That's because both mons are shite. If you have ever played (Balanced)Hackmons, Almost Any Ability or metas like that you would know that Magic Bounce is one of the best abilities in the whole game.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Sableye
- Thread starter farranpoison
- Start date
- Status
If megalye turns out to be any good, m-gardivoir and clefable will have a field day. While azumaril may drop in favour as the fairy of choice for teams just looking for a fairy(it's got no business switching into a bulky wil o wisp user, se stab or not).
Yes, and neither of those Bouncers can take a hit for shit, nor do they have a decent way to either heal or gain Pseudo Bulk with burns (no Espeon ever runs Morning Sun). Hell, Espeon only works on BP, where other mons have to do the boosting for it.
Mega Sableye has better typing and (almost certainly) better bulk than either of the two, not to mention (compared to Mega Absol) it can make use of its base form for priority recovery, spreading Burns on Physical Attackers, and/or priority boosting (patches up Special bulk if using CM).
And Foul Play wouldn't be totally useless. If Sableye chose to run it, it gives it a Pseudo-Mixed Attacking Option, since enemy burns don't drop the attack power. Mandibuzz can use STAB Foul Play already (though it's full defensive), but unlike Sableye, it has no way to present its own offensive presence, and Sableye can spread burns in its base form to ease switching in, only further aided by the Defense boost.
On the contrary, I think Sableye could actually pull games similar to some Gyarados sets, playing its base form until it needs to Mega evolve, be it setting up or shutting down Pokemon so its teammates can punch holes. Unlike Gyarados, Sableye is a bit harder to shut down in a sweep, since it wouldn't care about Intimidate, Magic Bounce avoids Status from Pranksters like Gyarados and Zard-X have to have dealt with first, and it has two spammable STAB options.
Might not shoot up to S-Rank, but it gives Sableye's opponents new options to be prepared for, and does allow some maybe gimmicky but some effective ways to toy with the two niches.
If Mega Sableye were to be used as a Pseudo-Mixed Attacker of sorts, am I right in guessing this would be the set to sue?
Sableye @ Sableyite
Prankster > Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef?
Nature: Calm? Sassy? Modest? Quiet? No way to know for sure until the stats are known.
- Shadow Ball
- Foul Play
- Dazzling Gleam
- Will-O-Wisp/Recover/Calm Mind
It's at least what I intend to try out once the games come out. I'm still bummed we didn't get a bulkier Prankster Sableye, but I'm hopeful Mega Sableye will work out well.
Sableye @ Sableyite
Prankster > Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef?
Nature: Calm? Sassy? Modest? Quiet? No way to know for sure until the stats are known.
- Shadow Ball
- Foul Play
- Dazzling Gleam
- Will-O-Wisp/Recover/Calm Mind
It's at least what I intend to try out once the games come out. I'm still bummed we didn't get a bulkier Prankster Sableye, but I'm hopeful Mega Sableye will work out well.
I'd imagine the stat to zero out would be his Physical attack, since none of these moves use it anyway.
I'd foresee such a set more likely being Foul Play and Shadow Ball (if he can afford a set like this). The big problem this kind of Sableye would run into is 4MSS, since he wants Will-o-Wisp and Recover for survivability, Foul Play is Physical damage, Shadow Ball for STAB or Dazzling Gleam for different coverage, and a boosting move since the +100 Mega boost limit still leaves him with Sp.A that's just okay.
When you think about other Calm Mind users, the things that always let them down are 1 or more of the following: unfortunate typing (Reuniclus, Musharna), useless abilities (Musharna, arguably Suicune), lack of recovery (Suicune. lol Rest) and most of all, susceptibility to Taunt/Roar/Encore and Toxic.
Mega Sableye has NONE of these flaws. Great typing, great ability (priority Calm Mind on first turn, then bounce back those non-attacking moves), great Recovery (works in all weathers/more reliable than RestTalk). The only thing that compares right now is Clefable, which is currently highly ranked.
I see no way this thing isn't OU unless they mess up the stat distribution.
Mega Sableye has NONE of these flaws. Great typing, great ability (priority Calm Mind on first turn, then bounce back those non-attacking moves), great Recovery (works in all weathers/more reliable than RestTalk). The only thing that compares right now is Clefable, which is currently highly ranked.
I see no way this thing isn't OU unless they mess up the stat distribution.
Agreed this thing is a lot like Clefable in a lot of ways. A) great defensive typing, B) Reliable Recovery and C) doesn't give a shit about toxic/burn. Except Mega Sableye has more than that. It can be classic annoyer at base form with priority burn and recovery, then when time comes, it can Mega evolve and then Calm Mind quickly and start flinging dark pulses etc
I think the comparison between Sableye and Suicune is actually an interesting one. As CM users, they're probably going to play quite similarly: Last mon sweeping duties. Obviously Sableye can come in earlier and FSU because it can't be phazed, but I see Sableye running cleanup as a CM user. Because I don't know what's going to happen with its Special Attack, I'm treating it as unchanged. That said, at +6 it hits 1004 with a positive nature.
