Rhyperior (OU Lead)

[Curtains]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rhyperior

[SET]
name: OU Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Stone Edge/ Rock Slide
move 3: Earthquake/ rest
move 4: Counter
item: Lum berry
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 Def
Ability: Solid Rock

Why this set deserves to be on site:
-Excels at setting up stealth rock
-Very Defensively bulky letting it take attacks that are even super effective
-Good Attack allows it to strike hard against frailer threats.
-Edge Quake combo gives great coverage
-The ev's allow you to never get 2hkoed by lead machamp's dynamic punch allowing you to set up rocks and counter for the ko about ~70% of the time.
-The ev's very very rarely allow you to get 2hkoed without absolute maximum damage by metagross meteor mash without the boost afterwards. Allowing you to set up and counter. basically anything that is not machamp and metagross and physical isn't going to be doing much while you set up rocks and still they are beat.
- I put rest as a slash because this is a great defensive pokemon and it can be helpful mid game as a status absorber.
-Not outclassed by other suicide stealth rockers because of the physical bulk/ mid game help.
-This isn't an anti lead. this is a stealth rocker with the ability to take on/survive against some top leads as well.
-Works like a mini hippowdon with more midgame offensive qualities.

Additional Comments:
-Tyranitar is a good partner that can come in on azelf's special attacks that Rhyperior can't take well, along with the special defense boost given to rhyperior it becomes a great defensive pivot.
-Even without Sand Rhyperior can still come in on flygon and threaten a counter. Scarf jolly outrage does 25.6% - 30.4%
-No lead set on site

Teammates and counters:

-Tyranitar is a good teammate.

-leads/pokemon that carry special fire or water attacks are sure counters to this. This includes specs heatran with hidden power grass.

-Anything that can take special attacks is welcomed like roserade who can then set up spikes in front of vaporeon/starmie.
-Taunt pokemon are a problem so its best to earthquake/ stone edge first

 

[alex 67]

The problem is Azelf, Aerodactyl and Roserade all beat you.

 

[Curtains]

You can still hit both of them and stealth rock later.your losing to rose regardless.

 

[Conflict]

This thing cant be good. Let me explain you why on the basis of Augusts Top 15 leads:

Azelf: Can lay down SR, then U-Turn/Boom or Psychic for hefty damage. Psychic 2hkoes anyways so it can throw out Psychichs early too.... Loss

Machamp: Its faster has an SE attack with 50% Confusion Rate and... yeah you get the deal. Loss

Aerodactyl: Gets the main job auf preventing and laying down SR done. If your Rockattack misses it can even get an attack off. Loss

Metagross: Ok you win. Win

Swampert: It is faster Ice Beam 2hkoes iirc and if it carries Surfor Hydropump you flat out lose. It can lay SR down easily too. Loss

Infernape: Cn FO-> SR _> and then CC or CC before well it does its job and severely damages you. If it has Grass Knot though you lose. Tie

Heatran:If it carries HP [Grass] (not rare on Lead-Tran) you flat out lose. Tie at best, Loss most of the time cause you will switch out in Fear of [HP] Grass (if you dont do you lose maybe an member and it is 6-5 right from the get-go with no SR for you). Loss

Jirachi: Good, good, you win.... Satisfied? Win

Ninjask: Not even worth to speak about but you lose. Loss

Roserade: No explanation - flat out Loss

Hippowdon: Tie but it is better overall due to Slack Off. Loss

Starmie: See Roserade.... Loss

Dragonite: If you can survive an DM its a win but i dont think Rhyperior can so its a Loss

Tyranitar: Win for you due to more power and Defense.

Uxie: It cant harm you most of the time and you cant harm it really. Tie

So after this we can sum up the following:This Rhyperior lead loses against 10 leads, wins against 3 and ties against 2. And Rhyperior with Leftovers is easily walled by quite a few things....

This is definitely a really really bad lead in todays metagame (and will be even if the metagame changes).

