Salamence (Bulky Yache)

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DRADE

[SET]
name: Salamence
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage/Dragon Claw
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Roost
item: Yache Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 92 HP / 64 Def / 100 SpD / 252 Spe


Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Bulkyier version of DD Mence, who with Yache Berry can sweep the metagame without Latias in it.
-Beats Mamoswine,Starmie,Weavile (only if attack if chose when they first move),Vaporeon and most of tthe usual counters to DD Mence
-Requires at least 2 members of the opposing team to defeat this pokemon
-Currently one similar set on the set, that is however much more frail and has little survivalbility

Additional Comments:
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang
-Less bulky Spread: Hasty 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe

Teammates and Counters:
-Works well with Magnezone,Scizor,Weavile,Starmie,Stealth Rock user
-Stopped by Cresslia (and if SR are up Weavile)
-Can ONLY 2HKO with Fire Blast on a 252/0 Impish Skarmory (Fire Blast + 24 SpA EVs guarentees 2HKO on any Skarmory)


CB Weavile's Ice Shard Adamant 252 Atk - 64.4%-76.2%
CB Mamoswine's Ice Shard Adamant 252 Atk - 68.3% - 81.35%
CB Scizor's Bullet Punch Adamant 252 Atk - 51.1% - 60.45%
LO Starmie's Ice Beam Timid 252 SpA - 67.23% - 79.66%
Wish Vaporeon's Ice Beam Bold 0 SpA -44.6% - 53.1%
Cresselia's Ice Beam Bold 4 SpA - 51.9% - 61.58%
 
[SET]
name: Salamence
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage/Dragon Claw
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Roost
item: Yache Berry
nature: Naughty
evs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 140 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Following in the footsteps of his big brother, Yachechomp, YacheMence performs similarly to Yachechomp, but with Intimidate. Intimidate gives Salamence a much easier time setting up, thanks to the amount of switches caused by it. The moveset is that of the standard DD Mence set, in which it utilizes Dragon Dance to build its Speed and Attack to start a sweep. Outrage is the Dragon STAB of choice because it does around 80% to a 252/252 Def Vaporeon with +1 DD. Earthquake gets rid of Electric types like Magnezone, Electivire, and Jolteon looking to set up on you, as well as Defensive Steels that come in your way. Fire Blast is here for pesky Steels looking to get in your way, namely Skarmory. Stone Edge is an option if Gyarados is causing your team much trouble, but 2HKOs or 3HKOs Skarmory. Roost is there to add survivalbility, allowing you to get more DD's in, however with Outrage and Earthquake as your only moves, you can be walled by Bronzong .</p>

<p>This set abuses its excellent typing and Intimidate to help it set up. Once Salamence comes in on a support Pokemon, it will find no trouble getting one, or even two, Dragon Dances. No user of Ice Beam can OHKO besides Glacieon who is almost unseen in the OU metagame. Salamences bulk combined with Yache Berry make Weaviles Ice Shard a OHKO, so attack immediately when facing one. This set's biggest problem is going to be Steel-types with a ground resistance, and bulky support Pokemon like Swampert and Cresselia. Unlike the standard Dragon Dancer, this set doesn't have the muscle to get through its counters. Magnezone is a highly recommended partner, who can switch into the more threatening Steel-types, such as Scizor, Skarmory, Jirachi, (Jirachi can't do shit to this set) and Bronzong, and KO (most of these are 2 and 3HKO's) them with Thunderbolt. Carrying a Pokémon to lure out Steel-types beforehand is a must, which allows Magnezone to trap them, and 2HKO or OHKO them with Thunderbolt. Gengar is a good choice to accomplish this task, who can either scout for Choiced attacks with Protect or KO the Steel-types itself with Hidden Power Fire. In general, Gengar is great at weakening the opponent's Pokémon into Outrage's KO range. Rapid Spin or LO Starmie + Rapid Spin is an excellent pair with this set because she can sweepe from the other side of the spectrum while Rapid Spining away Stealth Rocks, that can hurt Salamence's chances of a succesful sweep. Stealth Rock greatly supports this set, turning some 2HKOs into OHKOs. Scizor is a great partner to this set, revenge killing some of Salamence's counters. (Exactly what counters does scizor revenge kill?)</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The 252 EVs in Atk are for maximum sweeping potential with Dragon Dance. The 140 Spe EVs are to outspeed ScarfStarmie after +2 DD's, allowing Salamence to set up while they switch to Starmie, and survive the incoming Ice Beam while setting up a second Dragon Dance. 24 SpA Evs are to ensure ensure that Fire Blast will always OHKO 252/0 Impish Skarmory. Then The 92 HP EVs are there for bulk, allowing you to survive throughout various neutral damaging attacks. The 24 SpA EVs can be placed into Speed or HP if Stone Edge or Roost are being used instead of Fire Blast. If this is the case, the nature should also be changed to Adamant if this happens. </p>



