Sandstorm Team~

[Jackson]

Psuedo-Sandstorm Team.

Hi everyone, this is the first competitive team I have ever made, so bear with me. I appreciate any critique you have. Thanks!

Team at a Glance:

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On to the analysis...

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability:Sand Veil
206 HP/216 Spe/88 Atk
Nature: Jolly
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn
- Taunt

I originally led with T-Tar, but after some input and consideration, realized that Gliscor should work better. He is less expected as a lead, has the speed, and should work excellently. In addition, Gliscor is Tyrannitar's best friend. He is resistant to much of what T-Tar is weak to, so I think they should work well together. He covers the fighting weakness of both Tyrannitar and Heatran as well. I opted for the high speed EVs and Jolly nature to outspeed a lot of leads that exist, and other gliscors. Would it be better to give him a more defensive EV spread? My one concern is that a lead Aerodactyl with Ice fang completely thrashes this guy.. but I guess that isn’t that common. After shoddy testing this, I realized that earthquake doesn't really provide the best coverage, as so many leads are immune to ground.. are there any other options? Or is this just the best? Also, I switched out roost for Ice Fang, as earthquake just didn't have the coverage I needed, and then switched again to U-Turn. I think U-Turn provides the Bug attack I don't have, and helps Gliscor get away from those Bulky Waters.
Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Water: Suicune, Latias
- Ice: Suicune, Scizor, HEATRAN

Maneuvers against other common leads:

Aerodactyl:
U-Turn while they taunt to Scizor, bullet punch.

Azelf:
U-turn to T-Tar while they taunt to bring them to ~50%, then pursuit for the KO.

Swampert:
U-Turn to Heatran while they avalance/ice beam. HP grass for the KO.

Metagross:
Little iffy. Taunt, the SR or EQ

Tyrannitar:
Taunt then EQ

Infernape:
Usually just take the fakeout and EQ while they setup rocks.

Roserade:
Taunt while they attempt to put me to sleep, then SR, then U-Turn to Heatran.

"Thrash" the Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sandstream
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

I've pretty much tried every set in the book for this guy. I've finally come to this based on advice from other people. He is basically my revenge killer. He can take just about anything that doesn't outspeed him, and thrashes Latias and Rotom. I think he works really well on this team.

Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Bug: Gliscor, HEATRAN, Scizor
- Fighting: Gliscor, Latias
- Grass: HEATRAN, SCIZOR, Latias
- Ground: GLISCOR, LATIAS
- Steel: Suicune, HEATRAN, Scizor
- Water: Suicune, Latias

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
4 Def/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Nature: Naïve (for explosion)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP Grass
- explosion

My special sweeper. I tried to find the most diverse special sweeper from what I currently had on my team, and came up with Heatran. He should be able to take out stuff that gives me trouble. Bronzong and Heatran should hopefully work really well together, as they are both immune to the other's major weakness. Heatran also covers scizors fire weakness. Hidden power grass for the bulky water types that my team has trouble with.

Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Fighting: Gliscor, Latias
- Ground: GLISCOR, LATIAS
- Water: Suicune, Latias

"Strike" the Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
248 HP/ 252 Atk/ 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost

I very heavily debated running a Choice Scizor, but I'm not really a fan of choice items. I think that SD Scizor should work well as a Physical sweeper. Not the typical swords dance set, as I opted for roost and HP EVs over the Bug Bit and Speed EVs. The extra speed doesn’t do much. With the extra HP and Roost, Scizor is able to go through teams pretty effectively, and is usually my main sweeper.0

Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Fire: HEATRAN, Latias

Latias @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

I have mixed feelings on this set. I usually get at least 1 KO with her, but rarely more than that. Trick works WONDERS, completely nerfing tons of stuff. I don't really think I need scarf, but if someone thinks otherwise please tell me. Has pretty decent coverage, and Draco Meteor is monstrous.

Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Bug: HEATRAN, Scizor, Gliscor
- Dark: Heatran, Tyranitar, Scizor
- Dragon: Heatran, Scizor
- Ghost: Heatran Tyranitar Scizor
- Ice: HEATRAN, Suicune, Scizor
did I mention Heatran or Scizor?!

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability:Pressure
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Switched in for Vaporeon. Vaporeon provided the wish support I needed..but it just wasn't helping much. Nonetheless, I LOVE this guy. This thing can take down practically anything, aside from taunters, most specifically Gyarados. After a few CM, I've had this thing sweep entire teams. I love it. A great tank/sweeper. I've even considered opting for a more offensive set, but you gotta love a pokemon that can stay alive for ever.

Weaknesses and who they are covered by:
- Electric: GLISCOR, Latias
- Grass: HEATRAN, SCIZOR, Latias​

 

[NFS_Street_King]

Hey, i like the team. but theres a couple of things i noticed with it.

