That was an oversight on my behalf, fixed it
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Metagame Reversed
- Thread starter snow
- Start date
Although it has not been coded yet, the perfect version would be that you invest in Special Attack for something like Darmanitan but as the OM has not been coded yet, we will have to see what is possible.
Ok, so we've discussed some potentially useful sets. Now here's a stupid meme thing:
Yanmega (M) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Leech Life
- Night Slash
- Aerial Ace
I dunno, TL Leech Life off of 116 Attack seemed nice, and I wanted to make use of it.
And now, back to actual mons.
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
- Taunt / Destiny Bond / Shadow Sneak
165 Attack Pixilate Returns? Sign me right up!
Yanmega (M) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Leech Life
- Night Slash
- Aerial Ace
I dunno, TL Leech Life off of 116 Attack seemed nice, and I wanted to make use of it.
And now, back to actual mons.
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
- Taunt / Destiny Bond / Shadow Sneak
165 Attack Pixilate Returns? Sign me right up!
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I threw together a rain team with the swampert in mind the best I could at 12:27 AM. Here is what I got http://pokepast.es/246f892f6ca18afc Interestingly enough some of the sets stayed quite similar to their normal ou ones such as kingdra, which has 0 changes in its stats in this meta.
Interesting team, seems like Ferrothorn would be a very hard Pokemon for you to beat yourself with Keldeo not being a very good check. I feel like there is a lot of new potential for Rain teams in this tier with a few getting the buff.
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
Azumarill gets a slight buff in this meta with an extra 10 Attack. Superpower to be able to deal with Ferrothorn and dual STAB to abuse the rain.
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
Azumarill gets a slight buff in this meta with an extra 10 Attack. Superpower to be able to deal with Ferrothorn and dual STAB to abuse the rain.
Dragonite @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Surf
- Thunder
Resisting Ferrothorn's Giga Drain and having a powerful All Out Pummeling to deal with Ferrothorn, this Pokemon can abuse the rain with both Surf and Thunder freely.
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Surf
- Thunder
Resisting Ferrothorn's Giga Drain and having a powerful All Out Pummeling to deal with Ferrothorn, this Pokemon can abuse the rain with both Surf and Thunder freely.
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
Getting the buff to Special Attack, Araquanid can use utilize Water Bubble-boosted Scald better to cripple opponents that try to switch in. It can also give your Other team speed control giving you the option to drop a Swift Swim user. Ice Beam is also good coverage for threats such as Dragon Dance Lati.
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
Getting the buff to Special Attack, Araquanid can use utilize Water Bubble-boosted Scald better to cripple opponents that try to switch in. It can also give your Other team speed control giving you the option to drop a Swift Swim user. Ice Beam is also good coverage for threats such as Dragon Dance Lati.
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
Gyarados has both great STAB moves and good coverage moves in its movepool. Hitting Psychic, Ghost, Fire, Rock, Ground, Grass, Ice, Steel, Water and Flying-types for super effective damage.
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
Gyarados has both great STAB moves and good coverage moves in its movepool. Hitting Psychic, Ghost, Fire, Rock, Ground, Grass, Ice, Steel, Water and Flying-types for super effective damage.
Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Steel Wing
- Liquidation
A bulky attacker that can hit quite hard after a Swords Dance and in the rain. This Pokemon can eat Grass-type attacks and set up, also getting the Defiant ability to beat intimidate users.
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Steel Wing
- Liquidation
A bulky attacker that can hit quite hard after a Swords Dance and in the rain. This Pokemon can eat Grass-type attacks and set up, also getting the Defiant ability to beat intimidate users.
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Mega Sceptile with reversed stats is an absolute best! Being able to resist Grass that threatens rain teams as well as being immune to Electric attacks, this Pokemon is a good check to Pokemon looking to KO your Water-types. Now with the reversed stats it is boasting a good amount of Attack, far more than enough to be viable.
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Mega Sceptile with reversed stats is an absolute best! Being able to resist Grass that threatens rain teams as well as being immune to Electric attacks, this Pokemon is a good check to Pokemon looking to KO your Water-types. Now with the reversed stats it is boasting a good amount of Attack, far more than enough to be viable.
Hope this helps anybody looking for creative ideas in this meta.
Interesting team, seems like Ferrothorn would be a very hard Pokemon for you to beat yourself with Keldeo not being a very good check. I feel like there is a lot of new potential for Rain teams in this tier with a few getting the buff.
