Metagame (Pure) Hackmons [OM of the Month]

Ransei

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24 days into January. I got some news

So as it turns out, there's been a sudden change in the metagame.


For those who don't know, Zacian can only be crowned forme with the Intrepid Sword ability and Rusted Sword item, while Zamazenta can only be crowned forme under the Dauntless Shield ability and Rusted Shield item. In Pokemon Sword and Shield, If anyone tries to hack in a Zacian-Crowned or Zamazenta-Crowned with another ability and/or item, they just turn back into their base formes.
The statement above is outdated. Zacian and Zamazenta in their crowned formes have recently been proven usable without any item or ability restrictions! Cheers, we can do more with these formes! Here are my initial thoughts on how I think these will affect the metagame.



92/170/115/80/115/148
BST: 720
Honestly there isn't much I can say about Zacian-Crowned. Before it became freed, regular Zamazenta took a role of support and random OHKO abuser, but most importantly as a check to Kyurem-White, Necrozma-Dawn Wings, Mewtwo, Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, and any other good Neutralizing Gas sweeper after they set up. I see Zacian-Crowned taking these same roles but with Magearna's typing and an additional base 10 speed. It can use Behemoth Blade/Bash to check their Dynamaxed forms, which are nigh-required to be able to properly deal with Eternamax. Aside from this I expect Zacian-Crowned to not be much different from how it already was before this discovery, when it could take advantage of Neutralizing Gas switching in and out to gain Attack boosts, then try to flinchspam with Double Iron Bash. Overall, this Pokemon is gonna be great. (I cannot express enough how important being able to check Neutralizing Gas offense sweepers are in this format)

Disclaimer:
With every new change comes new ideas, and Huge Power + Sunsteel Strike seems to be a fairly popular one.
Huge Power + Sunsteel Strike is most likely going to be a waste. Huge Power this gen is fatally flawed by the presence of Neutralizing Gas and Eternamax, especially with moves that aren't Super Effective. The problem is, Neutralizing Gas will shut down Huge Power, Huge Power can Gastro Acid, but only for it to do similarly low amounts of damage to the Neutralizing Gas Pokemon or Eternamax in general that switches in on the next turn. You might as well be using Intrepid Sword since you'll be taking advantage of Neutralizing Gas switching out to gain attack boosts, and this so far is the most efficient method to boost attack using an ability this gen, at least from what has been discovered. However despite this the overall best method of offense using Zacian-Crowned is just by spouting a random OHKO move or two (preferably Horn Drill or Fissure). It may have base 170 Attack but Eternamax can shut this down even if Zacian-Crowned gets double raw Attack because Zacian-Crowned isn't running a Super Effective STAB move. If it wants to do any serious sweeping, this and hoping for constant Double Iron Bash flinchspams are the best it could hope for.



92/130/145/80/145/128
BST: 720
For now, Zamazenta-Crowned is looking to be at a high risk of being outclassed by regular Zamazenta, regular Zacian, and Zacian-Crowned simply for its speed. Any of the other dog duo formes should be able to check it with Taunt or faster/stronger attacks this guy wouldn't be able to wall. For example, regular Zamazenta still runs Close Combat. However despite this, it's still able to outspeed most Neutralizing Gas sweepers with a Choice Scarf and therefore its presumed main role is still secured for the most part. Aside from this its higher bulk allows this Pokemon to potentially look more suitable as some sort of trapper. I'll be looking forward into whatever people try coming up with when trying to use Zamazenta-Crowned.


Do you have any thoughts on these two Pokemon? What about thoughts on the rest of the metagame? Let us know in your posts below! I'll update my previous posts to align with our recent changes.
 
Some Zacian-C sets, in alphabetical order (probably inverse viability):
Zacian-Crowned @ Expert Belt
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Double Iron Bash / Behemoth Blade
- Earthquake
- Spore / Filler
+6 252 Atk Expert Belt Zacian-Crowned Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternamax: 504-595 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
(Can use Adamant to cancel out +Def Etern, or use Life Orb, or just get sr / 2 spikes)
With the hazard stacking available due to Etern's bulk, Zacian-C can use its superior speed stat (to DGZ and Dragapult) to take out threats. STAB allows Zacian to take out everything immune to EQ.

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Copycat
- Whirlwind / Dragon Tail
Zacian-Crowned goes to town once hazards are up and MBouncers are down. Able to tank priority, having most abilities gone because of NGas, and an amazing speed tier have it dominate an NGas ridden metagame. However, people (or at least me) run MBounce Eternamax on every team due to Normalize Dragapult, and this is just another threat to justify that. Outside of being a wincon, it phases non-Mewtwo smashers like Kyu-W and Indeedee, and can force at least 1 switch - even if it doesn't use a move. You could also plop Comatose on another Zaican for a slightly less effective partner but huge bluff.

Zacian (Zacian-Crowned) @ Leppa Berry / Any Other Item
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Double Iron Bash / Recycle
- Fissure / Horn Drill
- Recover
Zacian doesn't only have Mag's typing, but even better bulk. Zacian-C can set up Sub on Eternamax without fear (unless they're running coverage just for it), and proceed to spam OHKO. Double Iron Bash takes out everything other than eternamax 2KO. Leppa Berry, every without recycle gives Zacian a refil of PP (which is really needs for moveslots).

Zacian (Zacian-Crowned) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Bash / Double Iron Bash
- Knock Off
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin / Trick
Knock hits Indeedee and is an overall useful move. Behemoth Bash KOs Kyurem and other dynamaxed targets. Spectral allows Zacian to check Necrozma-DM who survives Knock Off after a dynamax. The last move is utility.

