Purging ancient BW stuff off the Dex (quick project)

[Oglemi]

Some context: Back when BW was the current generation, the SCMS used at the time allowed us to simply "hide" old analyses on the dex while still keeping them intact on the SCMS. In this way we were able to simply hide an analysis rather than deleting it when tier shifts happened (ie. Amoonguss playing plinko in the tiers). Now, however, there's not an option to hide analyses on the CMS, so we just delete stuff when tier shifts happen, and then either reupload or rewrite when stuff needs to be readded.

The other side to this is that the stuff that was previously hidden on the SCMS is now visible on the Dex. This means that really, really ancient stuff is now there. Luckily, this only affects BW. However, it's still pertinent that this ancient stuff be removed to retain our quality level of only showing things that are viable in the metagame.

Where I need help is determining what exactly should all be removed and what can be kept on the Dex. I'm gonna tag a bunch of people that I know are still at least somewhat familiar with BW. Just post here with the stuff that you think should/can be removed. This is extremely informal, and I will only remove something if it's suggested and no one argues against (or if there's way more support to remove rather than keep). Remember, nothing that is in that tier or in the BL tier below it can be removed. Also, if you're a badgeholder, remember that you can also add edits on the Dex yourself when you come across something you think doesn't look right.

Do note that this could also affect Ubers, but I am wholly unfamiliar with that tier so I won't list anything here. If you guys do happen to find something, feel free to leave a post here as well. steelskitty Theorymon Edgar Kebabe Blim FLCL

Questionable things (imo) with OU analyses:
Full list here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/formats/ou/

Hide

Accelgor
Aerodactyl
Arcanine
Archeops
Aron
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Charizard
Cofagrigus
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Crustle
Drapion
Durant
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Eelektross
Electivire
Escavalier
Exeggutor
Gallade
Galvantula
Garbodor
Golurk
Gorebyss
Hitmontop
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kabutops
Klinklang
Krookodile
Liepard
Lilligant
Medicham
Meloetta
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Omastar
Parasect
Probopass
Rotom
Rotom-C
Sawsbuck
Sceptile
Sigilyph
Snorlax
Spiritomb
Throh
Venomoth
Volbeat

Questionable Pokemon (imo) with UU analyses:
Full list here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/formats/uu/

Hide

Altaria
Bouffalant
Cacturne
Carracosta
Charizard
Cinccino
Cradily
Drifblim
Dusknoir
Electivire
Floatzel
Fraxure
Galvantula
Gorebyss
Gurdurr
Huntail
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kabutops
Kangaskhan
Lickilicky
Machoke
Manectric
Murkrow
Ninjask
Pinsir
Raichu
Regirock
Rotom-S
Rotom-F
Sawsbuck
Shelgon
Shiftry
Simipour
Stoutland
Tauros
Throh
Ursaring
Walrein
Weezing
Wynaut
Zweilous

Questionable Pokemon (imo) with RU analyses:
Full list here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/formats/ru/

Hide

Cacturne
Camerupt
Flareon
Floatzel
Kingler
Lapras
Masquerain
Meganium
Metang
Mr. Mime
Ninjask
Rapidash
Rotom-S
Rotom-F
Serperior
Shelgon
Simipour
Throh
Wynaut

Finchinator Lavos dice KratosMana McMeghan BKC We Three Kings Hikari r0ady col49 Kink Accelgor august The Leprechaun Windsong SilentVerse Nails Tokyo Tom Jirachee

If you guys know of anyone else that would have an opinion on these, please hit them up and get them to leave a quick post here, or just let you know on discord. Thanks for any and all help with this!

 

[Kink]

On the BW UU side had a chance to look at the first two, Altaria and Bouff, both look fine. I'll try to look at the rest throughout the coming week.

 

[august]

Flareon has a (small) niche in BW RU as a special wall with wish support that can wall some of the more dangerous fire types (aside from Moltres but does well vs Magmortar and co) as well as Lilligant special Sceptile etc. Rotom-f is still a viable Scarfer even without hail support at the end of the day. I have seen him used post hail ban. Purge the rest they’re all bad

 

[SilentVerse]

tbh most of the BW RU analyses are severely outdated and at least half of them probably need to be rewritten (but I'm not sure there's anyone who cares enough at this point). IMO these analyses should definitely be removed:

Hide

Arbok
Camerupt
Gabite
Kingler
Lapras
Masquerain
Mr. Mime
Muk
Rapidash
Serperior
Shelgon
Throh
Ursaring
Wynaut
Zweilous

These ones are kinda questionable, but I can at least see myself using them. Could either remove or keep these.

