Metagame RU Stage 1 - Begin Again (Welcome to gen 9!)

Jmash · Jan 11, 2023

Wanna drop two mons that have been most fun for me so far

Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch

My brain still tells me Duggy is bad LOL but it’s been a fun mon to use, one of the naturally fastest options equipped with a respectably strong EQ gives you solid revenge killing against the likes of Lycan Dusk and offensive Espeon. The SD buff finally makes this thing a little dicey to handle defensively, with some chip and/or tera ground you can bust through the fatties.

252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 269-317 (99.2 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 320-377 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flamigo: 303-357 (99.3 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Slowbro @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Future Sight
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Time for a real Pokemon that’s undoubtably good, Helmet Slowbro is a pretty brainless addition to teams that helps a ton vs the onslaught of fighters and even stuff like Haxorus and Lycan Dusk. Helmet + Regen is super good for nabbing free chip through pivots in order to set up your late game cleaners. Well-timed tera use can stop an Outraging Haxorus or Crunch Lycan Dusk from getting out of hand, and Future Sight is very easy pressure to set up if you can afford to stay in a turn.

Copperajah @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 104 Def / 108 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Tera Blast

I think if you’re going CB copper, something like this is a little more optimal imo. EQ is much more synergistic coverage, since it covers opposing steels and fires at once. Play Rough’s not even that important but it snipes Hariyama and is generally stronger than EQ because of Sheer Force. Frankly this mon struggles to make progress with slowbro around cus it lost power whip, and you don’t need much outside the first 3 moves, so give yourself the option to tera cheese your way through slowbro if you want. Speed for Palossand, and the split defense EVs are actually optimal due to Copperajah’s base stat distribution.

252+ Atk Cloyster Liquidation vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 168-198 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Cloyster Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 104 Def Copperajah: 145-172 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Copperajah: 177-209 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 108 SpD Copperajah: 153-181 (39.7 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

schlondark · Jan 11, 2023

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability:Guts
Tera Type: Steel
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Belly Drum

:Heracross:

Heracross really enjoys access to trailblaze which gives it access to a scarfed speed tier with the ability to change moves, at +1/+1 You hit really hard while leaving things like toxtricity in the dust

:Mabosstiff:

The dog suffers a lack of high BP moves and just low enough speed/bulk to be irritating; but on paper it still seems like it can work, it just needs some set to break it or a decent partner as it very much enjoys being pivoted in. Being pivoted in by a Revavroom's parting shot while wearing an Assault Vest seems like a valid gameplan, and leaves you open to possibly abuse Trailblaze too.

Lots of speedboosters in the tier says sticky webs may be a premium commodity.

I am New · Jan 12, 2023

A poke that I see get little attention which I get competing with avalugg has to do is Cryo

Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Flash Cannon

This mon is so good its one of the best spinners after avalugg and maybe tatsu which I know is not the best thing when ur competing with is delibird....

now what does it differentiate from avalugg.
for one its immune to ground after tera its a steel type IMMUNE to ground which is crazy good.IT has Insane sp.def AND is fast which is something avalugg cant dream of. The sp.def allows u to check qd moth and you CAN run frost breath if you want. THe last move can be anything. haze chilling water STAB flash cannon to nail avalugg and garde. This ev is speed to outspeed moth max sp.atk and remaining on HP however you can run a bulkier set OR a faster set its your choice. its a very customizable mon.

The biggest flaw to cryo imo is its law phy.def and reliance on tera to be good.Its sp.def on paper is great but it can fold to mons like garde or even moth if not careful. But that doesnt stop it from checking them.

+1 252 SpA Tinted Lens Tera Bug Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 178-210 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Tera Flying Vivillon Hurricane vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 108-128 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Punk Rock Tera Normal Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 105-123 (31.7 - 37.1%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Tera Normal Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 156-184 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Normal Toxtricity on a critical hit: 160-189 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Flying Vivillon on a critical hit: 320-380 (106.3 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth on a critical hit: 153-180 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EviGaro · Jan 14, 2023

So I'm posting about this one thing because there's hardly any way people will talk about it. It's UR in the lists I have seen here, and for good reasons as historically it happens to be one of the worst pokemons in the game. But... you want hazards and pivoting? You really want to use Toxic? Well, you should use Revavroom.

... Oh? You want regular spikes? and recovery?? That's a lot to ask, unless...

Vespiquen @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Spikes
- Roost

Yes.

Now this is SUPER dependent on tera, but Tera Ghost Vespiquen is not only the goatest spinblocker in the tier, it's also incredibly effective vs defog due to its ability pressure. The 32 pps of Spikes will easily outpace the now 12 defogs available to your opponent, ignoring rocks, and none of the defoggers available actually make a dent into this whatsoever, unless you are using offensive defog Braviary but like.

But its not as if Vespiquen just has spikes, oh no. As I said, toxic is immense for it, as it now takes perfect advantage of stuff like Slowbro being unable to toxic it back, threaten it with it, and either spikes up or just pivot out instead. This brings a lot of weird utility you don't really associate with the ghost typing, as its excellent bulk is paired very well with hazards, recovery and momentum. It's still a Vespiquen, so I'm not going to shot it up in the VR to like A+ or something, but I have tried far worse things this gen, like Tatsugiri or Krookodile (still not entirely serious here, but actually kinda yeah)

EVs are fairy customizable, I think. SpD has some nice things and since I am highlighting its role as a spinblocker, I am using it cause: 252 SpA Tatsugiri Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vespiquen: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. It also checks Scarf Garde pretty well, which is something. But physical defence is also nice due to how Vespiquen plays, particularly vs fighters like Heracross, but maybe not as useful? Need to test that more ngl. It has some other options, Air Slash to ko said Heracross, or taunt, or toxic spikes, but to me the moves I picked are really what gives it a role. There's still options! Just, you'll find yourself missing something most likely. Also its funny to have a ghost with zero attacking power that still makes switching into it for darks really annoying cause of the stab U-turn.

