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Sableye (analysis)

I certainly understand your point, and all the points that you've listed are valid. The main problem with the Trick set is that Sableye is just a terrible pokemon(other than it's incredible ability). Most players won't switch their walls in on a Sableye, because it's common knowledge(or becoming common knowledge) that Sableye carries Taunt, WoW/Toxic, and Recover.
Although Tricking a lagging tail or something along those lines to sweeper can be devastating, this means that Sableye will not likely use Trick again, and a valuable moveslot is wasted. Basically, my main issue with the Trick set is that running Trick makes Sableye taunt bait. Sableye has to have WoW, Recover, and Taunt in order to function. If Sableye encounters a Heatran, it has no reliable way of dealing damage to it.
This is all just theory, as I haven't tested the set myself.
 
Poppycock said:
mention magic mirror pokes completely destroying all sets except CM
Click to expand...
Ummmm.....

Assuming standard "Dual Screen" 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe Timid Espeon:

Sableye@Leftovers (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Foul Play vs Espeon (252/4 EVs, Neutral Nature): 58.1% ~ 68.9% (194 ~ 230 HP) <or> around 29.1% ~ 34.5% if behind a Reflect.

Night shade does 29.9% regardless.

Assuming "OU Dual Screens" 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD Impish Xatu.

Sableye@Leftovers (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Foul Play vs Xatu (252/104 EVs, +Nature): 50.9% ~ 61.1% (170 ~ 204 HP) <or> around 25.5% - 30.5% behind Reflect.

Night Shade does the same 29.9% to Xatu.

So not quite, depending on your attacking move of choice, and the Bouncer you used it against.

And you make excellent points as well, Sir. I just wanted to make sure they were highlighted so it could be included in the analysis. Heatran does have the tenancy to eat Sableye alive... One tihng though that has happened a few rimes for me is what a monster this guy is against stall teams. There have been several battles (around the 1200 ranking mark, so take it or leave it) that I have lead with Sableye, never switched out, and won the battle. Also, while a wall might not directly switch in other than Tran, you can still cripple them if you time correctly. Entry hazard stacking helps too to discourage non-floating walls (unless floaters have suddenly been given an Iron Ball ^-^) constantly switching out of Sableye.
 
Sableye will never really be Taunt bait as 1) you shouldn't be switching into taunt anyways (and it'll probably be useless regardless of if it has an attacking move) and 2) priority taunt other taunters, lol
 
i've seen this buzzing around a lot, and it really destroys more bulky type of teams and stall. Usually a strong special type attacker can string hits on it and force it out if that version doesn't have confuse ray. Either way this thing is really annoying and a good pokemon for this metagame.
 
I think each of your sets should look exactly like the ones seen in Sableye's UU analysis. They're clean and succinct, and the sets pretty much cover everything Sableye can do in OU too.

So:

[SET]
name: Prankster
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Recover
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Night Shade / Foul Play
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

  • Taunt is too important on Sableye. Mention Toxic in AC if anything, don't slash it.
  • Rename the set "prankster" as seen above.
[SET]
name: Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: Recover
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Night Shade / Toxic
item: Iron Ball / Lagging Tail
ability: Prankster
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

  • Again, Taunt is too important of a move for it to be slashed with anything. The status options were regulated to the last slot.
[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Dark
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

  • That's fine as-is. It's "Will-O-Wisp," though, not Will-o-Wisp.
Lastly, mention Heatran in counters, as it pretty much walls most Sableye sets. Also add Gliscor, since with Poison Heal active, it doesn't mind Will-O-Wisp, and can force you to switch.

When those changes are made I'll give this an approval!

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 
um slash WoW before Night Shade on the Trick set (Bloo originally had it with Night Shade first but he edited his post because he's gay)
Slash Confuse Ray with Night Shade/Foul Play in the first set

QC Approved (2/3)

Hey man whats up LOL
 
Just piping in again with the Calm>Careful thing. Yes, it's situational, but Calm is more beneficial to Sableye overall than Careful since it reduces Confusion and Struggle damage Sableye does to itself thanks to the -Atk part. Careful does nothing to help Sableye in that regard (outside the +SpD of course). Since Sableye isn't ever using its own Attack stat, you might as well lower it to as low as it can to to minimize that damage.
 
