Agreed. Chlorophyll seems to be the go to Ability with most Grass, but GF trolled us saying "Lets shake things up a bit" and gave us Leaf Guard, and lose it for Technician, which isn't awful, but isn't wanted.
GF TROLL Wins
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Roserade
- Thread starter ck49
- Start date
Agreed. Chlorophyll seems to be the go to Ability with most Grass, but GF trolled us saying "Lets shake things up a bit" and gave us Leaf Guard, and lose it for Technician, which isn't awful, but isn't wanted.
GF TROLL Wins
To clarify (since even now people are confused?), when you get Budew from the Dream World, it has Leaf Guard. Budew -> Roselia still Leaf Guard. Roselia -> Roserade is when the ability changes to Technician. If it breeds, then the Budew will have Leaf Guard. Capiche?
Anyway, Roserade is looking good this gen. IIRC under weather, Weather Ball is boosted from 75 BP Normal, to 150 BP Fire/Water/Rock/Ice (although who would run Rosey in Sand or Hail?). You could abuse this under weather, and even if out, you have a 75 BP move which isn't useless. I could see a Tech abuse set. Doesn't get alot to abuse it though... :(
Roserade @ LO/Leftovers
Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Magical Leaf
Weather Ball
HP Ground (BP 59)
Sleep Powder/Leech Seed/Swift?
Edit: I don't know. I was confused. ._.
Anyway, Roserade is looking good this gen. IIRC under weather, Weather Ball is boosted from 75 BP Normal, to 150 BP Fire/Water/Rock/Ice (although who would run Rosey in Sand or Hail?). You could abuse this under weather, and even if out, you have a 75 BP move which isn't useless. I could see a Tech abuse set. Doesn't get alot to abuse it though... :(
Roserade @ LO/Leftovers
Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Magical Leaf
Weather Ball
HP Ground (BP 59)
Sleep Powder/Leech Seed/Swift?
Edit: I don't know. I was confused. ._.
I hadn't noticed people being confused TBH. Roserades niche comes in its High special attack and Weather Ball. Incoming Rain? You have a 150 Water move. Sand? 150 Rock. Sun is great too, SolarBeam (if you will) and WB Fire will rock. Plus you still have an open HP to use.
I run a roserade set with max hp evs and special defense, with leaf storm, toxic spikes, sleep powder, and rest. It destroys most waters, including rotom-w, and sets up on them. If something thinks it can set up on you, sleep powder and run. Rest is for infinite walling capabilities. You can replace it with leech seed, but be advised that roserade will die a lot faster with that.
Sandstorm does not give a boost to Rock-type attacks if the user does not have the Sand Force ability
Ah yes that's correct, my bad, it just ran off the keyboard. The only 150's are in Rain and Sun. Sorry ^^'
I have been using a set like aromatherapy/sleep powder/leaf storm/hp fire holding leftovers since a few days and it has worked very well for me. IIRC, this is the only viable mon who can remove toxic spikes, use aromatherapy, pack some decent power and even sleep powder at the same time.
I admit it is specialized but unlike some other supporters like blissey, it does not suck offensively.
I will try out a t-spikes set later but my team does not really need t-spikes(atleast not as much as a cleric).
Definitely under-rated. Do try it out people.^^
I admit it is specialized but unlike some other supporters like blissey, it does not suck offensively.
I will try out a t-spikes set later but my team does not really need t-spikes(atleast not as much as a cleric).
Definitely under-rated. Do try it out people.^^
You could just run leaf storm, and thus make it a pretty good status absorber, and a much better check/counter to rotom-w. Leaf storm is still stronger, and after using a grass-type STAB you should probably run anyways, considering all the quadresists and bulky resists in this metagame.
