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Research Group #2 - Magmar, Lapras, Exeggutor
- Thread starter DTC
- Start date
- Status
Alright, so far my duel powder exeggutor hasnt done much, although it hasnt been used extensively. It can usually get off a sleep powder though, which of course is better than nothing. Harvest sitrus berry also annoys the shit out of people constantly though.
As for magmar, physical all-out attacker has been mediocre at best as well. Mach punch is pretty cool to pick off cinccino and such, and flare blitz gives it some spark for the two turns it's usually alive. But all in all i find myself wanting to use other things instead. After RG i will likely try amarillo's set, but for now i want that extra point because i missed out on last RG. :p
Finally, we get to lapras. Lapras is the only one of these i can honestly say has been great for me. I've been using a sub + 3 attacks lapras, and its been quite great. People probably were thinking that it was going to be a rain dance hydration thing going on, but lapras has just enough speed to outrun alot of the tiers big threats with investment (including golurk, exeggutor, and alomomola, all of which can easily be killed by lapras) when I set up a sub, people begin to think im running the dragon dance set, and bring in a physical wall, (alomomola) only to get nailed by one of my powerful special attacks.
All in all, Im loving lapras, and magmar/exeggutor have done fine, but not great. I should probably try some other sets, because im probably not using eggy right. Im thinking of changing it to basically the lumrest set, only with stun spore over sleep powder so i can outspeed more things.
As for magmar, physical all-out attacker has been mediocre at best as well. Mach punch is pretty cool to pick off cinccino and such, and flare blitz gives it some spark for the two turns it's usually alive. But all in all i find myself wanting to use other things instead. After RG i will likely try amarillo's set, but for now i want that extra point because i missed out on last RG. :p
Finally, we get to lapras. Lapras is the only one of these i can honestly say has been great for me. I've been using a sub + 3 attacks lapras, and its been quite great. People probably were thinking that it was going to be a rain dance hydration thing going on, but lapras has just enough speed to outrun alot of the tiers big threats with investment (including golurk, exeggutor, and alomomola, all of which can easily be killed by lapras) when I set up a sub, people begin to think im running the dragon dance set, and bring in a physical wall, (alomomola) only to get nailed by one of my powerful special attacks.
All in all, Im loving lapras, and magmar/exeggutor have done fine, but not great. I should probably try some other sets, because im probably not using eggy right. Im thinking of changing it to basically the lumrest set, only with stun spore over sleep powder so i can outspeed more things.
Magmar has been doing pretty well so far. He is a surprisingly good mixed attacker and usually kills after Stealth Rock damage. This is the set I've been using:
Magmar @Eviolite
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 162 Atk/94 SpA/252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
-Fire Blast
-Mach Punch
-ThunderPunch
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Magmar was very lucky to get Vital Spirit. It let's him come in on Amoonguss/Jumpluff/Exeggutor/Vileplume with ease and scare them away. 93 base speed is great, going past magic number 85. This let's it outspeed most neutral-natured pokes in the tier.
You're probably looking at the set and thinking, "What the hell? Why Hasty?" Let me explain.
Magmar is going mixed and therefore cannot have Adamant/Modest or Jolly/Timid. Lowering an offensive stat is completely pointless and makes him weaker. Hasty and 252 speed EVs allows it to outspeed most threats and pull off decent damage. Magmar's defense stat is awful and won't mind the drop. It shouldn't be taking physical attacks anyway. Fire Blast is the obvious STAB move of choice, so I don't think an explanation is needed. Mach Punch lets him finish off weakened pokes. Hidden Power Ice gives Magmar a way to beat Altaria, who will otherwise wall and then proceed to set up on him. Hidden Power Ice also damages incoming Grounds, such as Golurk.
For usefull partners, I've found Torterra to be a great teammate alongside Magmar. Torterra's good typing let's him come in on Rock and Ground-type moves, which fails to make a dent on his tough hide. Opposing Grass-types, Bugs, and Ice mons are taken care of by Magmar in return.
Alomomola is also a good partner for Magmar. It takes next to nothing from physical Water moves and can survive a hit from the special side. Alomomola completely walls Golurk and can shrug off the damage with Wish. Speaking of Wish, its support is very much appreciated and helps Magmar survive longer in a match.
