Also Malignant Chain is a special move (would not benefit with Tidy Up)
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Metagame Pure Hackmons
- Thread starter lag=bad
- Start date
Please stop flooding the thread when you have the ability to edit your posts after posting. Additionally, no one's obliged to create a Pure Hackmons team with flat-out outclassed 'mons on a competitive Pure Hackmons metagame thread, especially with the detailed explanations like lag=bad has been making. The Pure Hackmons Discord server's better for this sort of discussion - here's the link: https://discord.gg/PUfzpdcbsU
(This is my first post so its probably trash) I want to nominate my team for the sample team because baton pass is broken:
Car Crashers (pokepast.es)
One of the main ideas I've come up with for gen 9 bpass is to deny removal of substitute/stat boosts and keep wguard mons as healthy as possible. This is done by threatening them with sunsteel strike, taunt or imprison tidy up. Good as gold can deny whirlwind, curse and perish song. Mega-Gyarados is the sweeper of choice since it has the strongest power trip that can still ohko imposter blissey after 2 ssmashes, surging strikes is a stab move and multi hit, go past opponents substitutes and the occasional mimikyu/eiscue.
Things you should watch out for:
Sleep-
Sleep moves are strong vs this team since it can stop momentum and nothing can take a sleep (before the sub) other than eternatus
Imposter-
Although imposter isn't as strong vs this team due to substitute being up the majority of the time, it is still a problem if your opponent gets imposter in vs a mon that hasn't imprisoned yet, minimized eleki or mega sciz
Prankster-
Prankster can disrupt using a variety of tactics. (Curse, imprison, taunt, encore, disable, haze etc.) You can tera dark arceus to remedy some of these flaws.
Losing mons-
There is no revival blessing on this team, so conserve your mons
One of the main ideas I've come up with for gen 9 bpass is to deny removal of substitute/stat boosts and keep wguard mons as healthy as possible. This is done by threatening them with sunsteel strike, taunt or imprison tidy up. Good as gold can deny whirlwind, curse and perish song. Mega-Gyarados is the sweeper of choice since it has the strongest power trip that can still ohko imposter blissey after 2 ssmashes, surging strikes is a stab move and multi hit, go past opponents substitutes and the occasional mimikyu/eiscue.
Things you should watch out for:
Sleep-
Sleep moves are strong vs this team since it can stop momentum and nothing can take a sleep (before the sub) other than eternatus
Imposter-
Although imposter isn't as strong vs this team due to substitute being up the majority of the time, it is still a problem if your opponent gets imposter in vs a mon that hasn't imprisoned yet, minimized eleki or mega sciz
Prankster-
Prankster can disrupt using a variety of tactics. (Curse, imprison, taunt, encore, disable, haze etc.) You can tera dark arceus to remedy some of these flaws.
Losing mons-
There is no revival blessing on this team, so conserve your mons
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Sub minimize regieleki is also useful to have. eternatus also acts as a cleric with wish, toxic is nice to wear down certain mons that would otherwise pressure the team
some first impressions, tidy up imprison seems mediocre at best, given that it leaves you weak to other forms of anti-setup. so perhaps taunt or spore might work better to prevent sub loss. Toxic is whatever, but because of lunar dance's prevalence, it isn't doing much, it might be better off as a hazard or other supporting move. Scarf on gyarados is, something, given bpass and Mroom in addition to the two attacks. Heavy duty boots, leftovers, or even life orb might be better suited to this pokemon. Seismitoad's tera type isn't doing anything, consider replacing it for something that either resists grass, or something to stop moldy moves. Regieleki and Msciz's tera types aren't doing anything, again consider replacing them for different defensive roles. Your team does not have a good answer to magic bounce, and no answer to perish song outside of taunt. Psong can be baton passed to a GaG mon, and it will still affect them afaik. your team also does not have an answer to offensive huge power mons outside of pray for boosts or minimize. if a huge power mon with half decent coverage is able to shell smash, then they can freely moldy move + corrosive gas through your team. All in all, it's a nice start, and I would suggest taking inspiration from PH's full subpass sample team for gen7, which may help improve your own team. Finally, revival blessing is just a must, it's so vital to the meta, that teams without it are at a woeful disadvantage. It may be hard to fit it, but you need at least one or two of the move on every team, preferrably with a way to restore it's pp, but if there isn't, at least 2 somewhere on the team are just a huge asset.
