Resource RU Viability Rankings - V3

roman

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157622

(Art By HotFuzzBall )

Welcome to the official RU Viability Rankings thread! In this thread, we as a community will rank every usable Pokemon into ranks. You're encouraged to civilly post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in RU and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each RU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Keep in mind that this thread is simply a reference list and should not be treated as anything more than that.

We've also decided to introduce a Viability Rankings Team that will discuss posts and vote to decide which rank Pokemon will be in.

VR Team:
If you need some guidance as to what set you should be running on your Pokemon, be sure to check out the RU Strategy Dex!

S RANK:

Blastoise-Mega
Zygarde-10%

A RANK:

A+:


154872
Metagross
Registeel
Roserade
Virizion

A:

Golisopod
Ninetales
Noivern
Salazzle
Shaymin
Toxicroak
Tyrantrum

A-:

Barbaracle
Bronzong
Gardevoir
Machamp
Mandibuzz
Milotic
Raikou
Slowbro

B RANK:

B+:


Arcanine
Bewear
Dragalge
Drapion
Feraligatr
Florges
Goodra
Mega Abomasnow
Mismagius
Necrozma
Nidoqueen
Rhyperior
Slowking
Snorlax

B:

Araquanid
Cresselia
Diancie
Donphan
Escavalier
Flygon
Forretress
Linoone
Lycanroc-Dusk
Mantine
Mega Ampharos
Porygon2
Seismitoad
Sigilyph
Swellow
Yanmega

B-:

Aerodactyl
Alolan Marowak
Espeon
Froslass
Gastrodon
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Medicham
Pangoro
Pyukumuku
Tsareena
Vaporeon

C RANK:

C+:


Cloyster
Gigalith
Glalie-Mega
Ribombee
154870
Sawk
Sneasel
Stoutland
Torkoal
Torterra
Umbreon
Venusaur

C:

Galvantula
Golbat
Passimian
Quagsire
Rotom-C
Slurpuff
Steelix
Vivillon
Uxie
Vanilluxe
Xatu

C-:

Emboar
Golem-Alola
Kingdra
Vikavolt

D RANK:

Jolteon
Banette-Mega

RULES:
  • Don't discuss anything in the blacklist. Ever.
  • Avoid one liners and flesh out your post, but remain concise. This helps further the discussion and gives your post more credibility.
  • Do not derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. Similarly, do not derail the thread with other simple questions.
  • Should you want to nominate an unranked Pokemon, it will only be ranked if you have at least 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
  • If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
  • This thread has nothing to do with tiering. Remain civil when posting in this thread.
 
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roman

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Hello all! Here's the update that came with the new thread.

Ranking Updates
Code:
Rises:
Meloetta A+ --> S
Zygarde-10% A+ --> S
Vaporeon C+ -> B-
Torterra C --> C+
Donphan C- -> C+

Drops:
Noivern A+ --> A

===

Stakataka --> Added to A+
Metagross --> Added to A
Sawk --> Added to C+
Reasoning

Rises


Meloetta up for the heavy strain it puts on a player during the teambuilding phase as well as during games, decent bulk and defensive typing prior to using Z-Celebrate give it set up opportunity and a plethora of coverage and potential further set up in Calm Mind lets it pick and choose its checks and counters after boosting.

Choice Band Zygarde-10% has a lot more breathing room with an extremely common glue Pokemon in Gligar and a more uncommon answer, Chesnaught, leaving the tier. Gligar could also service as a DD Zygarde-10% check under the right circumstances which gives that set a slight boost in viability as well.

Vaporeon, although niche, is great for supporting strong, anti-steel Pokemon with Wish while simultaneously acting as a great Mega Blastoise answer. For example, Vaporeon + Flame Orb Machamp is great for combating extremely common Steel-types like Registeel.

Torterra and Donphan are both rising for their ability to switch into Thousand Arrows from Choice Band Zygarde-10% as well as check DD + Dragonium Z in a pinch. They have access to support in Stealth Rock and Donphan has the potential to run Rapid Spin and Knock Off as well. Donphan can also act as a decent check to Offensive Trick Room Stakataka and Metagross.


Drops

Noivern is dropping because although it still provides fantastic Speed control and can successfully utilize Taunt, it's prone to common set up sweepers like Z-Celebrate Meloetta and now Offensive Trick Room Stakataka and struggles to check Grass-types like Shaymin as well as it used to as they have adapted to it by opting for Hidden Power Ice on their sets. It would've dropped a bit lower but its great match up against Fighting-types that are becoming increasingly prevalent keeps it in A.

New Rankings

Stakataka is an extremely threatening sweeper with its Offensive Trick Room set and also has good potential as a Specially Defensive Stealth Rock setter as reflected by its new A+ ranking.

Metagross's versatility lets it fulfill a plethora of roles such as wallbreaker with Choice Band or set up sweeper / cleaner in Agility, and excels at these roles thanks to a fantastic Attack stat, good bulk + typing, and decent Speed.

Although Sawk lacks the immediate firepower of other Fighting-types like Flame Orb Machamp, it still hits harder than many other Fighting-types like Toxicroak and Virizion and has a pretty good Speed tier that puts it above metagame threats like Nidoqueen and Mega Blastoise. It also provides utility in Knock Off and access to Sturdy lets it act as a check to set up sweepers like Barbaracle.

Discussion Points

Toxicroak A- --> A
Snorlax A- --> B+
Flygon B --> B+
Slowbro C+ --> B-
Steelix UR --> ?
 
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Averardo

百地 たまて
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Toxicroak A- --> A Agree

Now without Gligar you can easily run Sucker Punch so its nearly impossible to revengkill after one sd, gunk shot can possibly poison psychic types like Cresselia and Slowbro to make them even less intimidating, and Dry Skin is just really good. Theres really not too much to talk about lol, hes just good

Snorlax A- --> B+ Agree

As i said last time, figthing types (or coverage) are really really good, and physical attackers just got better in general, so its really really hard to actually win with this thing. Band set is still cool, but its not A- worthy.

Flygon B --> B+ idk lol

I used it a lot recently, specifically a defensive set with Defog and Roost. Now that Gligar is gone, he can easily run this set without getting outclassed and cover the toxic weakness with a really good speed tier. Scarf and DDance in the end are still the same, so idk if its worth a rise.

Slowbro C+ --> B- sure lol

Slowbro is really annoing, good defensive typing, good movepool, really good bulk and regenerator. I really dont need to add anything at all, countering Figthing Types, Stakataka and Metagross (even if choice band tpunch you can easily switch out and get health back with regenerator) and checking Lycanrock Dusk and Zygarde in just one slot is really good.

