★ Reg M-A Metagame Discussion Thread

[Kenan]

Loving the format so far. Weather wars feels very 2012-esque and limited items with a regional dex is very 2014. There is basically zero opportunity cost to having two megas and picking which one based off MU. (Dare I say you can bring your FWG core every game and rotate from one of three megas?)

I thought going into the format that the new megas were going to be overpowered due to several generations of power creep in abilities, learnsets, and base stat optimization. As of now however, it looks like the best megas are Ttar, Gengar, and CharY (in no particular order). I am sure that by Indy regionals there will be a meta defining Floette team to push it into the top three, but as of now it feels very managable whereas the aforementioned megas do so much with so little.

In terms of supporting cast, Sinistcha is easily going to be a top 3 Pokemon in usage and I think it could be top 1. I cannot think of a team comp which would not benefit from having Sinistcha and there are several premier Pokemon whose best partner is Sinistcha.

Looking forward to how the meta shakes out.

 

[vishy fishy]

How are we feeling about mega Glimm / glimm in general?

 

[Kenan]

How are we feeling about mega Glimm / glimm in general?

I still haven't played against one but its speed tier looks really bad. Its 1 base speed slower than Garchomp & mega Floette and 2 slower than mega Excadrill. It has to have speed control, and every team is saying that. Ground feels like a really strong attacking type at the moment. A lot of teams have one resist (Sinistcha), sometimes a single immunity, and there's no Grassy Terrain to halve its damage. There's a lot to gain from mindlessly clicking EQ.

 

[Walrain]

I have a lotta hours in champs but I refuse to touch sun, wdym that sun+powder doesnt work?

At time of posting I had heard venusaur lost sleep powder. However, the more annoying abusers of powder in past formats (jumpluff, lilligant-h) aren't in, so while it does still work it's def nerfed a bit

 

[Stories]

Hit Masterball last night, format is super fun so I wanna share some of my thoughts.


CODE: UK1P18KXUU

I picked the Charizard starter roster, I implore any beginners to pick Charizard or Tyranitar as they have the highest amount of top-tier Pokemon to start with. This gave me Gengar and Whimsicott, which I both immediately trained to my liking because I knew I wanted these two before the game even came out. The tutorials took me to the recruit page where I immediately got Farigiraf (a bit lucky but another one of my favorites that I absolutely knew I wanted to use). After some more online grinding I eventually got my hands on Arcanine-Hisui, Sneasler, and some other Pokemon I tried like Rhyperior, Incineroar, and Kommo-o. I also got the mystery gift Dragonite which I trained after encountering and struggling against some Mega Dragonites online.

Although this initially was going to be a PerishTrap team, the Champions dex does not make this an easy task; Firstly the power level is quite high to pull this off, the best mega evolutions (Tyranitar, Charizard, Gardevoir, Froslass, and opposing Gengar) threaten to OHKO even the bulkiest of Mega Gengars. No Gothitelle or Eject Button also makes it very difficult to ensure the first 2 Perish KOs.

TL:DR I will not be PerishTrapping.. yet!​

So Gengar kept Icy Wind from its default moveset, and I taught it Disable to pair with Whimsicott's Encore. Trapping stuff into Encore + Disable is brutal enough, but there are so many Dark-types in the format that I needed something to easily dispatch them (I still haven't found the perfect solution to this because Chople Berries are becoming increasingly popular) so I explored a few different Fighting-types to pair with Mega Gengar. I initially wanted Kommo-o because its Soundproof ability would have paired well with PerishTrapping. Honestly this still might be the case but I couldn't settle on a good set for it. IronPress sets without Tera seemed super underwhelming, Clangorous Soul sets without Throat Spray too. Perhaps I will try a standard physical 3 attacks but that's for another day.
I stumbled upon Sneasler in the recruitment ranch and figured White Herb + Unburden was one of the best answers to Incineroar and Sand teams (two annoyances for Mega Gengar). As it turns out the two pair together perfectly despite their shared Ground-weakness (I gotta find a solution to this lol).
Arcanine-Hisui and Incineroar hold the team together quite well, although the damage output and priority from Arcanine-H have felt more useful than Incineroar's support.
Farigiraf is here to counter Trick Room and help handle rain. Imprison + Trick Room is very nice although I think other moves are worth exploring like Helping Hand and Ally Switch.


Rain is insanely good. I've found Archaludon specifically to be quite underwhelming without an Assault Vest but Basculegion feels unstoppable. Pelipper builds have the upper hand on standard sand teams, although Mega-weather setters like Tyranitar (mega specifically), Charizard-Y, and Froslass often win the weather war on lead. Semi or even full Trick Room teams are the best way to handle these builds I've found, as they often have Torkoal to change the weather and the stronger speed control. I expect rain teams to start using Farigiraf; it obviously stifles Fake Out and Kingambit's Sucker Punch, but Imprison + Trick Room shuts down what I think is the best method of managing rain teams.


I've seen quite a few simple Intimidate-punishers + physical attacker cores, Kingambit is most common but Empoleon has impressed me too. many fast physical sweepers are quite middling but the concept is still potent. Mega Froslass has amazing synergy with these, as the two have positive matchups against Incineroar and Tyranitar and appreciate Aurora Veil.


Decade-old sun core. Charizard-Y is incredible right now, even using Scorching Sands for Arcanine-Hisui. Venusaur is pretty mid imo but the speed control is always appreciated. Garchomp + Zard spamming spread moves is very difficult to deal with, not much else to say about these.

 

[SoulboyVGC]

I wanna comment on some of the changes right now:
First Impression: 90 -> 100: Ariados is pretty bad but it gets this now
Bone Rush 25 -> 30: Lucario has ground coverage with average base power of 98 (88 factoring accuracy)
Night Daze 85 -> 90: Not too viable since only can use it
Fire Lash 80 -> 90:
Trop Kick 70 -> 85: Huge buff for Tsareena, no longer has to rely that much on Power Whip.
Spirit Shackle 80 -> 90: The three Decidueye fans are eating well ig.
Beak Blast 100 -> 120: Probably not enough for Toucannon
Grav Apple, Apple Acid 80 -> 90: If Appletun gets some usage, this could be impactful.
Psyshield Bash 70 -> 90: Actually huge for Wydeer , viable STAB is nice.
Mountain Gale 100 -> 120: :Avalugg-H: Avalugg could see usage on Trick Room teams for this.
Infernal Parade 60 -> 65: Not enough for it to be used over Shadow Ball.

Only real winner from this is Tsareena, but the fact that they're actively buffing moves on lesser used Pokemon could mean we have some more move buffs in the future.


Sleep
Amoonguss isn't in the game, its just the mascot of sleep in our collective nightmares.
1-3 turns -> 1-2 turns. Say goodbye to three turn sleeps. In terms of objective viability, this doesn't hurt it as much. The 1 turn sleep is still incredibly useful.

Paralysis:
1/4 chance to para -> 1/8th chance to para

Paraflinch becomes a lot less popular, paralysis in general is still really viable but not Twave Flutter Mane levels of spammable as the payout is lower.


Floette-Mega (F) @ Floettite
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light of Ruin
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect


Floette-Mega (F) @ Floettite
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Floette is very one dimensional but stupid strong, just for reference:
252 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. -2 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 159-188 (103.9 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 204-242 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO


Will be interesting to see how its role evolves in the metagame.