Replay of Vespiquen doing work overtime and Tatsugiri spinning once (It was the ONLY time in six games I clicked a move someone tell me how to use this pokemon)

Oh also speaking of this replay will anyone actually hate me for putting Bellibolt on a voting slate I swear this pokemon is utterly obnoxious and has no counter while it sits on 3/4 of the tier.

schlondark · Jan 14, 2023

Murder Dog (Mabosstiff) @ Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Dark/Dragon
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs
- Outrage/Trailblaze

You hit as hard as possible, outspeed base 110's after sticky web or trailblaze, and are as bulky as possible to pursuit trap most effectively. Crunch is a reliable STAB and nothing wants to eat "80BP-Base-120-Adamant-Banded-Stakeout-TeraSTAB" (64% minimum to max-physdef Avalugg on a switch). Outrage is High BP (Tera Dragon hitting 300BP on a switch, 71% Minimum to max-physdef Avalugg on a switch) which you lack otherwise and could be an alternate option as Dragon also has decent resists.

Fragmented · Jan 14, 2023

Haven't really had time to mess around too much, so the stuff I'm about to say sounds good only in theory.

:whiscash:

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 164 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Icy Wind
- Earth Power

Might as well use a defensive set instead of lead sash since Whiscash has 110 HP and its attacking stats are pathetic anyway. EVs are random, but it should serve as a somewhat decent Bellibolt switch in and maybe for Magnezone as well. Don't have space to slot in Future Sight tho (GOAT AV Whiscash). Tera Ghost if you want to spin block, Tera Dragon to live slightly longer but become Haxorus bait, but Icy Wind helps to prevent the snowball.

:arboliva:

Arboliva @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power

EVs are random once again, but enough speed to outspeed base 40s (of which there are no notable ones, but you could win a Arboliva mirror). Tera Poison is probably its best Tera type from what I struggled against, since Grassy Terrain already provides the damage reduction to EQ. Could work as a decent Bellibolt switch in.

:komala:

Komala @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Comatose
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Play Rough
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch

Honourable mention. You could Tera Ground and you virtually have a Donphan. Gets EQ as well, but hates losing Knock Off. Has decent enough bulk to switch into some special attackers and scare them with a Sucker Punch. Immunity to status is a plus, and Rapid Spin is like a 2HKO on Venomoth.

Prof_Baptou · Jan 15, 2023

RU has never been so fun !
Revavroom is kinda cool to play, happy to grind the ladder again !

MasterPlayer · Jan 15, 2023

Has anyone found a viable set for Glaceon yet? Because this thing is actually more threatening since it gained Calm Mind, although I'm not sure if it's the best Eeveelution allowed in the tier who can make use of Calm Mind

ChrystalFalchion · Jan 15, 2023

MasterPlayer said:
Has anyone found a viable set for Glaceon yet? Because this thing is actually more threatening since it gained Calm Mind, although I'm not sure if it's the best Eeveelution allowed in the tier who can make use of Calm Mind

If you really want to run Glaceon, this would be the set I'd suggest:
Glaceon @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Tera Type: Water
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Wish / Rest
- Freeze-Dry
- Tera Blast

Meant to be a late game bulky sweeper. Calm Mind gives it great power. Wish or Rest restore health, both having their pros and cons. Rest cures status, Wish takes 2 turns. Freeze-Dry plus Tera Blast Water gives Glaceon perfect neutral coverage.

Yourwelcomethanku · Jan 15, 2023

I have used Trailblaze + Calm Mind with Tera Ground on Glaceon. It's actually not terrible on hail, you recover a good deal between Leftovers and Ice Body, and Trailblaze helps you outpace faster offensive threats such as Lycanroc. Tera Ground lets you smash Magnezone and resist Lycanroc's Accelerock. Glaceon still isn't great in my experience, maybe the above set is better, I haven't tried it. But this is what I have found to work well in my experience.

Glaceon @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Calm Mind
- Trailblaze
- Tera Blast

Sneakyplanner · Jan 16, 2023

I have noticed an odd phenomenon with how tera has been playing out in RU and it's both intriguing and worrying. As the power level goes down, tera becomes significantly less powerful. And so in RU battles between teams without setup sweepers that abuse the mechanic like Haxorus, Cloyster and Venemoth, I have noticed that players hold off on using it since the highest value that tera can give you in those games is the surprise factor. Once you use your tera for the battle, the endless possibilities collapse into one line of play and it becomes a whole lot easier to play around. Using your tera first puts you at a pretty big disadvantage since you are making the decision based on what they could do, but using it after the opponent lets you consider all options with perfect information in order to choose what will have the most impact.

Offensive choice banders or scarfers like Lycanroc and Flamigo are probably the best abusers of tera outside of the HO setup sweepers like Haxorus, but even a tera rock lycanroc can be walled by something like Palossand, and a defensive tera that doesn't secure a ko on the turn you use it drains more resources than it's worth. I have had many games where an opponent wasting their tera early on to do something like survive a hit and ko in return gives them a temporary advantage but puts them in a bad situation because once they use that surprise factor, you don't have to play around it. What this ends up creating is a game of chicken where the only thing worse than letting them get the perfect terastallization is misusing yours. I have had multiple games where both players wait until the very last turn to terastallize because that's when it has the most impact.

I looked at a random sample of 36 replays (I looked at more but removed examples of bad data where someone forfeited after a stone edge miss on turn 2 or used a full eeveelution team and lost) to try and see if there was a pattern or if it was just me.

