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GuysAbokIsBalancedIThinkWeShouldRetestItTheMetaHasEvolvedInAWayThatDoesn'tSuitArbokIDon'tThinkAnyoneWouldActuallyUseItIfItWasUnbannedAlsoCanWeTestOnixAndPidgeotThoseGuysAreOPAndShouldBeSentToTheGulagImmedaitlyOrIWillBeExtremelySadAndItWouldNotBeVeryFun.
 

Sabelette

from the river to the sea
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
With the Arbok ban, I would like to collect sample teams. I am aware that the post-ban meta is speculative, but I still want to have some sort of samples to give to new players. Please DM me here or on Discord (same @) if you have samples to share, ideally ASAP.
 

Gangsta Spongebob

"Mama I'm a Criminal" - Badass Smoking Caterpillar
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Arbok was just banned (thank god) and I'd like to go over the big winners and losers of it leaving the tier.

The Losers:

:rb/pidgeot: :rb/ponyta: :rb/primeape:

Being faster than Arbok was a massive selling point in ZU. Teams needed multiple Pokemon that could outspeed Arbok, so Pokemon that were faster than it and otherwise decent gained a massive boost in viability. This doesn't mean they're unviable now, however, in most cases at least. Pidgeot is still probably the best Pokemon in the tier, and Pokemon like Primeape and Ponyta still have strong niches, but besides Pidgeot these Pokemon won't be as plug and play as they were before. The ability to stack more slower and bulkier Pokemon also hurts them.

:rb/abra:

To contrast the previous group we have Abra. Yeah there's just no reason to use Abra now. Abra's one niche was being able to outspeed Arbok and either KO it after the slightest amount of chip or paralyze it with Thuner Wave. Otherwise, Abra just doesn't have anything. Having no relevant weaknesses doesn't matter when you gets OHKOed by so much, including Pidgeot and Primeape's Hyper Beams, as well as Sandslash's Earthquake. Abra's Speed is genuinely great, but that isn't as important anymore and it critically falls behind the aforementioned Pidgeot and Primeape. Abra hits extremely hard with its STAB Psychic, but it rarely OHKOes anything. And Abra is complete dead weight if it gets paralyzed. We have a Pokemon with an assortment of great tools and stats, but they fall short of making up for its black hole of defensive utility. Will Abra stay terrible forever? I can't say for sure, given how new this meta is. But given that it was fringe when it was the best answer to a very overbearing threat, the future looks quite bleak for it.

:rb/onix: :rb/rhyhorn:

While their role in the tier was still being experimented with and optimized, the Rock-types were decent answers to Arbok's Wrap shenanigans, so it leaving hurts their niche somewhat. It's not the end of the world, as they were never that amazing answers to Arbok to begin with, not enjoying Earthquake and theoretically losing to Mega Drain, with them deriving most of their niche by walling Pidgeot, which is still very useful. However, their exact viability is hard to ascertain right now, but they'll likely retain a role in the metagame.

The Winners:

:rb/Flareon: :rb/Slowpoke:

In general, slower Pokemon massively benefit from Arbok's ban, with them no longer having to worry about being worn down by the snake.

:rb/sandslash: :rb/weezing: :rb/marowak:

In general, the physical walls of the metagame have an interesting dynamic with Arbok. They could very easily lose to Wrap, but generally Arbok didn't want to risk it unless it had to, making them decent checks until the late-game. I would say they benefit solely because it's now much more viable to stack multiple slower Pokemon, so their usage would probably go up.

At the moment it's really hard to guess how ZU will develop, as while it was hell to deal with, Arbok was very much the face of ZU across all its incarnations. However, I do have high hopes the metagame will be balanced, given that nothing seems overbearing now.
 
:rb/abra:

To contrast the previous group we have Abra. Yeah there's just no reason to use Abra now. Abra's one niche was being able to outspeed Arbok and either KO it after the slightest amount of chip or paralyze it with Thuner Wave. Otherwise, Abra just doesn't have anything. Having no relevant weaknesses doesn't matter when you gets OHKOed by so much, including Pidgeot and Primeape's Hyper Beams, as well as Sandslash's Earthquake. Abra's Speed is genuinely great, but that isn't as important anymore and it critically falls behind the aforementioned Pidgeot and Primeape. Abra hits extremely hard with its STAB Psychic, but it rarely OHKOes anything. And Abra is complete dead weight if it gets paralyzed. We have a Pokemon with an assortment of great tools and stats, but they fall short of making up for its black hole of defensive utility. Will Abra stay terrible forever? I can't say for sure, given how new this meta is. But given that it was fringe when it was the best answer to a very overbearing threat, the future looks quite bleak for it.
Abra cant lose when it has already lost. I assume most people agree with me when I say wed rather use pokemon like ponyta to deal with arbok. I cant even remember the last time i saw Abra and ive been playing zu almost every day for the past month. Its too frail. Its arbok niche is the only reason I even CONSIDERED it a POSSIBLE zu mon. Cant wait to see it in szu. A familiar mon in an unfamiliar place. This will be fun.
 

gastlies

dancing in the moonlight
is a Forum Moderator
IF YOU PLAN ON SUBMITTING A VR PLEASE READ THE POST IN ITS ENTIRETY! THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM NORMAL VR COLLECTION!

