Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

[Lord Death Man]

Roost is very common on Sigilyph (68.371), and knock only really cripples one set (Flame Orb CM, even though other sets would love their items). Knock doesn't do much of anything to Colbur CM Meloetta as well, and you have to guess right between Colbur CM/subCM (and specs) to know if Knock/Toxic are favorable moves, which generally puts Alomomola in a less than stellar position. A wrong guess with puts you in an incredibly bad position as well - and you're likely playing a guessing game for several turns - while a wrong guess for the Meloetta is less bad for it, because it still applies offensive pressure. When dropping a move for Knock, you're also dropping the utility that moves offers, which is itself bad for Alomomola. Without scald, you don't really threaten Venusaur, and so on.

I also think that Alomomola's ability to wall stuff is hugely overrated, as both sets leave massive holes in coverage. And it doesn't wall SD Gallade, which is probably the set you should be considered if you're using it, struggles with Scrafty (and outright loses to the terrible shed skin drain punch sets) and needs low rolls or godlike predict to switch into standard life orb Medicham - all assuming you're physically defensive. At the same time, that Alomomola has a chance to sort of beat 2/3 of these sets, despite them being massively powerful wallbreakers, says a lot. But you should just be using wish and getting out of there against any of those three, and many others, which isn't hard walling at all.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

only sneasel and scarf cham / Gallade; scrafty more or less wins, offensive versions of the fighters rip it to shreds. scarf cham does a bunch too and I bet if anyone still uses scarf gallade (even though it sucks but that's a different story) can just hit you with that Trick

so come on, name some more

I was mostly referencing CB scrafty when I was talking about scrafty, but yeah, I see your point. However, I feel that you being quite hostile unjustly. You seem to have forgotten that I'm against this thing rising.

 

[phantom]

Roost is very common on Sigilyph (68.371), and knock only really cripples one set (Flame Orb CM, even though other sets would love their items). Knock doesn't do much of anything to Colbur CM Meloetta as well, and you have to guess right between Colbur CM/subCM (and specs) to know if Knock/Toxic are favorable moves, which generally puts Alomomola in a less than stellar position. A wrong guess with puts you in an incredibly bad position as well - and you're likely playing a guessing game for several turns - while a wrong guess for the Meloetta is less bad for it, because it still applies offensive pressure. When dropping a move for Knock, you're also dropping the utility that moves offers, which is itself bad for Alomomola. Without scald, you don't really threaten Venusaur, and so on.

Your contention was that Alomomola "often gives free turns"; it does not. The point wasn't to state that it always beats these Pokemon, but rather that it's capable of doing so under certain conditions; therefore, implying that Meloetta and Sigilyph gain free turns from it isn't always true. Sigilyph has to Roost every other turn as Alo clicks Knock Off. On the initial hit, it can do 50%, while an itemless Sigilyph without Calm Mind won't be winning in the long haul. Even Calm Mind variants don't want to lose their item. Flame Orb is crippled immediately while Offensive CM sets become much easier to switch into and lowers its immediate threat level as a result. Meloetta on the flip side, is crippled by Toxic on the switch, preventing it from setting up without going down quickly and putting Choice Specs sets on a timer. You can usually tell which Meloetta set is it after it takes Stealth Rock damage (that's another exaggeration about having to "guess which set" because all you need to know is if its SubCM or not), if it's Leftovers, you can deduce a SubCM set, anything else and Alo can get a Toxic on. I'm neutral on Alo rising, but people need to stop exaggerating how easy it is to gain free turns from it because it really isn't.

 

[Scienceandreligion]

I'm not entirely convinced that Alomomola needs to take the roll of blanket hard walling the majority of physical threats in the tier to be justified of the S Rank status. Alomomola's bulk is by no means impenetrable, as evidenced by the fact that it does indeed have a relatively poor match up with a number of the fighting type Pokemon in the tier, but it's also significant enough that it can withstand a hit if need be an recover by sheer merit of switching or wishing. But that to me isn't what could propel Alomomola into rising into S Rank - rather, its the fact that it's an exceedingly low risk Pokemon in the following ways:

1. It does wall significantly dangerous threats in such a way that it can provide repeated support against what it does cover and end up relatively unscathed by merit of Regenerator. This makes it incredibly low risk to use compared to other walls in the tier who, even if they have reliable recovery, must use up their turn to heal and in turn provide a greater opportunity for the opponent to either a. switch in a direct threat that can harm the other team or b. forgo healing to directly address that threat but then provide greater opportunity for the walled Pokemon to break through. Alomomola has the option to opt to heal but also does not have to due to the leeway provided by Regenerator. And, as Spirit said, when it opts not to heal it still provides useful functions in Knock Off, Scald for the burn and Toxic, which whilst it can't run all of them simultaneously they do serve distinct useful functions against many of the threats. I personally see Knocking Off a Life Orb, Leftovers or an item other than say a Focus Sash where it's literately useless to be an incredibly useful function for a balance or stall team, as even if say a Sigilyph switches in and remains a presence the Pokemon that handles Sigilyph has a sustained benefit for the rest of the match. Status is very obviously useful, nobody argues with that, it in some way inhibits a function of the opposing Pokemon. It's worth noting Alomomola is primarily useful on teams of which rely on being able to handle these threats multiple times over the course of the game - anything that increases the number of times a threat either needs to be handled or can be handled directly serves the purpose of the playstyle.

