Tournament RUGL II Format Discussion

[Fernanch]

Fwiw the comment i made wasn't to argue against LCRU but more to point out the fallacy of NDRU being excluded for X, Y, Z reasons.

Oh no I completely understand that, nat dex ru SHOULD be the main tier that people have in mind. Nat dex is already a community that has hard time finds itself on the tiers tours, so it would be a stab in the back of them not having it.

Also regarding some past concerns about. The tour beign more of the same, and kindda jaring, I get this, since we just had that on lc. We had a lcpl, and basically right after it ended, we got lcbc, that is literally lcpl + lcuu and doubles lc. That tour felt really weird, it just felt more of the same, and if people from ru are afraid of this, having a change of pace with lcru would be really nice.

I also agree with maybe having -1 Lt or -1 sv to accommodate 2 fun tiers, since that would be a big change from past tours, but at the same time taking off a old gen is a stab in the back of the old gen mains, and -1 sv would probably be the only solution, like goldcat said, but at the same time, having 3 sv really takes off the newer rising players that want to play the tier, and that sucks a lot.

In conclusion, it is a bit hard to not make the tiers repetitive without messing one part of the community over, so it is better to keep 1 "fun tiers" at max

 

[GoldCat]

I will say that I find it odd that the person above is willing to choose metagames that have little to no presence on Smogon forums such as Ubers RU and LC RU under the guise of "it will help them be more interested in slam tiers" or "make grand slam connections" or whatever. I won't comment on LC heavily out of lack of what goes on there but don't think we need to be expert in Ubers to understand how severely detached a discord only metagame such as Ubers RU is to standard Ubers. You cannot seriously look at an pool of mons like this and tell me with a straight face that it will translate into a better understanding on how to play another Ubers tier. It also took me all of 5 seconds to find that people in both the Ubers UU and LC sections advocate against it in its own section's team tours. A lot of the points to support their inclusion made by Nanchlax can also be said for NatDex RU except there is way less of a risk in the pool being small compared to that of LC RU and others. There are surely better ways of making Grand Slam connections than trolling your own tour.

Again the point isn't the tiers, but if we want to include tiers from other communities, it should be from ones connected to RU. Official tiers have strong ties to RU unlike ND, which is why I gave those two as examples. I'm not arguing for their inclusion. I think RUGL should stay RU tiers only.

 

[BigFatMantis]

Hi I’m chiming in again here re: “fun tiers”:

The reason we included Ubers UU in UUFPL was not because it was a “fun tier” (although imo it is a very fun tier). But rather, I felt that it would be extremely beneficial to place a tier that had a lot of promise, but not a lot of exposure, in a team tour to help it develop. And, thankfully, it worked, and Ubers UU really took off since then (not just because of UUFPL but it certainly helped more people get involved). I’ve done this in other tours as well where I try to identify a tier that I believe could use some help developing and has a lot of promise if given the opportunity.

No comment on what tier, if any, that is possible with for RU. I do know Ubers RU is an actual thing with a dedicated playerbase that got shunned out of UUbersPL, so that could be cool. Not sure what kind of exposure LC RU has. I imagine ND RU probably has a good amount of exposure already.

 

[Fernanch]

Not sure what kind of exposure LC RU has.

Basically, we (lcru) had a money tour last year and a presence on the LC Discord team tour lpl, where most members of the lc community play on. There they have 3 sv, 3 old gens, lcuu, lc doubles and lcru/natdex/monotype. It didn't make it on the lcbc because the unofficial tier options where lc doubles and lcuu

 

[THE_CHUNGLER]

Echoing with hex in her post regarding NDRU. I also think the tier is rich and the communities merging is a good idea, especially since it's far easier to get into NDRU if you're versed in RU and vice-versa compared to say Ubers UU and UU. I for one do not see any drawbacks including NDRU into RUGL.

Regarding undrafted slots: This is essentially a farm league, we don't need an undrafted slot in a tour that focuses on the RUPL undrafted playerbase. You can make a case for the other CA teamtour we'll have later in the year, but RUGL isn't the tour for these suggestions.

