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Metagame RU Stage 1 - Begin Again (Welcome to gen 9!)

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RU is an absolute blast to play, lotta offensive options to try out but a decent chunk of defensive mons too so you don't have to just play: Who dies first?

I wanted to just note a one of my favorite sets in the Meta right now:

:sv/Weavile:

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pickpocket
Tera Type: Dark/Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def
- Swords Dance
- Beat Up
- Low Kick/Tera Blast
- Poison Jab

No surprises on the Mon, but the set may be a little unexpected. I think Bulky Physical Offense is the way to go in this tier right now. You've got a glut of options for setup sweepers, revenge killers, wall breakers, physical and special walls, hazard setters, and hazard removers. It's laughably easy to bring a well balanced squad of 6 mons with 110+ atk each, which turns Beat Up into a 100-110 BP move that doesn't miss and breaks sash. This thing actually just wins games on turn 1 if the opponent leads a hazard setter and doesn't have the right walls. But for the most part, it usually claims a mon, steals an item, and goes maybe 50/50 in forcing a terastalization. The beauty of going low kick over tera blast is of course that you save Tera for another mon down the line *cough Haxorus* who surely appreciates weavile forcing the physical walls in early and chipping them. Tera fire or Lum berry are other options to absorb wilo and get another dance but those are pretty niche.

Weavile @ Choice Band/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Beat Up
- Low Kick/Icicle Crash
- Poison Jab

Non-setup, Beat-Up weavile is a very nice mon to pressure opponents throughout the game. Super hard to switch into and blazing fast is unsurprisingly a great combination. Once again, it really appreciates the litany of mons with high base atk stats who keep hazards off your side, hazards on their side, and run through the holes that weavile cracks in the other team.

Here are some Beat-Up team options

Setup sweeper: Haxorus, Primeape, Honchkrow, Cloyster (not great atk but it's only 1.5 BP less than Primeape as far as beat-up goes)

Revenge killers: Heracross, Mabostiff, Krookodile, Passimian, Lycanroc-Dusk

Wall-breakers: Hariyama, Heracross, Copperajah (sneakily decent cuz it always lives 1), Ursaring
*be careful activating status orbs early cuz they will weaken Beat-Up

Physical walls: Mudsdale, Avalugg, Tauros-Paldea, Sandaconda, Arcanine

Special walls: Goodra, Arcanine, Hariyama, Primeape

Hazard setters: Mudsdale, Copperajah, Sandaconda, Heracross, Krookodile, Coalossal (again not great but as long as it's your only low atk it's fine)

Hazard removal: Braviary, Scyther, Avalugg, Coalossal, Altaria (see coal and cloyster)

:SV/Sneasel:
One funny addition to Beat-Up teams is Sneasel who can force in and tera to beat the same mons that Weavile does, which then allows Weavile to act as a midgame breaker/cleaner. Its speed is freaking awesome letting it outrun Lycanroc and Espeon. Sneasel runs the first set on these teams while Weavile runs the second.
 
I wanted to toss down a couple of mons that I think bring a lot of value to a team in the current metagame.

:SV/Lycanroc-Dusk:
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs

Certainly not an unexpected Pokemon, we've all seen him everywhere. But I think his best set going away is choice scarf, I've been very grateful to mostly run into band, sash, and the occasional life orb. He's one of the only mons with enough power and speed to legitimately threaten +2 modest Toxtricity, +1 Haxorus, +2 Cloyster, and +1 Venomoth. The coverage is a thing of beauty and Lyc is one of the absolute best in the business at finishing off weakened teams because of how many moves it can lock into.

:SV/Hariyama:
Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

Hari is my favorite mon of all time so please forgive a little bias here but his utility in this tier is off the charts. Knock off is bonkers in this metagame and getting rid of lefties, boots, and eviolite (FU Primeape) absolutely ruins some stuff. Fake out/BP is an absolute godsend when it comes to stopping sweeps, especially against the ones who lean toward physical frailty. Guts lets him switch into all the will-o's running around, thick fat lets him wall Weavile and non-wilo fire types, he's got great natural bulk to live most hits, and fighting stab is quite strong in the meta currently. He's also got a lot of nice coverage options and, best of all, doesn't NEED tera but usually gets a kill when he uses it. Big fan of him as a glue mon.

BONUS:
:SV/Scyther:
I'm not sold on Scyther yet, but I am intrigued. We're strapped for defoggers and this one packs U-turn as well. Tera finally lets Scyther rid itself of the 4x rocks weakness and its eviolite boosted bulk is nothing to laugh at. The big issues are braviary existing as an option, the first mon from this post being everywhere, and the necessity of spending tera just to get what is only a reasonable wall/hazard remover. I think there might be something here, I just don't see it.
 
