Other Rain In OU

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Rain in OU
An Introduction:
Rain was a top threat last generation, with Politoed summoning permanent Rain for many powerful Pokemon such as Keldeo, Tornadus, and Toxicroak improving greatly in Rain. However, this Generation Rain was nerfed greatly and now only lasts for five turns. However, this is not all bad, as with the coming of a new Generation, Tornadus-T was unbanned and Swift Swim + Drizzle is now legal! Rain no longer has to compete with Sun, as Sun isn't as prominent as last Generation, and it is much easier to win the weather war; although Mega Charizard Y does cause a hassle. However, Tyranitar and Hipowdown are both very common, and they summon Sandstorm to get rid of precious Rain, but it still can be set up again. Abomasnow is almost non-existent, but it still is used some. Rain is a very creative playstyle and is a very effective if properly used. It can catch a lot of things off guard and severely weakens Fire-types such as Talonflame and Charizard. Rain is still as powerful as last Generation, it just isn't as easy to set up this Generation as it was last Generation.

Effects of Rain:
Rain causes the following effects:

  • Water-type moves power is increased 50%
  • Thunder and Hurricane now have -% accuracy (they always hit, no matter what)
  • Dry Skin, Hydration, Swift Swim, and Rain Dish are activated.
  • Weather Ball is now Water-type
  • Castform turns into a Water-type
  • Fire-type moves power is decreased by 50%
  • Moonlight, Synthesis, and Morning Sun only recover 25%, versus 50%
Rain Setters:

Politoed gets the first mention because it is the sole Drizzle Pokemon allowed in OU. Politoed doesn't really have a niche outside of Drizzle, but it is a very huge niche. Politoed has a lot of sets, from Perish Song, to Choice Specs, to Damp Rock. Politoed has decent Special Defense, but everywhere else it is pretty lacking. However, under Rain, it has a mean Scald that can Burn and cripple many Pokemon. It can make up for the lack of power with Choice Specs, with a Hydro Pump that can dent a lot of things. Politoed makes a great Rain setter all around, as it can support its team, be a wall, or just be an offensive sweeper, all sets are pretty good, honestly. The main advantage of using Politoed is that it instantly summons Rain Dance, so it can just switch in and have it activated, it can even run Rain Dance itself to put a full stop to Mega Charizard Y, as it can survive a Solar Beam and set up Rain Dance, or come in on the Solar Beam and cripple it. Politoed, does, however, have a few weak points. It lacks recovery of any sort and it is often overwhelmed by many Pokemon. It also stacks weaknesses with common Rain Pokemon. Despite these flaws, Politoed is a very valuable Pokemon to Rain teams and can be very helpful.


Deoxys-Speed is a fantastic Rain setter. I'll admit, I put it on here thanks to Jukain's post about Rain Dance Deoxys-Speed found here. After a bit of testing, I can say that Deoxys-Speed is a fantastic addition to Rain Teams. It doesn't stack weaknesses with any common Rain Pokemon and has a lot of tools to work with. I particularly like the set Jukain posted, as Taunt is invaluable to ensure that you can safely set up Rain without being Taunted. Rain Pokemon also do not appreciate any hazards, and Taunt + Magic Coat greatly help with this. Deoxys-Speed can also set up Stealth Rock to aid in wearing down the opposition, as many Rain Pokemon cause switches and it is fantastic to rack up damage. Deoxys-Speed can also afford to run Psycho Boost, a very powerful move that can leave a large dent in Charizard or it can run Superpower, which OHKOes Tyranitar, a very huge threat to Rain teams. Deoxys-Speed is a fantastic addition to Rain teams, and I highly suggest and recommend trying it out sometime!


Tornadus, a Pokemon with a powerful Hurricane and a priority Rain Dance is almost a necessity on Rain teams. Tornadus truly shines on Rain teams. It can set up Rain Dance with ease and has a Prankster Taunt to further aid its team. It isn't a slouch offensively either, it has a very powerful Hurricane that can severely dent anything that doesn't resist it. As everyone knows, Flying STAB is one of the best STABs in the metagame currently, and Tornadus can certainly take advantage of this. It also has many other options such as U-turn to ensure a safe switch in and Knock Off, Superpower, and even Heat Wave to hurt Steel-types outside of Rain. Tornadus is practically the King of set Rain, and is a Pokemon that should be considered first when constructing a Rain team.