Regarding testing out stuff in older gens: These usually amount to nothing (see: Talonflame in SM RU). It's just annoying for players to prep and unless we are actually doing something with these tests (which I don't see happening), we should leave the tiers as they are. We don't need to redefine the tiers by banning X or unbanning Y; unless there is a strong sentiment of a suspect regarding a specific Pokemon we shouldn't entertain this option.

About undrafted slots: I don’t agree that this isn’t the type of tour that warrants it. There really is no difference between having an undrafted pool for RUGL vs RUBD, as long as they both don’t have custom avatar prizes, as I imagine the types of people that sign up will be similar. But, if the RU team tour feen is alluding to does have a custom prize, I would much rather have an undrafted pool in RUGL. Custom avatar tours are going to attract a more competitive signup pool of tour players who have played team tours before, while RUGL is more likely to include signups for people who don’t have as much team tour experience. It’s more important to pull in these people without team tour experience which can be partially solved by distributing the undrafted pool. In fact, I think that’s the point of the tour

I think hex’s point that just throwing these distributed players in an “undrafted” slot it a bit awkward is fair. The reason I like the undrafted Bo3 idea though is that it gives less weight and pressure for the undrafted players. I think it would be fine for the team these players end up on to put them in regular slots, though. Just that “undrafted” slots gives them a guaranteed slot to play.

 

[Adriyun]

Again the point isn't the tiers, but if we want to include tiers from other communities, it should be from ones connected to RU. Official tiers have strong ties to RU unlike ND, which is why I gave those two as examples. I'm not arguing for their inclusion. I think RUGL should stay RU tiers only.

well technically NDRU is an ru tier.. hehehe. I wouldn’t say ND and ru have a weak connection either tbf

 

[Oathkeeper]

Im fine with either the 5 SV slot or 4 SV slot format in option #2. I'd be willing to say the 4 SV format would be fun given the "fun" format that's mentioned is not a suspect slot. I'm starting to see those in other team tours and it feels like there's been controversy with adding slots like those (i.e. NU Glalie suspect slot for ADV tours).

 

[Astrø]

zamn i created discussion

 

[Heatranator]

zamn i created discussion

 

[feen]

About undrafted slots: I don’t agree that this isn’t the type of tour that warrants it. There really is no difference between having an undrafted pool for RUGL vs RUBD, as long as they both don’t have custom avatar prizes, as I imagine the types of people that sign up will be similar. But, if the RU team tour feen is alluding to does have a custom prize, I would much rather have an undrafted pool in RUGL. Custom avatar tours are going to attract a more competitive signup pool of tour players who have played team tours before, while RUGL is more likely to include signups for people who don’t have as much team tour experience. It’s more important to pull in these people without team tour experience which can be partially solved by distributing the undrafted pool. In fact, I think that’s the point of the tour

I think hex’s point that just throwing these distributed players in an “undrafted” slot it a bit awkward is fair. The reason I like the undrafted Bo3 idea though is that it gives less weight and pressure for the undrafted players. I think it would be fine for the team these players end up on to put them in regular slots, though. Just that “undrafted” slots gives them a guaranteed slot to play.

Cool but all of SV slots are technically undrafted, sure RUPL subs can play and maybe you can make one of the 4 SV slots an undrafted SV (you can discuss this!). I'm against adding anything bo3 in this tournament because bo3 in a farm league is pmuch a recipe for disaster.

Moving forward, I'm going to delete and potentially infract one-liners that serve little or no purpose to the discussion. Consider yourselves warned. Discuss in the RU discord and make constructive posts.

 

[zause]

Grow up and make a real argument, you play a hobby there is zero reason for elitism.