Allidoishuynh said:
Certainly not an unexpected Pokemon, we've all seen him everywhere. But I think his best set going away is choice scarf, I've been very grateful to mostly run into band, sash, and the occasional life orb. He's one of the only mons with enough power and speed to legitimately threaten +2 modest Toxtricity, +1 Haxorus, +2 Cloyster, and +1 Venomoth. The coverage is a thing of beauty and Lyc is one of the absolute best in the business at finishing off weakened teams because of how many moves it can lock into.
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I highly disagree, while I think sash and life orb aren't nearly as good, I think that band is significantly better than scarf for numerous reasons, for one, accelrock deals with most speed control issues with relative ease while allowing the dog to slaughter things with banded stone edges and ccs, scarf might be good into offense (which many teams are) but any remotely bulky team shuts down scarf hard, you're forced to predict just to only do around 30% and accomplish very little as they heal up or swap into a resist, meanwhile with band you do significantly better vs bulkier mons and with prio that essentially emulates banded espeed you still put in a ton of work vs offense, overall meaning that it's more consistent into every mu, which imo is what defines a mons best set.
 
Critaquil said:
I highly disagree, while I think sash and life orb aren't nearly as good, I think that band is significantly better than scarf for numerous reasons, for one, accelrock deals with most speed control issues with relative ease while allowing the dog to slaughter things with banded stone edges and ccs, scarf might be good into offense (which many teams are) but any remotely bulky team shuts down scarf hard, you're forced to predict just to only do around 30% and accomplish very little as they heal up or swap into a resist, meanwhile with band you do significantly better vs bulkier mons and with prio that essentially emulates banded espeed you still put in a ton of work vs offense, overall meaning that it's more consistent into every mu, which imo is what defines a mons best set.
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You know what bro? You've convinced me. I was probably a bit too quick on the trigger calling it "the best set going away." Might've been drinking that Kool aid after sweeping 1 too many teams with psychic fangs. Band is filthy too, though I do now think scarf and band are a step better than Sash/orb. Scarf absolutely demands a partnership with a special attacking wall breaker or a mon who can set up on physically bulky walls. I like pairing it with specs indeedee. Band on the other hand fits with a TON of stuff. I'm not 100% sold on banded accelerock as a speed check mostly cuz tera steel/fight are pretty common I think. But it's a definitely a fantastic option in band's favor. What I really like about scarf is that it offers a nearly unique role in the meta as a scarfer who outruns setup mons, whereas band can sometimes compete for a spot against other physical wall breakers with priority (Arcanine, Weavile, the rare band Haxorus). You're definitely right though, band is sweet and I'm holding this L for jumping the gun. You know, after typing this out I'm kinda thinking about running Band Lyc + Scarf Adamant Weavile.
 
Rolling things off a Trailblaze:

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Trailblaze
- Whatever
 
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch

Toxicroak is dangerous in my opinion, I've been using this set a couple of times in RU battles, and this set IMO is great. Double Priority Set.

Bullet Punch for Scarf Gardevoir, Lycanroc Dusk ig who is a huge problem for Croak and benefits from Tera Steel.

Close Combat for STAB, you could also opt for Drain Punch.

Sucker Punch to hit Psychics.

It could run Nasty Plot or Scarf, but I think Swords Dance is the most effective. Hopefully more gets spread about Toxicroak!
 
Haven't seen much sun being used or talked about, and I can see why. There is difficulty in slotting sun sweepers and multiple setters, seeing as we don't have Ninetails this time around, but just wanted to share some sets I've been using.
Prankster Sableye and Defog Scyther are setters:
Scovillain @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast
- Overheat
Scyther @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Close Combat
- Defog
- Sunny Day
Sableye @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunny Day
- Recover
- Encore
- Knock Off

Scovillain:
- On Scovillain you could opt for Zen headbutt over Overheat to 3HKO or 2HKO Dragalge on switchin
- Tera Fairy on Scovillain is for Dragon types that would otherwise wall it's dual stab. (Tera Fairying on Altaria feels so good)
- Tera type can be baited though, but all it does is potentially waste a sun turn
- Fire types are a problem, such as Arcanine
- You COULD use tera ground, but trading the ability to kill Haxorus, Altaria, and some fighting types just to be able to OHKO Arcanine and Coalossol doesn't seem worth it to me. (Not Dragalge with 252 HP)

Scyther:
- Close Combat is very nice coverage for it

Sableye:
- Not really what I would call a good pokemon in RU, however gets the job done
- Prankster encore is amazing, and if needed, emergency prankster sun to outspeed a threat

Overall, Scovillain has high sweeping potential. There are a few pokemon able to take hits, such as Dragalge, the Blobs, Nacl, Arcanine, Rotom-Heat, Coalossol and Goodra (Tera Fairy doesn't OHKO even offensive Goodra), so by no means is this a broken sweeper, but it can do some serious damage.
 
is it worth to run speed nat on shift gear tricity? Also I have been considering running snarl (with drain punch also) instead of overdrive cuz boomburst hits everything like a truck.
 
Allidoishuynh said:
RU is an absolute blast to play, lotta offensive options to try out but a decent chunk of defensive mons too so you don't have to just play: Who dies first?