Thank you for the advice on my team, jsyk tho: psong doesnt affect gag.
magic bounce having few answers and huge power being weren't much of a problem for me during testing of similar teams i used with the bpass shell smash structure. Magic bounce was easy to ignore since only one mon got affected by it and moldy moves dont bypass wonder guard due to ability shield + sub
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if Psong is baton passed to a GaG mon, the GaG mon will still die to perish song. One other thing, the team doesn't have any way to stop a bulky haze mon. You can taunt with eleki, but there isn't anything that can actually deal with haze outside of that, the opponent can just bring in a hazer whenever, and freely remove your boosts
This isnt the custom game thread. However, you can look on the pure hackmons or custom game discord to talk about custom game teambuilding. Hope this helps!
If im not mistaken there isnt a custom game thread, however the pure hackmons and cgame discord I can link: https://discord.gg/4xY5hJcZqt and https://discord.gg/W9WCdhg
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/655-stat-glitch-and-its-place-in-tiering.3672135/ and
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sword-shield-battle-mechanics-research.3655528/post-8630207
Yes, this mechanic occurs in-game. Pure Hackmons aims to mimic what happens on cartridge, and the technical explanation is in the thread I linked.
Why is Zoroark-Hisui is moved to A+ rank?
Non-Last Respects-weak Wonder Guard that's also immune to trapping via Shadow Tag. While you're weak to Dark type and are therefore weak to Knock Off/Ceaseless Edge etc., that also means you can discourage opposing Imposter from switching in by threatening Knock. I haven't played the post-DLC2 meta much but I'd imagine AShield sets enjoy only being weak to Dark coverage (which competes with Last Respects and doesn't hit a whole lot besides Zoroark).
SAMPLE TEAM SUBMISSION
(because the current one is outdated)
(because the current one is outdated)
Solgaleo functions as a mid-late game sweeper, with Tidy up and Taunt to support the team and offer the occasional hazard removal, while also buffing its sunsteel strike. Tera steel just allows for even stronger sunsteel strikes, possibly allowing for otherwise unlikely kills.
Muk is one of the 3 wonder guards that make up the core, with knock off to hit magic bounce or good as gold pokemon, while also offering damage on common dark/psychic type offensive threats, with spikes as the other open move to chip opponents. Tera water mixes up the weaknesses, and shores up the sunsteel problem.
Steelceus is run because it resists 2/3 mold breaker moves, and is not affected by toxic spikes/toxic. Earth plate is run to imposter proof, while also threatening opposing regieleki, perish song stops subpass chains. Tera ground is to OHKO chipped Pdon
Arceus dark was chosen because of it's immunity to prankster, decent speed tier, and high bulk, allowing for relatively consistent revival passes. Sticky web better enables Calyrex/unsetup solgaleo. So it was chosen over stacking more spikes/rocks/tspikes. Tera fairy is used to try and just mix up the defensive weaknesses.
Meloetta is a phenomenal pokemon, with decent defenses, and an immunity and a resist to moldy moves, it walls many of the common offensive threats at least decently. Spore + corrosive gas can be used to make progress, or to attempt to shut down an impending sweep. Tera steel shores up the Sunsteel problem, while also not compromising other important weaknesses.
Caly-s is the teams other main way of making progress, as from behind a sub it can safely corrosive gas or throw out powerful photon geysers at weakened teams. Tera dark is to shore up the last respects/moongeist weakness, while also resisting dark and being immune to prankster.
This was on the shorter side of explanations, so if there are any further questions about the teams I'd be happy to answer them as they come up.
Some thoughts and change requests that have come from experimentation during post-dlc2 meta.
Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is one of many resources that are made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in alphabetical order. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokemon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are being reasonable. The council will then take thought into each nomination and carefully form decisions regarding them. Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokemon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be the closer to fact than subjective opinions.
Due to the centralization of the metagame, each full letter rank will have at most two subranks, with each denoted with a + or - symbol if a letter rank has two.