2. Alomomola has access to Wish, which means that any time there is a weakened Pokemon on it's team it limits the opponent's options such that they must prioritize preventing the Wish from going through. Wish is very clearly useful in healing Pokemon that lack their own recovery, but it also serves the function of pressuring the opposing team that relies on the evisceration of these threats into adhering to strict patterns (ie, forcing in a Virizion every time as to pressure both Alomomola and the weakening Mega-Steelix (presumably within Virizion's Close Combat range)). Any time you generate a pattern in the opponent, you gain a subtle advantage because they must adhere to your pattern or risk a lot whereas you don't need to adhere to the pattern (Alomomola doesn't need to wish, it could toxic the incoming Virizion). This is not always relevant, but it's an extra factor aside from just 'Wish heals things that can't heal themselves' to consider. I figured it was worth mentioning as a potential strength of Alomomola, as it's particularly good at forcing these patterns due to it's general bulk yielding a need to break through it and the receiver quite effectively. Also, let's not forget Alomomola is a pretty decent Pokemon against opposing balance/stall due to the fact that they will have less capable of breaking through bulky Pokemon and thus preventing these wishes than offense will simply due to the goals of the playstyle (more of an emphasis on winning slowly by finding the weak point and wearing it down over time than aiming for direct pressure via a threat). Also, even if you switch in a dangerous threat, let's not forget that a passed wish can still make the incoming check/counter better at dealing with the threat.

3. Alomomola by repeatedly switching in to a threat with less risk of taking residual damage over time due to Regenerator slows down the pace of the game and can help readjust that pace in the favor of the playstyle. To explain this, let's set up a hypothetical situation. You have out Hoopa, You know I'd like to pursuit your Hoopa, so I'd send in my full health Specially Defensive Drapion. You could Focus Blast, but to be safer you predict this and send in a Stealth Rock setter Rhyperior. Hypothetically let's say you have rocks up, so you use earthquake, stone edge/rock blast, run the random ice punch to predict a Flygon (not recommended for serious games), perhaps Toxic, etc. Regardless of your options, I can send in my Physically Defensive Alomomola and render all options aside from Toxic of minimal effect, and whilst Toxic is certainly helpful it only weakens Alomomola once, so if this were to happen again you'd very literally not have any options. Whilst the Toxic is nice, the fact that Alomomola can effectively scrub clean mistakes in the manner that is unique to Regenerator Pokemon is pretty fantastic, and it's why Regenerator is such a good ability in RU.

4. Alomomola provides massive support in the team builder in that it can compress all of these useful roles into on Pokemon as well as provide the aforementioned general bulk and the critical water typing. It really is one of the best role compression Pokemon in RU right now, it can fill all of these slots at least moderately well (and some excellently). Whilst it may not directly counter everything and has distinctly important weaknesses to balance breakers like Sigilyph, the sheer density of rolls it does fill could concievably be argued to outwiegh the cons from the perspective of what it does provide for the overall health of the team.

I definitely think the weaknesses to Pokemon like Sigilyph, Virizion, Meloetta, Venasaur, M-Abomasnow etc. that do threaten balance is a significant factor. I also think that the choice between physically defensive and specially defensive yields a situation in which Alomomola often seems better on paper than in practice due to the fact that it must specialize. Not to mention it has 4MSS. I'd probably keep it A+ were it up to me due to it's rather significant exploitable weaknesses in the metagame. But I don't think the argument for S rank is centered around it's ability to simply 'wall dangerous attackers', nor is it to handle the threats of offense (certainly some, but not all). And I don't think it's entirely passive, because a momentum shift is a pretty big boon and whilst some Pokemon are exceptions between Knock Off-ing, Wishing or statusing Alomomola can still do something meaningful against many of these Pokemon. I think the fact that it gives a lot of legroom for balance to work with and opens up teambuilding slots compared to the alternatives in conjunction with just 'pretty good defense' is why it's up for S Rank, and I see a lot of people arguing against the 'bulk' and that it's 'strictly passive' when more is under the hood that is relevant than stopping X number of relevant attackers or 'only' removing a item/statusing. I think the fact that regardless of it's move can still provide opportunities for dangerous balance breakers is the most critical argument against S rank even if the turn isn't 'free' in the strictest sense.