What might that QC team think of that Calm>Careful thing? I would think it's the most logical nature overall. Also, what are opinions for this guy on the Night Shade vs Foul Play issue? Foul Play allows it to KO things like Gengar, Reuniclus and Alakazam - whom Sableye can wall except LO Gengar - much faster, furthering its niche. Opinions?

(Although to admit, this is also kinda to bump this thread and remind people it exists...)
 
Seth Vilo said:
Also, what are opinions for this guy on the Night Shade vs Foul Play issue? Foul Play allows it to KO things like Gengar, Reuniclus and Alakazam - whom Sableye can wall except LO Gengar - much faster, furthering its niche. Opinions?

(Although to admit, this is also kinda to bump this thread and remind people it exists...)
Click to expand...

Considering how bad Sableye's Attack is, especially when uninvested, Foul Play is better.

Also, this has already gone through QC with Foul Play having a slash in the Prankster set and Night Slash not mentioned anywhere. Foul Play > Night Slash is QC official.

[EDIT] I misread Night Shade in this quote as Night Slash. Ignore this post
 
What does Sableye's bad Attack have to do with Foul Play? Foul Play just uses the opponent's Attack, not the difference of the two.

I should have specified; I meant specifically the benefits of one over the other. If accounts of people's experiences were to appear in this thread (in addition to the Sableye thread in Dragonspiral), Scorpio could use it in the written analysis. I'm thinking calcs for Foul Play could be helpful, which I would be happy to provide if so desired. And according to what I see on Bloo's post and the analysis, it's more Night Shade > Foul Play or Night Shade = Foul Play, not Foul Play > Night Shade. After using both versions extensively, I think that Night Shade (not Night Slash) is a bit less effective than Foul Play. Again, it allows Sableye to 2HKO Alakazam and Reuniclus - even with them running -Atk natures and 0 Atk IV's.

Trying to revive this and spark helpful discussion.
 
Delete Insert Comments/Reasons

[Overview]

<p>While Sableye has been considered a mediocre Pokemon in past generations, it has recieved a godsend from the Dream World in the form of Prankster, an ability that gives +1 priority to all non-damaging moves. Not only is it the only Ghost-type with Prankster, but it is also the only Pokemon with this ability that has access to Recover and Will-o-Wisp. Add to this the fact that Sableye is immune to five priority moves and you have an insanely annoying Pokemon that can cripple entire teams -- if the opponent doesn't quit beforehand. However, despite these perks, it is still an all-around mediocre Pokemon outside of Prankster, with none of its' base stats exceeding 75. Furthermore, Sableye can really only switch safely into a select few Pokemon, like Gengar or Skarmory. This is moved from later on in your analysis where I felt the sentence didn't really fit. However, Sableye is still a Pokemon you can trust to perform its job well otherwise, doesn't make sense; why would you trust a Pokemon? on your team. </p>


[SET]
name: Prankster
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Recover
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Night Shade / Foul Play / Confuse Ray
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set was is rest of analysis is written in present tense designed abuse Prankster and the priority it provides to the fullest extent. Will-o-Wisp is the primary move on this set, crippling most many perhaps most physical threats, but not Pokemon in general Pokemon and effectively shutting down many physical sweepers. Priority Recover will helps present tense prevent Sableye from being 2HKO'ed and is a must on this set. Taunt completely shuts down many Pokemon, such as walls and boosting sweepers, and, being faster than most Taunts, can prevent you from being Taunted yourself. Taunt is useful because it can completely shut down many walls and boosting sweepers. Furthermore, Taunt has the added benefit of preventing Sableye from being Taunted with some prediction; Sableye's Prankster means it almost always Taunts first. Original was a run-on sentence that was convoluted and confusing. Separating it into two sentences fixes your issue. Last moveslot can prevent Sableye from becoming potential Taunt bait. Doesn't actually mean anything. The paragraph sounds better without this sentence. Besides, you just talked about how Sableye will almost never be Taunted because of Priority Taunt. The choice for the final move is a matter of preference: Night Shade will deals present tense consistant damage, while Foul Play can hit opponents with high Attack hard, making it useful against physical sweepers, and Confuse Ray can be used to cripple opponents even further. is a more effective option against Pokemon with a high Attack stat. Confuse ray is a third option which can further cripple an opponent's Pokemon. The original sentence is another run-on that is confusing and hard to understand. This clears it up while providing a clear comparison between the three possible moves. </p>



