Lower Tiers RBY NU Hub

CoralReaper707 said:
ATTENTION TO ANYONE WHO IS IN SUPPORT OF A POLIWHIRL BAN: I do understand your points, but do you realize what people are gonna start using when Poliwhirl gets yeeted from the tier? They're gonna be using this little shitbaby right here.

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Yeah...Just think about how stupid that sounds.
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Poliwag is frail and weak and gets 2hkod by a lot of things (like Zard Slash) that Whirl lives, meaning it has far less upside (won’t get 2-3KOs nearly as often) and more downside (dies doing nothing a lot more often). It also lacks useful moves like Counter and Seismic Toss that Whirl has. Definitely not broken and even if it was, the solution would be ban Wag, not let something stronger than it exist because “it sounds stupid.”
 
also people already tried using poliwag in whirl metagame lol, if anything wag makes more sense when whirl is legal since u ‘could’ run them both to overwhelm checks plus u can potentially use wag as a whirl switchin after hypnosis. (in practice its kind of bad, plus ‘overwhelming whirl checks’ isnt rly needed bc its whirl lol). im sure there are replays with wag tho i wouldnt be able to direct you to them.
 
Sabelette said:
The stats get less awful if you hit Hypnosis since one boosts puts you at the equivalent of 149 Special, almost Mewtwo levels (with a weakness to crits ofc). It's really just its moves that are busted.
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Man, we could really do with Venusaur right no- Oh wait, nvm. It has fucking Blizzard and Psychic.
 
phoopes said:
Poliwhirl is now (unsurprisingly) banned:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-nu-poliwhirl-voting.3715170/#post-9488074

Thoughts? I think NUSD showed that it’s a much better meta with the ban and I’m excited to see that continue in ALTPL. I still think Big 4 + Venomoth + 1 is a really strong team choice but this definitely allows for more creativity in the builder
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It's funny how Poliwhirl is In the same ban list as his older brother (Poliwrath). At least I can run Psyduck now!
 
Alright well my ALTPL is over so may as well dump the teams I used, most are pretty boring and would be good sample teams. Enjoy the mid player takes and teams:

:charizard: :mr_mime: :venomoth: :blastoise: :clefable: :nidoking:
https://pokepast.es/3642c438dc832a43

Vs Diannie, g2, I played lead SD zard to punish staying in and clicking slash in zard v zard, they ended up playing against scout and actually switching out of it so it didn't get to sweep till late. Basic big 5 team, nothing to talk about except no Fblast on zard means theoretically a moth can stay in and sleep it (as Diannie did but she said it was desperation, not reading my set)

:mr_mime: :charizard: :venomoth: :blastoise: :clefable: :golem:
https://pokepast.es/cff8b005ce4c6ae6

This is the most basic team of all time and a really obvious sample, lead mime can Twave stuff and go to golem after especially if the opposing lead is a zard and they switch out to avoid para. If you're better than your opponent its hard to lose with this barring hax

:mr_mime: :raticate: :venomoth: :blastoise: :clefable: :kingler:
https://pokepast.es/401cd1014f5cd3ca

Funny zardless team I played into Nicole but I didn't really get any of the things I needed to see if this is viable; I think double water to surprise zards + lead mime to beat opposing lead zards in the 1v1 if they stay can work but this team's also absurdly weak to Trode and not happy to see nidoking ether. Might have potential with some revision, idk

:wigglytuff: :venomoth: :mr_mime: :clefable: :blastoise: :charizard:
https://pokepast.es/fbed0d622109bcb3

I've literally never lost with tuff lead, this thing's broken as shit when the enemy doesn't lead moth, standard big 5 team but you frontload your 6th to spread para. Switching moth into it is a nonstarter cause if you take twave and a hit you're already in mime/zard range anyway, and you're screwed if you miss a sleep and take another hit. Plus para'd moth is easy to wake in front of so you could gamble that vs someone who doesn't punish well

:mr_mime: :charizard: :blastoise: :clefable: :venomoth: :electrode:
https://pokepast.es/d9930b9c61c5cd83

This is the trode team I played vs Nicole - note that the fire spin on the set was a builder error and it was supposed to have swords dance, i still am not sure if i fucked up or the server fucked me over since I also had an incorrect moveset on my moth in the same BO3 on a different team (the ratking team was supposed to have dedge hbeam on moth to surprise 1v1 mime). it fucked me up midgame when suddenly my zard was in front of a sleeping mon with no way to boost, but yeah this is a pretty simple "opponent doesn't use grounds" punish or MU fish. worked great till I threw

:mr_mime: :charizard: :clefable: :venomoth: :blastoise: :raticate:
https://pokepast.es/d20da36df34af3ea

Despite the name I actually played this vs ikiq g2 and it rolled, I like the rat. Again not much to say, rat's just a good mon and the rest is big 5.


