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The Immortal

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Added a big list of moves! Let me know if I missed anything.

One thing I discovered, Rollout/Ice Ball! They start of at 102 BP and double each turn... D:
 
Added a big list of moves! Let me know if I missed anything.

One thing I discovered, Rollout/Ice Ball! They start of at 102 BP and double each turn... D:
Awesome.

Fortunately, nothing of worth learns iceball (walrein?) but rollout on the other hand? Gulp. Echoed voice mega gardevoir. Holy Jesus.

Also storm throw and frost breath? 100 BP guaranteed crit. Yikes
 
Awesome.

Fortunately, nothing of worth learns iceball (walrein?) but rollout on the other hand? Gulp. Echoed voice mega gardevoir. Holy Jesus.

Also storm throw and frost breath? 100 BP guaranteed crit. Yikes
Frost Breath isn't too bad, there are more ridiculous things than what's essentially 150 BP.

Echoed voice seems stupidly broken tho. And rollout.
 
One thing I discovered, Rollout/Ice Ball! They start of at 102 BP and double each turn... D:
After a Defense Curl, a final-hit Rollout/Ice Ball that's in the first slot has a base power of 3264. And keep in mind, that's before a STAB boost if one is applicable.

Yeah, not even something like Mega Steelix is surviving that. Missing is still a worry though, as is the move failing from paralysis/confusion/being blocked by Protect/etc.

edit: you forgot to list Draining Kiss under "Draining moves" in the OP, it has a good offensive type and recovers 75% of the damage dealt. Distribution is mediocre but it's better than Parabolic Charge's at least
 
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After a Defense Curl, a final-hit Rollout/Ice Ball that's in the first slot has a base power of 3264. And keep in mind, that's before a STAB boost if one is applicable.

Yeah, not even something like Mega Steelix is surviving that. Missing is still a worry though, as is the move failing from paralysis/confusion/being blocked by Protect/etc.

edit: you forgot to list Draining Kiss under "Draining moves" in the OP, it has a good offensive type and recovers 75% of the damage dealt. Distribution is mediocre but it's better than Parabolic Charge's at least
Pretty sure rollout maxes out at 1632. (102>204>408>816>1632) that's five turns.

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior (816 BP) Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 296-348 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

HE LIIIIVVVEESSS

Edit oh after a defense curl. Yes. You're correct. But that's never happening lol
 
Pretty sure rollout maxes out at 1632. (102>204>408>816>1632) that's five turns.

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior (816 BP) Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 296-348 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

HE LIIIIVVVEESSS
Normally you'd be right, but the maximum power I cited there was after you've used Defense Curl. The power of Rollout and Ice Ball doubles if you've used Defense Curl previously.

that said though, it might be a bit hard to set up Defense Curl with some Rollout users, and it's only Rollout/Ice Ball that benefit from it, so it's up to you whether you want to use Defense Curl or not
 
Frost Breath isn't too bad, there are more ridiculous things than what's essentially 150 BP.

Echoed voice seems stupidly broken tho. And rollout.
Well, I just wait for first, Pixilate user of Echoed Voice...

Scarf Sylveon is the fastest user of this move: 360 points of speed on Timid nature, with 319 points of sp. atack.
The strongest Enchoed Voice we can hear last time before death from also Sylveon - Specs this time. 525 points of sp. atack on Modest, but with only 219 points of speed...
When we use Mega Gardevoir, we have really nice stats - the fastest set have 328 speed points and 429 sp. atack points on Timid.
The strongest Enchoed Voice from Gardevoir - 471 sp. atack and 299 speed points on Modest.

Still we have STAB (x1.5) and Pixilate (x1.3) boost, with growing eatch turn power...
Where are Soundproof pokemons when we need then?
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
stored power sounds fun. with just one calm mind it hits 140 base power.

im guessing double hits count as "multi hit" otherwise triple kick might be a bit insanely op (326 base power given all three hit) would triple kick even count as a multihit? since its more like 3 seperate attacks then 1 big one. for the sake of balance, id imagine it is.

some interesting stuff...too bad half of it is rendered useless since priority is going to be so common. lol.
 

Martin

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Echoed Voice and Fury Cutter aren't as bad as Rollout on the basis that they have a power cap of 200 and only increase by 40 each turn (thank god). Still ultra scary though.
 
