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Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

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Hi!
The original nomination was for A+ rank. I don't think Diogo was saying Fletchinder should actually be S rank. His comment was more suggesting he thinks it should be S rank, but wasn't going to defend a rise himself. Since Blastoise and Diancie are both RU, two counters that don't care about burns, I think Fletchinder will be fine in A+ since its still a great sweeper. It's pretty flexible on how it can be placed on a team, the only support it absolutely needs is a hazard remover (the drops that have happened over the past few months have made hazard removers more accessible) and a wall breaker, stuff any sweeper needs. Gale Wings sets it apart from those sweepers since it does not have many Pokemon that out speed. The drops have helped and hurt Fletchinder, but it still revenge kills a lot of top Pokemon like Sharpedo (lacking Aqua Jet), Absol (unless jolly but that kinda died when SD Absol died thx to Diancie), Abomasnow, all grass types, offensive Accelgor and more! Never have I ever doubted Fletchinder's place on a team. I lean more towards A+ rank.
Also I really don't like calling out people like this but @ above Jolteon and Eelektross aren't exactly "relevant" to current RU imo, if you were going to list offensive Fletchinder checks stuff like Aerodactyl (which dies to +2 acro after rocks + life orb coil or just switching in on 1 acro), Tyrantrum (good check!), Diancie, Qwilfish, Manectric (same as aero), Seismitoad, Druddigon (Toxic Druddigon is cool!!), Samurott to an extent and Rotom make you seem smarter which it seems this forum is all about!

You guys are really mean to each other sometimes, try listening to this song D:
 
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C- ---> Unranked
I think it's pretty much clear that Charizard's only real niche is as a sun wallbreaker. But let's be honest it only fits onto one uncommon archetype and you will hardly ever find it worthwhile to put onto a team unless you just wanted to use Charizard. I can think of soo many other pokemon to abuse in this slot such as Houndoom, Emboar, Camerupt and Delphox. Also Sun teams generally have no hazard control from what I've seen so if you opponent gets up Stealth Rocks it becomes much harder to use already.

victreebel.gif

Unranked ---> C-
Kind of like the opposite of Charizard where this is like arguably the best choice as a chlorophyll abuser. Sun only got better with Venusaur as it probably the most reliable abuser but Victrebell is a powerful wallbreaker that can actually deal with Steel-types (Venu may have HP Fire but it honestly is underwhelming compared to Weather Ball. It also possesses Growth and Sleep Powder which is nice for each situation. Overall Victrebell is just a great pick for Sun teams.
Definitely agree with Zard being unranked. It has a pretty bad ability in Solar Power, which puts it on a timer (yeah I know it gets a Sp.Atk boost but it still sucks), and its bulk makes sure it won't survive 8 turns anyway. Not only that, but it loses half its health once Stealth Rock is on the field. I get that it isn't supposed to take hits, but these factors do limit its chances to do any damage. Oh, and anything with a Rock move kills it, STAB or not. Even he who shall not be named is better than Zard.

No opinion on Victreebel as I haven't used it. Vileplume's the better sun sweeper anyways imo.
 
Hi!
The original nomination was for A+ rank. I don't think Diogo was saying Fletchinder should actually be S rank. His comment was more suggesting he thinks it should be S rank, but wasn't going to defend a rise himself. Since Blastoise and Diancie are both RU, two counters that don't care about burns, I think Fletchinder will be fine in A+ since its still a great sweeper. It's pretty flexible on how it can be placed on a team, the only support it absolutely needs is a hazard remover (the drops that have happened over the past few months have made hazard removers more accessible) and a wall breaker, stuff any sweeper needs. Gale Wings sets it apart from those sweepers since it does not have many Pokemon that out speed. The drops have helped and hurt Fletchinder, but it still revenge kills a lot of top Pokemon like Sharpedo (lacking Aqua Jet), Absol (unless jolly but that kinda died when SD Absol died thx to Diancie), Abomasnow, all grass types, offensive Accelgor and more! Never have I ever doubted Fletchinder's place on a team. I lean more towards A+ rank.
Also I really don't like calling out people like this but @ above Jolteon and Eelektross aren't exactly "relevant" to current RU imo, if you were going to list offensive Fletchinder checks stuff like Aerodactyl (which dies to +2 acro after rocks + life orb coil or just switching in on 1 acro), Tyrantrum (good check!), Diancie, Qwilfish, Manectric (same as aero), Seismitoad, Druddigon (Toxic Druddigon is cool!!), Samurott to an extent and Rotom make you seem smarter which it seems this forum is all about!

You guys are really mean to each other sometimes, try listening to this song D:

I can second the motion that we need to be nice to each other. I know I'm sometimes harsh and I'm really trying to work on that, but voicing opinions in an unpleasant way makes the conversation less enjoyable and constructive for both parties. I see your point about jolteon not being relevant, but I wouldn't completely disregard Eelectross, as being a slow volt switcher that can reliably deal with bulky water types (even water/grounds, with giga drain) gives it a niche slightly above "irrelevant" in RU.
 