 

[phantom]

Mega Abomasnow and Sharpedo are removed. The tier will shift quite a bit as a result and the VR is due for an overhaul anyhow. So in about a week time, I'll post an updated one that will be worked on with the RU council. Stay tuned.

 

[phantom]

Here are the changes that were worked on by the RU council:

updates:

Tyrantrum up to S
Durant up to S
Scrafty down to B+
Hoopa added to A
Sigilyph up to A+
Absol down to A-
Medicham up to A
Mega Camerupt up to A
Abomasnow up to A
Sneasel up to A
Spiritomb up to A
Slowking down to A
Blastoise down to A-
Delphox up to A-
Jellicent up to A-
Rhyperior down to A-
Aerodactyl down to B+
Qwilfish down to A-
Sawk up to A-
Drapion down to A-
Aromatisse down to B+
Rotom up to B+
Amoonguss up to B+
Braviary up to B
Mesprit down to B
Samurott down to B
Druddigon down to B
Malamar up to B
Dugtrio down to B-
Garbodor up to B-
Musharna up to B-
Registeel up to B-
Hitmontop down to C+
Uxie down to C+
Mr. Mime added to C
Quagsire down to C+
Archeops down to C
Xatu down to C
Mega Glalie up to A
Tangrowth down to A-
Escavalier down to B+
Poliwrath down to B
Kabutops down to C
Gourgeist-XL down to C
Gastrodon down to C-
Lanturn down to C-
Ferroseed down to C
Mega Banette down to C-
Steelix down to C-

re: Fletchinder. Fletchinder is not moving up to A+ due to the significant support it requires (Defog/Spin), but also because many of its checks are so widespread. It's apparent great matchup vs offense is made less significant due to the fact that purely offensive teams struggle to be very successful in this metagame. The best teams in the tier can handle Fletchinder by default. Even though it is able to put in work in a lot of matches it's in, the fact that requires Defog/Rapid Spin support and the fact that its checks and counters are so easy to put onto a team make it not A+ worthy

This thread is going to have some new rules in place that must be followed:

-Don't derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't contribute to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down.

-If you want to nominate something to be ranked that's not on the list, you must have 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays

-If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs

As a note, quite a few unviable/extremely niche Pokemon were unranked. Even the C rank now has a certain set of standards. If the Pokemon isn't something that you're going to use on a serious team, then it's not good enough to go into C.

That is all.

 

[tko]

I don't think Hoopa deserves A rank. I have been using it for a good while now and, even with Sharpedo's banning, it still hasn't gotten much better. Offense is still just as good and pressures Hoopa because of its mediocre speed tier. While this can seem to be fixed with a somewhat used set with scarf (at least I faced scythe with it), it dosen't hit as hard as it wishes and still under-speeds common scarfers (tyrant, durant). Balance has some trouble with Hoopa, but it is not like an unbearable threat, it is pretty manageable. Pursuit trapping being pretty common means Hoopa generally has a hard time, especially with things like Spiritomb being really hot atm. Stall is the style where Hoopa has the most fun, as is clear by the Special Attack Hoopa boasts, but even with that, stall is not doing too well (a bit better after aboma banning!!), and is not common at all. A is too high for Hoopa, but A- seems a bit better for it.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Mr. Mime added to C
you forgot to add this.

Good job cleaning this up this looks a lot better (mainly cuz Sawk moves up)

have few nomination of course

B- ---> C+
I can't really see this thing being in the same rank as Weezing. I know that they do play different roles but are awfully similar but I feel in most scenarios, Weezing is the better option. It still provide Toxic Spikes, removes one of its major weaknesses (something that hinders Garbodor since Ground is such a common type), and it has better defense (which is what some poisons do.) It also isn't helping that best hazard remover in the tier makes Garbodor want to hide in its closet. Not to mention Weezing also has the tool to burn physical Pokemon which makes it job easier. Suicide leads are also generally outclassed by Qwilfish and Omastar which can Taunt slower leads, pressure MLix and Rhyperior, and the latter can even hit Flygon. I can't put this on the same level as Weezing.

B ---> B+
I originally agreed with Samurott dropping but I think this went a little bit too far. Water coverage is really good right now and having a physical sweeper WITH PRIORITY can be extremely good. Mega Steelix is bound to rise in usage again since Sharpedo is gone and this mon can effectively help to break it. Rock-types and even Fire-types are having some light shed on them because of this which makes having Aqua Jet a huge deal. Mesprit which is getting more use thanks to Healing Wish and Stealth Rock is more common. Alomomola is more common with the pairing of MLix is Set up food. While Samurott is not deserving of A- atm it isn't that bad to drop down 2 ranks. Sharpedo leaving was helpful for it but it was in need of a drop anyway.