I wanted to just note a one of my favorite sets in the Meta right now:

:sv/Weavile:

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pickpocket
Tera Type: Dark/Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def
- Swords Dance
- Beat Up
- Low Kick/Tera Blast
- Poison Jab

No surprises on the Mon, but the set may be a little unexpected. I think Bulky Physical Offense is the way to go in this tier right now. You've got a glut of options for setup sweepers, revenge killers, wall breakers, physical and special walls, hazard setters, and hazard removers. It's laughably easy to bring a well balanced squad of 6 mons with 110+ atk each, which turns Beat Up into a 100-110 BP move that doesn't miss and breaks sash. This thing actually just wins games on turn 1 if the opponent leads a hazard setter and doesn't have the right walls. But for the most part, it usually claims a mon, steals an item, and goes maybe 50/50 in forcing a terastalization. The beauty of going low kick over tera blast is of course that you save Tera for another mon down the line *cough Haxorus* who surely appreciates weavile forcing the physical walls in early and chipping them. Tera fire or Lum berry are other options to absorb wilo and get another dance but those are pretty niche.

Weavile @ Choice Band/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Beat Up
- Low Kick/Icicle Crash
- Poison Jab

Non-setup, Beat-Up weavile is a very nice mon to pressure opponents throughout the game. Super hard to switch into and blazing fast is unsurprisingly a great combination. Once again, it really appreciates the litany of mons with high base atk stats who keep hazards off your side, hazards on their side, and run through the holes that weavile cracks in the other team.

Here are some Beat-Up team options

Setup sweeper: Haxorus, Primeape, Honchkrow, Cloyster (not great atk but it's only 1.5 BP less than Primeape as far as beat-up goes)

Revenge killers: Heracross, Mabostiff, Krookodile, Passimian, Lycanroc-Dusk

Wall-breakers: Hariyama, Heracross, Copperajah (sneakily decent cuz it always lives 1), Ursaring
*be careful activating status orbs early cuz they will weaken Beat-Up

Physical walls: Mudsdale, Avalugg, Tauros-Paldea, Sandaconda, Arcanine

Special walls: Goodra, Arcanine, Hariyama, Primeape

Hazard setters: Mudsdale, Copperajah, Sandaconda, Heracross, Krookodile, Coalossal (again not great but as long as it's your only low atk it's fine)

Hazard removal: Braviary, Scyther, Avalugg, Coalossal, Altaria (see coal and cloyster)

:SV/Sneasel:
One funny addition to Beat-Up teams is Sneasel who can force in and tera to beat the same mons that Weavile does, which then allows Weavile to act as a midgame breaker/cleaner. Its speed is freaking awesome letting it outrun Lycanroc and Espeon. Sneasel runs the first set on these teams while Weavile runs the second.
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Awesome idea

https://pokepast.es/849b2355f065cbd8

Here's my attempt. Any improvements you'd make?

Bar Toedscool who obviously drags the team down a bit
 
Made a personal vr, partly because I felt like it and partly because I wanted to get my opinion out in a simple way, the tiermaker I used didn't have alternate forms for mons like lycanroc or oricorio, so the images for those mons represent the best forms of those mons, so lycan would be dusk and oricorio would be ghost/electric (which imo are pretty equal in viability), keep in mind that this is my opinion and I'm fully up for arguments against certain rankings.

my-image (1).png


to explain some of these a bit:

lycan is the best mon in the tier imo, not the most broken, but the most splashable and reliable, imo every non-stall team needs a really good reason to not run it.

toxtricity is the second best mon in the tier imo, specs takes the galarian darmanitan approach of "stop thinking so hard and just kill things", while shift gear sets can end games on the spot if played well

haxorus and flamigo are a step below the other 2 imo, but still phenominal pokemon in their own right, hax is a terrifying sweeper with dd or sd sets while banded completely mauls common switchins while revenging things with first impression, meanwhile flamigo is arguably the best scarfer in the tier with its good speed, strong attack, and access to u-turn

won't explain every mon from here on but I'l note a few ones where I think my opinion might seem a bit odd:

imo garde is incredibly threatening with scarf/specs, with virtually zero safe switchins and giving me bad tapu lele flashbacks it can easily dismantle an unprepared team, it also has a pretty important role of being able to safely revenge shift gear toxtricity thanks to copying punk rock and therefore living even tera normal boomburst.

palossand is in my eyes the best ground in the tier, mainly due to a few important traits that let it stand out, for one, it completely hardwalls most toxtricities given that snarl is rare and hex is even rarer, also notable is its access to shore up making it the only ground to have reliable recovery letting it check things more consistently throughout a match, its ghost typing also makes a huge difference giving it immunity to close combat, one of the most spammed moves in the tier between heracross, haxorus, and lycanroc.

mudstale is also a great ground thanks to it's access to the stamina ability, this, combined with its good physical defense and its pure ground typing, lets it blanket check just about every physical attacker in the tier, including an emergency cloyster check if need be, its relatively good attack also helps it avoid being too passive which is a big deal in such an aggressive meta.

mabosstif is a massive sleeper threat that almost single handedly demolishes defensive teams, its offensive presence is also coupled with its decent bulk and solid typing letting it get many opportunities to switch in.

avalugg can be a bit passive at times but it plays a near irreplaceable role on bulkier teams, checking large physical threats despite its weaknesses to common types, its also a great tera abuser as tera fighting or fairy let it play its role even better, what really seals the deal though is rapid spin, giving it an option to support its team and capitalizing on the many things it forces out.

