RIP Troy Davis

[rubixlx0]

Saying someone deserves to die is not right. No one deserves to die. Yes, even though they did something very horrible they should just keep them in jail then.

Considering you don't support the death penalty. Do you support abortion? How do you feel that you have to pay tax dollars for some sick bastard to live the rest of his life in jail? If a person killed your most loved one would you want them to live knowing they have no remorse?

Also, I'm sick of the race card being played in this case. The NAACP said it was a racist act. They say that no person deserves to die. What about the guy from Texas who killed the black man? Do they believe the same thing? The amount of times the race card is played makes me more sick to my stomach than this case. The man was convicted. He obviously didn't have a good enough defense. From the evidence did he deserve to die? From even a conservative point of view, he should have had another trial chance. But that's another thing wrong with the justice system. They let pedophiles, rapists, child killers and terrorists live, but they don't even take in to consideration that 7 out of 9 people recanted their statement. So did Troy deserve to die? I don't know. If he did indeed do it, he deserved to die. If not, then it was yet another miscarriage of justice like the OJ case and the Casey Anthony case.

I'm pretty sure it costs more to convict and execute than incarcerating a person for life.

No actually the execution process only costs so much because of all of the appeals. Because of the lawyers and anti-death penalty supporters that demand an appeal be made, the death penalty costs more. Plus you have to house the inmate for a very long time. Take Richard Ramirez as an example. He was sentenced to death in 1982. Where is he? STILL ON DEATH ROW. It would have cost less to execute him than it would to appeal the sentence of a clearly remorseless and sociopathic killer over these twenty nine years.

 

[iDunno]

I'm sick of black people thinking they can get away with anything just because they're black.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Considering you don't support the death penalty. Do you support abortion? How do you feel that you have to pay tax dollars for some sick bastard to live the rest of his life in jail? If a person killed your most loved one would you want them to live knowing they have no remorse?

What does abortion have to do with the death penalty?

And I don't think you understand what the purpose of jail is. Jail is not a punishment. It is a place where you put people who aren't capable of living in normal society without hurting others. Jail should ideally be rehabilitative, and if that's not possible, it should serve to isolate criminal elements from the rest of society. Revenge should not ever come into question when discussing how to treat criminals - that's barbarous.

No actually the execution process only costs so much because of all of the appeals. Because of the lawyers and anti-death penalty supporters that demand an appeal be made, the death penalty costs more. Plus you have to house the inmate for a very long time. Take Richard Ramirez as an example. He was sentenced to death in 1982. Where is he? STILL ON DEATH ROW. It would have cost less to execute him than it would to appeal the sentence of a clearly remorseless and sociopathic killer over these twenty nine years.

Are you implying that we should eliminate our system of appeals? The death penalty should be accompanied by a large number of expensive mandatory appeals if it's going to exist. I'm kind of shocked that you would think otherwise, especially considering that even with our current system there have been several people that were wrongfully executed.

 

[Killah]

To everyone claiming "racism" as the reason he was not granted clemency, remember that the Supreme Court had the power to stop the execution and denied the petition. So if there was enough evidence to overturn the decision, then the Supreme Court must be racist too!

that being said white people in the south (not all, but a lot) are hugely racist

Would you care to elaborate? Please use small words so a racist uneducated southerner like me can understand.

 

[Nastyjungle]

way to twist my words

how about i slow down for you

lots of people in the south are racist

was that stright forward enough

 

[rubixlx0]

What does abortion have to do with the death penalty?

And I don't think you understand what the purpose of jail is. Jail is not a punishment. It is a place where you put people who aren't capable of living in normal society without hurting others. Jail should ideally be rehabilitative, and if that's not possible, it should serve to isolate criminal elements from the rest of society. Revenge should not ever come into question when discussing how to treat criminals - that's barbarous.



Are you implying that we should eliminate our system of appeals? The death penalty should be accompanied by a large number of expensive mandatory appeals if it's going to exist. I'm kind of shocked that you would think otherwise, especially considering that even with our current system there have been several people that were wrongfully executed.