 

[Kallum]

I wanna comment on some of the changes right now:
First Impression: 90 -> 100: Ariados is pretty bad but it gets this now
Bone Rush 25 -> 30: Lucario has ground coverage with average base power of 98 (88 factoring accuracy)
Night Daze 85 -> 90: Not too viable since only can use it
Fire Lash 80 -> 90:
Trop Kick 70 -> 85: Huge buff for Tsareena, no longer has to rely that much on Power Whip.
Spirit Shackle 80 -> 90: The three Decidueye fans are eating well ig.
Beak Blast 100 -> 120: Probably not enough for Toucannon
Grav Apple, Apple Acid 80 -> 90: If Appletun gets some usage, this could be impactful.
Psyshield Bash 70 -> 90: Actually huge for Wydeer , viable STAB is nice.
Mountain Gale 100 -> 120: :Avalugg-H: Avalugg could see usage on Trick Room teams for this.
Infernal Parade 60 -> 65: Not enough for it to be used over Shadow Ball.

Only real winner from this is Tsareena, but the fact that they're actively buffing moves on lesser used Pokemon could mean we have some more move buffs in the future.


Sleep
Amoonguss isn't in the game, its just the mascot of sleep in our collective nightmares.
1-3 turns -> 1-2 turns. Say goodbye to three turn sleeps. In terms of objective viability, this doesn't hurt it as much. The 1 turn sleep is still incredibly useful.

Paralysis:
1/4 chance to para -> 1/8th chance to para

Paraflinch becomes a lot less popular, paralysis in general is still really viable but not Twave Flutter Mane levels of spammable as the payout is lower.


Floette-Mega (F) @ Floettite
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light of Ruin
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect


Floette-Mega (F) @ Floettite
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Floette is very one dimensional but stupid strong, just for reference:
252 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. -2 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 159-188 (103.9 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 204-242 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO


Will be interesting to see how its role evolves in the metagame.

I think Psychic is good on Floette because it can be ev'd to live a adamant dire claw 70% of the time, however my main thought is that Light of Ruin is very fradulent, its only 45 BP more but you lost the 100% accuracy and take insane recoil damage. I found myself winning much more by clicking Dgleam and sure it was sick to finish a game off with a always guaranteed KO from LoR (which often knocked out floette too), I just don't think long-term that Floette will be running this move.


Especially as we do move more towards the 2nd set in your post, which I firmly believe will rise in Popularity as we get more defensive tools such as Amoongus and Rocky Helmet/Googles for Maushold, this Pokemon will likely become Xerneas 2 for any team and matchup that allows it to get off 2 Calm Minds, not to mention its excellent speed stat which makes going 252 Spe Jolly with Bulk viable due to having better matchup against things such as future Life Orb Garchomps (scarf chomp doesnt do enough damage to really KO).

Now we could get Mega Metagross in 2 months and this mon falls heavily out of popularity due to that but we will have to wait and see.

 

[BlueRay]

Some thoughts on the following Pokémon.

Every time I faced Archaludon, it never does anything substantial. Loss of Body Press and lack of Assault Vest make it much easier to handle. I'd even say it's underwhelming on Rain teams, in my experiences. Perhaps, Rain might be best off without Archaludon since it's Basculegion who's the real teamplayer.

Speaking of Basculegion, I can only echo what other people have said so far. It's genuinely threatening due to its good offensive typing, decent bulk, Fake Out immunity, great ability options, and Last Respect. You need to be prepared to handle it. I've seen some Basculegion teams running redirection to get around Black Glasses Kingambit's Sucker Punch. I think as long as you have the speed advantage--sth very easy to do for everyone, like Trick Room, Tailwind, weather overriding, etc.--, it shouldn't be too obnoxious.

Loss of Power Herb and boosting items like Life Orb or Choice Specs make Glimmora a little bit awkward offensively as you often fail to secure OHKOs against stuff like Incinineroar. Garchomp's omni presence can also discourage you to experiment with damage boosting items like Hard Stone. However, I've had a ton of success with Shuca Berry and the following moveset: Power Gem, Venoshock, Mortal Spin, and Spiky Shield. Venoshock works extremely well with Toxic Debris and Mortal Spin and does still good damage even if you got affected by Snarl or screens. Sometimes, opponent will ignore you as they are afraid of Toxic Debris, which is why Mortal Spin can be very punishing to your opponents. Pair Glimmora with a good ally to handle Ground / Steel or special attackers, like Gyarados, and you should be able to have a good time. I've used base Glimmora on a Sand team where wearing down opponents become a lot more potent. It benefits from Sand as it increases its SpD and can pressure Kommo-o and pesky Fairy Pokémon. In general, Glimmora is a potent choice if you want to pressure Sun teams while retaining the Fairy resistance, unlike stuff like Kommo-o.

Speaking of Sand, Mega Tyranitar is amazing; you often win the weather war, and its tremenduous bulk make it hard to take down. With a redirector like Sinistcha, you can ensure it stays longer on the field and redirect Fighting moves away from it, such as Close Combat from Sneasler. While on the field, Mega Tyranitar puts good offensive pressure, especially with Rock Slide and Assurance / Knock Off, depending on your preferences.

Where there is Sand, there is often base Garchomp. On my team, I had Mega Garchomp, though, in case I didn't need to Mega-Evolve Tyranitar (the main Mega and star of the team). Sand Force boosted earth Power catches Incineroar and Kingambit off guard, and even in its base fom, Draco Meteor takes out Dragon Pokémon. And you also have the option to attack with Earthquake. Solid mixed attacking Mega Pokémon, which can work on the right team. Garchomp isn't too reliant on its Mega, and with item limitations, it's not a bad idea to have the option to Mega-Evolve. Play it into its strengths, which is its bulk. Mega Garchomp got once double targeted by Mega Charizard-Y's Solar Beam in Sun and Sneasler's Close Combat, and it survived despite running a Mild nature.

I think I've mentioned Gyarados before. So, I'll go more into details now. It is a great support option between Intimidate, Helping Hand, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, etc. Very disruptive and can also do respectable damage. I like running it on Sand teams in particular as it eases the Water match-up; after all, it regained Power Whip. Which means even Competitive Milotic has to be wary of. Gyarados is also a major annoyance for Sun teams in general since its great bulk and typing make it tough to take down while it keeps disrupting and doing some damage to them. Furthermore, with barely any viable Electric Pokémon so far in the metagame--they seem pretty rare at the moment--, Gyarados has effectively no weakness. Sure, there's Rock Slide but it's a spread move, so, does less damage and is affected by Intimidate. In any case, since there's Incineroar, Gyarados isn't as valuable and splashable. Intimidate + Fake Out + Parting Shot is hard to compete with. Still, try out Gyarados when you can make room for it.

Aegislash was my last member of my Sand team, and I rarely used it But it's there to offer Wide Guard support, especially relevant when many people spam Garchomp, Kommo-o, Mega Froslass, Mega Charizard-Y, etc. or dread Mega Floette. It improves the Trick Room mu, very good into Crabominable, and can also pressure Corviknight with Shadow Ball while not fearing much in return. That said, I haven't faced many Aegislash yet, but it's got a good typing and a useful niche.

Outside of Sand, I've experimented with some other Pokémon:

Base Chandelure walls Mega Charizard-Y and Torkoal thanks to Flash Fire, and if you give it the option to Mega-Evolve when necessary, it's useful to bypass Mega Froslass's screens or Mega Gengar's Substitute due to Infiltrator. Certain Pokémon really appreciate Chandelure's presence, such as Mega Meganium. Besides, it can offer speed control with Trick Room. I'm starting to really like the idea of running double Mega in the current season if a team can afford it. It makes sense when you have limited items. At times, it feels a bit like Terastallization where you decide who and which Pokémon to transform.