Hide

Armaldo (it spins + rocks but it kinda really sucks)
Flareon (what august said, it's kinda bad b/c it gets eaten by hazards but it has a niche)
Floatzel (cb + switcheroo and speed make it neat since it's not deadweight vs Alomomola and can do things vs offense, but probably too weak)
Kadabra (speed tier + encore over sigilyph, unsure if that's enough)
Lickilicky (dtail is neat, but unsure if that's enough to use it over Clefable)
Meganium (grass check + ground resist is kinda a cool combo + dtail to abuse spikes. nothing really shares its niche. very limited though)
Metang (bad, but it's a bulky steel type with SR that can switch into some spooky things)
Ninjask (speed pass is probably abusable in some way)
Pinsir (speed tier is neat, but I don't think it does enough)
Regice (ice stab + twave is nice. generally unsure why i'd run this over clefable or cryogonal though)
Simipour (fast special water with nasty plot is a niche, but probably not good enough)
Vileplume (probably outclassed by Amoonguss, but speed tier gives bulky lo sets a bit of a niche)

Rotom-F is really good and should definitely stay. Rotom-S is decent since it can switch into both grasses and Durant unlike the other Rotom forms. Cacturne seems ok as a spiker that can actually do dmg to things.

 

[steelskitty]

for ou i'd say

Accelgor - can probs(?) stay. haven't used it myself, but final gambit and yawn and stuff gives it a niche over other suicide leads like froslass.
Aerodactyl - keep aero, he's a viable dude. there's that old dragonuser team that uses him as a lead, and even outside of that role he has the movepool to do some pretty cool stuff.
Arcanine - get rid of him. he gets dicked by some of the most common mons in the tier.
Archeops - totally useless and can go.
Aron - would advocate for keeping. not because we want to be encouraging people to use it, necessarily, but rather because it's nice to have what it does as a reference if a noob comes up against it.
Bouffalant - don't really buy that it has a niche.
Carracosta - just use cloyster
Charizard - just use volcarona
Cofagrigus - exists on the fringe of viability. i know sugarhigh has a tr team with cofagrigus, so he can speak to whether it's worth keeping around or not.
Cradily - better in dpp. never seen it, but probably not viable. it checks washtom, but, then again, so does everything else. a protect set beats most gyarados, which is cute, but why would you run this over ferrothorn?
Crawdaunt - kinda hesitant to just flat-out dismiss it. it's cb terrakion levels of strong, but minus terrakion's killer speed and everything else that makes terrak good. there's theoretically a trick room team out there that runs this and gets a kill with it every time it comes in.... i'd probably lean toward the not viable side (i mean who uses trick room regularly lol), if only because there are cb users that're better than it on other teams.
Crobat - you know, i don't know if i've seen this, but i think it's viable. at first glance it looks like it's outclassed by gliscor, but thinking more about it i'm not sure. for one it's way faster than gliscor, meaning it can rk things like alakazam and keldeo. secondly it's a very good breloom check, in addition to being ~ok~ vs things like mienshao. also, fast taunt is just...cool.
Crustle - probably not viable. the support set looks like a shitty forretress, and the shell smash set, though amusing, can't break common guys like garchomp and landorus-t.
Drapion - when the only set's first sentence reads "This set is Drapion's best attempt at competing in the OU environment," you know that's not a good sign
Durant - keep durant. yeah, its STABs suck and it's pretty frail on the SDef side, but it's just fast enough to use its monstrous hustle-boosted attack to fuck shit up. being faster than terrakion and keldeo is very nice for it. stiff competition with scizor but i could see it working on like 1 or 2 teams.
Dusclops - the sets they run aren't entirely similar, but i would have a hard time justifying this over jellicent on most teams. ditch it imo.
Dusknoir - see dusclops when it comes to using this defensively. the other sets look more than a little gimmicky.
Eelektross - no defensive synergy with anything (i guess you switch in on tornadus once lol). it's also not really strong enough. not viable.
Electivire - see eelektross except somehow worse.
Escavalier - i know this sees some rare use but i don't think it's all that great. pretty impossible to justify over scizor or (rarely) metagross imo. even durant is better. would scrap.
Exeggutor - nah.
Gallade - the dex presents this as an inferior mienshao. to be clear, it pretty much is. i guess psycho cut is nice for tentacruel/amoonguss, but is that really enough of a niche over a mon with regenerator, way stronger STAB, u-turn, and a much better speed stat? probably not, especially given that gallade doesn't really check anything either.
Galvantula - reject.
Garbodor - this should stay around. unlike most of these, the analysis isn't that old, and it clearly has a niche nothing else does.
Golurk - yeah get rid of this. it wasn't even good back in like 2013.
Gorebyss - smashpass isn't legal anymore and the shell smash set on its own is hardly that great. would purge this one.
Hitmontop - would get rid of him. foresight spin isn't that great of a gimmick given that bw is very much not a ghost-heavy meta, and the defensive typing and bsts suck.
Jumpluff - chloro ban makes this useless if it was even good in the first place.
Jynx - this is basically bw ou's darkrai. super busted offensively, doesn't take on anything defensively. would advocate for keeping this thing's analysis up.
Kabutops - one of the most matchup-oriented guys in the tier. even then it's a hard sell over kingdra because at least kingdra can sometimes set its own rain. would remove.
Klinklang - why did this even get an analysis in the first place?
Krookodile - scarf set is impossible to justify over tyranitar, bulk up set is impossible to justify over hydreigon.
Liepard - the set in the analysis should of course be removed. a prankster + assist set is viable on an assist team. dunno if that's too gimmicky to be analysis-worthy, though. it does win games....
Lilligant - see jumpluff
Medicham - bad mienshao, would delete.
Meloetta - doesn't check really anything. mixed attacker is theoretically strong vs a lot of the tier, but it's pretty impossible to justify running the other sets over reuniclus or alakazam. mixed attacker, too, is probably trying to do too much in too few slots. could probably remove this one safely.
Nidoking - viable. i don't know if i'd ever run scarf on it, but the life orb special attacker is comparable to hydreigon in terms of power. also, it resists stealth rock and absorbs tspikes, both of which are also pretty cool for the sorts of teams you'd see this on.
Nidoqueen - i'd say it has a niche. i don't think it's very good, but toxic spikes are great and nidoqueen is decently physically bulky. if you want tspikes and you're running sand this is one of the few options you have for them. biggest competition is w/ forretress but i'd say nidoqueen has a clear niche over that.
Omastar - like, just use kingdra.
Parasect - the competition with breloom as a spore user and toxicroak as a dry skin user is too strong. would remove.
Probopass - in ubers, where latis only rarely run surf, this guy is actually one of the best switch-ins vs them. it also works like magnezone when it comes to trapping steels, except it has access to taunt. i would probably remove the FEAR set and put a support set in its place. it's never going to be great, but i think it has at least a small niche.
Rotom - why not use washtom? at least that isn't going to lose to tyranitar as soon as it comes in.
Rotom-C - i don't really buy that this is good at all. its bsts and movepool aren't that great, and you also have to justify it over rotom-w every time you want to slot it somewhere. ditch this one.
Sawsbuck - see lilligant
Sceptile - what the fuck????? sceptile??????????????
Sigilyph - theoretically a pretty novel idea, but in practice i couldn't see it ever actually working. sigilyph isn't very strong, nor is it gifted with a good defensive typing, nor a good speed. it has no surprise value and it takes a number of boosts for stored power to do really anything. it might work versus a team with no offensive presence and no taunt user, but, then again, what wouldn't?
Snorlax - the analysis champions this as a silver bullet vs chloro sun teams. even if we keep snorlax's analysis (i don't think we should) it's probably harmful to keep the parts about venu in there.
Spiritomb - i don't think it's strong or defensively useful enough to warrant keeping the analysis around.
Throh - the analysis' first paragraph, much like throh's sigature move, is circular. "throh is good because it's a bulky fighting type in ou, and its bulkiness makes it good," it basically reads. the rest of it somehow goes even further downhill than that. old(er)heads itt: was this thing ever good?
Venomoth - i mean, sleep powder, i guess.
Volbeat - ditch him.