i'm literally a zu main lol have no reason to be elitist its aight tho ill explain. tbh itd be much better to have another ru tier or set of tiers that can translate to other ru tours like bo3 or even dpp ru if feeling spicy. if u want to add a tier that doesnt really translate, itd be much better to add lc ru or rubers for the reasons guldkatt said. tbh if we dont have the actual tiers to support 10 slots itd be much better to 5sv or go 8 imo. as a zu main, i have experience playing tours like umpl (2 slots of each um) where there is a disconnect between players due to the different playerbases. I and others strongly dislike this, and I think adding these unrelated tiers would hurt that. im p sure the only presence natdex ru has had on smogon is this money tour which is whatever really. pretty sure lc ru has had tours too. ive also personally found it very dissuading to get into natdex tiers bc u just see this big pool of like 700 or so mons with megas, and z-moves and get overwhelmed. while rugl is a big tour for me personally since i dont get drafted in rupl, it isnt as big as say ruwc which has a custom, and rupl for others so less motivation for really anyone to pick it up. not to be elitist, but the ideas of communities intertwining is really subpar as someone who has played such teamtours. (in fact its so bad im not signing up for umbd lol) (and no im not biased against these tours i won umpl it just sucked).

tldr; bo3 > 5 sv > 8 slots > fun tiers > bdsp lgpe and natdex ru bc at least RUbers and LC RU can create bonds between slam tiers and officals that the others can't because they are OMs and thus not as significant (not trying to sound elitist just how it is)

also just read feen's post not sure whats so bad about bo3 in farmers leagues as long as u just lock rupl starters out of it

 

[bumboclaat]

Again the point isn't the tiers, but if we want to include tiers from other communities, it should be from ones connected to RU. Official tiers have strong ties to RU unlike ND, which is why I gave those two as examples. I'm not arguing for their inclusion. I think RUGL should stay RU tiers only.

I’m beyond happy to see RU leadership give the opportunity for a ‘fun tier’ to get a bit of a spotlight. On the flip side, it has been irksome reading your posts throughout this thread denigrating NDRU and ND as a whole. Your attitude and arguments are frankly perplexing and one can only be left with the impression that you have some sort of bone to pick with ND/ NDRU rather than some principled opposition to NDRU’s inclusion in the tournament.

I’m an outsider that only keeps up with the RU forums and watches some tournament games when I have the time. My experience is limited to a few games on the ORAS ladder every now and then when that was the current gen. I sincerely hope that you are not representative of the RU community as that would be beyond disappointing.

Is there a disconnect between the ND and SV playerbase? Probably? Does there need to be? No. NDRU is as legitimate of an ‘RU’ tier as any other. It is simply the Pokémon that don’t have enough use to remain NDUU bar bans. If that doesn’t make a tier RU I’m not sure what does. One of the things I’d love to see across Smogon is more integration between the ND and SV playerbases. This doesn’t mean that the equivalent ND tier should be included in every tournament, but I’ll take every opportunity to advocate for ND tiers where their inclusion is appropriate.

In my experience NDRU does have an avid playerbase that would be more than capable of providing a solid pool. It has also been an enjoyable metagame to spectate, especially watching LBN shamone with Mega Pidgeot in NDBD every week. NDRU tier leadership can make a much better case than I can, so anything beyond this so that would be best done by them. Runo has said he will have a more comprehensive post up anyways.

The expansion to 10 slots with a ‘fun’ tier is a great idea imo and its wonderful to see RU lending their platform to some overlooked and / or underrepresented tiers. Obviously I’d prefer that slot goes to NDRU, but if the players and / or leaders of the other tiers make a compelling case that would be cool as well. I’m not one for tier bashing. Thanks to RU leadership for providing the opportunity.

 

[gulch]

is it at all possible that if we do 4sv we could do dpp ru or a bo3 slot? with the amount of signups i feel like a bo3 is sustainable, we have 5sv that way and it leads to some fun matches, we could even do it the way others have suggested and allow each team to pick a flex tier. dpp has less ground to stand on but the skeleton for the tier does exist, so i don't see too much reason not to include it that's not based on other options being better suited (which is fine). i don't really have much stake in this or care about anything but SM but wanted to at least bring up the topic

 

[zause]

wanted to jump back in here cuz i think some genuine points are getting misrepresented as "tier bashing" and "biased". as someone who has read guldkatt's posts, im not really sure how u could qualify that as "having a bone to pick". not to be rude, but this seems to be playing the victim when genuine criticism is being made. saying that machjacob is tierbashing because he prefers tiers other than your tier is kinda wild no offense. if anything ur tierbashing the other tiers by saying things like that. again not to be rude but calling NDRU as legitimate as any other tier is just not true. it is not official, whereas other RU tiers are barring ADV. it also doesnt see tournament play in the same circuit, let alone as much tournament play in general. (ru pentathlon and HFA are two tours with old gens). so yea i think some of these points are either being misunderstood or taken personally and thus being misrepresented as biased/tier bashing when they are not.