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Definitely agree with Zard being unranked. It has a pretty bad ability in Solar Power, which puts it on a timer (yeah I know it gets a Sp.Atk boost but it still sucks), and its bulk makes sure it won't survive 8 turns anyway. Not only that, but it loses half its health once Stealth Rock is on the field. I get that it isn't supposed to take hits, but these factors do limit its chances to do any damage. Oh, and anything with a Rock move kills it, STAB or not. Even he who shall not be named is better than Zard.

No opinion on Victreebel as I haven't used it. Vileplume's the better sun sweeper anyways imo.
Vileplume has Moonblast but no way to hit Steel-types while Vic has Weather Ball which is exclusive to itself as a sun sweeper. Just a little tidbit
 
I think Bronzong should drop to B+. With Hoopa cementing its position in the tier as a formidable threat, Pursuit trappers are on pretty much every team... from Absol and Drapion on offensive teams to Spiritomb on bulkier teams. This is not good for our floating bell, which finds itself Pursuit-trapped far more often than it ever was. This in turn makes it more of a liability and less effective at its job of setting Stealth Rock throughout the match and checking offensive threats. Since Mega Steelix and even the maligned Registeel do not care as much about Pursuit and are, thus, not completely fucked half the time once they switch in, this means Bronzong competes even more with them for a teamslot, which is not fitting of an A- Pokemon.
 
Charizard: Agree 100%. Charizard has a terrible Rocks weakness and is generally outclassed by Delphox and Houndoom as a special attacking Fire-type that abuses sunlight. Perhaps it could be reranked later if DD or SD sets prove to be useful, but it should be unranked for now.

Victreebel: Idk about being the most reliable Chlorophyll abuser, but it's right near or equal to Venusaur in that department. What it lacks in bulk it makes up for with the ability to use Weather Ball alongside Chlorophyll. Victreebel can't really be used outside of Sun, but it performs a lot like Ludicolo does in Rain, so I feel it should probably be C- rank.

Bronzong: Another point that goes against Bronzong is the fact that Hoopa just blows right past it with Shadow Ball. Because of this, it has a hard time using a turn to set up Stealth Rock against any team with Hoopa due to the fact it has such few defensive checks and a status move like Stealth Rock is one of the few moves Hoopa can switch into. Because of its poor matchup with Hoopa and the fact that Pursuit users are more common than ever before, Bronzong should probably be B+ rank.
 
I guess I can agree with rising Victreebel as it is prolly the second best Chlorophyll abuser behind Venusaur. I'm saying Venusaur is the best Chlorophyll abuser because even though Victreebel has Weather Ball to easily chip down at Steel-types, Venusaur's higher overall bulk and speed (assuming both are modest, Venusaur can outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Manectric while Victreebel only catches Adamant Scarf ant, meaning it misses out on base 100 Speed scarfers such as Flygon) make it quite a solid choice and still a relatively imposing threat outside of sun since Victreebel is stuck with a 50 BP Normal-type move if you happen to choke and lose your sun setters. Personally when I make sun teams I use Sleep Powder Victreebel in order to take advantage of stuff that isn't OHKO'd by any of its and can risk to take it down and Growth Venusaur, which can find a larger margin of setup opportunities with its great bulk. Also Mega-Pokebattlerz I don't see how your claim about Vileplume being a superior Chloro abuser over Victreebel can be true. Looking stat-wise, Timid Vileplume still has lower Special Attack and Speed than Modest Victreebel. The lack of Weather Ball further cements Victreebel's superiority as a sun sweeper over Vileplume. Even then if you'd want to fit in more than two sun sweepers (which I really think ya should since you'd prolly want to fit a Flying resist and a separate Fire-type aside from two weather setters) I'd honestly feel like Shiftry would be the next best thing after Venu and V-bell. Gonna bring up a discussion point:

Abomasnow to A-. While it lacks the overall bulk of its Mega counterpart, the rise in speed and slightly more power makes up for it quite well. tbh ya could say it does the All-out-Attacker role much better than Mega Abomasnow due to the advantages standard Abomasnow has. The higher power makes it much harder to switch into plus the speed is pretty nice to give the edge over some stuff megasnow can't outspeed such as CB Scrafty. Using standard Abomasnow also provides the opportunity to use a separate Mega such as Steelix, which can be pretty nice for teambuilding. The most outstanding flaw I can find in standard aboma is its higher susceptibility to priority due to its lower bulk, but I feel as if the advantages it has compensate for such. All in all, I just feel as if standard Abomasnow is just as fearful of a wallbreaker as its Mega form is, which makes it reasonable candidate for A-.
 
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Alright, it's been a week since we got it, so I'll start discussion on it I suppose.