there's a lot of stuff to remove from bw ubers too. none of these guys see usage, so nothing here should be very controversial:

scizor - bad genesect.
heracross - bad terrakion. not quite unviable, but i don't know if anyone outside of, like, kebabe is ever gonna use this.
kyurem-b - okay, it hits really fucking hard, and that's about it. that's not (and shouldn't ever be) a niche in ubers, especially given how much kyurem-b sucks outside its raw attack stat.
ditto - the problem with it isn't so much that it doesn't check anything, but rather that once it does check something it's never going to do anything besides that. whatever it's copying simply isn't going to be strong enough or have that one kill-all move that wins the game (that move doesn't actually exist in bw ubers).
venusaur - a worse shiftry, if that was even possible.
abomasnow - hail isn't viable in bw ubers and neither is abomasnow.
mew - you know, the lead set is on the edge of viability. i'd say it's wrong to encourage new players to use it, though.
metagross - in the thousands of bw ubers games i've played, not once have i actually seen this.
bisharp - not only is it unviable, the first sentence of its analysis reads: "[y]ou better 'be sharp' when you face Bisharp!"
lucario - too frail, slow, and weak.
keldeo - see lucario.
shedinja - everything has a move that hits this, or hazards, or something. even at +6atk, though, it's still way too weak.
hydreigon - not really strong or fast enough, is it?
jynx - imagine people advocating for this as a kyogre check. it learns thunder, you know.
jumpluff - when wasn't this a gimmick?
whimsicott - basically see jumpluff. worse skymin. yikes...
tornadus - tornadus-t already sucks, and the two are pretty similar.

i'm sure there's way more but that should be a good start, yea?

 

[Oglemi]

tbh most of the BW RU analyses are severely outdated and at least half of them probably need to be rewritten (but I'm not sure there's anyone who cares enough at this point). IMO these analyses should definitely be removed:

Hide

Arbok
Camerupt
Gabite
Kingler
Lapras
Masquerain
Mr. Mime
Muk
Rapidash
Serperior
Shelgon
Throh
Ursaring
Wynaut
Zweilous

These ones are kinda questionable, but I can at least see myself using them. Could either remove or keep these.