Echoed Voice and Fury Cutter aren't as bad as Rollout on the basis that they have a power cap of 200 and only increase by 40 each turn (thank god). Still ultra scary though.
Er, no. They double on each use. If that carries forward and they have an equivalent end cap (That is, instead of capping at 200 on the second use they cap on the fourth use at 5 and 1/2 base BP ie 550 BP) then they can get pretty scary.

Probably irrelevant against offensive teams because they'll stomp you with priority first, but definitely an absurd wallbreaking effect if it works out that way.

Mega Pinsir probably needs a quickban, but I'd be hesitant to to propose bans on anything else. Aerilated STAB 102 base BP Feint with Swords Dance and coverage off of 155 Attack is totally nuts, but other things seem interesting, not necessarily broken.
 

Martin

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Er, no. They double on each use. If that carries forward and they have an equivalent end cap (That is, instead of capping at 200 on the second use they cap on the fourth use at 5 and 1/2 base BP ie 550 BP) then they can get pretty scary.
Quoting Bulbapedia:

"Echoed Voice deals damage. Its base power increases by 40 each consecutive turn it is used but reaches a maximum power at 200"

The power cap is hard coded (I learned this in the days of Averagemoves (i.e. The initial version of Move Equality that was locked due to neither me or the mods realising about the original move equality)), so it does not increase.

You're right about Fury Cutter though. My bad.
 
Knock off under this is Insanely powerful for any stab user 229 BP after stab and and removal item boost and it's still respectable even without the removable item boost as it's stronger than all other dark type move and pretty much replaces all other physical dark stab options and having much better distribution as hyperspace fury is hoopa-U exclusive.

and crawdaunt is just fucking insane 204 BP after adaptability and 306 BP after removable item boost at least crawdaunt is held back by it's frailness and speed but god damn good luck switching into it's knock off because even resists still take massive hits only scrafty resists 4x and scrafty isn't OU material.

if your a dark type there is literally no reason to not have knock off as your return'd stab move unless you don't get it.

the more i look at the more i agree with the sentiment that priority probably should be excluded as the ability to hit first with stab 102 BP is pretty much better than any other option almost all the time which pretty much make the game revolve around those who can use priority the best and the tanks than can take those hits and the support for those two gamefreak probably already saw this being a issue and that's why really strong priority is a rarity in the official games
 
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The Immortal

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Quoting Bulbapedia:

"Echoed Voice deals damage. Its base power increases by 40 each consecutive turn it is used but reaches a maximum power at 200"

The power cap is hard coded (I learned this in the days of Averagemoves (i.e. The initial version of Move Equality that was locked due to neither me or the mods realising about the original move equality)), so it does not increase.

You're right about Fury Cutter though. My bad.
Forget Bulbapedia, PS! implements Echoed Voice as maximum boost is 5x, rather than 200. Who knows how the game actually does it, but I'll assume this to be accurate as Marty is the mechanics expert.

Also, forgot about U-turn and Volt Switch which are great choices to be Return'd if you have STAB. Such as on Mega Manetric/Beedrill/Scizor and Raikou. Rotom-Wash too, possibly.
 
Also, forgot about U-turn and Volt Switch which are great choices to be Return'd if you have STAB. Such as on Mega Manetric/Beedrill/Scizor and Raikou. Rotom-Wash too, possibly.
Im not convinced many VoltTurn users wouldn't usualy have better options for their first slot. For example, Mega Manectric would prefer HP Ice in that first slot as to have an option to OHKO Lando-T more reliably, and Beedrill probably wants the stronger coverage of 102 BP Knock Off or Drill run (probs the latter so it isn't steel bait).
 

Marty

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Forget Bulbapedia, PS! implements Echoed Voice as maximum boost is 5x, rather than 200. Who knows how the game actually does it, but I'll assume this to be accurate as Marty is the mechanics expert.
For all intents and purposes in standard gameplay, 5x 40 power and a cap of 200 power are the same thing, so I figured I'd put Echoed Voice to the test.

I changed Echoed Voice to have 120 power in White, then used it 5 times on the same target, and the damage increased as expected. But then I did some damage calculations and found that it was actually 40 power on the first hit and 200 power on the last hit, as if I never changed anything (even though both the TM and battle summary told me it was 120 power).

So the Echoed Voice effect is actually hardcoded to 40 power with a maximum multiplier of 5!
 

wishes

clarity
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And you know what? Pinsir can even run Storm Throw for 153 BP Fighting-type moves to hit nearly all Steel / Rock-types as a lure option! That's pretty threatening. Here are some threats I could think of!