I was just asking if he supported abortion because typically, people who are against the death penalty support abortion. And no we should not eliminate the system of appeals. There shouldn't be such an overwhelming amount of them. Nine times out of ten depending on the state you are in, the appeal either goes through or is denied. For example, in Texas, a typically Republican state, the appeals would be denied. In California, a typically liberal state, the appeals would go through. People who have no remorse, and 100% killed someone in cold blood do not deserve an appeal end of story. For example, terrorists the man who committed the hate crime in Texas that was executed deserved to die. He should not have gotten an appeal. And simply on the fact that it was a hate crime, I would have people agreeing with me. Conversely, a killer like Richard Ramirez, people believe he could be rehabilitated. People who commit vicious crimes are sentenced to death for a reason. THEY CANNOT BE REHABILITATED. And I understand the point of jail. I don't understand the point of cold blooded killers spending the rest of their lives in jail off my tax dollars.

way to twist my words

how about i slow down for you

lots of people in the south are racist

was that stright forward enough

Yes and there are plenty of people in the North who are racist. For example, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are racists. White supremacists are racists. There are plenty of racists and there are plenty of people who are not racist.

 

[az]

I was just asking if he supported abortion because typically, people who are against the death penalty support abortion.

i believe you'll find exactly the opposite to be true

 

[kakky]

I don't think you have any appreciation whatsoever for American race relations, let alone how they were 20 years ago.

I don't think you have any appreciation for my appreciation. Regardless of race relations, my point was more about the fact that a "jury selected from his peers" unanimously found him guilty. The only room left for accusations of racism is for the handlers of the evidence, or presenters thereof, because you're basically saying that racism is the root cause of the jury being fooled into delivering a false verdict. A jury that more than likely had at least one black person in it.

If you're going to start fingering people you don't know and have no idea about for things based entirely on assumption, then you might as well start professing the conspiracy theories I used to. Besides, you're a law student, you should know that the system is designed to exclude personal opinion as much as humanly possible. Everything can only be about race up to a certain point but I think you may have lost the scope of that.

 

[rubixlx0]

i believe you'll find exactly the opposite to be true

Yeah but democrats are against the death penalty because they feel that no person deserves to die. They are for abortion because they fetus is too young to be important to them and they believe the woman's choice is more important than moral values. Republicans believe in the death penalty because they believe that the person to be put to death had their chance to live and chose to live it by killing a person (s). Republicans are against abortion because they believe everyone should have a chance to live. The human fetus did not get a chance to live. The person on death row did.

 

[Nastyjungle]

Yes and there are plenty of people in the North who are racist. For example, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are racists. White supremacists are racists. There are plenty of racists and there are plenty of people who are not racist.

that's true
but if you really think we live in a world where racism is divided equally among the country then you really don't know what's going on


edit:

If you're going to start fingering people you don't know

i think you might have meant pointing fingers but

 

[rubixlx0]

that's true
but if you really think we live in a world where racism is divided equally among the country then you really don't know what's going on


edit:


i think you might have meant pointing fingers but

Like you told the person who responded to you, don't twist my words. Never did I say racism was spread out equally. To be honest with you, in this day in age, I believe there are less racists compared to non racists. You said there were racists in the south and I said true, but there are also racists in the north and the east and the west. ><

 

[az]

how many times are you gonna go round in circles

nj's point is there are more racists in the south

 

[rubixlx0]

How am I going around in circles. Someone makes a statement. I make my point. That isnt going around in circles.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I was just asking if he supported abortion because typically, people who are against the death penalty support abortion.

Had you considered that this might be because most criminals are generally not a small collection of cells in a woman's uterus?

People who have no remorse, and 100% killed someone in cold blood do not deserve an appeal end of story. For example, terrorists the man who committed the hate crime in Texas that was executed deserved to die. He should not have gotten an appeal.

You realize that appeals are in place precisely to determine whether a person committed a crime or not, right? Saying "if they committed the crime they don't deserve an appeal" is completely meaningless, since the very point of an appeal is to determine whether they committed the crime or not (unless the offender had plead guilty).

And I understand the point of jail.

Evidently not. You say things like "killers deserve to die" and "they shouldn't be in jail on my tax dollars", when in reality both of these statements run counter to what a penal system in any civilized society should be.

We shouldn't execute people because execution is far more irreversible than jail time, meaning that any possible mistakes in the justice system has monumentally greater impact. We shouldn't execute people because execution is a barbaric emotional response, which our legal system should be above. Unrepentant killers don't deserve death, they deserve pity and a basic standard of care in jail until they die.

