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Tournaments RBYOMPL Format Discussion

Volk

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Howdy! I've been kicking this idea around for a while, and I finally think it might be a feasible reality. Introducing RBYOMPL! RBYOMPL is a team tournament designed to celebrate RBY's wide array of niche tiers. I'm making this thread to gauge interest in such a tournament. If it looks popular and possible, I want to figure out the optimal tiers and number of teams. Let's discuss!

Prospective Tiers
My goal for this tournament is 6 teams × 6 tiers. Here are my top contenders for the six slots. I'd love to see what folks think would make the best six here.

RBY 1v1
Overview: RBY 1v1 is a fairly popular metagame with a dedicated community and a low barrier to entry. The most recent major tournament, RBY 1v1 Cup, had over 25 signups. I think it would easily fill six slots without taking too many players from other tiers. Its inclusion would be a good way to better integrate the RBY and 1v1 Communities. It also arguably has the most robust resources of any RBY OM, even when compared to some of the LTs.
Format: Best-of-seven is best suited for the fast pace and volatile nature of the tier. Best-of-five could be possible though if seven is too many games.

Nintendo Cup 1997
Overview: NC97 has seen an increase in popularity lately on Smogon and a handful of players from the dedicated NC97 Community have recently even joined Smogon to play it here. I think this presents a great opportunity to expand the tier and merge the two communities. The most recent major tournament, Nintendo Cup 1997 Revival, had over 60 signups, though it was a money tour. I don't anticipate NC97 taking too many players from other slots. The tier has also proved rather competitive, despite what many believe.
Format: The Revival tournament established an acceptable standard of best-of-three with team preview, no changing teams between games, and cartridge Sleep Clause.

RBY STABmons OU
Overview: STABmons is my perfect child. The tier has a small but relatively passionate following largely composed of "core Smogon tour players." It is reasonably competitive, especially compared to most RBY OMs. The most recent major tournament, Saber II, had 18 signups. It may compete with some tiers for players, but I'd really like to see this tier hit a big stage like this and I anticipate a high level of play and metagame development.
Format: Best-of-three is standard. Best-of-five is possible, but the sheer number of ties STABmons games result in may make it a somewhat unreasonable commitment.

RBY ZU
Overview: ZU isn't much of an "OM," but it is probably the biggest RBY tier without representation in either of the two major annual RBY team tours: RBYPL and ALTPL. Its inclusion seems like a very obvious choice to tap into a large base of players that specialize in either RBY or ZU. I honestly think this tier is necessary to get us to reach the player count requirement. Otherwise, it's a reasonably competitive and popular tier in its own right.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest.

RBY SU
Overview: SU is pretty similar to ZU, pulling from both the RBY and SU Communities. I honestly don't know too much about the tier from a competitive standpoint, but I think it would hit the entry requirement fairly comfortably without pulling too many players from other tiers.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest.

Stadium OU
Overview: Stadium is, in my opinion, probably the most competitive tier on this list and yet it gets very little attention. I do think there is a market for a small but dedicated set of players to get into this tier in a team setting. I think this tier would draw those "core Smogon tour players" and could see a very high level of play. With this tier being nearly completely unrepresented in the Smogon tour scene, I think this is a great opportunity to get it some of the activity that it deserves.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest.

RBY Little Cup
Overview: LC doesn't have a particularly large or dedicated base of players to my knowledge, but I believe the tier has some passing interest and a relatively low barrier of entry. I don't know if LC would necessarily draw too many people to sign up, but I could see it attracting a few players while still being approachable to new players. The most recent major tournament, Dratini Age: Origins, had over 90 signups, though it was a money tour.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest, especially given the typical game length and ease of teambuilding.

Modern Generation I
Overview: MG1 is more of a Pet Mod than an OM, but I think it somewhat fits the spirit of the tour, given it's rooted in RBY mechanics. The tier has a decently large community consisting of players largely separated from the RBY Community, meaning it should fill six slots pretty easily and have little conflict with other tiers. In fact, it did so last year in SOLOPL.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest.

RBY 7U
Overview: Going to be honest, I think interest in 7U has completely waned, but I threw it on here in case I'm wrong. If you want 7U in this tour, make your presence known.
Format: Best-of-three is standard, though best-of-five is possible if there's interest.