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
Azumarill gets a slight buff in this meta with an extra 10 Attack. Superpower to be able to deal with Ferrothorn and dual STAB to abuse the rain.
Dragonite @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Surf
- Thunder
Resisting Ferrothorn's Giga Drain and having a powerful All Out Pummeling to deal with Ferrothorn, this Pokemon can abuse the rain with both Surf and Thunder freely.
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
Getting the buff to Special Attack, Araquanid can use utilize Water Bubble-boosted Scald better to cripple opponents that try to switch in. It can also give your Other team speed control giving you the option to drop a Swift Swim user. Ice Beam is also good coverage for threats such as Dragon Dance Lati.
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
Gyarados has both great STAB moves and good coverage moves in its movepool. Hitting Psychic, Ghost, Fire, Rock, Ground, Grass, Ice, Steel, Water and Flying-types for super effective damage.
Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Steel Wing
- Liquidation
A bulky attacker that can hit quite hard after a Swords Dance and in the rain. This Pokemon can eat Grass-type attacks and set up, also getting the Defiant ability to beat intimidate users.
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Mega Sceptile with reversed stats is an absolute best! Being able to resist Grass that threatens rain teams as well as being immune to Electric attacks, this Pokemon is a good check to Pokemon looking to KO your Water-types. Now with the reversed stats it is boasting a good amount of Attack, far more than enough to be viable.
Hope this helps anybody looking for creative ideas in this meta.
These sets are mostly intended for rain teams, yes? Because if so, Fire Blast Gyarados in Rain? Ok.
Fire Blast Gyarados can be swapped for other things but it is mostly used as a fail safe if Rain is gone to deal with Grass/Steel better. Plus it can be used as a lead vs Ferrothorn rather than leading Pelipper against it and then taking damage bringing in another mon. Even if another coverage move was used in the Rain you will most likely use Water-type attacks or atleast STAB so I feel like the option of having Fire Blast in the back is nice.
Two Pokemon of note to discuss are:
Darkrai was considered to be allowed in this tier, however it has access to Swords Dance so I decided against it being in the tier for now. Darkrai has 135 Attack with 125 Speed and Swords Dance meaning if let in it will be a huge threat in the meta. Its Physical movepool is pretty good giving it Throat Chop, Knock Off and Sucker Punch as its main STAB attacks and Drain Punch, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Phantom Force and X-Scissor as its main coverage moves. The only physical move it has to deal with Fighting-types being Aerial Ace.
Tapu Koko I have only just been looking at properly and realising it has +20 buff to its Special Attack. Tapu Koko is already a huge threat in the OU tier and I feel like with a lot of the Pokemon in OU losing viability Tapu Koko might be a bit over centralizing in the meta.
Input would be great on what people think on these two Pokemon. Even though we are only theorymoning at the moment it is important we start the tier off with the most balanced meta possible.
Darkrai was considered to be allowed in this tier, however it has access to Swords Dance so I decided against it being in the tier for now. Darkrai has 135 Attack with 125 Speed and Swords Dance meaning if let in it will be a huge threat in the meta. Its Physical movepool is pretty good giving it Throat Chop, Knock Off and Sucker Punch as its main STAB attacks and Drain Punch, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Phantom Force and X-Scissor as its main coverage moves. The only physical move it has to deal with Fighting-types being Aerial Ace.
Tapu Koko I have only just been looking at properly and realising it has +20 buff to its Special Attack. Tapu Koko is already a huge threat in the OU tier and I feel like with a lot of the Pokemon in OU losing viability Tapu Koko might be a bit over centralizing in the meta.
Input would be great on what people think on these two Pokemon. Even though we are only theorymoning at the moment it is important we start the tier off with the most balanced meta possible.
Naganadel is going to be the metas best scarfer.