The metagame is hostile to Mega Meganium; you have to be wary of Mega Charizard-Y, Sneasler, Mega Gengar, Mega Froslass, etc. So, it's not a self-sufficient Pokémon and needs to rely on its teammates to succeed. Even with all these threats, its typing is still useful to have to check Garchomp, Tyranitar, Kommo-o, Basculegion, etc. Not a bad Pokémon at all.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to really explore Mega Starmie. I've used it a few times, and I've even faced it occasionally. I wished it was a bit faster (so, it can outspeed Sneasler, for instance) or had Aqua Step but at the very least, it puts serious damage output. Even Mega Charizard-Y isn't safe from it in Sun because, unless it's got some bulk investment, it dies to Liquidation. Ice Spinner is also a blessing to handle Dragon and Sinistcha. And then you can decide between Flip Turn and Aqua Jet. This is basically Choice Band / Life Orb Urshifu-Rapid-Strike in terms of damage output, iirc. Flip Turn has the advantage of getting around Intimidate and doing a good chunk of damage while Aqua Jet + Liquidation can probably take out Basculegion in Rain. (I remember Basculegion being OHKOed bv a critical Liquidation in Rain). Your choice. Aqua Jet is also useful to take out weakened targets that are faster than you. Need to see more of Mega Starmie to better judge its viability. For instance, can it perform even well enough outside of Rain?

Mega Gengar is a nasty Pokémon since it traps non Ghost Pokémon. And where there is Mega Gengar, there often is Kommo-o. This needs no introduction. They do the same thing as back in gen 7. With Fairies out of the picture, Kommo-o is scary to face due to its offensive potency and handles Pokémon like Incineroar or Kingambit that threaten Mega Gengar. I've primarily seen Mega Gengar on this one Japanese team, which got 1st or 2nd place in a tournament, iirc. So, there are definitely some people trying it out or some variation of it.

Now, I could talk more about other Pokémon, but I've written so much already. Perhaps, next time.

 

[SoulboyVGC]

I think Psychic is good on Floette because it can be ev'd to live a adamant dire claw 70% of the time, however my main thought is that Light of Ruin is very fradulent, its only 45 BP more but you lost the 100% accuracy and take insane recoil damage. I found myself winning much more by clicking Dgleam and sure it was sick to finish a game off with a always guaranteed KO from LoR (which often knocked out floette too), I just don't think long-term that Floette will be running this move.


Especially as we do move more towards the 2nd set in your post, which I firmly believe will rise in Popularity as we get more defensive tools such as Amoongus and Rocky Helmet/Googles for Maushold, this Pokemon will likely become Xerneas 2 for any team and matchup that allows it to get off 2 Calm Minds, not to mention its excellent speed stat which makes going 252 Spe Jolly with Bulk viable due to having better matchup against things such as future Life Orb Garchomps (scarf chomp doesnt do enough damage to really KO).

Now we could get Mega Metagross in 2 months and this mon falls heavily out of popularity due to that but we will have to wait and see.

Agreed on the LoR part mostly*, though Psychic is going to be rarer since Sneasler already drops to Modest Moonblast without bulk investment. We will probably see bulky Sneasler (/???!) in the future but they have to sacrifice power or speed, speed lets your Sneasler hit Fake Out first. They could also just be Sash which invalidates Psychic as the better option entirely in that position. I'd say it's niche but not 'good' persay.

*I still think that once the metagame adapts to Floette or even in future updates adding more mons, Floette's LoR burst damage would be essential on HO. Being able to take out basically any neutral target is valuable in a format without specs and as the power level goes higher, Calm Mind sets may not have enough time to work. Still of the opinion that Calm Mind is the best set at the moment.

 

[ant4456]

I'm not good at VGC so I'm not really like, the best person to give opinions I guess, but I've been enjoying Mega Lopunny on a team, though I'm mostly using a Mega Floette team now.

Mega Lop feels to me like a really solid anti-meta option that struggles with 4MSS heavily. I have mostly run Close-Combat, Fake Out, Triple Axel and Protect, opting to ignore regular Normal STAB entirely due to how ass the options are. If you look at the top used mons this set has a really solid matchup into most of the metagame, often going Adamant + running with guaranteed Tailwind has made that even more the case.

Scrappy ignoring Intimidate is a massive buff and means that I'm able to keep it in sometimes for a few turns before being forced out, cycling Protect and what are very threatening moves. Tyranitar, Garchomp (unfortunately gonna take a lot due to Rough Skin if it's running that, but oh well). Dragapult, Mega Froslass, Aegislash, Incineroar, (you will need Jolly or Tailwind to outspeed, but if you do you can break its sash and just kill it in one turn) Aerodactyl, Dragonite, Mega Lucario, Mega Drampa, and Archaludon are all Pokemon it has a fairly solid MU into.

It feels like a big gatekeeper of Sand especially and kinda just fucks up Mega Froslass (not that that's anything special IMO, I don't think it's very good) but its biggest weakness is just the several common spread moves and their users. Obviously, Dazzling Gleam forces you out basically every time, and Mega Charizard Y is another struggle.

I think Mega Lopunny is a good secondary Mega option on a 6th slot because of its extremely consistent Fake Out pressure + positive matchup into Sand. I've tried running it with Helping Hand support especially and some of those calcs are just really good.

Some calcs:
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Froslass-Mega: 192-228 (108.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol)

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 228 HP / 92 Def Incineroar: 210-248 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 228 HP / 252 Def Incineroar: 180-212 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 170-204 (86.2 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 116-138 (58.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 186-222 (94.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 304-364 (165.2 - 197.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 166-198 (107 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(why I didn't list sinistcha as a positive mu) 252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Sinistcha: 114-138 (64 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 133-157 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 182-216 (111.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 166-198 (99.4 - 118.5%) -- 99.7% chance to OHKO

and so on

I think if people can teambuild around these challenges it can become a really strong and consistent Pokemon, but you need to find a way to still have a positive matchup with Sun (Mega Charizard Y is the big problem) and Mega Floette. It also really struggles into Sneasler which is a big problem. Those are the three things that I think really need to be solved on a team for Mega Lop to popoff.

I said it can be a good extra Mega slot, I tried two things, running it with Floette and either: Only choosing one, or just not Mega-ing Floette since it actually still has solid stats pre-Mega. I also tried Mega Dragonite which was a success, that is the Mega I would bring to the Sun matchup, and while 'nite is more spec'd into Physical before Mega I actually did find it okay to run Mega Lop + it in some rare cases, especially Rain where I packed Thunderbolt (also for Char-Y) and standard Sun. Those matchups with its type are just really useful, no matter what.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Corv wants Tailwind to support the team Brave Bird to deal damage, and roost to potentially get multiple Tailwinds, Garchomp is spamming Earthquake and has stomping Tantrum/Dragon Claw for the reliable stabs. Mega Delphox probably goes for Psychic Heat Wave Overheat Protect, which gives you a lot of flexibility when it comes to targeting next to Garchomp. Azu and Conk are on the slower end, so they can do some prio spamming, most likely prio + stabs, and in conk's case, you go Mach Punch Drain Punch Ice Punch protect. Tsareena not sure what to do so just slap on a set and probably Taunt to get before opposing Taunt.

https://pokepast.es/94931df5a4c21fd7
Something like this? Train everything but corv in power and speed, and for corv just make the thing never die.