Offensive Roserade is a beast in this meta, It's so good a taking a hit, then pivoting and firing off and absurdly powerful move/sleep something/support its team. My favorite set has to be:
@ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
142 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 116 Spe or 68 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 190 Spe
Trait: Natural Cure
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
142 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 116 Spe or 68 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 190 Spe
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest/Aromatherapy
Can Roserade take on Keldeo? I am suspicious oh how well it takes secrete sword even after the resist, Roserade has really bad defense, it makes Blissey look like it has decent physical defense.
thinking of specs keldeo here, it won't fare too well if it's on the defense (rade's phys def really does suck and if you invest enough to take a secret sword, you get washed away by rain hydro pump) but an uninvested leaf storm will shred keldeo, and even at +1 sdef, a 0satk rade does a ton with leaf storm.
i personally think all out offensive rade is outclassed in OU; celebi is much bulkier (and rade's bulk disadvantage is really really costly in OU) and faster (90 speed is kinda shitty right now). this ends up making rade a relatively easy threat to check. in addition celebi has better coverage than rade by far (earth power destroys heatran). rade does have more punch and its typing is arguably better (ugh psychic is the worst) but i never really get the feeling that rade's got everything it takes. at least defensive rade has a niche in OU since it has hazards + natcure rest + aromatherapy; offensive rade's niche is a lot smaller in comparison
i personally think all out offensive rade is outclassed in OU; celebi is much bulkier (and rade's bulk disadvantage is really really costly in OU) and faster (90 speed is kinda shitty right now). this ends up making rade a relatively easy threat to check. in addition celebi has better coverage than rade by far (earth power destroys heatran). rade does have more punch and its typing is arguably better (ugh psychic is the worst) but i never really get the feeling that rade's got everything it takes. at least defensive rade has a niche in OU since it has hazards + natcure rest + aromatherapy; offensive rade's niche is a lot smaller in comparison
Thats true, but Roserade hits so much harder than Celebi, a modest Leaf Storm with a Life Orb nearly matches the power of Specs Latios Draco Meteor, albeit with worse neutral coverage. So while it may be outclassed in some respects, it has a niche for sure.
Alright a few examples against different Keldeo sets, and using two different Roserade sets.
The sets I'm assuming are:
- CM Keldeo: 4 HP 252 SATK 252 SPE Timid Leftovers
- Specs Keldeo: 4 HP 252 SATK 252 SPE Timid Choice Specs
-Offensive Roserade: 4 HP 252 SATK 252 SPE Timid Leftovers
-SDEF Roserade: 252 HP 252 SDEF 4 SATK Timid Leftovers
Obviously those sets aren't 100% accurate, but I felt they were accurate enough to provide realistic calcs.
CM Keldeo vs offensive Roserade:
- Secret Sword: 111-132 (42.36 - 50.38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
At +1:
- Secret Sword: 167-197 (63.74 - 75.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
CM Keldeo vs SDEF Roserade:
- Secret Sword: 111-132 (34.25 - 40.74%) -- 54.08% chance to 3HKO
At +1:
- Secret Sword: 167-197 (51.54 - 60.8%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
So by that Roserade is quite a good check to CM Keldeo. If using the offensive variant of Roserade (252SATK/252SPE Timid), Leaf Storm is a clean OHKO dealing 150.61 - 177.77%. Or if Keldeo is at +1, 100 - 118.51%.
So Roserade will easily win a match up versus a CM Keldeo unless is a specially defensive Roserade coming in as Keldeo boosts, or is already boosted.
As for a specs Keldeo:
Specs Keldeo vs offensive Roserade
- Secret Sword: 167-197 (63.74 - 75.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Specs Keldeo vs SDEF Roserade
- Secret Sword: 167-197 (51.54 - 60.8%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
As you can see, Roserade actually can check Keldeo quite decently.