 

[Rarelyme]

Alright time to chip in. For starters, I won't pretend to know much about LC RU, RUbers or NDRU since I haven't had the chance to really engage with any of their respective communities. However, I read every single post in this thread in order to form a somewhat accurate representation of such communities and there are a few points I would like to give my opinion on.

- 10 slots is definitely the play seeing the amount of signups RUPL just add, Beraldo very confidently called it last year but RU has grown quite a bit and I think it's time to only consider 10 slots in our team tournaments, RUGL included despite its status of non-CA tournament.

- While RUGL was created as a farm league for RUPL, I think it would be reductive to not extend this status given how hype RUGL ended up being last year, to the point where it almost surpassed it in the Award of the best RU tournament of the year. I think RUGL should always keep the farm league's goal of being inclusive to newer players but should also be given the opportunity to find its identity beyond being a farm league. This is partly why we want to try new things out for this year's edition, like the naming convention for instance, and also why I think trying out a new tier format could be a good idea. I have nothing against 5 SV slots, I don't think it ending up being repetitive is an issue and SV is hype enough to provide a good show with 5 slots. However, it is only the second edition of this tournament and it is a good timing to try new things out. This tournament will eventually find its footing, but for it to be as refreshing as possible I think we should give a chance to at least one marginalized tier and see how it does in the RUGL setting.

- I understand the alternative of the "undrafted pool", however I can't say I'm sold. The idea to warrant a spot to players who possibly haven't engaged at all in the community or have made no effort to be drafted seems very flawed to me. If you deserve to be drafted within the amount of slot available, then you should always be drafted. A format where the players in the undrafted pool have the opportunity to face in a series of special SV RU live tours to determine who gets a spot would for instance be more appealing to me than just choosing people randomly. Anyway, RUGL's managers will be players who know the community very well which will limit, if not suppress, the possibility that deserving players don't end up drafted. Add to this the fact that the tournament will probably be bigger this year which also reduces this possibility. Since the tournament will be more inclusive than last year, this kind of slots is just not needed in my opinion.

- Now about what tier it should be. I think the argument that LC and Ubers have more ties to RU than NatDex is fair but far from supreme for a tournament like RUGL. Hopefully, this tournament features a good amount of new heads who haven't played in a team tour setting before so talking about official tournaments sounds like quite a big jump. Now I agree with Goldcat's point when he says that communities are more relevant than the actual tiers here when talking about the last slot. This thread is a great way to gauge the involvement of the communities that could be included in the tournament so on that NDRU clearly stands out. This, alongside the fact that the tier has seen some interest from people already in the "main" RU community makes me think it's the best choice as of now. Hopefully, more people from the three tiers in contention (or others) take this chance to speak out so we have more information to go from. So yeah ultimately, the communities' involvement is the most important factor to me.

Finally, as a forum moderator this time, please keep in mind that the deciding group in the end are adults which means that a level-headed post featuring structured arguments in a respectful tone will get your point across way better than an impulsive response or an accusing tone, which will on the contrary only hurt the argument you are trying to make. Be comprehensive, state your case without belittling the others, it's really not that difficult.

 

[Tuthur]

5 SV seems fine.

The main problem with the "fun slot" is that it sounds more like an isolated slot. The suggested tiers have nothing in common with the RU community or even the broader lower tier community. There are a lot of arguments made in more or less good faith on why their favorite tier deserves more a spot than the other ones, but the truth is that it seems like none fit particularly well in the tournament because of the lack of playerbase overlap. The only thing ND RU, BDSP RU, LC RU, LGPE RU, and RUbers share with the other RUGL tiers is a naming convention.

When I think of a fun slot, I think of something that could interest the RU playerbase, not something that only attracts outsiders. I feel like something like SV RU x OM (like AAA, STAB, MnM) or even SV RUBL would fit this kind of tournaments better. If there is no interest for such formats, then 5 SV seems like the best.