Some Other Tier
Let me know if I forgot something that you care about.

Logistics

As noted above, my goal here is 6 teams × 6 tiers. The regular season would be five weeks, followed by the top three or four teams advancing to a two-week playoffs. However, if turnout is low, we can do 4 teams × 6 tiers. This would likely see each team play every other team twice, followed by the top two teams advancing to a one-week playoff match.

If you are interested in managing or hosting this tournament, play note that here or message me. I would really like to gauge if we have enough of those to support this tournament.

If this tour seems feasible, I plan to release manager signups next week, then player signups for the two weeks after that, and finally start around March 31st.

Cheers!
 
As ZUTL, RBY ZU would be a great edition to this team tour. ZU Olympiad II and III has shown RBY ZU to be a very competitive slot full of interesting games and very strong players. It would without a doubt add a lot to this tournament.

As a member of the RBY SU Council, I would love to see this tier to have a place to shine in a team tour setting. There was a big showing for the first RBY SU Open and there are plans for another Smogon tournament coming later this year. The communities on both the RBY and SU side have been at working together to make this tier great.

Both of these should be easy adds for the sheer numbers and support they bring from all the communities involved!
 
Dont know the logistics of any other team tours happening that would make this a conflict but I'm vouching for Stabmons and 1v1 as they are pretty fun formats if this ends up going through. I personally dont enjoy RBY LC at all, it's definitely the most janky format of the bunch and would end up being a gulag slot. Maybe there is an appeal that literally anyone can play it though.
 
Im here to put my thoughts on all of these formats in one or 2 sentences.and propose a lineup:

Proposed tiers
RBY 1v1. Pretty fun format, and whenever there is a tour people play it. Should be in it even though its a UM.

Nintendo Cup 1997. Another fun format, there is a whole subcommunity for it so i bet there to be atleast some turn out. Should be in even though its a Nintendo Format.

RBY STABMons. THE RBY OM. Im not a fan of it, but you cant really have RBY OMs without it. Should be in.

RBY ZU. This is the best low tier in my opinion, and with what the rest of this list is looking like, should be in despite being a UM.

RBY SU. Now, this, with LC, ZU, and 7U in here, there is way to much overlap in playerbases. If you include this it means excluding the other 2. Will get back to this.

Stadium OU. One of the genuinely worst tiers i have ever played. It doesnt even feel like RBY. While im obsessed with alternate versions of ou to shake things up, this is not it. No one is interested in it either. Should not be in.

RBY LC. One of the other worst tiers i have ever played. It feels awful, exeggcute and diglett are too dominant for my likings, and the overlap with ZU SU and 7U isnt wanted. SHOULD NOT BE IN.

MG1. With the tour starting in march, the current state of the tier is what will be used. While i do think, under any other circumstance, mg1 should make it in, not this time chief.

RBY 7U. Too much overlap with SU and ZU. SU has a more alive playerbase and i dont think anyone would want to play 7u even if it made it in.

Other Tiers
RBY 10U (RBY LOL) has a LOWWW barrier of entry, sure it overlaps with SU and ZU, however i can give you a team right now and even little timmy can play at the top level. Here: https://pokepast.es/b07daf5c53d8b1ed. Also, this has the haha factor no other tier an give.

RBY Tradebacks OU. A way better alternate OU than stad, its way closer to normal rby and its actually fun. However it has one of the same problems of little to no interest.

Japanese OU. No one plays it, but it would be fun. And isnt that what counts? No one would play it tho so :/

Proposed 6 Tier format
RBY STABMons
RBY 1v1
NC97
RBY ZU
RBY SU
RBY 10U.

Proposed 4 Tier format (If applicable)
RBY STABMons
RBY 1v1
NC97
RBY ZU
 
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I was very hesitant to include Tradebacks OU for a few reasons. For one, it's very similar to vanilla OU, so I feel like its inclusion would kind of defeat the purpose of celebrating side formats, OMs, and UMs. For two, Tradebacks seems to have decent representation right now, with it notably breaking into ALTPL III. I also wasn't really sure how popular it was, as the signups pool ended up looking pretty small, especially because it was competing with similar tiers others may have preferred. That all being said, if there seems to be support behind Tradebacks, I'd be very happy to include it, as it's certainly still a side format and hitting the required player count is ultimately the biggest goal.


