Return'd

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Art by Litra.


Welcome to Return'd, where the move in the first slot has its base power determined by the happiness value, using the same formula as Return. Which basically means, if you have 255 happiness, the first move will have 102 base power! This opens up a world of possibilities such as better STABs, more reliable coverage moves, and making currently unviable low base power moves an appealing option with their useful secondary effects!

Info
- The move in the first slot has 102 base power if you have 255 happiness (which is the default on PS!)
- Status and multi-hit moves are not affected
- Moves that call other moves, such as Nature Power and Copycat, are not affected, unless you have the called move in the first slot
- Move accuracy does not change

Standard OU clauses and bans apply, as well as
- Mega Pinsir

Mechanics
- The following moves are not affected by base power changes in-game; they will work as normal:
Beat Up, Bide, Counter, Crush Grip, Dragon Rage, Electro Ball, Endeavor, Final Gambit, Fissure, Flail, Fling, Frustration, Grass Knot, Guillotine, Gyro Ball, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Horn Drill, Low Kick, Magnitude, Metal Burst, Mirror Coat, Natural Gift, Night Shade, Present, Psywave, Punishment, Return, Reversal, Seismic Toss, Sheer Cold, Sonic Boom, Spit Up, Super Fang, Trump Card, Wring Out
- Echoed Voice has fixed base powers
- Fury Cutter has a limit of 160 base power

Viable Moves
- STAB and coverage: Acrobatics, Ancient Power, Clear Smog, Facade, Freeze-Dry, Hidden Power, Knock Off, Psyshock, Pursuit, Smack Down, Stored Power, U-turn, Volt Switch
- Priority: Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Feint, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave
- Secondary effects: Astonish, Chatter, Lava Plume, Lick, Nuzzle, Poison Fang, Scald, Smog, Twister
- Stat boosting: Charge Beam, Fell Stinger, Fiery Dance, Flame Charge, Power-Up Punch
- Stat dropping: Acid Spray, Bulldoze, Electroweb, Glaciate, Icy Wind, Low Sweep, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Razor Shell, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb
- Critical: Air Cutter, Drill Run, Frost Breath, Karate Chop, Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Razor Leaf, Shadow Claw, Slash, Storm Throw
- Draining: Absorb, Drain Punch, Draining Kiss, Giga Drain, Leech Life, Mega Drain, Parabolic Charge
- Trapping: Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Wrap

What move will you give this power to?

Playable on http://rom.psim.us

Code:
	{
		name: "Return'd",
		section: "Other Metagames",
		desc: ["&bullet; <a href=\"https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3566102/\">Return'd</a>"],

		ruleset: ['OU'],
		banlist: [],
		onModifyMovePriority: 2,
		onModifyMove: function (move, pokemon) {
			if (move.basePower > 0 && !move.multihit && pokemon.moves.indexOf(move.id) === 0) {
				move.basePower = Math.floor((pokemon.happiness * 10) / 25) || 1;
			}
		},
	},
 
Viability Rankings

S Rank

Doublade (Shadow Sneak)
Mega Metagross (Bullet Punch)


A+ Rank

Azumarill (Aqua Jet)


A Rank

Mega Lopunny (Fake Out/Quick Attack/Power-Up-Punch)
Rotom-W (Volt Switch)
Talonflame (Acrobatics)
Tyranitar (Pursuit)


A- Rank

Crawdaunt(Aqua Jet/Knock Off)
Klefki (Draining Kiss)
Magneton (Volt Switch/Hidden Power Fire)
Mega Scizor (Bullet Punch/U-Turn)
Metagross (Bullet Punch)
Volcanion(Hidden Power Grass)
Zapdos (Charge Beam/Volt Switch)


B+ Rank

Krookodile (Pursuit/Knock Off)
Landorus-T (Smack Down/Knock Off/U-Turn/Rock Tomb)
Mega Manectric(Volt Switch/Hidden Power Ice)
Scizor (Bullet Punch/U-Turn)
Skarmory (Payback)
Zangoose (Feint)


B Rank

Diggersby (Quick Attack)
Excadrill (Rapin Spin/Rock Tomb)
Heatran (Ancient Power/Fire Spin)
Hippowdon (Sand Tomb/Rock Tomb)
Infernape (Vacuum Wave, Mach Punch)
Lucario (Vacuum Wave)
Magnezone (Volt Switch/Hidden Power Fire)
Mega Banette (Shadow Sneak)
Mega Heracross (Feint)
Mew (Knock Off)
Quagsire (Whirlpool/Bulldoze/Scald)