Zacian-Crowned @ Safety Goggles / Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Super Fang / Knock Off / Fissure / Double Iron Bash / etc.
- Taunt / Spore / Spikes / Stealth Rock / Spectral Thief / Rapid Spin / Defog / Glare / etc.
- Recover
- U-turn / Teleport
Zamazenta but better, unless Attack Etern becomes meta this set will be really effective. Just use a bunch of moves that disrupt the opponent so that another sweeper can win.
Behemoth Blade/Bash to check their Dynamaxed forms, which are nigh-required to be able to properly deal with Eternamax
weird wording, and dib is also notable for checking not dynamax
Rusted Sword - Despite Zacian-Crowned still being restricted to its native ability and the Rusted Sword item, it can still do wonders in the metagame by utilizing its crazy base attack and speed combo as well as its dual Fairy/Steel typing. It can set up and bypass Wonder Guard with Sunsteel Strike and/or try flinchspamming with Double Iron Bash.
forgot to update this
 
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Huh, I just found out that Pure Hackmons has its own thread. Hey there Tmi489. Lmao now I know you speak from experience, hard derp from me. :psyduck:

So is there some guide what's Meta around here? I can guess Wonder Guard, No Guard, Neutralizing Gas, and Eternamax Eternatus based on the posts so far. Seeing Sesmitoad (guessing this is Wonder Guard), Indeedee (guessing due to Stored Power stab against Eternamax + immunity to Spectral Thief), and a few other mons like Zacian-C and Darmanitan-GZ (Eternamax breakers). Lots of Gastro Acid and Spore spam. Noticed that Comatose isn't a Meta pick though, guess its effect against NGas isn't enough to cover its weaknesses against other Meta picks.
 

Ransei

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Huh, I just found out that Pure Hackmons has its own thread. Hey there Tmi489. Lmao now I know you speak from experience, hard derp from me. :psyduck:

So is there some guide what's Meta around here? I can guess Wonder Guard, No Guard, Neutralizing Gas, and Eternamax Eternatus based on the posts so far. Seeing Sesmitoad (guessing this is Wonder Guard), Indeedee (guessing due to Stored Power stab against Eternamax + immunity to Spectral Thief), and a few other mons like Zacian-C and Darmanitan-GZ (Eternamax breakers). Lots of Gastro Acid and Spore spam. Noticed that Comatose isn't a Meta pick though, guess its effect against NGas isn't enough to cover its weaknesses against other Meta picks.
Oh no our discoveries with the meta have been changing quite a lot since our posts and most of them are rather just being discussed in the OM and Old Shark chatrooms at the moment.

Wonder Guard is outclassed by stuff like Sturdy Eternamax and hasn't proven to be very effective in comparison.
Stuff like Mewtwo, Kyurem-White, and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings are currently the biggest sweepers.
Comatose recently discovered about a week ago and has the potential to make a substantial amount of impact in the meta.
Zac-C is one of the best support Pokemon and is one of the best if not the best best check to various Neutralizing Gas Shell Smash sweepers.
Indeedee is more difficult to use due to lower special attack but if you can set it up to x3, which is easier due to its Normal-typing, then entire teams can get swept.

Right now if I were to create a summary of how the metagame looks, it'd be like this:

Eternamax, Nukes with Shell Smash Neutralizing Gas, Nuke blockers to stop these nukes for Eternamax (using Scarf, priority, or switching in with defensive typings that wall a particular sweeper), Pokemon to help nukes beat nuke blockers (Such as those with Knock Off or hazards like Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Sticky Web), and then spinblockers and magic bouncers to take care of hazard control and beat down normalize dragapult.

Don't expect Toxic Spikes though.

Gastro Acid isn't used much because of how effective Neutralizing Gas is offensively and defensively, Pokemon still being able to break through by switching out, inflicting heavy chip damage or just Wonder Guard not being very effective.
Spore is definitely considerable as it's the only accurate sleep move available. Because of this lots of Pokemon either run Safety Goggles or Comatose.

OHKO moves are also all over the place and can be commonly found on either Eternamax or Zacian-C. These may appear to be in sets fully revolved around them or in sets that prioritize on other tactics and just happen to randomly carry one of these. Since Neutralizing Gas trumps Wonder Guard and Eternamax is difficult to take down without some sort of set up, bulkier Pokemon resorting to this strategy have proven this strat to be effective.

No Guard hasn't been used as much since Neutralizing Gas trumps the meta to a phenomenal extent but I personally believe not much harm can be done in using them, since against Neutralizing Gas Pokemon you're still able to hit, just at 30%, when this strategy is already quite effective for defensive Neutralizing Gas Pokemon themselves, then without opposing Neutralizing Gas without anything like Sturdy or Wonder Guard in the way No Guard can one shot.
 

Ransei

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I was going to wait until I played 100 games with this team but I've now figured since we've been getting plenty of requests, I'm going to throw in a sample team.

Birth of a Titan
Importable:
https://pokepast.es/d3111c49f7eb7eb8

Importable right before this post:
https://pokepast.es/a25223ade391a27a

This was the first Hackmons team I built for Gen 8 but it has had lots of revisions since and even since I last laddered. Here's how the team currently looks:

:ss/zacian-crowned:
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Knock Off
- Trick
- Double Iron Bash
- Stealth Rock

This is a trickscarf Zacian-Crowned lead set. Its goal is to get rocks up while being able to fight off against Kyu-W or Necrozma-Dawn-Wings if they set up. Mewtwo would still outspeed unfortunately. There are two scarf Zacian-Crowned on this team Because of this it was given Trick to break other defensive sets or sets that rely on Sub + OHKO. It can also help Zacian-C for when it would rather lose its move restriction for normal speed than have one for extra speed. Knock Off despite being paired with Trick is really useful for taking down Safety Goggles users, which helps Dawn Wings. It's also there in case you figured you made a mistake in giving Choice Scarf to a particular Pokemon that stops your sweepers. Double Iron Bash is Zacian-Crowned's best move and really helps tear down Ninjask leads or give flinch chances that could help beat other Pokemon and win the game.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- Flamethrower
- Baton Pass

Eternatus-Eternamax 1: First thing you need to know is, it has 0 Speed EVs and IVs because this set wants to outslow as much as it could for Spectral Thief. Spectral Thief is the most important move for this set since it helps you break down most opposing Neutralizing Gas sweepers. This set had Knock Off over Flamethrower but the team has enough Knock Off users outside of this Eternamax and Substitute Zac-C/Ninjask/Melmetal who all have fire weaknesses have also been among the most dangerous threats I've faced so far. Flamethrower has proven to be more effective for it in my experience. Aside from attacks it has Recover to keep pushing out Neutralizing Gas sweepers, and Baton Pass in case it gets the chance to pass some of those stats to a sweeper on this team. Min speed Baton Pass also helps with giving this team some momentum if the opponent isn't using Teleport on the same turn. As for this set's nature, Sassy is great because it provides min speed while giving it the SpD to make things harder for specially offensive sweepers. Specially offensive sweepers are typically better this gen since they have stronger STAB moves to fight off Eternamax with.