Those were just my 2 cents as a lower tier envoyer whos looking forward RUGL but not particularly involved in RU. All in all, any format is probably going to work because this is a fun tournament with low stakes, and there is no need to get so defensive and aggressive on the last tier selection.

 

[Charmriah]

Hey yall, I just wanted to take a second and advocate for dpp RU, it’s truly amazing how on dpp lower tiers are almost like the gold standard of excellence in most tiers.
So I’m gonna be the one to say I think DPP RU deserves the chance to finally get the support it needs. I know you may be hung up on other tiers and wondering why am I even speaking.
But, I like seeing tiers flourish and grow. Seeing how ADV RU just bloomed gives me great hope that DPP would finally come to the forefront. I think out of the options here for a “fun slot” I think this one stands out to me a lot. I don’t really like putting down other tiers to uplift one so instead I think it needs the most love out of all of them. That’s all thank you!

 

[AM]

I would be more interested if there was a cutoff change for dpp ru, perhaps higher/lower cutoff based on UU/NU? Playing it felt like I was just playing NU with just a couple of extra mons and at that point I would just play NU. I think the extra slot should either go to exploring this more or Natdex for most of the reasons Runo mentioned previously in their post.

 

[BloodAce]

When considering what to do with final slot, I believe a 5th SV slot or something like a bo3 slot makes the most sense. The idea of crossover with other communities is a nice idea on paper but doesn't really align with the purpose of this tournament. The ethos of this tournament, as I understand it at least, is more so to give new or lesser experienced RU community members, particularly those who didn't get drafted in RUPL, a chance to shine and prove themselves in a lower stakes tournament. The idea is this can give them experience in RU tiers that can potentially translate to later participation in other RU team tours like RUWC, RUBD, RUPL, etc down the line if they do well enough, as we have seen happen since last RUGL. Another SV slot or even a Bo3 best accomplishes this to give players exposure to some of RU's core metagames in a competitive setting, helping them develop the skills and experience necessary for future RU team tournaments. Undrafted Bo3 or some variation could be interesting too, I'm sure the details could be worked out.

These other "fun tier" slot ideas like Natdex RU, LC RU, BDSP RU, Ubers RU, etc are ultimately insular, niche products of their respective communities (to varying degrees) and don't have a meaningful connection to RU's infrastructure. A player doing well in one of those tiers for instance won't have any potential continuity to future RU team tours. As other's have argued, this slot would be isolated due to lack of player base overlap. I say this as someone who enjoyed playing Natdex RU previously but still recognize that it simply doesn't align with the purpose of this tour. I'll also say that some of these arguments have gotten quite personal, hostile, and defensive. There is a disconnect present in calling someone's opinions on what slot they prefer as "tier bashing" while arguably tier bashing other tiers in the same post but I'll leave it at that.

 

[lighthouses]

probably not worth anything at this point but if we are to follow the train of thought that stuff like ndru is too outside of rus community(which is fair and i agree with) i think its a real shame that we seem to be the only lower tier without a proper dpp metagame
this tour could provide a good opportunity to maybe try and retier that metagame and see what changes we could possibly make like changing cutoffs and stuff like that to better distinguish it from dpp nu, im not sure on that one but it just feels bad not having a dpp tier
oras ru is sadly hated by all the people who dont understand it but it is a fact that the banlist for that tier makes very little sense, some things in there were banned on completely different metas and if a serious discussion can be held within like a 'oras ru council' of sorts to figure out what should be possibly retested could be a good thing. it doesnt really matter how much me and others like feli know that oras ru is a fantastic metagame if people just arent signing up to play it in tours like rupl, maybe a changed format for this tournament could be a means to inspire others to signup for oras and try it out here and potentially even make improvements to the tier. i feel the same way about bw ru too, in fact its no secret i think bw ru is the worst old gen and in desperate need of some tiering but i feel like the sentiment for these things in general is just 'eh lets not do anything' but its a thought
personally i think we should so something over just having 5 sv to give this tour some sort of reason for existing other than being a 'farm league' seeing as how people have sentiments like 'if youre not good enough to be drafted to this you dont deserve it' imo this tour needs some sort of identity to justify its existence, with rubd as well we would have 3 ru team tournaments with this which can be saturating and exhausting