Bronzong is a great Rain Dance setter! Under Rain Dance, Bronzong loses its weakness to Fire. It also has the bulk to set up Rain Dance many times throughout the match and has the typing to do so. Its typing is a key reason to use Bronzong, as it has many resistances that Rain teams appreciate such as Grass- and Fairy-type resistances. Bronzong can also set up Dual Screens, Stealth Rock, all the way to Trick Room! It also carries Explosion, which it can use for a guaranteed safe switch in to a Rain sweeper, it also severely cripples anything that doesn't resist Normal. Sadly, Bronzong is worse off this Generation with the prevalence of Knock Off and Aegislash. But, these reasons are no reason not to try out Bronzong - as it is a great asset to Rain teams!


Volbeat gets a special mention due to its plethora of moves to abuse Prankster with, along with Rain Dance. It can run Encore to trap Pokemon into set up moves, Thunder Wave to cripple Scarf users, and even Tail Glow + Baton Pass sets to bring in a sweeper to absolutely wreck shit. However, Volbeat is complete Taunt bait if it doesn't carry Substitute, and it doesn't have the bulk to set up Rain Dance very often, but it can be helpful at last minute if need be. However, Volbeat shouldn't be considered unless you're taking advantage of Thunder Wave or Encore, or even the Baton Pass set, but that set isn't great and it is very hard to set up and take advantage of; although the rewards if it works is devastating.

Swift Swim Sweepers:

Kabutops is freaking scary under Rain. It has access to Swords Dance, which under Rain gives you a Pokemon with 518 Speed and 722 Attack with an Adamant nature. This means it outspeeds base 107 Scarfers, which kinda sucks because you miss out on Terrakion and Keldeo, but you can run Jolly to outspeed Base 122 Scarfers, but yeah don't do that. Kabutops also gets great neutral coverage with its STABs alone, and it also has access to Knock Off as a nice coverage move. Just to show the brute power of Kabutops, it has a 81.3% to OHKO 252/252+ Mega Venusaur after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes with Stone Edge, and it does 73 - 86.8% to it. Yeah, I think you get the jist. It is very powerful, and it can even run Aqua Jet to kill off Talonflame, which can severely dent Kabutops surprisingly. Kabutops is one of the best Swift Swim sweepers that you should consider running on Offensive Rain teams!


Choice Specs Kingdra is an absolute monster under Rain, and it can severely dent anything with Hydro Pump, even 2HKO'ing Azumarill, meaning one of the usual counters to Kingdra cannot even safely switch into it. Kingdra also doesn't stack weaknesses, as it doesn't have a weakness to common Grass- and Electric-types moves that normally cause trouble to Rain teams. It also has a powerful Draco Meteor to hurt many Dragon-types that resist Water-type moves. Kingdra also has solid bulk, so it can live a few hits. Kingdra is a very threatening sweeper under the Rain that fits well on most Rain teams!


Ludicolo is perhaps the most threatening Swift Swim sweepers, as it has great typing, and very powerful STABs, backed up by Ice Beam to nail Dragon-types. It can even set up Rain Dance to aid its team. Ludicolo is essential thanks to its Grass-type and the ability to smash through Specially Defensive Water-types that wall Kingdra and the likes. It also is very interesting and looks cool lol. Ludicolo is backed up by a decent Special Defense that allow it to take on a few hits. However, Ludicolo is Talonflame weak, and that leaves it not able to take full advantage of its amazing coverage and power. However, this can be patched up by a teammate and should not be disregarded, as Ludicolo is a very potent sweeper that should be used and tried out!

Rain Sweepers without Swift Swim:

Please, please, please, if you're using a Rain team, run Keldeo. Specs Keldeo can plow through pretty much anything in the Rain, it even 2HKOes its prime counter: Mega Venusaur. Pretty much the only things willing to stomach a Hydro Pump is Jellicent, which isn't very good this Gen. Even though it plows down Chansey with Secert Sword, just for the record, it can 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, which is very impressive. Just to go off of raw numbers, Hydro Pump has an effective 247 Base Power under Rain, and Choice Specs amplifies it to a shattering 370 power, which is just 5 base power less than a STAB Explosion. Seriously, don't even think about not running Keldeo on your Rain team, it can't even be classified as a Rain team without Keldeo on it.