S Rank
S+
Regieleki
Wonder Guard
S-S Rank
S+
S-
A Rank
A+
Arceus
Calyrex-Shadow
Kartana
Ludicolo
Slaking
Zoroark-Hisui
A-
Arceus-Fairy
Arceus-Water
Escavalier
Ferrothorn
Muk-Alola
Sableye-Mega
Swampert-Mega
B Rank
Dondozo
Gyarados
Flutter Mane
Ogerpon-Wellspring
C Rank
Arceus-Ghost
Blissey
Eternatus
Farigiraf
Gengar-Mega
Groudon-Primal
Meloetta
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Pidgeot-Mega
Pheromosa
Scizor-Mega
Scovillain
Venusaur-Mega
Chansey
Lopunny-Mega
A Rank
A+
A-
Arceus-Grass
Mewtwo-Mega-X
B Rank
Aerodactyl-Mega
Electrode-Hisui
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Ting-Lu
C Rank
Arceus-Ground
Calyrex-Ice
Diancie-Mega
Deoxys-Attack
Giratina
Gourgeist-Super
Gyrarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Sceptile-Mega
Wonder guards -
Yveltal - UR -> A+, this thing is really great into a lot of good pokemon right now. Neutral on fighting is great, meaning you can run a fighting/steel resist to try and predict coverage from Ngas sweepers not wanting to risk getting revenged for clicking LR, or the standard tera normal to deal with LR above 400-500 bp. It also has the added benefit of comfortably checking most huge power besides steels, although I would expect this to change as more variety in sweeper sets/coverage comes up. Flying stab is also nice as it allows for running coverage against Mlop/MMX.
Zacian - UR -> A-, Outspeeds Mlop and MMX, has super effective stab, and still has decent bulk. I think it fits onto less team structures than a few of the other wonder guards, but it's still pretty good.
Ludicolo - A+ -> B, I just haven't seen this guy do anything really noteworth beyond dlc-2. It's outclassed in a lot of ways, and it's niche has kind of been removed thanks to huge power photon geyser being a big threat still. I don't think it's very bad, but when it's role can be performed better by a lot of pokemon, it doesn't feel like it should be as high as it is.
Slowbro-mega - UR -> C. Checks a lot of huge power sweepers, but really struggles due to ghost weakness. I can't see this being very good in a lot of places but it does deserve to be ranked.
General stuff -
substitute is really good. Especially if you have a fast taunter to support it. Blocking corrosive gas is great, and with 500+bp moves being very common, having a guaranteed safe hit is always great.
Huge power - I think this really needs more exploration before I come to a final stance on it. In testing it has been really good as a support/lategame sweeper to Ngas pokemon, which can force out wonder guards to remove their items, and then have huge power photon/sunsteel in the back to sweep. But they also work great on their own, given that not a lot of teams are prepared, and with a lot of pokemon hovering around 50% hp a lot of the time, they can really apply a lot of pressure even through resists.
Aside from this, there really hasn't been as much exploration on my end as I was hoping I would do. I've found a lot of sets I like, and a lot of interesting ideas like shed tail, but nothing incredibly overpowering or meta-shifting. I think that where things are right now look good though, and would highly recommend anyone interested in trying out the format experiment with different techniques. I'll link some of my more recent teams below, I think there is still a lot of room for development in this format, but I'll come back to this later after more testing.
Teamdump. - some of these are better than others, so use at your own risk.
I haven't played any Gen 9 PH games in forever or bothered to update the resources in a very long time, and at this point I feel I'm undeserving of tier leader/council. Therefore, I'll be passing this meta on to someone I know is more committed to it. lag=bad is your new Gen 9 PH leader. Congratulations!
Also stepping down from Gen 9 council
Also stepping down from Gen 9 council
wow, can I be gen 9 council too then
https://pokepast.es/22144085edc44809
Team I built for Fc in PHPL week 2, when SV PH was the featured wildcard metagame. Spore's broken when Ability Shield/Shed Shell are generally far more valuable items than Safety Goggles, Shed Tail's basically impossible to consistently answer despite having taken a relative backseat throughout the metagame's progression, and Power Trip, unlike Last Respects, lacks immunities and therefore is absolutely broken. Imposter can also steal Revival Blessings if necessary, as happened once in Fc's game, and it also potentially forces out opposing Neutralizing Gas sweepers (though it doesn't necessarily threaten a countersweep due to Neutralizing Gas not being copied by Ability Shield Imposter). Bit weak to (but doesn't have an unplayably bad matchup against) Baton Pass and I would've changed the Tera type on Zarude had I gotten the chance to earlier but a solid team nonetheless.
