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Research Week #10 - Bastiodon, Rampardos, Glaceon, Leafeon
- Thread starter erisia
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Why not use Life Orb and Sheer Force? With Mold Breaker, it can hit Levitators, but the only Pokes that it would worry about not hitting properly without Mold Breaker would be Eelektross (only if it's really set up some Coils), and lol-Lunatone/Solrock. Then use Rock Slide over Stone Edge so you have higher accuracy, and that it's boosted by Sheer Force, which can still have that "surprise" of not running a Choiced set. Completely theorymoning here, but I feel like Sheer Force would be much more viable over Mold Breaker since there aren't many major Pokes it would need to worry about.
One of the main advantages of Mold Breaker is that it allows Rampardos to OHKO Probopass and Bastiodon through Sturdy, preventing them from setting up Stealth Rock if they stay in; a feat that not many other Pokemon can accomplish. Hitting Weezing and Eelektross is also really helpful, situationally. I'd personally be more inclined to run Mold Breaker in this metagame, but Sheer Force also brings the advantage of a better STAB move and a more powerful Ice Beam, so they're both viable.
Because it is unreleased, do I need another reason?, and it is only good for ohkoing Torterra with Ice Beam 100% of time regardless of spread.
And this:
And considering this is what most people use to set up Stealth Rock it is worth it.
Well technically it can't even OHKO Golem with its weak, Expert Belt boosted Earthquake. Guess it's good for Probopass and Bastiodon (even though they see way less usage than Golem).
252Atk Expert Belt Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Golem (Neutral): 90% - 107% (273 - 324 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 43% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Expert Belt Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Golem (Neutral): 75% - 89% (273 - 324 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Expert Belt Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Golem (Neutral): 90% - 107% (273 - 324 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 43% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Expert Belt Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Golem (Neutral): 75% - 89% (273 - 324 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Rampy
I tested Rampy for a few hours last night, and the biggest draw back that I can see with him is simply getting him to live long enough to be relevant.
He's, by all definitions a glass cannon. If you can get him in safely, and he's scarfed...You win. If not...Well...GG. He's miserable against rain teams too. They just utterly destroy him thanks to swift swim.
I'm not the most experienced out there, but I felt like on games where I got him in and he did his thing...I was already handedly winning the match anyway. It is fun OHKO most of the field though.
I tested Rampy for a few hours last night, and the biggest draw back that I can see with him is simply getting him to live long enough to be relevant.
He's, by all definitions a glass cannon. If you can get him in safely, and he's scarfed...You win. If not...Well...GG. He's miserable against rain teams too. They just utterly destroy him thanks to swift swim.
I'm not the most experienced out there, but I felt like on games where I got him in and he did his thing...I was already handedly winning the match anyway. It is fun OHKO most of the field though.
Well that's why you run Superpower on non-Rock Polish sets. :p
Having used both (not on this rw though) and I have to say Leafeon it's totally outclassed by Sawsbuck as a Swords Dancer. Yes, Leafeon it's bulkier and etc etc but it doesn't help much when you can't simply touch Tangela, Amoonguss, Garbodor, Rotom-S... which are on pretty much every team nowadays. At least Sawsbuck has Normal Stab and Megahorn so it has a chance of wrecking defensive pokemon.
Well, it was on the topic of the Rock Polish set really liking Mold Breaker for Sturdy (and Levitate) users and I just felt like pointing out that Rock Polish really shouldn't care about Sturdy all that much seeing how it can't OHKO the Pokemon that uses it the most.
Of course, anti lead/CB sets are a totally different story.
The physical bulk does really help against Pokemon such as Cinccino, Armaldo, and Piloswine. (note: Armaldo and Piloswine beat Sawsbuck, but not Leafeon.) Leafeon is a much better at subsd with its better bulk, no weakness to fighting (Sawk and Gurdurr), and Attack.
Also, Sawsbuck has little to no room for Megahorn, it struggles against Amoonguss anyways without Double-Edge (Which practically kills Sawsbuck if it has no time to use Horn Leech), Garbodor is not much of a threat at all to Leafeon, and Rotom-S can still take a lot of damage.
