Sharking probably popularised Counter Alakazam in RU. He wrote an RMT somewhere and I've seen a few people use them. Basically if you see an Alakazam lead, it's probably gonna Counter.
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RU Threat List
- Thread starter Xephyr
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you sir, just made Wobbuffett cry
Also, why isn't he listed in Defensive threats? He was an Uber for two gens...
Has anyone tried Archeops? It seems to me that Rock/Flying is a great typing in this tier due to the multitude of bug types. Running a mixed set of Stone Edge/Acrobatics/HP Grass/EQ has few counters or checks.
Here are some calcs (assuming 252 Atk/ 4SpAtk/ 252Spe Naive and 252HP/252+Def unless stated otherwise):
Tangela 50.3~59.28% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Rhyperior (252/0) 82.95~98.62% (HP Grass) 2HKO
Rhydon (252/0) 67.63~80.19% (HP Grass) 2HKO
Ferroseed 33.22~39.38% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Munchlax (252/0) 50~58.86% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Aggron 73.26~87.21% (Earthquake) 2HKO
Umbreon 37.27~38.83% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Gastrodon 61.97~73.24% (HP Grass) 2HKO (Specially defensive gets 2HKOed by Acrobatics)
Gligar 26.35~31.44 4HKO!
Quagsire 80.2~95.43% (HP Grass) 2HKO (3HKOed by Acrobatics)
Golduck (252/0) 64.29~75.82% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Uxie 32.2~38.14% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Dusknoir 37.76~44.9% (Acrobatics) 3HKO
Cresselia 27.25~32.43% (Acrobatics) 4HKO
Cofagrigus 33.12~39.38% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
(Bear in mind that the first, Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics does even more damage (Nearly half to Cresselia))
As you can see, Archeops clearly appreciates hazards to wear down the opponent's counters, but still has only a handful of counters (4 of which are weak to Ghost and 2 whom are weak to fighting), his great speed leaves his checks few and far between (Only outsped by Swellow, Sceptile, Alazakam and speed boosters.) and is capable of investing more on either side of the spectrum in order to beat his more common counters. Other notable moves that could be run are Earth Power, Focus Blast (2HKOes Ferroseed and 3HKOes Umbreon), HP Fire (basically just for Ferroseed), Quick Attack and U-turn (for obvious reasons). You could also run Substitute over Stone Edge to ease prediction, although Archeops really needs his health. For obvious reasons, Archeops performs best with wish and spinning support.
Here are some calcs (assuming 252 Atk/ 4SpAtk/ 252Spe Naive and 252HP/252+Def unless stated otherwise):
Tangela 50.3~59.28% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Rhyperior (252/0) 82.95~98.62% (HP Grass) 2HKO
Rhydon (252/0) 67.63~80.19% (HP Grass) 2HKO
Ferroseed 33.22~39.38% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Munchlax (252/0) 50~58.86% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Aggron 73.26~87.21% (Earthquake) 2HKO
Umbreon 37.27~38.83% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Gastrodon 61.97~73.24% (HP Grass) 2HKO (Specially defensive gets 2HKOed by Acrobatics)
Gligar 26.35~31.44 4HKO!
Quagsire 80.2~95.43% (HP Grass) 2HKO (3HKOed by Acrobatics)
Golduck (252/0) 64.29~75.82% (Acrobatics) 2HKO
Uxie 32.2~38.14% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
Dusknoir 37.76~44.9% (Acrobatics) 3HKO
Cresselia 27.25~32.43% (Acrobatics) 4HKO
Cofagrigus 33.12~39.38% (Acrobatics) 3-4HKO
(Bear in mind that the first, Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics does even more damage (Nearly half to Cresselia))
As you can see, Archeops clearly appreciates hazards to wear down the opponent's counters, but still has only a handful of counters (4 of which are weak to Ghost and 2 whom are weak to fighting), his great speed leaves his checks few and far between (Only outsped by Swellow, Sceptile, Alazakam and speed boosters.) and is capable of investing more on either side of the spectrum in order to beat his more common counters. Other notable moves that could be run are Earth Power, Focus Blast (2HKOes Ferroseed and 3HKOes Umbreon), HP Fire (basically just for Ferroseed), Quick Attack and U-turn (for obvious reasons). You could also run Substitute over Stone Edge to ease prediction, although Archeops really needs his health. For obvious reasons, Archeops performs best with wish and spinning support.
waterwarrior said:
My bad, I worded it wrong
Obviously he can use priority bullet punch outside of TR
During TR he can use Bullet Punch to hit Priority users trying to out speed him in Trickroom, although he's better off using trying to sweep in TR most of the time even if they're using priority moves unless it's Suckerpunch because Suckerpunch doesn't work if the opponent hits first.
Xephyr said:
I personally use Sleep Talk in the last slot for my CB Entei, Since Entei doesn't have much of a move pool and the surprise factor when Venemoth get's KO-ed by either a Sleep talk Flare Blitz or Stone Edge.
I guess Iron Head Still hits Rhyperior but I never found it particularly useful myself.