Hide

Armaldo (it spins + rocks but it kinda really sucks)
Flareon (what august said, it's kinda bad b/c it gets eaten by hazards but it has a niche)
Floatzel (cb + switcheroo and speed make it neat since it's not deadweight vs Alomomola and can do things vs offense, but probably too weak)
Kadabra (speed tier + encore over sigilyph, unsure if that's enough)
Lickilicky (dtail is neat, but unsure if that's enough to use it over Clefable)
Meganium (grass check + ground resist is kinda a cool combo + dtail to abuse spikes. nothing really shares its niche. very limited though)
Metang (bad, but it's a bulky steel type with SR that can switch into some spooky things)
Ninjask (speed pass is probably abusable in some way)
Pinsir (speed tier is neat, but I don't think it does enough)
Regice (ice stab + twave is nice. generally unsure why i'd run this over clefable or cryogonal though)
Simipour (fast special water with nasty plot is a niche, but probably not good enough)
Vileplume (probably outclassed by Amoonguss, but speed tier gives bulky lo sets a bit of a niche)

Rotom-F is really good and should definitely stay. Rotom-S is decent since it can switch into both grasses and Durant unlike the other Rotom forms. Cacturne seems ok as a spiker that can actually do dmg to things.

Agree with everything except that I would actually advocate still for Muk (and not just because I wrote it 9.9). It hard walls Rotom-C, which is a godsend for stall teams (even blocks Trick cuz Sticky Hold), as well as stuff like Sceptile and Lilligant. Obviously comes at the opportunity cost of either running it with Roselia or Qwilfish (doubling down on Psychic weakness) or without (no Spikes), but it pairs so nicely in a Alo/Tomber/Cryo composition that I would have a hard time saying it doesn't have a notable niche in the meta, even if no one uses it anymore.

 

[sugarhigh]

Yeah the only reason why I would say keep the bw ou analysis for cofagrigus is that is a decent pokemon that can use trickroom if person was looking for that. Outside of that it really doesn't need an bw ou analysis especially for how niche it is. If it was up to me I, I would get rid of it on the dex (even though that pains me cuz i love it lmao.)

 

[Kebabe]

scizor - bad genesect.
heracross - bad terrakion. not quite unviable, but i don't know if anyone outside of, like, kebabe is ever gonna use this.
kyurem-b - okay, it hits really fucking hard, and that's about it. that's not (and shouldn't ever be) a niche in ubers, especially given how much kyurem-b sucks outside its raw attack stat.
ditto - the problem with it isn't so much that it doesn't check anything, but rather that once it does check something it's never going to do anything besides that. whatever it's copying simply isn't going to be strong enough or have that one kill-all move that wins the game (that move doesn't actually exist in bw ubers).
venusaur - a worse shiftry, if that was even possible.
abomasnow - hail isn't viable in bw ubers and neither is abomasnow.
mew - you know, the lead set is on the edge of viability. i'd say it's wrong to encourage new players to use it, though.
metagross - in the thousands of bw ubers games i've played, not once have i actually seen this.
bisharp - not only is it unviable, the first sentence of its analysis reads: "[y]ou better 'be sharp' when you face Bisharp!"
lucario - too frail, slow, and weak.
keldeo - see lucario.
shedinja - everything has a move that hits this, or hazards, or something. even at +6atk, though, it's still way too weak.
hydreigon - not really strong or fast enough, is it?
jynx - imagine people advocating for this as a kyogre check. it learns thunder, you know.
jumpluff - when wasn't this a gimmick?
whimsicott - basically see jumpluff. worse skymin. yikes...
tornadus - tornadus-t already sucks, and the two are pretty similar.

I agree with the above, Whimsicott is the only thing that should be kept of these: sub-seed, encore, memento stun-spore, can actually be useful.

More to remove is:
Beartic (?????)
Gorebyss (if smash pass works its with smeargle)
Victreebell (also a worse shiftry I guess)
Stunfisk (I think the fact that it got an analysis was a meme)

 

[Bughouse]

I agree with the above, Whimsicott is the only thing that should be kept of these: sub-seed, encore, memento stun-spore, can actually be useful.

More to remove is:
Beartic (?????)
Gorebyss (if smash pass works its with smeargle)
Victreebell (also a worse shiftry I guess)
Stunfisk (I think the fact that it got an analysis was a meme)

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stunfisk-qc-3-3-gp-2-2.3542353/
TBH it's not written like a joke analysis but yeah from the approvals it is clearly a joke since no one gave any feedback... so yeah definitely remove it or make it more obviously a joke...

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

Just wanted to give my opinion on things I think should stay for BW OU out of the list provided above:

Aerodactyl: Was on that Dragonuser team but haven’t seen it outside that, this can be pushed either way.

Crobat: Checks some good stuff in the tier while having some good defensive utility in Taunt, Speed, and typing. Haven’t seen one in a tournament game like ever in recent memory but these are supposed to cater to casuals so it could be ok.

Liepard: Roar+Spikes is actually really annoying to deal with, the niche is very much there. I could see reasons against keeping it but it can do something of slight note.


Other stuff not on the list that should be cut in my opinion:

Bisharp: Haven’t seen this in a tournament let alone any high level game and it doesn’t seem to have much of a notable niche, especially with Tyranitar so omnipresent, the metagame in general, and lack of Knock Off for strong STAB.