Also, just a general remark, but don't get hung up on what is or isn't really an "OM." STABmons is the only tier here that can really be considered an OM. The point is to spotlight niche tiers with limited representation, especially in team tournaments. Pretty much any format that (1) isn't in RBYPL, (2) is related to RBY and its mechanics, and (3) has at least a few players is eligible.

And another remark, while the goal is to make a fun tournament, I would still like to make it reasonably competitive as to inspire much-needed metagame development. I know some people are happy to endlessly litigate if RBY side formats are truly competitive, but regardless of your thoughts on that, I'm sure we can all agree some are more competitive than others, whether by the nature of the tiers, content of the base of players, or both. So just keep in mind which tiers you think are most capable and deserving of development when you make suggestions.


In case you're curious, my preferred lineup right now looks like this:
1v1
NC97
STABmons
Stadium
SU
ZU
SU is probably the lowest on my priority list, with Tradebacks (or maybe MG1?) likely being next in line. We could maybe include more if we were to jump to eight slots, but I won't hold my breath on that. I'll likely sign up to play all tiers, with privilege being given to STABmons, 1v1, and Stadium.
 
Also, just a general remark, but don't get hung up on what is or isn't really an "OM."
Hi, washed up guy here. I’m not getting hung up on what is an OM, but I am getting hung up on what is a PL. For a 6x6 PL, I’m sure you’ll find 36 players to play every week. But then you take into account managers and you’re up to 48 (assuming no self-buys). Add only two subs per team and you’re reaching 60 players. Are there really that many players that will sign up? Maybe there are, but are there that many players that will sign up that are good enough to play quality games (or support/team build) and maybe drive some meta development for some of these tiers? I’m not so sure.

I’m certainly not in charge anymore so I have no real say on this and I hate to yuck people’s yum, but at the end of the day my opinion is that I don’t think everything needs a Premier League. Most of these metas I think are better off with one-off side tours, perhaps with a cash prize since that seems to be popular having recently scrolled through the forum a bit. These communities are small and niche and I get wanting to grow them but I don’t think a Premier League is feasible to be honest. Or at the very least… I think 60 people between players/managers is the absolute bare minimum with the proposed format. I doubt that there’s 120 signups (just a guess considering there were slightly less than 200 signups for the last RBYPL). When you take over half the people, at that point is it really a Premier League? :smogthink:
 
my thoughs thanks for the format soda
RBY 1v1.
Nintendo Cup 1997.
RBY STABMons.
RBY ZU
all of those tiers are fun and skillfull while have an higly skilled subcommunity without much overlap between each other almost no reason not to run those formats stabmon even is the only real om so ompl without an om would be funny but yea i think if this tour has any chance of being real it needs those 4
Modern Generation I
this tier would alow us to have another seperate community outside of rby to increes the player base but its an pet mod but i think its most likly the 5th best option

RBY Little Cup and RBY SU
both feel like they most likly should fight over the last slot both tiers intersect with the zu player base but i feel like there are enough general lower tier players that like lc that it shouldnt be to much of an problem for it and su could also use some lower tier players and some people of the small su community i dont know which one would be better both seem ok

and last but not least my favorit rby tier rby 10u
i hosted an small discord tour for this tier last year and even though it seems like an very stupid format its actually very fun and more competetive then one would think if it is in the tour i think it should either be an bo3 in tradbacks 10u as from my playing i found tradbacks to be the most funn and balanced version or an bo3 with round 1 being standart round 2 being tradbacks and round 3 having move restrictions unlocked example teams for the 3 10u formats https://pokepast.es/efce0da932f677aa https://pokepast.es/29c04190c33fb926 https://pokepast.es/57a53ff2981776f5
Proposed 6 Tier format
RBY STABMons
RBY 1v1
NC97
RBY ZU
Modern Generation I
RBY 10U/SU

Proposed 4 Tier format (If applicable)
RBY STABMons
RBY 1v1
NC97
RBY ZU
 
Having played all of these formats with many hours, my only thoughts are that, if we do have lc that lc level 100s plays more competitively and more interesting than A LOT of the other options. It is fast paced yet dynamic. I would prefer it over STABmons, Modern Gen1 and even over ZU to be completely honest (and Zu is something pretty close to heart).