2 games where no tera was used

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773634430
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772841861

8 games where the first player to terastallize lost the game without the other player needing to use it at all

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773716098
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773372719
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773465239
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773493301
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773127400
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772615038
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772129565
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772520090

15 games where both players terastallized and the one who went first lost (there was one example where the tera from the winner had 0 impact on the final result)

and 11 games where the player who terastallized first won (with two of those games having literally 0 impact on the result from the tera)

I'll highlight a few games from both sides where I think the benefits of tera first or last are particularly noteworthy:

tera first wins:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773143944
In this game an early tera-ground from a scarf Florges baits in Magnezone and takes out the only fairy-resist on the team, making the rest of the game easy cleanup. An early advantage can cascade into a win and this is a particularly lopsided example of that, and even if the loser decided to terastallize they would have still lost easily.

tera first loses:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773713114
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to make Avalugg into a full wall to a shift gear Revavroom. This is a good use of tera and turns what would have been a losing matchup into a winning one, but even after it takes out the Revavroom the game is still even. With the knowledge that the opponent can't terastallize anymore then they are able to pick the pokemon which will have the most impact and terastallize it, winning the game with a tera-steel belly drum Hariyama.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773677657
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to flip the tauros/vaporeon matchup on its head and start winning. It looks like the perfect use that catches something by surprise, gets a free ko and then wins the game, but the opponent still has answers and is able to trade Rotom and a lot of health on Vaporeon and Passimian for the Tauros and the terastallization. This is a very costly trade, but now that the losing player can't terastallize anymore the winning player can make their decision with perfect information, making a tera choice that can trade up and set the stage for a Passimian cleanup.

The interesting thing to me is that in the examples where tera first lost, the one who terastallized first was doing so for the exact same reasons that won the game in the other example. Every time you go for tera first is a risk, maybe it will pay off and win you the game but if you calculated wrong or guessed their sets wrong then you have spent a whole lot of resources on nothing. It seems like saving your tera puts you at a big advantage, and once both players know that they will try to put themselves in that position. So the end result is that both players are playing safe against the enemy's tera and trying to bait it while being reluctant to use it themselves. While the impact of tera is much lower than in higher tiers, the impact on the mindgames is much higher.

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this, and do you think it's because we are in an unknown meta and are trying to make decisions off or if this is just the endpoint of terastallization?

Perla · Jan 16, 2023

Sneakyplanner said:
I have noticed an odd phenomenon with how tera has been playing out in RU and it's both intriguing and worrying. As the power level goes down, tera becomes significantly less powerful. And so in RU battles between teams without setup sweepers that abuse the mechanic like Haxorus, Cloyster and Venemoth, I have noticed that players hold off on using it since the highest value that tera can give you in those games is the surprise factor. Once you use your tera for the battle, the endless possibilities collapse into one line of play and it becomes a whole lot easier to play around. Using your tera first puts you at a pretty big disadvantage since you are making the decision based on what they could do, but using it after the opponent lets you consider all options with perfect information in order to choose what will have the most impact.

Offensive choice banders or scarfers like Lycanroc and Flamigo are probably the best abusers of tera outside of the HO setup sweepers like Haxorus, but even a tera rock lycanroc can be walled by something like Palossand, and a defensive tera that doesn't secure a ko on the turn you use it drains more resources than it's worth. I have had many games where an opponent wasting their tera early on to do something like survive a hit and ko in return gives them a temporary advantage but puts them in a bad situation because once they use that surprise factor, you don't have to play around it. What this ends up creating is a game of chicken where the only thing worse than letting them get the perfect terastallization is misusing yours. I have had multiple games where both players wait until the very last turn to terastallize because that's when it has the most impact.

I looked at a random sample of 36 replays (I looked at more but removed examples of bad data where someone forfeited after a stone edge miss on turn 2 or used a full eeveelution team and lost) to try and see if there was a pattern or if it was just me.

2 games where no tera was used

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773634430
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772841861

8 games where the first player to terastallize lost the game without the other player needing to use it at all

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773716098
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773372719
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773465239
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773493301
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773127400
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772615038
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772129565
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772520090

15 games where both players terastallized and the one who went first lost (there was one example where the tera from the winner had 0 impact on the final result)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773652818
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773638192
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-668997
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773485373
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773609558
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-669000
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773189781
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773677657
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773713114
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773067596
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773169190
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773697338
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772574030
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772233381

and 11 games where the player who terastallized first won (with two of those games having literally 0 impact on the result from the tera)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773705093
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772781803
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773705469
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773379763
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773601012
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-668987
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772755704
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773043006
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773058861
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772705199
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773143944

I'll highlight a few games from both sides where I think the benefits of tera first or last are particularly noteworthy:

tera first wins:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773143944
In this game an early tera-ground from a scarf Florges baits in Magnezone and takes out the only fairy-resist on the team, making the rest of the game easy cleanup. An early advantage can cascade into a win and this is a particularly lopsided example of that, and even if the loser decided to terastallize they would have still lost easily.

tera first loses:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773713114
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to make Avalugg into a full wall to a shift gear Revavroom. This is a good use of tera and turns what would have been a losing matchup into a winning one, but even after it takes out the Revavroom the game is still even. With the knowledge that the opponent can't terastallize anymore then they are able to pick the pokemon which will have the most impact and terastallize it, winning the game with a tera-steel belly drum Hariyama.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773677657
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to flip the tauros/vaporeon matchup on its head and start winning. It looks like the perfect use that catches something by surprise, gets a free ko and then wins the game, but the opponent still has answers and is able to trade Rotom and a lot of health on Vaporeon and Passimian for the Tauros and the terastallization. This is a very costly trade, but now that the losing player can't terastallize anymore the winning player can make their decision with perfect information, making a tera choice that can trade up and set the stage for a Passimian cleanup.

The interesting thing to me is that in the examples where tera first lost, the one who terastallized first was doing so for the exact same reasons that won the game in the other example. Every time you go for tera first is a risk, maybe it will pay off and win you the game but if you calculated wrong or guessed their sets wrong then you have spent a whole lot of resources on nothing. It seems like saving your tera puts you at a big advantage, and once both players know that they will try to put themselves in that position. So the end result is that both players are playing safe against the enemy's tera and trying to bait it while being reluctant to use it themselves. While the impact of tera is much lower than in higher tiers, the impact on the mindgames is much higher.