Chandelure: The Rain centric metagame, Tyranitar’s prominence, and the top threats in general leave pretty much no niche in this thing. It also hasn’t done much in any big games or teams. if you want a strong Fire-type breaker, use Heatran or even Victini.

Darmanitan: See above except part about Victini applies even more.

Empoleon: If removing specific sets is possible, just remove every set except the SubPetaya one, that set can work with Celebi or Mew Baton Pass support somewhat.

Flygon: Literally just a worse Garchomp, Latios, and or Hydreigon in every possible way and does nothing of remote value to make it worth anything.

Heracross: Just a worse Terrakion, Mienshao, and or Keldeo as a Scarf Fighting-type or even a wallbreaking Fighting-type. It’s typing doesn’t make it stick out and has seen no notable use in recent times.

Kabutops: Can’t Swift Swim anymore and has nothing else to show.

Kingdra: See above.

Ludicolo: See above and it’s worse Amoonguss and Ferrothorn defensively.

Machamp: Too slow, can’t break better than the competition mentioned before with Heracross. Conkeldurr is this thing except better and even it’s not that good.

Raikou: Just a worse Thundurus with no showings of a niche in the current metagame as it is. Hasn’t been seen in forever.

Scrafty: See Machamp or Heracross.

Seismitoad: Just a worse Gastrodon in every way and is also outclassed by Tentacrul and other Water-types offensively and defensively. Swift Swim is gone too so that isn’t an option. Hasn’t been seen in forever either.

Sharpedo: Doesn’t bring any niche to the table that’s worth noting and most of it’s analysis just shits on how bad it is anyway. Just use Keldeo or something else for an offensive Water-type.

Swampert: See Seismitoad. Banded Superpower for Ferrothorn isn’t a good enough niche to let it stay imo. By that logic, a lot of shit would have a niche.

Togekiss: One of the few I’m not too sure on. Thundurus and Tornadus outclass it offensively super hard with not too great defensive typing for the metagame and hasn’t seen much use but there may be a niche I’m not seeing outside just being an annoying piece of shit.

Uxie: If possible, take off the screens set, it’s done better by Azelf and even Xatu somewhat.

Venemoth: Baton Pass clause made one set illegal and the other is just worse Volcarona.

Virizion: Just a worse Breloom, Mienshao, and Terrakion physically and specially usually a worse Keldeo. Has some defensive utility but so does Breloom. Maybe I’m not seeing something here but doesn’t seem worth keeping.

Weavile: Sure it’s faster than most of the metagame but Tyranitar is better in almost every way, it’s rocks weak, most if not all the meta checks or counters it, and doesn’t even have the better version of Knock Off yet. And it hasn’t seen any use in a long time.

Whimsicott: If you need to use one of these trash Grass-type annoyers with bad stats, just do Jumpluff. What’s there to say?

That’s all I found, let me know if I missed something.

 

[Stoward]

Definitely find this thread fascinating as someone who didn't really get into competitive mons until very late oras/early SM, so using the smogon dex and VR etc has been really helpful for me to learn new tiers.

I started to get into BW a few months ago. It started off with BW ubers as I love me some broken mons, but I've also been really enjoying BW OU and it's been quite frustrating to see that both the VR and the analyses are ridiculously outdated, as it means that newer players are basically stuck with samples (which when you type/tier gen 5 ou into PS, it directs you to this post, which was last edited in 2015). While the ladder in BW OU is virtually non-existant. It's safe to say that the meta has changed significantly since 2015. At least the C&C section and the VR is somewhat more recent than that, but ultimately, unless you know people that already play BW, you're not going to have a good time getting into this tier. Which is a shame because it's a lot of fun to play. I'm not trying to have a go at the BW staff, other gens are just as guilty of not updating their resources, but since the topic has been brought up, I thought I'd add my 2c.

I think both the VR and the C&C section need updating. Ultimately I'd like to see these resources to a similar standard to that of the USM OU VR thread, which has links to current analyses for each pokemon - meaning that you can clearly see a more accurate representation on the current USM OU Metagame. While I see the argument that there aren't enough people available to manage these threads, there have been competent players such as z0mOG who said that they'd be happy to join a BW VR council, and with Smogtours and Classic going on right now, I'm sure that there would be a lot of people that would gladly follow suit.

As for going through the analysis list. While I'm sure there are analyses that have been updated recently, the fact that there is still a Dugtrio analysis, when Arena Trap was banned about a year ago, the Excadrill analysis still has a Sand Rush set, and analyses such as the Heatran (A pokemon in the A rank in the VR) analysis still mention Dugtrio as being a threat, give me the idea that we need to do a complete review of all of our BW C&C Section. As for anaylses that should/can be removed. I'd argue that less is more. If something isn't on the VR, then I don't see much of a reason to have an analysis for it.