ANYWHO…on to the fun stuff…
Sabeleye has Dark STAB, meaning it has 0 pokemon immune to its attack. It also does have reliable recovery, and the oft coveted Magic Bounce (Taunt can't shut it down; it can't be hit with Toxic or burns). Sableye also has a much more reliable source of burning opponents--Suicune always feels like you're at the mercy of the RNG gods. It will be hard to take down if it gets going. That said, an Unaware Clefable can always come in and ruin its sweep, so we may see more of that once we get Mega-Sableye. Another downside I haven't seen many people talk about is the drop in speed. Sableye is already slow, so if it's dropping base speed, it's dipping below base 50. In that respect, it will feel a little like Reuniclus--minus the (optional) Trick Room. You're also going to want to remove any Mega-Mawile from the game, as the SD set will simply overwhelm Sableye (even through the burn). However, like all sweepers, if you remove Sableye's counters from the game, he's going to win you matches plain-and-simple.
Oh boy oh Boy oh boy oh boy!! Magic Bounce!
Mind games, Mind Games, Mind Games!
Lead with Sableye:
-> Is opponent physical attacker? Prankster Will o Wisp!
-> Stealth rocks? Confuse ray shenanigans? Taunt? MEVO!
Do we have confirmed stats though? Here's hoping he at least gets respectable def/sdef!
Mind games, Mind Games, Mind Games!
Lead with Sableye:
-> Is opponent physical attacker? Prankster Will o Wisp!
-> Stealth rocks? Confuse ray shenanigans? Taunt? MEVO!
Do we have confirmed stats though? Here's hoping he at least gets respectable def/sdef!
So, I've gotta wonder how would a resttalk set work for this thing?
I know we don't have stats and he has recover, but, it'd be nice for those lucky burns and poisons from Scald and sludge wave/bomb, which would wear it down more than we would like because of its low base HP.
Something like
Rest
Sleep talk
Dark Pulse/Shadow ball
Calm mind
Prevents phazing, prevents passive lucky burns and poisons. It essentially prevents a lot of what's hindering him from being good. However, he loses out on burning things, you could even sub dark pulse and shadow ball for will o wisp since he can't be taunted and slowly widdle things down.
Honestly, it's more stally to me than it is a tank.
I know we don't have stats and he has recover, but, it'd be nice for those lucky burns and poisons from Scald and sludge wave/bomb, which would wear it down more than we would like because of its low base HP.
Something like
Rest
Sleep talk
Dark Pulse/Shadow ball
Calm mind
Prevents phazing, prevents passive lucky burns and poisons. It essentially prevents a lot of what's hindering him from being good. However, he loses out on burning things, you could even sub dark pulse and shadow ball for will o wisp since he can't be taunted and slowly widdle things down.
Honestly, it's more stally to me than it is a tank.
I'm not going to knock it before we try it, but my gut tells me that Recover is just going to be overall much more useful. ResTalk hampers Sableye's ability to function as an annoyer--something I'm not entirely sold on removing. I know you said you could remove the attacks for WoW, but CM/WoW/Rest/Sleep Talk does not sound like it's going to be effective. It's hard walled by fire types--something you can circumvent by just using Recover and Dark Pulse.
I don't think Sableye needs a Resttalk set the way Suicune does. Suicune runs Resttalk to cure itself of status AND because it's its only form of recovery. With Recover and Magic Bounce, Sableye can heal and already doesn't care about status in the first place, freeing up a slot for Will-o-Wisp or another STAB.
There's no real move in OU with passive Poison that Sableye needs to worry about, and for passive Burns, there's Scald, Flare Blitz, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast. Save Scald, the chances are so low that I don't think the two move slots and half loss of control is worth it for Resttalk. Plus, without Toxic, Sableye with enough boosts can just recover after a couple turns of Burn Damage. If the passive status really proves problematic, elimination of those Pokemon simply becomes one of the forms of support Sableye needs, similar to Keldeo needing Fly-Spammers gone, or Suicune needing the blobs and Water-Types/absorbers.
Actually, I think with Magic Bounce this thing has a massive chance of being OP. Let's see: immunity to most forms of passive damage - check; good defensive typing - check; priority Calm Mind/WoW on the first turn - check; reliable recovery - check; good-to-great DEF/SATK/SDEF - probably check. The thought that you can even throw things like Snarl, Taunt and Foul Play in this thing if you really want it makes it very versatile. Obviously, the decisive factor will be the actual stat distribution, but, from what we heard, Game Freak can't really mess this up. A drop in Speed is very good news, as it now has more than 100 to distribute in DEF/SATK/SDEF. We really have to wait but I can see some very good sets in my head.
