RBY LC ! (Red/Blue/Yellow LC)

aVocado

I mean, where the fuck should I really even start?
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Hello! RBY LC is a metagame that's fairly simple, it's LC, but with Red/Blue/Yellow mechanics and only RBY Pokemon!

  • Ease of Access: It can easily be played by choosing "Gen 1 OU" or "Gen 1 Custom Game" when issuing a challenge, so this is not a problem at all.
  • Simplicity: It's fairy simple. Only RBY Pokemon are allowed, and only Pokemon that can evolve (and are the 1st stage of an evolution line) can be used, at level 5.
  • Playability: It's very playable! I've had a blast playing it with user: galbia

There are a few things that differ this from the typical OU RBY metagame, and most notable is lack of Hyper Beam. And most importantly: using little Pokemon!


List of usable Pokemon:
Code:
List of usable Pokemon:
- Abra
- Bellsprout
- Bulbasaur
- Caterpie
- Charmander
- Clefairy
- Cubone
- Digglet
- Doduo
- Dratini
- Drowzee
- Eevee
- Ekans
- Exeggcute
- Gastly
- Geodude
- Goldeen
- Grimer
- Growlithe
- Horsea
- Jigglypuff
- Kabuto
- Koffing
- Krabby
- Machop
- Magikarp (lol)
- Magnemite
- Mankey
- Meowth
- Nidoran (M)
- Nidoran (F)
- Oddish
- Omanyte
- Paras
- Pidgey
- Pikachu
- Poliwag
- Ponyta
- Psyduck
- Rattata
- Rhyhorn
- Sandshrew
- Seel
- Shellder
- Slowpoke
- Spearow
- Squirtle
- Staryu
- Tentacool
- Venonat
- Voltorb
- Vulpix
- Weedle
- Zubat
Rules:
- Sleep Clause
- Evasion Clause
- OHKO Clause
- Species Clause
- All Pokemon must be Lv5

Banlist:
- Trapping moves (wrap, fire spin, etc)

Sample battle: Here!


Sample sets/Threatlist:

Slowpoke
Level: 5
- Amnesia
- Blizzard / Rest
- Surf
- Fire Blast / Rest

Slowpoke is easily one of the most threatening Pokemon that I've discovered. Amnesia lets it boost up its Special (both SpD and SpA, but they were mixed together into one stat in RBY) into threatening levels, and it's got bulk to easily set up. Furthermore, a 90% accurate Blizzard (and 30% freeze chance!) and Fire Blast along with Surf means it's got pretty much awesome coverage. It's a scary sweeper that should be prepared for.

Abra
Level: 5
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Mimic / Seismic Toss
- Reflect

Just like how Alakazam is threatening in the OU metagame, Abra is threatening in the LC metagame! Psychic is fantastic coverage and easily the best in LC, along with Thunder Wave to cripple some threats and Mimic to use the opponent's own moves against them, or mimic some moves like Amnesia when facing Slowpoke. Reflect is mostly filler, but its useful to extent Abra's longevity.

to be continued.
 
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EV

not even to dinner with the kushners?
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I'm really glad trapping is outright banned. That takes a lot of headache off the table so we can focus on the core of the viable threats. I'm ready to rock Paras, and Ponyta looks pretty solid, too.
 
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aVocado

I mean, where the fuck should I really even start?
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I'm really glad trapping is outright banned. That takes a lot of headache off the table so we can focus on the core of the viable threats. I'm ready to rock Paras, and Ponyta looks pretty solid, too.
Yeah, did a couple testing matches and they were outright ridiculous.

I haven't honestly tried many things yet, but Rhyhorn was a threat from what I've seen. Nothing can safely switch in and the pure grass-types are rare and far between, and Exeggucute doesn't even learn a grass-type move other than Solar Beam lol.
 
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Diana

This isn't even my final form
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Kakuna and Porygon aren't actually legal here, Kakuna's evolved and Porygon2 didn't exist so Porygon's the only one in the line.