Tornadus-Therian is so powerful, in fact, it was so powerful it was banned to Ubers last Generation. Torndaus-T has STAB Hurricane that never misses in Rain, and it has Regenerator to keep itself healthy, and as Rain teams are usually switching, it is very helpful. Torndaus-T does stack weaknesses with other Rain Pokemon, Electric-type, but it does resist Grass-types. Tornadus-T is an essential to Rain teams and is a very great Pokemon to set up and sweep under Rain!



Other Things and Pokemon to Consider:

**Note: These are all usable and good, I just didn't feel the need to include them into the main sweepers due to various reasons, thus they will be shorter than above!**

Hurricane
Hurricane is a powerful move in Rain, but the only usable STAB Pokemon are Tornadus and Dragonite, and Dragonite has better sets. Volcarona is very usable, but sadly its Fire Blast is crippled in the Rain, and thus is difficult to use, Moltres as well. Noivern is another great Hurricane user, as it brings nice resistances to Grass to the table, but it isn't very powerful unless backed by Choice Specs or Life Orb.

Other Rain Dance Setters:
There are of course a lot more Rain Dance setters! Some great ones include Uxie - who has great bulk, speed, and access to Dual Screens, along with U-Turn to keep up momentum, and also Goodra - who has a niche of gaining reliable recovery in Rain, thanks to Hydration. There a lot more, and you should try some new ones out!

Thunder
Thunder is a powerful move in Rain, as it never misses. Some Pokemon to consider are Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Magneszone, Zapdos, and Raikou.

Grass-, Bug-, and Steel-types:
Grass-types are really good under Rain, as they lose their weakness to Fire, however they also lose Synthesis. Some great Grass-types are Ferrothorn, Breloom, and Gourgeist! However they do lose their Resistance to Water-type moves, but it usually isn't a big issue. Bug-types are in the same boat, however they do not resist Water, but gain a weakness to them. However they're still very usable! Some great Bug-types are Scizor, Forretress, and Heracross! Steel-types are fantastic in Rain, as they synergize well and lose weakness to Fire! Some fantastic Steel-types are Magnezone, Aegislash, and Escavalier!

Toxicroak
Toxicroak isn't really what it was last Generation, but it is ok this generation! It has reliable recovery under rain and can set up Swords Dance nicely!

Other Water-types
Some great Water-types that can make use of their amped up STABs are Mega Gyarados, Goryebess (who also has Swift Swim!), Starmie, Azumarill (whose Banded Aqua Jet and Waterfall are very powerful), and Crawdaunt, whose Crabhammer can shatter worlds.

Ender of Rain (Counters):

Other Weather
Other weathers all will put an end to Rain. However, all the instant weather setters are weak to Water, bar the uncommon Abomasnow. After your Rain setters are gone, then you lose the weather war, which is very negative, as many Pokemon are most useful in Rain and lose that.

Using Rain:
Rain should be used with balance. Do not have one setter, then five sweeper. Try to make a mix somewhere like two dedicated setter, one setter / sweeper, two sweepers, and a Pokemon meant to work in and out of Rain.

Conclusion:
This little itty bitty tutorial is nothing compared to the amazing article written by yee and ginganinja which you can find here. Be sure to read that and this! I hope you enjoyed this and you are inspired to go construct a Rain team!

P.S. If I left out any Pokemon you want me to mention, I'll test them out and write about them~!
 
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Aragorn the King

Literally a duck
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Swift Swim + Rain Dance is now legal!
* One thing: That combination has always been legal. It's Drizzle + Swift Swim that was illegal, but is no longer.
* Also, you didn't give any analysis for Manaphy.
* I feel like Moltres, Noivern, and Vivillon should also be mentioned under Hurricane users
* Lastly, I really think you should include Damp Rock Uxie as a backup rain setter. Its bulk is phenomenal, it has great speed, Dual Screens, and U-Turn, which allows it to easily pivot to a rain sweeper after rain dance is used.

Otherwise, great thread. I love using rain this gen!
 