I chickened out of playing the experimental stuff except vs nicole and then builder/I fucked up and the sets got mis-assigned anyway so I didn't get to show anything fun but I have a couple ideas to test in the future. Overall very centralized meta and the better player will win most times due to superior lines but anyone can lose when they full para twice or something cause the tier is so fast. I think my games vs Diannie and Ikiq were good examples of outplaying, especially vs Diannie g1 when I brought a garbage team (do not lead toise)

Here's my VR enjoy the hot takes on mons I think might actually be usable here

download.png


S: Order is irrelevant, your team has all 3 of these or its a bad/matchup fish team
A+: Most teams should also have these; you can drop Zard for a Zard check as a surprise or Moth for Egg or surprise sing sleep but this is risky. Zard's set diversity is scary as hell and its the one consistent answer to Moth bullshit + wins games if it gets one free turn, Moth almost always gets a KO and a half if not more
A: Golem feels like the most consistently good 6th mon to me, it can punish paralyzed Mime/Clef harder than the others and OHKOing Zard is obviously good, the others all have their uses but Golem has a hard time not getting mileage
A-: All of these are good back 6th mons, Nidoking sweeps through weakened teams, Kingler is broken if it doesn't miss and can check Zard pretty well lategame + loves if the mimes trade themselves, Rat is fast as fuck and beats the "let zard trade early" strat, Kabu's EQ weakness honestly sucks ass and I think it's the worst of the 4 but the upfront slash damage while still having water coverage is cool
B+: Wiggly is absurd into mime or zard leads, Egg is a semi consistent switchin if you lead zard and see an enemy mime (Nicole was smart for this), Moltres still hits like a truck and it feels like there's less Kabu around but Zard optimization is making Molt scary to use
B: Can we admit Trode doesn't suck now? It's a matchup fish but it completely shits on teams that either lack grounds or have to use them early due to hax. Like if you play Mime lead back Golem and your Mime gets haxed to shit in the lead matchup you're kind of out of options and the Golem probably gets slept right after. Trode is good and its existence sucks
B-: Tales exists I guess and trades well with mime/clef and parafusion is annoying as hell; Seadra wins situations that Kingler or Nidoking usually win too so I'm not very into it but it's good enough to be NU
C+: Fearow is so close to being broken, eats mime and moth alive, I think it has potential. Pinsir punishes these teams using zard up early and I think it could be a thing. Arcanine is faster than 90 and 1v1s half the big threats in the tier but where do you slot this thing in this meta (idk, maybe put it in C)
C: Abra's sick if you lead it and they don't lead Zard, but still could just run Wiggly and be safer; Ape lost its niche but still has nice coverage and speed ala rat with rock slide for enemy Zard ig
The rest: I have ideas, don't worry about it yet till I try these in practice, they're probably all bad
 
Btw I'm gonna run a VR and sample teams update so if you have modern NU teams you would like featured please submit them - I expect the teams still in ALTPL will not want to do so till after but just letting people know from now. I'll have reqs ready as soon as the tour ends.
 
My ALTPL season is also over so I'll share my VR and thoughts on the meta:

1678674799609.png


Clefable: This mon beats just about everything else with ease thanks to its coverage and access to twave, Body Slam/Blizzard/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave is the most common set but Sing is a fine option that can win a game by sleeping opposing Clef although dropping coverage/STAB leaves you open to some tricky situations with getting walled. Hyper Beam is an incredibly strong attack that can be worth dropping coverage for, a good use for it is letting Clef switch into Moth post sleep to pick it off much earlier. Dropping Blizz is generally inadvisable since Nidoking will often trade blows with Clef, so lacking coverage there is brutal.

Mr. Mime: The best lead in the tier and also the best revenge killer due to its speed and power, this mon just about does it all.

Blastoise: A great check to a huge amount of the tier, Seismic Toss allows it to functionally trade with just about everything and Body Slam has the threat of paralysis against nearly everything switching in. Surf, Seismic Toss, Counter, Body Slam is an incredibly consistent moveset that allows Blastoise to put in a lot of work every game.