 

[Runo]

I deleted my prior post because clearly it's not worth keeping up if users are only seeing the anger and not the points being made in the post or misinterpreting them because I'm angry. Yes I took the statements made in this thread personally because a large chunk of them are just not correct and inflammatory. Posts such as heatranator's that argue playerbase concerns are points of conjecture that can be argued for or against, I can have a discussion on why I disagree with this opinion and understand why I and others might be overestimating NDRU's playerbase. I cannot have a proper and respectful debate against something that is inherently untrue though. Surely viewers of this thread can sympathize with me being frustrated at untrue statements.

"NatDex is an OM"

This is wrong, NatDex is not an OM. OMs by definition have one or two major rules and sticks to that ruleset no matter what. NatDex can be more "tailored" when forging their identity. NatDex is a thought experiment of if dexit never existed, that requires us to answer certain questions that most other tiers will never have to ask as I mentioned in this post. If we really wanted to be pedantic here then it would be a Solomod technically, but calling it an OM is just discrediting actual OMs like AAA and Stabmons. Unfortunately it seems I was on the nose with the statement I made regarding NatDex's isolation being by design but I'm hopeful that one day we can at least be given inclusion in less serious tours such as this if we don't get this opportunity now.

e: Even if this statement was true, why does this give it any ground to exclude it from the tour? The entire argument stems from the idea that because it's a NatDex tier it should be put in a worse standing to the point of considering it equal to very clearly less active tiers. How is this not elitism? If we had to result to making statements like these rather than make comments on its playerbase or metagame health it's clear that we're arguing in bad faith.

"NatDex has an overwhelming amount of things to account for"

Copy paste with edits from the old post but like all other metagames, not all pokemon are going to be viable or even functional in a tier. To compare official RU tiers with NatDex:
SM RU has 85 viable pokemon
SS RU has 99 viable pokemon
SV RU has 95 viable pokemon
ND RU has 93 viable pokemon

The pool of threats one has to account for doesn't exponentially rise for NatDex tiers this is a common myth. The top heaviness of how a lot of tiers function will inherently lower the pool of viable threats you have to deal with. You aren't going to be seriously using a shitter like Medicham in a game of SV RU, the same applies to NatDex RU as well. You just don't account for the irrelevant mons as they are naturally prepped for more often than not. Megas, Z-moves, Movepool additions, etc are all things that make NatDex RU a unique tier, a tier that you can't simply learn right off the rip just how like I cannot play a game of SV RU off the rip and immediately have expert knowledge on how to build and watch out for metagame interactions.

"NatDex has no activity on smogon"

This is also incorrect. If one were to peruse on over to the NatDex section, you would be able to see the activity for yourself. NatDex had its money tour yes, but it's also ran other tours such as its two seasonals with a lot of positive reception overall. It has also been included in NatDex PL three years in a row now, soon to be a fourth, while also being included in NatDex Blind Draft in addition to it being seen in non-sectional tours such as MSPL twice in a row now. Fact of the matter is that this is a tier that doesn't just exist on paper only, there is a real community here.

"NatDex has the same activity/forum presence/value/etc as LC RU and Ubers RU"
"NatDex has worse activity/forum presence/etc"

Now see this could've been plausible but upon checking the forum presence of both tiers myself and comparing it to NatDex, NatDex RU clearly takes home the gold here. It has more tournament opportunities than both being featured in tournaments such as National Dex Premier League, National Dex Grand Slam, and National Dex Blind Draft as was just said in the above paragraph while neither LC RU or Ubers RU get this treatment for their own respective sections. They don't even have a thread on the forums while NatDex RU has its own sub-forum and its own teambuilder on Pokemon Showdown.

