Rain, the Baton Pass of the Fourth Generation [First RMT]

[Howard]

Rain, the Baton Pass of the Fourth Generation

Introduction:

I planned on saving my first RMT for my 100th post and decided it didn’t count if it was a past generation team. With the success of this team in the 4th gen tours this season, I decided I would go ahead and post it for everyone to enjoy. Those unfamiliar with the concept of rain dance will find this team beneficial. It’s very simple to use and the concept is pretty straightforward: get rain up and KO everything. Even those who’ve never played rain before can be successful. It addresses all of the main issues rain teams deal with. The main problem most rain dance teams have is getting rain up in the first place and when it’s not up, being complete fodder for half of the metagame. The idea of this team is to be able to function both inside and out of rain, while dealing with rain dance’s biggest nemesis, Tyranitar. With 5 checks to Tyranitar and considerable bulk on all fronts, this team will beat any unprepared team or player handily. Without further ado, here’s my team.


The Team Building Process:

Hide

I wanted to start out with my favorite rain starter, Jirachi. His ability to set up rain just about every time is something that can’t be ignored. He also has the benefit of losing his weakness to fire once Rain Dance has been set up. This can be very beneficial against leads like Heatran, who expect a free KO/Damage from a Fire Blast or Lava Plume.​

Next, I wanted to get some rain abusers in there. Kabutops and Mixed Kingdra automatically came to mind. Between them, they have the ability to take out just about anything that comes in their path. Personally I think they’re the 2 best rain abusers in the 4th generation. They were an easy and welcome addition to the team. Also, they have good synergy with Jirachi, as he resists Dragon/Water attacks aimed at my precious sweepers.​

Now, I clearly needed a special attack abuser of rain. It was a tough pick, because I had to choose between Ludicolo and Omastar. They’re statistically similar, with Omastar having more Special Attack and Ludicolo having more bulk. Originally, Omastar was my choice, as I decided that extra power outweighed the extra bulk Ludicolo had. After a period of time, I realized I was having trouble with Vaporeon. Ludicolo made a comeback, being able to destroy everything Omastar could, with the added benefit of beating Vaporeon. I’ve decided to make some changes to my original Ludicolo set, the new one allows me to continue to power through teams thanks to Life Orb, but also gives me the ability to set a shorter rain in dire situations.​

I needed another mon capable of getting rain up consistently, so I decided Gliscor could work out really well with Jirachi. Plus he gives me a check to Tyranitar, as well as a number of other physical threats, such as Scizor. Gliscor also access to taunt, allowing him to beat stall teams attempting to ruin my rainy fun.
​

Lastly I needed a beastly special defense wall to get rain up as well as support the rest of the team. I struggled most with this last slot. I tried out Scizor, but it just couldn’t take the special hits like I needed it to. I tried out Cresselia, but relying on Moonlight for recovery in rain is not the best tactic I’ve ever had. I settled on Blissey, the quintessential Special Defense wall. With that big 714HP and big 130 Def (Lol) she’s able to not just sponge the special hits I need her to, but also allows her to sponge weak physical attacks from things like Gliscor. She was the perfect fit on my beast of a team.​

Originally I was running Jirachi as my rain lead, but relying on probabilities and hax is an unreliable way to win games. I decided to switch my lead to an Azelf. He outspeeds common leads, allowing him to Taunt set up mons, set up Rain at will, or stealth rocks at will, or Explode, putting momentum in my favor almost immediately. It was a hard choice for me to make, but Azelf is an incredibly reliable mon.​

I needed another mon capable of getting rain up consistently, so I decided Gliscor could work out really well with Jirachi. After switching Jirachi for Azelf, I felt like I missed Jirachi a lot for some reason. I thought of sets that abused rain and still had the defensive bulk counter special attackers. I decided to bring Jirachi back in more of a special attacking role, as well as providing a valuable pivot in the middle of a game. Late game Jirachi sweeps are among the most common now.​

For the last slot on the team, I originally had a Blissey to wall special attackers. With Jirachi filling this role nicely, I decided to go a different route, picking another mon to abuse rain. Rotom-W is often lost in the 4th generation, however, he provides immunities to ground and fighting moves, spin blocking ability, and the ability to set up rain. He has found a rather nice niche on the team.​

Closer Look:

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
​

Azelf is an incredibly potent lead in its normal form. With extremely good coverage, ability to Taunt and set rocks, as well as U-Turn/Explode/Fire Blast other leads, Azelf really is monster in the 4th generation. With this in mind, when people see Azelf they have preconceived notions of what exactly to expect from an Azelf. Once rain is in place, opponents often panic and send in a rain counter allowing my Azelf to Explode and take out one of the things that could ruin my fun later on. Azelf was put as the lead instead of Jirachi because it performed similar walls, while being able to guarantee damage with Explosion.