Anyway, I remember a few people experimenting with this at one point. Exeggcute was pretty much everywhere. It had key resistances to Ground, Electric, and Water so it could actually switch into Diglett and Pikachu. Pikachu was good for being able to get around Ground-types but Exeggcute and Dratini gave it fits. Gastly is probably really good too just for the Normal resistance.
 
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Rhyhorn
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Body Slam

Rhyhorn is ridicolously good in this metagame. With all the thunder wave users running around (almost everything gets and runs Thunder Wave because of lack of better options) it can easily clean up late game with 18 Attack (2HKOs Slowpoke) and awesome physical bulk to take a hit if needed. It is a full counter to Pikachu and any Electric-type and the lack of Explosion doesn't matter when its stats are a lot better than Geodude's.

Another powerful threat is



Gastly
Level: 5
- Hypnosis
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Mega Drain

With access to the fastest Sleep move and decent coverage (and a surprisingly powerful explosion) Gastly is the perfect anti lead aa it has a decent chance of beating lead Exeggcute and Vulpix (cool mon too even without Fire Spin :c). It also hits super hard with 19 Special Attack and can OHKO Rhyhorn that tries to absorb explosion. He also has the power to OHKO Doduo (who hits really hard with STAB Double Edge).
 
A deadly mon and set I find is:


Staryu
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave

Hits a whopping 41 out of 55 mons allowed in this metagame for super effective damage. With access to some of the best coverage in the tier many Pokemon gets 2hko'd in the process. Hitting somewhat hard and sitting at a decent speed tier (Only outran by Diglett and Voltorb I believe) are Staryu's main strengths.
 
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This Meta looks like a lot of fun and it's a shame that more people aren't playing as I would love to get into it. Question: do you max out all stats at 252 or do you just leave the pokes uninvested?
 

aVocado

I mean, where the fuck should I really even start?
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This Meta looks like a lot of fun and it's a shame that more people aren't playing as I would love to get into it. Question: do you max out all stats at 252 or do you just leave the pokes uninvested?
Uninvested as EVs didn't exist in RBY.
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
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So how do we handle move legalities? Do we allow all level-up moves or only those before 5? Most of these Pokemon would only be available through GSC eggs anyway so I can see why we'd want to not overcomplicate things, just wanted to ask for clarification.
 

aVocado

I mean, where the fuck should I really even start?
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
So how do we handle move legalities? Do we allow all level-up moves or only those before 5? Most of these Pokemon would only be available through GSC eggs anyway so I can see why we'd want to not overcomplicate things, just wanted to ask for clarification.
Yeah, I'm keeping it simple, all moves that the actual Pokemon can learn are legal, even if they're learned at like, level 100. But Abra can't use a move that's say, only learned by Kadabra or Alakazam.
 

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Smogon's Resident Robot
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LC Co-Leader
Yeah, I'm keeping it simple, all moves that the actual Pokemon can learn are legal, even if they're learned at like, level 100. But Abra can't use a move that's say, only learned by Kadabra or Alakazam.
That's a relief to hear. dsr95 and I tried this a while back but the lack of level-up moves made it annoying.

I had Exeggcute and it was amazing. Meowth was also a nice surprise.
 
Hmm, this looks pretty fun. Is anyone up for a few matches on Showdown? I've never tried to play RBY comp, so this seems like a cool way to get into it.
 
I've been playing RBY LC for a long time but the only thing I disagree with is allowing Pokemon to get their level-up since there was no breeding in gen 1. For example, Slowpoke gets Amnesia on level 40 so... It wouldn't even legally get it back then.
EDIT: Also, please add Dragon Rage into the banlist. We don't want Growlithe/Dratini
spam lol
 
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I've been playing RBY LC for a long time but the only thing I disagree with is allowing Pokemon to get their level-up since there was no breeding in gen 1. For example, Slowpoke gets Amnesia on level 40 so... It wouldn't even legally get it back then.
EDIT: Also, please add Dragon Rage into the banlist. We don't want Growlithe/Dratini
spam lol
uhh....... yea, breeding in gen 2 then backtrading is the only way to get most pokemon anyway, so just get the level-up moves then.