Hoopa: There was a lot of hype surrounding it with that immense Special Attack, high Attack, and Special Defense that rivals that of Virizion. It gets Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, a good offensive movepool, and it can spinblock. However, all of this is theory. In actuality, Hoopa struggles in the current meta for two reasons: its typing and its Speed tier. Hoopa has a Psychic / Ghost typing with only base 60 Defense, meaning that it'll go down to any Pursuit whether it stays in or not (yes, even Zebstrika just to give you an idea as to how weak to Pursuit it is lol) RU isn't short on Pursuit users with Absol, Drapion, Spiritomb, Sneasel, and Houndoom. There's even Aerodactyl as a more niche Pursuit user. Now, this wouldn't be quite so bad if Hoopa could actually outspeed them to force a 50 / 50. However, this is not the case. Aside from Spiritomb and Escavalier, Hoopa is outsped by every common Pursuit user and cannot survive even if it stays in. So any team with Absol, Drapion, Sneasel, Houndoom, or Aerodactyl will automatically check Hoopa easily as long as they carry Pursuit. There's another reason that typing is bad. Base 130 Special Defense is absolutely fantastic as Virizion has shown us. However, Virizion has the typing to put it to good use while Hoopa lacks notable special resistances outside of Psychic, of which most of these kinds of Pokemon either have super effective coverage moves (Meloetta, Sigilyph) or a powerful secondary STAB to hit it with and still 2HKO (Delphox) And all of these Psychic-types outspeed Hoopa. Specs is vastly outclassed by Life Orb and Scarf struggles with Pursuit users on most teams and being trolled by Tyrantrum. Sub sets struggle to set up on most Pokemon that have decently powerful neutral STABs and physical mixed sets just aren't effective with Mega Steelix and Alomomola on plenty of teams. If Hoopa finds its way in, it likely is getting 1-2 kills before it goes down, but the problem is getting it in and outspeeding notable offensive threats aside from Exploud, Scrafty, Tangrowth, etc. I was so close to putting it at B+ because of all of these issues, but the sheer wallbreaking power it has I think is good enough to hold it up at A-. It's just barely better than Exploud due to the fact that it will kill anything slower than it with its great coverage and Hyperspace Hole is huge for successfully breaking Alomomola and Aromatisse without much effort.

Abomasnow: I can get behind this. With a spread of 100 Atk / 252 SpA / 156 Spe, Abomasnow outspeeds 8 Speed Blastoise and can OHKO offensive Flygon with Ice Shard after Rocks or Hail damage. While the ability to straight OHKO Flygon is a little shaky without prior damage, it's still heavily in your favor (75% to be precise) and outspeeding Blastoise, Seismitoad, and Jellicent is really important imo since Aboma can actually switch into them (you'd have to give up 48 Speed EVs to get the guaranteed OHKO on Flygon, so you lose out on these bulky Waters) and hit them hard with Giga Drain. Otherwise, it does the same things as Mega Abomasnow does with its mixed set, just with more Speed and less bulk. I can see it being A- rank.
 
~updates~

Bronzong down to B+
Charizard unranked
Tyrantrum down to A+
Smeargle down to B-
Magneton up to B
Glalie (mega) down to A-
Gurdurr down to B+
Musharna up to C
Accelgor up to B
Gallade up to B+
Abomasnow up to A-
Sharpedo up to S

discussion points:

Where to Rank Hoopa
Alomomola up to S or stay in A+
Scrafty down to B/B+ or stay in A-
Sigilyph up to A+ or stay in A
Sneasel up to A or stay in A-
Aerodactyl down to A- or stay in A
Samurott down to B+ or stay in A-
Braviary up to B or stay in B-
Escavalier down to B+ or stay in A-
Rotom down to B- or stay in B
Dugtrio down to B- or stay in B
Slowking down to A or stay in A+
Uxie down to B- or stay in B
Sceptile down to C/C- or stay in C+
Manectric up to A or stay in A-
Tangrowth down to A- or stay in A
Amoonguss up to B+ or stay in B
Registeel up to B- or stay in C+
 
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Alomomola: Yes. 100% yes this fish should be S Rank. It's unarguably the best wish-passer in the tier, with monstrous HP, passable defence, and Regenerator to ensure it's almost never getting knocked out in one attack to pass a wish. Water is a good defensive type, despite some common weaknesses, it has a lot of resists, and it's a massive staple of Balance teams. Alomomola should rise to S rank, as it's the best defensive wish-passer in the tier and one of the few Pokémon that checks Shapredo no matter what it carries.

Uxie: Erm, no. Mesprit is usually better as a rocker, yes, but with Sun sort of coming around again, and with it Growth sweepers, makes Memento extremely useful on sun, or whenever you want to use a boosting sweeper, due to Memento's property of nearly always forcing a switch, quite often it gives you a free turn to get something else in. Uxie's getting much worse, yeah, but I think Memento's enough to keep it in B for now.
 
