Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

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Codraroll

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Shuckle Evolution: 80/5/300/5/300/5
I won't say this is a terrible idea (although I think it is), but I'd like to point out that the way the game handles data, base stats can't go higher than 255. Any stats above that would require an entirely new data structure (and be broken to hell and back anyway).

-Older pokemon that are still trash need edits to abilities, movepools, or new evolutions so they can become viable.
Lets be honest, some pokemon are just outclassed in every single way and have no uniqueness thanks to newer pokemon. Pinsir evolution would be nice so that he can stop crying about the Scyther evolution.
This has happened in pretty much every generation to date. Almost all Pokémon have gotten bigger movepools or better abilities, and some have even got an evolution. Though, as almost every Pokémon gets this treatment, the Pokémon you'd normally compare it to also gets new toys. A B2W2 Beedrill brought back to the G/S era would totally dominate OU by virtue of stuff like Toxic Spikes and Brick Break (making it the only 'mon in the game with the ability to remove screens). It has got so many boosts and new moves over the generations that it would overshadow most Pokémon from ten years ago. However, Beedrill is still Beedrill, because it hasn't got any more boosts than the other Pokémon in the game. And seeing as usage doesn't come from being good, but from being among the best, regardless of the general power level of the maetagame, there have to be some Pokémon at the bottom of the barrel. You can't make everything good without simultaneously making everything bad. It's the contrast to the OU 'mons that make the NU mons terrible, and vice versa. Those contrasts are what defines a metagame like ours.
 
I would like to see Keldeo get Nasty Plot


Up there^ would be my reaction if Keldeo did indeed get Nasty Plot. Its interesting that you want a couple (or more) pokemon to get Nasty Plot since now that I think about it, NP is pretty under-distributed compared to its physical counterpart.

An odd choice of a pokemon I wanna see get Nasty Plot would be Accelgor.
 

Dark Fallen Angel

FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
Who, besites me, wants a Water/Fire Pokémon?

It could have a decent HP with good bulk, a good Special Attack, and an excellent speed. With Water Absorb, this Pokémon would be able to wall both sun and rain teams by being 4x resistant to Fire and immune to Water. With Air Lock and a good speed, it could be an excellent revenge killer of weather sweepers. It would also be the only Water-type that wouldn't fear Ferrothorn at all, as it would OHKO it with a Fire-type attack. If this Pokémon were to exist, I hope that it got Thunderbolt as a coverage move to cover bulky Water-types that would resist both of its STABs.

Water/Fire is an excellent typing, both offensively and defensively. It brings three 4x resistances: to Fire, Steel, and Ice! as well as a resistance to Bug. It would be weak to Stealth Rock, unfortunately, but this is nothing that Rapid Spin support can't solve. It is, unlike other bulky Water-types, neutral to Grass-type attacks. Being part Fire-type would probably mean that it would not get an Ice-type attack like Ice Beam. This is not that bad, as this Pokémon could still cover Grass-types with its Fire-type STAB; but it will have a harder time against Dragon-types, having to resort to Hidden Power Ice to overcome them. However, this is a fair price to pay for the fantastic typing.

Also, the above user should reserve that reaction for the moment that Celebi would get Quiver Dance. CELEBI NEEDS THIS MOVE ON ITS MOVESET! It would sweep better than the Nasty Plot set. I could see QD Celebi being the standard set. The problem is that Celebi will have a harder time OHKOing Dragon-types without Hidden Power Ice, especially Dragonite, as Quiver Dance does not double the power like Nasty Plot does. However, being able to boost its Special Defense and Speed at same time is a fair price to pay for this.
 
Ludicolo got Ice Beam, so I'm pretty sure a Fire/Water would too.

But weak to Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Stealth Rock, might be a bit of a problem.
 
An odd choice of a pokemon I wanna see get Nasty Plot would be Accelgor.
Oh, I want me somma that. Accelgor's always been really cool, but it hasn't had enough power to be really viable as an attacker. With NP, though... could be worthwhile.

Also, I am seeing waaay too many outright OP wishlists. For example, that Shuckle evo with 80/300/300 defenses. I did some calcs with 80/255/255, instead, and got this stupidity (in sand, for maximum bulk).