 

[Chillarmy]

-Excels at setting up stealth rock
-This isn't an anti lead. this is a stealth rocker with the ability to take on/survive against some top leads as well.
-Works like a mini hippowdon with more midgame offensive qualities

Just because Rhyperior can't prevent SR from other leads doesn't make it terrible since the purpose of this set is to 'take a hit, get up SR and switch back in later with a decent amount of health', but I do agree that this set is bad for a few reasons:

1. Rhyperior is slow, so it's pretty easy to force out
2. Rock / Ground typing isn't best in the lead position due to how many common leads can hit it for SE damage
3. You have to choose between having a weakened / dead Rhyperior or getting up SR in the beginning of the match
4. Counter becomes useless if your opponent doesn't decide to go on the offensive first, limiting its use to only KOing Machamp
5. Rhyperior is sllllllllloooooooooooowwwwwwwwww

I don't see what this set has over the support set that's already on-site, especially since Counter is more of gimmick than anything.

 

[Towelie]

This thing cant be good. Let me explain you why on the basis of Augusts Top 15 leads:

Azelf: Can lay down SR, then U-Turn/Boom or Psychic for hefty damage. Psychic 2hkoes anyways so it can throw out Psychichs early too.... Loss Most azelfs are colbur and can only u turn so it either taunts you and eats a stone edge, or u turns out and you get rocks up/

Machamp: Its faster has an SE attack with 50% Confusion Rate and... yeah you get the deal. Loss. No, lum + counter = win.

Aerodactyl: Gets the main job auf preventing and laying down SR done. If your Rockattack misses it can even get an attack off. Loss. not necessarily a loss because aero gets rocks up on everything bar scarf jirachi.

Metagross: Ok you win. Win

Swampert: It is faster Ice Beam 2hkoes iirc and if it carries Surfor Hydropump you flat out lose. It can lay SR down easily too. Loss. ice beam 3hkos. you both get rocks. tie.

Infernape: Cn FO-> SR _> and then CC or CC before well it does its job and severely damages you. If it has Grass Knot though you lose. Tie gk is never on lead ape, cc without a lo doesnt do much.

Heatran:If it carries HP [Grass] (not rare on Lead-Tran) you flat out lose. Tie at best, Loss most of the time cause you will switch out in Fear of [HP] Grass (if you dont do you lose maybe an member and it is 6-5 right from the get-go with no SR for you). Loss hows it a loss? you assume all heatran use hp grass. eq kos thru shuca.

Jirachi: Good, good, you win.... Satisfied? Win

Ninjask: Not even worth to speak about but you lose. Loss
ya, this is a loss if stone edge misses.

Roserade: No explanation - flat out Loss ya but so does pert but its still used as a lead.

Hippowdon: Tie but it is better overall due to Slack Off. Loss not a loss at all, you both get rocks up AND ss gives you better spdef.

Starmie: See Roserade.... Loss yep, this is a loss.

Dragonite: If you can survive an DM its a win but i dont think Rhyperior can so its a Loss


yes you can survive a dm. you fail to realize while rhyperior does have bad spdef, it has a ridiculous hp stat and can take a shit load of hits.
Tyranitar: Win for you due to more power and Defense.

Uxie: It cant harm you most of the time and you cant harm it really. Tie

So after this we can sum up the following:This Rhyperior lead loses against 10 leads, wins against 3 and ties against 2. And Rhyperior with Leftovers is easily walled by quite a few things....

incorrect

This is definitely a really really bad lead in todays metagame (and will be even if the metagame changes).

im not saying this is a great lead, but damn at least get your lead analysis right.

 

[zapper22001]

This seems like a cool lead set. I'll be sure to try this out on future test teams. However I question whether Counter is worth its moveset slot and whether it should be slashed with Rest. Out of the top 15 leads, the only ones that are physical are Machamp, Aerodactyl, Metagross, Swampert, Infernape, Jirachi, Hippowdon, Dragonite, and Tyranitar.

With Machamp, Counter is useful because it has a good chance to get the KO on Machamp without having to bet on a confusion rate if you try to go for the 2HKO with Earthquake, but the downside is that you cannot set up Stealth Rock and you are at extremely low health which is never a good tradeoff for a bulky pokemon like Rhyperior.

Against Aerodactyl, Rock Slide/Stone Edge is the supperior option in this match up as the benefit of Rock Slide/Stone Edge is that you can attack Aerodactyl as they Taunt you and then attack again when they die without having to wait for them to attack you so you can Counter which is a reckless loss of health for Rhyperior.