Naganadel @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Beast Boost
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Outrage
- Throat Chop
- U-Turn
Fast, has really strong STABs to back up its impressive Attack and U-Turn gives it all it needs to be a quick revengekiller
Naganadel @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Beast Boost
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Outrage
- Throat Chop
- U-Turn
Fast, has really strong STABs to back up its impressive Attack and U-Turn gives it all it needs to be a quick revengekiller
Pair this with a Pokemon that can easily deal with bulky steel types and it can be OP. I'm not sure exactly how viable it will be but Alolan Golem gets both Magnet Pull and Fire Blast
Reshiram @ Draco Plate
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Hone Claws
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind
- Sludge Wave
Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Defog
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
idk the meta i kinda just threw this team together
fini traps and kills opposing reshiram and chansey while also providing defog support
the rest is idk
evs on reshiram are to outspeed m-scep at +1 and then max attack with rest in hp
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Hone Claws
Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind
- Sludge Wave
Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Defog
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
idk the meta i kinda just threw this team together
fini traps and kills opposing reshiram and chansey while also providing defog support
the rest is idk
evs on reshiram are to outspeed m-scep at +1 and then max attack with rest in hp
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Team I made after a lot of talking in the OM room about the potentials of the meta.
Toucannon
Great wallbreaker! Choice Specs,120 Spa, and STAB Boomburst, this paired with Sheer Force-boosted Heat Wave for steel types makes it quite hard to beat.
Alolan Golem
The teams designated trapper. It can come in and deal with Steel-types that free up Toucannon to spam Boomburst. Air Balloon to deal with its Earthquake weakness. Thunderbolt and Fire Blast can kill off both Skarmory and Ferrothorn, Focus Blast and HP Ice as extra coverage.
Tapu Bulu
A good check to Tapu Koko, it can switch terrains and start setting up Calm Minds. Giga Drain and Dazzling Gleam both used for STAB and Synthesis for longevity. Grassy Seed pops on entry with Grassy Terrain and boosts Tapu Bulu's Defense by +1.
Blastoise
Blastoise is the specially defensive Rapid Spinner, being able to come in safely against Swift Swim users such as Swampert and Kingdra. Toxic and Scald to inflict status as well as Mirror Coat to KO them hard hitting special attackers.
Hippowdon
My Special Wall, Hippowdon is used to check Pokemon such as Landorus and Tapu Koko. It has Whirlwind to phase out threats and Slack Off for recovery. Toxic could be used over Stealth Rock to deal with Lando better.
Chansey
My Physical Wall to deal with pretty much everything that hits Physically such as Mega Charizard Y, Lati and Nagandel. Chansey is self explanatory, Soft Boiled, Toxic, Seismic Toss and Counter to be able to KO the heavier hitting Physical Pokemon.
Toucannon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Flash Cannon
Golem-Alola @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Bulu @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
Blastoise @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Counter
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Flash Cannon
Golem-Alola @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Bulu @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
Blastoise @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Counter
Toucannon
Great wallbreaker! Choice Specs,120 Spa, and STAB Boomburst, this paired with Sheer Force-boosted Heat Wave for steel types makes it quite hard to beat.
Alolan Golem
The teams designated trapper. It can come in and deal with Steel-types that free up Toucannon to spam Boomburst. Air Balloon to deal with its Earthquake weakness. Thunderbolt and Fire Blast can kill off both Skarmory and Ferrothorn, Focus Blast and HP Ice as extra coverage.
Tapu Bulu
A good check to Tapu Koko, it can switch terrains and start setting up Calm Minds. Giga Drain and Dazzling Gleam both used for STAB and Synthesis for longevity. Grassy Seed pops on entry with Grassy Terrain and boosts Tapu Bulu's Defense by +1.
Blastoise
Blastoise is the specially defensive Rapid Spinner, being able to come in safely against Swift Swim users such as Swampert and Kingdra. Toxic and Scald to inflict status as well as Mirror Coat to KO them hard hitting special attackers.
Hippowdon
My Special Wall, Hippowdon is used to check Pokemon such as Landorus and Tapu Koko. It has Whirlwind to phase out threats and Slack Off for recovery. Toxic could be used over Stealth Rock to deal with Lando better.
Chansey
My Physical Wall to deal with pretty much everything that hits Physically such as Mega Charizard Y, Lati and Nagandel. Chansey is self explanatory, Soft Boiled, Toxic, Seismic Toss and Counter to be able to KO the heavier hitting Physical Pokemon.
Honestly, the concept is pretty nice but i feel like some mons are just becoming unviable due to this meta, unlike that Gen 6 meta that gave the player the choice of whether or not the mon would have its stats swapped.
In addition to that, the meta would probably be different from the normal play meta, so there could be normal play mons checking Reversed top tiers, for example.