BandTar Stone Edge - 72.42 - 85.71% (super effective)
CB Darmanitan Flare Blitz - 58.13 - 68.77%
Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump - 55.81 - 66.44% (super effective)

and just because...
Specs Palkia Hydro Pump - 62.45 - 74.41% (super effective)
That right there is just flat out stupid. Just... no.
 
Oh, I want me somma that. Accelgor's always been really cool, but it hasn't had enough power to be really viable as an attacker. With NP, though... could be worthwhile.

Also, I am seeing waaay too many outright OP wishlists. For example, that Shuckle evo with 80/300/300 defenses. I did some calcs with 80/255/255, instead, and got this stupidity (in sand, for maximum bulk).

BandTar Stone Edge - 72.42 - 85.71% (super effective)
CB Darmanitan Flare Blitz - 58.13 - 68.77%
Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump - 55.81 - 66.44% (super effective)

and just because...
Specs Palkia Hydro Pump - 62.45 - 74.41% (super effective)
That right there is just flat out stupid. Just... no.
Well, that Flare Blitz would actually do half that, because Shuckle is Bug/Rock, which is neutral to Fire. But if you're going to do a "just because" calc, might as well do Kyogre's Water Spout, which might have a chance to OHKO, even before Rocks.
 
That Shuckle evo was way too unrealistic; it had a base stat total of like 695 lol. BlackLight, just do the calcs for Eviolite Shuckle and see what crazy ass damage (or lack there of) it takes.

EDIT: What about a pokemon with Tail Glow? Its never seen since its distribution is awful, but what would be deserving of it?
 

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That Shuckle evo was way too unrealistic; it had a base stat total of like 695 lol. BlackLight, just do the calcs for Eviolite Shuckle and see what crazy ass damage (or lack there of) it takes.

EDIT: What about a pokemon with Tail Glow? Its never seen since its distribution is awful, but what would be deserving of it?


I mean come on Gamefreak. Seriously?
 
Nope, Tail Glow's Japanese name is Firefly Light.

I believe Manaphy's species is biologically related to fireflies or bioluminescence or something. Ampharos is not. It makes perfect sense in the original; the translators goofed up in 2003 and now they can't really fix it.
 
What if Seed Bomb had a 10 or 20% chance to inflict Seeds on the opponent... I mean it would KINDA make sense, no?

The value of seeds even if random can certainly make one use it in place of Leaf Blade, or on Sheer Forcers.
 
Well, that Flare Blitz would actually do half that, because Shuckle is Bug/Rock, which is neutral to Fire. But if you're going to do a "just because" calc, might as well do Kyogre's Water Spout, which might have a chance to OHKO, even before Rocks.
Yeah, that's actually a neutral Flare Blitz, which is why it didn't say Super effective next to it. (Its Darmanitan, though, CB Sheer Force STAB 140 base power attack off of base 140ish attack stat is also fairly stupid). Also, I would have to calc the Water Spout in rain, too, which is kind of the most powerful attack ever, so that would OHKO.
You did remind me, though. I forgot to give it any EVs.

Choice Specs Palkia Hydro Pump against 252/252 Shuckle evo (in sand) - 46.7 - 56.04%

Yeah, that's not even a guaranteed 2HKO. I have nothing else to say about this.

GVon, here ya go, Eviolite Shuckle

Choice Specs Palkia Hydro Pump against 252/252 Eviolite Shuckle (in sand) - 50 - 59.83%

2HKO. That's slightly more reasonable, given that Shuckle now has no form of recovery whatsoever, and of course it still is SR weak, which is always a factor. Still, I do not like that calc at all.
 
Nope, Tail Glow's Japanese name is Firefly Light.

I believe Manaphy's species is biologically related to fireflies or bioluminescence or something. Ampharos is not. It makes perfect sense in the original; the translators goofed up in 2003 and now they can't really fix it.
manaphy is based off of a popular sea slug species in japan, which isn't even in the same phylum as fireflies

if a sea slugs can can have "firefly dance", I don't see why a lightning sheep can have it as well

(and it getting Tail Glow would be pretty moot in the first place, since Ampharos wouldn't be able to set up Tail Glows with it's abysmal Speed)
 
manaphy is based off of a popular sea slug species in japan, which isn't even in the same phylum as fireflies

if a sea slugs can can have "firefly dance", I don't see why a lightning sheep can have it as well

(and it getting Tail Glow would be pretty moot in the first place, since Ampharos wouldn't be able to set up Tail Glows with it's abysmal Speed)
I want to bold that last part because of this possible set since it does learn Agility.