Metagross cannot 2HKO you with Meteor Mash, but Counter is the superior option in this case as it also gives you the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock with a minimal loss of health and Counter also lets you KO Metagross.

Swampert's Ice Beam never 2HKO's so both of you get down Stealth Rock and switch out next turn. Counter really doesn't have much use in this match unless Swampert decides to stay in and Earthquake you to death which makes Counter the ideal move to use.

Infernape only beats you when it has Grass Knot so Counter isn't useful. Since most don't, you can win the matchup just by using Earthquake.

Jirachi only has a chance of winning if it has a ridiculous amount of flinches; otherwise, it dies fairly easily.

Hippowdon is not the ideal opponent to Counter against as it has Slack Off to recover damage though it is cool that Counter gets the 2HKO on Hippowdon if it decides to stay in and wall you.

Dragonite gets the OHKO with Draco Meteor.

For Tyranitar, Counter isn't really needed and Earthquake gets the easy 2HKO.

Overall, Counter only really helps against Metagross, Swampert and Machamp. (If I am not playing these leads the way they should be played, then please be sure to point it out :)) Because of this, I would probably slash it with Rest instead of Earthquake as Earthquake is a core move against many of the leads. Rest has the benefit of giving mid game survivability which is great when your Lum Berry hasn't been used up yet. It is nice because Rhyperior is such a bulky pokemon too.

All in all, a very cool set.

 

[Curtains]

I suck at quoting so yeah....

Azelf: Can lay down SR, then U-Turn/Boom or Psychic for hefty damage. Psychic 2hkoes anyways so it can throw out Psychichs early too.... Loss

Explosion does nothing, u turn is a tickle and taunt can be dealt with stone edge.

Machamp: Its faster has an SE attack with 50% Confusion Rate and... yeah you get the deal. Loss

yeah counter.Stealth rock. Its in the op not exactly a loss and i do have lum berry.

Aerodactyl: Gets the main job auf preventing and laying down SR done. If your Rockattack misses it can even get an attack off. Loss

I can hit it hard with stone edge

Metagross: Ok you win. Win

Swampert: It is faster Ice Beam 2hkoes iirc and if it carries Surfor Hydropump you flat out lose. It can lay SR down easily too. Loss

33.3% - 39.6% ice beam so no.

Infernape: Cn FO-> SR _> and then CC or CC before well it does its job and severely damages you. If it has Grass Knot though you lose. Tie

I do my job too and im at good health i call this a win.

Heatran:If it carries HP [Grass] (not rare on Lead-Tran) you flat out lose. Tie at best, Loss most of the time cause you will switch out in Fear of [HP] Grass (if you dont do you lose maybe an member and it is 6-5 right from the get-go with no SR for you). Loss

Yeah

Jirachi: Good, good, you win.... Satisfied? Win

Ninjask: Not even worth to speak about but you lose. Loss

depends if stone edge hits

Roserade: No explanation - flat out Loss

agreed

Hippowdon: Tie but it is better overall due to Slack Off. Loss

rocks are the goal here

Starmie: See Roserade.... Loss

Dragonite: If you can survive an DM its a win but i dont think Rhyperior can so its a Loss

it needs 120 special def to survive. Okay you got me

Tyranitar: Win for you due to more power and Defense.

Uxie: It cant harm you most of the time and you cant harm it really. Tie

win for me i got rocks up


Edit: Counter has great midgame play especially if your up against something like flygon.

 

[shartruce]

Anti lead dragonite's draco meteor vs this rhyperior's spread: 101.2 % - 119.1 %

So it definitely loses to dragonite too, you can maybe mention focus sash as a possibility to beat starmie, dragonite, and maybe heatran, but thats about it

 

[Curtains]

Focus sash seems nice because in reality im only using lum for machamp and smeargle.And stone edge is a ko i think.Its worth thinking about.

 

[Aeron Ee1]

An EV Spread of 252 HP / 20 Atk / 124 Def / 112 SpD with an Impish nature would guarantee Max Attack Metagross' Meteor Mash, Mamoswine's Earthquake and Machamp's DynamicPunch can't 2hko bar a crit or attack boost while the SpD EVs make it so LeadNite's Draco Meteor can't OHKO either, allowing you to either set up Rocks or eliminate it with Stone Edge. I didn't notice any KOs you miss out on with losing the Attack EVs, but correct me if I'm wrong..