Venomoth: The best sleeper in the tier and found on the vast majority of teams, this mon is incredibly consistent at getting sleep off and then paralyzing a switchin with Stun Spore and proceeding to deal significant damage with Psychic and Double-Edge. Its speed tier alone dissuades anything slower than it such as Clefable and Blastoise to revenge kill early, as Moth will simply get revenge sleep off. Blastoise in particular doesn't threaten Moth with anything except Body Slam paralysis, so any Blastoise hitting the field early is free Moth entry. Letting Moth in for free is a huge disadvantage and this mon punishes bad lines like little else. It's not S tier for me though because it is replaceable by Exeggcute on some teams and riskier Sing Clef teams.

Charizard: The 2nd best lead in the tier, has an awkward but playable lead Mime matchup. Back Zard is also a phenomenal sweeping threat with Swords Dance, able to clean weakened teams with ease if it gets a setup opportunity. Getting that opportunity can be quite hard however, and Charizard has a few notable bad matchups (Golem, Kingler, twavers) that it needs weakened or gone for it to really take over a game. The most consistent lead Zard set is Swords Dance, Body Slam, Earthquake, Fire Blast for its ability to put in work later in the game and from the lead slot, but Slash over Fire Blast is an option to also hit Mime while being 100% accurate (but losing crit rate).

Golem: The most consistent 6th in "big 5 +1" teams, has a great back Zard matchup and a better Mime matchup than nearly everything else considering it is 3hko'd by Psychic and 2hkos back with Earthquake. With Substitute + Explosion it is nearly guaranteed to put in work every game. Its main issue is of course waters, which often feast on Zard + Golem endgames.

Nidoking: This mon's speed and coverage is excellent since it outspeeds and 2hkos a lot of the tier. Its main issues are that it's a lot weaker to back Zard due to getting ohkod by +4 Earthquake, and Mime outspeeds and 2hkos with Psychic. Excellent mon otherwise though, takes on the vast majority of 6ths on big 5 teams and has very limited switchins.

Kingler: I am a HUGE Kingler fan, I think this mon is fantastic considering how many people spam lead Mime and have back Zard which is a structure that Kingler tends to destroy lategame. Its main issues are back Mime and Nidoking, which 2hko with Thunderbolt, and Crabhammer accuracy can be a huge letdown.

Wigglytuff: Wiggly is just a worse Clef but it's still very good considering its access to Thunder Wave and strong normal STAB in Hyper Beam. Lead Wiggly has serviceable enough Mime + Zard matchups that it can be worth using in order to enjoy both back Zard and back Mime, which can be devastating. Lead Wiggly structures are also able to drop Zard a lot more effectively since Mime can fill the fast revenge killer role vs lead Mime needing Zard's speed or becoming flawed otherwise.

Raticate: Rat was a lot better in NUSD when everyone was using exclusively Zard lead, but the discovery of Mime as the best lead has meant it's dropped off a little due to it being a worse revenge killer with back Zard in the picture to outspeed it. It's still good of course, STAB Hyper Beam from a good attack stat hits incredibly hard and it has the coverage to hit everything in the tier.

Electrode: This thing is the devil, if it doesn't land a ground matchup then it's pretty much an S tier mon, outspeeds everything and has a massive crit rate with a strong STAB and access to Thunder Wave to ruin a lot of mons. Obviously matchup fishy but this mon is undoubtedly NU. It can also deal 50% to Nidoking with Explosion which is still something at least.

Kabutops: I think Kabutops has fallen off quite a bit with Whirl gone, Slash's instant damage isn't as valuable with less switches than before and its Earthquake weakness makes facing Zard endgame a lot scarier than Kingler. The Moltres matchup is somewhat relevant though, as is the extra insurance against people still using Fire Spin Zard (Tip: do not use Fire Spin unless there are basically no other options)

Moltres: This thing's BST is absurd but the back Zard endgame is pretty horrendous and it's much harder to fit another Zard check alongside it now. Its speed tier is still really nice and it blows huge holes into Clef and Mime.

Exeggcute: Still as hax prone as ever but Mime lead Egg or Zard lead Egg really appreciate being able to go to it vs Mime lead to get sleep off and then have both back Zard and back Mime available to take over games. Lead Zard can run Swords Dance/Earthquake/Body Slam/Hyper Beam to destroy opposing lead Zards since +2 Bslam + Hbeam kills, and if you run into the lead Mime matchup it's a simple switch to Egg.

Ninetales: This mon is a really great Mime antilead as like Zard it also deals massive damage with Fire Blast but is not weak to Thunderbolt. The lead Zard matchup is quite bad though, as you basically give it a free turn unless you Confuse Ray and pivot out but at the high chance of taking big Earthquake damage.