So I've tried a few things out and noticed I was never bringing Azu or Conk to battle, and although overheat was a good nuke, I missed having dazzling gleam more often than not, so I did a few changes and this is what I came up with:

Team

The only extra adjustment was replacing Psyshock with Psychic, because without Assault Vest, I was just losing out on power.

But I'm enjoying this so far. I'm relearning how o play VGC because I hated tera so I almost didn't play with it, and I haven't really tried to play seriously since VGC17

 

[DooDMan]

Really hoping this means sinistcha gets more use as a rage powder mon.

Im big fan of this

 

[Kenan]

I'm not good at VGC so I'm not really like, the best person to give opinions I guess, but I've been enjoying Mega Lopunny on a team, though I'm mostly using a Mega Floette team now.

Mega Lop feels to me like a really solid anti-meta option that struggles with 4MSS heavily. I have mostly run Close-Combat, Fake Out, Triple Axel and Protect, opting to ignore regular Normal STAB entirely due to how ass the options are. If you look at the top used mons this set has a really solid matchup into most of the metagame, often going Adamant + running with guaranteed Tailwind has made that even more the case.

I've been seeing a lot of chatter from top players about Lopunny lately. You (and others) are seeing the same potential. I think Encore should be on the set somewhere. It also gets a crazy supporting movepool to exploit. I've heard of people using Quick Attack as well.

 

[ant4456]

on my mega floette team i feel like im winning more by having strength sap sinistcha rotom wash and incineroar cycle in and out on the phys attackers who all are desperate to kill mega floette before it snowballs the game, than mega floette actually snowballing the game

edit: like im not exaggerating i just won a game by burning + strength sapping with good pivots and pivoting mega floette, it used an attacking move one single time and they just constantly targeted that slot lmao

 

[Clas]

Some thoughts on the following Pokémon.

woah thats a name i recognise from other places. will add my own thoughts though on stuff that i can speak on.

Every time I faced Archaludon, it never does anything substantial. Loss of Body Press and lack of Assault Vest make it much easier to handle. I'd even say it's underwhelming on Rain teams, in my experiences. Perhaps, Rain might be best off without Archaludon since it's Basculegion who's the real teamplayer.

Archaludon feels really, REALLY bad to play against as a balance user. It matches up so well into both Rain and most balances and can just click buttons since many of the good special attackers are either Megas and/or weak to Archaludon. I will say, though, that it has serious 4MSS. Arch wants EShot always, Draco for the burst STAB, ASphere for Gambit, FCannon for Floette and Froslass, and Protect for obvious reasons, but has to drop one of the latter three. I have also seen Arch on sand, and I was not-so-pleasantly surprised to see it actually perform well. I'm inclined to believe that Arch will start to trend towards being used on teams that match up poorly into Rain rather than on Rain.

Speaking of Basculegion, I can only echo what other people have said so far. It's genuinely threatening due to its good offensive typing, decent bulk, Fake Out immunity, great ability options, and Last Respect. You need to be prepared to handle it. I've seen some Basculegion teams running redirection to get around Black Glasses Kingambit's Sucker Punch. I think as long as you have the speed advantage--sth very easy to do for everyone, like Trick Room, Tailwind, weather overriding, etc.--, it shouldn't be too obnoxious.

I've seen both Scarf and MWater on Rain so far, and to be quite honest I can't tell which variant is better. With the current meta being very reliant on weather control, I'd assume that Scarf is better, but there are probably people cooking up some anti-weather rain builds where MWater is the strictly superior option.

Speaking of Sand, Mega Tyranitar is amazing; you often win the weather war, and its tremenduous bulk make it hard to take down. With a redirector like Sinistcha, you can ensure it stays longer on the field and redirect Fighting moves away from it, such as Close Combat from Sneasler. While on the field, Mega Tyranitar puts good offensive pressure, especially with Rock Slide and Assurance / Knock Off, depending on your preferences.

MTar is honestly terrifying, although it's quite funny knowing that Mega Froslass actually has quite possibly the best matchup into MTar of all the weather setters if you aren't brazen with your Mega usage. Since Froslass is always used on balance and/or with Sneasler, it becomes really easy to pressure (Mega) Tyranitar and then just slowly outpace it to then overload with either Sinistcha redirection or Sneasler support to clean house in less than 3 turns. I must have used this gameplan at least three times in my climb to Master Ball.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to really explore Mega Starmie. I've used it a few times, and I've even faced it occasionally. I wished it was a bit faster (so, it can outspeed Sneasler, for instance) or had Aqua Step but at the very least, it puts serious damage output. Even Mega Charizard-Y isn't safe from it in Sun because, unless it's got some bulk investment, it dies to Liquidation. Ice Spinner is also a blessing to handle Dragon and Sinistcha. And then you can decide between Flip Turn and Aqua Jet. This is basically Choice Band / Life Orb Urshifu-Rapid-Strike in terms of damage output, iirc. Flip Turn has the advantage of getting around Intimidate and doing a good chunk of damage while Aqua Jet + Liquidation can probably take out Basculegion in Rain. (I remember Basculegion being OHKOed bv a critical Liquidation in Rain). Your choice. Aqua Jet is also useful to take out weakened targets that are faster than you. Need to see more of Mega Starmie to better judge its viability. For instance, can it perform even well enough outside of Rain?

I think Mega Starmie is kind of in the same boat as Palafin and Scarf Basculegion, where they all fit on specific team styles. Rain or setup balance? Probably go Basculegion. Standard Froslass balance or similar concepts that need a Mega? Palafin. Other, more wacky balances that don't need a mega and don't have pivots? Starmie. This is how I viewed Palafin vs Basculegion in H, and this philosophy of mine feels even more true in M-A.


And now for some Deranged Clas Takes™.


This guy is slept on. Palafin is genuinely PRIMED to take over the meta, especially since it can afford to run Adamant in this meta. Wave Crash does more damage than Mega Starmie's Liquidation, not even including Mystic Water, and Jet Punch lets Palafin have the feeling of being a Scarf user without being a Scarf user. It also notably does well into a lot of the current meta - Incin is blown up if not holding a Passho Berry, Washtom takes about 50%, physdef Sinistcha takes just under 40% and is 2HKOed if carrying Ice Punch or Throat Chop, Sturdy Archaludon is 2HKOed in Rain, and there's probably a bunch more examples that I'm forgetting.

Calcs

Palafin vs Starmie vs Basculegion

252+ Atk Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 132-156 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mystic Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 159-187 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 121-144 (58.4 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Adaptability Basculegion Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 124-148 (59.9 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Basculegion Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 136-162 (65.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Palafin vs Incin/Sinistcha/Washtom/Archaludon

-1 252+ Atk Mystic Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Incineroar: 194-230 (96.5 - 114.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mystic Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Rotom-Wash: 73-87 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mystic Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Sinistcha: 61-72 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Palafin-Hero Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Sinistcha: 86-102 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Palafin-Hero Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Sinistcha: 90-108 (50.5 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mystic Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stamina Archaludon in Rain: 158-187 (95.7 - 113.3%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO

I do want to quickly speak on some things with Palafin, though.