B- Rank

Amoonguss (Absorb/Clear Smog)
Breloom (Mach Punch)
Ditto (Transform)
Ferrothorn (Payback/Rollout)
Keldeo (Icy Wind/Hidden Power Flying/Scald)
Mamoswine (Ice Shard)
Mega Diancie (Ancient Power)
Mega Medicham (Fake Out/Feint/Bullet Punch)
Rotom-H (Volt Switch)
Weavile (Ice Shard/Feint/Pursuit/Fake Out)


C+ Rank

Bronzong (Payback/Rollout)
Garchomp (Dragon Tail/Bulldoze)
Jirachi (Heart Stamp)
Latias (Stored Power)
Mega Sableye (Knock Off/Snarl/Shadow Sneak)
Mega Slowbro (Scald/Mud Slap)
Staraptor (Quick Attack)
Tangrowth (Absorb/Infestation)
Thundurus (Charge Beam/Hidden Power Flying)


C Rank

Azelf (Charge Beam)
Clefable (Mud Slap/Stored Power)
Donphan (Ice Shard)
Dugtrio (Sucker Punch)
Dragonite(Extreme Speed/Aerial Ace)
Latios (Hidden Power Fire/Luster Purge)
Mandibuzz (Foul Play/Knock Off)
Seismitoad (Scald/Bulldoze)
Vaporeon (Whirlpool)


C- Rank

Bisharp (Knock Off/Pursuit/Sucker Punch)
Gengar (Hex)
Gliscor (Knock Off/Bulldoze/Acrobatics)
Kabutops (Aqua Jet/Rollout)
Manaphy (Whirlpool/Scald)
Mega Blastoise (Water Pulse)
Mega Venusaur (Absorb)
Regirock (Rollout)


D Rank

Mega Ampharos (Volt Switch)
Mega Charizard-X (Flame Charge)
Mega Gardevoir (Draining Kiss/Psyshock)
Trapinch (Feint)
 
Last edited:
Sounds cool. I was really looking forward to using stuff like parabolic charge and all those cool low BP fighting, dark and fairy moves, but then you reminded me priority is affected as well. :( ...ah well, HAIL PINSIR and DIGGERSBY

Questions:
  • How is technician going to work?
  • Multi-hit moves?
  • This doesn't grant a power to status moves, correct?
  • I can't read
  • Why is ditto going to dominate? (No frustration shenanigans)
 
So, this seems at first to be very similar to move equality. However, there are a few differences, notably:
You can have powerful coverage/other moves. Many mons like victini appreciate this.
Not every move is boosted. Only one.
There is two extra bp.
Extreme speed/feint and/or other priority is dumb. (Goddamit Azumaril, Pinsir, possibly Medicham)

Outside of that, however, there are a bunch of moves that may still be broken really good)
Mud Slap
Trapping moves
Power up punch
Draining kiss
Parabolic charge




Sounds cool. I was really looking forward to using stuff like parabolic charge and all those cool low BP fighting, dark and fairy moves, but then you reminded me priority is affected as well. :( ...ah well, HAIL PINSIR

Questions:
  • How is technician going to work?
  • Multi-hit moves?
  • This doesn't grant a power to status moves, correct?
  • I can't read
  • Why is ditto going to dominate? (No frustration shenanigans)
Ditto probably wont dominate, that wasn't major anyway. Maybe if it imposters pinsir?
Technician will only affect non-returned moves, probably.

Hail pinsir doesn't seem major, because you cant run two megas and regular abomasnow is garb (as is manual hail). I'm not sure why you would use that to break sashes instead of rocks, though. If you have to, TTar is a good option for damaging weather.
 