* Serperior - increasingly powerful Dragon Pulse gives it a better matchup versus Mega Latias! And it has a powerful Knock Off as well.
* Hoopa-U - has a more powerful Hyperspace Fury in Knock Off... Wow. Or you can run 102 base power coverage; whichever ya like. CB KOff actually is ridiculous though! OHKOes Keldeo, very close to OHKOing Mega Diancie, and most of its other checks. Crazy.
* Mega Charizard X - 102 BP Power-Up Punch here we come. And Steel / Flying coverage for mixups.

Also, in general, a cool thing might be Hex. Hits 204 power if something is statused. Like here's just one calc:

252 SpA Spell Tag Mismagius Hex (204 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 231-272 (85.2 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Pair it with status spreading and Toxic Spikes, and bam, you're off to a powerful spam move.

A lot of cool things also get 102 BP Mud-Slap. Some notable ones include Sylveon, Mega Altaria, Mega Pidgeot, and a bunch of other Pokemon too. Huge distribution.

Slurpuff also gets a 102 BP Thief. :3

Overall, this metagame is actually awesome. I really enjoy it, and it if it ever gets coded, catch me trying to get battles 24/7. In fact, I've already made a team in preparation aha. Never too early I'd say!

E: Oh! And all Electric-types now have Volt Switch w/ 102 BP. Scary. That is unless you're Stunfisk. :pirate:

E2: And oml, Stored Power. x_x
 

OM room

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oml Water Shuriken.

0- Atk Accelgor Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 320-380 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Literally a 102 Priority move that hits more than once. TI ban pls

nvm.

Just the prospect of this meta is amazing though. If every mon is able to have a coverage move / 102 Power STAB every mon could be amazing. Also Feint Spam is going to be a thing. A Great thing.
 
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* Serperior - increasingly powerful Dragon Pulse gives it a better matchup versus Mega Latias! And it has a powerful Knock Off as well.
Why are you boosting Dragon Pulse and not Hidden Power coverage? Even if you want it to help against Mega Latias, you can take Hidden Power Ice/Ghost/Dark to get that result while providing coverage against other Pokemon. Dragon Pulse's 85 BP is acceptable, it's the Hidden Power coverage that needs a boost. (Preferably being Fighting or Ground to cover Heatran)

* Hoopa-U - has a more powerful Hyperspace Fury in Knock Off... Wow. Or you can run 102 base power coverage; whichever ya like. CB KOff actually is ridiculous though! OHKOes Keldeo, very close to OHKOing Mega Diancie, and most of its other checks. Crazy.
Whoa what. That's nuts.

* Mega Charizard X - 102 BP Power-Up Punch here we come. And Steel / Flying coverage for mixups.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Power Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 304-358 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So basically Mega Charizard X can Dragon Dance as Heatran switches in and then OHKO it if it's not Physically defensive and get a boost in the process. Earthquake can be replaced with no worries.

I'd be horrified, except that then the murder priority dogpiles onto it and neuters its sweep.

Slurpuff also gets a 102 BP Thief. :3
E2: And oml, Stored Power. x_x
Well, 102 as a base instead of 20 as a base helps, I guess? It's still only adding 20 BP per tier of boosting, and at extreme boost level it's not even noticeable.

---

One thing that comes to mind to me is partial trapping moves. Almost all of them can miss, unfortunately, but they're potentially very threatening stallbreaking tools, and very spammable in general -not much is going to like switching into a 102 BP move that then chops off 1/8th of their HP regardless of their exact typing and denies switching if they were planning on that. (eg Regenerator)
 
Why are you boosting Dragon Pulse and not Hidden Power coverage? Even if you want it to help against Mega Latias, you can take Hidden Power Ice/Ghost/Dark to get that result while providing coverage against other Pokemon. Dragon Pulse's 85 BP is acceptable, it's the Hidden Power coverage that needs a boost. (Preferably being Fighting or Ground to cover Heatran)



Whoa what. That's nuts.



252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Power Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 304-358 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So basically Mega Charizard X can Dragon Dance as Heatran switches in and then OHKO it if it's not Physically defensive and get a boost in the process. Earthquake can be replaced with no worries.

I'd be horrified, except that then the murder priority dogpiles onto it and neuters its sweep.





Well, 102 as a base instead of 20 as a base helps, I guess? It's still only adding 20 BP per tier of boosting, and at extreme boost level it's not even noticeable.