• STOP RUNNING SCARF/FLIP TURN PALAFIN ITS NOT GOOD YOU HAVE BASCULEGION FOR THAT
• Close Combat is a decent but kind of awkward move on Palafin.
  • It does improve the Archaludon matchup, but it's bad into literally everything else.
• Haze is cool but a bit situational
  • The meta isn't developed enough yet for setup to be super prevalent, and Electro Shot is still OHKOing through AVeil half the time if you're fast. However, Haze is still an entirely respectable option.
• Pivoting teammates are entirely necessary. With only one pivot present (Incineroar), getting Palafin in and out enough is really awkward and makes it feel bad to use. Preferably have at least 2 pivots, with up to 4 being preferred - here's my current and Day 2 Reg H teams for reference.

You may notice that my current team has Choice Scarf Sneasler. What the fuck is Choice Scarf Sneasler. Well, I'll tell you.


Sneasler is in a bit of an awkward situation right now. White Herb and Focus Sash are both good items, yes, but the former is quite slow to get going and the latter is not only really hard to actually trigger but is also really, REALLY easy to stop triggering altogether. This means that Sneasler has less functionality than it'd like on many teams where it should fit. The solution? Don't even bother with the setup.

Choice Scarf Sneasler takes what we've learned from Choice Scarf Urshifu, minus the whole Unseen Fist thing, and remixes it to make it quite a nice form of speed control in the current meta. Most notably, Choice Scarf Sneasler has the ability to run Throat Chop without cost, a move it usually cannot run, as well as use U-turn, a move it loves to spam on Poison Touch sets. U-turn is also really nice to have in general, since this meta is not a very pivot-heavy one due to a lack of pivots in general; the only notable ones right now are Incineroar, Basculegion, and Will-O/Scarf Washtom. This puts Sneasler in a very unique situation where it can threaten five or even six different actions per turn rather than its standard 1-3. You do obviously lose out on move choice freedom and Fake Out, but this is a worthwhile tradeoff if you at least outspeed Hisuian Typhlosion.


I thought at first that matches would quickly devolve into Throat Chop wars, and this isn't entirely untrue, but Darkest Lariat is probably the better choice overall. Throat Chop is only viable if your Incineroar is particularly fast, and is otherwise matching up poorly into the metagame. I'd go so far as to say that Taunt and maybe even Will-O and HH are better options for most teams right now, since Throat Chop feels like it's not clicked enough, although Darkest Lariat is still probably usually better than most of those anyway.


Probably the most consistent inconsistent Pokemon in the meta. Hydro + VSwitch/TBolt + Will-O is so threatening against a ton of the meta, and Electric/Water with Levitate also matches up well defensively. The issue is that Washtom relies on low accuracy moves to stay threatening, but even then it still has great pressuring value. I've seen Sitrus, Leftovers, and a little Scarf usage, but all have been pretty threatening to varying degrees. Definitely interested in seeing how Washtom is used in the coming weeks.

 

[BusterStatus]

Hit Masterball last night, format is super fun so I wanna share some of my thoughts.


CODE: UK1P18KXUU

I picked the Charizard starter roster, I implore any beginners to pick Charizard or Tyranitar as they have the highest amount of top-tier Pokemon to start with. This gave me Gengar and Whimsicott, which I both immediately trained to my liking because I knew I wanted these two before the game even came out. The tutorials took me to the recruit page where I immediately got Farigiraf (a bit lucky but another one of my favorites that I absolutely knew I wanted to use). After some more online grinding I eventually got my hands on Arcanine-Hisui, Sneasler, and some other Pokemon I tried like Rhyperior, Incineroar, and Kommo-o. I also got the mystery gift Dragonite which I trained after encountering and struggling against some Mega Dragonites online.

Although this initially was going to be a PerishTrap team, the Champions dex does not make this an easy task; Firstly the power level is quite high to pull this off, the best mega evolutions (Tyranitar, Charizard, Gardevoir, Froslass, and opposing Gengar) threaten to OHKO even the bulkiest of Mega Gengars. No Gothitelle or Eject Button also makes it very difficult to ensure the first 2 Perish KOs.

TL:DR I will not be PerishTrapping.. yet!​

So Gengar kept Icy Wind from its default moveset, and I taught it Disable to pair with Whimsicott's Encore. Trapping stuff into Encore + Disable is brutal enough, but there are so many Dark-types in the format that I needed something to easily dispatch them (I still haven't found the perfect solution to this because Chople Berries are becoming increasingly popular) so I explored a few different Fighting-types to pair with Mega Gengar. I initially wanted Kommo-o because its Soundproof ability would have paired well with PerishTrapping. Honestly this still might be the case but I couldn't settle on a good set for it. IronPress sets without Tera seemed super underwhelming, Clangorous Soul sets without Throat Spray too. Perhaps I will try a standard physical 3 attacks but that's for another day.
I stumbled upon Sneasler in the recruitment ranch and figured White Herb + Unburden was one of the best answers to Incineroar and Sand teams (two annoyances for Mega Gengar). As it turns out the two pair together perfectly despite their shared Ground-weakness (I gotta find a solution to this lol).
Arcanine-Hisui and Incineroar hold the team together quite well, although the damage output and priority from Arcanine-H have felt more useful than Incineroar's support.
Farigiraf is here to counter Trick Room and help handle rain. Imprison + Trick Room is very nice although I think other moves are worth exploring like Helping Hand and Ally Switch.


Rain is insanely good. I've found Archaludon specifically to be quite underwhelming without an Assault Vest but Basculegion feels unstoppable. Pelipper builds have the upper hand on standard sand teams, although Mega-weather setters like Tyranitar (mega specifically), Charizard-Y, and Froslass often win the weather war on lead. Semi or even full Trick Room teams are the best way to handle these builds I've found, as they often have Torkoal to change the weather and the stronger speed control. I expect rain teams to start using Farigiraf; it obviously stifles Fake Out and Kingambit's Sucker Punch, but Imprison + Trick Room shuts down what I think is the best method of managing rain teams.


I've seen quite a few simple Intimidate-punishers + physical attacker cores, Kingambit is most common but Empoleon has impressed me too. many fast physical sweepers are quite middling but the concept is still potent. Mega Froslass has amazing synergy with these, as the two have positive matchups against Incineroar and Tyranitar and appreciate Aurora Veil.


Decade-old sun core. Charizard-Y is incredible right now, even using Scorching Sands for Arcanine-Hisui. Venusaur is pretty mid imo but the speed control is always appreciated. Garchomp + Zard spamming spread moves is very difficult to deal with, not much else to say about these.

Just wanted to say thanks for dropping this replica team. I'm new to VGC and this team has been helpful for me to learn setups and how to predict based on opponent's mons before and in-game. Feels good to nail the Trick Room pivot.

 

[pengu]

I've been grinding and am at about 1900 in the Master Ball Tier. To make this journey, I've been using and experimenting with Sun. In this post, I want to go into what makes Sun so powerful and show off two teams that I've been using (really just variants of each other but whatever).