Steelix UR --> ? Never tried it, so abstain

Other noms i hope people argue about cause im too lazy to do so

Donphan to B-
Gastrodon to C/C+
Pyukumuku to C+
Mantine to B+/B
Virizion to A+
Tyrantrum to A+
 

Toxicroak A- -> A
The frog should be moved to A after considering the following arguments:

Toxicroak is a very threatening mon right now and has only gotten better after the tier shifts.
It doesn't suffer from choosing it's coverage as heavily as before since doublade and gligar both have left the tier. Mega-Steelix also was a pokemon that checked it even at +2 even though it had to take considerable damage to do so. However Toxicroak has found itself in a very favorable position in the meta for now since the huge majority of RU mons as well as the most viable options from nubl and nu are hit at least neutral by its two stabs. Exceptions are Nidoqueen, Dragalge, Marowak-Alola, Salazzle and Cofagrigus as well as opposing Toxicroaks. Just to be fair I think I should give Cresselia a mention here because of it's absurd bulk and being able to OHKO croak back.

By not having to run Ice Punch to not be useless against any team with gligar Toxicroak has gained a moveslot that lets it cover the said resistances and counters. Two coverage moves look especially promising for now, being Sucker Punch
and Earthquake
.
Both of these options hit several of the above mentioned ones really hard or ko them. Furthermore toxicroak can choose it's item as it can effectfully utilize z-crystals, life orb and even black sludge. Darkinium Sucker Punch looks extremely threatening right now as it has both the ability to nuke its defensive checks with a strong dark move but also hit frail and faster mons with a priority attack.

So far I have only mentioned its offensive capabilites but the frog is not lacking in its defenses as its ability Dry Skin makes it immune to water moves and by being naturally immune to toxic it can safely switch in on bulky water types. Furthermore its an offensive check to the very threating mega turtle that is running wild on RU. I don't want to extend too much on its defensive capabilities as you choose croak mostly for being an offensive threat but it very much has the capabilities to not only be extremely threatening to the opposing team but also helping your own team to cover opposing threats which makes it clearly worthy of a place amongst the A-RANK list.
 
Donphan to B-
toot toot.png

I fully agree with this. Since the departure of Gligar and Mega Steelix, Mr. Toot Toot lost a lot of competition as a Rocker / Hazard Remover (mainly the former, as MegaStoise is probs still preferred in most cases). Its ability to check Zygarde extremely well with Ice Shard, and also checking some other threats like the BOX and toxicroak is rlly nice as well (especially if u use it w wish support, though could be hard to fit). it still has its obvious setbacks, but its actually worth considering using on ur team now, so i def agree that it should move up. no higher than B- though

Edit:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-846698809 - Heres a replay that kinda shows what donphan can do. managed to keep rocks off against metagross, florges supported w wish support that allowed it to switch in more free against tyrantrum and metagross. was able to come in hard on the zygarde and kill it with ice shard.
 
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454-Toxicroak.png
Toxicroak A- to A = Agree

With losing its checks in Gligar and Doublade Toxicroak definetly gets better. Its ability in dry skin lets it also switch into water attacks pretty safely and it gains health back, combined with Drain Punch, Gunk Shot and Sucker Punch a nice combo to go for and after a SD boost combined with a Life Orb a very solid breaker. I think A reflects Toxiicroak much better than A- does in its capabilities and the breaking power it packs.



250px-143Snorlax.png
Snorlax A- to B+ =Agree

With the fighting type usage of Virizion, Toxicroak and Bewear being solid I think Snorlax should drop a subrank. Now with the introduction of Metagross at RU it also cannot switchin safely into it, since even non CB Metagross does a good chunk to all variants of Snorlax also CB variants cannot lock themselves into Double-Edge / Return that freely.
 
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Toxicroak A- to A rank Agreed - This mon has not just gotten better through the rises (as others discussed) but it also got better through the drops. It's a good check to Staka (special variant deals massive damage to OTR). It's also nice at being to set up nasty plot and go for powerful vacuum waves & z sludge waves. SD is probably the better set but, wouldn't sleep on the nasty.

Snorlax A- to B+ Disagree - It's a great check to Meleotta, Roserade, M-Blastoise, & Shaymin. Not only that but, it's block set is not too shabby at taking out mons like Slowbro/Cress/Milotic so other Fightings types can sweep or punch holes easier.

Virizion A to A+ Agreed - Leoshad makes a great statement by saying it should rise. It performed really good in Snake and has phenomenal usage. This mon is tricky to check due to being able to go physical or special and it's very fast. Being able to outspeed banded, adamant zydoge. It also has decent defensive synergy due to it's high special defense. It can take Zydoge's t-arrows and even set up sometimes on the lock. It also forces Garde to run psyshock due to it's immense bulk on the special side.
 

eaglehawk

once known as smogon gay baby #4
Not much of a RU player, but I saw Snorlax was up for discussion and decided to share this info from the UU VR thread.

UUVR was thinking of unranking Snorlax, but Hogg made a valid argument that Snorlax shouldn't be moved for the time being because of the Custap Berry release, which would theoretically allow Curse Lax to beat over faster threats at under 50% health. This speculation and the other points about it being a great special sponge in this meta should be fair enough reasons to keep it where it is now.
 
There's a massive difference between totally unranking a potential niche and downgrading a mon that is A- at the moment. Lax's central niche in this tier regardless is tied to its ability to shrug off fire attacks from some of the most dangerous threats in the tier, taking that away always resulted in less than desirable uses.

That being said, I'm not entirely convinced it needs to drop right now, and would probably want to wait a bit. Yes, Metagross and Staka can be a pain with the proper sets, but Doublade leaving is a massive boon to CurseLax due to general spammability, and leaves us with one less surefire answer, while Lax still does a number to the fire types. On the opposite side, fighting types are running rampant and lots of them can take advantage of Lax, so I understand the wariness in using it but we can wait I think.

As for the others, no issue with Slowbro and Croak rising, I think they're already showcasing their worth in a pretty obvious way. Flygon still sucks, it's a decent mon that hits very little outside of its good speed tier and covers very little cause the defensive set is already overprepped for due to Noivern being miles ahead in most categories. Steelix is w/e, ok mon for the low Cs since it checks some stuff but the lack of power behind it is painfully obvious in a meta where almost everything can hit it and eat hits.

... Still making the Drapion to A- nom, btw. It lost like the two biggest pains to it in MegaLix and Gligar cause they were annoying to properly cover, Croak gets better with Sucker and Drapion doesn't really care about it, which is actually rare for a faster mon, both setup sets and trapper sets are just more effective right now imo.
 