while the placement of sableye may seem strange, thats mainly due to the fact that ladder seems allergic to using its best set, the dual screens sets are trash and a waste of an otherwise good pokemon, but the knock will o wisp sets are very strong, providing a massive amount of utility and constantly being a massive thorn in the opponents side, its prankster wisp also lets it be an emergency check to an out of control sweeper, which is especially noteworthy given that it doesn't care much about whether or not the opponent teras.

krook is overrated as shit imo, loses to most common threats, outclassed as a scarfer, mediocre as a rocker, very few truly good qualities, its still extremely spashable, but not nearly as good as ladder seems to think it is.

snow is also pretty overrated imo, its very committal and basically loses on the spot if the opponent can effectively threaten abombasnow, which is a lot of things.

if anyone asks about my choices I'd be happy to answer, thanks for reading!
 
Critaquil said:
Made a personal vr, partly because I felt like it and partly because I wanted to get my opinion out in a simple way, the tiermaker I used didn't have alternate forms for mons like lycanroc or oricorio, so the images for those mons represent the best forms of those mons, so lycan would be dusk and oricorio would be ghost/electric (which imo are pretty equal in viability), keep in mind that this is my opinion and I'm fully up for arguments against certain rankings.

View attachment 481082

to explain some of these a bit:

lycan is the best mon in the tier imo, not the most broken, but the most splashable and reliable, imo every non-stall team needs a really good reason to not run it.

toxtricity is the second best mon in the tier imo, specs takes the galarian darmanitan approach of "stop thinking so hard and just kill things", while shift gear sets can end games on the spot if played well

haxorus and flamigo are a step below the other 2 imo, but still phenominal pokemon in their own right, hax is a terrifying sweeper with dd or sd sets while banded completely mauls common switchins while revenging things with first impression, meanwhile flamigo is arguably the best scarfer in the tier with its good speed, strong attack, and access to u-turn

won't explain every mon from here on but I'l note a few ones where I think my opinion might seem a bit odd:

imo garde is incredibly threatening with scarf/specs, with virtually zero safe switchins and giving me bad tapu lele flashbacks it can easily dismantle an unprepared team, it also has a pretty important role of being able to safely revenge shift gear toxtricity thanks to copying punk rock and therefore living even tera normal boomburst.

palossand is in my eyes the best ground in the tier, mainly due to a few important traits that let it stand out, for one, it completely hardwalls most toxtricities given that snarl is rare and hex is even rarer, also notable is its access to shore up making it the only ground to have reliable recovery letting it check things more consistently throughout a match, its ghost typing also makes a huge difference giving it immunity to close combat, one of the most spammed moves in the tier between heracross, haxorus, and lycanroc.

mudstale is also a great ground thanks to it's access to the stamina ability, this, combined with its good physical defense and its pure ground typing, lets it blanket check just about every physical attacker in the tier, including an emergency cloyster check if need be, its relatively good attack also helps it avoid being too passive which is a big deal in such an aggressive meta.

mabosstif is a massive sleeper threat that almost single handedly demolishes defensive teams, its offensive presence is also coupled with its decent bulk and solid typing letting it get many opportunities to switch in.

avalugg can be a bit passive at times but it plays a near irreplaceable role on bulkier teams, checking large physical threats despite its weaknesses to common types, its also a great tera abuser as tera fighting or fairy let it play its role even better, what really seals the deal though is rapid spin, giving it an option to support its team and capitalizing on the many things it forces out.

while the placement of sableye may seem strange, thats mainly due to the fact that ladder seems allergic to using its best set, the dual screens sets are trash and a waste of an otherwise good pokemon, but the knock will o wisp sets are very strong, providing a massive amount of utility and constantly being a massive thorn in the opponents side, its prankster wisp also lets it be an emergency check to an out of control sweeper, which is especially noteworthy given that it doesn't care much about whether or not the opponent teras.

krook is overrated as shit imo, loses to most common threats, outclassed as a scarfer, mediocre as a rocker, very few truly good qualities, its still extremely spashable, but not nearly as good as ladder seems to think it is.

snow is also pretty overrated imo, its very committal and basically loses on the spot if the opponent can effectively threaten abombasnow, which is a lot of things.

if anyone asks about my choices I'd be happy to answer, thanks for reading!
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Nice list. Could quibble on a few placements, but you have Murder Dog #1 so you get full points for that. Just the things I disagree with majorly:

:altaria: Massively overrated Altaria. It can't switch into the physical attackers at all, bar I guess Flamigo. Haxorus, Weavile, Murder Dog, they all destroy it. Now, if you want a physical wall to replace Altaria with and you've somehow left off the list entirely, let me introduce you to...

:bellibolt: This chonky boy is incredible. Ever since I faced it in OU once and it was weirdly difficult to deal with, I've been waiting for the tier where it can be great in, and RU appears to have the right power level for it. Makes amazing use of parabolic charge, especially when paired with its ability. You can use acid spray to lower spdf or soak to catch a ground type.