Team I built for Fc in PHPL week 2, when SV PH was the featured wildcard metagame. Spore's broken when Ability Shield/Shed Shell are generally far more valuable items than Safety Goggles, Shed Tail's basically impossible to consistently answer despite having taken a relative backseat throughout the metagame's progression, and Power Trip, unlike Last Respects, lacks immunities and therefore is absolutely broken. Imposter can also steal Revival Blessings if necessary, as happened once in Fc's game, and it also potentially forces out opposing Neutralizing Gas sweepers (though it doesn't necessarily threaten a countersweep due to Neutralizing Gas not being copied by Ability Shield Imposter). Bit weak to (but doesn't have an unplayably bad matchup against) Baton Pass and I would've changed the Tera type on Zarude had I gotten the chance to earlier but a solid team nonetheless.
Here is the team I used in PHPL the other night: https://pokepast.es/c5e22f622945b711
Here's the team with some fixes: https://pokepast.es/53d94f2822958d21
This was my thought process:
Wonder Guards are forced to run Ability Shield most of the time in order to keep their ability against Neutralizing Gas. Neutralizing Gas would stomp the whole team otherwise. There's not gonna be much room for these Pokémon to run Safety Goggles or Shed Shell. Spore is quite broken enough to warrant Safety Goggles more than Shed Shell for dire cases like preventing a Neutralizing Gas sweeper from immediately putting anything to sleep and being given free turns to use Shell Smash and Magic Room. With all this in mind I figured I could maybe exploit these liabilities by baiting Wonder Guard Pokémon in with one No Guard, trap the Wonder Guard Pokémon with Shadow Tag, Perish Song the Wonder Guards out, then proceed to sweep the rest of the game with a second No Guard. I ran two No Guard Pokémon for a quick back-up in case I lost one but also to gain flexibility in determining which type of No Guard would end the game more proficiently. After Wonder Guards are down, Choice Scarf No Guard beats the majority of things but is risky to use against common Neutralizing Gas sweepers. Ability Shield Wonder Guard can overcome Neutralizing Gas if already in, but risks being outsped and knocked out by opposing Choice Scarf Pokémon. I determined running two No Guard Pokémon was best.
I had Mega Aerodactyl in mind for Shadow Tag but determined Regieleki would be better for the role due to its speed. Because opposing Regieleki are a major threat in this metagame and are good Wonder Guard Pokémon on their own, I needed to make sure I had the fastest Shadow Tag user possible for this. The set is your typical Shadow Tag Perish Song trapper. I wanted Encore + Taunt to really ensure almost nothing had the chance to escape. This Regieleki originally had Recover but I replaced it with Wicked Torque after noticing the high frequency of Ghost-type Wonder Guard Pokémon present in the Gen 9 metagame. The Ghost-types were usually frail and or x4 weak to Dark, so I figured Wicked Torque would be enough to harshly punish them. Air Balloon was given under the off-chance that I could trap a No Guard Fissure or a Primal Groudon as well.
For the dual No Guards, I could not overlook Regieleki and Regieleki being the best Pokémon to choose from for these roles, especially with opposing Regieleki being a major defensive and potentially offensive threat in the metagame that was important to outspeed or at least win a speed tie against. The failure to outspeed opposing Regieleki could result in the No Guard Pokémon getting KOed back or you letting them pull off Revival Blessing for free. One of the Regieleki has Lunar Blessing. It was meant to be Lunar Dance; my bad.
I also slapped a Comatose Sleep Talk Revival Blessing to get my team back in case I lost vital Pokémon. It's that stupid valuable of a strategy. Regieleki was chosen for this role because when it comes to consistently reviving Pokémon, it's critical to move before as many things as possible so you don't get frequently blocked by Taunt or annihilated by x2 Spe sweepers.
If you weren't able to tell yet, Regieleki is quite spectacularly the best Pokémon to use in Gen 9 Pure Hackmons and it's not even close. It can really pull off anything and is better at most things than every or nearly every single other Pokémon is at doing that thing.
This resulted in the team being Regieleki spam. I did not plan this team thinking it'd be Regieleki spam beforehand. It just kinda happened because the Pokémon is that insane.
Mega Audino is on the team because -- textbook great Wonder Guard. Not sure there's a better Wonder Guard Pokémon in the metagame. Being a bulky Normal/Fairy-type is more valuable than ever before. It's completely immune to Last Respects (the most broken attack move in the game because it gets rewarded by teammates fainting then beats literally everything except normal-types and possibly bulky dark-types). Mega Audino also forces less convenient answers to it than any other Dark-type or Normal-type, as Mega Lopunny and Mega Mewtwo X being some of the most prominent Last Respects users in the metagames did not help other Last Respects soakers and Last Respects users overall have to jump through more hurdles with their attacks to consistently destroy a Mega Audino.