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this, and do you think it's because we are in an unknown meta and are trying to make decisions off or if this is just the endpoint of terastallization?

I wouldn't say that it's an endpoint, because if RU decides to adopt the restriction of "showing the tera types" (I'm not saying that it should, but just introducing a topic for future discussion), your results might be different because who teras first has a clearer picture of the opponent's team and might be aware of the danger of a particular tera type.

Anyway I tend to agree atm: the first tera should be used on one of the broken mons which can get rid of an important piece of the opponent's team, if you want to succeed.

Moreover, but this is just me, I'm scared of people who decide to tera their Arboliva :arboliva:

early.
That mon becomes weirdly unkillable after that

YataGarasu · Jan 16, 2023

Sneakyplanner said:
*No disrespect intended by snipping your post.

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this, and do you think it's because we are in an unknown meta and are trying to make decisions off or if this is just the endpoint of terastallization?

Tera is a risk assessment answer. It can be good or bad at any point. Unlike many tools which have a fine line in the sand when they are useful or an actual answer, tera is harder to pin down where it's end goal is the most important or least important. Sometimes you have to 4D theorymon when tera-ing early to make sure you didn't make a really poor move for instance .

Tera will always keep the meta off constant ground as long as it is kept as a surprise element, as some off-kilter tera's I didn't expect have cost me games and some have won me them in the same vain.

Even if the tera is known when someone will definitely use it is not always precise, and has a lot of mind game usage which also makes it a very interesting tool.

Waiting to late to tera can also be a costly mistake as well, which makes it the perfect error-filled tool. It can reward good plays, bad plays, but also punish misplays that are early and late, or punish rushed decisions.

The only issue I have is many people have not realized tera can also make non-answers in the meta solutions to higher meta problems. It's becoming an issue where people merely see it as cookie cutter usage without realizing some mons can become night terrors to teams with some practical thought. Similar to a tech option but sometimes on steroids and sometimes the tech on this case doesn't have to be the most powerful mon but one that synergizes with the team or creates a powerful answer to a major weakness.

I think and hope as time goes on people will start looking to less known usages for tera on teams, which may shake the meta a lot more than people realize and keep it somewhat fresh as people find new anti-meta/rogue answers that are actually useful. Such as one of my favorite techs in OU/UU/RU Muk~Ghost tera at the current moment.

BlackKnight_Gawain · Jan 17, 2023

Sneakyplanner said:
I have noticed an odd phenomenon with how tera has been playing out in RU and it's both intriguing and worrying. As the power level goes down, tera becomes significantly less powerful. And so in RU battles between teams without setup sweepers that abuse the mechanic like Haxorus, Cloyster and Venemoth, I have noticed that players hold off on using it since the highest value that tera can give you in those games is the surprise factor.

A similar sentiment to this came up in the UU thread as well during the OU suspect test, and it confirms to me what I've been feeling since the beginning: tera's surprise factor is what contributes to people finding it broken, which is generally not broken since most mons can't run more than a few types but generally tend to make already problematic abusers problematic. Said abusers also tend to be very problematic without it anyway and probably would get banned from a tier regardless (no way y'all telling me Haxorus or Cloyster stays). Essentially, I think we've reached a point where tera is reaching a baseline, and the only way to go from here is to start experimenting with things that are more niche but work with tera support (see: Yourwelcomethanku 's post about Vespiquen Tera-Ghost as a spinblocker above)

Stories · Jan 17, 2023

Sneakyplanner said:
I have noticed an odd phenomenon with how tera has been playing out in RU and it's both intriguing and worrying. As the power level goes down, tera becomes significantly less powerful. And so in RU battles between teams without setup sweepers that abuse the mechanic like Haxorus, Cloyster and Venemoth, I have noticed that players hold off on using it since the highest value that tera can give you in those games is the surprise factor. Once you use your tera for the battle, the endless possibilities collapse into one line of play and it becomes a whole lot easier to play around. Using your tera first puts you at a pretty big disadvantage since you are making the decision based on what they could do, but using it after the opponent lets you consider all options with perfect information in order to choose what will have the most impact.

Offensive choice banders or scarfers like Lycanroc and Flamigo are probably the best abusers of tera outside of the HO setup sweepers like Haxorus, but even a tera rock lycanroc can be walled by something like Palossand, and a defensive tera that doesn't secure a ko on the turn you use it drains more resources than it's worth. I have had many games where an opponent wasting their tera early on to do something like survive a hit and ko in return gives them a temporary advantage but puts them in a bad situation because once they use that surprise factor, you don't have to play around it. What this ends up creating is a game of chicken where the only thing worse than letting them get the perfect terastallization is misusing yours. I have had multiple games where both players wait until the very last turn to terastallize because that's when it has the most impact.

I looked at a random sample of 36 replays (I looked at more but removed examples of bad data where someone forfeited after a stone edge miss on turn 2 or used a full eeveelution team and lost) to try and see if there was a pattern or if it was just me.

2 games where no tera was used

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773634430
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772841861

8 games where the first player to terastallize lost the game without the other player needing to use it at all

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773716098
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773372719
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773465239
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773493301
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773127400
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772615038
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772129565
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772520090

15 games where both players terastallized and the one who went first lost (there was one example where the tera from the winner had 0 impact on the final result)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773652818
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773638192
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-668997
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773485373
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773609558
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-669000
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773189781
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773677657
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773713114
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773067596
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773169190
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773697338
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772574030
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772233381

and 11 games where the player who terastallized first won (with two of those games having literally 0 impact on the result from the tera)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773705093
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772781803
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773705469
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773379763
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773601012
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-668987
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772755704
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773043006
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773058861
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1772705199
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773143944