:naclstack: Naclstack belongs in A-tier. It's a hugely consistent game-to-game performer and can sometimes just win games by itself, very similar to its dad in OU. Believe the hype, the salt stack is good.

:farigiraf: There's a couple of sets this thing can run. I've used the calm mind agility stored power set, and it can win games remarkably easy. It's ability preventing priority is amazing for an agility sweeper, and it has the bulk to get those boosts off reliably. Probably not in the A tiers, but definitely a lot higher than C-

:klawf: I haven't used this guy myself, but I've seen it enough times now to think it's maybe really good? Regenerator is just that good of an ability, and it has knock + rocks.

There's a few others that I need to use more but are probably better than rated here (Salazzle has to be better than C tier, Ursaring I think does have a niche, Zoroark I want to try use more to see what it can be good disguising as, I'm not convinced either Mudsdale or Tatsugiri belong in A-tier), but we agree Murder Dog is best so yay Murder Dog Murder Dog Murder Dog
 
5camp said:
Massively overrated Altaria.
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maybe a little, but imo its not lower than a+, being the only actually good fogger alone makes it a serious consideration on most teams, and while I do agree that it struggles with many physical attackers, thats also not really its job, its mostly a special blanket check where wisp is more of a deterrent to keep physical attackers from coming in, also in terms of physical mons it checks you have the likes of moxie hera, tauros, some primape sets, and in an emergency, revavroom.


5camp said:
:bellibolt:
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not gonna lie I just straight up forgot about this guy lmao, I've run into him on ladder and he's definitely good, though, I'd say he's more of a mid to high b+ mon than a ranker material


5camp said:
:naclstack: Naclstack belongs in A-tier. It's a hugely consistent game-to-game performer and can sometimes just win games by itself, very similar to its dad in OU. Believe the hype, the salt stack is good.
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agree, looking at it again I was definitely underrating this guy a ton, he's probably high a- low a if I were to re-rank him in hindsight.


5camp said:
There's a couple of sets this thing can run. I've used the calm mind agility stored power set, and it can win games remarkably easy. It's ability preventing priority is amazing for an agility sweeper, and it has the bulk to get those boosts off reliably. Probably not in the A tiers, but definitely a lot higher than C-
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I think it can do some cool things, but I also think that needing so many turns to get set up is a massive issue, especially given the low speed, doesn't help that first impression haxorus has been slowly growing in popularity which either forces giraffe out or makes it burn tera, also doesn't help that espeon does most of what it does while being far more versatile and providing great team support with magic bounce, I do agree that its probably better than c-, but not by a whole lot imo.


5camp said:
:klawf: I haven't used this guy myself, but I've seen it enough times now to think it's maybe really good? Regenerator is just that good of an ability, and it has knock + rocks.
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I agree, he absolutely has potential, I just haven't gotten around to trying to build with him and most of the klawfs I've fought either led with it and got ohko'd instantly or were running the greatly inferior anger shell, the one actually decent klawf user I've fought showed that it has a ton of potential, and I think with time I'll think more highly of it.


5camp said:
There's a few others that I need to use more but are probably better than rated here (Salazzle has to be better than C tier, Ursaring I think does have a niche, Zoroark I want to try use more to see what it can be good disguising as, I'm not convinced either Mudsdale or Tatsugiri belong in A-tier),
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lazzle imo suffers from 2 of the best special blankets having natural cure and thus not caring about toxic shenanigans, might be underrating it a bit though, ursaring has a niche but its a tiny one is mostly trick room related (where its almost entirely outclassed by hari), zoro is always a weird one to rank cause of how hard it can be to use but I can definitely see it being higher, I talked a bit about mudsdale already but as for tatsu it being pretty much the only good offensive hazard cleaner is big imo

its cool to see differences in opinions, and I generally agree with a lot of your points, I do dissagree on some, but dog is s tier and we both agree on that so clearly that means we both have the right idea :)
 
Critaquil said:
Made a personal vr, partly because I felt like it and partly because I wanted to get my opinion out in a simple way, the tiermaker I used didn't have alternate forms for mons like lycanroc or oricorio, so the images for those mons represent the best forms of those mons, so lycan would be dusk and oricorio would be ghost/electric (which imo are pretty equal in viability), keep in mind that this is my opinion and I'm fully up for arguments against certain rankings.

View attachment 481082

to explain some of these a bit:

lycan is the best mon in the tier imo, not the most broken, but the most splashable and reliable, imo every non-stall team needs a really good reason to not run it.

toxtricity is the second best mon in the tier imo, specs takes the galarian darmanitan approach of "stop thinking so hard and just kill things", while shift gear sets can end games on the spot if played well

haxorus and flamigo are a step below the other 2 imo, but still phenominal pokemon in their own right, hax is a terrifying sweeper with dd or sd sets while banded completely mauls common switchins while revenging things with first impression, meanwhile flamigo is arguably the best scarfer in the tier with its good speed, strong attack, and access to u-turn

won't explain every mon from here on but I'l note a few ones where I think my opinion might seem a bit odd:

imo garde is incredibly threatening with scarf/specs, with virtually zero safe switchins and giving me bad tapu lele flashbacks it can easily dismantle an unprepared team, it also has a pretty important role of being able to safely revenge shift gear toxtricity thanks to copying punk rock and therefore living even tera normal boomburst.