 

[zapper22001]

Edit: Counter has great midgame play especially if your up against something like flygon.

I don't see the relevance of this as why would anyone try to take on a Rhyperior with something as weak as a Flygon(assuming something like Choice Scarf and even for a different set...) when they could use a strong Special Attacker like Starmie.

 

[Windsong]

OK, I'm not sure, and I may be wrong on game mechanics or something, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Rock Blast be a solid option on this set? Sure, it often hits with less power than Stone Edge or Rock Slide, but it has the added benefit of KOing Pokemon like Infernape, Azelf, and Aerodactyl through their Sash.

However, like I said, I'm not sure on this, but if it does work, I'd think it would be a good option.

Otherwise, looks like an okay set, I'll probably test it at some point.

 

[Royal Flush]

OK, I'm not sure, and I may be wrong on game mechanics or something, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Rock Blast be a solid option on this set? Sure, it often hits with less power than Stone Edge or Rock Slide, but it has the added benefit of KOing Pokemon like Infernape, Azelf, and Aerodactyl through their Sash.

However, like I said, I'm not sure on this, but if it does work, I'd think it would be a good option.

Otherwise, looks like an okay set, I'll probably test it at some point.

Unfortunately (or fortunately for the Sashmons), Focus Sash allows the user to survive Rock Blast (and other multi-hit moves) at full health.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

interesting set, however, It seems outclassed for the most part by Tyannitar. Tyrannitar is much bulkier on the special and can actual live through a hit or two, it also has sandstream. I also don't think Rhyperior excels at this, it's better as a sweeper, than a lead. I also don't see how this set, will offer any "midgame help" since by that time it will probably have around 50% or lower, and as slow as snail. now, evs wise, I think, Aeron Ee1's spread looks decent to me, however, I would switch the remaining 20 evs, into SpD, since Rhyperior already has 316 attack. Here's the modified Ev spread: 252 HP /124 Def/132 SpD

 

[Aeron Ee1]

Unfortunately (or fortunately for the Sashmons), Focus Sash allows the user to survive Rock Blast (and other multi-hit moves) at full health.

I think there's a bug on Shoddy and you can KO leads with Rock Blast through their sashes. However, bug-exploiting on analysis(es?) isn't encouraged.. at all.. i think...

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Just as a tiny nitpick, *always* use your nature to boost your higher stat. 252 HP / 44 Atk / 216 Def Adamant gives you the same stats except for +1 Defense.

That said, let's look at a *real* analysis of leads.

Azelf: I believe this is the worst matchup possible when facing Azelf, which is pretty disappointing, because Azelf IS still the #1 lead after all. The regular old Azelf or Colbur Azelf will Taunt and SR anyway, and you have a straight 36% chance to fail against them due to Stone Edge's accuracy. Dual Screen cares even less, since it's going to screen and SR against you, except you have an even lower chance of success killing Azelf. TrickScarf just shits all over you, since you're either locked into SR afterwards and setup fodder or useless, or you Stone Edge and it outspeeds, tricks, STILL outspeeds after the Trick, and SRs, then sets something up on Stone Edge.

Machamp: If you want SR, you have to gamble with a <50% chance of successfully killing Machamp (6.25% to be CHed on the first DPunch, 6.25% chance to be CHed on the second DPunch, 50% chance to be confused after the second DPunch adds up to a ~44% chance of success). You "win" less than half of the time, making it unreliable at best. And that's assuming that they don't just switch out entirely fearing an Earthquake.

Aerodactyl: Like with Azelf, 36% chance to get raped by Stone Edge's shitty accuracy. You still get Taunted and SR'd on, and if you're unlucky, you even take a decent bit from EQ. Loss, because the only thing you can manage to do is give a suicide lead its wish, and your SR is stopped. Oh, and 64% chance to 2HKO is disappointint.