Okay, so I'm writing the Roserade analysis, and unfortunately Technician is not released :(
But yeah, Roserade's base 90 Speed is one of its best assets, so if you're aiming for Speed, 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe with a Timid nature (assuming HP Fire) puts you at 300 Speed, making you faster than neutral base 100s - a bit rare, admittedly, but when you outspeed that Salamence before it DDs, remember what I told you!
alkine, offensive Roserade has the strongest Leaf Storm outside of Ubers (beaten by Shaymin-S [does it learn Leaf Storm?] and tying with Exeggutor), and is an excellent offensive grounded Poison-type for weatherless teams. Having Sleep Powder is pretty awesome (take THAT, Celebi!), and Aromatherapy's cool too. Roserade also has Sludge Bomb to hit and possibly status Dragons on the switch, and Poison's coverage is slightly better than that of Psychic.
But yeah, Roserade's base 90 Speed is one of its best assets, so if you're aiming for Speed, 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe with a Timid nature (assuming HP Fire) puts you at 300 Speed, making you faster than neutral base 100s - a bit rare, admittedly, but when you outspeed that Salamence before it DDs, remember what I told you!
alkine, offensive Roserade has the strongest Leaf Storm outside of Ubers (beaten by Shaymin-S [does it learn Leaf Storm?] and tying with Exeggutor), and is an excellent offensive grounded Poison-type for weatherless teams. Having Sleep Powder is pretty awesome (take THAT, Celebi!), and Aromatherapy's cool too. Roserade also has Sludge Bomb to hit and possibly status Dragons on the switch, and Poison's coverage is slightly better than that of Psychic.
shaymin doesn't need leaf storm when it gets seed flare, which is obviously superior; the special defense drop is enough force out pink blobs and that's something almost no special attacker in the game is capable of
ultimately all the things being said about roserade are true, but there is a reason it's in UU and not OU. zip for bulk (special bulk is okay but base 60 hp kinda sucks, and it has less physical bulk than freaking misdreavus) and subpar speed (not bad among grass types, true, but base 90 is low low low for OU) are difficult to get past no matter how you try to use it. celebi has that god awful psychic typing (god psychic sucks!) but bigtime bulk advantage pays dividends in every role it plays. it would probably do the same for roserade as well... if it had much bulk, that is.
ultimately all the things being said about roserade are true, but there is a reason it's in UU and not OU. zip for bulk (special bulk is okay but base 60 hp kinda sucks, and it has less physical bulk than freaking misdreavus) and subpar speed (not bad among grass types, true, but base 90 is low low low for OU) are difficult to get past no matter how you try to use it. celebi has that god awful psychic typing (god psychic sucks!) but bigtime bulk advantage pays dividends in every role it plays. it would probably do the same for roserade as well... if it had much bulk, that is.
Psychic sucks? Fighting types say hello. Also learning recover-natural cure rest is cool, but you're forced out. And don't even get me started on the number of psychic types it beats down... (Seriously, don't. It's not very many, if at all.)
Alk, of course not, he was just saying shaymin-S might have a stronger leaf storm, more of a technicality. I'd also like to point out that amoonguss has eaten a lot of roserade's share of usage recently-absorbs t-spikes, takes on bulky waters and rotom-w, uses a sleep move. Other than t-spikes, that was my entire usage of roserade, and now it's an amoonguss. (Not actually a direct replacement, but it works that way.) Plus, defensive teams find it much easier to fit a t-spikes absorber on, which means that roserade plus spinblocker now destroys them much less hard than it used to.
I still think roserade is viable for the more power/status absorbption thing, though. It's like a more offensive amoonguss-always nice to have a voltturn check that doesn't have to outpredict rotom-w.
Alk, of course not, he was just saying shaymin-S might have a stronger leaf storm, more of a technicality. I'd also like to point out that amoonguss has eaten a lot of roserade's share of usage recently-absorbs t-spikes, takes on bulky waters and rotom-w, uses a sleep move. Other than t-spikes, that was my entire usage of roserade, and now it's an amoonguss. (Not actually a direct replacement, but it works that way.) Plus, defensive teams find it much easier to fit a t-spikes absorber on, which means that roserade plus spinblocker now destroys them much less hard than it used to.