:ss/necrozma-dawn-wings:
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Expert Belt
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Earth Power
- Stored Power

Dawn Wings is sweeper #1, used over most other sweepers here simply due to its Ghost-type. The Ghost-type helps block Rapid Spin but is incredibly risky since there's a chance spinblockers could carry Knock Off or Spectral Thief. Oddly enough I haven't really been punished for throwing this out as a spinblocker yet and noticed in the midst of battling that this mon can actually take an unboosted Spectral Thief from Eternamax. When Dawn Wings gets the chance it uses Spore, then Shell Smashes once. If there are already rocks up and the Eternamax have at least taken some chip damage (let's say ~10% for example), you'll be able to OHKO with Stored Power. With a bit more extra damage if you haven't dynamaxed yet you can dynamax and summon Max Mindstorm. Max Mindstorm will trigger Psychic Surge and make the rest of Dawn Wing's day much easier. Despite this, Dark-types like Grimmsnarl or Steel-types like Melmetal can get in the way of things sometimes so in cases like this you can run various types of coverage. These types of coverage include Fairy with Moonblast, or Ground with Earth Power. I used to run Secret Sword to be able to deal with Tyranitar, Melmetal, and Grimmsnarl at the same time but Tyranitar honestly sucks imo and Zacian-Crowned is able to wall x2 boosted sets without Earth Power. Earth Power at this point looks more useful because it beats out more than Secret Sword and Tyranitar is beaten without Assault Vest. Tyranitar is rare and Assault Best is really bad on it anyway. Modest and Expert Belt are important here because they maximize the chances of OHKOing Eternamax without sacrificing your own HP. You can run Life Orb if you want but I don't think it should be ran on Necrozma-Dawn-Wings since it's more prone to being taken down by common countermeasures.

:ss/kyurem-white:
Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Energy Ball
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Sweeper #2 is Kyurem-White and mostly as dangerous. Because it's not weak to Spectral Thief or Knock Off, I figured it didn't need Spore since it doesn't get punished as hard. Kyurem-White needs to have rocks up and at least an expert belt kept to have a chance to OHKO Eternamax at +2. This set has Life Orb since it can pull off dealing with countermeasures better than Dawn Wings can and can use this advantage as a better opportunity to sweep. Despite this, Life Orb can be harder to pull off however. Kyurem-White also has to dynamax since it needs the 140 BP Max Hailstorm from Blizzard to KO. Blizzard may seem like a weird option at first since it has 70% accuracy but it's able to give Kyurem-White the BP high enough to successfully sweep at +2 with rocks while being able to hit as many things as possible. Another thing is, when you do dynamax and summon Max Hailstorm, Hail is also brought up and this ensures at least two Blizzards can hit after dynamax ends. At best you can get five Pokemon down before even having to worry about Blizzard's accuracy. Clanging Scales is also a good option but then you can get walled by specially defensive Fairy-types. Many Kyurem-White sets are great with Spore but here I've decided to run Energy Ball instead. Primarina walls this set otherwise and all it needs is one Shell Smash. Energy Ball is used over Thunderbolt since you can just get Seismitoad out of the way as well. It can be threatening if you try to set up against it. Earth Power on offense Kyurem-White is mostly mandatory if you want to sweep because Steel-types completely wall it otherwise. That is all for its moves. If you look closely at Kyurem-White, you'll see it has 0 Speed IVs and 144 Speed EVs. This is to decrease the likelihood of its stats getting stolen while at the same time being able to outspeed everything without a Scarf after setting up. The best countermeasures for this Pokemon do run Scarf anyway but the Pokemon who do so outspeed even max x2 speed Kyurem-White.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Aromatherapy
- Knock Off
- Wish
- U-turn

Eternatus-Eternamax 2: This is just a cleric. It's there to clear the paralysis and sleep statuses this team could get sometimes just to stop it from being put at a disadvantage so easily. Knock Off is a proper utility move for it since Eternamax can just wall and knock off important items from the opposing team. Because this is the bulkiest cleric imaginable Eternatus-Eternamax can justify running Wish without a Protect move and has U-Turn to help it pivot out into a different Pokemon without having to get Taunted on. Like the other Eternamax this one is also mon speed for slow pivots against those who aren't using Teleport for the same reason. Instead of Sassy, this one is running Relaxed just in case physical sets have to be dealt with too.

:ss/zacian-crowned:
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Sticky Web
- Trick
- Rapid Spin
- Double Iron Bash

Here is the second Zacian-Crowned. It functions mostly the same as the first one except it's with Sticky Web. Trick is also brought here for similar reasons but in addition can help lock spinblockers down to one move, since we aren't running Knock Off here. Rapid Spin is needed somewhere on the team and I couldn't fit it into the first five Pokemon without it potentially going bad for the team. As a result it's also here. Rapid Spin can also help boost speed for Double Iron Bash flinches after tricking out scarf here. Last thing you should notice about this particular Zacian-Crowned is that it carries Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce is there simply to take care of Normalize Entrainment Dragapult, who could give this team a difficult time otherwise. It also bounces off hazards from Pokemon like this Zacian who aren't carrying Neutralizing Gas.

Ok so your goal is essentially to get Stealth Rock and Sticky Web up, keep them up, and then find the opportunity for Dawn Wings or Kyurem-White to set up and break. Knock Off will help with Dawn Wings but be aware it might be harder to keep hazards up if you're aiming to knock off everything.