1. The Charizard Problem
​

This format lets Charizard-Y run wild. With such a limited dex, the power level is expectedly low. No legendaries either, making this feel like a second Regulation H. And just like how Charizard Sun became really powerful there, I fully expect Charizard Sun to be really powerful here. A lot of this format's top Pokemon--think Sinistcha, Corviknight, Mega Gengar, Mega Froslass--get OHKO'd by Charizard-Y. Those that don't will likely take huge damage, especially when the Sun is up. Sun also happens to matchup really well into Snow and, in my experience, actually has a solid matchup into Rain too (Archaludon without AV is really threatened by Charizard-Y, Basculegion handled by Speed Control + Grass/Dark types, Rain megas besides Dragonite follow similar story to Basculegion), meaning that more often than not, it actually just wins the weather war. While Charizard lost Tailwind, it does still have really powerful options. Heat Wave is the main one, dealing huge spread damage. Weather Ball and Overheat can be swapped between as a secondary, non-spread STAB option, though I personally think Weather Ball is better because, while Overheat does OHKO or deal ~60% to whatever it hits in Sun, Weather Ball allows Charizard-Y to more consistently dish out damage thanks to there being no drop to its Special Attack. I personally round out its moveset with Solar Beam and Protect; Solar Beam hits Fire-resists, namely Rotom-W, Basculegion, and Tyranitar, while Protect is a generally solid option. Important to note that I have seen some Air Slash usages over Solar Beam, though honestly I don't find it too be that good aside from a Kommo-o matchup. Even though Kommo-o is generally difficult for Sun to deal with, Air Slash shouldn't be necessary IMO, as it feels like dead weight everywhere else.

Not to mention that its typing is rather good defensively right now as well. One of the most common offensive pieces right now, Sneasler, struggles to KO Charizard-Y before getting KO'd itself if not running options like Rock Slide or Rock Tomb. Charizard-Y's Flying typing also allows it to avoid Earthquake, not only letting it switch into Garchomp and Excadrill, but allowing ally Garchomp to spam Earthquake next to it (Earthquake + Heat Wave is a devastating combination). Speaking of Excadrill, Charizard-Y pretty much walls it out in a 1v1, as most run Iron Head, High Horsepower, Earthquake, and Protect, though you must be wary of Rock Slide, which seems to be picking up popularity as Charizard-Y does. Charizard-Y is also a Fairy resist, a role that is kinda scare right now. This means that it can take attacks from Mega Floette, as long as Floette is unboosted (Floette is fucking broken LMAO). It also takes on the other two major offensive Fairies, Sylveon and Primarina, the latter of which has Hyper Voice weakened thanks to Sun and is 2HKO'd by Solar Beam.


Here are some calcs with Charizard-Y just to express how absurd Charizard-Y is (some defensive calculations assume the support of Incineroar's Intimidate)

Charizard-Y Offensive Calculations

vs
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 2 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar in Sun: 156-184 (113.8 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 2 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar in Sun: 109-130 (79.5 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 32 HP / 3 SpD Mega Gengar in Sun: 153-180 (91.6 - 107.7%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 32 HP / 3 SpD Mega Gengar in Sun: 108-127 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 31 HP / 20 SpD Rotom-Wash: 130-154 (83.3 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 31 HP / 20 SpD Rotom-Wash in Sun: 61-72 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- 82.37% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 150-178 (106.3 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash in Sun: 71-84 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 14 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan in Sun: 150-177 (77.3 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 14 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan in Sun: 106-126 (54.6 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 14 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan in Sun: 195-229 (100.5 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 1 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler in Sun: 127-150 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 SpA Mega Charizard Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 1 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler in Sun: 178-211 (114.1 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Charizard-Y Defensive Calculations

Note that this will explore a default no-bulk spread and a bulkier spread, as opposed to above which just showcases a maximum speed and special attack Timid set.

vs
-1 30+ Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 112-136 (72.2 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 32 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 104-124 (67 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
30+ Atk Garchomp Dragon Rush (80 BP) vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 93-109 (60 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (using Dragon Rush as a substitute because for some reason Nimbasa City doesn't have Dragon Claw on their Champs damage Calculator!?)
32 Atk Garchomp Dragon Rush (80 BP) vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 84-100 (54.1 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

32 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 136-160 (88.8 - 104.5%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
30+ Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 148-176 (96.7 - 115%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

vs
-1 32+ Atk Sneasler Rock Slide vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 112-136 (72.2 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32+ Atk Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 93-109 (60 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

32+ Atk Sneasler Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 148-176 (96.7 - 115%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
-1 32+ Atk Sneasler Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 100-120 (65.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32+ Atk Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 79-94 (51.6 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can 100% run more bulk on Charizard-Y, can likely survive these Rock Slide calculations

vs
32+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 120-142 (77.4 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 100-118 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

32+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 103-123 (67.3 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 32+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 16 Def Mega Charizard Y: 127-151 (83 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs
32+ SpA Fairy Aura Mega Floette Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 60-71 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
32+ SpA Fairy Aura Mega Floette Light of Ruin vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 88-104 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 32+ SpA Fairy Aura Mega Floette Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 119-141 (77.7 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 32+ SpA Fairy Aura Mega Floette Light of Ruin vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 132-156 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

2. How do I actually build around Charizard?​

Teambuilding is daunting for many reasons. Some Pokemon make it even harder. Mega Gengar, for example, is widely agreed to be one of the best Mega Pokemon right now, between it, Mega Floette, and Charizard-Y. Mega Gengar, however, sees less usage than both of these. The reason why is it is really hard to build around. Charizard-Y luckily doesn't face the same issue, so here's a teambuilding framework that will hopefully help newer players in trying Sun.

Step 1: Sneasler
Sneasler feels like a must add for all Sun teams. Charizard-Y's hardest matchup is undoubtedly into Mega Tyranitar or even base form Tyranitar, aka Sand. One really easy way to remove Tyranitar and regain weather control is with Sneasler, since Close Combat OHKO's it and Excadrill. Speaking of Excadrill, it may still provide a bit of trouble due to its Focus Sash, though gaining weather control and possibly breaking its Focus Sash with Fake Out on Sneasler to KO it later with Close Combat from Sneasler should ease this up a bit. It can even provide speed control with Rock Tomb, which also destroys opposing Charizard-Y in the mirror, though Protect or Fake Out generally provide more value in this slot. I've also been theorizing with Acid Spray Sneasler, since it can allow Charizard-Y to pick up some nasty KO's. Sneasler also removes Mega Floette, which, when boosted, may become too out of hand for Charizard-Y to KO. Anyways, this feels like a must add to any Sun team that is using Charizard-Y.

Step 2: Grass-type vs
This is always Venusaur or Whimsicott IMO. They do fulfill different roles and, to be honest, kind of dictate how your team is going to play. Venusaur is my personal favorite of the two. Sleep feels so powerful in this format considering the limited amount of Sleep Powder immunities in combination with the lack of Safety Goggles. Not only that, but the most common Sleep users, Amoonguss and Jumpluff, aren't in the game. This makes Sleep feel less respectable in the builder, meaning teams are less prepped for it. This allows Venusaur to come in and sleep multiple Pokemon. With the Sleep nerf this will likely fall off later on as Safety Goggles and Tera are added (presumably), it is strong now and I encourage people to use it so you get destroyed by Overcoat Kommo-o. Aside from Sleep, Venusaur is able to dish out solid damage with Solar Beam and Sludge Bomb, which I've personally been liking over Earth Power but will probably change since Venusaur struggles so hard into Steel-types. Earth Power also targets down Glimmora which is really nice. Also, with 2 SPs into HP, Venusaur always lives Dual Wingbeat from Talonflame as long as it's not Sharp Beak (this is important because Venusaur should always be running Focus Sash; so should Whimsicott, hence the need to decide).