I still think roserade is viable for the more power/status absorbption thing, though. It's like a more offensive amoonguss-always nice to have a voltturn check that doesn't have to outpredict rotom-w.
my point on the psychic typing was mainly that celebi would be a lot better if it had another way of getting that fighting resistance. that's one thing that i definitely give roserade over celebi: being grass/poison instead of grass/psychic means you're neutral to bug instead of 4x weak to it, and you're no longer pursuit bait either. you lose a ground resistance which kinda sucks, but your weakness to psychic is not as bad as a weakness to bug and dark. grass poison is really not a bad defensive typing at all. i would take a grass/poison celebi over a grass/psychic celebi any day; it means i don't instantly die to uturn and suddenly i can run it on the same team as latias without genesect murdering me (my stall team would hold a celebration)
this is true, but it's the only thing psychic has going for it. such a small ass reward for being weak to uturn and being trapped by pursuit. running two psychics on the same team (unless they have supportive resistive typings like steel) tends to end badly specifically because of those flaws; i've tried running latias and celebi on the same team and you lose basically every time a genesect is on your opponent's team (exaggeration). generally the disadvantages match the benefits, or outweigh them (and the multitude of psychics clinging to lower tiers should be plain evidence of the fact). ghosts at least tend to have willowisp to deal with pursuit; psychics have to just suck up the fact that they're trapping bait. EDIT: okay or they can smash through tyranitars with +2 leaf storm =P not every psychic, or hell not even every set of celebi, has that luxury though
i pretty much agree with this yeah. rade's biggest edge in OU has always been hazard access. if you skip the hazards, you're basically a grass/poison pivot lacking in amoong's bulk and regenerator and packing a lot more satk and speed. if only rade wasn't so shitty in physical bulk, it would fare a lot better against cb scizor, which would make it a pretty nice check to volt-turn if you're running hp fire. it can check volt turn regardless because rade murders most rotom-w, but banded uturn takes a big chunk out and basically forces rade to rest up afterwards (i used to run 252 hp / 252 def bold rade... still takes like half from uturn T_T), where as amoong can simply switch out to nab free regenerator recovery.
Also, no pursuit on celebi. I once ran a leaf storm NP set because fuck tyranitar. (It was a really good set, too.)
I hate to compare two things with similar typing, but amoonguss and roserade perform almost exactly the same, so yeah. it's still got that whole spikes thing down, and being strong as hell. And looking pwnsome.
Technically it can make scizor predict pretty hard, but it can pursuit the hell out of you if you run, so really pressurized situation, i prefer to put it to sleep on switchin.
I hate to compare two things with similar typing, but amoonguss and roserade perform almost exactly the same, so yeah. it's still got that whole spikes thing down, and being strong as hell. And looking pwnsome.
Technically it can make scizor predict pretty hard, but it can pursuit the hell out of you if you run, so really pressurized situation, i prefer to put it to sleep on switchin.
I think looking at Roserade, that if it wants to actually be good in OU, rather than mediocre, it is limited to certain styles of teams. As aforementioned, it doesn't have the bulk that Celebi does to fit in on a stall team, and Amoonguss also seriously outclasses it on stall, Celebi is a much more potent threat for an offensive team, and Roserade certainly isn't fast enough for Hyper Offense. The main style of team that Roserade could effectively fit onto is a Balanced team. Now Amoonguss can also fit onto Balance teams quite well, however if you already have enough defensively oriented members on a Balance team, but still want the defensive coverage of Amoonguss, you could use Roserade.