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Donphan to B-: This is the highest I think it should go because while it did lose competition it didn't lose the previous flaws it always had(inviting in opposing removers, lacking recovery making it easy to wear down, and it being bait to mega blast) but it should rise a small amount because the meta is favorable for it with the rise of zygarde, lycanroc, and new drops in stakataka and Metagross giving it mons it can check. It also can run gunk shot so that it doesn't let in stuff like virizion or shaymin in for free. It's not amazing but it's utility I think places it above the likes of the other mons in C+ whom have no defensive utility(vanilluxe glalie cloyster) or are extremely specialized to work with because they have to be built around entirely(sun duo and linoone). Slowbro should rise as well for similar reasons.

Gastrodon to C/C+: This is a good starting point for gastrodon. It's actually quite sturdy as a check to blast, meta, arcanine, raikou, and stakataka thanks to,it's reasonable bulk combined with recover and a resistance to rock making it hard to wear down. It also does well vs noivern should you opt for ice beam. It can also customize its moves depending on wants or needs such as ice beam for vern, running earthquake over earth power to deny rose a switching doing half to it, or even yawn to force switches. I think it has more than enough useful assets to merit being in the C rank or C+ crowd and it could potentially go higher.

Virizion to A+: 100% agree on it rising to A+. Loss of doublade and gligar means that virizion can run fightinium z or on it's sets to give it a stronger nuke enabling it to nuke the likes of steel types, and a stronger nuke than grassium z for a large chunk of the meta. It's typing also gives it large defensive utility further adding in how easy it can fit on teams.

Toxicroak rising: no longer being forced to run ice punch is a massive boon for croak as it can now run sucker punch so it can bypass its less than stellar speed. It's also still a really powerful breaker with nice defensive utility.
 

Tangela for C
I’m back to get another Regenerator Pokemon that is currently unranked into the C ranks. Tangela’s defensive set is capable of handling some specific but scary threats like Zygarde-10%, Barbaracle, Feraligator, Rhyperior, and Virizion. Tangela also has some nice utility in Knock Off and Sleep Powder as well, which allows it to annoy some of its checks. Its raw bulk and Regenerator also allows players to use it to pivot around certain Pokemon like Metagross, Stakataka, and Tyrantrum. It may have its issues with the many special attackers that can abuse it like Ninetales, Shaymin, Meloetta, etc, but as mentioned, many of these don’t get free entry due to Sleep Powder, as well as a potential Hidden Power. I think past metas were a bit better for Tangela, but its ability to manhandle some of the top threats in the tier still gives it a fine niche for bulkier teams that I think it’s worthy of C rank.
Other stuff I agree with:
Toxicroak from A- —> A
Slowbro C+ —> B-
Steelix UR —> Somewhere in Cs
Donphan C+ —> B-
Virizion A —> A+
 
Gardevoir A -> A-

Garde's best sets are scarf and specs (mainly the former). Either way, as soon as it gets a kill using a stab move, it's choice locked and easily taken advantage of by the new drop Metagross, which is everywhere rn. Non-stab moves like Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball usually aren't ideal for locking into either. I haven't experimented with stuff like Destiny Bond tho, that could get some clutch trades if played correctly but lose even more momentum if not.

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 82-97 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Metagross Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 139-164 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 209-246 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
 

Double01

Hate it or love it the under dog's on top
Nominating Spiritomb for C rank.

Now I know u guys are thinking, "this isn't BW double01, spiritomb is booty". However, SpDef Spiritomb is the single best spin blocker vs Mega-Blastoise while also providing useful counter to pokemon such as meloetta, bewear, mismagius, etc. A SpDef set of Will-o-wisp / foul play / rest /sleep talk makes it so it does not get 3hkoed by blastoise (barring modest waterpulse) and can slowly whittle it down with burns and foul plays. It also cannot be easily set up on due to infiltrator and foul plays hurting physically offensive pokemon. At the very least this mon is on the same or better level as Uxie.

With a metagame fixated so heavily on relying on blastoise to remove hazards, many teams are ill prepared to deal with hazards when the opponent has a spinblocker that can actually rival the blastoise. Spiritomb stands alone as the only ghost that can do that while also not being completely useless vs non-blastoise teams.

Heres some replays showcasing how effective spiritomb is:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-847898230
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-847685626
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-847605922
 
I am too lazy to right out an entire post but I do agree with bro rising, steelix being ranked, and donphan rising to B-. All are solid defensive mons and donphan has some serious power and coverage behind that attack too. Slowbro imo has always been good, but we are now realizing its capabilities in the meta, and Steelix does what mega steelix did, albeit admittedly worse, it still is an excellent check to stakataka, metagross, Snorlax, and to a lesser extent, tyrantrum. It also has a cool sheer force set worth trying with LO, attack and hp, with fang moves, heavy slam/iron tail, EQ, and whatever else you want. I think C+ is fair for it. I think Snorlax should stay where ot as for now, even though Machamp is very good right now, it has great potential in dealing with Staka with EQ and a really crazy CB set that packs an immense punch with Double Edge, so I would leave it at A- for now. Hard Agree on Tangela being ranked, that thing is stupid bulky, and along with 100 special attack preventing it from being passive, it can stop a lot of physical attackers in their tracks, and dish out a lot of damage to them. Another solid check for stakataka as well.

Edit: Crunch is great to screw up meloetta and other psychic and ghost types for Sheer force Steelix, also bump flygon to B+
 
Drapion

B+ -> A-

Since the departure of Mega Steelix and Gligar, Drapion has gotten more better as far as counters are concerned. Drapion is also getting better due to the fact that Metagross has became more centralizing in this meta means that Drapion is a suitable for trapping it and much better with trapping Meloetta. It has decent Attack combined with a nice 110 Defense stat and nice 95 Speed. Though it has issues with Zydog still, which is still centralizing in this meta, doesn't mean it can't be considered for a nice spot.