B --> B-/C+
Across my time teambuilding, I have not come across a single situation where I needed to use Aggron over Mega Steelix, Durant or Tyrantrum. This can't be easilly slapped onto teams like other Pokemon and its more of an "effective Pokemon when built around." Which is what some of the C rank pokemon are (Klinklang and Barbaracle for example. Simple reasoning I used for Mawile to rise can be used to rise or drop other mons as well.

 

[Miyami~~]

Well, with the suspect, It's good to see Tyrantrum where it belongs.

anyways, nom time:

Smeargle: B- --> C+
Smeargle has exactly one job: Sicky Web! Smeargle is the only Sticky Web user in the tier, which means it has no competition for its role on a team. The problem is, Sticky Webs are fairly dysfuntional at the minute, making Smeargle's niche extremely rare. On top of that, Smeargle's extremely low stats means that it needs a Focus Sash to take hits at all, so if you have entry hazards up or just hit it twice, you lose your hazard setter. Do you really want to take up a slot on something that does exactly 1 thing and is only used because it's the only thing that can perform that role? Not to mention Spore opens up dangerous switch-ins for Grass Types and Dark Void isn't the most reliable thing.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Well, with the suspect, It's good to see Tyrantrum where it belongs.

anyways, nom time:

Smeargle: B- --> C+
Smeargle has exactly one job: Sicky Web! Smeargle is the only Sticky Web user in the tier, which means it has no competition for its role on a team. The problem is, Sticky Webs are fairly dysfuntional at the minute, making Smeargle's niche extremely rare. On top of that, Smeargle's extremely low stats means that it needs a Focus Sash to take hits at all, so if you have entry hazards up or just hit it twice, you lose your hazard setter. Do you really want to take up a slot on something that does exactly 1 thing and is only used because it's the only thing that can perform that role? Not to mention Spore opens up dangerous switch-ins for Grass Types and Dark Void isn't the most reliable thing.

I actually have to disagree with this. Smeargle on its own only functions as a Sticky Web setter but being able to do that role with no actual competition for its role is something extremely important towards its placement. But having the ability to spam powerful Wallbreakers without hardly any consent is overwhelming. Hazard control can be difficult to pull off when you Rapid Spinners don't have any opportunity to spin and Flygon gets destroyed by Mega Glalie. Point is Sticky Webs is a powerful strategy that can be too overwhelming at times with that much pressure to be handled without extra care. Sure Sticky Webs isn't as good against other playstyles like Stall and Trick Room but those aren't as common as they are less functional in this meta. Sticky Web is a lot more viable and easier to play the others just mentioned.

 

[EonX]

Really cool to see Mega Camerupt moving up. Literally nobody seems prepared to face that thing. Couple of things I'm going to comment on though:

Garbodor: This is fine in B-. You're not using it as a suicide lead, but rather a Spiker that can reliably check Venusaur. Balance likes having a hazard user that can switch into a Leaf Storm or two (252 / 40+ can do this, even if it's Modest Venusaur) and a STAB to keep it from using Synthesis reliably. It also happens to check Tangrowth as well as soft check some Fighting-types. The big thing is that it can generally run Spikes and Toxic Spikes whereas Qwilfish cannot. Weezing is a much better Fighting check, but it is not going to take Leaf Storms from Venusaur and Tangrowth that well, which is one of the big reasons you'd use Garbodor. Aftermath is also a pretty neat ability that can wear down random physical attackers that give your team problems. Stripping them of 25% of their HP (possibly more if you use Rocky Helmet) can be quite handy when combined with Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

Hoopa: Kinda agreeing that A is too high. While Hoopa is definitely a solid Pokemon, that typing, Speed tier, and low Defense really gives it issues. Any Pursuit user that's remotely common limits it to a maximum of one KO a match and forces it to be careful with its STABs. It doesn't help that Spiritomb, Houndoom, and Escavalier are perfectly decent Pokemon on most teams. There are honestly very few times I want to use Hoopa due to how much I have to defend against Pursuit users and physical attackers in general. I think A- rank is better suited for Hoopa.

Samurott: Samurott is honestly in a weird position. Special sets did get a little better with Sharpedo's departure, but Samurott's biggest issue is that Venusaur makes it very difficult to sweep with the SD set considering it commonly uses Synthesis and / or Giga Drain to stay healthy, even if Samurott catches it with Megahorn on the switch to try and wear it down for later. It's also faster than Samurott which hurts the otter quite a bit. It's still a decent mon, but requires a bit more support than it used to before Venusaur came to the tier. I think it's fine in B rank.