Seadra: Another water type, its main point of difference with the others is access to Agility to sweep some endgames, but it has the big issue of being walled by Blastoise and needing it removed (generally achieved by trading your own). Still a decently deadly endgame mon if the right pieces are gone, and its Hydro Pump hits even neutral targets pretty hard.

Overall I think the tier's improved a lot since NUSD, mainly due to lead Mime being acknowledged as the best lead and subsequently diversifying teams since Zard lead and Mime lead teams have very different matchups. Mime lead teams' main issue is that they need back Zard for the speed or end up being very flawed/matchup fishy, and Zard itself has issues with certain matchups (Golem, Kingler, inability to set up on mons with Thunder Wave).

Trode is really annoying and I found myself forced to run a lot of grounds in ALTPL in order to not have horrible Trode matchups which led to my usage of other mons being relatively low (0 Wiggly usage on my end is wild though, definitely should have brought it more).

NU is in a great spot at the moment, I think it's a lot more consistent with Whirl gone and it feels very diverse despite most teams having the same 5 mons due to the lead + 6th mon choice (and of course dropping Moth for Egg or dropping Zard altogether) and the sheer amount of lines available with regards to paralysis and sleep early on. Looking forward to playing this more in Grand Slam and NU Cup!
 
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Alright nerds its time for an interim NU VR Update! Here are the qualifications and who made reqs. Even if you made reqs, I'm going to request you consider abstaining if you have not played RBY NU (at least in roomtours or friendlies or teamtour practice or something) during the post-Whirl meta, which may be the case for some voters from RBYPL/NU Classic:
  • Won at least one game of RBY NU in RBYPL III
  • Won at least one game of RBY NU in NUSD III
  • Won at least one game of RBY NU in ALTPL I
  • Placed top 6 in RBY NU Classic
With that, the voter list (21 people):
To the above players, please (if you feel informed and able to state an opinion) submit a numerical VR to me via PM on Smogon forums. An example of this would be...

1. Meowth
2. Golbat
3. NidoranF
...
30. Hitmonchan

where in this case you think that Meowth is the best Pokemon in the tier, Golbat is the second-best, NidoranF is third-best, and so on all the way until you rank the last Pokemon that you think is relevant in the tier (in this example list, Hitmonchan).

To the above players, I will give a deadline of April 8th to submit your list to me in PMs either here or via a Discord DM. At that time I'll give one last prod to people to submit then aggregate the rankings. Please only send me your final VRs and consider where you want to place things!

This VR will not necessarily affect PU; most likely this will just be informal as part of a resource update for now. That said, please still take this seriously, we want to provide up-to-date and useful resources for the community!

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me on either the Smogon forums or on Discord (@Sabelette#9807). If you qualify with these reqs and I missed you please let me know and I'll add you. If you'd like to submit new sample teams, please also send those to me and I'll make sure they get added - we need new ones! Thanks!
 
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This is what I think about the metagame right now, I'm not experienced enough to give a detailed opinion but I did realize when I played RBYPL some mons are broken enough to revert a bad position to a winning position. Some mons that surprised me a lot when I test teams was abra with that good speed it has the possibility of being a good option on your team or scyther as sd user can be a good option in late game or just a good dragonair with a varied movepool that can finish the game uncomplicated game.

my-image (5).png
 
EDIT: This is official, Electrode is now NU and Porygon has dropped to PU.

Our 2023 interim VR is complete! Assuming this is made official: Electrode is now officially NU and banned from PU and below, and Porygon has dropped to PU! This is NOT official yet, we're figuring it out because there is no PU council, but this should accurately reflect current meta opinions on NU.

Your new VR, ordered within ranks:
my-image (2).png


And the text version:
S: Clefable, Mr. Mime
A: Blastoise, Charizard, Venomoth
A-: Golem, Nidoking
B: Raticate, Moltres, Kabutops, Kingler, Wigglytuff
B-: Seadra, Electrode, Exeggcute, Ninetales
C: Fearow, Rapidash, Porygon
D: Pinsir, Abra, Arcanine, Primeape, Sandslash