Magmar @Eviolite
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 162 Atk/94 SpA/252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
-Fire Blast
-Mach Punch
-ThunderPunch
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Magmar was very lucky to get Vital Spirit. It let's him come in on Amoonguss/Jumpluff/Exeggutor/Vileplume with ease and scare them away. 93 base speed is great, going past magic number 85. This let's it outspeed most neutral-natured pokes in the tier.
You're probably looking at the set and thinking, "What the hell? Why Hasty?" Let me explain.
Magmar is going mixed and therefore cannot have Adamant/Modest or Jolly/Timid. Lowering an offensive stat is completely pointless and makes him weaker. Hasty and 252 speed EVs allows it to outspeed most threats and pull off decent damage. Magmar's defense stat is awful and won't mind the drop. It shouldn't be taking physical attacks anyway. Fire Blast is the obvious STAB move of choice, so I don't think an explanation is needed. Mach Punch lets him finish off weakened pokes. Hidden Power Ice gives Magmar a way to beat Altaria, who will otherwise wall and then proceed to set up on him. Hidden Power Ice also damages incoming Grounds, such as Golurk.
For usefull partners, I've found Torterra to be a great teammate alongside Magmar. Torterra's good typing let's him come in on Rock and Ground-type moves, which fails to make a dent on his tough hide. Opposing Grass-types, Bugs, and Ice mons are taken care of by Magmar in return.
Alomomola is also a good partner for Magmar. It takes next to nothing from physical Water moves and can survive a hit from the special side. Alomomola completely walls Golurk and can shrug off the damage with Wish. Speaking of Wish, its support is very much appreciated and helps Magmar survive longer in a match.
Magmar has been doing pretty well so far. He is a surprisingly good mixed attacker and usually kills after Stealth Rock damage. This is the set I've been using:
Magmar @Eviolite
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 162 Atk/94 SpA/252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
-Fire Blast
-Mach Punch
-ThunderPunch
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Magmar was very lucky to get Vital Spirit. It let's him come in on Amoonguss/Jumpluff/Exeggutor/Vileplume with ease and scare them away. 93 base speed is great, going past magic number 85. This let's it outspeed most neutral-natured pokes in the tier.
You're probably looking at the set and thinking, "What the hell? Why Hasty?" Let me explain.
Magmar is going mixed and therefore cannot have Adamant/Modest or Jolly/Timid. Lowering an offensive stat is completely pointless and makes him weaker. Hasty and 252 speed EVs allows it to outspeed most threats and pull off decent damage. Magmar's defense stat is awful and won't mind the drop. It shouldn't be taking physical attacks anyway. Fire Blast is the obvious STAB move of choice, so I don't think an explanation is needed. Mach Punch lets him finish off weakened pokes. Hidden Power Ice gives Magmar a way to beat Altaria, who will otherwise wall and then proceed to set up on him. Hidden Power Ice also damages incoming Grounds, such as Golurk.
For usefull partners, I've found Torterra to be a great teammate alongside Magmar. Torterra's good typing let's him come in on Rock and Ground-type moves, which fails to make a dent on his tough hide. Opposing Grass-types, Bugs, and Ice mons are taken care of by Magmar in return.
Alomomola is also a good partner for Magmar. It takes next to nothing from physical Water moves and can survive a hit from the special side. Alomomola completely walls Golurk and can shrug off the damage with Wish. Speaking of Wish, its support is very much appreciated and helps Magmar survive longer in a match.
You have some good points, for the most part, but I will disagree on you that Alomomola is an automatic safe switch on Golurk, which otherwise means that he's completely walled as you say. With some hazard support, Alomomola will risk getting 2HKO, assuming it's Choice Banded, though I suppose a 2-some (Torterra, Alomomola) can play around it rather well.
Also, Exeggutor isn't reliant on Sleep Powder as you think compared to the rest of the Grass types you've listed, moreso of its offensive prowess.
In terms of walls, Altaria and Audino are also viable counterparts, with Altaria's support from resistances and Heal Bell coming in handy, although the pair may struggle with Rock-types. Audino, despite being less efficient with resistances, still shares no weaknesses, and can support with both Heal Bell and Wish, as well as crippling Special attackers which can progress in spite of a burn with Thunder Wave.