Other Nominations that I consider

Steelix UR -> C/C+
Donphan C+ -> B-
Tangela UR -> C -/C
Spiritomb UR -> C
Flygon B -> B+/A-
Toxicroak A- -> A
 
Mega Banette to UR:
It's heavily reliant on Prankster Destiny Bond to pressure opponents, and while Mega Banette sports a meaty 165 physical attack stat, it doesn't have a boosting move, and as thus, there's literally no reason to use it over, say, Mismagius. It's hopelessly outclassed by the niche Hoopa-Confined, Decidueye, and Froslass, with the former two having access to a boosting move, while the latter can set up Spikes and is faster. Honestly, this thing is a bad pokemon. Do not even try to use it, it's useless, frail, slow, and serves absolutely no purpose outside of its main set.
Noms that have been widely talked about that I want to give my opinion on:
Steelix to C/C+: Not really
When I say "Not Really" to a nomination, that means that I agree with some parts of it but disagree with the rest. Steelix rising here is no exception. While its defenses are great, none of its abilities really do that much. Steel/Ground is decent with the added Electric immunity, but the added Water weakness hurts it. It is also rather passive, meaning that more offensive teams, especially on the special side, can take advantage of it and KO it while Steelix probably can't do much. It's also slow and doesn't sport a good special defense stat, so it can be taken advantage of by fast special attackers. Nontheless, I think it should rise, but really only to C or C-.
Donphan to B-: Probably
While I don't like its speed tier and special defense, with Gligar packing its bags and leaving for UU, this has allowed Donphan to shine. Now, it does face competition from Mega Blastoise as a spinner, and Mandibuzz as an entry hazard remover, however, it has some niches over them. Its good physical attack stat and defense stat alike makes it deadly to face if you aren't carrying a physical wall. A respectable HP stat of 90 means that it can stomach a couple hits and prepare to retaliate back. Everyone's said it all: Rise Donphan.
Flygon to B+/A-: Agree
While most of its stats look average, it can function as an effective setup sweeper, pivot, or even a revenge killer. It has a lot of chances to get Dragon Dance up because it can force out a lot of rock, steel, and ground-types such as Gigalith, Nidoqueen, and Metagross. What's even better, it has an extensive movepool, so it can threaten a vast majority of the tier. Dragon/Ground also packs a lot of resistances, and the added electric-type immunity and Levitate make it resilient to entry hazards. Again, everyone's said it all: Rise it to B+/A-. I myself think A- sounds good, but I could consider it rising to B+.
~Signing off!~
-SteelixPrismGX
 
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Rhyperior to B:
While it has a good STAB combination and a solid SR setter, Rhyperior's special defense is almost non-existent. What's worse, it also has no recovery, so it's prone to getting worn down. Rock/Ground is such an exploitable typing, which doesn't help considering how common Milotic and Shaymin are. Yep, it hates water and grass-type coverage. With Gligar and Chesnaught packing their bags and leaving for UU, life has been made slightly easier, but you know what else is here? THAT'S RIGHT, METAGROSS. NOT EVEN KIDDING. THIS 4-LEGGED ROBOT JUST SUMMONS DOOM ON RHYPERIOR. Sorry for all caps, but I'm sorry, Ground doesn't resist steel, so Bullet Punch from Metagross will OOF it. Yeah, it has to watch out for Earthquake wiping it clean off the field, but even then, there's always Ice Punch to dump nightmares on Rhyperior's life. Oh yeah, I forgot about the real nightmare: Grass Knot. While Metagross may not have too high of a special attack stat, this takes advantage of Rhyperior's greatest fear: Grass/Water-Type coverage. Oh. Rhyperior's also heavy, so expect this to be a clean and brisk OHKO. Yeah, it has a good physical defense stat and a decent HP stat to sport that, but I don't see it anywhere near the usefulness of B+.
Mega Banette to UR:
It's heavily reliant on Prankster Destiny Bond to pressure opponents, and while Mega Banette sports a meaty 165 physical attack stat, it doesn't have a boosting move, and as thus, there's literally no reason to use it over, say, Mismagius. It's hopelessly outclassed by the niche Hoopa-Confined, Decidueye, and Froslass, with the former two having access to a boosting move, while the latter can set up Spikes and is faster. Honestly, this thing is a bad pokemon. Do not even try to use it, it's useless, frail, slow, and serves absolutely no purpose outside of its main set.
Noms that have been widely talked about that I want to give my opinion on:
Steelix to C/C+: Not really
When I say "Not Really" to a nomination, that means that I agree with some parts of it but disagree with the rest. Steelix rising here is no exception. While its defenses are great, none of its abilities really do that much. Steel/Ground is decent with the added Electric immunity, but the added Water weakness hurts it. It is also rather passive, meaning that more offensive teams, especially on the special side, can take advantage of it and KO it while Steelix probably can't do much. It's also slow and doesn't sport a good special defense stat, so it can be taken advantage of by fast special attackers. Nontheless, I think it should rise, but really only to C or C-.
Donphan to B-: Probably
While I don't like its speed tier and special defense, with Gligar packing its bags and leaving for UU, this has allowed Donphan to shine. Now, it does face competition from Mega Blastoise as a spinner, and Mandibuzz as an entry hazard remover, however, it has some niches over them. Its good physical attack stat and defense stat alike makes it deadly to face if you aren't carrying a physical wall. A respectable HP stat of 90 means that it can stomach a couple hits and prepare to retaliate back. Everyone's said it all: Rise Donphan.
Flygon to B+/A-: Agree
While most of its stats look average, it can function as an effective setup sweeper, pivot, or even a revenge killer. It has a lot of chances to get Dragon Dance up because it can force out a lot of rock, steel, and ground-types such as Gigalith, Nidoqueen, and Metagross. What's even better, it has an extensive movepool, so it can threaten a vast majority of the tier. Dragon/Ground also packs a lot of resistances, and the added electric-type immunity and Levitate make it resilient to entry hazards. Again, everyone's said it all: Rise it to B+/A-. I myself think A- sounds good, but I could consider it rising to B+.
~Signing off!~
-SteelixPrismGX
Honestly this whole Rhyperior section barely scratches the surface of what Rhyperior even does or is just wrong. Emphasizing its Grass and Water weakness is unecessary at this point and ignores the fact that offensive variants can heavily dent said types anyways, and glosses over Rhyperior’s defensive/offensive capabilities and Stealth Rock utility. The Metagross section is where it’s just wrong. Bullet Punch and Ice Punch equates to chip damage, and you fail to even mention Meteor Mash when that’s the STAB of choice vs Rhyperior.

252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 87-105 (20 - 24.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 111-132 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 199-235 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even offensive variants don’t mind, and this is disregarding the fact that Rhyperiors could very easily be running much more physical Defense nowadays as well. Ice Punch and Grass Knot also are pretty lackluster coverage moves compared to Earthquake and Thunder Punch, which implies you didn’t exactly look into the validity of your arguments. Also, you don’t mention Shuca Metagross at all, which is the only truly annoying variant for Rhyperior to deal with.

Mega Banette would go to D rank rather than UR due to being RU by usage. It is a fairly mediocre Pokemon, but I’m not comfortable going too deeply into it so I’ll keep quiet there.

Nothing about Steelix is really wrong here, but I could say half the same things about Mega Steelix as well, with the main difference being damage output, which was touched on a bit, but truly makes the difference. Personally I find access to Leftovers makes the difference in bulk less noticeable, but Steelix’s reliance on utility due to less power does make it notably worse than its mega, which is why C ranks are fine.
 