I'll highlight a few games from both sides where I think the benefits of tera first or last are particularly noteworthy:

tera first wins:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773143944
In this game an early tera-ground from a scarf Florges baits in Magnezone and takes out the only fairy-resist on the team, making the rest of the game easy cleanup. An early advantage can cascade into a win and this is a particularly lopsided example of that, and even if the loser decided to terastallize they would have still lost easily.

tera first loses:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773713114
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to make Avalugg into a full wall to a shift gear Revavroom. This is a good use of tera and turns what would have been a losing matchup into a winning one, but even after it takes out the Revavroom the game is still even. With the knowledge that the opponent can't terastallize anymore then they are able to pick the pokemon which will have the most impact and terastallize it, winning the game with a tera-steel belly drum Hariyama.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1773677657
In this game the losing player uses their tera early to flip the tauros/vaporeon matchup on its head and start winning. It looks like the perfect use that catches something by surprise, gets a free ko and then wins the game, but the opponent still has answers and is able to trade Rotom and a lot of health on Vaporeon and Passimian for the Tauros and the terastallization. This is a very costly trade, but now that the losing player can't terastallize anymore the winning player can make their decision with perfect information, making a tera choice that can trade up and set the stage for a Passimian cleanup.

The interesting thing to me is that in the examples where tera first lost, the one who terastallized first was doing so for the exact same reasons that won the game in the other example. Every time you go for tera first is a risk, maybe it will pay off and win you the game but if you calculated wrong or guessed their sets wrong then you have spent a whole lot of resources on nothing. It seems like saving your tera puts you at a big advantage, and once both players know that they will try to put themselves in that position. So the end result is that both players are playing safe against the enemy's tera and trying to bait it while being reluctant to use it themselves. While the impact of tera is much lower than in higher tiers, the impact on the mindgames is much higher.

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this, and do you think it's because we are in an unknown meta and are trying to make decisions off or if this is just the endpoint of terastallization?

I think this post fails to really acknowledge that if the player who uses Tera first uses it wisely, not a dumb early Tera that's basically the equivalent of forcing any kind of win-condition to early, the player who uses Tera second will have to use it in response to the first player's Tera. Sure player 2 managed to neutralize an offensive Tera threat but at the expense of using Tera to support their own threat. I just feel a lot of confirmation bias coming from these games and it ignores the number of instances where Tera v Tera interactions simply even out as both Tera users often have to go toe-to-toe with each other then the game proceeds as though Tera didn't exist anyway. I think Tera turns are largely matchup dependent and the first Tera will (should) always force a reactionary defensive Tera in response, otherwise its a waste in my opinion, similarly to how Dynamax Pokemon were often met with an opposing Dynamax Pokemon and popping it too early is a waste, the contrary of popping it too late is also true. Tera is by design a defensive mechanic but that only further enhances offensive Pokemon by covering their weaknesses. This post also just assumes the second user to Tera will always have the correct Tera-type on their team to form a response. I've had many games where I didn't use Tera because it didn't matter as the type chance never created a more advantageous position.
It's very interesting to think about this stuff for sure but I think we're confusing "Responsive Tera" with "Smart Tera" (although you may be right there's likely a correlation between the two) because the mechanic is still so new people are just clicking funny button and hoping their random setup sweeper sticks to the wall. You'll have to wait for the stuff completely broken by Tera (Haxorus, Lycanroc-Dusk, Venomoth, Toxtricity, Drednaw) to be out of the picture before one can give a fair assessment of Tera dynamics.

Ampha · Jan 17, 2023

sooo, dropping up a tech I've used and since im out of no johns...

:whiscash:

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
replay in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1775308673-y890x3sinz1bs48960eh6txb7304158pw

tera ghost is prob the best tera for stacking whisc, not only it gets a spike, rock, or dd up, but it also turns the table on things CC lycanroc and such

also wanted to point out that :frosmoth:

is mad underrated w tera, not a lot of things can check a +1/2 frosm w tera ground and it gets so many setup opportunities since no Special attacker can OHKO u( tera on fire ones), :zangoose:

is also a mon i've not seen a lot but is good w 4 attacks toxic boost
apart from that just pointing out that :haxorus:

are way busted, and things like :heracross:

(traillblaze + guts or just offensive in general) :toxtricity:

are potentially next on line when those leave

Beaf Cultist · Jan 17, 2023

Been tearing up low ladder with my new favorite offensive mon. Thought I’d drop it here, get some criticism, maybe inspire some better players than myself to test it out if I’m lucky.

:flapple:

Flapple @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Grav Apple
- Tera Blast
- U-turn

Who needs Haxorus when you can click Outrage T1 and OHKO every offensive mon in the tier!
Flapple on its own obviously isn’t great. Even with the serious upgrade and method of handling Fairies provided by Tera Steel, it still struggles with opposing Steels, and Outrage is still incredibly risky. However, where it really shines is in its meta applications. I’ve been running it with Band Flamigo, and it absolutely smokes Slowbro with Grav Apple, removing one of Flamigo’s biggest annoyances with ease. Because of the fact that most of the answers to Flamigo and Flapple are the same (and the fact that banded Flamigo is basically unwallable), running both means the opponent’s defensive core is stretched very thin in an attempt to slow them both down at once. Additionally, Flapple quad resists literally every move in Bellibolt’s kit, leading to some very funny interactions. I‘m sure it’s got even more going for it, but I’m only like, 5 games in with it, so it def needs more testing. Very fun mon, deserves more usage, we love Flapple.

The Funny
4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flapple: 27-32 (9.6 - 11.3%) -- possible 9HKO

252 Atk Hustle Flapple Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellibolt: 199-235 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery — if this isn’t peak Pokemon, I don’t know what is

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1775480521 — Flapple being a real one

YataGarasu · Jan 17, 2023

Since I was a little tired last night and didn't actually go to in depth: Let me talk about my favorite tech mon: Muk:

Muk @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Ghost
252 HP/ 252 ATK/ 4 Def
Adamant Nature
-Gunk Shot/Poison Jab
-Drain Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Ice Punch

Honorable mention for last slot: Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/Zen Headbutt. Curse/LO GS/DP/SS/Curse sets also work as tanky cleaners/wall breakers but Choice Band just seems to work better in my experience. Ice Punch chosen for more threat coverage.