[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>This set makes for a great spinblocker, crippling many Rapid Sspinneres "spinners" is simpler, and Starmie isn't crippled by anything this set has to offer, so only many is used so they can't hit back as hard. Saybleye can only really switch in to a few select Pokemon, like Gengar or Skarmory. Toxic can be used instead of Will-O-Wisp if you prefer Toxic's gradual increase in damage, but you will need to be wary of Steel- and Poison-types. Mean Look can be used in the third or fourth moveslot to trap physical attackers and beat them one-on-one. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Def could be used for a more dedicated physical sweeper stopper check to physical sweepers this is a more formal and easier-to-understand way to say what you were trying to say.</p>

[SET]

name: Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: Recover
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Night Shade / Toxic
item: Iron Ball / Lagging Tail
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set uses Prankster to bypass the Lagging Tail / Iron Ball Speed drop. Trick is the primary move, in order to cripple opposing sweepers / walls with Lagging Tail or the Iron Ball by slowing them down immensely otherwise, for someone who is not used to the uncommon items, this may sound strange. Recover is for healing any damage done to Sableye while it Trickings this is grammatically correct the opponent. Taunt can be used to further cripple opponents, especially walls stop walls and support Pokemon in their tracks you use "cripple" far too much. The last move is a choice between Night Shade for damaging consistent but low damage to opponents or Will-o-Wisp/ or "/" is too informal Toxic to cripple the opponent even further wear down opponents these changes make it clear why you'd chose each option.</p>



[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>This set works well with Pokemon that benefit from slowing down the elimination or crippling of not many Pokemon benefit directly from them slowing down, but can thrive if they are eliminated or put out of action threats like Alakazam or Gengar. Confuse Ray can work in the fourth moveslot in place of Will-o-Wisp or Toxic to lower the chanses an opponent will attack while you set up otherwise, why?. The choice between Iron Ball and Lagging Tail is a matter of which sort of Pokemon you want to cripple; Lagging Tail always makes the holder move last in its priority bracket and therefore is best if you have slow Pokemonm of your own, while Iron Ball grounds fliers and halves the holder's speed and so is best for grounding Tricking onto Flying-types or Levitating opponents;. These explain what each item does specifically (I had to look them up) and also explains why each item should be used over the other. Altogether, this is also a run-on sentence and no sentence can have two semicolons. Skarmory and Gengar in particular and hit super-effectively by Ground-type moves with an Iron Ball. Iron Ball is particularly effective when it is Tricked onto Pokemon like Skarmory and Gengar who lose their immunity for a weakness to the Ground type. Rewording and this follows on from the last sentence much better.</p>

[SET]

name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Dark
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is Sableye's best attempt at a sweeping set. While you are setting up, you should alternate between Recover and Calm Mind to make sure you aren't KO'ed. be sure to have an almost-full HP bar (refreshed by Recover) when you Calm Mind to avoid being KO'ed. You shouldn't always alternate between Recover and CM, just enough so you always CM when you have a almost-full HP bar. Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Dark are your STAB options for this set, being the strongest Special STABs Sableye has. are Sableye's best STAB moves (Dark Pulse is illegal with Prankster); one should be chosen for the set to ensure sweeping capability while also making use of Prankster. This clears up why Dark Pulse isn't chosen and why only one STAB is used. Will-O-Wisp is for physical sweepers that may attempt to stop your own sweep, while Hidden Power Fighting provides perfect coverage with Shadow Ball.</p>