There will obviously be players who will be inclined to use Amoonguss over Roserade on a Balance team, even if it means having 4/6 members as more defensive mons, with only two offensively oriented members, however for the general team type I believe Roserade is better. Roserade can provide both offense and support in one moveset, which can be of great value to a Balance team. It would play a role similar to that of the Tinkerbell Celebi set, primarily there for support, however able to fire off seriously powerful attacks when needed. Thats a versatility that Amoonguss could only dream of. Now I know that Amoonguss doesn't really need to be able to bring a lot of offensive firepower, because it has many other methods for dealing with the opposing team, and that is why it is vastly more superior for stall than Roserade. On a Balance team Roserade could run a set along the lines of:
- Leaf Storm/Giga Drain
- Rest
- Aromatherapy
- Spikes/Sleep Powder/Leech Seed/Toxic Spikes
That set would allow it to heal up when necessary, simply by using Rest then switching out, which acts as a Pseudo-Regenerator, granted you need to actually use a move rather than just switching out, but its healing more than 33% when you do it. Aromatherapy would be to alleviate status issues for other team members, which could be quite useful if say one of the offensive members was paralyzed/burned, and it was the only way to break through a wall on your opponents team, or if one of your defensive members was poisoned and really needed to wall something on your opponents team.
Leaf Storm is there to punch holes when needed, and to ensure that Roserade doesn't become Taunt-bait, basically its obligatory on Roserade as it is another feature that sets it apart from Amoonguss. With just 88 SATK EVS and a Modest nature, Roserade's Leaf Storm will OHKO specially defensive Rotom-W 100% of the time, which is becoming increasingly common, and is a pain for Balance teams. Thats just the bare minimum though, you could put 252 EVs into it, taking away from potential bulk, and creating a much more potent offensive threat, even if Grass is a poor offensive type. If Spikes was to be used as the fourth move then Giga Drain would need to be the offensive move for Roserade. Energy Ball could be used, but 5 extra BP isn't worth the healing you miss out on.
The fourth move is there for whatever would support the team more. Sleep Powder is very appealing, as Amoonguss' access to Spore is one of the other key reasons it is used, and I would say without the option to use Sleep Powder, Amoonguss would seriously outclass Roserade. Leech Seed could be used if you wished to give another member of your team a little bit of extra health on a switch, and spikes would be there for that constant extra damage, which is appreciated on a Balance team. Toxic Spikes could be used to get that extra bit of damage going against your opponent, which is once again appreciated by Balance. All up the fourth move allows for Roserade to be flexible depending on exactly what it needs to do for the team.
Celebi has managed to stay in OU, even with its horrible weaknesses to very prevelant offensive threats, due to its versatility and unpredictably, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It can fit in well on almost any team, bar Hyper Offense, and is generally quite a good mon, weaknesses aside. Amoonguss is great for Stall teams as it has very respectable bulk, quite decent defensive typing, access to a 100% accurate sleep move in Spore, and of course Regenerator. While Celebi can be seen as more offensive, and Amoonguss as more defensive, Roserade can sit comfortably in the middle. Its abilities as a Cleric are very valuable to a Balance team, and coupled with its ability to still hit things very hard it makes an excellent member of any Balance team.
So I think that while it only works in a very specialised way, the niche is big enough for it to function effectively in OU.
There will obviously be players who will be inclined to use Amoonguss over Roserade on a Balance team, even if it means having 4/6 members as more defensive mons, with only two offensively oriented members, however for the general team type I believe Roserade is better. Roserade can provide both offense and support in one moveset, which can be of great value to a Balance team. It would play a role similar to that of the Tinkerbell Celebi set, primarily there for support, however able to fire off seriously powerful attacks when needed. Thats a versatility that Amoonguss could only dream of. Now I know that Amoonguss doesn't really need to be able to bring a lot of offensive firepower, because it has many other methods for dealing with the opposing team, and that is why it is vastly more superior for stall than Roserade. On a Balance team Roserade could run a set along the lines of:
- Leaf Storm/Giga Drain
- Rest
- Aromatherapy
- Spikes/Sleep Powder/Leech Seed/Toxic Spikes
That set would allow it to heal up when necessary, simply by using Rest then switching out, which acts as a Pseudo-Regenerator, granted you need to actually use a move rather than just switching out, but its healing more than 33% when you do it. Aromatherapy would be to alleviate status issues for other team members, which could be quite useful if say one of the offensive members was paralyzed/burned, and it was the only way to break through a wall on your opponents team, or if one of your defensive members was poisoned and really needed to wall something on your opponents team.