Plus, at the moment, the tier is mainly offensive. Leafeon has enough Defense to survive some attacks if it needs to; Sawsbuck does not.
They take different approaches to SD'ing; just because they're of the Grass-type and have Swords Dance doesn't mean that they are identical or attempt to sweep the same way.
But... but... then you'd be running two Special Attacks on a pokemon with 165 / 65 offenses. That's just not natural... D:
Nah, but seriously, Superpower OHKOes golem with an Adamant nature and a Life Orb anyways, and is generally more useful than Surf in that it can actually kill other things, such as Lickilicky and Miltank. Even for the Rock Polish set, I'd rather use Superpower since it actually lets you damage stuff OTHER than Golem, and you can use Superpower early game as a response to hazards before you start sweeping. Rock Polish / Stone Edge / Superpower / Ice Beam seems good enough, as Rampardos should be cleaning up with Stone Edge if it's going for a sweep, and the other moves are just situationally useful.
ok so Glaceon has mixed reviews from me so far. She has the power to absolutely decimate offensive teams, outside of Magmortar they can;t switch in at all. So if you get the opportunity to fire off a few attacks you can break through with ease. The problem is Glaceon's subpar speed stat leaves her outsped by the majority of offensive teams, meaning she can only revenge kill weak pokemon who can't hit her super-effectively. This list is a bit to small for my likings, so against offensive teams Glaceon hasn't been able to be incredibly useful.
Against stall the opposite is true, she can outspeed almost the whole team but can not deal enough damage to prominent members like Flareon and Tentacool(among others) so she can be defeated by these teams or just stalled out. She does better here than against offense purely because she can fire off attacks instead of ending up as fodder.
Balanced teams are where Glaceon shines, enough slow Pokemon to gain momentum, enough sweepers to demolish them. They don't enjoy switching-in on ice moves at all. This is where Glaceon shines and if your team struggles against more balanced teams she can be handy.
My peak so far hasn't been impressive(1303) so when/if I get to Silver i'll post a screenshot
Against stall the opposite is true, she can outspeed almost the whole team but can not deal enough damage to prominent members like Flareon and Tentacool(among others) so she can be defeated by these teams or just stalled out. She does better here than against offense purely because she can fire off attacks instead of ending up as fodder.
Balanced teams are where Glaceon shines, enough slow Pokemon to gain momentum, enough sweepers to demolish them. They don't enjoy switching-in on ice moves at all. This is where Glaceon shines and if your team struggles against more balanced teams she can be handy.
My peak so far hasn't been impressive(1303) so when/if I get to Silver i'll post a screenshot
Yeah I'll agree with Raseri. I wasn't specifically testing Glaceon for research week, but I built a team around a Sub / Ice Beam / HP Ground / Baton Pass Glaceon + SD Sawsbuck for kicks. Glaceon was really underwhelming in terms of power; not being able to 3hko Tentacool was pretty pathetic. It's also: slow, weak to all hazards, and did I mention it's really weak? Like only once I was able to sub and catch something like Emboar on the switch =/
Finally got to bronze rank. If anything, the time it took me to get there should be an indicator of how terrible my team is.
I've been running Ramp on my stallish team; I've loved the combo of Alomamola / Regice / Wartortle (still have Magmortar issues, though...) and Ramp fits in perfectly by getting rid of rocks early on if the opponent is stupid enough to keep their rockers in on it (which most are, unfortunately...). I still have hazard issues, though; I really miss the tentacool I used to run to get rid of tspikes, but wartortle can actually take magmortar's thunderbolts, putting me into a tough position.
Anyway, here's the ramp set I was using:
Rampardos (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SAtk / 224 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Surf
- Head Smash
- Hammer Arm
- Stealth Rock
As I've said before, Surf OHKOes Golem flat out with 20 SpA EVs, provided it doesn't run SpD EVs. The Speed is enough to outrun all Golem and also outruns a few nice things (neutral 0 EV base 80s etc.). Hammer Arm OHKOes Bastiodon / Lickilicky and is actually a surprisingly good coverage move. Head Smash is a move that has time and again impressed me. This thing does 44% to fucking Bastiodon. That's commendable. Granted, using it is pretty much a death wish most of the time (you WILL bring yourself into about 30% by using it on anything...), but it's kind of like a Rock-type Explosion. I don't think there's a mon in the game that it doesn't 2HKO.