The team so far has peaked ladder high up into the 1300s, so hopefully that shows it's at least pretty good for the current meta.

(Birth of a Titan)

Here are some replays of the games I've played:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056367758
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056358109
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056355844
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056361203-ca7s6k9kwgt9tg4m0uupmml9iug5qp9pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056353448
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056346536
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1056345172


Have fun using this. The name Birth of a Titan was used to reference the rise of Neutralizing Gas in Hackmons. I know you'll all love the team and this post will push the metagame up right away. In return, it's also about to become more challenging >:)! I can't wait.
 
Melmetal-Gmax @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Double Iron Bash
- Trick
- Earthquake

Melmetal-Gmax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fissure
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Recover

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Court Change
- Recover
- Teleport

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Recover

Kyurem-White @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Zacian-Crowned @ Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Recover
- Double Iron Bash
- Fissure

Hello everyone I just wanted to post a cool melmetal team that got to #1 and 20-1 on the ladder (not that it means much this early on).
screenshot-play.pokemonshowdown.com-2020.02 (2).png


Something else I'd like to talk about is that Tmi489 said corvinight. "Ok it is a pokemon who cares". This pokemon might be significant as you can see it 6-0s this team easily that went 20-1. Corv might me the new wave or even Corvinight + Aegislash.
 
VR imo I will be using "Tiers" bc subranks dont apply(due to the low amount of viable pokemon). I will also put pokemon in the same tier in order of best to worst they will also have a brief reasoning for why I think they are this rank.

Tier 1
Eternatus-Eternamax (obvious)

Zacian-Crowned (great speed and good other stats + type)

Tier 2
Kyurem-White (Good sweeper with spikes up and dynamax, maybe should be lower)

Aegislash (Good wall immune to horn drill)

Indeedee (great sweeper with smash + stored power)

Melmetal (CB and sub + bp both can destroy teams and zacian-crowned)

Tier 3
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings (Indeedee but not as good imo not exactly the same though and it can live 1 eternamax spectral iirc Kasib berry is also cool)

Corviknight (Destroys fissure spam teams without horn drill and flamethrower)

Tier 4
Zazmenta (Fast decent bulk)

Ninjask (Fastest Pokemon)

Zazmenta-Crowned (Good but competition from other steels)

Seismitoad (Has many issues but can sweep unprepared players)

Tier 5
Grimsnarl (cool for eternamax)

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane (Melmetal but trades some physdef for spd to help vs some smashers also more attack)

Zeroara (gastro acid + electric with balloon in non TArrows meta is cool)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Things that maybe should be changed: NDM (higher) Zazmenta/Zazmenta-C (higher) Corv (lower)
 
Congrats to PH on finally getting a ladder on main again!

24 days into January. I got some news

So as it turns out, there's been a sudden change in the metagame.




The statement above is outdated. Zacian and Zamazenta in their crowned formes have recently been proven usable without any item or ability restrictions! Cheers, we can do more with these formes! Here are my initial thoughts on how I think these will affect the metagame.
There is something related to this happening with the Hackmons metas currently that seems strange and inexplicable to me. Although the above change seems to have been made effective in BH a few days ago, and always has been applied in PH, the converse case - in which a base forme Zacian/Zamazenta is sent into battle with a Rusted Sword/Rusted Shield equipped - behaves differently between the two. In BH, it will automatically be changed into its crowned forme, with its ability and potentially its moveset (Iron Head) overwritten to suit this, but in PH, no such change will occur.

E.g., with the following same set being used in the BH and PH formats...

Zamazenta @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Acrobatics
- Aqua Jet
- Autotomize

...you get these two very different outcomes:-

Balanced Hackmons
Pure Hackmons

Can anybody please explain whether this is simply an oversight or whether it accurately reflects some extremely subtle difference in how BH and PH are defined, and if so, what that difference is? Thank-you!
 
Can anybody please explain whether this is simply an oversight or whether it accurately reflects some extremely subtle difference in how BH and PH are defined, and if so, what that difference is? Thank-you!
BH wasn't updated to reflect the change that zacian/zamazenta can now be hacked without their correct forms, presumably (it used custom code for that, still used for at least zac)
 
BH wasn't updated to reflect the change that zacian/zamazenta can now be hacked without their correct forms, presumably (it used custom code for that, still used for at least zac)
Perhaps, but I'm not sure if this fully explains it. The custom behaviour seems to have been changed to cover the itemless case Ransei mentioned, while the with-item case retains the forced forme change, making the distinction between the two seem to be considered and intentional. Or was the with-item case also discovered to be possible to be hacked around in a separate, later incident that doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet?
 

Ransei

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Since my last post I've been updating and revising my team a ton in order for it to adjust to as much of the ladder as I could. I kept testing on Birth of a Titan and then decided to go for a run on my main account last night.

This is what I managed to get...

Managed to make the highest elo and GXE on the ladder, and was the first to accomplish 85 GXE. As you can see, Birth of a Titan is in the top 5 with the same team from most of my continuous testing phase. As of now I've played over 100 games with the team and am fully confident it can carry you a lot through the current meta.


Now to introduce the final sample variant of this team....


Birth of a Titan

How it works:
:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Spore
- Stealth Rock

Dragapult leads and throws rocks to help other Pokemon sweep. Dragapult is helpful for this role because it can block Rapid Spin with its ghost-type while carrying enough bulk to not get OHKOed by super effective moves. It was given Lum Berry because Spore and Nuzzle are a lot more common for leads on ldder than Taunt. Dragapult's other moves given are Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and Spore. You start off the game by throwing out Stealth Rock. Knock Off should be used after Stealth Rock if you think the opposition carries Safety Goggles. Spore can be used after Knock Off or if you don't think the opponent has Safety Goggles. Rapid Spin can be used for if the opponent throws hazards on your side and you've either put them to sleep or you'd prefer they have less hazards on your side than they already do. Neutralizing Gas of course is the best ability for this since you don't have to worry about hazards bouncing back.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Recover