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Mega Banette to UR:
It's heavily reliant on Prankster Destiny Bond to pressure opponents, and while Mega Banette sports a meaty 165 physical attack stat, it doesn't have a boosting move, and as thus, there's literally no reason to use it over, say, Mismagius. It's hopelessly outclassed by the niche Hoopa-Confined, Decidueye, and Froslass, with the former two having access to a boosting move, while the latter can set up Spikes and is faster. Honestly, this thing is a bad pokemon. Do not even try to use it, it's useless, frail, slow, and serves absolutely no purpose outside of its main set.
Noms that have been widely talked about that I want to give my opinion on:
Steelix to C/C+: Not really
When I say "Not Really" to a nomination, that means that I agree with some parts of it but disagree with the rest. Steelix rising here is no exception. While its defenses are great, none of its abilities really do that much. Steel/Ground is decent with the added Electric immunity, but the added Water weakness hurts it. It is also rather passive, meaning that more offensive teams, especially on the special side, can take advantage of it and KO it while Steelix probably can't do much. It's also slow and doesn't sport a good special defense stat, so it can be taken advantage of by fast special attackers. Nontheless, I think it should rise, but really only to C or C-.
Donphan to B-: Probably
While I don't like its speed tier and special defense, with Gligar packing its bags and leaving for UU, this has allowed Donphan to shine. Now, it does face competition from Mega Blastoise as a spinner, and Mandibuzz as an entry hazard remover, however, it has some niches over them. Its good physical attack stat and defense stat alike makes it deadly to face if you aren't carrying a physical wall. A respectable HP stat of 90 means that it can stomach a couple hits and prepare to retaliate back. Everyone's said it all: Rise Donphan.
Flygon to B+/A-: Agree
While most of its stats look average, it can function as an effective setup sweeper, pivot, or even a revenge killer. It has a lot of chances to get Dragon Dance up because it can force out a lot of rock, steel, and ground-types such as Gigalith, Nidoqueen, and Metagross. What's even better, it has an extensive movepool, so it can threaten a vast majority of the tier. Dragon/Ground also packs a lot of resistances, and the added electric-type immunity and Levitate make it resilient to entry hazards. Again, everyone's said it all: Rise it to B+/A-. I myself think A- sounds good, but I could consider it rising to B+.
~Signing off!~
-SteelixPrismGX
I stand up for Mega Scary Puppy mon.
First you compare Ghost mon with other Ghost type instead of to compare with other same role. And that's the point, Mega Banette has a role which is rare in this tier, it's to deal with any kind of offensive pokémon (maybe except Vivillon or SD Gatr) even set up (Linoone, Slurpuff, Barbaracle, DD Gatr...) tanks to a priority 1 Destiny Bond (and the Destiny Bond system) and enjoys the Mega evolution turn order buff. Moreover it's even better to annoy the defensive core in a Mega-Lix less metagame, Knock Off, Shadow Claw, Gunk Shot can pressure a lot of defensive mons.
Obviously, this thing should be NU since a long time but I don't think it deserves the D rank, it still got a specific niche where it is one of the best a this.

Steelix to C/C+: of course yes
Because VoltTurn is a thing now specially since Gligar and Mega Lix are gone. It can check Raikou, Ampharos Fabio set (Jolteon lol...) and Gardevoir, sturdy can be useful in this meta too. It's really frailer than Mega Lix and becomes "Knockable Off", need to be adamant with few investment in attack to OHKO a threat like Toxicroak but deserves an entry in this VR.

Virizion A to A+ : even S rank
Balanced team is a endangered because of this. Without Gligar which could pivot on this or Doublade which walled this, it's become so painful to deal with it. You have to check now, what is its Z move FIghtinium, Rockium, Psychium, Grassium, is it Special or Physical ? Defensive stuff which checked that in ORAS are now destroyed by the Z like Golbat, Garbodor....Cresselia can't take a x4 atk Bloom Doom. Only Granbull can still check it (but come on...Granbull...) among defensive mon if not you have to run a combination of mon which can option select its different set.
For offensive teams it's a big deal too, even if we gain Metagross which can be run Scarf or have enough bulk to take a x2 Virizion move (execept a All Out Plume), the fact Rockium or Zen Headbutt can exist makes it harder to check it. We'll see how the meta progress but I think it'll be a problem...maybe I'm wrong.

I agree with other nominations specially with Tangela one.

Making a nomination :
Hitmonlee UR to C/C+ : First, I agree to up every fighting type since Gligar and Doublade are left. Why Hitmonlee while we have Medicham, Sawk, Bewear etc...? It's one of rare Wallbreaker which can check Toise and OHKO it (I think this only argument is enough to make it C at least ) with the Band Set Reckless, it does same damages than a Medicham LO HJK and God knows how I love Medicham but I have to admit that Lee has a better niche than Medicham for a Wallbreaker role. It gets Close Combat to deal against the protect user too. It can Rapid Spin too but Blastoise-Mega outclass it for this....by far.
 
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Virizion rise yes
640-Virizion.png

I also think at this point, Virizion should really rise. It has a good typing with grass/fighting, its best checks in Doublade and Gligar are gone, has good setup moves in SD and CM and also a good speed tier (108).
It checks Zygarde 10% pretty well, it also has moves like Stone Edge and Zen Headbutt, which are able to get rid of Salazzle, Ninetales, Arcanine and even does a good chunk to Bronzong after +2 with its STAB Close Combat:
+2 252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 268-316 (79.2 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
this mon is pretty splashable as a fast Wallbreaker in the current metagame as well with moves, which can catch almost the entire RU tier at least for neutral damage with its two STABS and coverage. It also profits from a decent bulk with 91/72/129. Virizion is by now one of the most recognizeable threats at RU and I think A+ is better placing for it.
 
Hey guys! I stopped playing this tier for a little bit, but with these new drops (namely Raikou, Stakataka, and Metagross) I'm back to RU. I have a couple of comments to say about these new Pokemon and Virizion. Also YES, FINALLY!! Jolteon is completely outclassed and will drop to NU. It's about time!

Raikou to A+ -> I know this seems a little crazy, considering Raikou sorta dies to two of the three S ranks. But, hear me out. Raikou has a vast amount of sets that are actually very viable. There's of course, the Scarf, Specs, Sub Calm Mind, Three Attacks calm mind, and, now coming to prevalence, Specially defensive Roar. With access to great coverage with moves like Aura Sphere, HPIce, Shadow Ball, Extrasensory, and Tbolt/Volt Switch, this Poke is clearly showing that it's the best electric type in the tier.