I am still searching for a counterpart whose name does not start with the letter A.
I really meant that as being aimed at discussing physical sets.
In any case. SpeDef Magmar is doing pretty well, and Barrier helps in some cases. Perishtrap Lapras makes a friendly partner, and works pretty well. I may edit this later, but I have no time.
Exgeuttor is fun to abuse with sitrus. I'll do a more through post on two of the three in this group after I finish testing them. Now's kind of a bad time to do a research group TBH what with PS! continually crashing and PO being deader then disco.
Magmar is definitly another Metang though. Looks decent in theory but in practice can't do shit.
Create a set that uses Substitute | Restriction: It can't use Dragon Dance on the same set.
Why would you use sub on lapras and not DD. That's like doing foreplay as a slut then asking them to play monopoly.
Seriously these challenges this time around are garbage. Eggy doesn't set up sun to defensively abuse, Magmar using only physical attacks is folly at best, and eggy can abuse stun spore about as well as a republican can keep a promise. The only challenge that isn't shooting yourself in the foot is rain dance lapras and even then its kind of iffy.
Magmar is definitly another Metang though. Looks decent in theory but in practice can't do shit.
Create a set that uses Substitute | Restriction: It can't use Dragon Dance on the same set.
Why would you use sub on lapras and not DD. That's like doing foreplay as a slut then asking them to play monopoly.
Seriously these challenges this time around are garbage. Eggy doesn't set up sun to defensively abuse, Magmar using only physical attacks is folly at best, and eggy can abuse stun spore about as well as a republican can keep a promise. The only challenge that isn't shooting yourself in the foot is rain dance lapras and even then its kind of iffy.
Yeah, in the few matches I've played since this started, Stun Exeggutspore has been pretty fun. NyttyN's post made me laugh, but I'd have to disagree with his post about Eggy. I forgot how much fun it was to paralyze half an opponent's team, and with Harvest, Eggy JUST DOESN'T FUCKING DIE.
I haven't got a chance to see Lapras in much action yet. I think SubCurse would be somewhat interesting, and Lapras has a somewhat decent set of defensive stats, but little in terms of physical offense. Not sure how to really go about this.
I haven't got a chance to see Lapras in much action yet. I think SubCurse would be somewhat interesting, and Lapras has a somewhat decent set of defensive stats, but little in terms of physical offense. Not sure how to really go about this.
I say, these republicans must keep good promise.
I've been using Magmar on my main team, and he's been a nightmare for physical attackers, with Lava Plume, Flame Body, Barrier, and Confuse Ray, and lasts even longer with Heal Bell, Wish, and Stealth Rock support. He still holds his own on special attacks too, with the inherent Shuckle-esque Special Defense.
I have to say I don't agree with you on the last two. Magmar's a pretty good pokemon, and being able to force out Amoonguss without having to sack a mon to sleep, while being able to hit stuff with Will-O-Wisp as they switch in is definitely pretty good, so it's hardly unable to do something in practice. And Lapras has been doing really well for me. It takes special hits so well. Water Absorb is also pretty great. Substitute with a specially defensive set is useful since it blocks status and lets you stay in on a hit you wouldn't survive otherwise and hit the opponent with status or with an attacking move. So I'd say substitute definitely has a place outside of the DD set.
I could type up something about countering these three, but only if DTC doesn't mind.
I think any discussion on the Pokemon at all is encouraged. Go for it.
Okay.
I'll edit my work into this post so I'm not spamming the thread.
Magmar
Fire
Flame Body/Vital Spirit
65|95|57|100|85|93
Against Magmar, Low Kick and Grass Knot have a base power of 60.
The first thing that can be expected of Magmar, above all else, is the use of the Eviolite, bringing its Defense to a maximum of 351 and its Special Defense to as high as 443.
While Magmar has evidently high defenses, the capacity to burn both directly and through Flame Body, and access to the surprisingly useful Barrier and Clear Smog, it has some very fundamental weaknesses.
Magmar has no form of health regeneration whatsoever without Wish support.
Magmar is horribly vulnerable to entry hazards and poison. It can be worn down quickly and forced to switch to Heal Bell/Wish support.
Other Fire-types can come in on it without the threat of being burned, and Ludicolo can hurt it badly while resisting ThunderPunch and possibly having Own Tempo.