palossand is in my eyes the best ground in the tier, mainly due to a few important traits that let it stand out, for one, it completely hardwalls most toxtricities given that snarl is rare and hex is even rarer, also notable is its access to shore up making it the only ground to have reliable recovery letting it check things more consistently throughout a match, its ghost typing also makes a huge difference giving it immunity to close combat, one of the most spammed moves in the tier between heracross, haxorus, and lycanroc.

mudstale is also a great ground thanks to it's access to the stamina ability, this, combined with its good physical defense and its pure ground typing, lets it blanket check just about every physical attacker in the tier, including an emergency cloyster check if need be, its relatively good attack also helps it avoid being too passive which is a big deal in such an aggressive meta.

mabosstif is a massive sleeper threat that almost single handedly demolishes defensive teams, its offensive presence is also coupled with its decent bulk and solid typing letting it get many opportunities to switch in.

avalugg can be a bit passive at times but it plays a near irreplaceable role on bulkier teams, checking large physical threats despite its weaknesses to common types, its also a great tera abuser as tera fighting or fairy let it play its role even better, what really seals the deal though is rapid spin, giving it an option to support its team and capitalizing on the many things it forces out.

while the placement of sableye may seem strange, thats mainly due to the fact that ladder seems allergic to using its best set, the dual screens sets are trash and a waste of an otherwise good pokemon, but the knock will o wisp sets are very strong, providing a massive amount of utility and constantly being a massive thorn in the opponents side, its prankster wisp also lets it be an emergency check to an out of control sweeper, which is especially noteworthy given that it doesn't care much about whether or not the opponent teras.

krook is overrated as shit imo, loses to most common threats, outclassed as a scarfer, mediocre as a rocker, very few truly good qualities, its still extremely spashable, but not nearly as good as ladder seems to think it is.

snow is also pretty overrated imo, its very committal and basically loses on the spot if the opponent can effectively threaten abombasnow, which is a lot of things.

if anyone asks about my choices I'd be happy to answer, thanks for reading!
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My only thing is, where’s Syvleon in the upper tiers? It so, so good as a special tank.
 
SKIPPERGAMEZ said:
My only thing is, where’s Syvleon in the upper tiers? It so, so good as a special tank.
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I put sylveon in b+, mostly due to competition with other fairies and better special walls, alt can clear hazards and spreads status far more reliably, and blissey has rocks and has frankly ridiculous special bulk, both also only need one moveslot to reliably heal wheras sylveon needs 2, meaning what utility it does provide is severely limited by having to pick which one it wants, it also doesn't help that the vast majority of the tier is physical, hence why you often see mons like fire tauros who can intimidate the physical threats, meanwhile with their base 65 defense sylveon is rarely taking a physical hit, let alone more than one. overall, you could probaly make a decent case for it being higher, but I just don't see it.
 
schlondark said:
I've found Florges to be incredibly bad. It's more passive than it should be, lacks an ability (Flower Veil Tera isn't even great) and dies quickly to even the most meager of neutral physical hits. It's a waste of time in a tier with monsters like dusk mane, flamigo, Haxorus, Krook, Weavile, and Cloyster.
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honestly, yeah I agree, its basically just a worse sylveon in most cases, and the few use cases it does have are niche and rarely come into play.
 
gonna post some of my takes on the tier with explanations for anything that I have a lot of experience using and playing against

Ban:
:cloyster: Obviously this is a super early thing to say, but when exploring defensive options for this thing they're extremely limited and nearly impossible when factoring Tera compared to the ease of use this thing has. Tera Ice sets can muscle past raw physical walls like Bellibolt while Tera Grass and Electric obviously break through bulky Water-types like Vaporeon and Slowbro. Cloyster's bulk, especially paired with Screens makes it far too easy to set up for how difficult it is to manage.

:haxorus: Haxorus, much like Dragon Dance users in tiers above it, is a prime example of what can break Tera. Lose to Sableye and Slowbro? Tera Dark. Lose to Fairy- and Ice-types? Tera Steel. These are the two best examples but Haxorus has a very malleable movepool and bulk. Haxorus can also use Swords Dance with Trailblaze probably more effectively than Dragon Dance but that's up for debate.

S tier:

:slowbro: Keeps the broken Fighting-types like Flamigo and Tauros in check and stays healthy with Slack Off and Regenerator. Calm Mind sets can take over games quite easily, bolstered further by Terastalizing. Yawn and Thunder Wave can also be spammed with no commitment in a tier with very little answers to status. Future Sight pairs incredibly well with Dark-types like Weavile and Krookadile for essentially guaranteed KO’s when set up properly.

A tier:
:tauros-paldea-fire: Fantastic offensive presence even when defensively oriented, able to check a lot of the tier and reliably spread burns. Offensive sets are also quite good in their own right, with either Choice Band or Cud Chew strats. Intimidate and Fire-Fighting typing lets Tauros check big threats like Weavile, Slush Rush sweepers, and Heracross.