Stakataka - Not much to say about this. Stak's rank is perfect as it is. The few counters it has are the Steel/Psychic types. When combined with a couple of pursuit trappers, Stakataka + Marowak can cleanly sweep complete teams.

Metagross to B -> I know this sorta seems controversial, but in my opinion, Metagross doesn't like this tier in the slightest. Metagross switches in on things like rock types, sure, and can be a soft check to Roserade, but Bronzong sorta does it's job better. Metagross, however, does support a niche in the tier being the best rock polish weakness policy Pokemon the tier has ever seen. However, he has too many common weaknesses to be completely viable, especially in a tier where Zydog, Ninetales, and Mandibuzz are so common.

Virizion to A+ -> Strongly agree with this. So many teams just cripple against the most standard sets of this. This Pokemon eats up all Knock Offs, kills Blastoise, and Okoes over half the tier after one SD. This thing is actually insane and I like that it's dominating. No mo Gligar, no mo Ches, no mo Doublade, a lot mo Virizion

Spiritomb to B-> Nah. Just no. He's a "great spin blocker," sure, but honestly, this thing doesn't really support any offensive pressure, and is and easy switch in for Sub Raikou. I'd put him in C- if you guys really want him ranked, but honestly, his niche is too small to support any real value. However, I do like how he pursuits pretty well.

And finally, Tangela to B- -> I think this thing is now one of the bulkiest things in the tier, has a good chance to kill stakataka, learns leech seed, knock off, giga drain, sleep powder. Tangela is insane. Partnered with (yes actually) Virizion and Arcanine, it's definitely one scary mon.

Well, let me know what you think about this. I do like RU again, and Blastioise needs like 23 suspect tests, but other than that, I think that this is a solid tier. Name's B@dger on showdown, and I hope you agree with my Rises and drops.
 
Metagross to B -> I know this sorta seems controversial, but in my opinion, Metagross doesn't like this tier in the slightest. Metagross switches in on things like rock types, sure, and can be a soft check to Roserade, but Bronzong sorta does it's job better. Metagross, however, does support a niche in the tier being the best rock polish weakness policy Pokemon the tier has ever seen. However, he has too many common weaknesses to be completely viable, especially in a tier where Zydog, Ninetales, and Mandibuzz are so common.
Not sure if I can agree with your Metagross nom although I can agree with most of your other noms.

Metagross has already been making waves in RarelyUsed, with its versatility allowing to fulfill a plethora of roles, whether it be a sweeper/cleaner with Agility or a wallbreaker with Choice Band, it can do so very successfully due to its great physical attack and defense alike. Its speed isn't the best, but it has access to Agility and Rock Polish so this isn't much of a problem. Its typing, while it gives a nasty weakness to Knock Off, allows it to resist fighting, which is actually pretty darn common, with Machamp, Virizion, Toxicroak, and the niche Sawk becoming increasingly common here, Metagross can deal with them quite well.

Bronzong is by no means bad, on the contrary, I find it pretty damn good, but since they do completely different things, it simply wouldn't work to compare them. Bronzong, while it has wonderful bulk on both the physical and special side, is extremely passive and one of the slowest pokemon in RarelyUsed, just slightly faster than Snorlax, Slowking, Slowbro, Escavalier, Stakataka, and Pyukumuku. Sure, it's better in that it has Levitate, but not in the fact that it does Metagross's job as well as Metagross. Nothing does Metagross's job like Metagross itself. You can't compare something that only fits on defensive teams to something that can wallbreak, sweep, or clean very successfully.

Moreover, I feel that you undervalue its versatility when you mention how common Zydog, Ninetales, and Mandibuzz are. Metagross's versatility is extremely useful against most of its would-be countermeasures. It has access to Earthquake, which straight up decimates Ninetales. Rock Slide can also deal with Ninetales and Mandibuzz, though there are better options out there. Ice Punch just rips Zydog to shreds and heavily dents Mandibuzz. Ninetales requires setting up Nasty Plot if it really wants to KO Metagross, which can allow Metagross to use Earthquake against it. Mandibuzz, while being able to threaten Metagross with its Dark-Type STAB, has to worry about coming in if Stealth Rock is up, and believe me, Metagross can set SR. Brave Bird also causes a shit ton of recoil, although it has Roost to alleviate this issue. However, Roost also comes at the cost of losing your ground immunity if you're a Flying-Type, (which Mandibuzz is), allowing Metagross to hit it with Earthquake and potentially KO before Mandibuzz has the slightest chance of seeing another turn.

To sum this up, nothing does Metagross's job quite like Metagross. Bronzong doesn't pack any offensive presence, allowing faster pokemon with super effective coverage to KO it while it can do almost nothing back. Its only hope is to retaliate with Gyro Ball, but even then it has to take a hit before it can do so. Metagross is a slow but absurdly powerful wallbreaker that not only is a wallbreaker, but can be a sweeper/cleaner due to its versatility. It is not passive and absurdly slow, so by no means should it be compared to bulky but passive steel types like Bronzong, but instead fulfills a completely different role.

I like most of your other noms, but I can't have you punish the 4-legged robotic super-weapon like this. I think Metagross is fine in A at the moment and shouldn't drop (or for the matter, rise).
 
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Hey guys! I stopped playing this tier for a little bit, but with these new drops (namely Raikou, Stakataka, and Metagross) I'm back to RU. I have a couple of comments to say about these new Pokemon and Virizion. Also YES, FINALLY!! Jolteon is completely outclassed and will drop to NU. It's about time!

Raikou to A+ -> I know this seems a little crazy, considering Raikou sorta dies to two of the three S ranks. But, hear me out. Raikou has a vast amount of sets that are actually very viable. There's of course, the Scarf, Specs, Sub Calm Mind, Three Attacks calm mind, and, now coming to prevalence, Specially defensive Roar. With access to great coverage with moves like Aura Sphere, HPIce, Shadow Ball, Extrasensory, and Tbolt/Volt Switch, this Poke is clearly showing that it's the best electric type in the tier.

Stakataka - Not much to say about this. Stak's rank is perfect as it is. The few counters it has are the Steel/Psychic types. When combined with a couple of pursuit trappers, Stakataka + Marowak can cleanly sweep complete teams.

Metagross to B -> I know this sorta seems controversial, but in my opinion, Metagross doesn't like this tier in the slightest. Metagross switches in on things like rock types, sure, and can be a soft check to Roserade, but Bronzong sorta does it's job better. Metagross, however, does support a niche in the tier being the best rock polish weakness policy Pokemon the tier has ever seen. However, he has too many common weaknesses to be completely viable, especially in a tier where Zydog, Ninetales, and Mandibuzz are so common.