Ghost tera was chosen because it's EQ/psychic bait. Tera allows you to rip psychics in half with Shadow Sneak priority, and quite a few EQ mons fall to IP.

Damage calc time:

Gunk Shot
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 76 Def Cetitan: 354-417 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Drifblim: 263-310 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flamigo: 357-420 (117 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 372-438 (97.1 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 420-495 (85.3 - 100.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Haxorus: 301-355 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 262-309 (108.7 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Slaking: 277-327 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tauros-Paldea-Fire: 195-229 (55 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 246-289 (48.8 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Whiscash: 180-212 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beartic: 334-394 (100.9 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arboliva: 608-716 (169.3 - 199.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I threw Dondozo calc in there to make a point. Muk hits hard with Gunk shot, Poison Jab also works if you are worried about missing. Poison proc also makes many of these 2HKO's into near 1HKO's and it procs quite often. Just very solid nuke against many threats you want to 1HKO. EQ fear is mitigated by tera which allows you to easily survive and return fire.

Drain Punch:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO * May seem bad, but Muk wins the war of contrition against Avalugg.
252+ ATK Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 428-504 (125.5 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 396-468 (107.3 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beartic: 280-330 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 206-244 (73.3 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 76 Def Cetitan: 294-348 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock *Stops bellydrum antics.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mabosstiff: 254-300 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Drednaw: 254-300 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Naclstack: 156-184 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 248-294 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 304-358 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Although not as strong as its other coverage options can easily help it win stall wars, stop BD antics, and pretty nice for stopping Steel types.

And:

Shadow Sneak:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 236-278 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 164-194 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bruxish: 248-294 (89.5 - 106.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock *Only stops Strong Jaw variants.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Froslass: 248-294 (88.2 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 264-312 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rabsca: 212-252 (59.8 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 194-230 (51.3 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 186-222 (45.2 - 54%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 264-312 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-332 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO *UU's top threat right now
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Shadow sneak can easily 2KO neutral low defense mons that aren't normal, 2HKO's (if not 1HKOs) most psychic/ghost types, and if you know Muk is going down can be a last ditch effort to plague spread poison proc for a small chip or if burned. It's one advantage it has over Alolan Muk this gen unless MS changes. (Though AM has Knockoff so)...

The final slot:

Ice Punch:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 242-286 (74.9 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO *1HKOs Garchomp with ease in OU Ghost tera to survive EQ of course.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sandy Shocks: 238-280 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Haxorus: 252-298 (86 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 508-600 (143.5 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flamigo: 296-350 (97 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Fire Punch can dent steel types, though drain punch covers most other uses for coverage. TP has way less coverage, and ZH can hit fighting types extra hard. Though GS covers most everything it does but harder bar steel.

This hardly used mon has a lot of potential that many are overlooking in every tier right now and I heavily recommend it, even better is it doesn't require dedicated tera to fulfill most of its roles. Don't mean to disapoint with no replays but I'm always bad at saving great plays but take my word for it and not just the calcs, it's solid, bulky and although slow has ways to offset that issue (such as SS)... Edit: I wish I was invested in doubles because I'd love to make a doubles variant and see how it does this gen as well.

MasterPlayer · Jan 18, 2023

I'm surprised that are preferring Freeze-Dry over Ice Beam on Glaceon, Because this move hits very hard against anything not named Blissey, Eviolite Chansey, Thick Fat Hariyama (although Guts seems to be the preferred ability) and special walls who resists Ice, especially after a single Calm Mind and with Tera Ice. On a similar note, Calm Mind now makes Stored Power actually useable, but it gives Glaceon 4MSS

Shady Icy · Jan 19, 2023

Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam/U-turn
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

no speed allows it to invest in bulk
specs because stronk
very prediction reliant, but it feels so good to land a right prediction.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 408-482 (139.2 - 164.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tera Fairy Naclstack: 177-208 (54.6 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Cloyster: 840-990 (348.5 - 410.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 442-522 (128.4 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bellibolt: 327-385 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 148-175 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 374-442 (108.7 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Hydro Pump vs. Any Offensive Pokemon 234-359 (175 - 188.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Slowbro: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 270-320 (78 - 92.4%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 238-282 (68.7 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clawitzer: 254-300 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Flamigo Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 201-237 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 169-199 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

Critaquil · Jan 19, 2023

YataGarasu said:
snip

there are a lot of oddities with this post, calcs are nice, but when many of them aren't relevant (why are there slowking calcs? galade? slaking??) and several are misleading (tauros calc doesn't factor intimidate, avalugg calc is spdef and not the much more prominent physdef), it kinda makes it seem like your selling it as more than it is.

moreover, the lack of defensive calcs is a massive red flag, genuenly, what does muk switch in on? mismagius? bronzong? tatsu I guess? maybe belibolt? naclstack if it's not tera ghost? everything else either kills you outright, is dependent on them clicking a specific button (mag has to not volt switch, garde has to not click a psychic move, flamigo has to click specifically cc and can't tera fighting, ect.) or just kinda beats you 1v1 or easily scouts your intention really easily. (not much good coming into sylv when it protects and then effortlessly goes into a resist or immunity) you're super reliant on pivot spam to bring you in and even then you don't force out all that much in the first place. At this point, why not just use a different, better option?

and thats the main thing really, what does this thing provide that other things don't do better? if I wanted something hard to get in but with virtually no switchins, why not just use mabostiff? or why not something with more raw power, like toxtricity? if I wanted good reliable prio with strong breaking power why not just use lycan, you provide a bunch of calcs and say it's good without actually explaining what it's niche or role on the team is, leaving me to assume it's a slow, somewhat bulky wallbreaker that ends up having to use tera way more than other similar wallbreakers.

tl;dr: actually explain what muk does and what gives it a niche over other options rather than just posting a wall of calcs, proclaiming that it's good, and leaving.