Scizor, this one would be safer to run a Focus Sash on and switch to Jolly Nature.
Reasoning:-
~ Gives you a safe 'extra' sword dance if they switch.
~ Jolly allows you to out speed other Scizors Bullet Punch.

Vaporeon, This is down to preferance, but I've found Hidden Power Ground works better than electric.
Reasoning: -
~ If you predict a switch to and electic counter you can severally dent them before they hit you.
~ This also prevents Lanturn walling you.

This leads me onto Tyranitar. Yes you should us Earthquake over Stone Edge, but only if you don't mind being walled by Skarmory. It allows you to hit Infernape, Heatran, Other Tyranitars, and such harder, but reduces the damage you can deal to Skarmory, Gliscor and Breloom. This can be covered with Dragon Dance, but is hard to pull off.

Thats all I can think of at the moment.
​

 

[Bartman101]

Hey, i like the team. but theres a couple of things i noticed with it.

Scizor, this one would be safer to run a Focus Sash on and switch to Jolly Nature.
Reasoning:-
~ Gives you a safe 'extra' sword dance if they switch.
~ Jolly allows you to out speed other Scizors Bullet Punch.

Vaporeon, This is down to preferance, but I've found Hidden Power Ground works better than electric.
Reasoning: -
~ If you predict a switch to and electic counter you can severally dent them before they hit you.
~ This also prevents Lanturn walling you.

This leads me onto Tyranitar. Yes you should us Earthquake over Stone Edge, but only if you don't mind being walled by Skarmory. It allows you to hit Infernape, Heatran, Other Tyranitars, and such harder, but reduces the damage you can deal to Skarmory, Gliscor and Breloom. This can be covered with Dragon Dance, but is hard to pull off.

Thats all I can think of at the moment.
​

__________________

Sigh, yeah dude, like everything u said there makes no sense whatsoever. Firstly Sash on scizor, i mean wtf? Looks like u havent heard of Stealth rock. plus, his scizor is a late game sweeper so it need life orb for the extra power. Again it is the same reason y it has adamant>jolly, besides, other scizor's BP isnt going to be doing much damge anyway.

Vaporeon is ment to counter gyara, not electric types, so thats y it has hp elec, u get much better coverage with water+elec than water+ground, plus lanturn is rarely seen in OU anyway, so thats NOT aproblem.

I would switch gliscor to your lead too. Moveset is fine, just switch the nature to jolly and have 252speed, 252hp, 4atk/def (doesnt matter really) so u can outspeed and taunt most other lead Gliscor who dont run that much speed (like all Gliscors). Then give Ttar Fire punch>taunt which allows you to hit steels (mainly scizor in particuar). So u keep 2 good powerful stab moves, and you get good coverage at the same time. Whoops, nearly 4got, change the item to babiri berry so u dont get owned by BP scizor.

Also your team is quite slow outside of Gliscor. I also feel that FLYGON could do a much better job than bronzong on your team, and it could also act as a secondary revenge killer along with scizor. So here are two sets i came up with

Flygon@choice scarf
252atk, 252speed, 4hp
Jolly Nature
-U-turn
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Thunder Punch
-Outrage/Dragon Clwa/Draco Meteor
U-turn is for basic scouting, EQ for nice damge all round. Stone Edge or thunder punch for DD'd gyarados when vap is on low health. Stone Edge gets better coverage, but an untimely miss could cost you the game so Tpunch is another option. The last move is your choice. Outrage is recommended on the analysis, but i dont like it as various things can just come in and wall you, costing you your flygon

Now if you really dont like scarfing it here is another, more defensive moveset
Flygon@leftovers
Jolly Nature
252hp, 80speed, 176 attack
-Toxic
-Roost
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
This set is simple.It's purpose is to be reasonbly good at taking hits, toxic the opponent, roost of any damage and attack when able (these 2 moves have decent coverage too). This can spread poison around the oppositons team and help against walls.

Hope I helped,

Bartman101

 

[Jackson]

Thanks for the input guys.

As for Gliscor as my lead.. definitely sounds interesting. The negative would be not having the sandstorm from the start, and thus, Gliscor wouldn't have the upped evasion and SpD when he starts, but I don't really think this is too big a deal. Plus, Gliscor should be able to deal will most of the leads that I come to. I think this is a good idea, thanks!

As for Flygon, I highly considered him when building this team. I only worried about having two pokemon with that severe ice weakness (flygon and gliscor). What I like about Bronzong is his single weakness (that Heatran completely covers). But if you think this team needs the extra attacking power, maybe that would be better?

 

[Alan]

Why does Bronzong have Stealth Rock if Gliscor has it?

You may also want to consider Hidden Power [Grass] over Dragon Pulse, since I think most Mence sets outspeed you anyway, Hidden Power [Grass] should help you out a lot, since Swampert can wall/kill most of your team, and nobody wants to be Pert weak.