Anyway :
Nihilego @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Head Smash
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
Basically send this against a mon weak to this, force your opponent to switch, Head Smash the switch-in to death, gain speed from that, and enjoy... unless Head Smash misses.
In addition to that, the meta would probably be different from the normal play meta, so there could be normal play mons checking Reversed top tiers, for example.
Anyway :
Nihilego @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Head Smash
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
Basically send this against a mon weak to this, force your opponent to switch, Head Smash the switch-in to death, gain speed from that, and enjoy... unless Head Smash misses.
Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt
- Rock Polish
Reaches 430 Speed after a boost to clean offense (faster than Mega Beedrill and Sceptile) and it even roasts Skarmory with Fire Blast (Thunderbolt can't OHKO it even with Rocks).
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Vacuum Wave / Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon / Ominous Wind
- Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon / Defog / Ominous Wind
- U-turn
- Roost
Vacuum Wave is from the superior Fighting type (thanks Scyther!), but it's not boosted by STAB. Ominous Wind touches everything that Vacuum Wave cannot, but it can also use Defog or one of its STABs.
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt
- Rock Polish
Reaches 430 Speed after a boost to clean offense (faster than Mega Beedrill and Sceptile) and it even roasts Skarmory with Fire Blast (Thunderbolt can't OHKO it even with Rocks).
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Vacuum Wave / Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon / Ominous Wind
- Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon / Defog / Ominous Wind
- U-turn
- Roost
Vacuum Wave is from the superior Fighting type (thanks Scyther!), but it's not boosted by STAB. Ominous Wind touches everything that Vacuum Wave cannot, but it can also use Defog or one of its STABs.
Marshadow really isn't as bad as the OP says it is. I am, however, unsure how to use it, because there's something to decide:
-Run Focus Blast and Shadow Ball for STAB, with Hidden Power to hit a certain threat SE
-Run HP Ghost and Focus Blast with two other moves (Fightinium-Z Power!)
Once you've got that out of the way, you can still enjoy Marshadow's excellent traits:
-125 base Sp.Atk and Speed
-Perfect STAB coverage.
-OK Bulk
-Ability to use Will-O-Wisp, Toxic and Substitute pretty damn well, along with Calm Mind, Foul Play, and potentially even Counter.
-90 Attack is bad, but with Technician Shadow Sneak should still have average power levels for a priority move - maybe a little on the weak end due to lack of EV investment, but not awful.
It's obviously taken a hit with the metagame's changes, but saying it's worse than Nasty Plot Crobat is silly. This thing absolutely does have use, and I'm assuming the OP just forgot about Technician + Hidden Power being great.
On another note, please note that Reshiram may have base 150 attack but base 120 Sp.Atk with Blue Flare is still great and a special/mixed set may still be preferable over physical attacker sets, especially when its only physical Fire STAB is Flame Charge. Not really sure it'll do too well anyway, but 100/120/100 bulk is pretty solid with its attacking power.
-Run Focus Blast and Shadow Ball for STAB, with Hidden Power to hit a certain threat SE
-Run HP Ghost and Focus Blast with two other moves (Fightinium-Z Power!)
Once you've got that out of the way, you can still enjoy Marshadow's excellent traits:
-125 base Sp.Atk and Speed
-Perfect STAB coverage.
-OK Bulk
-Ability to use Will-O-Wisp, Toxic and Substitute pretty damn well, along with Calm Mind, Foul Play, and potentially even Counter.
-90 Attack is bad, but with Technician Shadow Sneak should still have average power levels for a priority move - maybe a little on the weak end due to lack of EV investment, but not awful.
It's obviously taken a hit with the metagame's changes, but saying it's worse than Nasty Plot Crobat is silly. This thing absolutely does have use, and I'm assuming the OP just forgot about Technician + Hidden Power being great.
On another note, please note that Reshiram may have base 150 attack but base 120 Sp.Atk with Blue Flare is still great and a special/mixed set may still be preferable over physical attacker sets, especially when its only physical Fire STAB is Flame Charge. Not really sure it'll do too well anyway, but 100/120/100 bulk is pretty solid with its attacking power.
We had a lengthy discussion about Reshiram in the OM room and it seems a bulkier Reshiram set with Roost and Will o Wisp is probably better than a fully offensive one. Mixed Reshiram could work however both Ferrothorn and Skarmory are specially defensive.