---

One thing that comes to mind to me is partial trapping moves. Almost all of them can miss, unfortunately, but they're potentially very threatening stallbreaking tools, and very spammable in general -not much is going to like switching into a 102 BP move that then chops off 1/8th of their HP regardless of their exact typing and denies switching if they were planning on that. (eg Regenerator)
not to mention that a lot of pokemon get infestation which doesn't miss.
 
edit: you forgot to list Draining Kiss under "Draining moves" in the OP, it has a good offensive type and recovers 75% of the damage dealt. Distribution is mediocre but it's better than Parabolic Charge's at least
Draining Kiss is notable because Klefki gets it. Klefki is notable because at these power levels, Prankster screens could be the only thing giving you a turn to set up, and Prankster Thunder Wave might be the only thing letting you revenge +6 Azumarill. Draining Kiss means that Klefki is setup fodder for fewer things and is a lot harder to wear down. Sort of like in Move Equality, except the support it provides here is even more crucial.

And as for another post that I won't quote on mobile, Crawdaunt should at /least/ give serious consideration to buffing Aqua Jet to 100BP, simply because it has priority.

Five priority abusers + one support Pokemon, with a prioritizer optionally switched out for a wallbreaker or another supporter, looks like it might be the best team archetype here. Unless someone can make a good case for bulky offense, I guess.
 
Okay... I looking for good priority eater, and...
I think Jellicent could be good here:

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body / Water Absorb / Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex / Absorb
- Will-O-Wisp / Scald
- Scald / Hex
- Recover

He block a lot of priority moves:
Quick Atack - immunity
Extreme Speed - immunity
Aqua Jet - immunity / halved
Mach Punch - immunity
Vacum Wave - immunity
Feint - immunity
Bullet Punch - halved
Ice Shard - halved
...
I think only Sucker Punch could hurt... when we use ofensive move.

I miss something? -ate users I didn't count here for now...
Oh... and Hex combo is nice here - boosted have 204 power (and x1.5 STAB boost).
When we want more healing options and covearge - Absorb on first slot is great - 100 power, 40 pp's, 50% damage dealing heal...
And also great counter against no Sap Sipper Azumaril.

How about this pokemon?
 

wishes

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I was confused as to how Hidden Power works, so I didn't mention it! I didn't know the interaction with the IVs and whatnot. TI, can you maybe clarify?
 

The Immortal

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I was confused as to how Hidden Power works, so I didn't mention it! I didn't know the interaction with the IVs and whatnot. TI, can you maybe clarify?
Hidden Power is boosted. Hidden Power has a fixed based power since gen 6 and doesn't depend on IVs. If this OM was last gen, it could have gone either way.
 
Okay... I looking for good priority eater, and...
I think Jellicent could be good here:

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body / Water Absorb / Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex / Absorb
- Will-O-Wisp / Scald
- Scald / Hex
- Recover

He block a lot of priority moves:
Quick Atack - immunity
Extreme Speed - immunity
Aqua Jet - immunity / halved
Mach Punch - immunity
Vacum Wave - immunity
Feint - immunity
Bullet Punch - halved
Ice Shard - halved
...
I think only Sucker Punch could hurt... when we use ofensive move.

I miss something? -ate users I didn't count here for now...
Oh... and Hex combo is nice here - boosted have 204 power (and x1.5 STAB boost).
When we want more healing options and covearge - Absorb on first slot is great - 100 power, 40 pp's, 50% damage dealing heal...
And also great counter against no Sap Sipper Azumaril.

How about this pokemon?
Sponging priority would mean a lot more if it outsped anything. As of right now, it'll outspeed Azumarill sets that don't invest in Speed at all, and... I guess if someone's running banded Quick Attack/Mach Punch they'd be afraid to spam it. But many of those mons will inevitably be carrying coverage moves that will fuck Jellicent up. Point is that Jellicent comes in to take a priority move and has to switch out of the coverage move that comes after it.

Gengar might be more what you're looking for. It can only take on Normal- and Fighting-type priority moves, but at least it can use its typing and speed to get the drop on stuff. And with a sash, it can at least get off a WoW on the target or drop a Destiny Bond on the way. Beyond that, nothing really qualifies as a 'priority sponge' in a meaningful way. I guess Starmie can run fast defensive sets to take Aqua Jets, Bullet Punches, Mach Punches, Ice Shards, and Vacuum Waves, though it might not have the power to properly retaliate without SpA investment.
 

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