Whimsicott is the far more consistent option and the one that I expect will be more popular as time goes on. Tailwind is just really, really strong right now, especially in the early format where getting the speed advantage often dictates who wins the game due to the offensive nature of early meta teams. On top of this, Moonblast is very valuable into the Dragon-types that Charizard-Y struggles with, most notably Garchomp but also extended to Dragonite and it's Mega Evolution, Hydreigon, and Dragapult. Encore is also stupid valuable. Tailwind forces defensive play from the opponent, such as Fake Out and more importantly Protect. Encore locks the foe into Protect and allows the Charizard-Y user to ignore that slot and target down the other. I've thought of Taunt before maybe to shut down Sinistcha though it feels like a non-issue with Charizard-Y. The only other move I've tried over Encore or Protect (the last move on Whimsicott) is Fake Tears. I figured that since it works with Mega Gengar it could work with Charizard-Y. It works fine but for my playstyle, I personally go with Protect since I like having the option to slow things down to my pace instead of speeding things up so fast that the game falls out of my control.

Step 3: Incineroar Prevention Squad
This is the final step to building your Charizard-Y team (at least from what I've tested; there are so many other ways to build this but this is how I did it). I think Garchomp is pretty much a must add and the last two are rather flexible. Garchomp and Charizard-Y have such great synergy together. Earthquake + Heat Wave pins pretty much the whole format, outside of Washtom and Oventom. I would say Talonflame avoids this pin too but its so frail that it drops to two Heat Waves anyways (Hydreigon does also avoid this double spread pin!). I would run Choice Scarf on Venusaur compositions to compensate for the lack of Tailwind, though on Whimsicott teams I like White Herb to deny Intimidate from Incineroar. You can also just use Choice Scarf if your more comfortable with that which is what I've been doing because I'm too lazy to transfer in a second Garchomp.

Kingambit and Farigiraf are flex slots. Kingambit is simple; Defiant to punish Incineroar + it acts as an additional Sand answer when using Low Kick. If not, it is additional support into the Ghost Megas, aka Froslass and Gengar. It is also just a really powerful Pokemon and helps into Basculegion, a problem for Charizard-Y. Farigiraf is here to deny Fake Out and keep momentum up. It also provides a Trick Room mode for when I want to surprise opponents. Both slots can certainly be changed though. I've thought of a secondary Mega like Kangaskhan over Kingambit, where you bring Kangaskhan + Whimsicott/Farigiraf + Garchomp + Sneasler, or maybe even running Dragapult somewhere? These are the slots you can experiment with a lot I think, and I'd like to see what others come up with.

3. Teams + Bad Matchups for Sun​

To start the final segment of this essay-like post, I'd like to post two teams that I've used.
----- (main team I used)
----- (more experimental)

Sorry I gotta gatekeep the EVs, I plan to enter tours with these in the future, but I will drop full pastes on a future date. 1st team can also use Farigiraf over Incineroar.

I don't think I need to go too in depth on these teams, so I'll skip right over to the bad matchups and how to play against them.

+ - This combination is a huge part of the justification for Sneasler and Garchomp on Sun. Charizard-Y loses the Weather War more often than not. This means you need to remove Tyranitar, but then it should be a lot easier to win.

For Venusaur Compositions:​

• Try bringing some combination of Sneasler, Charizard-Y, Venusaur / Garchomp, and Kingambit / Garchomp. A Trick Room mode could also work though I'd only bring that in game 2 or 3 in a best-of-3 if they don't expect it.
• Leading Sneasler is likely the way to go. In my experience, most players feel inclined to lead Tyranitar to fend of Charizard-Y early. For this, leading Sneasler + Garchomp. Note that I highly recommend bringing Garchomp. This counters a lead with Tyranitar + Excadrill and does fine into anything else. If you expect something like Corviknight in the lead, Charizard-Y could be alright. I like to try and bait Excadrill into protecting and surprise KOing Tyranitar. Basically, you likely want to hope Excadrill Protects Turn 1 and Close Combat the Tyranitar. If you think they'll attack instead, you can always just Protect with Sneasler and Earthquake or, if you predict Tyranitar to swap, Earthquake and swap Sneasler into Charizard-Y.
• From there you really want to remove the Tyranitar and try to keep Garchomp nice and healthy. If you manage to win the weather war, it is very likely that Venusaur could bring a lot of value as well, although it may be a risky bring. If you have Kingambit it could be nice to bring it as well, especially if you have Low Kick.

Whimsicott compositions follow essentially the same flow chart, just without Venusaur. Tailwind isn't really necessary since most of your Pokemon are naturally faster anyways.

& - These two kinda KO Charizard-Y even through the Sun. They are luckily rather easy to deal with though. Kingambit KOs either with Sucker Punch and Venusaur removes either with Solar Beam. Getting Speed Control up with Whimsicott and chipping them with Garchomp will allow Charizard-Y's Solar Beam to KO as well.

- For Venusaur compositions in particular, this is a difficult matchup. If using Farigiraf, definitely try and get Trick Room up and/or chip it with Psychic. The main thing to do here is deny set up oppurtunity; always be applying pressure on it.

+ + - Very hard core to break. Rain weakens Charizard-Y significantly. You should play this similar to Kommo-o. Apply consistent pressure on them and try and pin switches. If you get trapped early on, deal as much damage as possible tbh; one read can really make a dent in their plans (i.e. calling a swap and KOing). Additionally, be sure to keep Pokemon alive in case an ending where the opposing Perish Song user could win. Having 3 alive will pretty much guarantee that you win the end.

goodbye now

 

[Rotengen]

From first testings, I think two Megas are really underrated into the current meta.

- Very good speed tier. I like it because it's probably one of the best checks to , and acts as a very good "secondary" Mega to patch up bad matchups. Dark/Water/Ice is very hard for any mons to switch into, especially for most of 's rain teammates. Also can help with in a pinch.

- Unironically very powerful. Burn is one of the most situational but still broken statuses in the game. It survives and takes a hit from a large amount of physical attackers like ,,, and can hardwall them from most of the match. It can even take hits from , , , and take away a lot of pressure from the rest of the team. Moody is broken as always and resulted in a lot of game wins where I got the +2 boost to speed or def.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsvgc2026regma-2580474311-tw871wgpictick14x9b48dve8nxhf6ipw <- case in point

Also, is very good, to nobody's surprise. With so little fake out users left, is a really good speed control in a meta with a lot of fast Pokemon. Dire Claw is very good into the broken , and CC is great into , and .

is suprisingly useable without mega because of it's great matchups into two other good tailwind setters and with fake out support.

All in all, great meta. I still dislike how strong is, and is a little bit on the strong side, but I prefer this to Reg H because of no ghold, nerfed arch, and nerfed tr because the bears no longer exist. Personally, I also like the removal of Covert Cloak, because Fake Out now feels more reliable in Bo1, allowing for better game plans.

 

[ant4456]

All in all, great meta. I still dislike how strong is,

to be honest this mon is not nearly as much of an issue as the weather teams in the builder. while its bulk on paper seems pretty solid it basically dies to any combination of two physical attacks even through intimidates with bulk, which, if you invest in bulk, in my opinion it's too slow for how aggressive this meta is

you need to have redirection and pivot it very well and then never let it get Fake Out'd or else it's probably going to die, and even when you get turns I'd argue the best teamstyle is the one that leads with two resists to Fairy (Sun)

Side tangent: As someone who was brought up as a singles player I've always been confused by how VGC side of things tends to fucking hate strong Fairies. Whenever I see someone casual or competitive that thinks Fairies are the most broken type, it's almost always a doubles player/VGC youtuber viewer and it's a bizarre effect to me, and this metagame experience makes me feel no different. There are so many good Steels(okay to be honest maybe not that one rn there's like 3 lol), Fires and Poisons that you were already going to run on these teamstyles.