01 Clefable: +1
02 Mr. Mime: -1
03 Blastoise: +1
04 Charizard: -1
05 Venomoth: +4
06 Golem: +2
07 Nidoking: 0
08 Raticate: +5
09 Moltres: +1
10 Kabutops: -4
11 Kingler: +1
12 Wigglytuff: +3
13 Seadra: +1
14 Electrode: +7
15 Exeggcute: -4
16 Ninetales: +1
17 Fearow: +2
18 Rapidash: +4
19 Porygon: -3
20 Pinsir: 0
21 Abra: +7
22 Arcanine: +1
23 Primeape: -5
24 Sandslash: 0

Newly Unranked:
Dragonair, Gastly, Scyther, Machamp, Nidoqueen, Slowpoke, Drowzee, Magneton, Magmar, Seaking, Muk, Poliwag, Ponyta

You can check out players' individual rankings here; please note that due to outlier compensation, the average ranking on that sheet will not match the final VR. Thank you to all VR submitters for your participation in updating the tier's resources!

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1681088144325.png


1681089107068.png
 
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Thoughts on some ranking changes:

Moth: this should be thoroughly unsurprising to everyone now that Whirl is gone.

Golem/Nido: people are afraid of Trode and rightfully respecting it; also Kabu falling off is a buff to Golem.

Rat: finally people put respect on the rat, there is literally no way to stop this thing without losing a full mon for it and trying to switch around it is stupid.

Moltres: very confused by this but a few voters are hardcore into Fire Spin so ig it makes sense, I personally put it 13th lmao. I am similarly incredibly confused at Rapidash being that high, it's not the worst but it's definitely worse than every single thing below it till at least Primeape, surely.

Tuff: Tuff is like 75% of a Clef, one day people will respect the normals appropriately beyond just Clef.

Seadra: underrated, I've been playing it more and this mon is actually kind of great rn with all the ground spam. It'll be seen more in the future for sure.

Trode: about fucking time

Unranked stuff: Idk how people don't rank Dnair, Gastly, Drowzee, or Magneton in particular, seems a lot of VR submitters just stopped at B- or shortly after. I think all of these are threats but not NU.
 
With NU in RBYPL IV being over, I just wanted to make a quick post about a mon currently in PU that I think is extremely viable in NU::arcanine:

The meta currently revolves around Venomoth and not letting it get Sleep Powder off for free. Arcanine being faster and threatening it with a STAB fire move is valuable for delaying your opponent's sleep and getting your own faster. So what makes Arcanine better than the other fires, notably Charizard? Arcanine has a lot of neutral matchups compared to Charizard in the back, as the latter loses to Electrode, Golem and hates Thunder Wave from Clefable, Mr. Mime and Wigglytuff. These matchups often make Charizard more of a liability, especially considering it isn't very strong from the get go and relies on Swords Dance to output high damage. Arcanine is immediately threatening with its STAB and Body Slam + Hyper Beam combination. Compared to Ninetales and Rapidash, Arcanine is bulkier on the physical side and much stronger, able to click its normal moves for high damage instead of relying on the inaccurate Fire Blast. This is especially relevant vs the water types Seadra and Blastoise, which Arcanine can deal significant chip to.

To illustrate my points, here's a game featuring Arcanine from RBYPL IV Finals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1nu-732863
On turn 13, Arcanine is able to switch into Moltres and respond with a strong Body Slam into Blastoise - Charizard's Body Slam would deal far less damage and is a harder move to fit in the first place. On turn 23, Arcanine's neutral matchup into Electrode lets it perform the defensive duty of switching in. It then goes on the offensive, swinging momentum back where Charizard would have been unable to come in in the first place.

As juoean was saying on the discord, lead Charizards dropping Earthquake more means that on paper at least, Arcanine lead could be worth exploring considering its much stronger matchup into lead Mime.

I hope this was enough to convince you of Arcanine's place in the meta and its status as a legit NU mon!
 
nicole7735 said:
With NU in RBYPL IV being over, I just wanted to make a quick post about a mon currently in PU that I think is extremely viable in NU::arcanine:

The meta currently revolves around Venomoth and not letting it get Sleep Powder off for free. Arcanine being faster and threatening it with a STAB fire move is valuable for delaying your opponent's sleep and getting your own faster. So what makes Arcanine better than the other fires, notably Charizard? Arcanine has a lot of neutral matchups compared to Charizard in the back, as the latter loses to Electrode, Golem and hates Thunder Wave from Clefable, Mr. Mime and Wigglytuff. These matchups often make Charizard more of a liability, especially considering it isn't very strong from the get go and relies on Swords Dance to output high damage. Arcanine is immediately threatening with its STAB and Body Slam + Hyper Beam combination. Compared to Ninetales and Rapidash, Arcanine is bulkier on the physical side and much stronger, able to click its normal moves for high damage instead of relying on the inaccurate Fire Blast. This is especially relevant vs the water types Seadra and Blastoise, which Arcanine can deal significant chip to.