Smeargle: Sticky Web is honestly a very challenging playstyle to use as long as Flygon remains a common force in the tier. It outspeeds most wallbreakers, can dent them, has Defog, and Levitate lets it avoid Sticky Web altogether. Venusaur being a common force in the tier also means it's quite difficult for Smeargle to use Spore as it wants to. While it easily is the best Sticky Web user due to being able to also use Stealth Rock, Sticky Web itself is not an easy playstyle to use currently. A drop to C+ rank is fine. No other Sticky Web user is ranked (nor should they be)

 

[tmacbalanced]

B ---> B+
I originally agreed with Samurott dropping but I think this went a little bit too far. Water coverage is really good right now and having a physical sweeper WITH PRIORITY can be extremely good. Mega Steelix is bound to rise in usage again since Sharpedo is gone and this mon can effectively help to break it. Rock-types and even Fire-types are having some light shed on them because of this which makes having Aqua Jet a huge deal. Mesprit which is getting more use thanks to Healing Wish and Stealth Rock is more common. Alomomola is more common with the pairing of MLix is Set up food. While Samurott is not deserving of A- atm it isn't that bad to drop down 2 ranks. Sharpedo leaving was helpful for it but it was in need of a drop anyway.

In my opinion, Samurott does seem pretty good in B rank. B rank isn't that bad, in fact, it's a good rank. I've used Samurott and tried other people's Samurott teams too. I've noticed that it suffers from 4MSS because it wants megahorn for pokemon like tangrowth but it also wants knock off for pokemon like jellicent when it comes to SD sweeping. Sometimes though, it has a tough time SD sweeping due to so many hard hitting fast pokemon in this tier as well as pokemon that resist it's moves or just don't care about aqua jet like virizion and venasuar. It's an awesome pokemon though considering the fact that it can use either special or physical sets. And the special set is pretty good as it has less counters and 4MSS, it can be pretty good with taunt too.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Spiritomb from A to A-

I don't think that spiritomb's role as a trapper is quite enough to warrant and A ranking. It definitely traps psychics very well, but it struggles to do much else in many matchups, besides maybe spreading a few burns. Even some the the psychics it traps like Meloetta and Sigilyph have ways around it, usually with dazzling gleam or, in meloetta's case, the colbur berry. It's sometimes left as a complete deadweight or even as setup bait against quite a few pokemon that are commonly paired with psychics such as Lum Virizion, Emboar, and Houndoom. It oftentimes fails to do anything against stall due to Diance being just about everywhere, keeping it from spreading burns as easily as it would like. Increased usage of Mega Camerupt also hurts it, as it can come in and immediately start threatening spiritomb's team, which is especially unfortunate considering how few switchins Mega Camerupt allows. Spiritiomb is still very solid, but in my opinion it's just a bit too specialized to secure a place above mons like Blastoise and Absol.

 

[Meru]

Spiritomb from A to A-

I don't think that spiritomb's role as a trapper is quite enough to warrant and A ranking. It definitely traps psychics very well, but it struggles to do much else in many matchups, besides maybe spreading a few burns. Even some the the psychics it traps like Meloetta and Sigilyph have ways around it, usually with dazzling gleam or, in meloetta's case, the colbur berry. It's sometimes left as a complete deadweight or even as setup bait against quite a few pokemon that are commonly paired with psychics such as Lum Virizion, Emboar, and Houndoom. It oftentimes fails to do anything against stall due to Diance being just about everywhere, keeping it from spreading burns as easily as it would like. Increased usage of Mega Camerupt also hurts it, as it can come in and immediately start threatening spiritomb's team, which is especially unfortunate considering how few switchins Mega Camerupt allows. Spiritiomb is still very solid, but in my opinion it's just a bit too specialized to secure a place above mons like Blastoise and Absol.

Spiritomb isn't meant to always switch directly into Psychic-types, but it vastly hinders them from doing their job of either spamming strong attacks or securing Calm Mind win conditions. Spiritomb's strength comes from its trapping skills, so the fact that it has "counters" doesn't even matter in regards to its ranking. Diancie is just as good of a teammate for Spiritomb as it is a counter, since Diancie can block a lot of the Fire-types you just listed. Being able to set up conditions to eliminate Meloetta, Hoopa, Sigilyph, and Medicham are all really strong support options for a team. Out of all of those, I'd say Hoopa is the hardest to trap since it's the only one that can reliably 2HKO you with its own STAB, so you could make an argument that Hoopa is harder to trap that prevents Spiritomb from doing its job but saying that it has counters is hardly a counterpoint.

I think it could go to A- though. Both ranks seem possible to me.

 

[aurora]

Aerodactyl should probably drop further to B. Hyper offence sucks at the moment and you will not be using suicide lead Aero on any other archetype besides HO. The problem with suicide lead Aero is that it is, unlike other suicide leads, VERY easily invalidated by the best hazard removers in the tier. While Glalie can Freeze Dry Blastoise and Ice Shard Flygon and fucking suicide lead Qwilfish (which is a complete waste of a useful defensive pivot, but I digress) can threaten Hitmontop with Scald burns, Aero can... Taunt Flygon then lose to any of its attacking moves while doing poor damage with Wing Attack (lel), get Intimidated and CCed by Hitmontop, or get Scalded by Blastoise. Good hazard setter.