It's astounding to me that the death penalty is still legal in the 21st century, especially given the abysmal track record when it comes to the accuracy of death row convictions. It's especially funny because torturing an inmate is illegal, starving them is illegal, but killing them is perfectly legal. If by your argument death row criminals no longer have a right to life, why should they have a right to basic human dignity?
(I'm hoping this rhetorical questions makes you understand the flaw in your thinking but I'm really afraid you're going to meet it with "there's nothing wrong with torturing criminals")

 

[rubixlx0]

Had you considered that this might be because most criminals are generally not a small collection of cells in a woman's uterus?



You realize that appeals are in place precisely to determine whether a person committed a crime or not, right? Saying "if they committed the crime they don't deserve an appeal" is completely meaningless, since the very point of an appeal is to determine whether they committed the crime or not (unless the offender had plead guilty).



Evidently not. You say things like "killers deserve to die" and "they shouldn't be in jail on my tax dollars", when in reality both of these statements run counter to what a penal system in any civilized society should be.

We shouldn't execute people because execution is far more irreversible than jail time, meaning that any possible mistakes in the justice system has monumentally greater impact. We shouldn't execute people because execution is a barbaric emotional response, which our legal system should be above. Unrepentant killers don't deserve death, they deserve pity and a basic standard of care in jail until they die.

It's astounding to me that the death penalty is still legal in the 21st century, especially given the abysmal track record when it comes to the accuracy of death row convictions. It's especially funny because torturing an inmate is illegal, starving them is illegal, but killing them is perfectly legal. If by your argument death row criminals no longer have a right to life, why should they have a right to basic human dignity?
(I'm hoping this rhetorical questions makes you understand the flaw in your thinking but I'm really afraid you're going to meet it with "there's nothing wrong with torturing criminals")

But abortion basically throws all moral principles out the window. The more abortion occurs the more accepted it is. For example, a teenage girl could sleep around and have no fear because if she gets pregnant, she'll just get an abortion. That's why I don't support abortion. Because it doesn't give a child a chance to live and it is morally wrong.

I believe people should be executed because those people commit crimes that are worthy of the ultimate punishment. While I do respect your views, I disagree with them. The only thing about the death penalty is that like you said its irreversible. But I believe in the eye for an eye principle. If you kill someone you deserve to have your life taken. It's barbaric that these remorseless sick fucks can live while the family of the victim has to wake up everyday knowing that this person lived, while their loved one died.

"Unrepentant killers don't deserve death, they deserve pity and a basic standard of care in jail until they die."
Ok let me give you a scenario. And please answer truthfully. Your mother/father are at home with you. A person forces their way into your home ties you all up and makes you watch as they kill your parents. Do you believe they should be alive. Do you believe they deserve pity. Take the 9/11 terrorist plotters. They were responsible for nearly 3,000 deaths. My father was almost killed on that day by chance. Do they deserve pity? Do they deserve to be treated in a civilized manner? What your saying is basically unrealistic and should never occur. You don't nurture and pity a person who doesn't pity those they killed.

 

[Killah]

way to twist my words

how about i slow down for you

lots of people in the south are racist

was that stright forward enough

nj's point is there are more racists in the south

just pointing out that "lots of people in the south are racist" does not mean the same thing as "lots of racist people live in the south"

and I really hope Az was right about you meaning the latter

 

[Vineon]

Jail is not a punishment. It is a place where you put people who aren't capable of living in normal society without hurting others.

I'll just chime in here annoyed that this went unnoticed.

Jail time is not designed to be pleasant and many of your basic rights are taken all the way up to the right to vote, in certain places. Yes it serves to separate convicts from the rest of society but it certainly does also serve as punishment.

 

[az]

yeah jail is definitely a punishment, along with a protection for the public, deterrent, correctional device etc etc

honestly the only sentence you could be given that could arguably not touch upon punishment is the death sentence

 

[Synre]

OK instead of this just being a 7th grade level argument on capital punishment apparently it's now a 7th grade level argument on abortion too. i'm just going to lock this instead of trying to clean it up because this argument is hopeless without just wiping the thread and telling the posters who have most of the posts here not to post. Not much people can comment on that's actually on topic with the OP at this point, anyway.


brb altchecking rubixlx0 to see if hes jman