Resisting Neutralizing Gas Power Trip is also an enormous plus as rampant stat-boosting has been a more common thing lately, making Power Trip's effectiveness go up.
Mega Audino competition for the top Wonder Guard slot tends to be Regieleki or Ghost-type Wonder Guards. I don't think Regieleki could be the best Wonder Guard in a metagame where they're forced to run Ability Shield most of the time, as this makes life WAY easier for No Guard to overcome it now.
I'll be honest I've ran Ghost-type Wonder Guards a lot prior to the match against Fc and the more I've used them the more my faith in them has been draining. Weak to Last Respects? Weak to Knock Off? Weak to Ceaseless Edge? Weak to Power Trip? Multiple of some of the best attacks in the game simultaneously, spammed everywhere with less workarounds and effects more punishing than any other attack in the game? Destroyed by random Shadow Sneak Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X and cannot hope to outspeed despite being a Calyrex-Shadow? Yeah no thanks. Embodiment of inconsistent. These guys demand Terastallization more often than other Wonder Guards and that's a bad look when you'd rather Terastallize a Neutralizing Gas sweeper. Hisuian Zoroark is immune to Ghost-type moves thankfully but being weak to Dark-type still sucks and Zoroark doesn't last too long with wet paper bulk.
The team above (the team Fc) used has a Ludicolo who on paper looks like it'd be a great use in the metagame. I haven't seen it much yet, but it could help for resisting Sunsteel Strike and blocking Spore against Kartana and Primal Groudon that are everywhere. Should pair up perfectly with Mega Audino in a potentially ideal team. I don't think Ludicolo would be within the same rank because having the ability to block Last Respects is far too valuable for the best Wonder Guards to not be able to accomplish, but it probably isn't too far.
This team's Mega Audino had typical support moves then U-Turn and Shed Shell in the off-chance that Fc would somehow try the same Shadow Tag + No Guard strategy against me. I wasn't sure.
I did some insane overthinking on Arceus. What was needed was a couple things.
1) A sweeper who could serve as a back-up in case No Guard couldn't seal the win
2) A secondary blocker of OHKO moves in case I was up against an opposing No Guard Pokémon
3) An attacker who could survive at least 1 hit from opposing Kartana and Primal Groudon
+2 252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Neutralizing Gas Arceus: 322-379 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Wonder Guard was given to Arceus at first but I decided to change to Neutralizing Gas in case Shadow Tag couldn't successfully take down all opposing Wonder Guard Pokémon in the game. Neutralizing Gas allowed for Arceus to clean games more effectively under tight situations.
When Arceus was given Neutralizing Gas, I decided to make it Ice-type + Tera Flying in order to bait No Guard Pokémon into using Fissure or bait Kartana/Primal Groudon into using Sunsteel Strike/Precipice Blades thinking they'd KO the Arceus. Terastallizing into Flying-type would have Arceus survive their move then give it a free turn to Shell Smash and hopefully outspeed in order to finalize the game.
Wonder Guard Mega Audino was also a great improof for this Arceus as it was the one of not many Pokémon who could wall it decently well.
I'm not sure how good this team is but I felt confident it could win a game. This was built earlier last week and my opponent came to me preferring a bo1. I'm ngl, I also preferred a bo1 especially after what I saw while using my other teams to help lag=bad test his baton pass chain team.
Here's the team with some fixes: https://pokepast.es/53d94f2822958d21
This was my thought process:
Wonder Guards are forced to run Ability Shield most of the time in order to keep their ability against Neutralizing Gas. Neutralizing Gas would stomp the whole team otherwise. There's not gonna be much room for these Pokémon to run Safety Goggles or Shed Shell. Spore is quite broken enough to warrant Safety Goggles more than Shed Shell for dire cases like preventing a Neutralizing Gas sweeper from immediately putting anything to sleep and being given free turns to use Shell Smash and Magic Room. With all this in mind I figured I could maybe exploit these liabilities by baiting Wonder Guard Pokémon in with one No Guard, trap the Wonder Guard Pokémon with Shadow Tag, Perish Song the Wonder Guards out, then proceed to sweep the rest of the game with a second No Guard. I ran two No Guard Pokémon for a quick back-up in case I lost one but also to gain flexibility in determining which type of No Guard would end the game more proficiently. After Wonder Guards are down, Choice Scarf No Guard beats the majority of things but is risky to use against common Neutralizing Gas sweepers. Ability Shield Wonder Guard can overcome Neutralizing Gas if already in, but risks being outsped and knocked out by opposing Choice Scarf Pokémon. I determined running two No Guard Pokémon was best.