* One thing: That combination has always been legal. It's Drizzle + Swift Swim that was illegal, but is no longer.
* Also, you didn't give any analysis for Manaphy.
* I feel like Moltres, Noivern, and Vivillon should also be mentioned under Hurricane users
* Lastly, I really think you should include Damp Rock Uxie as a backup rain setter. Its bulk is phenomenal, it has great speed, Dual Screens, and U-Turn, which allows it to easily pivot to a rain sweeper after rain dance is used.

Otherwise, great thread. I love using rain this gen!
Oh yeah, mistake on my part! And I'm not sure about Moltres, I'll add it with Volcarona, as it has its Fire-type moves hampered as well. And the Manaphy thing was because I was going to write it up but then skipped it lol, writing up soon. And yeah, Uxie is good, but it will just be under "other" because there are tons more Rain Dance setters~! But thanks for all of that (:
 

Aragorn the King

Literally a duck
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Oh yeah, mistake on my part! And I'm not sure about Moltres, I'll add it with Volcarona, as it has its Fire-type moves hampered as well. And the Manaphy thing was because I was going to write it up but then skipped it lol, writing up soon. And yeah, Uxie is good, but it will just be under "other" because there are tons more Rain Dance setters~! But thanks for all of that (:
Okay. Tbh I think it's better than Volbeat, but to each his own. Also, you mention Volbeat is not Taunt bait if it runs Substitute... but Taunt goes through substitute.

Regardless, Rain Dance + Tail Glow + Baton Pass can be great; not much can stop a +3 Special Attack +2 Speed Kingdra!
 
I'm not sure if you want to include this, but there are other swift swimmers and other rain abusers out there in order to diversify the rain playstyle a little bit. Such may include SS beartic (fast physical ice attacker with great coverage, support moves like encore to help set up its sweep, as well as priority aqua jet for stupid talonflame), SS armaldo (stronger than kabutops with bug stab to hit bulky grass types as well as bulky latias and slowbro that kabutops hates, but its a bit slower, also got aqua jet in 6th gen), SS carracosta (lots of bulk, access to shell smash to not be outsped by any scarfer and able to go mixed with its decent special attack), SS omastar (powerful special sweeper), even SS qwilfish as a fast hazard setter with destiny bond, taunt and thunder wave with offensive presence. There's also the stally Dry skin parasect with subseed spore stall madness (it was better when rain was permanent, but I feel like it should still deserve a mention), as well as dry skin jynx with lovely kiss (powerful special attacker with sleep move and nasty plot). Dry skin heliolisk is also cool (great pivot electric type with water coverage and recovery, allowing it to run life orb without much recoil).

Also weather ball raikou is amazing in rain, having access to a strong water type move for the majority of ground types allow it to run another hidden power of its choice, with calm mind making it a good wallbreaker.

Shell smash tough claws barbaracle is also a menace with the rain boost.

edit: roserade and anything else that gets weather ball is also awesome since previous checks and counters (like tran) get screwed over.
 
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Aragorn the King

Literally a duck
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm not sure if you want to include this, but there are other swift swimmers and other rain abusers out there in order to diversify the rain playstyle a little bit. Such may include SS beartic (fast physical ice attacker with great coverage, support moves like encore to help set up its sweep, as well as priority aqua jet for stupid talonflame), SS armaldo (stronger than kabutops with bug stab to hit bulky grass types as well as bulky latias and slowbro that kabutops hates, but its a bit slower, also got aqua jet in 6th gen), SS carracosta (lots of bulk, access to shell smash to not be outsped by any scarfer and able to go mixed with its decent special attack), SS omastar (powerful special sweeper), even SS qwilfish as a fast hazard setter with destiny bond, taunt and thunder wave with offensive presence. There's also the stally Dry skin parasect with subseed spore stall madness (it was better when rain was permanent, but I feel like it should still deserve a mention), as well as dry skin jynx with lovely kiss (powerful special attacker with sleep move and nasty plot). Dry skin heliolisk is also cool (great pivot electric type with water coverage and recovery, allowing it to run life orb without much recoil).

