live if it hits 2-3 times
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 260-308 (91.5 - 108.4%)a chance to live

Edit:

I mean, whirl's only notable bulk difference is taking a two hit rock blast from golem, and veni's only speed difference is not predicting protect vs spikes on a lead Dwebble which kills with rock blast or goes for rocks predicting protect. Taking Rock Blast from Golem matter more in my opinion, more relevant. Also if you want to make the less bulk for Endeavor point, most times you go for Spike without going for Endeavor anyways, because it's usually more useful. So I disagree. 10 more base speed points doesn't mean anything. Outspeeding Dodrio is also kinda irrelevant because it also runs priority so it will kill either. Dodrio also gets less recoil from using Brave Bird on Venipede. And if you want to say what about CB Dodrio, no one should be leading with it because it has no U-Turn pivot and it's dumb to have a locked Pokemon stay in T1.

Yes, venipede outspeeds neutral dwebble while whirlipede can't, but dwebble has a chance to not even KO whirlipede with a 5 hit rock blast(and 4 hits will never KO):
252 Atk Dwebble Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 270-330 (95 - 116.1%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

[MZ]

Whirlipede and venipede are not the same thing. Whirlipede can run eviolite, venipede can't. Whirlipede's greater bulk lets it be saved to switch in on walls like tangela, roselia, throh, and lickilicky later in the match. Venipede only gets up one layer of hazards against pokemon with a strong attack and priority, like basculin, sneasel, and most importantly piloswine, a common lead. Whirlipede also has enough bulk to live some multiple hit moves:

252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 258-312 (90.8 - 109.8%)a chance to live if it hits 2-3 times
252+ Atk Armaldo Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 270-324 (95 - 114%)a chance to live if it hits 2-3 times
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 260-308 (91.5 - 108.4%)a chance to live

Whirlipede cannot use eviolite. The calcs are a good argument, but eviolite whirlipede is not good due to reasons that we already explained to you in the PU room (outclassed, weak to rocks and generally mediocre outside of a suicide lead)

 

[365pokemon]

Those calcs aren't for eviolite whirlipede, those are for regular whirlipede. None of my post was talking about eviolite whirlipede. I only mentioned it in the beginning as a difference between the two.

 

[MZ]

Whirlipede can run eviolite, venipede can't.

just pointing out this inaccuracy, I said the calcs were good

 

[365pokemon]

Pawniard from A to A+
Pawniard is necessary on hazard stacking teams, and can provide teams with priority. It's a threat to stall, thanks to a unique defensive typing and passable bulk with eviolite that give it opportunities to set up. There is very little risk to using pawniard, as the worst thing it will do in a match is prevent a defog or knock off an item, while the reward is sweeping or heavily damaging the opposing team once its counters are weakened, which it can do in many matches.

 

[BadPandaPancham]

Pawniard from A to A+
Pawniard is necessary on hazard stacking teams, and can provide teams with priority. It's a threat to stall, thanks to a unique defensive typing and passable bulk with eviolite that give it opportunities to set up. There is very little risk to using pawniard, as the worst thing it will do in a match is prevent a defog or knock off an item, while the reward is sweeping or heavily damaging the opposing team once its counters are weakened, which it can do in many matches.

I love Pawniard, and will never not support him. I agree he is a high-tier threat, A+ even. While Sneasel is a dark-type with speed, Pawniard hits super hard and doesn't even need a lot of coverage outside the moves it gets. I have used a variety of sets on him already. Both SD and CB are great choices. CB adds instant power to eliminate a check or counter to a certain mon on your team, especially because of how damn good it is at Pursuit-trapping, it always nets a kill for me. If it's a Rotom-F that decides to switch fearing a Sucker Punch or just a mon that wants to switch out into something that checks Pawniard, it will trap it and do hella damage. SD is also a huge wincon for most teams and threats so many teams out there, especially with how much it punishes offense with great attack and priority. It also has decent speed, it outspeeds enough at max speed to be able to cause chaos. Not to mention how easily you can insta-sweep by coming in on a defog or a sticky webs team (or when you switch-in on a Crunch and get the defense drop :^) kidding, hax is irrelevant) but it does punish the haxy-stat drops on you, and while that is total luck, it's still fun to have because it does exist on a lot of mons. Pawn from A to A+ pls