Leaf Storm is there to punch holes when needed, and to ensure that Roserade doesn't become Taunt-bait, basically its obligatory on Roserade as it is another feature that sets it apart from Amoonguss. With just 88 SATK EVS and a Modest nature, Roserade's Leaf Storm will OHKO specially defensive Rotom-W 100% of the time, which is becoming increasingly common, and is a pain for Balance teams. Thats just the bare minimum though, you could put 252 EVs into it, taking away from potential bulk, and creating a much more potent offensive threat, even if Grass is a poor offensive type. If Spikes was to be used as the fourth move then Giga Drain would need to be the offensive move for Roserade. Energy Ball could be used, but 5 extra BP isn't worth the healing you miss out on.
The fourth move is there for whatever would support the team more. Sleep Powder is very appealing, as Amoonguss' access to Spore is one of the other key reasons it is used, and I would say without the option to use Sleep Powder, Amoonguss would seriously outclass Roserade. Leech Seed could be used if you wished to give another member of your team a little bit of extra health on a switch, and spikes would be there for that constant extra damage, which is appreciated on a Balance team. Toxic Spikes could be used to get that extra bit of damage going against your opponent, which is once again appreciated by Balance. All up the fourth move allows for Roserade to be flexible depending on exactly what it needs to do for the team.
Celebi has managed to stay in OU, even with its horrible weaknesses to very prevelant offensive threats, due to its versatility and unpredictably, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It can fit in well on almost any team, bar Hyper Offense, and is generally quite a good mon, weaknesses aside. Amoonguss is great for Stall teams as it has very respectable bulk, quite decent defensive typing, access to a 100% accurate sleep move in Spore, and of course Regenerator. While Celebi can be seen as more offensive, and Amoonguss as more defensive, Roserade can sit comfortably in the middle. Its abilities as a Cleric are very valuable to a Balance team, and coupled with its ability to still hit things very hard it makes an excellent member of any Balance team.
So I think that while it only works in a very specialised way, the niche is big enough for it to function effectively in OU.
Temp V1 Spikes + Leaf Storm is an illegal combination, as both are egg moves from different egg teams.
The way an offensive set should look is this:
Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
HP Fire
Spikes / T-Spikes
Sleep Powder / Rest
Obviously Spikes goes with Giga Drain and T-Spikes with Leaf Storm. This set uses Roserade's tools over other Grass types, such as Celebi and Amoonguss, which are the ability to set-up hazards other than SR, Sleep Powder, and the ability to hit way harder than any other Grass type. A cool thing about Roserade as a Spiker is that no spinner wants to switch into her, as she beats all of them except from Psychic/Psyshock Starmie, which dies if he comes in on a Grass move, so she has an easy time setting up and keeping intact (T)Spikes.
This set may be even better when Technician Roserade is released, as 90 BP Grass and Fire moves are definitely sweet (Magical Leaf and 60 BP HP Fire), and you can use Synthesis for recovery, although losing the ability to heal burns and paralyze by switching out sucks a bit.
The way an offensive set should look is this:
Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
HP Fire
Spikes / T-Spikes
Sleep Powder / Rest
Obviously Spikes goes with Giga Drain and T-Spikes with Leaf Storm. This set uses Roserade's tools over other Grass types, such as Celebi and Amoonguss, which are the ability to set-up hazards other than SR, Sleep Powder, and the ability to hit way harder than any other Grass type. A cool thing about Roserade as a Spiker is that no spinner wants to switch into her, as she beats all of them except from Psychic/Psyshock Starmie, which dies if he comes in on a Grass move, so she has an easy time setting up and keeping intact (T)Spikes.
This set may be even better when Technician Roserade is released, as 90 BP Grass and Fire moves are definitely sweet (Magical Leaf and 60 BP HP Fire), and you can use Synthesis for recovery, although losing the ability to heal burns and paralyze by switching out sucks a bit.