<p>This set does have some notable counters, though. Steel Types can be quite a nuisence however, walling all but Earthquake (except Levivators) and Fire Blast (Obviously it doesnt have trouble with them if it can hit them with its secondary move...) Choice Band Scizor can come in on anything but a +1 EQ or Fire Blast and 2HKO (possibly 3HKO havent done stats) (well do them...) Salamence. Hippowdon and Swampert can come in on a +1 Outrage and Roar Salamence away, ruining the sweep. Ice Shard Donphan / Mamoswine / Weavile can come in and revenge kill if Salamence has taken substantial damage, but if Salamence is at full health then the Yache Berry will keep it alive, however when one of these pokemon come in, OHKO it immediately. Any move OHKOs Weavile on this set, Fire Blast and Outrage (+1) OHKOs Mamoswine, and Outrage (+1) OHKOs Donphan (no it doesn't) .</p>

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You really need to polish up on your writing before you make a set like this. You had a lot of spelling errors, and you had soooo many run on sentences. Also questioning the viability of this set. Good first try though!
 
thanks, but i need help with the damage calculations because i dont know how to do it. Also I have been testing this set, and it has shown Great Success! Though not the amazing sweeper YacheChomp was, it still gets rid of alot of Salamences counters, while enabling it to be a strong sweeper
 
While the HP evs seem viable, the only difference between this set and standard DD Mence is Yache. In my opinion, I just don't see how this isn't standard mence with a bit more bulk (what does it noticeably allow you to live?) and yache. Perhaps Yache could be listed on the main set on the site though as an alternative item.

(P.S I believe more than 32 Sp. Atk EVs are required. This is because 32 Sp. Atk EVs OHKO standard Impish Skarmory with Life Orb, without Life Orb I do not believe that you still are guaranteed that OHKO.)
 
Dr. Reid said:
While the HP evs seem viable, the only difference between this set and standard DD Mence is Yache. In my opinion, I just don't see how this isn't standard mence with a bit more bulk (what does it noticeably allow you to live?) and yache. Perhaps Yache could be listed on the main set on the site though as an alternative item.

(P.S I believe more than 32 Sp. Atk EVs are required. This is because 32 Sp. Atk EVs OHKO standard Impish Skarmory with Life Orb, without Life Orb I do not believe that you still are guaranteed that OHKO.)
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Its actually 24 SpA but yes i can fix it due to the use of Yache Berry
 
I think if anything,a proper YacheMence should be able to come into SR, get a DD off as Mamoswine comes in, survive the CB Ice Shard and KO with outrage.... and if possible in SS too.
 
DRADE said:
[SET]
name: Salamence
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage/Dragon Claw
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Roost
item: Yache Berry
nature: Naughty
evs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 140 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Following in the footsteps of his big brother, Yachechomp, YacheMence performs similarly to Yachechomp, but with Intimidate. Intimidate gives Salamence a much easier time setting up, thanks to the amount of switches caused by it. The moveset is that of the standard DD Mence set, in which it utilizes Dragon Dance to build its Speed and Attack to start a sweep. Outrage is the Dragon STAB of choice because it does around 80% to a 252/252 Def Vaporeon with +1 DD after a single Dragon Dance. Earthquake gets rid of Electric types like such as Magnezone, Electivire, and Jolteon looking to set up on you, as well as defensive Steels that come in your way. Fire Blast is here for pesky Steels not hit by Earthquake looking to get in your way, namely Skarmory. Stone Edge is an option if Gyarados is causing your team much trouble, but 2HKOes or 3HKOes Skarmory. Roost is there to add survivalbility survivability, allowing you to get more Dragon Dances in, however with Outrage and Earthquake as your only moves, you can be walled by both Bronzong and Skarmory.</p>