I also briefly used Leafeon (before later switching it to miltank) in a defensive way, but I found that it... doesn't have the greatest defenses. Heal Bell was nice, but beyond that, it was pretty useless.
I've been running Ramp on my stallish team; I've loved the combo of Alomamola / Regice / Wartortle (still have Magmortar issues, though...) and Ramp fits in perfectly by getting rid of rocks early on if the opponent is stupid enough to keep their rockers in on it (which most are, unfortunately...). I still have hazard issues, though; I really miss the tentacool I used to run to get rid of tspikes, but wartortle can actually take magmortar's thunderbolts, putting me into a tough position.
Anyway, here's the ramp set I was using:
Rampardos (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SAtk / 224 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Surf
- Head Smash
- Hammer Arm
- Stealth Rock
As I've said before, Surf OHKOes Golem flat out with 20 SpA EVs, provided it doesn't run SpD EVs. The Speed is enough to outrun all Golem and also outruns a few nice things (neutral 0 EV base 80s etc.). Hammer Arm OHKOes Bastiodon / Lickilicky and is actually a surprisingly good coverage move. Head Smash is a move that has time and again impressed me. This thing does 44% to fucking Bastiodon. That's commendable. Granted, using it is pretty much a death wish most of the time (you WILL bring yourself into about 30% by using it on anything...), but it's kind of like a Rock-type Explosion. I don't think there's a mon in the game that it doesn't 2HKO.
I also briefly used Leafeon (before later switching it to miltank) in a defensive way, but I found that it... doesn't have the greatest defenses. Heal Bell was nice, but beyond that, it was pretty useless.
I've been playing with bulky Leafeon on various alts, passing Substitutes and SDs all around. I tried to play to its strengths that it has over Sawsbuck (namely, much better physical bulk), so I was actually using a really slow variant without much thought to Speed. It does do a number on Golem and other similar Rock-types (I have it EVed so 0 Atk Regirock never breaks its Substitute with Stone Edge) and makes a surprisingly good partner for Emboar, since they kinda go back and forth on one another's counters. I'll probably build a better team and focus more on laddering later but I'm really liking what I'm getting out of Leafeon thus far.
So what about Bastiodon guys? I understand that Golem is the more popular hazard setter out of the two, but the point of research week is to find the way that these lesser used Pokemon can shine in the metagame. I think that the Sturdy Metal Burst set should see more use, it's pretty unexpected and it can usually both get a kill and guarantee Stealth Rock. It's also one of the best pure phazers in the tier, since only a few specific attack types can deal damage to you, and you can just keep phazing opponents into hazards. Just have something like Garbodor set up Spikes (and have a Ground-immunity somewhere!) and you can go to town.
Posting here to say that I had a brief fling with Bastiodon. Although that quad fighting weak really hurts it as one of the tier's many resident birdwalls, it really is very useful for stall teams. Essentially, it works like regirock that swaps twave for roar, which may even be better if you're running spikes and tspikes-laden stall.
One other problem that it runs into is that it's weak as shit. Probopass at least has oddly nice STABs and good SE coverage (and also runs off the special side), Regirock has just flat out fantastic stats to begin with, Golem we all know, and hell, even Metang has a stronger and more accurate STAB move. In contrast, Bastiodon is so damn weak that about the only things its offensive moves are useful for are ninjask and butterfree lol
One other problem that it runs into is that it's weak as shit. Probopass at least has oddly nice STABs and good SE coverage (and also runs off the special side), Regirock has just flat out fantastic stats to begin with, Golem we all know, and hell, even Metang has a stronger and more accurate STAB move. In contrast, Bastiodon is so damn weak that about the only things its offensive moves are useful for are ninjask and butterfree lol
Which attack are you using? I run Iron Head and Metal Burst, and it has decent enough power.
Alt : AlexanderTheGreat
Pokémon : Rampardos-Leafeon
Pokémon : Rampardos-Leafeon
I'm pretty sure the Research Week is over by now lol.
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