To respond to the people calling me the real tierbasher, these are just basic facts that are easy to check. This is not targeting the tier for existing, this is clearly referring to playerbase concerns. When I refuted Machjacob's post and somewhat Goldcat's, my statements were charged but it was to point out the hypocrisy in specifically targeting NatDex when other tiers have "concept issues" (I don't know what to call this mentality really fr why is "OM" = bad an argument) that clearly don't align with a traditional RU tier. I even made this clear here. It is not tier bashing to point out this hypocrisy and neither is saying they have playerbase concerns. I fail to see how calling out the faulty logic of "LC RU and Ubers RU can generate worthwhile connections with official LC and Ubers" is tier bashing either. Not every Ubers RU player is going to play Ubers OU, same for LC players, thus it is more valuable to look at these tiers under the lens of if they can can actually field 8 slots without controversy instead of adding them for more "political reasons". This what I meant by those slots "trolling the tour" mb about the misinterpretation.

There is something to be said about wanting to set a tour identity, such as making a tour specifically so newcomers / undrafted users have a chance to prove themselves. If this is something that this community heavily wants to do then by all means just keep tiers that are allowed in RUPL/BD only instead of having fun tiers all together. I can also see arguments for giving DPP another chance but otherwise what is the purpose in saying things such as "LC and Ubers have a better chance of forming connections than NatDex" when support for NatDex has been seen from the common player to an RU tier leader? We should not disregard the amount of popularity NatDex has compared to those tiers especially when we are talking about building connections.

 

[diegoyuhhi]

ok i couldn’t care less for natdex ru drama but i wanted to tune in here to advocate for lgpe ru :)
i will most likely be the only one to support this tier, but i really wanted to make this post cause i think it deserves some recognition

lgpe ru was only just recently born, with the latest edition of lgpl in october of last year being the first official tour with the tier included, and it really pushed a lot of meta development. me, eve, guldkatt, radu, ttk, teh, and many other players were involved in trying to figure out what is good and what isn't, and after the pre-tour ban of mega zard y the tier has shaped up to be one of the most fun tiers i've played in recent memory. here you can check out posts which players in the tour made about the tier.

lgpe ru is fast paced while still having enough defensive pieces to not make it a hyper offense hell; it rewards good building and good clicking basically equally, with both long-term planning and short-term decisions playing a very important role in the latter.
it doesn't feel matchup fishy in the slightest, with most matchups being at worst a 55-45 or 60-40 in favour of either player, which can practically always be overcome if ending up with the short end of the stick.
it has enough mons to be able to provide variety and potential for creativity in the builder without feeling too repetitive, while also not having so many that it feels impossible to handle everything.
hax is of course present (as it is in every tier, we cannot remove that from the game) but it isn't that impactful, and more often than not it's not going to completely swing the result of games; admittedly the only semi-relevant exception is jynx with its 75% accurate lovely kiss which can put checks to sleep and beat them longterm, but its frailty + rocks weakness + middling speed tier make it not that consistent at pulling it off.
it's incredibly easy to pick up, most of the players who played the tier in lgpl had never touched it and yet we were quickly able to figure out what was good and what wasn't and how to build functional teams; now that the tier has seen even more development, i would think that things have gotten even easier for newcomers.
it's a great experience, very exciting and a lot of fun, both when playing and when spectating, you can check out some replays here to see it with your own eyes.

is it more of a lgpe tier than a ru tier? yes, absolutely. is it pretty disconnected from the rest of ru? for sure. but with stuff like uubers being in uufpl, and more and more rby lower tiers (which admittedly have more to do with rby than with the specific lower tier) being inserted in various lower tiers team tours, i don't really see why that would be a problem.

anyway these were just my two cents. i sincerely don't see much more support coming for this tier being much more niche than some of the bigger guys being discussed like natdex ru and shit, but i feel like it was worth giving it a shout. check it out if you can, and even if it doesn't get enough support for this tour i personally wouldn't write it off for future ru team tours :)

 

[Fernanch]

Hey. I saw the discussions that happened here past 2 days, and I want to talk about some things that I realized.

Besides all the nat dex controversy, I saw a lot of people advocating to a bo3 slot and a 5 sv slots. To that, I say that we should consider better the fun slot options, let me explain why

So, the argument that I saw about not having a fun slot was so that the newer players that already play ru will have a chance to shine, either with the 5th sv or the bo3 slot

My issue is that this tour will already have a lot of newer players, and I am very certain that all the rising faces of the community will be able to fit on the 4 sv slots, since we already have rupl going, and most likely very few players that are already playing there will be taking part here.