Virizion to A+ -> Strongly agree with this. So many teams just cripple against the most standard sets of this. This Pokemon eats up all Knock Offs, kills Blastoise, and Okoes over half the tier after one SD. This thing is actually insane and I like that it's dominating. No mo Gligar, no mo Ches, no mo Doublade, a lot mo Virizion

Spiritomb to B-> Nah. Just no. He's a "great spin blocker," sure, but honestly, this thing doesn't really support any offensive pressure, and is and easy switch in for Sub Raikou. I'd put him in C- if you guys really want him ranked, but honestly, his niche is too small to support any real value. However, I do like how he pursuits pretty well.

And finally, Tangela to B- -> I think this thing is now one of the bulkiest things in the tier, has a good chance to kill stakataka, learns leech seed, knock off, giga drain, sleep powder. Tangela is insane. Partnered with (yes actually) Virizion and Arcanine, it's definitely one scary mon.

Well, let me know what you think about this. I do like RU again, and Blastioise needs like 23 suspect tests, but other than that, I think that this is a solid tier. Name's B@dger on showdown, and I hope you agree with my Rises and drops.
I disagree with some of the notions in your nominations.

Metagross should stay in A rank because of how much offensive pressure you can put onto your opponent in battle. He can stomp Bronzong with Pursuit. The "he has too many weaknesses to be completely viable" is 100% bullshit. Metagross can still function even if Zydog runs this tier still (sadly). Like I said he can exert pressure on other teams and you have other Pokemon to polish out those checks that Metagross has. Note I said "checks". His Banded Meteor Mash can OHKO Zydog, close to 2HKO Mandibuzz, Zen Headbutt does a lot too, but Meteor Mash is the most spammable. Metagross is a better Stealth Rocker than even Bronzong because it's not a passive floating bell like what Bronzong is.

Tangela's nomination though is agreeable, but I wouldn't suggest B- for the time being. I'd suggest a C to C+ ranking because it's only niche right in the meta is countering Zydog, it's a nice niche but Tangela get's bopped by other S ranked and/or A ranked mons with Knock Off and or Superior Sp.Attack.

Blastoise isn't in need of a ban or a suspect.

Spiritomb I more so support out of the 4 nominations you declared. It is indeed an amazing spinblocker for Blastoise and can do well than most spinblockers.

Virizion I definitely I agree with. One of the best Fighting types in the tier with amazing versatility in attacking options.

Stakataka should also stay as well.
 
Hello! I'd like to make my own nomination:
158580

I feel like Necrozma needs to rise from B -> B+ or even A.

I've been playing Necrozma on the ladder lately (and I'm writing its revamp on C&C) and I have to say that Necrozma is pretty damn underrated on the ladder. This is, in my opinion, one of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters and wallbreakers in the tier. Why? Because this has the offenses and Speed to take out every Rapid Spinner in the tier and even pressure Defoggers except for Mandibuzz. It also is the only Stealth Rock user that does not care about the rise of Fighting-types in RU like Machamp and is way less passive than Uxie. I think the best set right now is Stealth Rock + Calm Mind with Psychium Z because even at +1, Shattered Psyche is enough to pressure special walls like Florges and Mantine and even OHKO Mega Blastoise. Photon Geyser also ignores Abilities so it can especially power past Donphan and rare Stall teams. Yeah, Photon Geyser doesn't really OHKO Forretress, but guess what it has? Heat Wave to pressure Steel-types and it does enough to pressure Dark-types like Drapion and Mandibuzz.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Prism Armor, this amazing ability Necrozma has that (combined with its solid defenses) allows it to stomach super-effective hits that not even Slowbro and Uxie can stomach. Knock Off from Banded Drapion only 2HKOs Necrozma (even after Stealth Rock).

You want to take down special walls after you use your Z Move? No problem! Necrozma has a nice Swords Dance set that can power past Pokemon such as Snorlax, Metagross, Registeel, Slowbro, Uxie, Cresselia, Tangela, and Umbreon. This set has amazing coverage options like Earthquake, X-Scissor, Knock Off, and even STAB with Photon Geyser that still outpaces and pressures entry hazard removers.

My point is Necrozma has amazing role compression in one Pokemon and it really deserves to be much higher than B on the ranks. Yeah, it still gets outpaced by a few things, but Necrozma is an amazing Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker for this more offensive-based metagame. Definitely rise this thing to at least B+. Maybe even A because it's the most consistent Stealth Rocker in the tier.

Other noms I agree with:
  • Steelix: UR -> C/C+
  • Donphan: C+ -> B-
  • Tangela: UR -> C -/C
  • Toxicroak A- --> A
  • Flygon B --> B+/A-
  • Slowbro C+ --> B-/B+
  • Virizion A -> A+
Thanks for reading and have a nice day! :blobthumbsup:



 
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roman

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Hey guys, pretty big VR update, glad we can clean out some of the lower ranks.. thanks to everyone that helped with the update!

Ranking Updates
Code:
Rises:
Virizion A --> A+
Registeel A --> A+
Toxicroak A- --> A
Mandibuzz B+ --> A-
Slowbro C+ --> B
Tsareena C+ --> B-
Stoutland C --> C+
Ribombee C --> C+
Xatu C- --> C

Drops:
Roserade S --> A+
Milotic A+ --> A
Mantine A- --> B+
Yanmega B+ --> B
Vanilluxe C+ --> C
Hoopa C+ --> UR
Jellicent C --> UR
Kingdra C --> C-
Minior C --> UR
Bruxish C --> UR
Mega Banette C- --> D

===

Gastrodon --> B-
Steelix --> C
Golbat --> C
Reasoning

Rises

Virizion up to A+ for its fantastic offensive presence as well as great utility if it goes for the Synthesis route that lets it switch in and punish some of the bigger threats such as Mega Blastoise and Choice Band Zygarde-10%. Virizion also gained a lot of traction due to the loss of Doublade and even Gligar (specifically physically defensive U-turn -> pivot out to revenge killer) and has the potential to go for a more offensive set with coverage to take out splashable "checks" such as Noivern.

Registeel has only gotten better since the recent rises as well as the Stakataka ban, it's able to effectively pressure the most popular forms of hazard removal thanks to Toxic + Protect, flat out wall a plethora of special attackers, and abuse its typing to act as a switch in to some physical attackers like Tyrantrum.

Toxicroak is one of the biggest nuisances for balance teams thanks to its typing and ability and now even offensive teams are forced to prepare for it because it can freely run Sucker Punch. It's also got the option to run Poisonium Z to flat out invalidate Life Orb checks such as Slowbro, Brave Bird Mandibuzz, and even Cresselia provided Stealth Rock is up.