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 SAtk / 152 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance​

The king of the team, this Kingdra set has swept many an unprepared opponent with ease. I’ve tried other Kingdra variants, but this one can obliterate just about anything in its path. The best late game sweeper a boy could ask for. The EVs are idealized to allow it to out-speed Jolly Tyranitar without the need for rain up. Special Attack is maxed to allow Kingdra to break common physical counters with Draco Meteor and spam Dragon Dance to boost his Attack and Speed. After 2 boosts, it doesn’t matter if rain is up or not, because there’s no coming back from his ability to destroy just about everything. Empoleon and Skarmory can ruin Kingdra’s fun with this set, but hey, that’s what teammates are for, right?

Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet​

Kabutops, the midgame Wall-Breaker and Kingdra’s best friend. This set is here mainly to provide support to the other 2 sweepers, as it can check and destroy nasty Empoleons and other steel types attempting to ruin my fun. Stone Edge obliterates Gyarados, Togekiss, Zapdos, and just about anything that takes neutral damage from it. Waterfall is the same way, also getting the benefit of a rain dance boost in power. Kabutops can easily sweep a team by itself. His natural defensive bulk is just an added benefit. Speed is to tie other neutral base 80’s outside of rain. Bring it on, Mamoswine. Aqua Jet was moved in place of Brick Break as it provides a 2HKO to Tyranitar and gives me an easier way to defeat pesky Gengars. Item was switched to Life Orb for the same reason.

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Energy Ball​

Ludicolo, the only Special Attacker I need. With this spread, I’m able to outpace Jolteon at +2 and OHKO with any move on the list. With Ludicolo’s natural bulk, he is able to sponge hits like champ, and return the favor with a Specs Hydro Pump. Energy Ball is chosen over Grass Knot to beat Vaporeon, who can eat a dick. Ludicolo is chosen over Omastar pretty much for that one reason. I don’t want to rely on Hidden Power Grass to beat Vaporeon. Plus, Ludicolo is just a straight beast. I mean, look at it! It’s half duck, half awesome.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon
​

Dat hax machine. This little bastard is the bane of team’s unprepared deal with him. His bulk allows him to switch into something he resists, and start to abuse almost immediately. Instead of adding another swift swimmer to my team, I decided that a rain abusing Jirachi could provide more to the team than Qwilfish, Omastar or Floatzel. This is a team almost straight from 5th gen teams. A complete and utter beast. Edit: Flash Cannon is used over Water Pulse to help deal with Tyranitar, as Gliscor isn't really a problem for the rest of the team.

Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
​

Rotom-W serves as my physical pivot of the team, switching into Earthquakes and Close Combats and setting up rain. Rotom-W also benefits greatly from rain by being able to deliver huge damage from a STAB Thunder or a rain boosted Hydro Pump. Rotom-W was chosen over Gliscor because it’s more offensive, it benefits more from rain, and still continues to cover a lot of the things that Gliscor covered, while being an incredibly potent sweeper in its own right.


Former members:

Originally, this teams setters were Jirachi, Gliscor, and Blissey. I came to the conclusion that instead of trying to figure out what I was going to do when rain was down, I should try and make sure that that is never the case, switching from a somewhat balanced style to a considerably more offensive style. It puts more pressure on the team while having 5 members who benefit greatly from the rain.

Hide

Jirachi @ Damp Rock
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head​

I’m a huge fan of Jirachi as my rain lead for a multitude of reasons. The main reason I love using Jirachi is because of preconceived notions of what exactly a Jirachi lead does. Most people expect some sort of scarf variant which, right off the bat, causes huge grief when they switch to their counter, only to have rain set up in their face. It may seem weird not to run some sort of defensive variant, but the beauty of the set is that it works extremely well late game if rain is gone and both teams are weakened. Blissey carries Thunder Wave, which combined with Jirachi late game, can cause some serious headaches and late game Iron Head sweeps. Jirachi is a critical component to this team, and without him, it would easily fall apart.