:bellibolt: Bellibolt can effectively 1v1 most of the tier with Soak, Charge Beam, and Parabolic Charge. It's bulk lets it even stifle out setup sweepers like Scarf Heracross and Cloyster. Soak while Charged often forces an immediate switch, making hazard stacking insane when paired with Bellibolt.

:gardevoir: Particularly Choice Scarf sets are amazing offensively in a tier lacking good Steel-types while Trick and Trace give Gardevoir amazing utility.

:toxtricity: I think the Shift Gear Tera-Normal set is quite overrated, but Choice Specs is nearly uncheckable and Shift Gear sets are still good, just not the auto-win button some people make it out to be.

:mudsdale:

:abomasnow: :cetitan: Insane Snow core, Cetitan is very difficult to check, especially with Tera. I've used Tera-Dark to wall Sableye but Tera Ice can make for even stronger +6 Ice Shards and Fairy, Fire, and Ghost can make for great defensive Teras to enable a safer Belly Drum.

:rotom: (Heat and Mow)

:weavile: Choice Band with Beat Up completely dunks on all the dedicated leads and besides Tauros and Arcanine can 2HKO almost the whole tier and even has Ice Shard to pick off weakened Scarf users and setup sweepers.

:bronzong: The SSNU IronPress set that I made way back when is still super dumb. Basically the only good Steel-type with SR and good coverage too.

Other stuff I haven't used but seems A rank worthy when playing against or just thinking about it:
:goodra: :blissey: :arcanine: :heracross: :magnezone: :lycanroc-dusk: :oricorio: :sableye: :sylveon: :flamigo: :tatsugiri: :salazzle: :krookodile: :espeon:


Stuff I think is B rank worthy or below.
:primeape: :komala: :spidops: :hariyama: :lycanroc: :froslass: :altaria: :dragalge: :drifblim: :beartic: :dudunsparce: :zoroark: :veluza:

Sorry for the watered down second half of this post I got tired :0
 
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Critaquil said:
Made a personal vr, partly because I felt like it and partly because I wanted to get my opinion out in a simple way, the tiermaker I used didn't have alternate forms for mons like lycanroc or oricorio, so the images for those mons represent the best forms of those mons, so lycan would be dusk and oricorio would be ghost/electric (which imo are pretty equal in viability), keep in mind that this is my opinion and I'm fully up for arguments against certain rankings.

View attachment 481082

to explain some of these a bit:

lycan is the best mon in the tier imo, not the most broken, but the most splashable and reliable, imo every non-stall team needs a really good reason to not run it.

toxtricity is the second best mon in the tier imo, specs takes the galarian darmanitan approach of "stop thinking so hard and just kill things", while shift gear sets can end games on the spot if played well

haxorus and flamigo are a step below the other 2 imo, but still phenominal pokemon in their own right, hax is a terrifying sweeper with dd or sd sets while banded completely mauls common switchins while revenging things with first impression, meanwhile flamigo is arguably the best scarfer in the tier with its good speed, strong attack, and access to u-turn

won't explain every mon from here on but I'l note a few ones where I think my opinion might seem a bit odd:

imo garde is incredibly threatening with scarf/specs, with virtually zero safe switchins and giving me bad tapu lele flashbacks it can easily dismantle an unprepared team, it also has a pretty important role of being able to safely revenge shift gear toxtricity thanks to copying punk rock and therefore living even tera normal boomburst.

palossand is in my eyes the best ground in the tier, mainly due to a few important traits that let it stand out, for one, it completely hardwalls most toxtricities given that snarl is rare and hex is even rarer, also notable is its access to shore up making it the only ground to have reliable recovery letting it check things more consistently throughout a match, its ghost typing also makes a huge difference giving it immunity to close combat, one of the most spammed moves in the tier between heracross, haxorus, and lycanroc.

mudstale is also a great ground thanks to it's access to the stamina ability, this, combined with its good physical defense and its pure ground typing, lets it blanket check just about every physical attacker in the tier, including an emergency cloyster check if need be, its relatively good attack also helps it avoid being too passive which is a big deal in such an aggressive meta.

mabosstif is a massive sleeper threat that almost single handedly demolishes defensive teams, its offensive presence is also coupled with its decent bulk and solid typing letting it get many opportunities to switch in.

avalugg can be a bit passive at times but it plays a near irreplaceable role on bulkier teams, checking large physical threats despite its weaknesses to common types, its also a great tera abuser as tera fighting or fairy let it play its role even better, what really seals the deal though is rapid spin, giving it an option to support its team and capitalizing on the many things it forces out.

while the placement of sableye may seem strange, thats mainly due to the fact that ladder seems allergic to using its best set, the dual screens sets are trash and a waste of an otherwise good pokemon, but the knock will o wisp sets are very strong, providing a massive amount of utility and constantly being a massive thorn in the opponents side, its prankster wisp also lets it be an emergency check to an out of control sweeper, which is especially noteworthy given that it doesn't care much about whether or not the opponent teras.

krook is overrated as shit imo, loses to most common threats, outclassed as a scarfer, mediocre as a rocker, very few truly good qualities, its still extremely spashable, but not nearly as good as ladder seems to think it is.

snow is also pretty overrated imo, its very committal and basically loses on the spot if the opponent can effectively threaten abombasnow, which is a lot of things.

if anyone asks about my choices I'd be happy to answer, thanks for reading!
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We live in a timeline where former OU king Weavile is only considered “decent” in the RU tier
 
How the heck y'all dealing with double smash teams, or even any single shell smasher? can't tell which one I hate more between Drednaw and Cloyster but the latter is probably straight up broken rn.