@ Rackham
Archeops has a really bad ability, Defeatist
If only it had Roost it could work around it but sadly it doesn't, or if it had skill swap.
I can see Endeavour working on Archeops, as you HP decreases lower then 50%, most of your moves probably won't be doing enough damage anyway. Maybe a Combination of Head Smash and Endeavour.
Cofagrigus is Archeops best friend, hit Cofagrigus so you lose your deafeatist ability for a better ability "Mummy"
Can't really think of anything else.
God I hope you're trolling. How the hell is "This really powerful attack does 25% to a defnesive threat!" a reason to use it. Its a reason to NOT use it. And, you know, while you're taking your sweet 4 turns to kill one poke, they take you down to under 50% with one hit, turning your 4HKO into a 7 or 8HKO. Needs too much support to actually work and the calcs aren't convincing.
Archeops isn't that bad, but it ability makes using it as a all out attacker hard. I have been able to have some success with a Scarf Archeops though. It is a decent scout with U-Turn and great speed, but can still hit really hard off 140 Atk. Oh, and it is aldo incredibly gratifying to OHKO Yanmega and Sharpedo after they protect and think they are faster. If you can keep rocks off the field It can be a great Pokemon.
Curious question, how does defeatist work?
Does it work like Guts and Unburden where it just halves your stats or is it more like speed boost/ lightning rod/ Motor Drive/ Sap Sipper/ Strom Drain where it actually gives you a -3 att and Sp-att, in which case would white herb cure Archeops ability at least temporarily.
Obvious if it's the 1st case then there's no helping Archeops.
Does it work like Guts and Unburden where it just halves your stats or is it more like speed boost/ lightning rod/ Motor Drive/ Sap Sipper/ Strom Drain where it actually gives you a -3 att and Sp-att, in which case would white herb cure Archeops ability at least temporarily.
Obvious if it's the 1st case then there's no helping Archeops.
It's basically Game Freak's trolling at its best.
However, Archeops still DOMINATES in-game.
Defeatist is up there as one of the worst abilities imaginable, but it's not exactly hurting Archeops too much since you don't want him to get hit by anything anyway. He takes hits like wet tissue paper.
I'm unsure why you would run calcs to show how "useful" Archeops is against major walls in this tier. I would personally never leave in an Archeops to deal with a wall. Even though he is one of my favorite Pokemon, the ability completely nerfs him. CB Jolly Archeops hits like a truck though with proper Wish/Spin support though, I must say.
Why does Eviolite Onix not get any love? He has the 7th highest base defense stat and with the eviolite boost it gives him Defense well over 500 which is beast just make sure you have a good special wall to support him with like cress or umbreon
He's pretty much a worse Shuckle. He has 35 HP, 45 Atk/SpDef, 4x weakness to Grass/Water, not to mention 2x weaknesses to Ice, Ground, Fighting, and Steel. He likely can't do anything useful that Shuckle can't do better.
well he can take care of some of the bug types in this tier with stealth rocks and STAB rock moves along with the acess to rock polish and resistance to bug and flying type attacks
Yeah, except Rhyperior and Rhydon do that ASTRONOMICALLY better.
He was worse offensive stats than WURMPLE. It can't do anything besides lay down Rocks without several Curses unless it hits something 4x weak to Rock.
Nope.
I'd even go as far as saying that Rhyhorn is better than Onix.
I would say Onix is usable in LC, its speed is at least decent for that tier. But here in RU there are hundreds of better options. Rhydon and Rhyperior are better in almost every way. I would not go as far as saying Rhyhorn is better, but guys Like Golem, Eviolite Pupitar and, hell, even Graveler has more use than Onix. You need more than just massive defense if you want to be useful.
Speaking of Pupitar, it is actually a neat little Pokemon. Eviolite makes it bulky, Dragon Dance lets it set up, and Shed Skin helps it shake off status problems. Its not the greatest thing ever, but it is a cool Pokemon to try.
Speaking of Pupitar, it is actually a neat little Pokemon. Eviolite makes it bulky, Dragon Dance lets it set up, and Shed Skin helps it shake off status problems. Its not the greatest thing ever, but it is a cool Pokemon to try.
Bastiodon would work better for countering Yanmega than Onix would. He resists both STABs and has the defenses of Blissey and Skarmory combined, on top of having much more HP than Onix. The problem is that all he could really do is sponge hits and maybe set up rocks and Roar. He basically sucks for doing anything else with Base 52/47/30 offenses, and his typing is way too poor to really be an effective Curse user (as well as lack of recovery outside of Rest/Leftovers).
Even still, I think it's better than Onix =/
Even still, I think it's better than Onix =/
Well Metal Burst can be taken as an offensive move, saying as it allows him to take he hit (which he obviously can) and then kill the poke that hit him, as long as they're slower than Bastiodon (and with base 30 Speed and a -Speed nature, that's pretty much everything). I actually used Bastiodon in Gen 4 NU/UU for a time, and that bitch can take an Earthquake from an Adamant max attack Nidoking, as a sign of its sheer bulk.
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