Hope this quick little nitpick helped.

-Good luck.

 

[Veritas]

Changes in BOLD and ITALICS

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability:Sand Veil
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Nature: Impish
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Taunt

I originally led with T-Tar, but after some imput and consideration, realized that Gliscor should work better. He is less expected as a lead, has the speed, and should work excellently. In addition, Gliscor is Tyrannitar's best friend. He is resistant to much of what T-Tar is weak to, so I think they should work well together. He covers the fighting weakness of both Tyrannitar and Heatran as well.

Personally I prefer a bulkier ev set on gliscor. I usually go for 252 Def rather than speed, since realistically it won't be outspeeding much anyways. This is essentially good for slow leads, so watch out for faster ones that may open with an ice hit rather than sr first.

Tyranitar @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sandstream
4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Nature: Jolly
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch

I originally had this guy as my lead, but switched him with Gliscor. No earthquake, as fire punch covers those steel types (especially scizor). This guy should be a monster, hopefully sweeping much the opponent's team early.

Okay, this isn't a "bad" ttar set, but it really isn't fitting into your team. Sure it can act as a powerful sweeper with a few DDs up, but realistically you need to cover the areas you are lacking first. I would reccomend a sleeptalk curse tar, and leave the huge offense to scizor. Or I would opt for the choice scarf set.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Nature: Naïve (for explosion)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse/Dark Pulse
- explosion

My special sweeper. I tried to find the most diverse special sweeper from what I currently had on my team, and came up with Heatran. He should be able to take out stuff that gives me trouble. Bronzong and Heatran should hopefully work really well together, as they are both immune to the other's major weakness. Heatran also covers scizors fire weakness. Dragon Pulse over HP grass/electric for stuff like Salamence that my team doesn't cover that well.

This functions well on your team I would have to say. You may find choice scarf/specs more valuable to your team, but this definetely addresses you're teams painful magnezone weakness.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Pursuit/Quick Attack

I very heavily debated running a Choice Scizor.. but I'm not really a fan of choice items. I think that SD Scizor should work well as a Physical sweeper. He has good coverage, and both Bullet Punch and Bug Bite benefit from STAB and technician.

A slow life orb scizor, with no defensive evs or recovery moves isnt going to last as long as you hope. There is no need for brick break, so that should be swapped for roost. The speed evs could potentially be cut to a lower number if you want a bulkier scizor (going to hp instead), since an extra ~50 speed won't be helping scizor in the long run. Bug bite is a decent option, but there arent enough psychic/grass/dark threats in the OU metagame, so I would opt for pursuit or quick attack (for those bulky waters).

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Bronzong serves as both a mixed wall and attacker.. in some sense. Gyro Ball is great on Bronzong with his low speed, and should take care of a lot of stuff. He is only weak to fire, so can easily take hits for my other pokemon. If I need to, just explode him for a sure KO.

This is definetely not helping your team as far as walling or support. You already have SR, and 3 physical attackers on your team. Since you aren't relying on a stall, it would be nice to have a rapid spinner, so you can more easily switch. You also need something who can handle magnezone, because if we throw another steel type in like forretress, its just going to get trapped. So, lets see what there is to offer your team. We need rapid spin and either a fire, fighting or ground move, and high Special Defence. The first things that come to mind here are claydol or tentacruel. Claydol carries EQ, high special defence and rapid spin, while tentacruel is bulkier, can carry an hp with one of the above types, has rapid spin, but is electric weak. It's really up to you. If you like the idea, respond and I'll give you a move set.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability:Water Absorb
188 HP/252 Def/68 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric
- Wish
- Protect

Vaporeon is essentially here to just wrap up the weak points of my team. My team has a substantial weakness to water, so vaporeon takes care of this. Also, wish support is great on this team, as it is on most.

Out of time to finish rating, but this looks like it fits on your team for the most part. I would consider switching to a bulky swampert instead, so you carry another electric res. Again, respond and ill get you a moveset.

Goodluck!

 

[SoT]

You really can't stop bulky waters, Suicune/ Swampert/ other Vaporeon all trouble you. I would suggest maybe running HP Grass on your Heatran. That will help deal with Swampert/ Vaporeon better, but you'd really just have to boom on Suicune. Also I'm not really sure why you have Stealth Rock on 2 Pokemon...seems like a waste. I might even go as far as too suggest a Tinkbell Celebi set over Bronzong. It can para, take out bulky waters, and even surprise Heatran and Scizor with HP Fire and Earth Power at it's disposal. It can help check pokemon like latias slowing them down so they're not too troublesome. Idk, just a little nit pick i noticed. I can't exactly remember if the main item is Life Orb, if it is, just run leftovers. SS + LO + SR won't exactly help Celebi play too big of a role, so leftovers would be the safer choice here. Hope I helped, post if you have any comments concerns, have a nice day. :)