Floatzel can deal heavy damage to Magmar if it isn't set up, but can barely touch it after Barrier.
Altaria is effective, resisting Lava Plume and having Heal Bell and Roost while it chips away with its attack of choice.
Carracosta can tank Magmar reasonably well, and deal damage even if burned.
Camerupt is a big one, immune to burns, resisting Lava Plume, and being completely immune to ThunderPunch while basically forcing a switch with a menacing STAB Earth Power.
Common Moves:
Lava Plume
Confuse Ray
Barrier
Mach Punch
Clear Smog
Flamethrower
Psychic
Cross Chop
Screech
ThunderPunch
Will-O-Wisp
Amarillo asked for my Magmar, so here it is.
Magmar@Eviolite
Serious Nature (Neutral)
Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
Lava Plume
Barrier
Confuse Ray
ThunderPunch/Clear Smog
One thing: Eviolite doesn't multiply its Base Stats by 1.5. It multiplies the actual stat by 1.5, and that 'base stat spread' doesn't reflect Magmar's bulk accurately. Actually, depending on the investment, its defenses are higher than 65/85/127. Still, I really wonder if fully defensive Magmar is really as good as you're making it out to be.
First, the main thing is that you actually haven't posted the actual set you're using with no slashes. You seem to mention Barrier and Confuse Ray, which btw are both poor moves, you don't explicitly state what other two moves are. If we are to have an actual discussion, it may be better if we can have all four moves and your spread!
Secondly, you mention Flame Body, and then you mention how it can use Vital Spirit to counter Amoonguss's sleep! Well, the fact that Earthquake + Rock Blast (the two main physical moves aimed at Magmar) are non-contact, it may be obvious that you can't use two abilities at the same time. If anything, you need to add Will-O-Wisp to your list of useful support moves and use that instead of Barrier or Flame Body. Flame Body's ok, but Barrier is just terrible. Well, I haven't used Barrier Magmar, so maybe it might be godly for whatever reason, but defensive boosting in general is a bad, bad strategy if it doesn't come with an offensive boost, and I've never really seen such strategy ever succeed.
Finally, let's say your Magmar is hard to kill, but doesn't change the fact that you can set up all over it. Hazards, boosting moves, whatever be it. It's weak to hazards, it has no recovery, and no way to heal status without Heal Bell support. At the very least, it's too easy to beat down on.
First, the main thing is that you actually haven't posted the actual set you're using with no slashes. You seem to mention Barrier and Confuse Ray, which btw are both poor moves, you don't explicitly state what other two moves are. If we are to have an actual discussion, it may be better if we can have all four moves and your spread!
Secondly, you mention Flame Body, and then you mention how it can use Vital Spirit to counter Amoonguss's sleep! Well, the fact that Earthquake + Rock Blast (the two main physical moves aimed at Magmar) are non-contact, it may be obvious that you can't use two abilities at the same time. If anything, you need to add Will-O-Wisp to your list of useful support moves and use that instead of Barrier or Flame Body. Flame Body's ok, but Barrier is just terrible. Well, I haven't used Barrier Magmar, so maybe it might be godly for whatever reason, but defensive boosting in general is a bad, bad strategy if it doesn't come with an offensive boost, and I've never really seen such strategy ever succeed.
Finally, let's say your Magmar is hard to kill, but doesn't change the fact that you can set up all over it. Hazards, boosting moves, whatever be it. It's weak to hazards, it has no recovery, and no way to heal status without Heal Bell support. At the very least, it's too easy to beat down on.
So, I haven't been able to net many official NU matches, but I've been trying to test my Pokemon on Pokemon Online's old v.1 beta server, and I've had a few fun results. Exeggutor has definitely been the most fun to use. At this point I think I like Stun Spore as much as Sleep Powder, because even though it doesn't completely incapacitate one of the opponent's Pokemon it can still cripple multiple with paralysis. The set I posted earlier for Eggy is still the one I'm using, and while I haven't gotten a chance to abuse the para-flinch chance I set up with it, I've easily been able to abuse Stun Spore + Substitute + Harvest Sitrus Berry. I definitely suggest that some of you guys test it out as well (especially the more talented players that might be able to make the set better).