EDIT: also, I like how abra is the only pure psychic type allowed :P
 
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Drowzee counts, too ._.
I get it, but there's still a lot of flaws on that. But whatever, I'll drop this point since it won't be listened to anyways
 
This seems like a very nice Meta. Can anyone put a threatlist somewhere? As a person that has never played RBY competitively before I'm a little lost om what to watch for and just slapping six 'mons is difficult.
 
There's probably going to be some Golem/Rhydon type things where there's arguments about which is better (I'm not talking about just Geodude/Rhyhorn arguments)
 
I've played quite a bit of RBY LC on and off for a long time now, so I'd just like to share some of the things I've learned over the past year and a half or so. Tagging Crystal_, because I think he was one of the more knowledgeable players of this metagame that I learned a little from, and he can correct me if anything I say here is wrong or misleading.

First of all, RBY LC is a pretty standard metagame. It's kinda like OU in that there's a handful of great Pokemon to choose from and a few others that are also decent, but the rest of the Pokemon in the metagame are generally on the side of gimmicky. Keep in mind that it's also a very fast-paced metagame, often becoming a game of kill-die-kill-die.

You've got three Pokemon that are basically mandatory on any serious RBY LC team because they're too good not to have: Exeggcute, Staryu, and Diglett. Exeggcute is a pretty solid tank thanks to its decent bulk and typing, making it one of the only solid answers to things like Diglett, Pikachu, Gastly, and Rhydon. It can also put things to sleep, paralyze stuff, toss around decently powerful Psychics, and boom on things. It's a very important team member for its ability to pivot in and out of top threats. Staryu is another one. It's one of the most dangerous offensive Pokemon out there. Between Surf, Blizzard, and Thunderbolt, very little switches in safely. You've got a couple of things that can switch in once like Drowzee and Voltorb, but that's about it. It can also paralyze stuff with Thunder Wave, and it's the only LC Pokemon with Recover, which is handy. Diglett is pretty much the best revenge killer out there. It's tied for the fastest Pokemon in the metagame with Voltorb, and it has a powerful STAB Earthquake and a pretty decently strong Slash. Diglett has very few switch-ins in general, and even Exeggcute has a shot at being 3HKOed by Slash.

Another pair of Pokemon that are pretty common on RBY LC teams are the Electrics, Pikachu and Voltorb. Both are just pretty hard to switch into in general, and they're also some of the best checks to Staryu. Pikachu is probably the better of the two due to the combination of Surf and Quick Attack, letting it KO Diglett on the switch and obliterate Rhydon. However, Voltorb has a couple of cool advantages in that it has a great 19 Speed stat, Explosion to blow up and KO stuff like Exeggcute and Diglett, and the fact that its extra speed makes it arguably the best Staryu switch-in in the game.

You've also got a handful of other Psychics outside of Exeggcute that range from decent to great. In fact, a lot of RBY LC teams will have at least one of these on their team, if not more. Abra is easily the best with its solid speed stat and very powerful STAB Psychic. It can also paralyze stuff just like Alakazam in OU, which is useful. Just a quick note, I don't recommend Reflect on this thing. It doesn't quite half physical damage at level 5 due to the weird effect that level has in the RBY damage formula, and RBY LC is so fast-paced that you're better off paralyzing stuff or tossing aroud Psychics most of the time. Drowzee is another cool choice. It has sleep, unlike Abra, and it has good bulk to take hits from things like Staryu before paralyzing back and hitting them with Psychic. Slowpoke is another good Psychic, one I'm especially fond of. It's kind of the opposite of Drowzee defensively, much better physical than special bulk. It has Blizzard for Exeggcute and Diglett, which is great. Some people run Amnesia, but I've found that the metagame is just too fast to really get great mileage out of it. I prefer Earthquake since it 2HKOs Abra (Slowpoke makes a pretty decent switch-in) and OHKOs Pikachu on the switch a good portion of the time (and Voltorb too after a little bit of damage).