Most of this stuff has already been covered. The only way Roserade performs without being outclassed is the hazard route, that is of course in comparison to Amoongus and Celebi.
Amoongus has the benefit of a greatly more accurate sleep move, better overall bulk to stop stuff like volt-turn chains, Regenerator as opposed to sacking a moveslot for rest ands Clear Smog for preventing set-up. The only areas Roserade would be beating Amoongus would be greater Special Attack, Speed and Status absorbing/being a cleric . So it's basically preference of if you would want a bulky grass/poison or a more offensively oriented one with still decent special bulk, without factoring in hazards, in which case Rade has Amoongus beat.
And then, Celebi is also a status absorber, has access to U-turn, sets up the hazard which Rade doesn't have access to (Stealth Rock) though it's more widespread, is faster, boasts a set-up sweeper set with nasty plot (though I expect this to not really matter with Genesect around now). Rade still has stuff on Celebi which lacks a sleep move, has a psychic typing (which makes Celebi bait for Genesect, T-tar and the like) which is less of an issue for Roserade.
IMO, I don't think they can really be compared.. Rade is basically a hazard setter with more offenses and Celebi is more versatile with a wider range of options to choose from. The only place to be compared would be status absorbing and/or aromatherapy/heal bell and the choice of which depends on your team and how well it can handle their respective threats.
Amoongus has the benefit of a greatly more accurate sleep move, better overall bulk to stop stuff like volt-turn chains, Regenerator as opposed to sacking a moveslot for rest ands Clear Smog for preventing set-up. The only areas Roserade would be beating Amoongus would be greater Special Attack, Speed and Status absorbing/being a cleric . So it's basically preference of if you would want a bulky grass/poison or a more offensively oriented one with still decent special bulk, without factoring in hazards, in which case Rade has Amoongus beat.
And then, Celebi is also a status absorber, has access to U-turn, sets up the hazard which Rade doesn't have access to (Stealth Rock) though it's more widespread, is faster, boasts a set-up sweeper set with nasty plot (though I expect this to not really matter with Genesect around now). Rade still has stuff on Celebi which lacks a sleep move, has a psychic typing (which makes Celebi bait for Genesect, T-tar and the like) which is less of an issue for Roserade.
IMO, I don't think they can really be compared.. Rade is basically a hazard setter with more offenses and Celebi is more versatile with a wider range of options to choose from. The only place to be compared would be status absorbing and/or aromatherapy/heal bell and the choice of which depends on your team and how well it can handle their respective threats.
Ooooooh. Yay, a Roserade thread!
Here's a set.
Roserade (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 20 SAtk / 116 SDef
Modest Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rest
This is I guess what you would call a counter Roserade. It is the grass type I always turn to when building sand stall teams, since it offers resistances to grass and water, sets up toxic spikes and usually gets in a rest before I am forced to switch out again. I do not use sleep because accuracy sucks. This set also works as a excellent breaker to the scizor+rotom combo, taking a volt switch from rotom-w then torching scizor in one hit with hidden power. In addition, it can switch into any of rotom-w's attacks (bar a specs hp fire), as trick gives them her black sludge, she takes both its STABs nicely and burns have no effect on a special attacker with NC.
Overall, a very useful set, but still not as bulky as celebi. >_<
Here's a set.
Roserade (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 20 SAtk / 116 SDef
Modest Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rest
This is I guess what you would call a counter Roserade. It is the grass type I always turn to when building sand stall teams, since it offers resistances to grass and water, sets up toxic spikes and usually gets in a rest before I am forced to switch out again. I do not use sleep because accuracy sucks. This set also works as a excellent breaker to the scizor+rotom combo, taking a volt switch from rotom-w then torching scizor in one hit with hidden power. In addition, it can switch into any of rotom-w's attacks (bar a specs hp fire), as trick gives them her black sludge, she takes both its STABs nicely and burns have no effect on a special attacker with NC.
Overall, a very useful set, but still not as bulky as celebi. >_<