[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>You can't use Hidden Power Fighting and Hidden Power Dark on the same moveset, obviously, so if you run Hidden Power Dark you're going to have to use Will-o-Wisp. Toxic can be used instead of Will-o-Wisp, but you leave yourself more vulnerable to physical attacks. Hazard support is useful for wearing down any Pokemon that switches in, helping Sableye take them opposition "them" is vague out more easily.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Sableye has several options for moves other than the ones listed. Fake Out and Shadow Sneak can be used for free and priority damage respectively, but they are rather weak, especially with Sableye's relatively weak undesireable you used weak twice in the same sentence base 75 Attack. Priority Sunny Day / Rain Dance can make Sableye a backup weather setter, making it useful in the weather wars, however this role is better carried out by Tornadus in the rain (who also has access to Prankster) and Heatran in the sun (who is much more bulky alternative) otherwise, why wasn't this listed as a set if it has no downside?. Priority Ssubstitute just to make sure we don't forget! could be used to prevent status and/or Toxic stall the opponent, not grammatically necessary and is more useful combined with Leftovers and Recover, however Sableye's poor stats make this option unattractive else, why wasn't it listed as a set?. Rapid Spinners are good teammates for Sableye, as they can get rid of Toxic Spikes, which Sableye dreads. As a last note, don't use Keen Eye, and never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever use Stall Sableye's other ability, Keen Eye, should never be used next to Prankster because this is Sableye's only saving grace -- its stats are downright horrible clearer and more formal.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Faster Pokemon with Prankster, such as Wimsicott or Tornadus, can Taunt Sableye, pretty much forcing a switch. Sableye_also has mediocre defenses and any strong attacker that hasn't been previously crippled can 2HKO or even OHKO it. Heracross is a notable example as it doesn't mind Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, and Toxic and can OHKO Sableye. Heatran also pretty much walls most sets, being immune to both Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Gliscor and Breloom with Poison Heal is are also immune to status, which can force you to switch.</p>
Click to expand...
I also just have a few excess comments that aren't grammar related:

1. Toxic doesn't nail anything Will-O-Wisp doesn't as far as I can see, and therefore should never be considered.
2. Third set -- why is HP Dark ever considered over Shadow Ball?
3. I think I caught them all, but a couple times you misspelled "Sableye" as "Saybleye," so you might want to read through again and double check me.
4. You cite Heracross at some point as a Poke who doesn't mind status and can OHKO Sableye. Perhaps you should choose an OU Poke for an OU analysis? Whimsicott is here too.

Feel free to choose to keep any, all, or none of my suggestions -- you probably know Sableye a lot better than I do!
 
Scorpio, a few comments:

Firstly, when this analysis is written up, you need to post in the GP Queue so official GP checkers know to start checking it. I've already done this for you for now, just - for future reference. :)

Secondly, this analysis is too short, and I don't think it's quite ready for GP checks yet. In particular, all ADDITIONAL COMMENTS sections need to be expanded with explanations of the EV spreads and choice of nature and item in the first paragraph, and a few suggested teammates in the second. For example, the EV spread used in the first two analyses seems pretty specific; what attacks is it designed to survive? And in the third set, considering you're already using Will-O-Wisp, why still run max defensive investment? (Not disputing it - just pointing out that it might need more explanation.) As for suggested teammates, for instance, if holding Iron Ball, the Trick set could work well with mons like Landorus, and so on.

Lastly, a few nitpicks: there's no line break between the [SET] tag and the first move, but there IS a break between [SET COMMENTS] and the following paragraph. Same goes for [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (line break needed), and [Counters] is [Checks and Counters].

P.S. GP checkers will probably get this, but to make life easier for them, all mentions of 'like' in this analysis should be 'such as'. The convention is '2HKOed' / 'KOed', 'SpD' (not Sp Def), 'Will-O-Wisp', and it's spelt 'Whimsicott'. :]

eta: the C&C Analysis Formatting Guide will probably help :)
 
Placeholder for GP check

EDIT: Dammit, didn't see there was a second page, just disregard this completely. Ignore the placeholder, too
 
Okay, I've done what sirndpt said and am halfway done with Salemsectra's changes. I will edit this when I finish, which will probably be Thursday.

EDIT: Done and ready for GP checks.
 
Basically reiterating what sirndpt said:
The Set Comments on the second and third set, and the Additional Comments on all three sets needs to be expanded upon.
In the Set Comments, talk about why the move is being used and what it hits. In the Additional Comments talk about viable teammates for the set. Go in-depth with the AC. Right now, some of them are just too skimpy. Once you expand the sections, I'll give this a check.
 
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