Marshadow does still have potential this meta even with its heavy nerf. That's mainly just down to its typing though, I don't see it being used as much as other special attackers though like the ones mentioned in past posts.
In regards to Reshiram, its mixed sets just plays as Kyurem-B in standard with key changes, being more switchin opportunities but an overall weaker offensive presence. Reshiram although has a great defensive set, its plagued by problems like really common weaknesses and being vulnerable to every hazard. Its still a great mon, but by no means broken.
It is definitely an interesting concept, however it will still have better Speed and Special Attack than what Jirachi has as Speed and Attack, meaning it could just end up still being spammed just needing one more flinch to get a KO. With its Physical movepool being so bad, it would only be used for that reason, I personally see it as noncompetitive and relying on RNG especially with Shaymins speed being so good it can flinch down scarf base 100's pretty comfortably.
I will not be unbanning it anytime soon.
Some possible sets:
Meloetta may be useful in this metagame. This may not be the ideal set, but:
Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Attack
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
Roserade may be okay. Note that it gets Pin Missile if you want to use that. Alternatively, Natural Cure and Power Whip. Roserade doesn't have that many coverage options.
Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Bullet Seed
- Poison Jab
- Spikes
- Sleep Powder
Hustle Togekiss. The meme. The best it gets is Work Up if you want to boost...and it has no physical fairy STAB. Still might by able to smash something.
Togekiss @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sky Attack
- Drain Punch
- Roost
Probably not the best set, but bulky Volcarona might be able to do some damage if Stealth Rocks are cleared.
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Leech Life
- Substitute
- Roost
Meloetta may be useful in this metagame. This may not be the ideal set, but:
Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Attack
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
Roserade may be okay. Note that it gets Pin Missile if you want to use that. Alternatively, Natural Cure and Power Whip. Roserade doesn't have that many coverage options.
Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Bullet Seed
- Poison Jab
- Spikes
- Sleep Powder
Hustle Togekiss. The meme. The best it gets is Work Up if you want to boost...and it has no physical fairy STAB. Still might by able to smash something.
Togekiss @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sky Attack
- Drain Punch
- Roost
Probably not the best set, but bulky Volcarona might be able to do some damage if Stealth Rocks are cleared.
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Leech Life
- Substitute
- Roost
imo, necrozma dawn wings should be strongly considered for an unban. It has basically no viable physical ghost moves, and Moongeist Beam's power has been dramatically reduced. In fact, all it has got in terms of strong, reliable physical STAB is Photon Geyser, which has middling PP. And as for usable physical coverage, it is relegated to EdgeQuake and Knock Off. On top of all of these factors, Dawn Wings still has the same middling flaws it normally has, such as poor speed and a basically useless ability since its only 2 weaknesses are 4x weaknesses which'll kill it regardless of Prism Armor.
157 Attack with dual STAB that is unresisted could be very overcentralizing if you ask me. Prism Armor is a good ability paired with its great defenses allowing to survive SE attacks and KO them back. It does remind me of Reshiram a bit though in stats but I dont see it being brought down, if anything Reshiram will end up going up. It all depends how the meta plays out.
not to mention being part Fire and having the incredible Blue Flare, which gives it near-perfect Dual STAB coverage, along with access to Stone Edge and Flame Charge? it's pretty different tbf :P
sorry but I disagree with this. you shouldn't ban stuff because it's uncompetitive unless it's actually very viable as well, such as trapping, otherwise why the heck do they let you use metronome? give it a chance at least, please. and also, that one more flinch makes a big difference, and Koko (which is flipping everywhere) outspeeds it, as well as it getting beaten by most Mega Sceptiles (which also give it competition) and Naganadel speed ties, or outright outspeeds with Scarf - all of these can smash it to pieces.
skymin wasn't banned from OU entirely because it was uncompetitive, but because it was actually too powerful. here, it has a chance to be balanced, and if it's still OP you can ban it again anyway.
You do mention a good point about how others out speed however a Scarf set has to lose a speed tie to Nagandel in order to be beaten, it has the chance to beat its checks with flinch chance. Tapu Koko does crap all over it however without playing the meta I am unsure of how long it will last in the tier itself. The problem is not just the uncompetitive nature of flinching but mainly the fact I see it being to overcentralizing when building teams. I see both yours and the OPs points and will definitely consider it once the tier is playable and we can get a viability ranking going.