Gliscor (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost​

Gliscor may seem like an odd choice on a Rain Dance team, but don’t get it twisted, Gliscor is a straight up beast. Originally, I ran Scizor in this slot for his late game sweeping ability. I found myself dying for a more dedicated fighting check. Enter, Gliscor. His immunity to Electric and Ground type moves is a godsend, allowing me switch him into a number of different Mons and proceed to make it rain on them hoes. Spread is simple, enough speed to beat Jolly Tyranitar and laugh in its face. Gliscor also allows me to beat stall teams easier, Taunt breaking things like Skarmory and Forretress, preventing them from spamming lame hazards and Whirlwind-ing my sweepers. It also prevents Draggy from Outrage spamming, stalling it out, and setting up more rain for any of the sweepers to come in.

Blissey (F) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Softboiled
- Aromatherapy​

Dat fat whore. The beast of a neutral wall that she is, she can come in on just about anything and set up rain/thunder wave. The set is complete Taunt bait, yes. However, in almost no situation is Blissey in against anything that will be using Taunt. Aromatherapy can alleviate some of the stress that toxic spikes put on rain teams, as well as any other nasty status that can ruin my fun. Softboiled is almost worth taking off for Seismic Toss, as late game Blissey sweeps can be absolutely hilarious. Another idea is taking off Thunder Wave for Seismic Toss, but when switched into something it walls, paralyzing an Infernape on the switch provides me with such a sense of satisfaction and joy that I can’t even begin to describe it. Edit: Thunder Wave was replaced for Thunder for its ability to prevent me from being complete Set Up fodder, 2HKO Skarm and break Gengar subs.

Outro:

So, this team is not perfect, by any means. But it’s not far away, by any means. Suggestions are definitely appreciated. I’m still searching for that perfect combo of rain setting pokes, but Blissey and Gliscor have been working out pretty well thus far. Jirachi is also replaceable, but his unpredictability has been crucial in a lot of matches where the first turn determines the outcome of the whole match. There has been a lot of pressure put on me by my friends around the interweb for this team to get posted, especially the Kingdra set. I hope everyone can find it as easy to play and beastly as I have.


Importable:

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 SAtk / 152 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance

Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Energy Ball

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon

Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball

Threat List:

To create a threat list for a Rain Dance team, you have to take into account times when you have rain up and times when you don’t. A threat list, in this sense, is completely subjective and situational to a team like this one. However, whether rain is up or not, there are some things that this team doesn’t like, regardless of whether or not rain is up.

Empoleon: This fat penguin asshole can wall Kingdra into the ground, and proceed to do whatever gay thing it is that Empoleon does. Usually sub, agility, berry, gay. Kabutops can check it, to an extent, but it’s still a pain in the ass.

Skarmory: This steely bird can switch in, and in a lot cases, wall an attack and whirlwind/spikes until its little heart is content. Ludicolo can switch into any move not named Brave Bird, and do some serious effing damage though.

Kingdra: If the other team has a Kingdra and it has more speed than my Kingdra, I probably lost this one.

Tyranitar: Obviously a huge problem for rain dance, seeing as he makes it go away. Granted, 5 of my mons can kill him with ease, but getting rid of him and winning the rain war is critical.

Hippowdon: See Tyranitar.

Sunny Day: This move is the second worst thing that could happen. If I see Chlorophyll users, I immediately retreat to Blissey, and hope I don’t die.

Trick Room: This is the worst possible thing that can happen to me. By far. Attempting to stall out a Trick Room team with rain abusers is a tough feat, but careful switching between Gliscor/Blissey/Jirachi can allow you to be somewhat successful until you can get rain up.
​

I wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t mention MostWanted for helping me out with the coding on this team. This couldn’t have happened without him and he should get a badge already, for Christ’s sakes. I’d also like to give my thanks to Multi, Moo, MCRandom, LizardMan, Chileno4Live, and Basti for all the support and help throughout the past couple of months. And really, everyone back at SZ. I’d also like to thank my tutor, Stone_Cold. Stone or Die. I hope everyone enjoys this RMT as much as I enjoyed writing it. Good luck battling, winners.

 

[Rainbow]

It seems okay

I dont have any experience with rain dance teams, but this seems thought out and balanced, gl with the team

 

[Howard]

Thanks, and I'm glad I could take your post virginity. Looking forward to more rates and criticisms.

 

[MCRandom]

Sup Howard, first of all pro avatar. Second of all great team. I only have one change that might be beneficial to this team's success. I would recommend going with Rain Dance over Dragon Dance on Kingdra. You say that dragon dance helps you sweep out of the rain, but with rain dance you really don't need to do that now do you :).