Edited the Magmar analysis so it's less ridiculous. Thanks to Amarillo for the reality check.
Amnesia Gorebyss strong.
I've used some Exeggutor in the sun. It likes the Synthesis boost but honestly I prefer passive effects like Hydration or possibly even Harvest. But Heat Rock is necessary unless you are just using Sun as a one-off kind of thing and aren't using an actual sun team. Sort of like Kingdra in UU.
I haven't been been able to get into anything at all since it first went down unfortunately.
*Edit
First Impressions with Lapras
My Careful Nature Leftovers Lapras took two HP Electrics from a +2 Gorebyss while paralyzed. And at +1 +1 from the curse, 2HKO'd it back with Avalanche. It was the only thing that prevented Gorebyss from sweeping my team.
Very useful these first three matches, but that was the standout moment.
The person forfeited, but I went 5-0 basically with Lapras sweeping half his team before he gave up knowing he couldn't beat lapras.
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-nu3529
*second edit
I've play 15 matches today so far, and Lapras has won me six of them almost single handily, the sheer bulk on the special side makes non stab super effective attacks, even at +2 easy to tank, water absorb trolls Gorebyss. And the slow but steady pace of curse is intimidating to face. Waterfall and Avalanche provide great super effective and neutral coverage, and rest obviously allows me to keep on fighting, sometimes allowing me even with the 2 turn wait, to stall entire teams.
*Edit
First Impressions with Lapras
My Careful Nature Leftovers Lapras took two HP Electrics from a +2 Gorebyss while paralyzed. And at +1 +1 from the curse, 2HKO'd it back with Avalanche. It was the only thing that prevented Gorebyss from sweeping my team.
Very useful these first three matches, but that was the standout moment.
The person forfeited, but I went 5-0 basically with Lapras sweeping half his team before he gave up knowing he couldn't beat lapras.
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-nu3529
*second edit
I've play 15 matches today so far, and Lapras has won me six of them almost single handily, the sheer bulk on the special side makes non stab super effective attacks, even at +2 easy to tank, water absorb trolls Gorebyss. And the slow but steady pace of curse is intimidating to face. Waterfall and Avalanche provide great super effective and neutral coverage, and rest obviously allows me to keep on fighting, sometimes allowing me even with the 2 turn wait, to stall entire teams.
Zarel posted. Whoever the DDoSer was is spamming again.
So, since I generally test before posting anything, I held back with posts in this thread so far while waiting for Pokemon Showdown to become active enough for said testing again. While the only Pokemon I used from the research week is Exeggutor, I believe I can form a good opinion on its effect in the current metagame.
Exeggutor is, simply put, fantastic right now. While I already used Specs Eggy on the last team I posted here, I went for a speedier approach this time, the set being Sunny Day Exeggutor. It can easily set up Sunny Day on a myriad of threats such as Braviary/Emboar/Sawk locked into a Fighting attack, Rock-types such as Golem, Probopass, Bastiodon and Regirock without Thunder Wave as well as Alomomola (since they're more likely to Protect or switch out instead of using Toxic), and begin wrecking havok or just sleep something. Very few Pokemon can stand up to its powerful attacks, which sting a lot even without any sort of boosting item, and the few Pokemon that can are crippled by sleep for the most part.
Chlorophyll is a great ability for Exeggutor, since it allows it to outspeed keythreats in the current metagame such as Swellow, Zangoose and Cinccino, and OHKO all of them after Stealth Rock damage. The coverage granted by its two STAB moves, Solarbeam and Psychic, is surprisingly good, as the only common Pokemon that resist both are Cacturne, Klang, Skuntank and Exeggutor itself. This allows it to comfortably run Sleep Powder alongside its STAB moves and Sunny Day which, as mentioned before, cripples most of its typical counters. All in all I can say that, while Specs Exeggutor has a lot of power, it pales in comparison to the use I got out of Sunny Day Exeggutor in the current metagame. Excellent Pokemon.