<p>This set abuses his excellent typing and Intimidate to help him set up. Once Salamence comes in on a support Pokemon, it will find no trouble getting one, or even two, Dragon Dances. No user of Ice Beam can OHKO besides Glacieon Glaceon who is almost unseen in the OU metagame. Even though Salamence is holding a Yache Berry, it cannot survive Weavile's Ice Shard. (removed the other sentence, because it sounded strange. Also, even if you attack immediately, Ice Shard is a priority move and will OHKO Salamence regardless. You can reword what I said if you want, becuase it sounds sort of choppy) This set's biggest problem is going to be Steel-types with a ground resistance, and bulky support Pokemon such as Swampert and Cresselia. Unlike the standard Dragon Dancer, this set doesn't have the same muscle to get through its counters. Magnezone is a highly recommended partner to Salamence, as Steel-types who resist his main STAB are easily taken out, allowing Salamence to sweep more easily. Carrying a Pokemon to lure out Steel-types is also important, because it allows Magnezone to trap them beforehand. Magnezone is a highly recommended partner, who can trap the more threatening Steel-types, such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Bronzong, and 2HKO or 3HKO them with Thunderbolt. Carrying a Pokémon to lure out Steel-types beforehand is a must, which allows Magnezone to trap them, and 2HKO or OHKO them with Thunderbolt. Gengar is a good choice to accomplish this task, who can either scout for Choiced attacks with Protect or KO the Steel-types themselves with Hidden Power Fire. In general, Gengar is great at weakening the opponent's Pokémon into Outrage's KO range. Rapid Spin or LO Starmie + Rapid Spin is an excellent pair with this set because she can sweep from the other side of the spectrum while Rapid Spining away Stealth Rocks, that can hurt Salamence's chances of a succesful sweep. Stealth Rock greatly supports this set, turning some 2HKOs into OHKOs. Scizor is a great partner to this set, revenge killing some of Salamence's counters such as Porygon 2 and Cresslia</p>
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Er, this is sort of confusing. Earlier in the analysis you mention how Salamence cannot survive Weavile's Ice Shard -- despite it's extra bulk and the Yache Berry -- but later in the comments you show calcs where Weavile's Ice Shard only does 83%? I rewrote some parts, but they still sound a little bit choppy.
 
Er, this is sort of confusing. Earlier in the analysis you mention how Salamence cannot survive Weavile's Ice Shard -- despite it's extra bulk and the Yache Berry -- but later in the comments you show calcs where Weavile's Ice Shard only does 83%? I rewrotesome parts, but they still sound a little bit choppy.
Click to expand...
The chance of Adamant CB Weavile's Ice Shard OHKOing with Stealth Rocks up should be mentioned somewhere.
 
Sometimes it's an OHKO with Stealth rocks up, but sometimes not, so it should be said that Weavile has a chance to OHKO Salamence factoring in Stealth rocks damage.
 
This needs to be reviewed by Quality Control first. please post new sets there.
 
No from me. Resistance berry on a Pokemon with SR weakness, a -SpD nature, and hardly any bulk investment? Also no max Spe due to the minimal bulk and SpA investment in a metagame full of threats just aiming tie with max Spe Salamence? Even the calcs posted show that Salamence has a chance to still be KO'd by Ice-type attacks after SR damage even with Yache. To top it all off, the Scizor calc assumes Intimidate, which is not ideal for a set like this, where Scizor would likely be used to revenge kill. If Scizor ISN'T being used to revenge kill, Mence comes in on it locked into Bullet, then Mence can KO with Fire Blast (same with any Mence who packs a Fire-type move), and then is now stuck without max Spe to be revenge killed by whatever.
 
Correct me if i'm wrong, but arent ice moves less of a problem these days, but back when Donphan and Weavile were running around spamming Ice Shard, yache was generally more viable? Still, being able to set up dragon dances against opponents using ice beam who expect to OHKO your Salamence will always come in handy, surviving ice shard and KOing the opponent back as well.

Anyway, a naughty nature lowers special defence, which means Ice Beam will probably deal some unnecessary extra damage especially supported by stealth rock and sometimes without it, even with fire blast I question the nature for that specific set.
 
thanks philip for the comments, ive changed the spread to be more bulky both Defensively and Special Defensively
 
Sorry, the fact that you so drastically changed the EVs with no reasoning to back them up just proves that you did not test this set, which is a requirement of posting sets. Yache Mence probably won't have a chance to get on-site unless Stealth Rock gets banned or something crazy. Even then, I'm not 100% sure we would give it a chance, because Dragonite pulls it off just so much better. Investing in max Spe and no Atk is just not a very solid strategy, and my stance on this set is still no, sorry.

Anyways, since you broke a rule (not testing the set before posting), the policy is to close the thread, which I'm going to have to do now. If you continue to post untested sets, it is grounds for an infraction, so please be careful in the future =/
 
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