Ampharos@Leftovers/Life Orb/whatever
Timid
EV's: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
Ability: Static
-Agility
-Tail Glow
-Thunder(bolt)
-HP Ice

Respectable 90/75/90 defenses mean it can probably take a hit depending on the situation and with an above average Base 115 Special Attack, a Timid Ampharos reaches a speed of 458 and a special attack of 822 fully set up. Something that we would need Ampharos to take would be something like this:

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 247-292 (76.7 - 90.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's an ideal powerful hit that I feel like would be a selling point that this set is viable. Plus, Static is a worrisome thing for physical attackers trying to take advantage of the Light pokemon's weaker defense. This is pretty much a slightly less bulky, yet possibly faster version of Raikou. Pretty much, if Amphy got Tail Glow, it would have a dangerous double dance set.
 
Things Gamefreak should give


Fire/{insert type here} with Chlorophyll

Forretress evolution with lower defense but higher sp.def (80/125/135)

Defensive Ground/Steel/ and Ghost/Steel with Levitate

Zapdos with Hurricane and Calm Mind

Moxie on more pokemon, Sheer Force on more pokemon

An Item that boosts NFE pokemon offenses by 1.5 (opposite of Eviolite)

Technician Electric fighting with access to ice moves (like Ice Shard ice punch), Mach Punch and electric priority

Offensive Grass with Drought and acesss to Superpower/Close Combat

MORE DRAGON/FIRE


Edits:

4x Stealth Rock weak pokemon with Magic Guard
Download abusers not named Poryfamily or Genesect

Ability that negates priority (complete stop to Prankster)

Good users of Cloud Nine

More MoldBreaker/Teravolt/Turboblaze abusers
Better distribution of these moves

Volt Switch
Nasty Plot
Quiver Dance
Aura Sphere (please on Gengar and Alakazam)
Spikes
Sucker Punch (on Tyranitar lol)
Vacuum Wave

MOAR DRagon fire with these stat spread
75/100/85/135/90/105

101/70/120/100/85/77

Does anyone else want a fire chlorophyll sweeper(s)?

Or more SandRushers?

And a grass type with drought?

Or electric figthing
Stats: 70/125/70/115/90/100

Tornadus with Thunderbolt/Thunder

or Ground/Fighting
 
Yo, crazy folks talking about offensive Eviolite. Want to know why that's a horrific idea?

Fucking Krabby.

Sure, he's slow, but slap him on a trick room team. Maybe pass him a few speed boosts from Ninjask. Offensive Eviolite Adamant Sheer Force Krabby's Crabhammer would kill easily Groudon twice in the rain. That's right, it doesn't even need to be super effective.

A more direct comparison: Crabhammer deals up to 170.5% damage to max defense Shuckle. Scarf Kyogre's max health Water Spout deals only 167.21% to a max SpD set. Specs Kyogre deals up to 200% with Hydro Pump.

That would be the most powerful physical move in the game.
 
Yo, crazy folks talking about offensive Eviolite. Want to know why that's a horrific idea?

Fucking Krabby.

Sure, he's slow, but slap him on a trick room team. Maybe pass him a few speed boosts from Ninjask. Offensive Eviolite Adamant Sheer Force Krabby's Crabhammer would kill easily Groudon twice in the rain. That's right, it doesn't even need to be super effective.

A more direct comparison: Crabhammer deals up to 170.5% damage to max defense Shuckle. Scarf Kyogre's max health Water Spout deals only 167.21% to a max SpD set. Specs Kyogre deals up to 200% with Hydro Pump.

That would be the most powerful physical move in the game.
Not to mention Kadabra and Scyther, with 105 Base Speed and 120/110 base SpA/Atk, reaching 558 SpA/525 Atk respectively. And Scyther gets Swords Dance and Quick Attack. Oh, and don't forget Rhydon has base 130 Atk, reaching 591 Atk with 252+.
 

Halcyon.

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Yo, crazy folks talking about offensive Eviolite. Want to know why that's a horrific idea?

Fucking Krabby.

