Reliable Tyrannitar/sandstorm counter

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Ryanide

By the way, the title is a question, not a statement.

I'm sure everybody knows how Tyrannitar and its sand stream ability really screws over focus sash users, and since focus sash can be quite beneficial to a lot of things (Swords Dance Weavile for example) I've been looking for the best Pokemon to weather change and counter a Tyrannitar sanstorm team lead.

Most of the Sandstorm teams I've faced (although I've only faced a few) do lead with Tyrannitar. I would think that it'd be a better choice to lead with something a bit more scout-ish, but I guess the instant sand stream will give the team an advantage right off the bat.

At first I thought Kingdra might be useful for this role, seeing as it's quite fast after a rain dance, can survive a fair hit from Tyrannitar, and can hit back special and hard with surf. It also can carry ice beam to deal with Garchomp, which is often found alongside Tyrannitar on sandstorm teams.

Kingdra@wet rock
timid nature
swift swim

-surf
-rain dance
-ice beam
-filler (dragon pulse perhaps)

However, after browsing through the D/P analysis pages, I found another Pokemon who can do this well, if not better.

Floatsel@focus sash
jolly nature
swift swim

-waterfall
-rain dance
-bulk up/ice fang/crunch/surf
-brick break

Automatically, it's faster than Tyrannitar at the start of the match. Sandstream is irrelevant the moment it uses rain dance on the first turn, and if Tyrannitar attacks, it'll hang on with its focus sash. Hopefully though, the Tyrannitar will dragon dance or taunt, expecting you to switch out or try a bulk up/baton pass, in which case you've already just about beat it. Brick break will almost KO on most Tyrannitars, and even waterfall will do quite a bit of damage. Even after a dragon dance, Floatsel will still be faster.

bulk up is there if you're good with prediction. If you think the Tyrannitar is expecting brick break and is going to switch, you can use this to put Floatzel in good sweeping condition. Ice fang can deal a blow to Garchomp, although it's not guaranteed to KO. Surf is there in case you want to invest some EVs into special attack to combat the usual members of a sandstorm team, which often have very high defenses but low special defense. (I'm looking at YOU Rhyperior!) And Floatzel's special attack is not *that* bad, and it can certainly scrape past as passable with a boost from rain dance. Crunch may not be the better option, but it's still an option nonetheless.

There are only a few scenarios that can amount from this:

1) Floatsel takes a hit from T-tar and goes down to 1 HP while wiping out sandstorm, then sorely damages Tyrannitar on the next turn before fainting to a second attack. Hey, you've almost KOed Tyrannitar and set up one of the least beneficial weather effects for a sandstorm team.

2) Tyrannitar Dragon Dances/taunts on the first turn and then attacks on the second, leaving Floatsel in 1 HP in good attacking condition and will be damaged by brick break/waterfall. Tyrannitar will be forced to switch out and will be quite prone later on in the match. In the mean time, no sandstorm.

3) Tyrannitar attacks the first turn and then switches out on the next. Unless it cleverly predicts and sends in a ghost type (which aren't so common on sandstorm teams), you'll get a free hit with brick break and will guarantee outspeed and hit on the next turn. Even if it is a ghost, you can damage it with whatever move you have. Crunch is good for this one situation I suppose. Mind you, this is the worst situation seeing as there's still a full-health Tyrannitar that will appear later on in the match, and Floatsel is almost done.

4) Tyrannitar switches right away, leaving a full health Floatsel with rain dance up and in good sweeping condition.

5) Tyrannitar has a choice scarf (wth?) or that berry that reduces fighting damage. (even more wth?) This could put a spanner in the works , but these items are uncommon on T-Tar anyway.

Possibly the biggest problem with this is that Floatsel IS probably going to take a hit, and Tyrannitar won't be guaranteed to be KOed or even damaged in the situation of scenario 3 and 4. And this means that the sandstorm threat isn't entirely defeated.

Can anyone make improvements to this strategy? Or is Kingdra just an overall better choice for this role?
 
Mr.Darkrai said:
What about a Reversling Lucario. It would kill OHKO Tyranitar and survive a Sand Stream.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the point of this is not to KO tyrannitar, but to damage Tyrannitar AND get rid of sand stream. While Lucario is great at KOing Tyrannitar, he doesn't exactly have any meaningful way to blow away the sandstorm.

This Floatsel doesn't have to be used on Tyrannitar I suppose, but it's still a great way to get rain dance off and use it effectively.
 
Why does the weather changer have to be the one to KO Tyranitar?

I think you would be better off using a solid physical Tyranitar counter and keeping a weather changing move on a Pokémon that's unlikely to go down before the opposing 'tar. :/
 
Well I guess the point of this set is to deal with Tyrannitar and its sandstorm right off the bat before you have to meet any other sandstorm-boosted rock types.

A hail Froslass is kind of redundant, because unless you're running an ice team, your focus sash users will still be ruined by hail. Froslass also doesn't get that massive speed boost from hail that Floatsel does from rain dance.
 
If you're gonna make a topic about something at least.. spell it right... (Tyranitar)

This is sort of silly. If you want a "reliable" Tyranitar counter use Dugtrio; nobody is going Dragon Dance or Taunt something that can beat it.

* Floatzel isn't going to sweep a team with a Rain Dance from the very start
* Nobody is going to switch Garchomp in on a water pokemon
* etc
 
We already have very reliable T-Tar counters in the form of Intimidate Hitmontop. OHKOs with Close Combat, huge as heck amounts of damage from Mach Punch, intimidate the attack and 2x resist his most powerful moves.

Now something I'd like is something that can kill Hippowdon, who is bulky enough to survive super-effective hits, switch out, come in safely, slack off the damage and re-init the Sandstorm. Granted, I guess you can simply say goodbye to your focus sash users when hippowdon is on the opponent's team...
 
As mentioned on it's analysis, Hariyama makes a good weather changer since TTar usually won't stay in against it and Hariyama can switch in without a whole lot of risk.
 
The thing here is that Floatsel can actually use Rain Dance, STAB RD Waterfall hurts. Rain Dance on a Poke like that not only cancels sandstorm but acts as a +2 Speed and +1 Attack on water moves, not to mention a -1 Attack to Fire which probably has its uses too.

If Swords Dance is viable (with or without a sash) then how is Rain Dance which arguably is a better Dragon Dance in many cases not viable.

Sure Rain Dance teams and stuff like Thunderdancing is somewhat gimmick (aka sucks with no rain), but when RD is used as a stat upper I don't see why its frowned upon so much.
 
The problem is, however, they can just switch Tyranitar out, and even if you do KO Tyranitar, they could possibly have Hippowdon waiting in the wings as well.
 
I don't think anyone would use any Fire moves on Floatzel. And no matter how much STAB RD Waterfall hurts it won't OHKO everything. This is more of an endgame thing. And if you are going to go for a Rain Dance sweep, you might as well use WEt Rock
 
Breloom is a much better counter to Tyranitar. It have STAB Grass and Fighting moves, can hide behind a sub and take a hit while still being protected in the sub if you give it enough hp/def EVs. The thing about Breloom is that he can't take on Garchomp. Poliwrath however can take Tyranichomp, but he doesn't pack as much of a punch as Breloom.

And the thing that sucks about your Floatzel is that it is going to be at one HP and Skarmory/Hippowdon could come in lay the rocks, and roar/WW you out. Or Ttar could just switch out and come back in.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of removing Bronzong's weakness. Also if they switch out you just got a free setup, granted its not much of a counter, but you get a free switchin for your SD Weavile though.
 
This topic needs to be closed. The OP of this thread needs to lurk a bit more before jumping into making topics.
 
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