Shady Icy said:
Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam/U-turn
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

...or maybe I'm just stupid and wrong and posting sets + calcs and leaving it is the norm, who knows

YataGarasu · Jan 19, 2023

Edit part 1: My whole point wasn't to make Muk out to be the god of all Pokemon, as I originally said it's an interesting tech mon that I like that has applications in multiple tiers and is SOLID not GODLY but solid: Useful against common multiple threats. I'm not sure where the miscommunication is coming from but i'm addressing it here: That's what I originally said and claimed. Nothing more nothing less.

Muk @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera: Ghost
252 HP/252 ATK/ 4 Def
Adamant Nature
~Gunk Shot
~Drain Punch
~Shadow Sneak
~Ice Punch
Note: Evs have not been fully optimized yet. WIP. That includes adding Speed investment to not speed tie base 50's like Hariyama.

Damage calcs: Using hardest hitting answer: Note default Muk is often interchangable with TG Muk. Exceptions to immunity/loss of ground weakness/Psychic weakness.

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flamigo: 357-420 (117 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxtricity: 186-219 (63.9 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Haxorus: 301-355 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 372-438 (97.1 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 420-495 (85.3 - 100.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Hariyama: 350-414 (71.1 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage (42.2 - 50% recovered) from Drain Punch

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 352-415 (116.9 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 280-330 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 280-330 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mabosstiff: 304-358 (100.9 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mabosstiff: 254-300 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (30.6 - 36.2% recovered)
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Revavroom: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Revavroom: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (15.4 - 18.1% recovered)

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Squawkabilly-Blue: 475-559 (155.7 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Squawkabilly-Blue: 396-466 (129.8 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arboliva: 608-716 (169.3 - 199.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arboliva: 254-300 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, (30.6 - 36.2% recovered)

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 223-264 (69.4 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Avalugg: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (16.4 - 19.5% recovered)

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellibolt: 211-250 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 164-194 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 956-1126 (133.8 - 157.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (86.2 - 86.2% recovered)
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey: 1147-1350 (160.6 - 189%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 314-370 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (37.9 - 44.6% recovered)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Drednaw: 254-300 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (30.6 - 36.2% recovered)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 282-332 (104 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 264-312 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tauros-Paldea-Fire: 129-153 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 197-232 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 164-194 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 349-412 (108.7 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Muk Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 656-776 (233.4 - 276.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (34 - 34% recovered)

Defense Calcs: Using hardest hitting answer in return:

Ran three sets on certain mons, that make a huge variation in RU.

252 Atk Flamigo Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 228-268 (55 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Muk: 255-301 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Muk: 220-261 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Muk: 156-184 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
* Note: Boomburst immunity factored here using Tera.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 302-356 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 196-231 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 271-319 (65.4 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*Lum berry top calc is more common in my own experience. Even default EQ weak loses match up.

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Muk: 207-244 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 208-245 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Hariyama: 350-414 (71.1 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage *Note: Knock off after losing item does not do as much damage.

252 Atk burned Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 134-158 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 192-226 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Krookodile Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 306-362 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*Keep in mind generally scarfed would be often EQ locked.

252 Atk Choice Band Mabosstiff Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 330-390 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Revavroom Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 169-201 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle burned Squawkabilly-Blue Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 248-292 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 220-259 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (22.6 - 26.6% recoil damage) *Muk puts it in KO range after recoil + -1 Gunk. Extreme Speed is 3-4 HKO at best.

252+ SpA Arboliva Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Muk: 210-248 (50.7 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 93-111 (22.4 - 26.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Muk: 73-87 (17.6 - 21%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock (8.7 - 10.4% recovered)

4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (38 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 48-57 (11.5 - 13.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock

Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 252 HP Muk: 100-100 (24.1 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Blissey Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Muk: 90-108 (21.7 - 26%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Copperajah Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 302-356 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Copperajah Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 271-321 (65.4 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Drednaw Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 277-326 (66.9 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ghost Muk: 262-310 (63.2 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 160-190 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Tauros-Paldea-Fire Raging Bull vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 133-157 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 139-164 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock *Note: GS is the hardest hitting attack on Muk despite resist and in return the same thing bar IP.

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Muk: 226-267 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 273-322 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Weavile Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Muk: 312-367 (75.3 - 88.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

What other uses does it have:
~Absorbs Toxic Spikes default. Not too common EH. Can also be lead TS setter.
~ Switch in to absorb damage from choice moves: Poison resists Fighting, fairy, bug (U-Turn), and grass type. With 105 HP/75 Def/100 SPD it's better at special tanking, but can also moderately physical tank as well especially after def/SPD/HP investments.
~Further expanding upon this with 105 base ATK, and choice band, Muk generally gets hit on neutral for less than 50% while being able to hit for 50%<X% on most neutral hits. Even after taking a hit can reliably restore health.
~Poison Touch proc allows it to damage mons putting some 2HKO into 1HKO zone. Outside of Steel and Poison mons and status immune mons. Plaguespread on contact wears down opposing teams and on GS/Poison Jab has two 30% chances to proc. Although not too common in this tier, can be set up for Hex users.
~Curse sets can make it extremely bulky especially paired with leftovers despite damage reduction.
~Solid revenge killer.
~Can also run Toxic utility to splash teams.
~Even if burned can still plague spread due to poison touch.

Beaf Cultist · Jan 19, 2023

YataGarasu said:
I didn't go into the ultimate massive break down, such as issues it faces.

You could have just said this lol. Not trying to beat a dead horse but Garchomp, Gengar, and Chien-Pao calcs still aren’t relevant to RU, and you haven’t really made a point as to why to use Muk over other, similar options. If I wanted a Poison type, the single most broken mon in the tier is also Poison while being way more threatening. If I wanted a tank, I’d run Bellibolt or Hariyama (or hell, even Dudunsparce is probably better). — also let me add that a mon being able to Tera on a move it’s weak to and beating the attacker is uh, not a niche. Literally every mon has access to Tera and therefore every mon can do that

Anyway, now that I’ve finished beating someone else up for gassing up their favorite mon, I’ve done more testing with Flapple and I wanted to post my thoughts!