Speed is pretty important in this metagame, and 18 is pretty much the magic benchmark for a fast Pokemon. Anything under this benchmark suffers a bit by default, and pretty much any Pokemon at 18 Speed are viable in some way. I've already mentioned Abra, Staryu, and Pikachu, but Poliwag, Meowth, and Ponyta are also viable. Poliwag has pretty solid Water typing with Blizzard for Exeggcute, the fastest sleep in the game, and even Amnesia if you find an opening for a sweep. Meowth is pretty much Persian for LC. It has a hard time doing great amounts of damage like some other offensive Pokemon, but it has great overall coverage such that it doesn't have many safe switch-ins. STAB Slash is also a great cleaning move. Ponyta is probably the worst 18 Speed Pokemon, but it's still alright. It leads pretty well since it forces Exeggcute out and even has a chance to beat Drowzee leads with Fire Spin + Fire Blast (although Fire Spin seems to be banned here, though I think you'd be fine just banning Dratini or Wrap). Throughout the game, it can capitalize on obvious Exeggcute switch-ins to put the opponent under a lot of pressure. Easily the worst problem is Staryu, but Body Slam threatens to paralyze on the switch, which is really cool.

There are a couple of other things that are decent enough to be useful but have problems that make them kinda blah choices. Doduo is one I've tried before, and it's not terrible. I really wish it had 18 Speed, but it has a high Atk stat, strong STAB Normal attacks, and Drill Peck for Gastly and Exeggcute. If you can set up an Agility, it can threaten to sweep later in the game. Rhyhorn is one I've seen thrown around a lot, but it's really overrated. It's really powerful once it gets in, and it hard walls a couple of things like Voltorb and the occasional Doduo, but it just matches up so poorly against the rest of the metagame. Exeggcute outspeeds and 2HKOs with Psychic while Rhyhorn only 3HKOs back with Rock Slide. Diglett 2HKOs with Earthquake and Rhyhorn only has a small chance to OHKO back. Staryu and Poliwag are obvious wins. Pikachu OHKOs with Surf, and if Meowth doesn't OHKO, it still survives the Earthquake and 2HKOs. Abra generally survives the Earthquake and 2HKOs with Psychic. Drowzee wins even more easily. You could in theory switch into Ponyta easily, but Fire Blast has a 30% chance to burn, which is dangerous. There's just too many things that it loses 1-on-1 to, and the omnipresent Exeggcute is a hard answer to it. Gastly is sort of the same way. It hard checks Meowth and is a decent Staryu check, but 17 Speed really hurts. It's weak to common Psychics and Earthquakes, it has no STAB moves, it's walled by Exeggcute unless it blows up, etc. It's kind of a cool Explosion deterrent, but Exeggcute is generally hesitant to use it anyway since it's such an important team member, and the only other Exploder is Voltorb. Not as big a deal as it is in OU. Best you'll get out of Gastly on average is putting something to sleep (assuming Exeggcute hasn't already done this), checking Meowth and maybe checking Staryu at least once, and then just blowing up to hopefully kill something.