 

[Finchinator]

Pokemon that are listed in the OP that should be removed, IMO

Accelgor
Aerodactyl
Arcanine
Archeops
Aron
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Charizard
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Crustle
Drapion
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Eelektross
Electivire
Escavalier
Exeggutor
Gallade
Galvantula
Garbodor
Gorebyss
Hitmontop
Jumpluff
Kabutops
Klinklang
Krookodile
Lilligant
Omastar
Parasect
Probopass
Rotom
Sawsbuck
Sceptile
Sigilyph
Spiritomb
Throh
Venomoth
Volbeat

 

[Wizard]

Keeping Durant and Rotom-C while axing Aerodactyl seems unreasonable to me. So is recognizing Snorlax's defensive qualities while ignoring pokemon that actually showed up in tours like Sigilyph (M Dragon), Archeops (Lavos), Probopass (SW). These are all unique pokemons with distict niches just like the Snorlax, Golurk etc you are saving. I believe we should only focus on removing actual garbage mons like Electivire, Sceptile, Eelektross and Drapion rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Also someone should keep the Chlorophyll analyses in storage and readily available for re-upload in the case the Drought+Chloro ban is lifted in the future.

Edit: I'm saving all the OU analyses for archive purposes on my desktop. @People from the future if you ever need these materials contact me

 

[Oglemi]

Looking for some more UU input. I'll then give a final warning with a list of the stuff brought up here so far and then I'll go through and delete stuff. Kink r0ady col49 Hikari Ernesto anybody else you guys think would have an opinion on things tell them to post here.

 

[LuckOverSkill]

I have been meaning to suggest how I would proceed at some point in time, and this thread seems perfect for it.

BW analyses are outdated, even on the flagship mons (Latios and Tyranitar for example) and they all need a revamp, but the amount of work to put into writing fully fledged analyses is not worth it because of the lack of manpower, the amount it would take, and in general how many people would look at them compared to SM analyses.

Having just a collection of sets with 3-4 bullet points about each one of them is how I would revamp the BW dex. A recap of what the mon does.

The positives of doing this are:

• Analyses are easier and faster to make, making the whole procedure smoother.
• Analyses are easier to maintain and update, should main sets or the metagame change.
• Anyone with any resemblance of competence in the tier would be able to write an analysis. The GP team (do we still have these?) will take much less time to approve stuff, and same for QC.

No other dex is like this, and I'd rather have a good and updated dex than keep it bad for the sake of consistency. Eventually, all dexes would become like the one I propose anyway.

The reason I am suggesting this also comes from an end user's point of view: when I am in the process of building a team, and I am looking for how to utilize a certain Pokémon, all I want to see is a collection sets with a couple pointers (what the evs do, what I should switch it into / out of what is its main role on a team), I do not really care about reading at length about how Stealth Rocks turn certain 3HKOs into 2HKOs on the switch, and even then, the calculations shown (for example in Latios' and Keldeo's analyses) are outdated.

Regarding the question presented in the OP, here's the Pokémon I would remove, most others will be fine with an update regarding their sets:

Hide

Accelgor
Arcanine
Aron
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Charizard
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Crustle
Drapion
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Eelektross
Electivire
Exeggutor
Farfetch'd
Flygon
Gallade
Galvantula
Garbodor
Gorebyss
Jumpluff
Klinklang
Krookodile
Liepard
Ludicolo
Magikarp - I don't know what the stance in on obviously meme entries
Medicham
Meloetta
Parasect
Raikou
Rotom
Sceptile
Spiritomb
Throh
Unown - Same as Magikarp
Venomoth
Volbeat
Zoroark

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

I have been meaning to suggest how I would proceed at some point in time, and this thread seems perfect for it.

BW analyses are outdated, even on the flagship mons (Latios and Tyranitar for example) and they all need a revamp, but the amount of work to put into writing fully fledged analyses is not worth it because of the lack of manpower, the amount it would take, and in general how many people would look at them compared to SM analyses.

Having just a collection of sets with 3-4 bullet points about each one of them is how I would revamp the BW dex. A recap of what the mon does.

The positives of doing this are:

• Analyses are easier and faster to make, making the whole procedure smoother.
• Analyses are easier to maintain and update, should main sets or the metagame change.
• Anyone with any resemblance of competence in the tier would be able to write an analysis. The GP team (do we still have these?) will take much less time to approve stuff, and same for QC.

No other dex is like this, and I'd rather have a good and updated dex than keep it bad for the sake of consistency. Eventually, all dexes would become like the one I propose anyway.

The reason I am suggesting this also comes from an end user's point of view: when I am in the process of building a team, and I am looking for how to utilize a certain Pokémon, all I want to see is a collection sets with a couple pointers (what the evs do, what I should switch it into / out of what is its main role on a team), I do not really care about reading at length about how Stealth Rocks turn certain 3HKOs into 2HKOs on the switch, and even then, the calculations shown (for example in Latios' and Keldeo's analyses) are outdated.

I’ve been working with Finch and We Three Kings on revamps for many OU analyses. This isn’t a bad idea of how to do things and makes it easier to write these revamps. The only thing is I’d say there should be a bit more than 4 bullet points, mainly because I find mentioning potential teammates important (many good BW pokemon have many good teammates). Unless you mean 4 bullet points a section (section meaning use tips and moves) with a basic breakdown. If you could go more into detail with this idea, it’d be appreciated.