Could’ve probably posted this in the team bazaar but I also wanted to give some general meta thoughts so here I am.

This is the team I’ve been running,

and I think it gives a pretty good idea of what assistance Flapple needs to work.

Firstly, I realized that if this Flapple struggles with Steels, why not just run Magnezone? Revavroom can’t really switch in on Outrage anyway, and Bronzong gets deleted off the face of the earth with a well-time Zone. Additionally, the rest of the team basically melts every other Steel in the tier. Opposing Revavroom get absolutely crushed by Palossand, and Flamigo… well… it’s Flamigo. Bronzong is the only Steel that can hope to handle it and Magnezone easily wipes Zong out.

So that’s the basic gist of the team. Bait in Steels with Flapple, U-Turn out to Magnezone or one of your other offensive threats to handle it, and pray they don’t outplay you. One big headache for the team is Dachsbun, as Tauros basically can’t hit it, Magnezone gets Body Pressed on switch-in, and Flapple can’t OHKO with Tera Blast, though if you play well and the opponent doesn’t prepare for Tera, you can theoretically still win the 1v1. Still, it’s definitely not an unwinnable matchup, and if you play well anything is possible.

As for my meta thoughts, you might notice this team’s startling lack of hazard removal. Well, basically, all the removal sucks ass. Like, seriously. Tatsugiri is probably the best mon with removal, but that’s just it. It’s a good mon with removal, not a good remover. It struggles to stick around long-term and isn’t bulky enough to Spin freely on most mons, making it extraordinarily difficult to keep hazards off the field. Avalugg is probably a better overall spinner but it’s weak and super exploitable, so I don’t really see it fitting on this team. Basically, if I load into webs or a lead Lycanroc, I just accept that the hazards are going up and do my best to play around them. And honestly, that’s worked out pretty well so far. The dedicated leads I’ve seen are generally pretty terrible, and the actual sweepers on these offense teams would be just as difficult to handle with or without a layer or two of spikes.

Speaking of, the offensive mons. I can’t wait for Beta to roll around, because right now the tier is basically unplayable if both players know what they’re doing. Toxtricity and Haxorus are the main two problem mons. Tox is basically the entire reason I’m running Palossand, and Tera Flying Tauros is specifically for setup Haxorus, which it still loses to if the Hax player just clicks a neutral move. These two mons are absurdly broken, and I honestly don’t feel like playing the tier much more until they’re gone. Beyond them, I don’t think there are really any other day 1 bans. Lycanroc is honestly pretty manageable in most cases, particularly considering how Palossand is borderline-required at the moment and necessitates Crunch to beat, removing a slot that could have been used on some other, more generally annoying option. As for other mons that would definitely be on my radar if I were managing tiering, Oricorio (particularly Sensu), Cloyster, Flamigo, and Heracross all come to mind, but I think they should be left alone at least until the tier settles after the first set of bans, since teams will be a lot more able to slot answers to them when the main two brokemons are out of the picture. Overall, I see a lot of potential with this tier, there’s just definitely a few kinks that need ironing out before I can truly say I enjoy playing it. Thanks for reading, and USE FLAPPLE!!

Critaquil · Jan 19, 2023

Beaf Cultist said:
As for my meta thoughts, you might notice this team’s startling lack of hazard removal. Well, basically, all the removal sucks ass. Like, seriously. Tatsugiri is probably the best mon with removal, but that’s just it. It’s a good mon with removal, not a good remover. It struggles to stick around long-term and isn’t bulky enough to Spin freely on most mons, making it extraordinarily difficult to keep hazards off the field. Avalugg is probably a better overall spinner but it’s weak and super exploitable, so I don’t really see it fitting on this team. Basically, if I load into webs or a lead Lycanroc, I just accept that the hazards are going up and do my best to play around them. And honestly, that’s worked out pretty well so far. The dedicated leads I’ve seen are generally pretty terrible, and the actual sweepers on these offense teams would be just as difficult to handle with or without a layer or two of spikes.

I think hazard removal isn't that bad, we have 2 (5 if you wanna do some dumpster diving) decent spinners and imo they're both pretty decent, lugg is actually pretty good if a bit passive (though I suspect that once haxorus leaves it's usage is gonna drop) and tatsu, while not that great as dedicated removal, also tends to force more exploitable actions from the opponent letting you spin somewhat reliably, as for foggers, I think we actually have some good options that just havent been explored yet, the oricorio forms can reasonably drop hurricane or even quiver dance for defog if the team needs it, alt is still a very solid mon imo that spreads burns reliably and is shockingly bulky on the special side, driftblim is also pretty good at spreading burns while it's ghost typing lets it's team play arround specs toxtricity (don't try this if it's shift gear it won't end well) of course its not perfect, but I'd say we have a decent array of removal at our disposal.

as for the tier hitting beta, tox and hax absolutely need to go, both are way too restricting on teambuilding for them to stick around long term, ignoring potential rises and drops from uu, I think that once those 2 get the axe we're gonna see a pretty balanced tier, lycanroc is strong but not overbearing imo (it's simply too frail for that to be the case imo), I imagine goodra will become the premier dragon of the tier, with strong special attackers like oricorio and rotom becoming more common in the wake of toxtricity, mons I think will fall off are palos for being basically only used to check tox, and avalugg since outside of checking hax and spinning it's remaining uses are fairly limited + poor special bulk.

MasterPlayer · Jan 19, 2023

How is Snow doing in RU? Does the lack of slowking in the tier hinders it or does it do just fine?

Metagame RU Stage 1 - Begin Again (Welcome to gen 9!)

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