With Gligar gone, Mandibuzz is the best form of hazard removal bar Mega Blastoise and, unlike the other Defog users, can stand a chance against the defensive Stealth Rock users thanks to Taunt and is workable against offensive ones like Necrozma and Metagross thanks to its bulk and typing. However, Mandibuzz has a glaring issue with its moveset - you'll want all of Taunt, Knock Off, Foul Play, Brave Bird, and potentially Toxic while being forced to run Roost and Defog unless paired with hazard removal, which forces it to fold to a bunch of Pokemon.

Slowbro's got a niche over other bulky Water-types like Milotic thanks to its immense Defense stat that lets it take on a ton of physical attackers like Zygarde-10% and Life Orb Toxicroak. Regenerator is also fantastic for keeping up with the more offensive metagame, as with other Water-types you'll be forced to heal to consistently check Pokemon whereas you can more freely make double switches with Slowbro. It's also got creative options like Colbur / Rindo Berry to deal with more threats such as Machamp and Virizion.

Tsareena's risen as a niche Rapid Spin user that's able to outright beat some Stealth Rock users and cripple the defensive ones with Knock Off. Queenly Majesty lets it check Pokemon like Guts Machamp and Swords Dance Pangoro and lets it force Zygarde-10% into Outrage / blow it's Z-Move, which is pretty useful. It's also got access to moves like U-turn, Play Rough, Aromatherapy, and High Jump Kick that can make it difficult to play around.

Stoutland's gotten some use as a weather sweeper with Sand support (typically from Gigalith) as seen on SPL builds created by EviGaro and Ajna. It's also able to trap and remove Pokemon like Roserade thanks to Pursuit.

With Grass-types like Virizion being better than ever, Choice Specs Ribombee has found a niche as a revenge killer and can provide U-turn support as well. It's also got the potential to break down defensive cores that lack solid switch ins to its coverage (ie Bronzong / Steelix as the Steel-type) and has a decent enough defensive typing that allows it to act as a 1-time switch in to Pokemon like Zygarde-10% and Shaymin.

Xatu has a flawless matchup against defensive Stealth Rock users, notably Registeel and Bronzong, which is really important, especially in a metagame with scarce hazard removal that consistently beats aforementioned Stealth Rock setters.

Drops

Roserade is as hard to switch into as ever and it's very hard to find Pokemon that remove against it but it just isn't S rank material anymore - the fast-paced metagame gives it even fewer turns than before and the defensive utility other Grass-types like Shaymin and Virizion provide is frequently too important to justify using Roserade, especially with so many threats like Zygarde-10% that heavily restrict teambuilding.

Milotic simply can't keep up with the metagame as it's easily overwhelmed by rising Pokemon like Guts Machamp and lets a bunch of threats in for free. It's also got competition with other Water-types that can provide more utility - Mega Blastoise / Mantine both with hazard removal etc. It also forces the Milotic user to play passively and stay healthy constantly to make up for somewhat lackluster physical bulk while other bulky Water-types like Regenerator Slowbro can be played much more offensively.

Mantine is simply not an effective Defog user against any of the defensive Stealth Rock setters and the couple that it would in theory be fine against still have good options to beat it (CM Necrozma / Toxic / Thunder Punch Metagross). It's also forced to nearly always run the same set or drop Air Slash at the cost of making a bunch of matchups awful (Grass-types, Guts Machamp etc) which makes it very predictable and easy to play around.

With hazard removal being scarce, it's difficult to justify using Yanmega when it's so weak to Stealth Rock, especially since you'll be forced to support it with strong (lol) hazard removal and pivots to give it turns. At the end of the day you'll be better off going with other wallbreakers or cleaners that don't require such support to function.

Vanilluxe / Kingdra are dropping down because recent trends go against them but they've still got potential to tear down opposing team provided they get a good matchup. For example, Registeel rising hurts Vanilluxe and the rise of more offensive teams cuts into Focus Energy Kingdra's viability, but Vanilluxe can rip through teams lacking a sturdy Steel-type and Kingdra can still set up all over passive Water-types like Milotic, so they'll stay ranked.

The VR council has worked through C rank and we've decided to remove all of Hoopa / Jellicent / Minior / Bruxish / Mega Banette (going to D because it's still RU by usage). They've been pretty terrible for a while and many of them are outright outclassed (Jellicent), completely lost any niche they had because of the recent tier shifts (Minior), or are just terrible.

New Rankings

Gastrodon faces strong competition but stands out with its unique set of resists and access to recovery. Its solid bulk on both sides allows it to reliably check a fair amount of top threats such as Mega Blastoise, Choice Scarf Tyrantrum, Metagross, Noivern, and Barbaracle.

Regular Steelix has a fantastic typing that lets it switch into Rock-types like Tyrantrum and check Fairy-types like Gardevoir and Florges. It's also a decent Stealth Rock user able to pressure common forms of hazard removal thanks to Toxic.

Golbat rises as a solid counter to Fighting-types that can pressure them with a surprisingly strong Flying-type STAB in Brave Bird. It has access to several utility moves that makes it appealing, but its reliance on Eviolite to maintain solid bulk also means it's easily pressured.

Discussion Points

Seismitoad A- --> B+
Florges B --> B+
Slowbro B --> B+
Cresselia B --> B+
Necrozma B --> B+
 
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Linoone

159206


C+ -> B-

This Pokemon has been ranked in C+ ever since the main tanks in the tier that made it struggle as a Belly Drum sweeper (Doublade, Mega Steelix, Gligar, & Stakataka kinda), are finally no longer here. Since these counters are no longer here I personally and some of the RU community think that Linoone got buffed. That's my main reason why I am making this nomination in the first place. Bronzong, even though it can counter Linoone, is still less relevant than ever since Registeel is used more generally for its mono-Steel typing and better defenses. Even if someone uses Bronzong, Linoone still has the option to run Throat Chop and if it wants to defeat Bewear, Play Rough, even though most run Stomping Tantrum because it's more useful. Even if there is counters to Linoone, Linoone still has little to no switch in's into the tier, it's teammates can also support Linoone and destroy its issues. Even if it got buffs, it still somewhat relies on team support more to sweep despite it's buffs (like entry hazards, memento support, screens support, etc.) hence why I'm making a small nomination. Nonetheless, it's harder to switch into and worth using as a teammate even if you need to use team support.

Notable Nominations that I Support

Necrozma B -> B+
Flygon B -> B+/A-
Donphan C+ -> B-
Drapion B+ -> A-
Tangela UR -> C-/C

Thanks for the read!
 
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