Metagross: Iffy at best. You have the 6.25% to get CHed twice, plus the 20% chance that the first Meteor Mash KOs, plus the chance that the opponent rolls max damage twice. Also, Metagross has the option of getting SR and then just getting the hell out of dodge, which is a neutral matchup considering you're not doing anything on the switch with Counter, and the likelihood they have something even marginally competent that can OHKO Rhyperior is very large. Neutral if they set up SR, ~70% positive if they straight up attack. If Metagross is running 252 Attack, the chance of 2HKO gets bumped up slightly, reducing the chance to ~60%.

Swampert: Neutral leaning toward loss. Both get SR up, but Rhyperior EQ 4HKOs versus Swampert's 3HKO with Ice Beam, and even Relaxed Swampert outspeeds. Surf variants flat out annihilate you in one hit with Surf, dealing 99.6% minimum.

Infernape: Taunt variants pull the standard "prevent SR" bit. Encore variants turn you into setup fodder after you SR, forcing you to switch something into a sashed Infernape as it SRs. Ballsy people can just attack you for an easy 3HKO with Close Combat as you SR and then break their sash. Endeavor variants leave you at 1 HP, making Rhyperior death fodder at worst. This is literally a case where "neutral" is the best you can manage, and you're both getting SR and you're losing 67-79% HP from 2 Close Combats, plus whatever pittance Fake Out manages.

Heatran: Either this thing has HP Grass and toasts you, it's Specs and toasts you, or it sets up SR and then dies (barring min damage from EQ). This is either a decent matchup (SR for death) or a terrible matchup (you die instantly). If you opt to SR as your first move, Earth Power 2HKOs you. Iffy matchup at best, godawful at worst.

Jirachi: Because of Trick, you have 2 options here: EQ as your first move and get locked into EQ and forced to switch out (with the off-hand chance that you roll below-average damage and fail to KO with Earthquake), or SR as your first move and get locked into SR with a 100% Jirachi up. If people really want to be lucky jerks, Iron Head is a 4HKO FWIW. "Win" most of the time, barring flinchax or bad damage rolls, but you either don't get SR or don't deal any damage, and either way you're "cripped" with a scarf.

Ninjask: Flat-out loss. Now you have to contend with Stone Edge's miss chance FOUR times, knowing that a miss as Ninjask Substitutes means a Swords Dance pass as well, and if you want to even ATTEMPT to stop Ninjask, you need to sacrifice SR. Either way, it still passes +4 Speed, with a 60% chance to pass +2 Attack (100% chance if you lay down SR). Loss, worse than possibly anything else can lose.

Roserade: Loss. You get blasted into next week by Leaf Storm. Indefensible loss.

OTHER NOTABLE LEADS

Dragonite: OHKOs with Draco Meteor. Loss.

Skarmory: Spikes for free, you do nothing to stop it. Loss.

Starmie: Instant loss to its Water STAB. Loss.

Gliscor: Taunts you, you do piss poor damage, doesn't have to attack directly since it uses Toxic. Loss.

Bronzong: You can't touch it, it can peck away at you with Hidden Power, Screen if it wants, etc. Neutral leaning toward loss, since you at least get SR.

Forretress: 252/144 Forretress can barely be 4HKOed by Earthquake. It gets Spikes up as much as it wants, and can spin your stuff away if it wants too.

Uxie: It either Tricks a Scarf, cripping Rhyperior and getting free SR, or it sets up screens and puts up SR. Neither is good for you. Loss.

Smeargle: Spores twice. You have 2 options: SR, leaving you with a sleeping Rhyperior and 2 turns for Smeargle to set up whatever it wants due to its Focus Sash, or attack, leaving Smeargle with only 1 turn to do its job, but don't get SR up. Neither is good for you. Neutral leaning toward loss.

This is terrible, and it's not even any better midgame. This lead simply doesn't function against opposing leads, and the few times that it does win, it's a dubious win.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[remlabmez]

a lead that isn't that bad, but when I think about it ryhperior is much better off doing this when there's sand up so his supporting abilities are much better. I mean its a decent lead and all but I would much prefer to take advantage of its strengths. plus all the stuff that SDS said

QC REJECTED (2/3)

 

[Setsuna]

A very detailed explanation from Seven Deadly Sins, which I agree with.

It looks like we all feel the same way about this lead,s o unfortunately I'll have to lock this thread. However, don't hesitate to try again at a later date.