Last edited:

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
Sounds cool. I was really looking forward to using stuff like parabolic charge and all those cool low BP fighting, dark and fairy moves, but then you reminded me priority is affected as well. :( ...ah well, HAIL PINSIR and DIGGERSBY

Questions:
  • How is technician going to work?
  • Multi-hit moves?
  • This doesn't grant a power to status moves, correct?
  • I can't read
  • Why is ditto going to dominate? (No frustration shenanigans)
Basically the move's base power is modified, meaning technician will still have an effect if the user's happiness would result in a Return BP of less than or equal to 60. Ditto will "dominate" because it can just run max happiness to make the first slot's move always have 102 BP.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Sounds cool. I was really looking forward to using stuff like parabolic charge and all those cool low BP fighting, dark and fairy moves, but then you reminded me priority is affected as well. :( ...ah well, HAIL PINSIR and DIGGERSBY

Questions:
  • How is technician going to work?
  • Multi-hit moves?
  • This doesn't grant a power to status moves, correct?
  • I can't read
  • Why is ditto going to dominate? (No frustration shenanigans)
The same way as Return, Technician doesn't have an effect unless you reduce your happiness to make the power 60 (but why would you do that). Mega Pinsir is clearly the #1 threat with Feint and when this is playable we can decide if it should stay or go.
 

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run / Knock Off
- Protect

A big issue with Mega Beedrill in standard is lack of boosting options due to its unusable bulk. Enter 102 Base Power Adaptability bosoted Fell Stinger! This practically gives it a free boost vs anything hit super effectively by Bug.


Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum

Azu can now afford to: Not speed creep defensive Heatran to reliably OHKO it and run a secondary coverage move over the double water it previously needed.


Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ancient Power
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Protect / Stealth Rock

Once again a minor set change from standard, but a special rock stab is very nice for allowing Diancie not to sacrifice its bulk with a Rash nature (or w/e it runs)
 

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run / Knock Off
- Protect

A big issue with Mega Beedrill in standard is lack of boosting options due to its unusable bulk. Enter 102 Base Power Adaptability bosoted Fell Stinger! This practically gives it a free boost vs anything hit super effectively by Bug.


Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum

Azu can now afford to: Not speed creep defensive Heatran to reliably OHKO it and run a secondary coverage move over the double water it previously needed.


Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ancient Power
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Protect / Stealth Rock

Once again a minor set change from standard, but a special rock stab is very nice for allowing Diancie not to sacrifice its bulk with a Rash nature (or w/e it runs)
That Beedrill seems kinda iffy- it causes a lot of switches (and there are still tons of things it cant stay in on), but it doesn't have U-turn. The problem is, I'm not sure what to ditch.
Azumaril should have 8 hp 248 def instead, so it can (usually) live a Pinsir feint after belly drumming.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Azumarill: 228-268 (66.4 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 298-352 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(same bp)

Diancie either still ran timid, or it wanted the damage and so ran hasty. Rash is dumb, there is no pokemon you should use it on. Really. Unless its MnM/AAA with raikou. Still, it does like the power of ancientpower.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Pinsir's feint is stronger than espeed. Prepare your smogonbirds. Seriously, its stupid.

All +1 priority stabs are just dumb, especially on mons with easy boosting or band. Banded Azu is just ridiculous, Banded Meta is ridiculous, Mega Meta is ridiculous, SD MegaZor is ridiculous, i mean, we should really bar priority moves from getting the boost in power lest this become a revenge killing war. Banded priority being stronger than banded crabhammer is just not fair to any archetype; its so powerful it breaks stall with priority. No.

Move equality barred priority moves from boosts, and this should too because creativity is irrelevant when you die before getting an attack off.

Sorry for shit formatting on phone.
 
Pinsir's feint is stronger than espeed. Prepare your smogonbirds. Seriously, its stupid.

All +1 stabs are just dumb, especially on mons with east boosting or band. Banded Azu is just ridiculous, Banded Meta is ridiculous, Mega Meta is ridiculous, SD MegaZor is ridiculous, i mean, we should really bar priority moves from getting the boost in power lest this become a revenge killing war. Banded priority being stronger than banded crabhammer is just not fair to any archetype; its so powerful it breaks stall with priority. No.

Move equality barred priority from boost, and this should to because creativity is irrelevant when you die before getting an attack off.

Sorry for shit formatting on phone.
Pinsir feint is broken, but all the other priority is still much weaker (besides, talonflame cant revenge pinsir). MMeta was already moving faster nearly all the time, so its only a 20 bp boost- with Azumaril its still missing out on a lot of ko's. Megazor is still just hitting with a normal type move at only +1 priority. Sure its nice, but I'm not seeing that as being broken.