If I had to come up with a rough viability ranking, it'd probably look something like this:

S Rank: So insanely good that they're pretty much mandatory on any team.
  • Diglett
  • Exeggcute
  • Staryu
A Rank: Really good, should always be seriously considered on a team.
  • Abra
  • Meowth
  • Pikachu
  • Poliwag
B Rank: Pretty decent Pokemon with notable niches, but don't fill your team with these guys.
  • Drowzee
  • Ponyta
  • Slowpoke
  • Voltorb
C Rank: Usable, but have a lot of problems that make their perks less impressive.
  • Doduo
  • Gastly
  • Rhyhorn
D Rank: Mostly gimmicks. You can use one of these, but you're generally better off not using them.
  • Everything else

There are a couple of moves that you should probably avoid in general. Toxic is completely terrible. No LC Pokemon has at least 32 HP, so after the opponent switches out, they will only take 1 HP per turn. LC is way too face-paced for this. Seismic Toss sounds like a good idea for Psychic vs Psychic, but it's horrible too. Obviously, you're only doing 5 damage to anything, which is only a 5HKO against Abra, Drowzee, and Exeggcute and a 6HKO against Slowpoke. Psychic will generally do more damage, including when resisted. Even Drowzee's Psychic against Abra, the worst case scenario for either of these two, is matching Seismic Toss for damage at its worst, and at least that comes with a 30% chance to drop Abra's Special stat and do even more damage. Reflect and Light Screen are also kind of shaky since they don't exactly half damage at level 5 due to the RBY damage formula. The main example here is Abra, and the fact that it doesn't have Recover like Kadabra and Alakazam do makes it worse of an option than it is on Abra's older siblings.

So yeah, that's about all I can think of, sort of a general overview of the metagame from what I've played.
 
Hard to disagree with anything Agent Gibbs said there. That was a very solid post! I haven't played this meta much lately mostly because of lack of activity, but I'd love to play it regurarly. It's a very straightforward and dynamic metagame and very fun to play!

I made a rby lc sort of guide almost two years ago that goes a bit more Pokemon by Pokemon and I think it's still pretty accurate even now: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?590459-Rby-lc&p=15476141#post15476141. But if you are going to play lc for the first time for fun, maybe it's better to just come up with your own conclusions and experience the meta by yourself first.

Anyway, to add to Agent Gibbs' post, I'd just like to add a case for Cleafairy and also add that Drowzee and Slowpoke have been some of my favourite pokemon lately (always alongside egg/staryu/diglett and abra). These three are similar in many ways. They often have good matchups 1on1 against the faster and frailer pokemon at full health conditions (2hko vs 3hko, 0hko vs 2hko, or threat of paralysis). Having said that, it's hard to quantify matchups in general in LC, because it's a metagame of you die, i die, you die, i die, really (albeit exeggcute and psychic vs psychic break this rule a bit, well and the occasional hardwall too). It's about controlling this tempo and trying to approach to a late game where you have advantage on. Knowing when and what to sac and/or pivot is extremely important to succeed in this meta. Well timed double switches will often grant you a relevant advantage but if you mispredict trying one it may turn out to be a disaster (the most common example i can think of is getting a pokemon with a super effective move against grass in into an egg switch).

A good rule of thumb is to keep egg away from residual game as much as possible, in order to be able to switch it into dig/pikachu/gastly/rhyhorn/voltorb up to a couple of times. Also, toxic is useless, recover very rarely works and reflect/screen usually end up being a waste of a turn (partly because lc is very fast paced, partly because of the damage mechanics applied at level 5).

All in all, regarding the viability list I think that once you go down from the top 3/4 there are a bunch of Pokemon that are pretty much on par as far as usefulness goes until you reach the ~doduo/gastly/ponyta gap. Maybe just maybe there are three pokemon that I would place a small gap below the others, and these are voltorb, clefairy and meowth, (the 'others' being pikachu, drowzee, poliwag and slowpoke) but I don't see a big difference at all. And the gap between these seven and doduo/gastly/ponyta is very small too tbh.

As for the move compatibility issues with level 5 pokemon I just wouldn't bother. lc is after all a concept taken from new gens where breeding exists, so I'd say just keep all the lv 100 movepools allowed just for the sake of simplicity and also because it's always been played like that in PO.

P.S.: There's a link to a rby lc warstory in my signature too!
 

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