 

[Kink]

Pokemon that can be outright removed:

• Machoke
• Pinsir
• Murkrow
• Shelgon
• Zweilous
• Manectric
• Jumpluff
• Floatzel
• Fraxure
• Sawsbuck
• Walrein
• Wynaut

Pokemon that need a revamp:

• Bouffalant
• Altaria
• Cacturne
• Cradily (but is likely useless since sand stream is banned in UU)
• Drifblim
• Dusknoir
• Ursaring

I didn't go through EVERY single analysis so there may be a couple more on your list Oglemi that should be looked at, but these are the ones that stood out the most to me.

 

[LuckOverSkill]

I’ve been working with Finch and We Three Kings on revamps for many OU analyses. This isn’t a bad idea of how to do things and makes it easier to write these revamps. The only thing is I’d say there should be a bit more than 4 bullet points, mainly because I find mentioning potential teammates important (many good BW pokemon have many good teammates). Unless you mean 4 bullet points a section (section meaning use tips and moves) with a basic breakdown. If you could go more into detail with this idea, it’d be appreciated.

First off, thank you for your effort. 4 is just an arbitrary number, I didn't really put any thought behind it, there could be way more bullet points, what I'd like to see is all the fluff that's unnecessary removed. Here's a quick mock-up of an analysis to let you see what I mean:

Latios

• One of the most dangerous Pokémon of the tier, fast, powerful, abuses Spikes and Rain, still functions in sand
• Only has 3 real counters, and 2 of them are conditional and all of them are weak to Spikes

Set 1: Choice Specs
[set with draco dpulse surf sleep talk with trick slashed and whatever else, sorry I can't access ps right now)
• Trademark set, hits incredibly hard, Draco Meteor nukes everything, it is also immune to Spikes
• Dragon Pulse is incredibly powerful with Spikes up, and allows Latios to clean lategame
• Tyranitar is the best counter, followed by Ferrothorn in Rain and specially defensive Jirachi

The same goes for other sets.

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

First off, thank you for your effort. 4 is just an arbitrary number, I didn't really put any thought behind it, there could be way more bullet points, what I'd like to see is all the fluff that's unnecessary removed. Here's a quick mock-up of an analysis to let you see what I mean:

Latios

• One of the most dangerous Pokémon of the tier, fast, powerful, abuses Spikes and Rain, still functions in sand
• Only has 3 real counters, and 2 of them are conditional and all of them are weak to Spikes

Set 1: Choice Specs
[set with draco dpulse surf sleep talk with trick slashed and whatever else, sorry I can't access ps right now)
• Trademark set, hits incredibly hard, Draco Meteor nukes everything, it is also immune to Spikes
• Dragon Pulse is incredibly powerful with Spikes up, and allows Latios to clean lategame
• Tyranitar is the best counter, followed by Ferrothorn in Rain and specially defensive Jirachi

The same goes for other sets.

I think that as a very basic skeleton seems ok. Of course, we’ll add a bit more like for checks and stuff. But this could work even for gens older than BW. I actually have a Latios analysis on paper im about to transfer to pc, so any thoughts on me making analyses like this after Latios is done? If you don’t mind, maybe you can work with me for the first few with this new format if we choose to do it?

 

[LuckOverSkill]

Yes, it does not have to be that succinct, I was just writing the first things that came to my mind to give an outline of how I would proceed.

I will gladly help you out if this format gets chosen.

 

[Blim]

there's a lot of stuff to remove from bw ubers too. none of these guys see usage, so nothing here should be very controversial:

scizor - bad genesect.
heracross - bad terrakion. not quite unviable, but i don't know if anyone outside of, like, kebabe is ever gonna use this.
kyurem-b - okay, it hits really fucking hard, and that's about it. that's not (and shouldn't ever be) a niche in ubers, especially given how much kyurem-b sucks outside its raw attack stat.
ditto - the problem with it isn't so much that it doesn't check anything, but rather that once it does check something it's never going to do anything besides that. whatever it's copying simply isn't going to be strong enough or have that one kill-all move that wins the game (that move doesn't actually exist in bw ubers).
venusaur - a worse shiftry, if that was even possible.
abomasnow - hail isn't viable in bw ubers and neither is abomasnow.
mew - you know, the lead set is on the edge of viability. i'd say it's wrong to encourage new players to use it, though.
metagross - in the thousands of bw ubers games i've played, not once have i actually seen this.
bisharp - not only is it unviable, the first sentence of its analysis reads: "[y]ou better 'be sharp' when you face Bisharp!"
lucario - too frail, slow, and weak.
keldeo - see lucario.
shedinja - everything has a move that hits this, or hazards, or something. even at +6atk, though, it's still way too weak.
hydreigon - not really strong or fast enough, is it?
jynx - imagine people advocating for this as a kyogre check. it learns thunder, you know.
jumpluff - when wasn't this a gimmick?
whimsicott - basically see jumpluff. worse skymin. yikes...
tornadus - tornadus-t already sucks, and the two are pretty similar.

i'm sure there's way more but that should be a good start, yea?