But-
Is priority getting you down? Are you terrified of Pinsir? Can you just not believe how overpowered azumaril is? Well, the best way to fight fire is with fire.

Introducing the all new Fakeout Megalop! It revenges! It kills! It has coverage! Buy one today.


So this isn't a total shitpost, I would live to suggest we look at klefki for a potential mon. Between priority of its own, a nice healing move in draining kiss, the coveted fairy steel typing, its hazard laying/screen setting prowess, and its ability to cripple opposing sweepers, Klefki seems all set to be the new supportmon of choice.
 

Martin

Our plans may have been ruined by a cup of curry
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
So we're giving Azumarill and Mega Pinsir access to a STAB 102 BP move (before the boost from Aerilate in the latter's case) with +1 priority. This sounds balanced /sarcasm

Also IK from experience in Move Equality that by giving widely-distributed partial trapping moves high BPs (there is actually a 2 BP increase here too...) is completely borked/uncompetitive.

Either way I think that people who like Move Equality will defo like this, although the banlist could probably do with a bit of a revamp once this gets coded.
 
Banner coming soon. I'll make this post prettier later, I just wanted it up before the end of the month.

Welcome to Return'd, where the move in the first slot has its base power determined by the happiness value, using the same formula as Return. Which basically means, if you have 255 happiness, the first move will have 102 base power!

What does this change / FAQ
- More powerful/accurate STAB, if you lack one, with no drawback
- STAB with a secondary effect is preferred, such as Scald
- Stronger coverage move, such as Hidden Power
- Makes low BP moves with secondary effects viable, such as Infestation and Nuzzle

- Priority moves will dominate the metagame
- Return works like it does normally in any move slot
- Multi-hit moves are not affected
- Status moves are not affected (including Nature Power)

Standard OU clauses and bans apply, for now.

This post will be updated as people theorymon.
Well... Broken priority moves like Feint, Quick Atack, Extreme Speed, also Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet and other stuff...
I like idea, but please, - boosted Priority is not the best idea...

Nuzzle in this meta could be like Chatter (oh good no, pleace no boosted Chatter!) expect is pernament (before you use healing moves), but you didn't hit yourself...

Hidden Power... I feel Roserade here lose value from special Technician, because now everyone can use 102 power move with any type what they want (expect... Fairy and Normal... Where Normal is less value, becasue a lot of pokemons can just run better, countering type for huge counters).

Draining moves like Drainning Kiss, Parabolic Charge, Leech Life (terrible Bug move gain HUGE boost), even Drain Punch and Giga Drain Mega Drain (Mega Drain have more pp)... I think this can be acceptable, maybe Draining Kiss becomes really OP when combined with Big Root.
Tentacruel could be more playable here, because Liquid Oozoe abillity... but... Not that much...

How about Facade? They ignoring burn debuff, and with doubled power can have even 204 power!
With Guts... Even 306 power move (more than normal Explosion with 250 power!).
STAB boost is also a great option here...

Simillar situation we have with Acrobatics... "power doubles when user has no held item"...

More Unburden pokemons, where Unburden didn't matter, when you still have Broken Priority...
Whait...
Tallonflame have priority Acrobatics...
Oh crap...

...
Well... RIP Meta here.

Anyway - Priority shouldn't be boosted. Also all moves what gain priority should lose that boost (Gale Wings Acrobatics for example).

How about this?
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Keldeo-Resolute @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Icy Wind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Keldeo finally gets the coverage it deserves.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Anyway - Priority shouldn't be boosted. Also all moves what gain priority should lose that boost (Gale Wings Acrobatics for example).

How about this?
I choose to keep priority moves boosted. Taking that aspect out might make the meta more balanced, but its at the cost of making it less different than standard/other OMs and also, in my opinion, less appealing, because people like extreme/brokenness.

If a Pokemon is overpowered, such as Mega Pinsir might be, it will be banned.
 

Mannat

formerly LL
is a Tutor
Won SPL Predictions
Lucario can actually use bp as a reliable steel STAB aside from cc now which is cool. Also, lemme run down buffs to S-A+ rank of ou vr thread. Also, do moves get 100 accuracy like return or keep their base accuracy? I personally think they should keep base accuracy to keep dynamicpunch and zap cannon balanced, because then it would be move equality+ngg lol. Keep in mind I'm saying 100 instead of 102 since they're basically the same thing lol.