Running a Balance Mega Floette I think I've gotten more value by just playing my Mega Floette like a pussy and never clicking an attack button than anything, because it's really threatening but often if I use it to actually attack in the early game it's going to just die. If Mega Floette is using an attack in the first two turns you've probably fucked up your positioning, or you've done a good job of baiting it and will kill it.

I think Mega Floette gets a lot of value by being threatening and patient on a Balance core where you try and limit the physical checks hard, dance around them until Dazzling Gleam +/or a crucial Fake Out/Rage Powder gives Mega Floette a turn and lock them out. It's committal though because despite all the limitations of Mega Floette, running the teams that support it usually mean that if it does die and you fuck up the game can be lost on the spot. 70% of the time I go for a read with Mega Floette it's a turn where I immediately regret the second I lock it in because, if the read goes wrong Mega Floette 100% just dies.

My feeling is Mega Floette is one of the only mons to build Balance around as it's one of the only things in the metagame that makes running a lot of defensive pieces together feel cohesive. But it's also a committal mon and even if you can use your supports to make it awkward for the physical attackers and trade out key pieces, if Mega Floette gets low it can already be GG at Turn 2. I think every well-built team in the metagame will already have the tools to defeat Floette.

This is the team I made for it, pretty simple stuff it's mostly the most popular partners with Mega Floette and my choices of moves

I think the main choice is really which of Incineroar vs Sinistcha get the Lefties but I like Occa more because it's able to use one switch on say, Incineroar without *as* much fear. If you get speed control you can always Strength Sap to heal off of most things. Rotom Wash's item feels the most whatever, I'll probably switch it Thunderbolt > Discharge at some point because with its weakened spread it doesn't do damage to rain mons as much as I'd like. Aerodactyl is the goat.

Maybe this mon is more directly threatening on another teamstyle, Pikalytics says around a quart are pairing it on Rain which checks out, but at least in my experience and what I've seen it is a bomb that you can't just click buttons with willynilly but creates awkward situations for the opponent, where there are definitely core threats and Megas that can. I think it's mostly fine.

 

[BlueRay]

In general, I encourage everyone to share their thoughts and experiences with the metagame in this thread. Everyone's got a different approach to building and playing a team, leading to different discoveries and perspectives, regardless of your level of skill and experience. For instance, I haven't considered Clas's idea of running Choice Scarf Sneasler before. It certainly sounds interesting and so, I will give it a try when I find the opportunity.

For now, I want to express my sheer joy of seeing more comments on the metagame. Furthermore, I want to talk about Mega Meganium a little bit more. Since I've made it to about 2,000 in the Master Ball ranking so far by using a Sand Mega Meganium team, I feel more comfortable sharing my teambuilding idea and experiences.

Mega Meganium hates facing Sun teams as Mega Charizard and Venusaur can easily overwhelm is with one or two of their STABs. Which is why I decided to run a Sand team once again. I've considered Rain before to weaken the Fire weakness but as pengu has already pointed out, Sun teams don't have such a difficult time against Rain. So, including another Pokémon like Mega Meganium on Rain seems to only worsen the Sun match-up in theory with not much pay-off, I feel. But I could be wrong since I haven't given Rain Meganium a try yet. In any case, Sand teams can benefit greatly from Mega Meganium and vice versa. First of all, Sand teams hate facing Corviknight and certain Water Pokémon like Gyarados or Rotom-W, which is where Mega Meganium comes in; Weather Ball threatens any Fire weak Pokémon while Dazzling Gleam and Solar Beam exert a lot of offensive pressure. Its dualtype is good into Garchomp, which is also a threat to Sand teams as it severely weakens Tyranitar and Excadrill. In turn, Tyranitar and Excadrill handle threats Mega Meganium wants to stay away from, such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard-Y, Mega Gengar, Sneasler, etc. For what is worth, if you cleverly use Meganium, its base form can OHKO Mega Charizard-Y with Weather Ball in Sand and against Incineroar it's a 2HKO or 3HKO depending on item and bulk investment. So, base Meganium is not too passive and opens the room for double Mega.

Which brings me to my next Pokémon, which is Mega Chandelure. Normally, I often Mega-Evolve Meganium and use base Chandelure more for its Fire immunity and Trick Room--a major annoyance for Sun teams--, but there are cases where it can be very useful to Mega-Evolve Chandelure. For instance, you pressure Mega Gengar and Froslass even behind Substitute and screens respectively. Chandelure doesn't really miss an item due to the item limitation. And whatever threat it would rather avoid can be redirected by Clefable. Between Trick Room and Excadrill's Sand Rush, the team can adapt to opposing Tailwind or Trick Room teams.

Clefable is very important to have if you want to keep your attackers alive. I've been running Lum Berry since I hate status conditions--notably Sleep Powder and Dire claw from evil Venusaur and Sneasler--, but it's certainly possible to run a berry to weaken Poison damage. Clefable can naturally be EVed to survive Sludge Bom from Mega Gengar or Dire Claw from Adamant Sneasler. So, it's not too important, but it can be nice to have if your opponent can't faint Clefable by double-targeting it in one turn. I don't like Sitrus Berry because Sneasler and its ally will usually KO you in one turn. Better reserve this item for someone else who might benefit from it on the team.

Gyarados further improves the Sun and Rain match-up with its disruptive set (Intimidate + Thunder Wave) and solid damage output. Water Pokémon have to watch out for Power Whip. It synergizes defensively and offensively well enough with Excadrill who spams earthquake on my team. As Grassy Terrain is no longer popular at the moment--there is no natural Grassy Terrain setter, after all--, it is easy and refreshing to do so.

Excadrill has a great match-up into Mega Floette and with SD, you can punish players trying to stall out Sand turns or weaken you with Intimidate. I've already mentioned Earthquake before, which is useful to have since you ignore redirection. Very relevant when you face Mega Floette alongside Maushold and / or Sinistcha.

Tyranitar is mandatory on basically any Sand team; it enables Sand Rush Excadrill and pressures Mega Charizard-Y. Rock, Dark, Protect, and then you can decide between Low Kick or Ice Punch. Low Kick is useful to have if you want to pressure opposing Tyranitar for Chandelure but I've also had moments where I wished I had Ice Punch while I was in Trick Room to better handle Garchomp. It's very important to know how to lead and pilot the team. Foregoing one of these moves means you sometimes need to change your approach to a game, like making sure certain Pokémon are present during a battle, such as Meganium to pressure Garchomp more easily. Furthermore, Incineroar can sometimes be a little bit annoying because it walls Chandelure, pressures Meganium, and can weaken Tyranitar and Excadrill's damage output. So, sometimes, it's good to preserve Clefable and redirect Parting Shot, for instance. Also, if you know you are going to Mega-Evolve Chandelure, there's usually no need to bring Meganium into the battle. Its base form is weak, after all, and heavily reliant on its Mega form.

The team didn't struggle much during the ladder; it was relatively easy to get several 10/11 win streaks with it in Master Ball. I never felt like threats like Mega Charizard-Y, Incineroar, Mega Gengar, Sneasler, etc. were too insurmountable for Mega Meganium to face. It often pulled its weight in a battle, and that's such a huge upgrade from base Meganium. Sure, the metagame isn't friendly to it but for any Meganium fan, I really believe there's a lot of potential with its Mega form. In this case, I see it shining on Sand where it patches up certain weaknesses, like Corviknight, Aegislash, Garchomp, Water Pokémon, etc. Hopefully, people will continue exploring Mega Meganium.