Before you ask any questions, Eternamax has 160 Happiness simply because it's happy to take part in this metagame. There is no other reason. Credit to Wiso for discovering this, Eternamax can be a brutal x3 Shell Smash sweeper. This set simply Shell Smashes twice, then tries to sweep with Stored Power. The only big problem with this is, Zacian-Crowned tends to barely survive a x3 Stored Power hit after rocks, so be careful of that. I would take Mind Plate over Safety Goggles as an option but you are going to see an immense amount of people on ladder trying to Spore this beast, so I don't think it's worth it. Wiso's set had Fissure over Recover but I'm not spamming these on my team so I think it'd be better if this one were to last longer. The Eternamax is Quite nature because I want max spa but the min speed for stealing stat boosts with Spectral. Eternamax wants to wait until anything sets up since it can take a hit regardless, but by the next turn it gets the upper hand. Stored Power is its best attacking move, since it's Super Effective against other Eternamax and stacks to 260 BP after two Shell Smashes. This just guarantees you OHKOing other Eternamax if they aren't +SpD nature. If they are you have a 43.8% chance to OHKO, but rocks guarantee the KO.

:ss/indeedee:
Indeedee @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Stored Power

Over the course of a few days laddering I noticed two things. First, the Eternamax set above can really pair up well with Indeedee if Baton Pass was put over Recover (this set is below), second, Indeedee at the time had been underused and great against high ladder players. Since then it's been more frequent but still highly effective, especially when paired with Baton Pass. Indeedee also sweeps entire teams after two Shell Smashes but sometime more reliably than Eternamax, since it can't get its stats stolen and does more damage overall to ensure guaranteed OHKOs against Zacian-Crowned and Eternatus-Eternamax at x3. If you don't think the opponent has Safety Goggles you can Spore and try Shell Smashing twice, although it's much riskier for Indeedee than it is for Eternamax since Indeedee does not have as much bulk. Stored Power is its main attack move, Boomburst is used in case the opponent tries to use Sub and you can still KO (sub is pretty annoying). Alternative you can use Secret Sword or Moonblast because there have been a few high ladder Tyranitars out there, just for the sole intention of dealing with Indeedee. They aren't really common though and aren't really much effective outside taking care of this mon.

:ss/kyurem-white:
Kyurem-White @ Expert Belt
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Kyurem-White is back! I could add in Mewtwo, another Eternamax, or Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, just, I don't think the team would be fine with another Stored Power sweeper, then it'd just make itself too vulnerable to Dark-types on ladder. Kyurem-White is able to take care of some of these things and even do much to Zacian-Crowned after a Shell Smash, assuming it doesn't have Scarf. Unfortunately there are cases where Eternamax under rocks can survive after a Shell Smash and since there's a lack of recovery from this team and Kyurem-White has had a lot of close cases, I figured Expert Belt would be more reliable, however you'll need to get Eternamax into more hazard chip damage. You can replace Expert Belt with Life Orb for more damage (50% chance to OHKO +SpD Eternamax after rocks, 100% OHKO if not +SpD after rocks) but be aware Kyurem-White can get crippled quicker for it. Kyurem-White is also forced to run Modest and dynamax if it wants to sweep, but it's one of the few great dynamaxes of the format and most of your other teammates wouldn't need or be able to dynamax. For how this set is used, Kyurem-White carries Spore to inflict sleep, then Shell Smash to set up, Blizzard to hit Eternamax and most other things super effectively, then Earth Power for Zacian-Crowned. The first set ran Energy Ball until I realized absolutely no one runs Primarina so there's no need :blobshrug:. Blizzard may have 70% accuracy but when you dynamax you summon Max Hailstorm attacks that never miss and summon hail. Hail lasts for five turns, dynamax lasts for three, and Blizzard never misses under Hail so after you dynamax you still have two Blizzard attacks that can't hit. It works over other STAB moves like Ice Beam and Clanging Scales either because they don't hit as hard or type immunities could potentially have this Pokemon plummet to its end. I've also once considered Flamethrower over Earth Power but you actually don't want that on Kyurem-White since Max Flare summons sun and that can hurt your chances of hitting Blizzard. Last but not least you'll see that Kyurem-White has 44 speed EVs. This is to underspeed min speed Eternatus-Eternamax so it can Shell Smash and be given a chance before its stats can be taken.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash

Same Eternamax as the previous one on this post, just with Baton Pass over Recover. It's also incredibly happy to take part in the PH action. The difference between this set and the last one is, while the last one is intended to stay and sweep by itself, this set can Baton Pass into Indeedee if you suspect the opponent would use Spectral Thief right away. It's also harder to predict since the first one runs Recover over Baton Pass, so they won't see what's coming and Indeedee could be able to mop the floor with the other team.

:ss/necrozma-dusk-mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Sunsteel Strike
- Haze
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power

Really weird set honestly. This set is designed to deal with Comatose and Baton Pass teams using evasion gimmicks. It carries Haze because prior to then the team would actually get swept by BP teams since it had nothing to bypass their Minimize. It's also designed to deal with Indeedee by taking an attack, while also being able to take x3 Eternamax Stored Power attacks. Magic Bounce is used to bounce off Comatose Whirlwind and teams with Gastro Acid on their Wonder Guards. Sunsteel Strike breaks through those Wonder Guards, because they can still apparently be threatening, Haze simply clears every stat boost away so the team doesn't get swept by evasion gimmicks. Shell Smash is used to boost its Sunsteel Strike damage and help with a potential Stored Power sweep, and if it can get to x3 it can sweep with Stored Power. The thing has a weird Rash nature because it still blocks a x3 Stored Power from Indeedee and Eternamax regardless of whatever nature and so I'd rather have it take that than more damage through physical attacks like Knock Off and Spectral Thief. I also didn't want this to be Quiet because it wouldn't outspeed Ninjask at x2 otherwise. This is more or less just a backup for when something could go wrong for this team in battle.