I had Mega Aerodactyl in mind for Shadow Tag but determined Regieleki would be better for the role due to its speed. Because opposing Regieleki are a major threat in this metagame and are good Wonder Guard Pokémon on their own, I needed to make sure I had the fastest Shadow Tag user possible for this. The set is your typical Shadow Tag Perish Song trapper. I wanted Encore + Taunt to really ensure almost nothing had the chance to escape. This Regieleki originally had Recover but I replaced it with Wicked Torque after noticing the high frequency of Ghost-type Wonder Guard Pokémon present in the Gen 9 metagame. The Ghost-types were usually frail and or x4 weak to Dark, so I figured Wicked Torque would be enough to harshly punish them. Air Balloon was given under the off-chance that I could trap a No Guard Fissure or a Primal Groudon as well.
For the dual No Guards, I could not overlook Regieleki and Regieleki being the best Pokémon to choose from for these roles, especially with opposing Regieleki being a major defensive and potentially offensive threat in the metagame that was important to outspeed or at least win a speed tie against. The failure to outspeed opposing Regieleki could result in the No Guard Pokémon getting KOed back or you letting them pull off Revival Blessing for free. One of the Regieleki has Lunar Blessing. It was meant to be Lunar Dance; my bad.
I also slapped a Comatose Sleep Talk Revival Blessing to get my team back in case I lost vital Pokémon. It's that stupid valuable of a strategy. Regieleki was chosen for this role because when it comes to consistently reviving Pokémon, it's critical to move before as many things as possible so you don't get frequently blocked by Taunt or annihilated by x2 Spe sweepers.
If you weren't able to tell yet, Regieleki is quite spectacularly the best Pokémon to use in Gen 9 Pure Hackmons and it's not even close. It can really pull off anything and is better at most things than every or nearly every single other Pokémon is at doing that thing.
This resulted in the team being Regieleki spam. I did not plan this team thinking it'd be Regieleki spam beforehand. It just kinda happened because the Pokémon is that insane.
Mega Audino is on the team because -- textbook great Wonder Guard. Not sure there's a better Wonder Guard Pokémon in the metagame. Being a bulky Normal/Fairy-type is more valuable than ever before. It's completely immune to Last Respects (the most broken attack move in the game because it gets rewarded by teammates fainting then beats literally everything except normal-types and possibly bulky dark-types). Mega Audino also forces less convenient answers to it than any other Dark-type or Normal-type, as Mega Lopunny and Mega Mewtwo X being some of the most prominent Last Respects users in the metagames did not help other Last Respects soakers and Last Respects users overall have to jump through more hurdles with their attacks to consistently destroy a Mega Audino.
Resisting Neutralizing Gas Power Trip is also an enormous plus as rampant stat-boosting has been a more common thing lately, making Power Trip's effectiveness go up.
Mega Audino competition for the top Wonder Guard slot tends to be Regieleki or Ghost-type Wonder Guards. I don't think Regieleki could be the best Wonder Guard in a metagame where they're forced to run Ability Shield most of the time, as this makes life WAY easier for No Guard to overcome it now.
I'll be honest I've ran Ghost-type Wonder Guards a lot prior to the match against Fc and the more I've used them the more my faith in them has been draining. Weak to Last Respects? Weak to Knock Off? Weak to Ceaseless Edge? Weak to Power Trip? Multiple of some of the best attacks in the game simultaneously, spammed everywhere with less workarounds and effects more punishing than any other attack in the game? Destroyed by random Shadow Sneak Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X and cannot hope to outspeed despite being a Calyrex-Shadow? Yeah no thanks. Embodiment of inconsistent. These guys demand Terastallization more often than other Wonder Guards and that's a bad look when you'd rather Terastallize a Neutralizing Gas sweeper. Hisuian Zoroark is immune to Ghost-type moves thankfully but being weak to Dark-type still sucks and Zoroark doesn't last too long with wet paper bulk.