You definitely missed all of the stadium formats

Which are more official than the “Stadium Ou” tier
- Pika, Poke, Prime, Nc98, Nc99.

Poke and Pika (Pika in particular) are extremely fun and competitive formats (considering we have a double team or ohko ban placed here)

My 4 Tier list

Nc97
ZU
LC 100
Stadium Pika / 1v1 / Stadium Poke / Su
 
Imo ZU/Stadium are the only ones that should 100% be in. STAB and SU I also think should most likely be in.

NC97 and LC I’m a little less thrilled about but wouldn’t mind if they were included, and I don’t know enough about 1v1 or MG1 to have an informed opinion.

I agree with Volk that Tradebacks OU should not be included in this tour. Stadium deviates from cartridge OU much more than Tradebacks and I don’t think we have the playerbase for both (I will go into more detail about this later).

10U/NoU should not be included I don’t think I need to explain why

Hi, washed up guy here. I’m not getting hung up on what is an OM, but I am getting hung up on what is a PL. For a 6x6 PL, I’m sure you’ll find 36 players to play every week. But then you take into account managers and you’re up to 48 (assuming no self-buys). Add only two subs per team and you’re reaching 60 players. Are there really that many players that will sign up? Maybe there are, but are there that many players that will sign up that are good enough to play quality games (or support/team build) and maybe drive some meta development for some of these tiers? I’m not so sure.

I’m certainly not in charge anymore so I have no real say on this and I hate to yuck people’s yum, but at the end of the day my opinion is that I don’t think everything needs a Premier League. Most of these metas I think are better off with one-off side tours, perhaps with a cash prize since that seems to be popular having recently scrolled through the forum a bit. These communities are small and niche and I get wanting to grow them but I don’t think a Premier League is feasible to be honest. Or at the very least… I think 60 people between players/managers is the absolute bare minimum with the proposed format. I doubt that there’s 120 signups (just a guess considering there were slightly less than 200 signups for the last RBYPL). When you take over half the people, at that point is it really a Premier League? :smogthink:

I don’t think we will have a playerbase issue since a lot of the OMs have their own sub-communities. For example SU can easily find 6 players from the SU community, 1v1 has its own thing, and if MG1 is included they have their own community as well. This means there won’t be much overlap, EXCEPT for Zu/Stadium/Tradebacks. Stealing Volk’s wording, this is probably where the “core smogon tour players” will end up, If we include two of these tiers, we need 12 people, but if we include all three, then we need 18. This is my other anti-tradebacks argument I hinted at earlier. If we have just ZU and Stadium taking the RBY tour ppl, then 4 other tiers getting 6 players from their respective communities, I don’t think we will have an issue with signups.

Edit: Forgot to mention 7U. Since I forgot it you can probably guess i’m not interested LOL. It’s somewhat similar to SU and I think SU is a superior tier so gonna say no for this too

tl;dr
Yes: Stadium, ZU
Most Likely: STAB, SU
Neutral: 1v1, NC97, LC, MG1
No: Tradebacks, 10U, 7U
 
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Here are my thoughts on the format.

Tiers That Absolutely Should Be Picked
Stadium, Stabmons
These two, in my opinion, are the best options because they both embody the OM spirit, are really competitive, and need the spotlight more than most.

Stadium:
A tier that is unfortunately often clowned by those who do not play it, it's actually a really fun and competitive tier and is very unrepresented compared to other OMs/LTs and could really use the spotlight in this tournament. I really love this tier and it's actually my favorite tier of all time, and it would be really cool to play it more than once a year.

Stabmons:
This one is an easy lock on all fronts, it's actually an OM so pretty suited for OMPL and it probably won't have player count issues considering the solid amount of signups saber gets with no outside incentive. This tier is also just really fun and surprisingly competitive, if stadium doesn't get chosen this is my choice for preferred tier.

Tiers I Would Like To See
NC97, ZU

NC97:
This is a pretty cool tier that won't have trouble pulling signups due to the ease of learning, and the decently sized community.

ZU:
Another tier that won't have issues pulling signups. Of the tiers so far, this one deserves the spotlight the least because it actually sees a decent amount of play, but I do think it's worth throwing in here because there is a community behind it, and it's also pretty fun.