LO Aerodactyl also sucks thanks to its lack of good Flying STAB, reliance on an inaccurate STAB move in the form of Stone Edge, and average base 105 Attack, which leaves it unable to break through anything and vulnerable to getting smashed by physically defensive Pokemon... which is not ideal for a physical attacker. Its average defensive typing, frailty and SR weakness leaves it worn down extremely quickly, and the fact it must run a Jolly nature leaves it even more underpowered. It does not even get the luxury of Focus Sash to take a hit and retaliate in some way. I would rather use Fletchinder as a Flying-type sweeper or Tyrantrum as a Rock-type as both are oodles more useful than Aerodactyl.

 

[freezai]

I disagree that Aerodactyl should drop. Aerodactyl should not be used as a wallbreaker and judging it as such will obviously leave a lot to be desired. What makes Aerodactyl good is that it can check a lot of offensive threats through its speed and power. 105 with a LO is not bad by any means, I mean of course it can't break stuff like Alomamola but it doesn't need to. Its used to check offensive teams and 105 gets the job done. It has a lot of other utility moves like Pursuit and Taunt which are valuable. Its speed and ability to revenge kill stuff is what makes it good, not its power.

 

[Sweep]

Aerodactyl is really easy to switch into though, even for offensive teams. Practically no one runs pure HO due to it being a suboptimal playstyle in this metagame, so even offensively inclined teams will have a solid Aero check like offensive Seismitoed, Scarf Durant, Blastoise, Mega Steelix, Flygon, or what have you. Qwilfish is a decent check too unless it switches directly into Earthquake, and Qwilfish is really good in this metagame for offense. Also, with that nasty SR weakness, exploitable typing and mediocre bulk, Aerodactyl won't get too many opportunities to come in. LO Aerodactyl actually hits less hard than Choice Scarf users such as Emboar and Durant, and although Aerodactyl can switch moves, it's still easier for offense to deal with mid to late game due to the high number of Pokemon that can beat Aerodactyl 1-1. Tl;dr I don't think Aerodactyl performs particularly great vs. offense, although revenging stuff like Virizion and Fletchinder is cool, and it is pretty mediocre against other playstyles. I support a drop to B.

I also feel Aggron could stand to drop to B-. Its Choice Band set is strong but there are really good Rock resists in their tier and Aggron struggles mightily vs. offensive teams due to its shit typing and Speed. It's outclassed by Tyrantrum (obviously, I know no one is arguing otherwise) and I've found that pairing them together opens up some pretty big team holes that are hard to cover with your other four teamslots. It's a pretty underwhelming wallbreaker in a tier with a lot of good ones IMO.

 

[MrAldo]

I disagree completely with aerodactyl dropping to B+. Why are we bringing the lead focus sash set, like at all? This set is complete ass and absolutely outshined by archeops Im not even gonna bother with the set since by the merits of that set aerodactyl would be C. Anyways, LO aerodactyl is actually pretty decent since it is a really malleable pokemon thats also really easy to pave a sweep with. With spikes support many of its checks get worn down pretty easily and thanks to this it can apply pressure to bulky teams. Lack of a good flying STAB is kind of a curse but also quite the blessing since this means aerodactyl gets to use moves like Ice Fang which are valuable to nullify flygon as a check and still hit virizion for good damage, durant hates fire blast or fire fang variants, could even run moves like aqua tail, etc. I know Im bringing spikes support and pretty team dependant coverage but thats why aerodactyl is on B+ rank in the first place. This mon is far more easy to fit on teams than anything in B. Having a flying resist and fire resist that is faster than scarf emboar and isnt choice locked is really sweet, and isnt exactly a weakling either.

Spiritomb to stay on A: I dont know man, I think spiritomb deserves A rank in every way since it is one oif the best catch-all psychic types in the metagame atm. Sheer bulk and great power with black glasses or banded means isnt as exploitable as you would think it is. Black Glasses foul play puts a dent on anything that attempts to setup, and let it stop you from being virizion and emboar bait, etc. Taunt isnt particularly useful nowadays so foul play becomes a much more appealing option. It checking fighting types is also a plus, providing invaluable role compression as well. Solid A mon tbh.