Alright, have quite a bit of experience with most of these mons, so here goes:

Alomomola: One of the most important defensive Pokemon the tier has. Alomomola is essential for many balance and stall teams to keep the likes of Diancie, Mega Steelix, Bronzong, and Druddigon alive. Add to this the bulky offensive mons like Escavalier, Mega Abomasnow, and Scrafty that it can keep alive to let them play more aggressively. Alomomola has a pretty big weakness to Mega (and normal) Abomasnow, Venusaur, and Virizion, but a lot of the fish's best teammates can at least check these threats and can be kept alive to reliably keep checking these threats over the course of the match. The biggest selling point for Mola is the ability to beat Sharpedo regardless of the set. Combine its ability to keep strong Pokemon defensively and offensively alive along with the fact it can beat Sharpedo rather reliably, and Alomomola deserves S rank imo. It also soft checks just about any physical attacker that can't hit it for super effective damage.

Scrafty: Scrafty I feel is fine where it's at. That being said, I don't think Scrafty should be ranked for its DD set anymore. With LO Accelgor, Aerodactyl, Scarf Durant, and plenty of RU's wallbreakers either being faster than Scrafty after DD or simply having very powerful moves to deter Scrafty from setting up, I don't feel DD is as effective as it was. Personally, I've been using a bulky Choice Band set that acts as an offensive pivot into most physical attackers with Intimidate and decent HP investment. Most notably, it provides an offensive check to stuff like Tyrantrum, Mega Steelix, Flygon, and Rhyperior while posing an immediate threat with STAB Knock Off or High Jump Kick. It's a solid holepuncher and pivot into a lot of physical attackers that works well on plenty of balance and more offensive teams. No way it should drop all the way to B rank. B+ maybe, but I think it's fine in A- rank.

Sigilyph: I think Sigilyph is fine where it's at. It has a pretty bad case of 4MSS with Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, and Dark Pulse all having their uses and the inclusion of Hoopa in the tier makes it all the harder for Sigilyph to pick as Dark Pulse has newfound use for not only Hoopa, but also Meloetta. It's still a very good Pokemon and underrated Special Attacker, but it certainly has issues with 4MSS more than it ever has before which keep it from being quite as reliable as you'd like an A+ rank Pokemon to be imo. That and the rise of Pursuit users due to Hoopa indirectly hurts Sigilyph. It's good in A rank.

Sneasel: Sneasel is a very solid cleaner and revenge killer in this meta. Having access to Ice Shard and Pursuit makes it a fantastic offensive utility Pokemon. Being able to pick off Flygon and Tyrantrum while Pursuit trapping Hoopa, Meloetta, and Sigilyph is really cool for an offensive mon. High Speed and solid STABs in Icicle Crash and Knock Off allows it to clean pretty reliably as well. Dark + Ice isn't easy to wall either, which can let it chip down many defensive Pokemon in the tier. Overall, Sneasel is good enough for A rank due to a great STAB combination and utility between the fastest priority and Pursuit in the tier.

Aerodactyl: Aerodactyl thrives in a more fast-paced metagame which is generally the one we have now. The problem lies in a few things. First of all, Aerodactyl struggles with common defensive Pokemon in the tier. Alomomola stops it no questions asked and Mega Steelix, Rhyperior, and Tangrowth are more than capable of taking a couple of super effective EQs and Aerial Aces respectively. What's worse is that Aerodactyl's decent defensive typing doesn't have a chance to shine in a tier where Fire- and Ground-types commonly have coverage or secondary STABs to crush Aero. And finally, the most common Scarf users in the tier can generally switch into a move or two from Aerodactyl. Tyrantrum, Medicham, and Flygon can all handle Stone Edge with the latter also being immune to EQ. Less common Scarfers like Durant and Meloetta can take a single move on switch-in to revenge kill Aerodactyl or simply wait until after a KO to catch Aero off-guard. I think a drop to A- rank is warranted due to its less-than-stellar matchup against many of the tier's top threats.

Escavalier: Escavalier's ability to handle Mega Abomasnow, Pursuit trap dangerous Psychic-types, and / or wear down Steel-types is really useful in this meta. Pursuit has generally become better than Drill Run due to the influx of Hoopa and Meloetta. As long as Mega Abomasnow is still in the tier and there are powerful Psychic- and Ghost-types to Pursuit traps or Steel-types to weaken, Escavalier has a place in A- rank.

Slowking: Slowking is still a very solid Pokemon, but it suffers from a meta that is quite hostile to it. Hoopa is a powerful wallbreaker that has dropped that simply doesn't care about the prospect of switching into Slowking. Mega Abomasnow and Sharpedo also cause Slowking plenty of problems between Giga Drain and Dark Pulse respectively. While Sharpedo is frail and Mega Abomasnow is very weak to Fire Blast, it's still a nuisance for Slowking to not reliably use its STAB moves when these major threats are present. The rise of Pursuit trappers doesn't really help as it's generally forced to use Colbur Berry to ensure it doesn't instantly drop to Pursuit when it tries to switch to activate Regenerator. Dropping Slowking to A- rank is fine at this point. Still pretty solid, but has more issues than it probably has ever had in RU since BW2 gave it Regenerator.