Also weather ball raikou is amazing in rain, having access to a strong water type move for the majority of ground types allow it to run another hidden power of its choice, with calm mind making it a good wallbreaker.
I definitely agree with Raikou. It has STAB Thunder and a 100% Accurate 100 BP Water move boosted by Rain. It also has a Psychic move, allowing it to hurt Venusaur, who kills most rain sweepers.
 
Another Pokémon you may want to mention as a rain settler is Vaporeon. It has good bulk, can abuse hydration, and can act as a cleric with wish and heal bell.
 
Grass-, Bug-, and Steel-types:
Grass-types are really good under Rain, as they lose their weakness to Fire, however they also lose Synthesis. Some great Grass-types are Ferrothorn, Breloom, and Gourgeist! However they do lose their Resistance to Water-type moves, but it usually isn't a big issue. Bug-types are in the same boat, however they do not resist Water, but gain a weakness to them. However they're still very usable! Some great Bug-types are Scizor, Forretress, and Heracross! Steel-types are fantastic in Rain, as they synergize well and lose weakness to Fire! Some fantastic Steel-types are Magnezone, Aegislash, and Escavalier!
Too many howevers. I suggest rewording this paragraph to make it nicer to read. Maybe just mention that all three of them lose their Fire weakness instead of bringing it up three separate times, and explain why your examples are better in Rain than they would be otherwise.
 
Interesting write-up, Rain Dance deo-s sounds like a pretty cool pokemon actually.

* One thing: That combination has always been legal. It's Drizzle + Swift Swim that was illegal, but is no longer.
* Also, you didn't give any analysis for Manaphy.
* I feel like Moltres, Noivern, and Vivillon should also be mentioned under Hurricane users
* Lastly, I really think you should include Damp Rock Uxie as a backup rain setter. Its bulk is phenomenal, it has great speed, Dual Screens, and U-Turn, which allows it to easily pivot to a rain sweeper after rain dance is used.

Otherwise, great thread. I love using rain this gen!
Vivillon's hurricane is mostly pointless in rain since Compoundeyes beefs Hurricanes accuracy up to 91%.
 
I feel like the biggest wrenches thrown at Drizzle wasn't just the rain nerf, but the fact that there is no good pokemon with Drizzle (Drizzle Mega Samurott, make it happen GF).

So while Rain is in fact a powerful weather, it has to compete with Tyranitar and Mega Charizard Y, both of which are among the most used Pokemon in OU, and both of which have decreased weather setting priority. To be honest its the same problem Drought had last gen albeit not as bad because Rain is the superior condition from a theoretical standpoint.
 
I'm in the process of building a rain team now, and I'm finding Politoed to be something of a dead weight. Its best set remains the Choice Specs wallbreaker set, but that sacrifices team performance now that its rain lasts only five turns; its most team-player sets lack power, and Politoed doesn't have the typing or the stats to be able to switch in on much.

One Swift Swimmer I'm curious to know about is Seismitoad, who seems to have gained overall from the generation change - it remains the only Water/Ground Swift Swim user (though with Mega Charizard Y running around with Solar Beam stapled to it that could be a liability) and Sludge Wave has gone from pitiful Ice Beam substitute to a somewhat viable option to hurt Fairies (particularly Azumarill).
 
I'm in the process of building a rain team now, and I'm finding Politoed to be something of a dead weight. Its best set remains the Choice Specs wallbreaker set, but that sacrifices team performance now that its rain lasts only five turns; its most team-player sets lack power, and Politoed doesn't have the typing or the stats to be able to switch in on much.

One Swift Swimmer I'm curious to know about is Seismitoad, who seems to have gained overall from the generation change - it remains the only Water/Ground Swift Swim user (though with Mega Charizard Y running around with Solar Beam stapled to it that could be a liability) and Sludge Wave has gone from pitiful Ice Beam substitute to a somewhat viable option to hurt Fairies (particularly Azumarill).
I heard that seismitoad got an attack boost, so with 95/85 offense its kinda like ludicolo; unique typing (defensively and offensively) for a certain role (swift swim offense) but should be considered as a somewhat secondary attacker to your primary sweeper. Seismitoad seems to have a very decent movepool (it technically has icy wind for a special ice move), and with the attack boost you could run ice punch, which is just as useful as ice beam. Focus blast/low kick takes on things like Kyu-b very well, and grass knot screws over other water/grounds. It gets knock off (which means abuse it lol), and sludge wave as you said is good for things like chesnaught, azumarill, togekiss, etc.