And adding a bo3 slot might be an issue for teams, since the bo3 slot will most likely be having the best player of the team, and the few players that come from the rupl to here might play there, which would take away the spot with the most attention in the tour.

And, if we have bo3 or 5 sv, the tour will be way too similar to the rupl tiers, which could cause a lack of interest in the tour, since, remind you, we are In the middle of the rupl.

So, with all that said, I am against bo3 and 5 sv. I do think that we need to give a chance to a "fun slot". Ofc my main support for that, as I mentioned before, is lcru for reasons I listed before, but I do think any of the tier options are good inclusions.

Anyways, thanks for reading, I do hope people that are supporting 5 SV or bo3 do not take this as an attack to them, please correct me if you disagree with my opinions, and have a good day

 

[feen]

As I’ve mentioned before, bo3 slots in a farm league isn’t something we’re considering currently, so please stop advocating for it.

 

[Eve]

ok i couldn’t care less for natdex ru drama but i wanted to tune in here to advocate for lgpe ru :)
i will most likely be the only one to support this tier, but i really wanted to make this post cause i think it deserves some recognition

lgpe ru was only just recently born, with the latest edition of lgpl in october of last year being the first official tour with the tier included, and it really pushed a lot of meta development. me, eve, guldkatt, radu, ttk, teh, and many other players were involved in trying to figure out what is good and what isn't, and after the pre-tour ban of mega zard y the tier has shaped up to be one of the most fun tiers i've played in recent memory. here you can check out posts which players in the tour made about the tier.

lgpe ru is fast paced while still having enough defensive pieces to not make it a hyper offense hell; it rewards good building and good clicking basically equally, with both long-term planning and short-term decisions playing a very important role in the latter.
it doesn't feel matchup fishy in the slightest, with most matchups being at worst a 55-45 or 60-40 in favour of either player, which can practically always be overcome if ending up with the short end of the stick.
it has enough mons to be able to provide variety and potential for creativity in the builder without feeling too repetitive, while also not having so many that it feels impossible to handle everything.
hax is of course present (as it is in every tier, we cannot remove that from the game) but it isn't that impactful, and more often than not it's not going to completely swing the result of games; admittedly the only semi-relevant exception is jynx with its 75% accurate lovely kiss which can put checks to sleep and beat them longterm, but its frailty + rocks weakness + middling speed tier make it not that consistent at pulling it off.
it's incredibly easy to pick up, most of the players who played the tier in lgpl had never touched it and yet we were quickly able to figure out what was good and what wasn't and how to build functional teams; now that the tier has seen even more development, i would think that things have gotten even easier for newcomers.
it's a great experience, very exciting and a lot of fun, both when playing and when spectating, you can check out some replays here to see it with your own eyes.

is it more of a lgpe tier than a ru tier? yes, absolutely. is it pretty disconnected from the rest of ru? for sure. but with stuff like uubers being in uufpl, and more and more rby lower tiers (which admittedly have more to do with rby than with the specific lower tier) being inserted in various lower tiers team tours, i don't really see why that would be a problem.

anyway these were just my two cents. i sincerely don't see much more support coming for this tier being much more niche than some of the bigger guys being discussed like natdex ru and shit, but i feel like it was worth giving it a shout. check it out if you can, and even if it doesn't get enough support for this tour i personally wouldn't write it off for future ru team tours :)

real and true

lgpe ru is pretty awesome, i vastly prefer it to lgpe uu* and it's a tier we plan to continue to develop through vr-based shifts and tiering action where needed. diego covers that stuff fairly comprehensively above so i won't repeat his words, i will say that we're currently considering axing sleep

also

- A tier who's section only retains activity when Eve is active by self-admission (LGPE)

people still turn up to play, having a lack of hosts doesn't mean there aren't players. also i didn't host lgpl which was the debut of this format and was a successful tournament. feels a bit unfair to value lgpe ru as a tier on whether lgpe has tournament hosts