- Um better coverage in 100bp flamethrower and slightly stronger moonblast, but it's pretty much the same.
- Coverage moves get boosted power, and 100bp scald if ur into being a dick.
- Can use much more reliable flying STAB in air slash as well as having the option to boost a weak coverage move like icy wind or like hp steel.
- He can use 100bp charge beam for a reliable electric coverage move with a scary chance to boost and shadow ball gets a nice bp increase as well as psystrike basically being added to his learnset.
- 100BP Aqua jet is insanely scary, and this could allow it to muscle past some of its common checks on the bd set and makes band even more versatile being able to run superpower+knock off.
- 100BP sucker if u want, and 100 bp knock off makes children cry in their sleep as well as some cool coverage moves like aerial ace and brick break (low kick's inconsistent power is kinda meh)
- He can boost up his dragon STAB in dragon claw up to base 100 or get a recoil-less fire STAB, so it's basically a win win. He can also use metal claw/steel wing to get a chance to boost and deal with those pesky fairies. Flame charge could be used in conjunction with belly drum to have a scary wincon vs defensive teams that run hippo as their zardx counter as well.
- Mega Diancie gets STAB ancientpower so that you can run an all-special set as well as 100bp hidden power, but that's about it.
- Driller gets a much better coverage move in 100bp rock tomb which could feasibly be used on a banded or life orb mold breaker set to ruin flying types that are trying to switch into eq, or you can run higher BP iron head.
- Ferrothorn gets 100bp seed bomb which gives u reliable grass STAB, and he can also use 100bp bulldoze to catch tran on the switch in. You can also use shit like aerial ace to catch incoming flying types and a much more powerful knock off.
- 100 bp fire coverage in fire fang on the sd 3 attacks set as well as 100bp dragon claw, which is really nice, and he can use some normally weak shit coverage moves to his advantage.
- Heatran gets 100bp hp grass/electric for waters, which puts solartran out of commission. Also, it can use hp ice on a scarf set or on an offensive set vs tankchomp to nab the coveted OHKO. Also, it can learn mud slap if u wanna be a dick lol.
- Gets 100bp dark pulse, 100bp psychic, 100bp drain punch, 100bp charge beam, and a myriad of other options to shit on defensive teams even more than it did before.
- Can use more reliable 100 bp rock tomb as rock coverage as well as a way to slow down faster mons upon switch in on sets like subsd and shit. Knock off and u turn gain large power boosts, becoming more than just semi-weak utility moves.
- 100BP quick attack is extremely scary, and it can run through offensive teams with 2 free moveslots for use and coverage. Ice punch and healing wish can both be used as well as baton pass without sacrificing as much as you needed to before.
- Basically gains flamethrower and earth power for steel types and number of reliable switch ins reduces by a lot with new moves, making it a much better stallbreaker/wallbreaker.
- Pretty much the same, except with 100bp scald and gets a few more coverage moves with hidden power that it frankly doesn't need lol.
- Gets to free up 2 moveslots for hammer arm and ice punch without sacrificing priority or coverage since this can be used over meteor mash and its boosted BP allows it to smash past offensive teams.
- Pretty much the same with 100bp knock off, or snarl for NP sets, but the increased role of offense in the meta hurts it a lot.
- 100 BP bullet punch is extremely scary and can do a lot vs offense, and you can run aerial ace for incoming keldeo's and shit like that. The SD set becomes a much more reliable sweeper with such a high powered STAB.
- This thing can run 200 bp acrobatics for maximum destruction, run steel wing as a way to hit rock types, or just run flame charge so that its fire STAB doesn't have recoil. Basically the bane of offense lol.
- Stronger hp ice to 2hko hippo and OHKO pretty much every other ground as well as nice 100bp hp flying with basically nothing else.
- 100bp ice shard to smack offensive mons, and its high speed stat puts it above other prio abusers bar lop, which is really nice in the metagame, although feint pinsir still reks it.
Basically stall is pretty much dead, but hyper offense is murdered by the influx of powerful priority in the metagame, so bulky offense with priority absorbers is a really nice playstyle to use atm.