Tangrowth: Who could have imagined the addition of one Pokemon would change so many things for Tangrowth. But that is what has happened to it with the introduction of Venusaur. Venusaur's Speed, higher special bulk, and STAB Sludge Bomb just makes offensive Tangrowth hard to justify on most teams. It's made worse by the fact that Venusaur has little to no issues switching into Tangrowth and can blow it away with Sludge Bomb. I would say Tangrowth should drop to B+, but I think it still has enough between its Life Orb and AV sets to stay up in the A ranks. AV sets keep decent offensive pressure, gain the ability to check Sharpedo and Manectric pretty reliably due to the heightened special bulk. A- rank seems fine for it. Still pretty good, but hard to use over Venusaur now.

Manectric: A defensive core without Diancie is generally vulnerable to Manectric. Electric + Fire coverage is very potent in a tier where many teams like using Mega Steelix / Bronzong + Alomomola / Blastoise + random Grass-type cores. Manectric's only drawback is its reliance on Hidden Power for coverage. Even then, you can use that to your advantage and save the Hidden Power type until the right target comes in. Life Orb is the best set by far, but it is a Scarf user that can outspeed most other Scarf users with that high Speed tier. Scarf sets work a lot like Rotom-C used to work and Life Orb sets are basically a slightly slower, but better version of Jolteon. I think A rank is warranted due to its strong matchup against most defensive cores and ability to maintain usefulness vs. offense with one set.

Amoonguss: Amoonguss is in a very interesting position. Fighting-type usage is at an all-time low it feels like, which may seem to hurt Amoonguss, but actually helps it. In this meta, Amoonguss is counted on to handle a lot of special attackers, like Sharpedo, Manectric, and Venusaur. With Virizion being the only common Fighting-type (top 25 mons overall) that Amoonguss has a favorable matchup against it can afford to shift some Defense EVs to Special Defense to give it a much better chance to handle super effective / neutral STAB coverage from Shark, Mane, and Saur. B+ rank seems fine for it.
 
Archeops from C --> B-/B/possibly B+
Archeops is a great pokemon because of how it can fit on HO teams. It may seem outclassed by Aerodactyl who has a much higher speed to outspeed mons such as a Jolteon with HP Ice (reaches 393 when running HP Ice) and Dugtrio and it has a faster Taunt, but Aerodactyl has a far lower attack stat and does not get Head Smash/Endeavor, making it a worse offensive/lead mon. Archeops fits on many teams that need support with rocks and Taunt.

EDIT: with what I have said above, I also feel like Aerodactyl should drop to A-/B+. Aerial Ace is very weak and Stone Edge is weak compared to Archeop's Head Smash and Archeop's higher attack. Also, it doesn't even have Endeavor. Its not all that great compared to Archeops and doesn't do good damage to pokemon like Tyrantrum, Steelix-Mega, and Rhyperior, in which Archeops can do with Endeavor. It does have higher speed, but its all around attack and weak moves excluding Stone Edge doesn't make it too good. Many pokemon can switch into this mon.
 
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Archeops from C --> B-/B
Archeops is a great pokemon because of how it can fit on HO teams. It may seem outclassed by Aerodactyl who has a much higher speed to outspeed mons such as a Jolteon with HP Ice (reaches 393 when running HP Ice) and Dugtrio and it has a faster Taunt, but Aerodactyl has a far lower attack stat and does not get Head Smash/Endeavor, making it a worse offensive/lead mon. Archeops fits on many teams that need support with rocks and Taunt.

I don't know if this is a good idea. Archeops is not a horrible lead mon, but it's not quite on par with stuff like Braviary and Rotom. The comment you made on Aerodactyl being weaker doesn't really stack up especially as a lead off mon, since nearly every time it's attacked it's going to be knocked into defeatist range. Furthermore, I just don't think you offer quite enough information to warrant a rise of multiple subranks. Archeops is still a rather niche pick overall, and is generally not as good as some quite solid mons in RU, like the aforementioned braviary and rotom as well as accelgor.
 
Archeops from C --> B-/B/possibly B+
Archeops is a great pokemon because of how it can fit on HO teams. It may seem outclassed by Aerodactyl who has a much higher speed to outspeed mons such as a Jolteon with HP Ice (reaches 393 when running HP Ice) and Dugtrio and it has a faster Taunt, but Aerodactyl has a far lower attack stat and does not get Head Smash/Endeavor, making it a worse offensive/lead mon. Archeops fits on many teams that need support with rocks and Taunt.

EDIT: with what I have said above, I also feel like Aerodactyl should drop to A-/B+. Aerial Ace is very weak and Stone Edge is weak compared to Archeop's Head Smash and Archeop's higher attack. Also, it doesn't even have Endeavor. Its not all that great compared to Archeops and doesn't do good damage to pokemon like Tyrantrum, Steelix-Mega, and Rhyperior, in which Archeops can do with Endeavor. It does have higher speed, but its all around attack and weak moves excluding Stone Edge doesn't make it too good. Many pokemon can switch into this mon.
Archeops's ability renders it too redundant to move any higher.
 
Not gonna post on where to put Hoopa rn because I still want more experience with the mon. He does seem pretty good, and is excellent versus defensive teams, but struggles against offense.