Bold/Calm/Modest (maybe)
252 HP/ 252 SDEF (or SATK)/ 4 DEF
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover/WoW/Taunt/Foul Play
Or, if you want a more defensive approach, you could go for this:
- Snarl
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover
- WoW/Taunt/Foul Play/Whatever
Maybe I'm very wrong - or maybe Game Freak gives it +50 in ATK LOL -, but I can't see it being anything less than very good. For all we know, it's as good a Calm Minder as Clefable, possibly even better.
EDIT: Just seen one thing: you can choose Power Gem over Dazzling Gleam to nail both versions of Megazard and Talonflame.
Bold/Calm/Modest (maybe)
252 HP/ 252 SDEF (or SATK)/ 4 DEF
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover/WoW/Taunt/Foul Play
Or, if you want a more defensive approach, you could go for this:
- Snarl
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover
- WoW/Taunt/Foul Play/Whatever
Maybe I'm very wrong - or maybe Game Freak gives it +50 in ATK LOL -, but I can't see it being anything less than very good. For all we know, it's as good a Calm Minder as Clefable, possibly even better.
EDIT: Just seen one thing: you can choose Power Gem over Dazzling Gleam to nail both versions of Megazard and Talonflame.
Last edited:
No seriously, I think SubCM mono attack sableye will be a threat
Sableye @ Sablite(?)
Ability: Prankster-> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dark Pulse
So this set pretty much is a bulky sweeper, not unlike crocune. What advantages does it have over crocune?
-Better coverage
-Assumably stronger
-Magic Bounce allows it to not give a fuck about taunt, roar, or anything crocune worrys about.
Take this into consideration, please.
See, I don't really think Sableye could do this very well. Spiritomb can run the same set, and despite having far better bulk than regular Sableye it struggles to get any more than a couple Calm Minds up before dying - a lot of things can 2HKO it while it tries to set up. However, it really depends on how much bulk Sableye is given through it's Mega Evolution: Spiritomb has 50/108/108 bulk and base Sableye has 50/75/65, so it needs at least +33 in Defense and +43 in Special Defense to break even. I can see first turn Prankster as you Mega Evolve helping a lot with setting up against faster special attackers though.
Last edited:
I know this is a purely hypothetical scenario and thus not really useful for metagame discussion, but I was wondering, if Mega Sableye would have been made a physical attacker instead of special, would it have more or less potential?
It would trade the Fairy and Rock coverage and Calm Mind/Nasty Plot for the elemental punches, Knock Off and Sucker Punch.
It would trade the Fairy and Rock coverage and Calm Mind/Nasty Plot for the elemental punches, Knock Off and Sucker Punch.
There's no reason it couldn't run Knock Off, Sucker Punch or even Shadow Sneak anyway: 75 base isn't terrible, especially considering the utility and high base power (except sneak lol) of those moves, especially after STAB. Hell, GF might even stat dump a bit in Attack, and 85+ is not a bad stat by any means...
I like the set, but why Sub over WoW? It really gets additional utility with it. As for the Pros, I'd like to add to that...
-Better typing
-Reliable recovery
-Not really bothered by Knock Off
I'd also like to add some Cons...
-Slower
-Uses up a mega slot
Other things to be wary of…
*Dragon Tail: Don't be fooled into thinking you are immune to phasing.
*Mega Charizard X: He can just boost alongside you and overwhelm you
*Mold Breaker: Watch out for Mold Breaker shenanigans like Taunt or Roar. While they're uncommon, they'll ruin this thing.
You forgot Unaware Clefable, which uses you for setup bait and doesn't mind the burn (hello Sleep immunity) and resists Dark Pulse.
You have some good points, but Megazard X would at least get 2HKO'ed by Power Gem, so it can't really risk boosting, at least if Power Gem get's used in place of Dazzling Gleam.
I like sub over will o wisp to prevent random dragon tails, lol. but seriously, with all the support options it has, i can easily see taunt or wisp taking over sub. maybe extra coverage, too.
You aren't going to take down Unaware Clefable with Shadow Ball…I would present a calc, but even IF Sableye gets a major base SpA increase (which it likely won't), it's not going to matter.
Shadow Ball also lets chansey completely rain on your parade, although I'd imagine it does that anyways. Dark Pulse> Shadow Ball because nothing is immune to it.
EDIT:
Wouldn't it just make sense to let Sableye be the last mon alive and sweep instead?
actually, it might be able to run taunt over sub to let it beat chansey.
Chansey can't touch you anyway; you're immune to S-Toss and you bounce back status.
On second thought, Chansey isn't switching into you anyways. In that case, Shadow Ball is actually better just because of the potential SpD drop and the extra 10 Base Power.
- Status