 

[FallenSword912]

Can someone explain exactly why Jumpluff got moved up all the way to A+ so fast? He didn't gain any moves from ORAS or anything

 

[Rennyjesus]

I guess it's because the increased use of Poliwrath and Throh that despises eating Acrobatics (posibly boosted by the way cuz it looks like SD sets are the most used right now) and all the bans and shifts that usually could handle Jumpluff easily like Bulky Garbo, Bulky Musharna, Intimidate Tauros, Sap Sipper Bouffalant... I believe that even eviolite Scyther could handle two unboosted Acrobatics and ko it with Technician Aerial Ace in a pinch... Now the best bets to handle it without much problems are Ice Shards from Pilo and Sneasel (well, another Ice move from Sneasel can also work, considering it's faster)...
That's what I think...

 

[Magnemite]

PU is a tier that has had a lot of untapped potential throughout its existence, and there's always a possibility that one of the best mons in the metagame is right beneath our noses, just waiting for someone to discover how good it actually is. For example, if you look at the August rankings you'll see things like Throh in B and Simipour and Avalugg in C. More recently, Rock Polish Regice, 3 attacks Morning Sun Rapidash, and Specs Floatzel were previously unheard of threats that were enough to propel their respective Pokemon from the lower B ranks into the A ranks quite quickly. While we're running out of things to discover, it's still possible that there's a really good Pokemon or set that we're just missing.

 

[Tect]

ok, first Smogon post..so here goes (que the laughter)


Trubbish to C+

Ok, so why am I talking about garbage? Ah, because one man's trash is another man's spiker/dark spam counter/fighting check/grass spam counter.
Allow me to elaborate.

Trubbish @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes/Pain Split
- Gunk Shot/Haze
- Drain Punch/Haze

With the ability Sticky Hold giving an eviolite staying power and it's above average, albeit HP lacking, bulk of 50/93/93, Trubbish is no slouch.

It may look like a carbon copy of its older brother ,Garbador, but with an eviolite it actually outbulks Garb in its defenses and can tank some serious hits like they were nothing but....wait for it.....garbage. I know, I'm a genius, the Michelangelo of words, if you will. But all jokes aside, with wish support Trubbish has a ton of longevity and switches in on checks for what is really the tier's only viable wish passer, Lickilicky, with ease. With a low HP stat, it gets 100% of its health back each pass and can continue to trash your opponents field with hazards and gunky shots. Ok, I'm done with bad puns, you can stop screaming now. Read below for calcs.

P.S.-
A SpDef variant could probably be run effectively, making this pokemon versatile from a defensive standpoint. Venoshock, Toxic Spike combo with a few shufflers on a team might also be effective, and could probably be done without much SpA investment, allowing you to keep Drain Punch as a go to move for those pesky Dark types. But that may be far too out there, and I haven't bothered to calc anything along those lines. Just a thought.

P.P.S.-Pain split could be run over Toxic spikes if wish support isn't conducive to your team's overall structure and you don't mind missing out on residual damage. It also helps stall out standard rest talk Throh while making Trubbish nearly impossible for Throh to pick off. Eventually it will force the switch or a PP war.



Lé Dark Spam
So, Little Trubbish here beats all darks one on one with very minimal attack investment. With Drain Punch allowing for some recovery while in the midst of battle, Trubbish is sure to come away with usable health to do more trashy deeds after vanquishing these dark fellows. And not only that, but he can just, if he so chose to, spike in their respective faces. Something a certain rose could only dream of doing.
Ll
8 Atk Trubbish Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 112-136 (48.4 - 58.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO


252+ Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 84-100 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

8 Atk Trubbish Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mightyena: 86-102 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 95-113 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 79.4% chance to 3HKO


252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 109-129 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


8 Atk Trubbish Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasel: 204-244 (81.2 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Lé Broke Thing
Trubbish gets full hazard layers up on Throh. And with the addition of Haze on a set, can proceed to throw spikes at Throh (hehe) while he watches him get nice n bulky. Even with the rarely seen coverage that is Zen Headbutt, Trubbish gets 3 layers up regardless. 2-3 layers are possible if they really want to run Earthquake and blow your unsuspecting mind. Aren't we suspecting this thing? Is this mic even on? Huh, dead crowd.