Thank you all for reading. If you have any questions, concerns, or advice feel free to bring it up in this thread, or dm/pm me on Smogon, Discord, or PS. Now I'm just gonna be testing a bunch of different stuff to see what can be viable. So far I've tried a Magic Room + Roserade strat in the 1490s but that sucked because it made the team too reliant on sleep turns. I ended up getting 6-0ed by @mc56556 and losing 33 elo :(.
 
Is dynamax cannon effective against eternamax eternatus?

Looks like it isnt right now on showndown, but if it is, one from regular eternatus can actually 2hko eternamax:

+2 252+ SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus-Eternamax: 306-362 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
 

Champion Leon

Formerly OM!
Since my last post I've been updating and revising my team a ton in order for it to adjust to as much of the ladder as I could. I kept testing on Birth of a Titan and then decided to go for a run on my main account last night.

This is what I managed to get...

Managed to make the highest elo and GXE on the ladder, and was the first to accomplish 85 GXE. As you can see, Birth of a Titan is in the top 5 with the same team from most of my continuous testing phase. As of now I've played over 100 games with the team and am fully confident it can carry you a lot through the current meta.


Now to introduce the final sample variant of this team....


Birth of a Titan

How it works:
:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Spore
- Stealth Rock

Dragapult leads and throws rocks to help other Pokemon sweep. Dragapult is helpful for this role because it can block Rapid Spin with its ghost-type while carrying enough bulk to not get OHKOed by super effective moves. It was given Lum Berry because Spore and Nuzzle are a lot more common for leads on ldder than Taunt. Dragapult's other moves given are Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and Spore. You start off the game by throwing out Stealth Rock. Knock Off should be used after Stealth Rock if you think the opposition carries Safety Goggles. Spore can be used after Knock Off or if you don't think the opponent has Safety Goggles. Rapid Spin can be used for if the opponent throws hazards on your side and you've either put them to sleep or you'd prefer they have less hazards on your side than they already do. Neutralizing Gas of course is the best ability for this since you don't have to worry about hazards bouncing back.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Recover

Before you ask any questions, Eternamax has 160 Happiness simply because it's happy to take part in this metagame. There is no other reason. Credit to Wiso for discovering this, Eternamax can be a brutal x3 Shell Smash sweeper. This set simply Shell Smashes twice, then tries to sweep with Stored Power. The only big problem with this is, Zacian-Crowned tends to barely survive a x3 Stored Power hit after rocks, so be careful of that. I would take Mind Plate over Safety Goggles as an option but you are going to see an immense amount of people on ladder trying to Spore this beast, so I don't think it's worth it. Wiso's set had Fissure over Recover but I'm not spamming these on my team so I think it'd be better if this one were to last longer. The Eternamax is Quite nature because I want max spa but the min speed for stealing stat boosts with Spectral. Eternamax wants to wait until anything sets up since it can take a hit regardless, but by the next turn it gets the upper hand. Stored Power is its best attacking move, since it's Super Effective against other Eternamax and stacks to 260 BP after two Shell Smashes. This just guarantees you OHKOing other Eternamax if they aren't +SpD nature. If they are you have a 43.8% chance to OHKO, but rocks guarantee the KO.

:ss/indeedee:
Indeedee @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Stored Power

Over the course of a few days laddering I noticed two things. First, the Eternamax set above can really pair up well with Indeedee if Baton Pass was put over Recover (this set is below), second, Indeedee at the time had been underused and great against high ladder players. Since then it's been more frequent but still highly effective, especially when paired with Baton Pass. Indeedee also sweeps entire teams after two Shell Smashes but sometime more reliably than Eternamax, since it can't get its stats stolen and does more damage overall to ensure guaranteed OHKOs against Zacian-Crowned and Eternatus-Eternamax at x3. If you don't think the opponent has Safety Goggles you can Spore and try Shell Smashing twice, although it's much riskier for Indeedee than it is for Eternamax since Indeedee does not have as much bulk. Stored Power is its main attack move, Boomburst is used in case the opponent tries to use Sub and you can still KO (sub is pretty annoying). Alternative you can use Secret Sword or Moonblast because there have been a few high ladder Tyranitars out there, just for the sole intention of dealing with Indeedee. They aren't really common though and aren't really much effective outside taking care of this mon.

:ss/kyurem-white:
Kyurem-White @ Expert Belt
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Earth Power

Kyurem-White is back! I could add in Mewtwo, another Eternamax, or Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, just, I don't think the team would be fine with another Stored Power sweeper, then it'd just make itself too vulnerable to Dark-types on ladder. Kyurem-White is able to take care of some of these things and even do much to Zacian-Crowned after a Shell Smash, assuming it doesn't have Scarf. Unfortunately there are cases where Eternamax under rocks can survive after a Shell Smash and since there's a lack of recovery from this team and Kyurem-White has had a lot of close cases, I figured Expert Belt would be more reliable, however you'll need to get Eternamax into more hazard chip damage. You can replace Expert Belt with Life Orb for more damage (50% chance to OHKO +SpD Eternamax after rocks, 100% OHKO if not +SpD after rocks) but be aware Kyurem-White can get crippled quicker for it. Kyurem-White is also forced to run Modest and dynamax if it wants to sweep, but it's one of the few great dynamaxes of the format and most of your other teammates wouldn't need or be able to dynamax. For how this set is used, Kyurem-White carries Spore to inflict sleep, then Shell Smash to set up, Blizzard to hit Eternamax and most other things super effectively, then Earth Power for Zacian-Crowned. The first set ran Energy Ball until I realized absolutely no one runs Primarina so there's no need :blobshrug:. Blizzard may have 70% accuracy but when you dynamax you summon Max Hailstorm attacks that never miss and summon hail. Hail lasts for five turns, dynamax lasts for three, and Blizzard never misses under Hail so after you dynamax you still have two Blizzard attacks that can't hit. It works over other STAB moves like Ice Beam and Clanging Scales either because they don't hit as hard or type immunities could potentially have this Pokemon plummet to its end. I've also once considered Flamethrower over Earth Power but you actually don't want that on Kyurem-White since Max Flare summons sun and that can hurt your chances of hitting Blizzard. Last but not least you'll see that Kyurem-White has 44 speed EVs. This is to underspeed min speed Eternatus-Eternamax so it can Shell Smash and be given a chance before its stats can be taken.