One of my own

Tangrowth up to A: This mon is so much better nowadays thanks to sharpedo leaving the building, meaning it doesnt have to run AV to not just drop to it. With this being said, being able to run LO again is huge since it can be again to one scary wallbreaker it once was. The most appealing aspect of tangrowth over the most clear competition as a grass type wallbreaker in venusaur is the ground resist and amazing physical bulk compared to the likes of abomasnow. Not just dropping to mega steelix and being able to switch into it relatively well is simply amazing, something venusaur cant really do, same with abomasnow. Also, the venusaur matchup isnt even that bad since LO hp fire would do a pretty hefty amount of damage, forcing it to recover in plenty of scenarios so you can bring your sigilyph or something that could beat venusaur, etc. It is much better with sharpedo gone as said, giving it the freedom to run much more sets and thanks to its speed tier it can run modest 100% of the time giving it an edge of power over venusaur. Is one of the grass types that can outlast alomomola as well thanks to it having regenerator so burn damage can be a bit negligible (although still pretty annoying). So yeah, tangrowth to A imo.

 

[EonX]

Aerodactyl: Aerodactyl's problem is not itself if I'm being completely honest. Base 130 Speed is amazing and a 100 BP STAB off of base 105 Attack is something quite a few Pokemon wish they could have. The problem lies in Tyrantrum. Teams are forced to run sturdy Rock resists because of the presence of Tyrantrum, which automatically hinders Aerodactyl. Base 130 Speed is great, but falls behind the best Scarfers in the tier, all of which can OHKO it pretty easily. This wouldn't be so bad if they couldn't switch into its STAB move in dire situations, but they can. And yes, I'm talking about Tyrantrum, Durant, and Medicham. While these are bad setbacks, it actually has pretty ok coverage with EdgeQuake, Fire Blast, and Aerial Ace to clean teams with. It is not going to break teams and anyone using the suicide lead set should be ashamed of themselves for using it over Archeops and even Aggron, both of which can often net a KO or at least suicide themselves via Head Smash to prevent a spin or Defog early-game. For now, I think it should stay in B+ rank.

Spiritomb: Spiritomb is probably one of the best offensive switch ins for the many common Fighting- and Psychic-types in the tier. Even if it can't switch in directly due to fear of a coverage move, the fact that it inhibits otherwise powerful wallbreakers like Meloetta and Hitmonlee from using their STAB moves reliably can be a huge plus. As MrAldo mentioned, Foul Play is a much more viable option than it used to be, though I still like Taunt's ability to completely shutdown CM Slowking (arguably its best set) Regardless, the ability to viably run Foul Play is a huge boon for Spiritomb since it can punish the likes of Fletchinder, Virizion, and Gallade for trying to set up on it. It's good enough to stay in A rank atm due to the high level threats it checks and the utility it can provide to teams outside of checking major threats.

Aggron: Oh hey, a Rock-type that isn't named Tyrantrum. Probably suffers from that. Oh look, it does. Snarky comments aside, Aggron suffers pretty badly from Tyrantrum being around. You're really only going to want to use Aggron when you need your Head Smasher to resist Fairy and have extra resistance to Flying and Normal. Otherwise, Tyrantrum is vastly superior in every way. Yes, even with using a Choice Band due to more Speed and power. Mega Steelix, defensive Seismitoad, Hitmontop, and Poliwrath also being pretty common also doesn't help Aggron's cause in the slightest. Drop to B- rank.

Tangrowth: I can see the pros of Tangrowth. Regenerator, physical bulk, Ground resistance. All that is really good. It's also able to use AV outside of LO which gives it some versatility. My problem is not that it can't compete with Venusaur for a teamslot as it most certainly can and has very obvious advantages over Venusaur. My problem is what is it realistically going to do against Venusaur. LO sets have to sacrifice Sleep Powder for HP Fire or Knock Off to keep from being complete switch in bait for Venusaur, which takes away from the twofold problem that often comes with facing LO Tangrowth; that being "what if it predicts my switch in and my switch in is put to sleep?". AV can very easily run Knock Off to take away a lot of Venusaur's power (non-LO Leaf Storm is MUCH easier to take) but it can't threaten to break through teams nearly as easily as the Life Orb set. I'm really on the fence on this one and tbh, it can go either way. But I did want to make a point as to why I feel Tangrowth is where it's at now. Is that enough to keep it at A- or not? I'm not really sure yet.

 

[tehy]

I'll keep it short because mobile

Venusaur>>>tangrowth as a wallbreaker. Faster helps vs.offense, secondary stab is great, it bodies fairies hard and 1v1s amoonguss. I will never use tangrowth so long as venu is in the tier.

LO growth can and should run knock anyhow js.

edit:

No, it's absolutely the opposite of pointless because they both function as a grass-type stallbreaker that can fit on defensive teams, and venusaur is so so so much better at that.

also doesn't my mans alomo > aero pretty easily? shouts go out too to seismitoad and lix

 

[Lord Death Man]

Directly comparing Venusaur to Tangrowth is sort of pointless; Tang has regen, focus blast, and pivots into entirely different things from Venusaur. I don't think I've ever considered them for the same teamslot because they're just not very similar defensively, and if I am it's because the team went so far off the rails in terms of synergy that I would obviously pick Venusaur because I've given up on handling anything defensively. Unless I'm missing something major; their defensive spreads are just too different to seriously consider as direct rivals for a teamslot, though obviously you wouldn't use them together.