+2 252+ Atk Throh Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 124-147 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Throh Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 104-124 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Lé Vegetables
Weeds in your garden? Vines up your walls? Not an issue, Trubbish is on the scene. Name a plant (that isn't a turtle) and it's gone.
Trubbish hits hard with STAB Gunk Shot on most of the tier's offensive minded grass types and just chews hits from said threats like gum. What's a Jumpluff SD when Trubbish's memory gets a little hazy and forgets you were dancing with swords like a lunatic? Ditto for that mean old Leafeon.
So go outside, breathe some fresh air and spread your trash on those pesky weeds. Spikes included with every purchase.


252 Atk Life Orb Leafeon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 79-94 (26 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


8 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Leafeon: 120-144 (44.2 - 53.1%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO


8 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Roselia: 94-112 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Jumpluff Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Trubbish: 67-81 (22.1 - 26.7%) -- 19.5% chance to 4HKO

8 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 204-242 (70.1 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cons
Realizing I failed to shed light on Trubbish's more than ample flaws, I shall now do so.
Longevity-
With no reliable recovery of its own(Pain Split being situational and not a guarantee), Trubbish does struggle without Wish support. Serving as a spiker/defensive wall to some threats , without said team mate, it is easily worn down.
4MSS-
Can I get a 5th move slot?.Amen. With haze being Trubbish's only way to deter many threats from setting up, it is almost necessary to run. And if said Wish pass isn't available, Pain Split might also be a staple on the set. This leaves you with only two available slots which would need to be given to 1 type of spike, and one coverage move of your choice, depending on the needs of your team. This further forces Trubbish into a niche where it might or might not be outclassed, depending on the respective situation.
Torterra-
Look, Up in the sky!! Is it a turtle? Is it a tree?. No, it's one of the tier's best offensive grass types.
Trubbish can't touch Torterra even if it tried, which is not a scenario I'd like to encounter any day. With Gunk Shot only hitting neutrally for abysmal damage and Torterra possessing the ability to possibly OHKO after rocks, Trubbish has met his match in the form of this monster. RIP .

Hope everyone enjoyed my first post, and I really hope you consider Trubbish next time you're building spike offense. Cya

 

[365pokemon]

Wobbuffet from E to Unlisted - Since shadow tag is banned in PU there is no reason to use wobbuffet. The opponent can always switch out on wobuffett to prevent it from doing anything with counter, encore, or mirror coat. It has no way of causing any consequence to the opponent, other than forcing entry hazard damage(but any pokemon that can actually do something to the opponent would do this way better).

Luvdisc from E to Unlisted - This is completely outclassed by simipour, who has access to every relevant move that luvdisc gets, as well as some crucial moves that luvdisc doesn't get, like nasty plot. Simipour also has much higher base stats than luvdisc in every important category. There is no reason to use luvdisc.

Unown from E to Unlisted - 48/48/48 defenses means that almost any attack will knock it out. It has around the same speed as golem, and access to only one weak attacking move. There is no way to justify using unown on a team.

 

[Magnemite]

E is essentially the same thing as unlisted- it's the place for all more or less unviable fully evolved Pokemon, so no fully evolved Pokemon is ever unlisted.

Speaking of the lower ranks, Anty and I are working on an update to the D, C-, and C ranks so look out for that (sun)

 

[MZ]

Seaking can probably move out of E rank, as lightning rod plus good move pool plus water type does give it a niche. I wouldn't ever want to use it, but same goes for Gourgeist-outclassed and Gigalith, at least Seaking has something.