So while I said that I don't generally theorymon sets/Pokemon, one set in particular came to mind when I saw the challenge about "Defensive Sunny Day Exeggutor":
Exeggutor (F) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Toxic
- Rest
- Psychic
This set looks weird, but it's basically built around the fact that Exeggutor can Rest up to 100% in one turn and wake up thanks to Chesto Berry as long as Sun is up. It also beats most things immune to Toxic (bar Skuntank, Braviary and a few more) 1 on 1 thanks to its huge bulk. It's obviously suppsed to be used with Toxic Spikes as well as a good Skuntank lure (Destiny Bond Haunter or even Expert Belt Hidden Power Ground with Substitute come to mind), as it's heavily reliant on Toxic damage to wear down foes while it just rests of damage. To demonstate this things bulk, it is guaranteed to tank Cinccino's Choice Band U-turn at full health, which is one of the stronger physical attacks coming your way. I think this set has potential but it really doesn't fit my playstyle, so if someone wants to test it out I'd appreciate it.
Exeggutor is, simply put, fantastic right now. While I already used Specs Eggy on the last team I posted here, I went for a speedier approach this time, the set being Sunny Day Exeggutor. It can easily set up Sunny Day on a myriad of threats such as Braviary/Emboar/Sawk locked into a Fighting attack, Rock-types such as Golem, Probopass, Bastiodon and Regirock without Thunder Wave as well as Alomomola (since they're more likely to Protect or switch out instead of using Toxic), and begin wrecking havok or just sleep something. Very few Pokemon can stand up to its powerful attacks, which sting a lot even without any sort of boosting item, and the few Pokemon that can are crippled by sleep for the most part.
Chlorophyll is a great ability for Exeggutor, since it allows it to outspeed keythreats in the current metagame such as Swellow, Zangoose and Cinccino, and OHKO all of them after Stealth Rock damage. The coverage granted by its two STAB moves, Solarbeam and Psychic, is surprisingly good, as the only common Pokemon that resist both are Cacturne, Klang, Skuntank and Exeggutor itself. This allows it to comfortably run Sleep Powder alongside its STAB moves and Sunny Day which, as mentioned before, cripples most of its typical counters. All in all I can say that, while Specs Exeggutor has a lot of power, it pales in comparison to the use I got out of Sunny Day Exeggutor in the current metagame. Excellent Pokemon.
So while I said that I don't generally theorymon sets/Pokemon, one set in particular came to mind when I saw the challenge about "Defensive Sunny Day Exeggutor":
Exeggutor (F) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Toxic
- Rest
- Psychic
This set looks weird, but it's basically built around the fact that Exeggutor can Rest up to 100% in one turn and wake up thanks to Chesto Berry as long as Sun is up. It also beats most things immune to Toxic (bar Skuntank, Braviary and a few more) 1 on 1 thanks to its huge bulk. It's obviously suppsed to be used with Toxic Spikes as well as a good Skuntank lure (Destiny Bond Haunter or even Expert Belt Hidden Power Ground with Substitute come to mind), as it's heavily reliant on Toxic damage to wear down foes while it just rests of damage. To demonstate this things bulk, it is guaranteed to tank Cinccino's Choice Band U-turn at full health, which is one of the stronger physical attacks coming your way. I think this set has potential but it really doesn't fit my playstyle, so if someone wants to test it out I'd appreciate it.
Looks good overall, but is evidently better with a Lum Berry.
Although there is a point in Braviary as a counter, Braviary isn't immune to Toxic.
Zangoose fares very well, benefitting from poison or being immune to it, and it has access to X-Scissor.
Gardevoir can fare quite well with access to Signal Beam and resistance to Psychic, as well as Exeggutor's poor Special Defense.
Braviary can be managed though, especially with rocks and simple revenge killers. also, braviary isnt a "counter" because it never wants to switch into a psychic, even if you arnt running any spcA investment.
Anyways, my opinions havnt changed much on any of them, except the obvius that specs eggy fucking murders everything. But you already knew that.
Anyways, my opinions havnt changed much on any of them, except the obvius that specs eggy fucking murders everything. But you already knew that.
The problem with Lum Berry is the fact that you only generate a berry at the end of the turn; if Sun isn't up and you desperately need to Rest then there's the chance of your opponent using Toxic, consuming the Lum Berry, you using Rest, not getting a Lum Berry back through Harvest and subsequently you becoming a sitting duck. Anyway, most of the switch ins to that set are pretty easy to wear down thanks to no recovery (except Signal Beam Psychics and Roost Braviary I suppose), so I still see potential in it.
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