:ss/eternatus-eternamax:
Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash

Same Eternamax as the previous one on this post, just with Baton Pass over Recover. It's also incredibly happy to take part in the PH action. The difference between this set and the last one is, while the last one is intended to stay and sweep by itself, this set can Baton Pass into Indeedee if you suspect the opponent would use Spectral Thief right away. It's also harder to predict since the first one runs Recover over Baton Pass, so they won't see what's coming and Indeedee could be able to mop the floor with the other team.

:ss/necrozma-dusk-mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Sunsteel Strike
- Haze
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power

Really weird set honestly. This set is designed to deal with Comatose and Baton Pass teams using evasion gimmicks. It carries Haze because prior to then the team would actually get swept by BP teams since it had nothing to bypass their Minimize. It's also designed to deal with Indeedee by taking an attack, while also being able to take x3 Eternamax Stored Power attacks. Magic Bounce is used to bounce off Comatose Whirlwind and teams with Gastro Acid on their Wonder Guards. Sunsteel Strike breaks through those Wonder Guards, because they can still apparently be threatening, Haze simply clears every stat boost away so the team doesn't get swept by evasion gimmicks. Shell Smash is used to boost its Sunsteel Strike damage and help with a potential Stored Power sweep, and if it can get to x3 it can sweep with Stored Power. The thing has a weird Rash nature because it still blocks a x3 Stored Power from Indeedee and Eternamax regardless of whatever nature and so I'd rather have it take that than more damage through physical attacks like Knock Off and Spectral Thief. I also didn't want this to be Quiet because it wouldn't outspeed Ninjask at x2 otherwise. This is more or less just a backup for when something could go wrong for this team in battle.


Thank you all for reading. If you have any questions, concerns, or advice feel free to bring it up in this thread, or dm/pm me on Smogon, Discord, or PS. Now I'm just gonna be testing a bunch of different stuff to see what can be viable. So far I've tried a Magic Room + Roserade strat in the 1490s but that sucked because it made the team too reliant on sleep turns. I ended up getting 6-0ed by @mc56556 and losing 33 elo :(.
Ransei, you literally stole my idea that I posted last page. It was I who stated Boomburst all along for Indeedee, and I also mentioned you emphasized Bisharp was nowhere to be seen and thus the only Dark-type that resists both of its moves is Tyranitar.

You sad reacted to it and PMed me that I didn’t know what I was talking about, and now I see you literally post the exact same set to what I stated, and even omit mention of Bisharp like I discussed.

Please be fair here and mention who came up with it first. It’s not your set if I made it.

And don’t tell me I shouldn’t post, just so you can plagarize...
Why not use Boomburst on Indeedee? Is Moonblast for Wonder Guard Dark-types, like Sabeleye? The neutral damage off of STAB is more than UnSTABbed Moonblast 210 > 190.
The reasoning for not using Boomburst wasn’t mentioned in your post...

The best check to those sweepers you posted, is probably Scarf Imposter, especially Clanging Scales Kyurem-W, V-Create Darmanitan-Zen-Galar.

I feel if you replace Spore with Clanging Scales, you could easily use Throat Spray over Safety Goggles for the KO (rather than the Expert Belt or Plate or Life Orb Tmi489 suggested).

Lastly, I would suggest Assault Vest on Primarina if you need an Imposterproof for Throat Spray Kyurem-W, as the Assault Vest will basically negate the Throat Spray boost.

I think you have some useful sets.
Lastly, like I told you, Aegislash and Dusk-Mane make much better walls that Tyranitar because they can resist or are neutral to all moves.

So they make good checks/counters.
 
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Ransei

Everyone has a story
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
Yeah in ladder we found Boomburst to be an option in case we had to hit subs. They are surprisingly common as tauntspam hadn't been prevalent. That post/argument was from before we had a ladder. A couple Dark-types have been used to give Indeedee a rough time but Eternamax and Dusk Mane have been taking their place a bit as well. It started being used on Baton Pass teams from users who haven't necessarily read this thread yet too. Don't act like you've owned this set and not allow other people to use it, even without their knowing.
 
I made a fun full zacian crowned team that is also surprisingly strong and is quite effective at stopping common strategies.

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Spectral Thief
- Head Smash
- Ice Shard
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Bolt Strike
- Accelerock
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- V-create
- High Jump Kick
- Shadow Sneak
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Gunk Shot
- Brave Bird
- Mach Punch
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet
Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Play Rough
- Icicle Crash
- Bullet Punch

It doesn't involve that much strategy to use. Lead with the zacian that has the best moves for the opposing team. For example, if the opposing team has mainly zacian crowneds and eternamaxs then use the zacian with earthquake. However if the opposing team has a dragapult I'd suggest leading with the zacian that has shadow sneak you you can OHKO it before it has a chance to use entrainment. Each zacian having priority is very useful since it allows you to OHKO any ninjasks with sheer cold or comatose whirlwinds that would wall this team. It also allows you to beat shell smash users such as kyurem or necrozma by using bullet punch and shadow sneak. Zacian is bulky enough so that you can switch to another zacian if your current locked move has a bad matchup with the opposing pokemon. An earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO on even +def eternamax if any spikes or hazards are up. I used sunsteel strike as the primary stab since it lets me beat sturdinjas and wonder guard users. You could also use behemoth bash for dynamax and double iron bash for more power and a flinch chance. You could mix the zacians up so that different ones have different stabs. Feel free to give some of them hazards or other moves/items.