 

[Evire]

Team looks real good howard :)

 

[Howard]

Thanks for the comment, MCRandom. I've ran Rain Dance on Kingdra before, but here's the main reasoning for picking Dragon Dance over Rain Dance. Both moves will be used really only in certain situations. I find myself needing the extra attack boost from Dragon Dance more than the speed that Rain Dance provides. Having 3 dedicated Rain Dance users is often more than enough, and the team can become crowded with too many. Having the ability to boost via Dragon Dance on the switch becomes a lot more practical than Rain Dance. But I've definitely tried it before. Thanks again for the rate.

Edit: I can't spell.

 

[Howard]

Thanks for the comment E-Vire, it's greatly appreciated. Feel free to use it on me sometime.

 

[Multi]

Beautiful rain team capable of destorying damn near 95% of standard 4th gen ou teams. If i had to rate it i'd give it 10/10, tho, i think a celebi can also be a problem to your team if blissey is down. otherwise it puts in work.

 

[Howard]

Thanks for the rate, Multi. Kingdra's Draco Meteor actually does huge amounts of damage to Celebi, which is one of the reasons I run Draco Meteor instead of Hydro Pump. Definitely took Celebi into account when making this team, because Celebi can cause some huge problems for me otherwise.

 

[Chileno4Live]

You can try out Double Dance Kingdra as it gives you another reliable Rain Dance user, although you do lose the Mixed coverage. Also, please give Blissey an attack over Thunder Wave. It's set-up fodder for most pokémons like Snorlax, Gengar, and more. Otherwise, nice team :P.

 

[Howard]

Yeah, I've been thinking of switching off Thunder Wave for Seismic Toss, as relying on hax really isn't a reliable way to win games. It's definitely worth a second look though. Thanks for the rate, Chileno4Live.

 

[Shame That]

Great team, especially good for people new to rain. I give this a 9.9 / 10, losing the 0.1 only because you missed out my favourite RD poke, Floatzel. I have one other nitpick; have you considered making Kingdra a full on special attacker, and giving Ludi the unexpected Swords Dance LO set for some unexpected physical sweeps? Ice Punch / Seed Bomb / Waterfall (correct me if I'm wrong) has perfect coverage, and 252 Atk Adamant +2 sends Ludi's attack to 524. Since your opponent would most likely switch in Blissey to take something lime Hydro Pump you can either kill her with 180 BP Waterfall (assuming rain) at +2, or watch her switch out and SD as she does, making a +4 Ludi-Monster. Plus, If you DID eliminate Blissey, Kingdra has a clean sweep. Here are the sets, If you feel like testing them:

Ludicolo @Life Orb
Adamant
192 Spe / 252 Atk / 60 HP
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch
-Seed Bomb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kingdra @Life Orb
Modest
252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Rain Dance / Signal Beam
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
-HP Electric

Anything before the slashes is more reliable, whilst anything after is if you just want the raw strength. Good luck!

 

[Warped Worlds]

Hello Howard.

This is an interesting take on 4th gen Rain Dance, but I am actually not sure how great an idea it really is. Even if a sweeper sets up against you, Rain Dance teams usually have sturdy back up Rain Dance pokemon to save you.

Blissey and Gliscor really seem to slow the team down. Usually when playing Rain Dance, you are supposed to set rain, then bail out. With Blissey and Gliscor, that is pretty hard to do. This usually means one of your frail swift swimmers will end up taking a hit, and it often means cutting your win conditions short, or ending a sweep.

Two, Sunny Day and Trick Room teams are nearly nonexistent in OU. Sunny Day you will usually beat because your sweepers are faster in your respective weather, and because they tend to pack fire types.

Trick Room teams will usually beat you no matter what, but the key to winning is simply stalling the turns out with a bulky pivot, hopefully with recovery, and just wittle them down over the time when Trick Room ends. Usually if you can kill their Slowbro or Bronzong, then set your own Rain, you will almost always win. A taunting lead is key to this.

For one, I would like to suggest Azelf over Blissey, then move Azelf to the lead spot. Not only does it have Taunt for Roserade's Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock users, and rogue hyper offense teams - it has Explosion to break early holes.

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Two, I would like to drop Gliscor from this team. While yes, it does have Taunt, that doesn't matter all that much without Toxic. It also opens up sweeps from pokemon such as Gengar, Gyarados, Dragonite, and maybe some others. It also can't touch Leech Seed Shaymin, an already troublesome problem for Rain Dance.