 

[Anty]

Wobbuffet from E to Unlisted - Since shadow tag is banned in PU there is no reason to use wobbuffet. The opponent can always switch out on wobuffett to prevent it from doing anything with counter, encore, or mirror coat. It has no way of causing any consequence to the opponent, other than forcing entry hazard damage(but any pokemon that can actually do something to the opponent would do this way better).

Luvdisc from E to Unlisted - This is completely outclassed by simipour, who has access to every relevant move that luvdisc gets, as well as some crucial moves that luvdisc doesn't get, like nasty plot. Simipour also has much higher base stats than luvdisc in every important category. There is no reason to use luvdisc.

Unown from E to Unlisted - 48/48/48 defenses means that almost any attack will knock it out. It has around the same speed as golem, and access to only one weak attacking move. There is no way to justify using unown on a team.

These Pokemon are only E as they are fully evolved. E rank is for Pokes that are in PU and fully evolved but either have no niche so/or are completely outclassed.

Now to Nom:
Ursaring and Stoutland to A rank:
These two pokemon are amazing in this metagame, and although are different, they are similar enough to group together. Stoutland has an alright speed tier, decent bulk, and a huge amount of strength making it almost uncounterable. It is also nice in wearing down pokes like tangela and misdreavus allowing partners (like agility kingler and rp torterra) to sweep much more easily. Sand is also a huge, unprepared threat, and even though stoutland now has to predict now rock and steels are everywhere, silk scarf is a very nice item to bluff choice and then smack their probopass with superpower/missy with crunch. Ursaring is in a similar boat, being a very powerful normal, but it trades in slightly more power and bulk/longetivity for the ability to free up moves and a nice speed tier. This is crucial in revenge killing pokemon like ninetales and simipour.

Misdreavus to A:
This may be a bit more controversial but missy really is not nearly as good as it was in the tauros meta. Firstly i now feel less of a reason to use this on offensive teams as they is no more tauros who destroyed a ton of offensive builds, now it is replaced by ursaring and stoutland who dont really care about missy. The days of it switching in on offensive pokes are long gone now every physical poke is starting to run hydro pump and choice specs to blow this away. Seriously, this metagame i feel is too offensive with too many strong offensive sets for the nasty plot sets to be as effective as they were, as it also has to run hp fighting coverage or it just loses to probopass. The defensive set has been a bit better for me in this metagame but it can be a liability vs pokes like throh who just get a free switch in, and it is passive as fuck vs special attackers. I know to big checks, sneasel and throh, are being suspected, but i still dont think that will change too much for its viability, but it is would be stupid to theorymon its viability

Regice A-:
Recently this has really disappointed me, as i find it increasingly more difficult to get sweeps. Unfortunately for regice pokes like throh and ninetales just rule the metagame making it increasingly hard for regice to sweep even if it has successfully set up. It is also fairly slow so pokes like scarf sawsbuck and haunter can revenge kill if weakened (which isnt too hard), and even ninjask outspeeds if regice has a rp up. I also feel like it is harder to set up now this metagame is mainly physically dominated, and it is easy to predict and maybe put it to sleep with tangela then switch out, for example (although predicting is a bad argument :x). The main reason i dont use this is because there are so many other pu set up sweepers; ss costa, ss baracle, rp torterra, ss poliwrath, etc, which all have their own niche but more importantly, give regice competition

 

[PachChomp]

Nominating Ivysaur from Unlisted to C-/C Rank.

Ivysaur with Eviolite is decently bulky in the tier.
With 60/95/120, Ivysaur is very bulky.
Additionally, with access to recovery moves, like Synthesis, Giga Drain, Leech Seed, this thing can keep going with its strong bulk.
252 SpA Zebstrika Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Ivysaur: 124-148 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Ivysaur: 252-296 (77.7 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just a few examples where Ivysaur shows some bulk.
With that bulk, it should at least be listed.
It takes care of Poliwrath.
Does not get OHKO'ed by Sneasel.
And can stall Throh nicely by draining its massive HP with Leech Seed.
Overall, it has a solid niche with its bulk so it should at least be listed....