Sounds about right, + Beartic / Gorebyss / Victreebell / Stunfisk as Kebabe already mentioned, all of this stuff is super niche / highly questionable and scrapping the razor thin edge of viability at best. I also think that Gyarados is long overdue for being removed too.

 

[Oglemi]

I have been meaning to suggest how I would proceed at some point in time, and this thread seems perfect for it.

BW analyses are outdated, even on the flagship mons (Latios and Tyranitar for example) and they all need a revamp, but the amount of work to put into writing fully fledged analyses is not worth it because of the lack of manpower, the amount it would take, and in general how many people would look at them compared to SM analyses.

Having just a collection of sets with 3-4 bullet points about each one of them is how I would revamp the BW dex. A recap of what the mon does.

The positives of doing this are:

• Analyses are easier and faster to make, making the whole procedure smoother.
• Analyses are easier to maintain and update, should main sets or the metagame change.
• Anyone with any resemblance of competence in the tier would be able to write an analysis. The GP team (do we still have these?) will take much less time to approve stuff, and same for QC.

No other dex is like this, and I'd rather have a good and updated dex than keep it bad for the sake of consistency. Eventually, all dexes would become like the one I propose anyway.

The reason I am suggesting this also comes from an end user's point of view: when I am in the process of building a team, and I am looking for how to utilize a certain Pokémon, all I want to see is a collection sets with a couple pointers (what the evs do, what I should switch it into / out of what is its main role on a team), I do not really care about reading at length about how Stealth Rocks turn certain 3HKOs into 2HKOs on the switch, and even then, the calculations shown (for example in Latios' and Keldeo's analyses) are outdated.

Regarding the question presented in the OP, here's the Pokémon I would remove, most others will be fine with an update regarding their sets:

Hide

Accelgor
Arcanine
Aron
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Charizard
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Crustle
Drapion
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Eelektross
Electivire
Exeggutor
Farfetch'd
Flygon
Gallade
Galvantula
Garbodor
Gorebyss
Jumpluff
Klinklang
Krookodile
Liepard
Ludicolo
Magikarp - I don't know what the stance in on obviously meme entries
Medicham
Meloetta
Parasect
Raikou
Rotom
Sceptile
Spiritomb
Throh
Unown - Same as Magikarp
Venomoth
Volbeat
Zoroark

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/changing-the-current-analysis-format-second-attempt.3642146/
I would read the most recent discussion we had on analysis format. As someone that's been around the block (a lot) I can summarize that bullet points are nice for getting things through QC and to get pen to paper (which is the biggest hurdle so it gets a +1 there), but in the end, analyses are better finalized in paragraph form for multiple reasons. The most prominent being that most people don't know how to write for bullet points, despite them being easier to format for a skeleton and to highlight big ideas (they usually tend to write paragraphs in bullet form a.a). Summarily, bullet points are inadequate for anything deeper than the most basic of information, which we try to avoid, and they actually discourage deeper interaction with our analyses due to lack of narrative (bad for new users).

Not to say they aren't useful, I've been playing with different ways to present stuff come Gen 8 so there may be ~new things~ on the horizon.

Anyway, thank you for the input, and I'm sure people will be looking for your input on any BW revamps that come through here.

 

[Oglemi]

OK, Last Call on the following mons, will delete in a few days. Thank you to everyone that gave some input, it was much appreciated. I've culminated those that were brought up here and had little to no opposition, and in my own research in what's been used in tournaments (with success) and that doesn't have a very notable niche.

Uber:

Hide

Abomasnow
Beartic
Bisharp
Ditto
Gorebyss
Gyarados
Heracross
Hydreigon
Jumpluff
Jynx
Keldeo
Kyurem-B
Lucario
Metagross
Scizor
Shedinja
Stunfisk
Tornadus
Venusaur
Victreebel
Whimsicott

OU

will keep the joke things for now

Accelgor
Arcanine
Archeops
Aron
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Charizard
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Crustle
Drapion
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Electivire
Escavalier
Exeggutor
Farfetch'd
Flygon
Gallade
Galvantula
Gorebyss
Hitmontop
Jumpluff
Kabutops
Klinklang
Krookodile
Lilligant
Ludicolo
Medicham
Omastar
Parasect
Rotom
Sawsbuck
Sceptile
Sigilyph
Spiritomb
Throh
Venomoth
Volbeat

UU

Hide

Dusknoir
Electivire
Floatzel
Fraxure
Gorebyss
Gurdurr
Huntail
Jumpluff
Lickilicky
Machoke
Manectric
Murkrow
Pinsir
Raichu
Rotom-F
Rotom-S
Sawsbuck
Shelgon
Simipour
Stoutland
Throh
Ursaring
Walrein
Wynaut
Zweilous

RU

Hide

Arbok
Camerupt
Gabite
Kingler
Lapras
Masquerain
Mr. Mime
Rapidash
Serperior
Shelgon
Throh
Wynaut
Zweilous

 

[Oglemi]

This has been done. Thank you again to everyone that helped