A- is fine for it though, imo.

I also think B is fine for Aero but I do want to mention just how hard it is to actually counter without moving into weird-niche-mons-you'd-never-see-on-offense territory. Aqua Tail is not a niche option at all and I feel is arguably better than EQ on mon teams right now, offensive Flygon ie the Flygon you see on a ton of offensive teams is the shakiest switch in ever, Double Edge is a legitimate option over Aerial Ace if you think you have Virizion covered because it hits the majority of stuff harder (only real exception are Durant, who is terrified to come in just in general, Poli, who isn't RU, and then Top and Gurdurr wall you anyway). It's not the best mon but it does have a serious place on some offense teams and can be easily tailored to your team.

 

[BelmontGabriel]

Gallade B+ -> A-

One of many good Fighting types in RU. Although it loses most of the times when being compared with the superior Medicham; Gallade is equally when not even better than Sawk r8 now because of its SD Lum set. Unlike Sawk Gallade has the option (and the bulk) to boost himself when faced with bulkier Pokemon like Alomomola or Jellicent and not fearing the burn when running Lum Berry.
Also Gallades Base 80 Speed (with max + speed investment) allows it to Speedtie with Timid Venusaur (or outspeed HP Fire variants) and kill it with Zen-Headbutt and when facing Hoopa it doesn't generate free turns like Sawk when being locked into CC or being outspeed and KOed with Focus Blast like Scrafty. Also with it's Lum Berry intact it has a nice niche of being able to beat the likes of lead smeargle and Amoongus that try and put it to sleep.

It doesn't have an useful ability like the other Fighting Types but its decent Speed tier combined with its Special bulk and Moves allow it to be on par with Sawk and better than Scrafty resulting in a rise to A-.

 

[Ramy]

Gallade B+ -> A-

One of many good Fighting types in RU. Although it loses most of the times when being compared with the superior Medicham; Gallade is equally when not even better than Sawk r8 now because of its SD Lum set. Unlike Sawk Gallade has the option (and the bulk) to boost himself when faced with bulkier Pokemon like Alomomola or Jellicent and not fearing the burn when running Lum Berry.
Also Gallades Base 80 Speed (with max + speed investment) allows it to Speedtie with Timid Venusaur (or outspeed HP Fire variants) and kill it with Zen-Headbutt and when facing Hoopa it doesn't generate free turns like Sawk when being locked into CC or being outspeed and KOed with Focus Blast like Scrafty. Also with it's Lum Berry intact it has a nice niche of being able to beat the likes of lead smeargle and Amoongus that try and put it to sleep.

It doesn't have an useful ability like the other Fighting Types but its decent Speed tier combined with its Special bulk and Moves allow it to be on par with Sawk and better than Scrafty resulting in a rise to A-.

I have to disagree on the rise. Gallade is severely outclassed by all the other fighting types due to their better speed and attack power. Gallade cant really do its role as well without setting up and with pokemon like durant, fletchinder, flygon, and tyrantrum easily revenge killing it, it always has to switch out meaning losing that +2 it had for effectively doing its role, and poor defenses doesnt help its lackful speed either.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

I have to disagree on the rise. Gallade is severely outclassed by all the other fighting types due to their better speed and attack power. Gallade cant really do its role as well without setting up and with pokemon like durant, fletchinder, flygon, and tyrantrum easily revenge killing it, it always has to switch out meaning losing that +2 it had for effectively doing its role, and poor defenses doesnt help its lackful speed either.

This is a little excessive but I feel that there is no chance that gallade is better than sawk. Gallade's niche over Medicham is pretty slight. Yes, it can set up to break down stall. However, many of the mons it beats at +2 are just squished by Medicham. I honestly feel that scrafty actually is a little better than some people give it credit for, but that's beside the point. Medicham's ability to immediately threaten opposing teams is huge, Moreso, in my opinion, than Gallade's access to knock off and setup potential.

 

[feen]

Nominating Sawk from A- to B+

Even though this thing has incredible attacking prowess, ability to break walls, and have a great ability in Sturdy, Sawk is a Pokemon that pretty much demands hazard control alongside it. Even though the hazard control options fit pretty well with Sawk (Flygon, Blastoise or even Kabutops if you are looking for a flying resist), this little detail is actually pretty huge in play since the moment its sturdy get broken, it losts its niche over other wallbreaker fighting types like Gallade, Medicham, or even Hitmonlee. With that being said, I do believe it fits much better with the criteria of a B+ ranked Pokemon way better tbh. Sawk isnt a Pokemon that you can strap into every team due to how it works and I do believe it should drop to B+.