Now on to some of the discussion points:

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A- To B+: Disagree Gonna have to disagree on this one, Escavalier is still pretty good in the meta as Meloetta's becoming more and more common thanks to Hoopa, and Pursuit's a valuable tool for Escav as Hoopa and others are gaining traction. Definitely still an A- mon to me.
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B to B- : Disagree Rotom's still a pretty decent mon even with the introduction of competition in Hoopa. The Electric typing and Levitate lets it resist a good amount of types, and the status spreader set is really spooky for balance teams to handle. Scarf is also a decent option for a revenge killer or a Scarfer that beats out Medicham. Overall Rotom's pretty good right now and despite the usage of Pursuit I think he should stay at B for now.
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A- to B+/B: Neutral As EonX said, the set that should be keeping Scrafty at A- is the Choice Band set, not the Dragon Dance set. The Choice Band set is a really good wallbreaker that's also pretty bulky, letting it check some threats like Tyrantrum thanks to Intimidate. B is definitely too low for Scrafty, B+ is probably reasonable though.
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B to B-: Disagree Duggy is definitely still good enough to hold up B rank. While the usage of mons like Mola trouble him, Duggy's main purpose on a team is to trap things like Manectric and Houndoom for other members. Hoopa + Duggy is also a really good core as Duggy can remove Houndoom and Drapion for Hoopa. While it's essentially useless against walls and is pretty niche, Dugtrio still provides enough utility to a team to be B rank imo.
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A+ to A: Agree This meta is super-hostile to Slowking. The prevelance of Pursuit trappers make Colbur Berry mandatory to avoid getting bopped as you want to activate Regenerator. DarkSpam teams make Slowking essentially useless in these matchups, and while it is a good Fighting and Fire check, the meta's still very bad for King and it should probably drop.
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C+ to C/C-: Neutral Sceptile's a pretty unique mon right now, but that doesn't really mean it's good. It faces competition from Accelgor as a fast mon that threatens offense, and from other Grass-types like Venusaur who can provide more utility via their bulk and typings. Sceptile does have some pros though, such as being able to lure stuff like Fletchinder with Rock Slide or Drapion with Earthquake. Overall I don't mind where it goes, but I would like some more discussion on the mon.
 
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I don't support a Alomamola rise. It's definitely an extremely useful tool on stall teams to be an important blanket check to many threats. However, Stalls biggest problem at the moment, Mega Abomasnow, can run right through it, which is very unfortunate. Now, obviously Alomamola will most likely be paired with a cleric, but it has a horrible vulnerability to toxic provided its teammates cannot take care of it. Furthermore, most burn resistant pokemon, such as Sigilyph, can really do whatever they please against non-knock off alomamola, provided they aren't horribly weak to toxic. My main beef with alomamola, however, is the fact that it is extremely passive and can essentially do nothing but sit there and watch while pokemon such as Lum berry Virizion, Lum berry Drapion, and Sub+Bulk Up Braviary set up all over it. Furthermore, it's not completely impossible to muscle past with brute force from the likes of CB Escavalier and CB Emboar. The new threat of Hoopa should also be taken into account, as a pokemon that can bypass Alomamola's main method of recovery is definitely not good. Following in a similar vein, newcomers Manectric and Venusaur also basically waste Alomamola. This brings up the question of how Alomamola has gotten better since its last move. This is admittedly a cheap question, but things don't seem to have improved for Mola. However, I wouldn't be opposed to a rise if Mega Abomasnow got banned. That's just my stand for now.
 
I do not support a alomamola rise. Mola's role as a support pokemon(which is a wonderful wish user) has been extremely kind to the tier as it can heal up some powerful injured pokemon and can change up the game, and with access to toxic and scald, its no wonder this thing is one of the best support pokemon in the tier and definitely deserves A+.

However this pokemon has flaws. Im not gonna say offensive pressure as thats not what defines an S tier pokemon. But what makes it not s tier material is its matchups and capability against certain pokemon.

With the aurora of grass types and electric types in the tier that just shut down mola including 2 pokemon it cant do anything towards (venusaur and amoonguss), it makes it forcefully to switch out as it cant do anything against these pokemon. The drops were worse for it, as manectric, mega aboma, and venusaur just steam rolled it and mola couldnt do anything about it. And even if you get off a wish and try to switch, it could be limited as the oppenent could predict a switch in and ko the opposing pokemon. Hoopa made this even worse as a wish+protect combo can be destroyed by a hyperspacehole. Toxic can also leave a dent into mola as it can cave free chip damage while its using wish or scald.

Overall Mola is an amazing support pokemon as one of the best wishers in the tier, but with counters and checks alike to stop it from doing its job to its full potential, i dont see it as one of the best yet for S tier So for right now, id say Keep it at A+.
 
OK since the other post got deleted I'll just defend my nomination again. Fletchinder to A+.

I still dont like us not getting even a line as to why it didn't move up but OK I'll go into why I think it should.