Running this team, could also just be shoddily built since I did hastily put it together based on what people are saying works well in this thread: https://pokepast.es/d73d8525b93f401a
 
Menu_SV_Revavroom.png

One of the best set up sweepers available rn imo. Often times the answer is something that relies on EQ like Muds/Krook in order to take it down, typically switching in after you Shift Gear. Magnet Rise alleviates that issue, forcing them to rely on Body Press/Crunch. It's very easy to take control of a game based on the opponents assumption they can reliably handle hits from this. Tera Poison is my current favorite, but Flying could also be a consideration for similar reasons Magnezone would run it, but you will want to change to Leftovers. Currently using it on a veil team to further take advantage of the benefits of a poison type that can't be Earthquake'd.

Revavroom @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Magnet Rise
- Iron Head
- Gunk Shot
 
:sv/mabosstiff:

Mabosstiff @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Play Rough
- Retaliate
- Destiny Bond

I really like this scarf set, retaliate is such a nice move to click vs teams without a steel or Nacl. Plus no ghost type in the universe is switching into stakeout boosted crunch so you never have to worry about literally doing 0. Destiny bond is very cheesy, but people who don't scout for it are usually very frustrated that they didn't. Play rough is obvious but holy moly I wish good boy here had a non-tera fighting move.
 
Heya, i want to make a post detailing my first impressions of mons here in SV RU! Very interesting tier so far and I can't wait to see how it develops further.

:passimian: I am addicted to Knock Off, and Passimian is one of the few Pokémon that retain this move while also having a pivot option, good coverage and a good stab. Great mon, I think it's probably one of the top two fighting types right now, alongside Flamigo

:hariyama: This mon is really damn good on screens with a Belly Drum set. Tera Steel to get STAB on Bullet Punch and at +6 with Hariyama's attack, you OHKO mons that would otherwise be able to beat you like Flamigo and Moxie Krookodile (Intimidate makes it 12% chance to OHKO but with rocks that turns into a 50% so two rounds of SR and you now OHKO). Steel also flips type MU's, overall an incredibly threatening mon.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Thick Fat gives it Dark + Ice Resistances which means you are a great answer to Weavile.

:palossand: Reliable recovery and rocks with the ability to scare Espeon on switch with Shadow Ball, beats fighting types pretty well, i'd say this mon is probably the best defensive ground type we have.

:avalugg: RU actually favours this mon a lot, dangerous physical attackers suich as Haxorus exist in the tier rn and Avalugg is one of the only counters while also packing hazard control. I doubt this will stay long after Haxorus and other dangerous physical attackers leave but its certainly interesting how Tera has breathed life into this Pokémon.

:farigiraf: Another mon i like on screens, it has respectable bulk and a great ability helping it deal with priority such as Arcanine's Extreme Speed or Weavile's Ice Shard, while also shutting down Prankster Pokémon such as Sableye, who is becoming quite common due to the offensive nature of this tier. It does need two turns to actually set up though, hence why you need to support with screens.

:altaria: Best defensive hazard control in the tier in my opinion, Avalugg is great and all but Altaria has a better typing from the start and get spread burns nicely while checking the Fighting Types of the tier. I don't need to say much more about it, just a nice mon.

:whiscash: Wow! Whiscash buff! This gen it got Stealth Rock and Spikes, topped with the fact that it has Oblivious to block Taunt from the likes of Froslass, so it definitely has a niche here.

:mismagius: Tera + Levitate is a great combo on any mon, give it to a strong special attacker with Nasty Plot and you have a recipe for success. My favourite set so far has been Tera Steel SubPlot Mismagius sets, using steels valuable resistances to get a plot up and ruin the opposing team. Cool Mon.

:espeon: When hazard control looks dire, Espeon is a great addition to the tier to help stave off hazard stacking strategies and webs which I see a lot while also being a great screen setter due to blocking Taunt and having great offensive stats that help it not be passive. Seems pretty great to me.

:Haxorus: :Toxtricity: :Venomoth: Lumping all three together because I think these 3 are all banworthy in the tier. Haxorus is crazy, when Avalugg is seeing usage to counter something, i think we have a problem. Toxtricity is a Tera Abuser with Boomburst + Punk Rock, absolutely shatters teams. You know something is strong when Blissey is 2HKO'd by it. Venomoth is probably the weakest of the 3 but still incredibly strong on screens teamstyles with Quiver Dance and also abuses Tera a lot, i prefer Tera Fire to hit Steels like Revaroom while also being able to hit Bronzong for Super Effective Damage. Overall, i hope when Beta comes that these 3 are looked at :)
 
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