The team above (the team Fc) used has a Ludicolo who on paper looks like it'd be a great use in the metagame. I haven't seen it much yet, but it could help for resisting Sunsteel Strike and blocking Spore against Kartana and Primal Groudon that are everywhere. Should pair up perfectly with Mega Audino in a potentially ideal team. I don't think Ludicolo would be within the same rank because having the ability to block Last Respects is far too valuable for the best Wonder Guards to not be able to accomplish, but it probably isn't too far.
This team's Mega Audino had typical support moves then U-Turn and Shed Shell in the off-chance that Fc would somehow try the same Shadow Tag + No Guard strategy against me. I wasn't sure.
I did some insane overthinking on Arceus. What was needed was a couple things.
1) A sweeper who could serve as a back-up in case No Guard couldn't seal the win
2) A secondary blocker of OHKO moves in case I was up against an opposing No Guard Pokémon
3) An attacker who could survive at least 1 hit from opposing Kartana and Primal Groudon
+2 252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Neutralizing Gas Arceus: 322-379 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Wonder Guard was given to Arceus at first but I decided to change to Neutralizing Gas in case Shadow Tag couldn't successfully take down all opposing Wonder Guard Pokémon in the game. Neutralizing Gas allowed for Arceus to clean games more effectively under tight situations.
When Arceus was given Neutralizing Gas, I decided to make it Ice-type + Tera Flying in order to bait No Guard Pokémon into using Fissure or bait Kartana/Primal Groudon into using Sunsteel Strike/Precipice Blades thinking they'd KO the Arceus. Terastallizing into Flying-type would have Arceus survive their move then give it a free turn to Shell Smash and hopefully outspeed in order to finalize the game.
Wonder Guard Mega Audino was also a great improof for this Arceus as it was the one of not many Pokémon who could wall it decently well.
I'm not sure how good this team is but I felt confident it could win a game. This was built earlier last week and my opponent came to me preferring a bo1. I'm ngl, I also preferred a bo1 especially after what I saw while using my other teams to help lag=bad test his baton pass chain team.
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Hello! While I haven't been able to do much work recently, I finally have some time, which means a few things, namely:
- UR to A-
seeing use in phpl, as well as on multiple teams in roomtours, kartana has established itself as a strong setup or huge power mid to lategame sweeper, taking advantage of set variety shifting between wonder guard and huge power, supported by it's fantastic attack and stab sunsteel strike, making it a dangerous threat to any team
- UR to B
Special sweepers haven't seen as much use, placing it lower than slaking for it's reduced physical bulk that could potentially see it living some hits otherwise, however a great stat spread and strong normal typing always deserve a placement.
Wonder guards!
UR -> B+
Outspeeding both MMX and Mlop, zacian has the bulk to take a gigaton hammer from neutralizing gas Mlop and mmx at full, then fire back with Magical torque hitting for guaranteed ohko's after a revival or chip on lop. Zacian works well as an offensive faster pivot, capable of passing substitutes to teammates and taunting opponents tidy up users that aren't eleki. Being able to also deal not meaningless chip to common bouncers, 2HKOing arceus after a revival. Furthermore, zacian's speed tier combined with a lack of magic coat means that it can consistently shut down slower pivots with taunt, further enabling sweeper teammates.
UR -> B+
Like zacian, but applies even more pressure to the super-common normal mons like arc, slaking, and Mlop. Again, strong speed tier + ability to pressure many top wg's, and on top of that it hits steels too. their typings actually hold them back there, seeing as they are weak to or don't resist some of the best coverage options, and their speed tier can easily be mitigated with boost and or webs, compounding on this is their lack of arceus-level bulk, meaning that unless they outspeed, they are at high risk of being taken out.
UR -> B
Yveltal resists last respects, isn't weak to collision course, and isn't weak to ground moves. However the ice weakness is pretty damning. Yveltal can threaten Neutralizing gas mons, apply pressure to huge powers with strong stab flying moves, and provides a reasonable improof to others. However, a middling speed tier and ice + rock weakness means that yveltal is held back from standing with other top tier wonder guards, despite it's strengths. I would like to put it higher, however no guard prevalent in any generation, especially with a pokemon like eleki running around, and so needing to design other checks into your team for no guard beyond the standard dual wonder guards hinders it's viability. It isn't bad, just that ice weakness is a real struggle.