Tiers I'm Indifferent Towards
LC, Stadium cups, 1v1, SU, 7U, MG1
Outside of LC I do not have any experience with any of these tiers and really do not care if they get picked. I wouldn't be offended either, it's just that I don't play these tiers.

Tiers I Do Not Think Should Be Picked
10U, Tradebacks

10U:
10U is a goofy meme tier, there isn't room for development, a community, nothing like that. Let's just leave it out of this.

Tradebacks:
This tier just got into ALTPL, so it doesn't really need the spotlight right now. Also hot take but this tier is just OU but snorlax gets Lovely kiss. That is to say I do not like this tier, and did not enjoy playing it in ALTPL. It's cool if you like this tier I simply do not.

Here's what format I'd like to see.
1v1
LC
NC97
Stabmons
Stadium
ZU

Overall, I don't care too much outside of Stadium, but I still thought I'd share my list.
 
Challenge Cup. Don't have much of an argument for it, other than that you probably can easily fill the slots, get some interesting games and that I personally would enjoy playing it.

Obviously there isn't much in the way of development and it's a bit wacky, but if we're talking about 10U getting in, that can't be a problem.
 
As an SU main and member of the RBY SU council, I want to throw in my support for the tier's inclusion in this team tour. Like Sleid mentioned already, our tier had great support during our first forum tour last year, and although much of our player-base in that tour did overlap with ZU, we indeed have a dedicated and passionate community that continues to engage with the tier on a regular basis, so I am confident that we would have enough players to fill out a spot in a team tour. And, although I'm admittedly biased, this tier is incredibly fun with a unique feel that would make it a fresh addition that I'm certain many will enjoy engaging with!

While I mainly wanted to highlight my support for SU, I have also played ZU and LC and would be happy to see either featured in this team tour as well!
 
1v1 is seemingly already pretty set in stone here, but I want to put forth it being a best of seven slot instead of the standard 1v1 best of five. RBY 1v1 is inherently not a super prep based tier, and 1v1 tournament players can already handle making seven teams in other generations so I believe it would be manageable here. Also admittedly RBY 1v1 can be fairly luck based, so Bo7 will hopefully make it more competitive. From what I've seen there hasn't been much pushback to Bo7 from the people I've discussed it with but I figured I would mention it here anyways. As for the other slots uhh idk.
 
Big 7U player from when it was active here.

The tier got by and large solved. Confuse Ray ban may change some stuff, but the usual cores of Meowth/Golbat/Charmeleon +3 aren't going anywhere, and essentially every mon has been tested extensively. It's just not a tier that can go many more places, and the big reason why it died. It's all execution now, and the games don't vary much from eachother now.

A tier I really like are the Stadium Rental tiers, but other than me, Enigami and like 2 other people I doubt anyone cares.

The way I see it:
STABMons, ZU 1v1, SU, MG1, ??? would be a strong roster, in order from most solid to least solid. Unsure what the 6th would be; LC kinda sucks in RBY, Stadium/TBs is too OU-like, 7U I outlined the issues. Maybe NC97 is the key, or a slot that changes every edition between one of these smaller metas. Dunno.

But yeah, my overall relevant thought is 7U cannot really hold such a high level event like this imo. Maybe it could happen once, but I don't see it being a mainstay of RBYOMPL. It's too solved.
 
Would just like to add that typically LC attracts its own playerbase to sign up to these kinds of tours, but RBY LC has very little popularity within the LC community itself. Entirely agree with AM that it would most likely end up as a gulag slot without a defined playerbase
 
Murm’s post reminded me of something. The OP mentions bo3 is standard for ZU/SU while they can be bo5 if there’s enough interest. I propose doing what RBYPL did for its lowtiers: make ZU/SU default bo5 but a set can be gentlemaned to a bo3 if both players agree (afaik in practice this never happened in rbypl but still worth having the option). ZU and SU generally have quick games (and pt is banned from both!) so it’s still not a huge time commitment. I feel like the bo5 lowtiers in RBYPL were really successful and think it should continue here.
 
Adding a +1 to 1v1 being bo7. Indeed it can feel pretty luck-based, which is mitigated by a bo7.

:dwebble:
 
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