Sure, he's slow, but slap him on a trick room team. Maybe pass him a few speed boosts from Ninjask. Offensive Eviolite Adamant Sheer Force Krabby's Crabhammer would kill easily Groudon twice in the rain. That's right, it doesn't even need to be super effective.

A more direct comparison: Crabhammer deals up to 170.5% damage to max defense Shuckle. Scarf Kyogre's max health Water Spout deals only 167.21% to a max SpD set. Specs Kyogre deals up to 200% with Hydro Pump.

That would be the most powerful physical move in the game.
Want to know what's even scarier than Krabby FUCKING KADABRA.

Base 120 SAtk and 105 Spe?! And you want to give it a free Specs boost? Not only that, but it has Magic Guard, which means that it doesn't get worn down by hazards or Burn or Toxic. That thing would be a monster.
 
Infernis, Deglas and HoL: Let GF do it. Not sure what the harm for lower tiers could possibly be if we let offensive Evo out to the public, since they already have a defensive one.

Something like that might not all be that terrible, as long as they give us a plethora of defensive mons to abuse w/ regenerator and prankster recover.
 
Some more things I want for Gen 6

Skarmory Evo
85/90/145/20/77/83-Regenerator-Sturdy-Light Metal

This makes Offensive Eviolite more viable as Skarmory now has 210 defense, 105 special defense (factoring in Eviolite). Modest Kadabra can't even 2HKO with Focus Blast (its a 3HKO using Specs and no Rocks), and since Focus Blast misses so much, Eviolite Skarmory will win. Not even a Critical will OHKO Skarmory Eviolite with Rocks, dealing 80-86+12% (the 12% is rocks damage) and Sturdy prevents an OHKO.

Other thing I want for Generation 6
More types of Weathers and new abusers
NIGHT
[insert pokemon here]'s vision became black and clouded!
-Boosts Attack of Dark types by 20% (Hydreigon has 126 Atk and 125 sp.Atk now becoming the deadliest mixed sweeper since DPP Infernape)
-accuracy of ALL moves (except poison and dark) are decreased by 10%
-Boosts speed of Poison types by 50%
-Chlorophyll users gain a 25% speed decrease


TAILWIND
The conditions got very windy!
All moves lose 10% accuracy (except flying moves, which gain the ability to never miss)
Flying moves gain a 50% boost in power (Hurricane=180 base power, without STAB)
The wind lifts all grounded foes unless a new weather comes (Heatran immune 2 ground)
All pokemon (whether foe or friend) gain a 50% speed boost in windy conditions
The base power of Fighting type moves are halved (Focus Blast=60 base power)

The ability for U-Turn and Volt Switch to avoid Pursuit (Celebi into Lucario, eats Pursuit)

A grass move with 100 base power (with HUGE distribution, but especially give it toCelebi, Leaf Storm's side effect sucks, and the ability to OHKO Politoed with a 100 base power move is greatly appreciated for Celebi).

Fire priority (Infernal Onrush)

Abilities that cancel weather (this has been mentioned like 1000 times already lol)
 
What about an Eviolite for Speed (i.e. a Choice Scarf for NFEs that doesn't lock them into a move). I think that would possibly make a load more Pokemon suddenly viable, especially ones like Magneton (it would give it similar speed and higher special attack than Jolteon).
 
All pokemon (whether foe or friend) gain a 50% speed boost in windy conditions
Oh, yes, this would really change the metagame. Think carefully of it...

Concerning the offensive eviolite, I think Sneasel would be a funny user. A very good speed (115), a usable attack (95). Close to a life orb Weavile without recoil.
Scyther with 105 speed, 110 attack and SD could be nice, he has a correct bulk (but SR weakness...).
Rhydon would become an amazing powerhouse under TR (130 attack, a nice defense to resist priorities despite it's weakesses).
Magneton would probably become more used than Magnezone.

Yes, it could definitely be fun, and I don't see any broken thing coming (in OU, it would probably be banned soon in RU and NU).
 