Firstly, its checks and counters. They do exist, but it is so laughably easy for Fletchinder to outlast them or simply get around them. People were listing Jolteon and Aerodactyl as offensive checks, when aero takes 70% from +2 acrobatics, meaning the slightest bit of chip damage and it's no longer a check, and both Jolteon and Manectric can only narrowly avoid being OHKOd after stealth rock vs +2 Fletchinder, meaning they can only switch in once. Even without considering +2, they cannot switch in to fletchinder, take rocks + acro, and still do it again as they will just outright die. Same with Aero. Offense has gotten almost no new drops that can help significantly vs it recently and a lot of drops offense has got dislike the existance of Fletchinder. As Fletchinder is a mostly anti-Offense mon, this is most significant to it. But what about the ones it already had? Tyrantrum is the immediate one that comes to mind, which really hates trying to switch in on burns, and can in general be killed and worn down much faster than Fletchinder thanks to no recovery. After tyrantrum, the next mons to look into dealing with it on Offense are Mega Steelix (which doesn't appreciate burns nor necessarily fits on offense all the time) which is blanket checking everything so much it is much easier to break it down than it arguably should be and Water types like seismitoed which also get worn down cause of blanket checking so much stuff and dont have reliable recovery or Clawitzer which cant switch in at all.

Then there's the Balance and Stall matchup, where Fletchinder is always going to be less useful than the offense matchup, and even then the vast majority of its answers have the potential to be outlasted by Fletchinder. Diancie can be lured with Steel Wing but lets ignore that, Diancie counters Fletchinder. Right up until no recovery and being worn down by rocks + burn damage + having to heal bell every time it gets burnt to avoid extra chip damage + being relatively easy to answer for the user of Diancie with the myriad of steels, grounds, waters and grass types that can switch in on it. The only ones that do have reliable recovery are stuff like Slowking, which has a chance to be 2hkod after rocks damage assuming no leftovers, and Alomomomomomola, which dislikes any additional damage it has to take per turn ruining its Protect annoyances and so dislikes burns. Oh and Jellicent has reliable recovery, but it gets 2hkod after rocks, or just ohkod at +2. So even in the matchups it is least useful, it can still be a massive annoyance, spreading burns, racking up chip damage and generally affecting how your opponent will play (easing predictions on stuff like Diancie, cause they need it to not just drop vs Fletchinder, ext). This is also without going into the defensive utility it provides these teams, offering good support in the form of priority to get around a fair number of setup sweepers and grass type attackers like Virision and Venusaur.

And what of its other downsides? Well Stealth Rock is a bitch but it has been placed in A rank despite the Stealth Rock weakness, and it does have reliable recovery, but the reason I dont think this matters as much is the fact that the meta has become a lot more offensive with all the dark types and the introduction with hoopa and subsequent metagame trends ext. In an offensive based meta, fletchinder isn't switching nearly as often as it was in a more defensive meta, which means the Stealth Rock weakness is not as bad now as it was when it was placed in A rank. As for its weakness to status, yeah it dislikes them, but it's immune to burn, freeze never counts, the majority of sleep users dont want to stay in vs MiniTalon, its immune to tspikes (as well as spikes) and T-wave is somewhat mitigated by +1 priority on half of its moves. The one it truly hates is toxic, which yeah it really dislikes, but all sweepers dislike Toxic damage, this is hardly something unique to Fletchinder.

So yeah its ability to outlive its counters and be useful no matter the matchup and its drawbacks being less bad for it now than it used to be means I think it should be moved up to A+.
 
I do not support a alomamola rise. Mola's role as a support pokemon(which is a wonderful wish user) has been extremely kind to the tier as it can heal up some powerful injured pokemon and can change up the game, and with access to toxic and scald, its no wonder this thing is one of the best support pokemon in the tier and definitely deserves A+.

However this pokemon has flaws. Im not gonna say offensive pressure as thats not what defines an S tier pokemon. But what makes it not s tier material is its matchups and capability against certain pokemon.

With the aurora of grass types and electric types in the tier that just shut down mola including 2 pokemon it cant do anything towards (venusaur and amoonguss), it makes it forcefully to switch out as it cant do anything against these pokemon. The drops were worse for it, as manectric, mega aboma, and venusaur just steam rolled it and mola couldnt do anything about it. And even if you get off a wish and try to switch, it could be limited as the oppenent could predict a switch in and ko the opposing pokemon. Hoopa made this even worse as a wish+protect combo can be destroyed by a hyperspacehole. Toxic can also leave a dent into mola as it can cave free chip damage while its using wish or scald.

Overall Mola is an amazing support pokemon as one of the best wishers in the tier, but with counters and checks alike to stop it from doing its job to its full potential, i dont see it as one of the best yet for S tier So for right now, id say Keep it at A+.