I would run a set like:
Seismitoad Life orb/expert belt
ability: swift swim
Evs: 252 atk/ 194 special attack/ 58 speed
nature: naughty
- waterfall
- ice punch
- sludge wave/earthquake/Focus blast
- grass knot/hydro pump/low kick

As for the charizard-y issue, if you run waterfall you take on its bad defensive stat, which means it will still take a lot of damage even if it is in the sun:

252+ Atk Life Orb Seismitoad Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 182-218 (61 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

and you can always switch out to your politoed later.
 
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I changed the spread above just so you know, you get the 2hko on most physical and special walls with this spread.
 
Seismitoad doesn't learn Waterfall, unfortunately.
...Well then (for fucks sake seismitoad seriously?), just replace waterfall with earthquake and leave the 3rd spot to either sludge wave, focus blast, or knock off, or rock slide
it should look like this now.
Seismitoad Life orb/expert belt
ability: swift swim
Evs: 252 atk/ 194 special attack/ 58 speed
nature: naughty
- earthquake
- ice punch/grass knot/low kick/rock slide
- sludge wave/knock off/Focus blast
- Hydro pump
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
All I keep hearing about is how weather is nerfed this generation, and most of the people have been saying that they don't like to use it anymore. Well I think that weather is still great! I mean sure, you have to set it up more, but it is still good! Look at some of the examples above!

Another thing I would like to point out is how so many people don't understand how good Manaphy is as a utility pokemon. I use as such, instead of as a sweeper, and it works wonders. So many people don't expect it, and even once they do, it still does it's job. You can use Scald for burns, Knock Off for crippling your opponent (Manaphy knocks off at least one item, and generally more per game), can use Rain Dance if you need another setter, Heal Bell to cure your team's status, and Rest as a 100% healing move with no downside in the rain, just to name a few things. It is bulky so it can take hits, and it is great as utility. I think it should be used much more often as such!

The set could be different depending on your team's needs and what is has, but in my team I run:
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Energy Ball (thinking about running rest over this though)
- Knock Off
- Heal Bell
 
I believe you are undercrediting Hurricane Moltres a lot. Spec Moltres has the strongest immediate unboosted Hurricane in the game alongside Tornadus-I, whom you don't want to Choice, who also can pass Tailwind to make Moltres a pain to deal with for 4 turns.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Moltres Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That's with an unboosted resisted attack. Moltres is amongst the best non-swift-swimmer sweepers in terms of abusing rain, second to only Keldeo imo, if you can afford to run hazard removal support of course, which is not too hard considering Latias is good for Rain teams as well.
 
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I believe you are undercrediting Hurricane Moltres a lot. Spec Moltres has the strongest immediate unboosted Hurricane in the game minus Tornadus-I, whom you don't want to Choice, who also can pass Tailwind to make Moltres a pain to deal with for 4 turns.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Moltres Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That's with an unboosted resisted attack. Moltres is amongst the best non-swift-swimmer sweepers in terms of abusing rain, second to only Keldeo imo, if you can afford to run hazard removal support of course, which is not too hard considering Latias is good for Rain teams as well.
Moltres is awesome but is just too slow considering its nasty type defensively, which also calls for a 4x sneaky pebbles weakness. Basically it just calls for too much support when you can use something faster like Volcarona if you want something like Moltres who, while still has a 4x SR weakness, has better coverage(at least better than Moltres due to bug buzz and firey dance), more durability Special Defense-wise, and can set up if need be while still being able to pose as an immediate threat. I guess Moltres hits like a nuclear bomb but requiring Rain support, spin support, AND sticky web/t-wave support just seems like a bit too much.
 
As far as I know, Thunderus-I has access to Rain Dance and is more threatening than Tornadus-I, thanks to its larger offensive and supporting movepool.
 
As far as I know, Thunderus-I has access to Rain Dance and is more threatening than Tornadus-I, thanks to its larger offensive and supporting movepool.
Difference is that Thundurus can't handle most Grass-types like Tornadus can, which provides much better synergy to a rain team.
 
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