Some more things I want for Gen 6

NIGHT
[insert pokemon here]'s vision became black and clouded!
-Boosts Attack of Dark types by 20% (Hydreigon has 126 Atk and 125 sp.Atk now becoming the deadliest mixed sweeper since DPP Infernape)
-accuracy of ALL moves (except poison and dark) are decreased by 10%
-Boosts speed of Poison types by 50%
-Chlorophyll users gain a 25% speed decrease


TAILWIND
The conditions got very windy!
All moves lose 10% accuracy (except flying moves, which gain the ability to never miss)
Flying moves gain a 50% boost in power (Hurricane=180 base power, without STAB)
The wind lifts all grounded foes unless a new weather comes (Heatran immune 2 ground)
All pokemon (whether foe or friend) gain a 50% speed boost in windy conditions
The base power of Fighting type moves are halved (Focus Blast=60 base power)
No, no, no. We do not need more hax in this game (see underlined). If this were to happen, I would hope that we would ban this simply on evasion clause. Not to mention that both of these weathers are rather broken. You're suggesting giving Tornadus the equivalent of a 270 base power attack with a %30 chance to confuse and will never miss. That's basically Explosion with better coverage and the the ability to not die when you use it.
 
Something Gamefreak has to do is not give weather summoning abilities to crappy pokemon (bar T-Tar and Hippo) because they really suck. Ninetales is a pile of crap and has average speed and SDef (average is like poor because of its typing) and has crappy stats on the other side. Look at its BST, one of the lowest in OU. Why did they give Drizzle to Politoed? Seriously. I am hoping next generation we have alternative weather conditions like:

  • Fog
    • Accuracy decreased by 10%
    • Defog removes all entry hazards (except not yours! Rapid Spin equivalent) and does 100 Base Damage.
    • Entry Hazards have a 50% chance to miss their mark
Give that to something viable like Gliscor and you got a deadly weather user.
 
Yes, it could definitely be fun, and I don't see any broken thing coming (in OU, it would probably be banned soon in RU and NU).
I don't see why the item would need to be banned, as it would just balance itself out surely (maybe a few Pokemon would need to be banned of course, but that's the case whether the item exists or not)? The best users of it would end up OU, and so on. I imagine it would make the lower tiers much more offensively orientated though. I think most people would choose that item over Eviolite.

Something Gamefreak has to do is not give weather summoning abilities to crappy pokemon (bar T-Tar and Hippo) because they really suck. Ninetales is a pile of crap and has average speed and SDef (average is like poor because of its typing) and has crappy stats on the other side. Look at its BST, one of the lowest in OU. Why did they give Drizzle to Politoed? Seriously. I am hoping next generation we have alternative weather conditions like:
Those are strong weather conditions though, and make the Pokemon themselves good. And Scizor is often #1 in usage and only has a BST of 500, so I think it's possible for a Pokemon with a lower stat total to compete in OU (we have Forretress competing in the Ubers metagame where everything has a BST of 200 points higher than it for example).

I actually want some weaker Pokemon to get Drizzle tbh. I don't get why Politoed's pre-evos didn't get Drizzle. Drizzle would've been a lot easier to deal with this generation had we been able to ban Politoed and made rain teams have to use Poliwhirl or even Poliwag to get rain. People say it wouldn't make much difference if they had to use Poliwag, but I've seen in UU in the past couple of generations that it makes a HUGE difference to weather playstyles viability when Abomasnow/Hippowdon move out of UU and they have to use Snover/Hippopotas instead.

So I do hope for some weaker Drizzle Pokemon rather than stronger ones next time. Some people will refuse to ban Politoed if it's the only remaining Drizzle Pokemon, so having some other weaker ones would've made life easier imo.
 
Yo, crazy folks talking about offensive Eviolite. Want to know why that's a horrific idea?

Fucking Krabby.

Sure, he's slow, but slap him on a trick room team. Maybe pass him a few speed boosts from Ninjask. Offensive Eviolite Adamant Sheer Force Krabby's Crabhammer would kill easily Groudon twice in the rain. That's right, it doesn't even need to be super effective.

A more direct comparison: Crabhammer deals up to 170.5% damage to max defense Shuckle. Scarf Kyogre's max health Water Spout deals only 167.21% to a max SpD set. Specs Kyogre deals up to 200% with Hydro Pump.

That would be the most powerful physical move in the game.
Alright look, Darumaka has Hustle as an ability. Add this new offensive Eviolite and sun and watch what it can do:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise in sun: 304-358 (83.97 - 98.89%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in sun: 202-238 (77.09 - 90.83%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Magcargo in sun: 180-212 (73.46 - 86.53%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pure ridiculousness.
 
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