Not a single one of Mola's checks and counters can truly stop it from doing its job: passing absurdly fat wishes that hard stop everything but the heaviest offense from actually killing things. Sure it gives free switch-ins to Grasses/Electrics/etc, but those free turns literally do not matter, because Mola's able to consistently heal up whatever it's paired with to beat them. Mola doesn't need to beat 100% of the tier 1v1 to do its job ridiculously well (incidentally, it does beat 85% of the tier 1v1)--it just needs to get free turns, and there are very few ways to prevent this.

Mola is a mon that allows the player who uses it well to completely dictate the pace of the game. You can't wear it down with chip damage because of Regenerator. In the same vein, it never needs to stay in and spend its Wishes on itself because you get practically the same effect by switching out. Hell, you can't even beat it by playing around with aggressive double-switches, since you can't wear it down and it only needs to pass a single Wish to undo many turns of work.

tl;dr Mola isn't amongst the best Pokemon in the tier because it beats most things 1v1 (although it does); it's one of the best because it can let its user control the speed of the gamestate, make it inordinately difficult to break defensive cores, and can't be worn down or broken the way other defensive mons can. I think Mola's a necessary evil in the tier right now, but I would be very happy to see it gone in a future, more balanced meta. For now, move it to S already.
 
I don't have particularly strong opinions on Mola's rank, but I think the claim that it beats 85% of the tier 1v1 is true at all, especially because it hemorrhages momentum the moment someone brings in a halfway decent stallbreaker safely. It's not a switchin to a lot of things it claims to check, as well - Offhand, Delphox and Samurott are mons it thinks it walls, but it absolutely doesn't. I also think it has the unfortunate trait of massively multiplying any weakness your team might have, because it often finds itself giving free turns to very dangerous mons, such as Virizion, Meloetta, and Sigilyph (among others). If hazards get stacked, mola loses it's lefties, or gets toxic'd/burned, it's suddenly in a very bad position as well (though any wall is, really).

I also think other people are exaggerating it's weaknesses. Rotom-C sucks and gets scouted hard, Jolteon, choiced Magneton, and Manectric can't afford to predict the switch in until Alomomola has taken significant amounts of damage (specs tbolt only has a 31% chance to ohko from Jolteon, assuming the 120 hp 252+ spdef spread) and all three hate taking residual damage, both common Virizion sets dislike switching in, though lum SD only sort of minds, and Eeelektross requires Alomomola to have taken quite a bit of damage before coming in. Abomasnow is somewhat vulnerable to all kinds of chip damage, as well, and common Alomomola partners Bronzong and Escavalier love getting healed to full. This really leaves Tangrowth as the only grass type that feels safe reliably switching in throughout the match, and Tangrowth has it's own set of problems. Keep Tangrowth A.
 
because it often finds itself giving free turns to very dangerous mons, such as Virizion, Meloetta, and Sigilyph (among others).

Last two aren't exactly true since Alo has access to Knock Off and under certain circumstances, Alo can actually beat Sigi/Meloetta. When it comes down to it, there's very few Pokemon that can take advantage of Alo for fear of status or Knock Off and of the few that do, many don't stop it from wish passing. For the most part, Grass-types are your best bet, anything else is either incapable of damaging it or doesn't like swapping into some of its moves for fear of getting crippled. I think Alo's advantage is being able to beat nearly everything offensive in the long-term and Wish pass in front of the bulkier things, not so much its match-up vs stuff one-versus-one (though is it still quite good); however, it's not as exploitable as many others would like to imply. Scald + Knock or Scald + Toxic aren't the easiest things to switch into or set up on.
 
the principle problem with mola isn't so much that it gives free turns to all the dangerous mons (it does) but more that it doesn't really wall much concretely any more.

so like, it's not walling anything really dangerous, and you're going to have trouble wishpassing out of (M-Aboma, LO venu, SD Virizion)...why is this thing worthy of S-rank? not denying that the ability to pass fat wishes on things is good but it's just not S.
 
the principle problem with mola isn't so much that it gives free turns to all the dangerous mons (it does) but more that it doesn't really wall much concretely any more.

so like, it's not walling anything really dangerous, and you're going to have trouble wishpassing out of (M-Aboma, LO venu, SD Virizion)...why is this thing worthy of S-rank? not denying that the ability to pass fat wishes on things is good but it's just not S.

Okay. I'm against the Aloma rise, but really. There are many, many dangerous pokemon that this thing shuts down. Medicham, sneasel, scrafty, gallade and a billion other physcial threats are all hard walled by it. I don't think it should rise since it's a bit too passive of a pokemon to be put into S rank. However, what you're saying here is a little much.
 
Okay. I'm against the Aloma rise, but really. There are many, many dangerous pokemon that this thing shuts down. Medicham, sneasel, scrafty, gallade and a billion other physcial threats are all hard walled by it. I don't think it should rise since it's a bit too passive of a pokemon to be put into S rank. However, what you're saying here is a little much.

only sneasel and scarf cham / Gallade; scrafty more or less wins, offensive versions of the fighters rip it to shreds. scarf cham does a bunch too and I bet if anyone still uses scarf gallade (even though it sucks but that's a different story) can just hit you with that Trick

so come on, name some more
 
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