I feel an extra rain abuser in Rotom W can be quite solid here. It keeps the hyper offensive momentum on your team going, while it is sturdy enough to set Rain. It also offers better resistences in general for your team. It can also touch Vaporeon, a pokemon which can give Rain Dance teams a headache. Rotom W also helps with Hippowdon.

Hide

Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 200 HP / 56 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Shadow Ball

Finally I would like to suggest some nitpicks. For one I would suggest Aqua Jet on Kabutops over Brick Break, while using Life Orb since everyone expects Swords Dance. This helps you against Scarfed Tyranitar, while 2HKOing Empoleon with a +0 Waterfall in Rain. This essentially means Scarfed Tyranitar can't revenge you because of Aqua Jet, Gengar can't stop your sweep when Rain is down.

I would also increase Ludicolo's speed to outrun Scarfed Rotom, and use a Life Orb. While Specs may seem attractive, there is still plenty of things which resist your STAB. You also wouldn't want to be locked into Ice Beam. Switching wastes RD turns. Focus Blast also offers redundant coverage, so try running Rain Dance over it. As for EV's, run 60HP/252SpA/196Spe.

On Jirachi, try running 80HP/252SpA/176Spe, Water Pulse/Calm Mind/Thunder/Psychic with Leftovers.. I may suggest Mixed Kingdra as well, but that is preference really.

 

[Howard]

Great team, especially good for people new to rain. I give this a 9.9 / 10, losing the 0.1 only because you missed out my favourite RD poke, Floatzel. I have one other nitpick; have you considered making Kingdra a full on special attacker, and giving Ludi the unexpected Swords Dance LO set for some unexpected physical sweeps? Ice Punch / Seed Bomb / Waterfall (correct me if I'm wrong) has perfect coverage, and 252 Atk Adamant +2 sends Ludi's attack to 524. Since your opponent would most likely switch in Blissey to take something lime Hydro Pump you can either kill her with 180 BP Waterfall (assuming rain) at +2, or watch her switch out and SD as she does, making a +4 Ludi-Monster. Plus, If you DID eliminate Blissey, Kingdra has a clean sweep. Here are the sets, If you feel like testing them:

Ludicolo @Life Orb
Adamant
192 Spe / 252 Atk / 60 HP
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch
-Seed Bomb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kingdra @Life Orb
Modest
252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Rain Dance / Signal Beam
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
-HP Electric

Anything before the slashes is more reliable, whilst anything after is if you just want the raw strength. Good luck!

That's an extremely interesting idea. I like playing off people's preconceived notions of what exactly a Pokemon should be. The Ludicolo set you posted is definitely worth a test, and that Kingdra set would be the obvious compliment for it. Feel free to try it out yourself too XD

 

[Pocket]

I don't know how you could have trouble with Empoleon when all of your mons 2HKO it without any set-up (well, except for Kingdra and Jirachi). Superpower is an option on Kabutops for the guaranteed OHKO without any boosts.

You can bump Kingdra's Attack to 265 (156 Atk EVs), which will guarantee a 2HKO on both Skarmory (w/ SR) and Empoleon after a Dragon Dance.

Blissey is the ultimate set-up bait, and I don't know how you counter Special Sweepers with Substitute or Taunt. Either way, Thunder + Seismic Toss > Thunder Wave + Aromatherapy would most likely be ideal. Thunder lets you break Substitutes from Gengar and 2HKOs Skarmory. You still got a good chance to paralyze things while doing damage.

The key to beating Empoleon is that you PP-stall out its water moves before it activates Petaya. Never let it activate Petaya with a Sub intact - at the very least, break its Substitute. That way, Blissey can survive an attack (but not two), and can take it out.

You may even want to give Jirachi Thunder, so it's not total set-up bait for Empoleon and Skarmory. It even has a much better chance of spreading paralysis thanks to Serene Grace. This can possibly go over U-turn. You lose momentum, but it does provide Jirachi more offensive presence, and it can start flinch-haxing without relying on Blissey. You can keep Jolly, 212 SAtk still does enough damage. You may want to keep U-turn to escape from Magnezone, though. In that case, you can put Thunder over SR, and put SR on Gliscor over Rain Dance, since 2 Damp Rock Rain Summoners are sufficient imo.

Jirachi also has other suitable options. It can provide Wish / Healing Wish to refresh your Rain Sweepers. That would probably go over SR (You may then have to stick SR on Gliscor over Rain Dance). If you're passing Wish, make Jirachi physically defensive. That may be a good thing, because otherwise, DD Outrage or DD Gyarados would have a good chance at beating your team.