I know this is still a shorter post, and more work involving sample team updates, as well as potentially work on a role compendium or other resources will come over the weekend, but I am looking forward to working more on this meta!
VR UPDATE!
Rises -
- UR to A-seeing use in phpl, as well as on multiple teams in roomtours, kartana has established itself as a strong setup or huge power mid to lategame sweeper, taking advantage of set variety shifting between wonder guard and huge power, supported by it's fantastic attack and stab sunsteel strike, making it a dangerous threat to any team
- UR to BSpecial sweepers haven't seen as much use, placing it lower than slaking for it's reduced physical bulk that could potentially see it living some hits otherwise, however a great stat spread and strong normal typing always deserve a placement.
Wonder guards!
UR -> B+Outspeeding both MMX and Mlop, zacian has the bulk to take a gigaton hammer from neutralizing gas Mlop and mmx at full, then fire back with Magical torque hitting for guaranteed ohko's after a revival or chip on lop. Zacian works well as an offensive faster pivot, capable of passing substitutes to teammates and taunting opponents tidy up users that aren't eleki. Being able to also deal not meaningless chip to common bouncers, 2HKOing arceus after a revival. Furthermore, zacian's speed tier combined with a lack of magic coat means that it can consistently shut down slower pivots with taunt, further enabling sweeper teammates.
UR -> B+Like zacian, but applies even more pressure to the super-common normal mons like arc, slaking, and Mlop. Again, strong speed tier + ability to pressure many top wg's, and on top of that it hits steels too. their typings actually hold them back there, seeing as they are weak to or don't resist some of the best coverage options, and their speed tier can easily be mitigated with boost and or webs, compounding on this is their lack of arceus-level bulk, meaning that unless they outspeed, they are at high risk of being taken out.
UR -> BYveltal resists last respects, isn't weak to collision course, and isn't weak to ground moves. However the ice weakness is pretty damning. Yveltal can threaten Neutralizing gas mons, apply pressure to huge powers with strong stab flying moves, and provides a reasonable improof to others. However, a middling speed tier and ice + rock weakness means that yveltal is held back from standing with other top tier wonder guards, despite it's strengths. I would like to put it higher, however no guard prevalent in any generation, especially with a pokemon like eleki running around, and so needing to design other checks into your team for no guard beyond the standard dual wonder guards hinders it's viability. It isn't bad, just that ice weakness is a real struggle.
I know this is still a shorter post, and more work involving sample team updates, as well as potentially work on a role compendium or other resources will come over the weekend, but I am looking forward to working more on this meta!
Sample teams Update!
Adding -
https://pokepast.es/035352749c5dbccf - Pure Hackmons' shed tail offense
https://pokepast.es/fd675961b61ba40a - Aninjadude's shed tail etern
https://pokepast.es/d66809958246ef4c - my own subpass offense
yknow I'm noticing a slight theme, probably a coincidence
Moving to legacy -
- Shadow Tag Regieleki + Neutralizing Gas Lopunny by aerobee
Adding -
https://pokepast.es/035352749c5dbccf - Pure Hackmons' shed tail offense
https://pokepast.es/fd675961b61ba40a - Aninjadude's shed tail etern
https://pokepast.es/d66809958246ef4c - my own subpass offense
yknow I'm noticing a slight theme, probably a coincidence
Moving to legacy -
- Shadow Tag Regieleki + Neutralizing Gas Lopunny by aerobee
vr noms, take these with a grain of salt as i haven't played high level games that often and finding high level games outside of phpl is somewhat difficult
probably drop to a, haven't seen this that much and last respects immunity isn't as crucial as it isn't on every single team anymore, not as good as blobs imo
could move to s, better than chansey although this isn't a necessary change imo
a at least, definitely the most threatening gas sweeper and it's on 3 sample teams, i don't see why this shouldn't move up tbh
other mons i haven't used enough to have an opinion on them, giratina could maybe move up to b though but i don't think i've used it enough to say for sure
probably drop to a, haven't seen this that much and last respects immunity isn't as crucial as it isn't on every single team anymore, not as good as blobs imo could move to s, better than chansey although this isn't a necessary change imo a at least, definitely the most threatening gas sweeper and it's on 3 sample teams, i don't see why this shouldn't move up tbhother mons i haven't used enough to have an opinion on them, giratina could maybe move up to b though but i don't think i've used it enough to say for sure