To illustrate my points, here's a game featuring Arcanine from RBYPL IV Finals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1nu-732863
On turn 13, Arcanine is able to switch into Moltres and respond with a strong Body Slam into Blastoise - Charizard's Body Slam would deal far less damage and is a harder move to fit in the first place. On turn 23, Arcanine's neutral matchup into Electrode lets it perform the defensive duty of switching in. It then goes on the offensive, swinging momentum back where Charizard would have been unable to come in in the first place.

As juoean was saying on the discord, lead Charizards dropping Earthquake more means that on paper at least, Arcanine lead could be worth exploring considering its much stronger matchup into lead Mime.

I hope this was enough to convince you of Arcanine's place in the meta and its status as a legit NU mon!
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Why did you write this like a school paper LMAO

But yes Arc is definitely underrated, I’ve thought so since I used it last RBYPL and I think the conditions for it have only gotten better. A lot of PU mons are honestly viable here - Gastly, Drowzee, Fearow for a start, and I think these mons are really good at breaking the current big 5 meta.

I think anyone who’s taking NU seriously needs to look at the teams we ran on Articunos in this RBYPL - nicole and juoean built some ridiculous heat for our players that I genuinely think will shift the meta. I’m excited for the next NU tour because of this after being pretty burned out on the tier for a while.
 
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With Venusaur coming back to its home tier of NU and Aerodactyl and Victreebel being new additions, does anyone have any speculation as to how the metagame would be disrupted by these additions?

Also, Clefable, Electrode, Golem and Ninetales are effectively banned from the tier now. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
Gamer1234556 said:
With Venusaur coming back to its home tier of NU and Aerodactyl and Victreebel being new additions, does anyone have any speculation as to how the metagame would be disrupted by these additions?

Also, Clefable, Electrode, Golem and Ninetales are effectively banned from the tier now. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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the biggest/central change, at least on first impressions, is losing trode gaining aero. trode obv has been extremely centralizing with the best check to it often being itself as the other tbolt resists/immunes have a lot of issues, aero replaces it as the fastest mon but unlike trode it isnt too tough to switch into, aero's distinguishing features are more in its defensive typing, the one thing they have in common is that they both prevent charizard swords dance sweeps but otherwise all their interactions are (ofc) totally different.

clefable rising to uu means losing a bulky 'stability' piece but there are other solid bulky options in blastoise (which no longer has trode tbolt to fear, still poor mime mu ofc), as well as potentially porygon or wigglytuff, ofc blastoise doesnt have twave so that changes various interactions (in particular letting sleepers in), obviously losing clefable will change usage rates a lot and such but not necessarily a major 'structural' change for the tier since its roles largely can be filled effectively in other ways (outside of maybe sing clefable which idt anyone will be sad to see go lol)

with trode gone idk how relevant golem wouldve been anyway, but it does mean if u want a ground type to wall magneton youll prob have to go with nidoking. grasses seem to have wide ranging views from different players, personally i dont find them all that appealing compared to venomoth but swords dance is cool, & also resisting surf and checking magnets i guess. venu is slower than seadra instead of faster tho, while vic is outsped by the entire tier. razor leaf has a lot of resists between fearow + all the fires + venomoth + gastly, every team will likely have 2+ of these anyway.

and then various mons may see a more friendly or more hostile metagame, gastly kabutops fearow magneton are ones i would particularly keep an eye out for but obviously that is hard to tell ahead of time until we see how the tier develops and for example how much usage aerodactyl sees
 
Hello NU community,

The NU council (myself, MrSoup, nicole7735, and Serpi) has unanimously voted to unban Poliwrath, Poliwhirl, and Golduck for the ladder and spotlight. We came to the conclusion that the massive changes to the tier justify giving these Pokemon another shot for the present, though we will actively be keeping an eye on them.

We will put out a survey for feedback after the ladder and spotlight to gather community input; we will use this to help inform decisions regarding quickbans and suspect tests going forward before future tournaments. Have fun and may god have mercy on our souls!

Tagging dhelmise and Marty; here are the combined changes with the UU VR:
NU to UU: Clefable, Golem, Electrode, Ninetales
NUBL to UU: Raichu
UU to NU: Aerodactyl, Venusaur, Victreebel
NUBL to NU: Golduck, Poliwrath, Poliwhirl
 
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