252 HP | 236 Def | 20 Spe | Impish Nature.

Hopefully, the changes will improve your team. Have fun.

 

[Howard]

Hello Howard.

This is an interesting take on 4th gen Rain Dance, but I am actually not sure how great an idea it really is. Even if a sweeper sets up against you, Rain Dance teams usually have sturdy back up Rain Dance pokemon to save you.

Blissey and Gliscor really seem to slow the team down. Usually when playing Rain Dance, you are supposed to set rain, then bail out. With Blissey and Gliscor, that is pretty hard to do. This usually means one of your frail swift swimmers will end up taking a hit, and it often means cutting your win conditions short, or ending a sweep.

Two, Sunny Day and Trick Room teams are nearly nonexistent in OU. Sunny Day you will usually beat because your sweepers are faster in your respective weather, and because they tend to pack fire types.

Trick Room teams will usually beat you no matter what, but the key to winning is simply stalling the turns out with a bulky pivot, hopefully with recovery, and just wittle them down over the time when Trick Room ends. Usually if you can kill their Slowbro or Bronzong, then set your own Rain, you will almost always win. A taunting lead is key to this.

For one, I would like to suggest Azelf over Blissey, then move Azelf to the lead spot. Not only does it have Taunt for Roserade's Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock users, and rogue hyper offense teams - it has Explosion to break early holes.

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Two, I would like to drop Gliscor from this team. While yes, it does have Taunt, that doesn't matter all that much without Toxic. It also opens up sweeps from pokemon such as Gengar, Gyarados, Dragonite, and maybe some others. It also can't touch Leech Seed Shaymin, an already troublesome problem for Rain Dance.

I feel an extra rain abuser in Rotom W can be quite solid here. It keeps the hyper offensive momentum on your team going, while it is sturdy enough to set Rain. It also offers better resistences in general for your team. It can also touch Vaporeon, a pokemon which can give Rain Dance teams a headache. Rotom W also helps with Hippowdon.

Hide

Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Shadow Ball

Finally I would like to suggest some nitpicks. For one I would suggest Aqua Jet on Kabutops over Brick Break, while using Life Orb since everyone expects Swords Dance. This helps you against Scarfed Tyranitar, while 2HKOing Empoleon with a +0 Waterfall in Rain. This essentially means Scarfed Tyranitar can't revenge you because of Aqua Jet, Gengar can't stop your sweep when Rain is down.

I would also increase Ludicolo's speed to outrun Scarfed Rotom, and use a Life Orb. While Specs may seem attractive, there is still plenty of things which resist your STAB. You also wouldn't want to be locked into Ice Beam. Switching wastes RD turns. Focus Blast also offers redundant coverage, so try running Rain Dance over it. As for EV's, run 60HP/252SpA/196Spe.

On Jirachi, try running 252HP/80Def/176Spe, Wish/Calm Mind/Thunder/Psychic with Leftovers.. I may suggest Mixed Kingdra as well, but that is preference really.

Thanks for the suggestions LizardMan, as usual, you always come through to help me see things from a different perspective. The main reason I ran the Jirachi/Gliscor/Blissey core was so that if something happened to my rain, I wasn't completely screwed. But perhaps I should put more emphasis on keeping rain up, instead of what happens when I lose it. I really like the Rotom-W suggestion, as it covers a lot of the things that Gliscor does (Ground/Fighting) while being able abuse rain. I was thinking of putting a Zapdos in this slot as well, as it does much the same things that the previous mentioned mons do. My problem with the Jirachi set is that it leaves me with 2 rain setters. I really prefer to have 3. But a set similar to the one you posted with Rain Dance could be something I'd love to use. Also, great call on the Aqua Jet idea. Gengar could be troublesome with no rain. Thanks for the rate.

 

[Howard]

I don't know how you could have trouble with Empoleon when all of your mons 2HKO it without any set-up (well, except for Kingdra and Jirachi). Superpower is an option on Kabutops for the guaranteed OHKO without any boosts.

You can bump Kingdra's Attack to 265 (156 Atk EVs), which will guarantee a 2HKO on both Skarmory (w/ SR) and Empoleon after a Dragon Dance.

Blissey is the ultimate set-up bait, and I don't know how you counter Special Sweepers with Substitute or Taunt. Either way, Thunder + Seismic Toss > Thunder Wave + Aromatherapy would most likely be ideal. Thunder lets you break Substitutes from Gengar and 2HKOs Skarmory. You still got a good chance to paralyze things while doing damage.