This team isn't supposed to be a good team that will take you to the top of ladder. It's just for fun
 
An earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO on even +def eternamax if any spikes or hazards are up.
just keep in mind that many, if not most eternamaxes will use Neutralizing Gas, turning this calc into:
252 Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus-Eternamax: 158-188 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 13.3% chance to 4HKO
Eternamax will then be able to recover and KO any Zacian, let alone that Eternamax will be common and you have only 1 EQ Zacian.
It will be ineffective to fight any team that has the very common NGas Eternamax, making your time not fun unless your playing with friends
 
Hello everyone today I want to make a revised VR and discuss other things about PH.

screenshot-play.pokemonshowdown.com-2020.02 (25).png

S.1

Eternatus-Eternamax

S.2

Zacian-Crowned

S.3

Kyurem-White

Mewtwo

A.1

Indeedee

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

A.2

Aegislash

A.3

Mandibuzz

Umbreon

Melmetal-Gmax

B.1

Melmetal

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

B.2

Gourgeist-Super

Type: Null

Dragapult

Obstagoon

B.3

Seismitoad

Zeroara

Ninjask

Corviknight-Gmax

C1

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen

Snorlax

C2

Tyranitar

Grimsnarl

Sableye

Kyurem-Black

D (Not Recommended)

Gourgeist-Small

Gourgeist

Gourgeist-Large

Zazmenta-Crowned

Zazmenta

Hydreigon

Drifblim

Doublade

Drapion

Lapras-Gmax


Functioning cores

Indeedee (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Taunt
- Earth Power




Kyurem-White @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Shell Smash
- Flamethrower
- Baton Pass

(optional) Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Recover

This core above is built around baton passing into indeedee. You can use a slow shell smash then baton pass on the spectral thief then smash again. Dynamax and taunt help stop whirlwind. Coverage can be changed on Kyurem-White and Indeedee. Eternatus-Eternamax is optimal for makign setting up easier but not integral to the success of the core.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hazard Setter

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Roar
- Copycat

This core is nice but magic bounce is really good against it. Predicting with gastro acid on a no guard pokemon has similar affects, just takes correct predictions; with the benefit of destroying Mbounce.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eternatus-Eternamax

Great core ikr.




Random Idea: lure no guard dragapult to try to lure in Mbounce users then win with comatose. The only problem is u can afford to not go strait into your mbounce user, if it is etern. To all those laddering I would like to say consider every possibility or you will get cheese out of a win that was super easy, happened to me so many times. Also please tell me of any pokemon I forgot I will try to edit my post, I am also open to criticism of my VR.
 
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Hello, all!

I have been meaning to post about this in this thread for some time now, so I thought I would finally get around to doing so. I would like to discuss a part of the metagame that has really stood out for me, both in terms of its viability in the Gen 8 PH meta and in how splashable this can be throughout the meta. This is a discussion on the move Magic Coat in the Gen 8 PH metagame.

Background: While many people have only come to discover Gen 8 PH through the ladder it has received (via winning the OMoTM competition), we in the Old Shark room have been working on Gen 8 PH metagame development and team experimentation for a little while beforehand. I say this because I have thought about the effectiveness of using Magic Coat in the Gen 8 PH meta since before the advent of its ladder. Since the earliest days of our Gen 8 PH metagame exploration and development in the Old Shark room, I highlighted Magic Coat because of its ability to check several common threats/moves.

This may seem like an irrelevant detail, but it's important for one of the major points I have about Magic Coat's viability in this meta. A very prominent strategy in Gen 5 PH is to utilize hazard stack with Spikes and Stealth Rock and then use Prankster Groudon with Spore, Whirlwind, and Copycat. If done correctly, Copycat will mirror Whirlwind, and there is little you can do to stop the continual damage chipping by being phazed out by Groudon except for Magic Coat (and another Prankster user, in reality).
Effectiveness of Magic Coat in the Metagame: Alright, time to get into the meat of the matter! Here I'll describe some of the reasons why I think Magic Coat is very versatile and important move in this metagame.

~A set that has emerged after the creation of the Gen 8 PH ladder is Choice-Scarf-wielding Comatose Zacian-C. (The same applies here for Scarf Comatose Ninjask as well due to its speed tier.) This has become a part of Gen 8 PH in light of how it's been discovered that Zacian-C and Zamazenta-C can use abilities and items outside of their usual options (Intrepid and Rusted Sword and Dauntless and Rusted Shield, respectively). It's interesting because this is reminiscent of Gen 5 PH, actually, which is exactly why I prefaced this with the description of the Prankster Copycat/Whirlwind Groudon strategy from that Gen above. The reality is that while I have not seen very much hazard stack in Gen 8 PH so far, this could absolutely become more of a strategy. And, if you think about it, as with Gen 5 PH, there is not much to be done about this unless you run Magic Coat.
~Recently in particular in the metagame, I've seen Taunt on the rise. It can be effective in preventing recovery moves on Eternamax or other Pokémon, especially if you combine this with Sticky Web to reduce Speed. Unlike in some Gens of PH, namely Gen 4, Magic Coat can reflect Taunt back at your opponent.
~In tandem with the initial reason I mentioned above--having to do with preventing phazing out continuously, potentially to prevent accruing damage from hazard stack--prevent hazing can also help keep a set-up offensive Pokémon in play. This can take multiple forms. For me, I have been running an offensive Wonder Guard with Shift Gear. As strange as that may sound, it's been quite effective (set right below this for reference). Phazing out a Pokémon by reflecting Magic Coat before your Pokémon gets phazed can be very helpful.

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gastro Acid
- Earthquake
- Magic Coat
~This isn't quite as strong a reason for running Magic Coat, but if you go deep enough into a battle, you may be able to assess when your opponent will try and put up hazards. Counter that with Magic Coat to set up hazards on their side of the field.
~Last up here is bouncing back Gastro Acid. This actually ties into a post I would like to make soon after this one. :) Gastro Acid is another of the most important moves in the meta depending on the construct of your team. If you are using a Wonder Guard user, you can use Gastro Acid on a Neutralizing Gas user to prevent your Pokémon from being damaged. If you are using No Guard in combination with a OHKO move(s), you can try and use Gastro Acid to nullify Neutralizing Gas. There are many uses for Gastro Acid, but in this specific case, using Magic Coat to prevent Gastro Acid from being used on your Pokémon can be very helpful in the course of a battle.

Thanks for reading, all, and I hope this helps as you ladder/teambuild in Gen 8 PH!
 

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