So now that ZU has concluded two tournaments it's time for some VR collection! The VR reqs are the exact same as that of the Arbok suspect test. However it is a little tricky to create a VR for this tier, since both these tournaments took place during an Arbok meta, and Arbok isn't exactly legal anymore. Because of this, we've decided to collect two different VRs:

1. "Arbok meta VR"

For this VR you just have to submit a regular ranking of ZU Pokemon, including Arbok. This VR is meant to be for archival purposes as the Arbok meta never had a real VR. Treat this VR like Arbok is still legal in the tier, so if you think a mon is good because of the Arbok matchup, take that into account.

2. "Speculative VR"
For this VR, instead of submitting an ordered list, group the mons into three unordered categories, "High", "Mid", and "Low". This VR is meant to be the preliminary VR for the post-Arbok meta, so do not rank Arbok. This VR is based on your speculation of how good a mon will be in a post-arbok meta.

You don't have to submit both VRs if you don't want to. You can submit both, just one, or neither. You can submit it either by posting here or DMing me on discord. Since this process is somewhat confusing, if you have any questions about the process feel free to ask me on discord. I'm also gonna submit my own VRs right below this post so you can look at mine as an example if you're confused.

You'll have about a week and a half to submit, submissions close on Sunday, April 14, 9:00PM -4

 
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gastlies

dancing in the moonlight
is a Forum Moderator
ZU's first real VR is here!
First I would like to thank all the submitters (Ice Yazu Sabelette gastlies NotVeryCake sinnabyss torkonpeter Medeia BeatsBlack Murm acluh1 Gangsta Spongebob YBW Toxin boost Maris Bonibell) for making this update possible! And special thanks for Wanted in 49 States for compiling all the data!

You can consult the raw data HERE

As discussed in this post, there were two different VRs, so I will be discussing each VR seperately, starting with the...

:rb/arbok: ARBOK VR :y/arbok:

Methodology:
  • Every player who gained reqs submitted their own viability rankings. Each ranking has equal weight
  • Any Pokemon with under 3 votes was omitted from the final rankings
The VR looks something like this:
S: :Pidgeot:
A1: :Arbok::Sandslash::Primeape::Flareon:
A2: :Parasect::Marowak:
A3: :Tentacool::Ponyta::Weezing:
B1: :Onix::Butterfree::Poliwag::Wartortle::Abra:
B2: :Rhyhorn::Slowpoke:
C: :Muk::Lickitung::Golbat::Hitmonlee::Magneton::Weepinbell:
D: :Charmeleon::Kabuto::Machoke::Dratini:
E: :Diglett::Pikachu::Voltorb::Meowth:

Bok VR.png

Untitled.png
Untitled-1.png

Untitled-1-1.png
Untitled-2.png
Untitled-1-2.png

Untitled-3.png

Since Arbok isn't legal anymore, this VR is just for archival/historical purposes, which brings us to the...

:rb/pidgeot: SPECULATIVE VR :y/pidgeot:

Methodology:
  • Every player who gained reqs divided the Pokemon into tiers called "high", "mid", and "low". In order to determine the final tier I did the following:
    • Ranked "high" as 1, "mid" as 2, "low" as 3. Any unranked mon was given a 3 by default (shown by the gray background).
    • Took the average ranking, and determined the final tier by the average:
      • An average of 1.5 or lower gave a final ranking of "high"
      • An average between 1.5 and 2.5 gave a final ranking of "mid"
      • An average 2.5 or higher gave a final ranking of "low"
  • Any Pokemon with under 3 votes was omitted from the final rankings
With that, we get the following viability list:
High: :pidgeot::sandslash::flareon::primeape::parasect::tentacool:
Mid: :weezing::marowak::butterfree::onix::ponyta::slowpoke::wartortle::poliwag:
Low: :lickitung::rhyhorn::muk::charmeleon::hitmonlee::abra::golbat::magneton::weepinbell:

Speculative VR.png

So that concludes the first ZU VR update!

So since SZU isn't an actual tier we didn't make a cutoff for it. It's really up to you to decide which mons are legal or not. You can go by either VR. If you go by the Arbok one, I'd suggest a cutoff of Slowpoke/Muk, with slowpoke ZU and Muk SZU. If you go by the speculative one, I'd suggest that the "low" ranked mons are legal in SZU, while "high" and "mid" are not. You'll get the same result either way for the most part, with the only differences being that Abra and Rhyhorn will be legal in SZU if you go by the speculative one.

Edit: The SZU Community has decided to use the Arbok VR, meaning anything Muk or lower on the Arbok VR is SZU. Importantly, since it's not using the speculative VR, Abra and Rhyhorn are not legal in SZU.
 
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