Potentially Broken Moves/Mons
  • Feint Pinsir (out prioritizes all other priority users and has 100*aerialate*STAB)
  • Mud Slap (annoying af and can make everything blind while having the same BP as eq)
  • Ajet azu (huge power ajet+belly drum pls no
  • Priority users in general
Tell me if I missed anything in this post or the last one pls <3
 
Last edited by a moderator:

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Also, do moves get 100 accuracy like return or keep their base accuracy?
Accuracy is not affected.

As appealing as running Bullet Punch Mega Metagross might be, it can run Power-up Punch in the first slot if you want a guaranteed boost on top of a Fighting move with no drawback.
 

Mannat

formerly LL
is a Tutor
Won SPL Predictions
Accuracy is not affected.

As appealing as running Bullet Punch Mega Metagross might be, it can run Power-up Punch in the first slot if you want a guaranteed boost on top of a Fighting move with no drawback.
Thanks, and 100BP boosted priority is good enough to be considered with PuP, but i didn't think about that before. Also, every team needs multiple sturdy bp resists or else steel spam could overwhelm them. I can see heatran being good here as it resists both steel and flying, but it still can't counter cc pinsir.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
as one guy already said, acrobatics is now base 102 (i.e. 204 if you hold no item), which is better than CB brave bird, allows for switching of moves and no recoil...

feel free to keep prio I guess; usually e-speed dominates these metas, but i guess yours will just be dominated by ExtremeReturn
 
Let's see here....

Aerodactyl is now very happy it can run Tough Claws Aerial Ace with good power(it resists Aerialate too!)
Any common special -ate abuser can beef its power a bit with 102 BP Hyper voices.
The previously mentioned 100-150 BP Knock off
mega Blastoise is living large and loving life with a 150 BP water pulse
Of course, any good Sheer Force user LOVES having a boost to power/coverage
ooh, mega medicham. Boosted Zen Headbutt, or boosted Priority? Choices, choices
Serperior loves having its mediocre coverage options boosted
Mega Manectric is more annoying than ever with a 100 BP Volt Switch.
Mega Pidgeot gets some nice options. Actual special STAB in swift, pseudo Focus Blast, MUD SLAP.
Donphan has a 100 BP Ice Shard. It's viable now, right? actually, it doesn't seem too bad.
Iron Fist Conkeldurr seems like fun, especially with all of its potential punching options.(mach punch)
 
Pursuit in the first slot is 204 BP if you're able to catch your intended target on a switch. Coming from something that gets STAB on it like Tyranitar or Bisharp, that's pretty scary to think about. (It's also still pretty powerful when your target isn't switching, making it not a complete liability if you use it when your target doesn't switch)

Smack Down and Rock Tomb are now here to alleviate the crisis of chronically inaccurate physical Rock attacks. Rock Tomb is probably better in most cases because its added effect is to lower Speed, but if you're fighting something like Skarmory and/or still don't want to chance a 5% miss, Smack Down's ability to make ungrounded Pokémon vulnerable to Ground-type attacks should come in handy.
 

Dr. Phd. BJ

LuckE n BAD
How would knock off work? Would it still be base 102 with the additional 1.5 boost if there is held item? Knock off is already great as a 65 base power move, but with 102 base power, it becomes significantly better. By no means am I saying it is unbalanced or needs ban, I am just curious what the base power is.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
How would knock off work? Would it still be base 102 with the additional 1.5 boost if there is held item? Knock off is already great as a 65 base power move, but with 102 base power, it becomes significantly better. By no means am I saying it is unbalanced or needs ban, I am just curious what the base power is.
Yes, it would be 102 x 1.5. Quite scary with STAB!
 
So as has been said, Pinsir's feint is ridiculous, doing 102*1.3*1.5 flying damage that breaks protect. What's worse, however, and what I think is going to push pinsir over the top (please no bans just off theory morning), is that it can run BOTH of its main coverage options in CC and EQ. A set of SD/feint/CC/EQ destroys everything except for balloon doublade(lol) and skarmory, who can't switch in, and is otherwise forced to whirlwind.


Separately, Mega lop is interesting, in that it might now be able to run adamant, along with also getting a strong PuP to replace hjk, a strong quick attack to replace return, freeing up space for ice punch (or healing wish), or even a strong fakeout for revenging pinsir.
 
Actually, Return'd Fake Out sounds really good as a revenging option on other things. +3 Priority is pretty sweet, and outruns standard priority options.
 

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