The key to beating Empoleon is that you PP-stall out its water moves before it activates Petaya. Never let it activate Petaya with a Sub intact - at the very least, break its Substitute. That way, Blissey can survive an attack (but not two), and can take it out.

You may even want to give Jirachi Thunder, so it's not total set-up bait for Empoleon and Skarmory. It even has a much better chance of spreading paralysis thanks to Serene Grace. This can possibly go over U-turn. You lose momentum, but it does provide Jirachi more offensive presence, and it can start flinch-haxing without relying on Blissey. You can keep Jolly, 212 SAtk still does enough damage. You may want to keep U-turn to escape from Magnezone, though. In that case, you can put Thunder over SR, and put SR on Gliscor over Rain Dance, since 2 Damp Rock Rain Summoners are sufficient imo.

Jirachi also has other suitable options. It can provide Wish / Healing Wish to refresh your Rain Sweepers. That would probably go over SR (You may then have to stick SR on Gliscor over Rain Dance). If you're passing Wish, make Jirachi physically defensive. That may be a good thing, because otherwise, DD Outrage or DD Gyarados would have a good chance at beating your team.

252 HP | 236 Def | 20 Spe | Impish Nature.

Hopefully, the changes will improve your team. Have fun.

Thanks a lot for the rate and you make some great points. The bump for Kingdra to 156 could work out really well, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to lose to EVs out of SpA that it would take for that to happen. I really like Thunder on Blissey, as it does help a lot of the problem that I have. With Toxic Spikes being such a problem for Rain Teams, I'm not sure I can afford to lose Aroma. And as far as Jirachi goes, I could definitely see myself using one of the more abusive sets. I'll definitely start testing out some of this stuff, and switch Thunder Wave to Thunder immediately.

 

[Pocket]

Blissey needs Seismic Toss more than Thunder to consistently deal with Special threats. If you have problems with Toxic Spikes, try Qwilfish over Kabutops for Toxic Spikes absorption. It has access to Swords Dance + Poison Jab for Grass / Water mons. Not to mention Explosion to bring SOMETHING down.

Qwilfish

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~ Waterfall
~ Poison Jab
~ Swords Dance / Rain Dance
~ Explosion

I also agree with LizardMan that bringing in your Rain Sweepers safely is top priority. That is why you often see Rain Dance on Scizor, since it has a slow U-turn to switch in Rain Sweepers unscathed. Bronzong also performs similarly with Rain Dance + Hypnosis and / or Explosion. Although Crobat is fast, it prevents any set-up with Taunt, and U-turn to your sweeper to weak attacks after setting up Rain Dance. LizardMan's Azelf suggestion is also a good one. You may want to test some of these out.

 

[MasterZero]

Great team Howard. I absolutely hate rain teams in 4th gen and I'm sure everyone else does too which is why you're gonna have fun using this team.

The only thing I can say is to be careful of empoleon especially. If it gets the set up on your kingdra stuck in outrage or if your bliss is dead it can wreak havoc. Even with bliss around if you're running S-Toss or T-wave and it's in the rain, empoleon can potentially 2HKO with surf before you KO it. The max it does in one shot with the rain up I calc-ed to be 61.48% - 72.41% and if by some chance the person is running Hydropump>surf then blissey runs the risk of being OHKO'd, after rocks of course. But that's all after a boost from rain+petaya+torrent. All I can say is, don't get set up on!!

All in all a great team and keep up the good work Howard!

 

[Howard]

Blissey needs Seismic Toss more than Thunder to consistently deal with Special threats. If you have problems with Toxic Spikes, try Qwilfish over Kabutops for Toxic Spikes absorption. It has access to Swords Dance + Poison Jab for Grass / Water mons. Not to mention Explosion to bring SOMETHING down.

Qwilfish

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~ Waterfall
~ Poison Jab
~ Swords Dance / Rain Dance
~ Explosion

I also agree with LizardMan that bringing in your Rain Sweepers safely is top priority. That is why you often see Rain Dance on Scizor, since it has a slow U-turn to switch in Rain Sweepers unscathed. Bronzong also performs similarly with Rain Dance + Hypnosis and / or Explosion. Although Crobat is fast, it prevents any set-up with Taunt, and U-turn to your sweeper to weak attacks after setting up Rain Dance. LizardMan's Azelf suggestion is also a good one. You may want to test some of these out.

At this point, if I was going to make switches on the team, I would put Azelf as my lead, Scizor as one pivot, and Rotom-W as the other. Still looking forward to more suggestions, guise. Looking for another alternate Jirachi set, atm. Anymore suggestions?

 

[Howard]

Great team Howard. I absolutely hate rain teams in 4th gen and I'm sure everyone else does too which is why you're gonna have fun using this team.

The only thing I can say is to be careful of empoleon especially. If it gets the set up on your kingdra stuck in outrage or if your bliss is dead it can wreak havoc. Even with bliss around if you're running S-Toss or T-wave and it's in the rain, empoleon can potentially 2HKO with surf before you KO it. The max it does in one shot with the rain up I calc-ed to be 61.48% - 72.41% and if by some chance the person is running Hydropump>surf then blissey runs the risk of being OHKO'd, after rocks of course. But that's all after a boost from rain+petaya+torrent. All I can say is, don't get set up on!!

All in all a great team and keep up the good work Howard!

Thanks for comment, man. And yeah, I don't like Empoleons subbing. But, working on the team at this point, I think I can find myself finding some amount of success. It's only going to get better.

 

[Warped Worlds]

Thanks for the suggestions LizardMan, as usual, you always come through to help me see things from a different perspective. The main reason I ran the Jirachi/Gliscor/Blissey core was so that if something happened to my rain, I wasn't completely screwed. But perhaps I should put more emphasis on keeping rain up, instead of what happens when I lose it. I really like the Rotom-W suggestion, as it covers a lot of the things that Gliscor does (Ground/Fighting) while being able abuse rain. I was thinking of putting a Zapdos in this slot as well, as it does much the same things that the previous mentioned mons do. My problem with the Jirachi set is that it leaves me with 2 rain setters. I really prefer to have 3. But a set similar to the one you posted with Rain Dance could be something I'd love to use. Also, great call on the Aqua Jet idea. Gengar could be troublesome with no rain. Thanks for the rate.

No problem! Rotom W, Azelf, and Ludicolo would have Rain Dance. Also yeah, Scizor was the bog standard idea > Jirachi. (Trust me, Scizor is like the best.)

200HP/56Atk/252SpD with U-Turn/Roost/Bullet Punch/Rain Dance with Damp Rock is good, or you can use 248HP/252Atk/8SpD with Superpower/Bullet Punch/Swords Dance/Rain Dance with Damp Rock.

The first one is a specially defensive, long lasting dancer. It can take Hidden Power Fires in Rain. The second one is offensive, and it helps break down stall which is pretty hard for Rain Dance. Oh, and I also updated the EV's in the original post. I made Jirachi more offensive, and Rotom W a bit bulkier.

 

[Howard]

With all of the great suggestions posted, I'm definitely going to be doing some testing, updating and writing some more descriptions for everything and add to this RMT for later viewing. Bear with me, guys. But keep the rates coming (:

 

[Pocket]

Thanks a lot for the rate and you make some great points. The bump for Kingdra to 156 could work out really well, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to lose to EVs out of SpA that it would take for that to happen.

You shouldn't be afraid. Special Attack of 303 vs 317 is only a 5% difference in power. You increase Kingdra's Atk by 5%, and this little power difference provides you with the necessary 2HKOs on Empoleon and Skarmory, that you've been falling short. Unless you can come up with instances where the 5% reduction in special attack would lose you key OHKOs / 2HKOs, I would go ahead with the Attack increase.

As far as Jirachi sets, Healing Wish may be the best to not only let you switch in your Rain Sweepers safely, but heal them in the process.

Iron Head | Rain Dance | Healing Wish | Stealth Rock / Thunder / U-turn
Max Atk or HP / Max Spe; Jolly Nature

Wish-passing may also work. You want Jirachi bulky if you want it to reliably pass Wishes. Being slow lets it pass Wishes to your Sweepers safely as well (if you use U-turn). The Speed provides just enough to outrun Timid Magnezone, but you can simply max out the defenses and go Relaxed / Sassy if you desire. You probably want Stealth Rock on a different mon for this set.

Iron Head | Rain Dance | Wish | U-turn / Thunder
252 HP | 236 Def or SDef | 20 Spe; Impish or Careful Nature

 

[LUST]

Yo Howard, sexy team like always. I agree with most of these rates, you could try the Jirachi Pocket suggested.

Hide

Jirachi @ Damp Rock
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Healing Wish
- Stealth Rock / U-turn
- Iron Head

Rotom-W, Scizor and Quilfish also have good potentials and will fit nicely in this team. It will be a tough job for you to decide on what to replace but it will work out nicely at the end. Again fantastic team. Good Luck!