 

[Jackson]

You really can't stop bulky waters, Suicune/ Swampert/ other Vaporeon all trouble you. I would suggest maybe running HP Grass on your Heatran. That will help deal with Swampert/ Vaporeon better, but you'd really just have to boom on Suicune. Also I'm not really sure why you have Stealth Rock on 2 Pokemon...seems like a waste. I might even go as far as too suggest a Tinkbell Celebi set over Bronzong. It can para, take out bulky waters, and even surprise Heatran and Scizor with HP Fire and Earth Power at it's disposal. It can help check pokemon like latias slowing them down so they're not too troublesome. Idk, just a little nit pick i noticed. I can't exactly remember if the main item is Life Orb, if it is, just run leftovers. SS + LO + SR won't exactly help Celebi play too big of a role, so leftovers would be the safer choice here. Hope I helped, post if you have any comments concerns, have a nice day. :)

I see where you're coming from, but I'd really like to have this team in game, and Celebi is nigh impossible without hacking.. But I'll definitely do HP grass on tran.

Why does Bronzong have Stealth Rock if Gliscor has it?

You may also want to consider Hidden Power [Grass] over Dragon Pulse, since I think most Mence sets outspeed you anyway, Hidden Power [Grass] should help you out a lot, since Swampert can wall/kill most of your team, and nobody wants to be Pert weak.

Hope this quick little nitpick helped.

-Good luck.

Makes sense. I changed heatran. I am going to getting rid of Bronzong anyway, so that will change. Thanks!



@ Lunar Flare:

Wow,thanks. This was really helpful. I made several of your changes. My questions are the following:

Why doesn't the T-Tar set fit? Sorta unclear on this.
Would it be better to invest so SpD evs in Gliscor as well, rather than solely defense?
I like the idea of swampert... but that makes me lose the valuable water absorb and wish support of Vaporeon.. is it worth it?
I will remove Bronzong... but would it be better to go for one of the spinners you had in mind or a Choice Scarf Flygon? Or should I Choice Scarf T-Tar? I don't really have much speed....
What movesets did you have in mind for pert, tentacool, or claydol?

Thanks so much!

 

[Veritas]

I see where you're coming from, but I'd really
@ Lunar Flare:

Wow,thanks. This was really helpful. I made several of your changes. My questions are the following:

Why doesn't the T-Tar set fit? Sorta unclear on this.
Would it be better to invest so SpD evs in Gliscor as well, rather than solely defense?
I like the idea of swampert... but that makes me lose the valuable water absorb and wish support of Vaporeon.. is it worth it?
I will remove Bronzong... but would it be better to go for one of the spinners you had in mind or a Choice Scarf Flygon? Or should I Choice Scarf T-Tar? I don't really have much speed....
What movesets did you have in mind for pert, tentacool, or claydol?

Thanks so much!

Starting with T-tar. First of all, a jolly ttar isn't necessary in most cases, unless you are scarfing, then it is viable. After a few DD, the jolly nature becomes insignificant when compared to the attack or defence boost you can get from natures. My concern is that since your already stacked with some fearsome pokemon, things like status, or an opponents sweeper could cripple your team. Thats why I am suggesting you go for one of the extremes rather than just an average ttar set. Either pure offense, scarved, or maybe a sleeptalk set, even smogons tyraniboah.

Gliscor doesn't really need more SpD ev's, because of the huge boost it gets from sandstorm. That being said, it assumes gliscor will still be around late game. I'm assuming that since it has roost, you intend for that to happen.

In my opinion vaporeon is always outclassed by swampert. It is just an all around "bulkier" water. It is really only susceptible to grass attacks, and with scizor and heatrans huge grass resist, that should be an issue. Sure, you might lose wish support, but if you look, most of your team already carries recovery. Ttar if u opt for rest, gliscor's roost, scizors roost, and potentially pert if you go for a rest talk set. If you choose to use swampert, i would use the following move set;

Swampert @ Leftovers
252 hp, 252 def, 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
-Roar/Protect
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake
-Hp Electric (this can really catch those other bulky waters by surprise)

Definetely don't add a scarf flygon to your team over tentacruel. If you want that addition to your team, swap out scizor. As for a tent moveset, here goes;



Cant do much better than the standard toxic spiker set, taken directly from smogon.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
Moveset EVs ~ Toxic Spikes
~ Rapid Spin
~ Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Electric
~ Surf
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

Hope I helped!

 

[teajello]

Hey Jackson,

First of all, I agree with Lunar in saying that you should vie for a bulkier Ttar set. Speed isn't really going to do anything for Ttar, as even with speed EVs and Jolly, Ttar is still morbidly slow compared to many of the OU metagame that can come in and OHKO it without any EV investment in its defenses. Tyraniboah is a viable option in my opinion. I have not used one in truth as I don't usually use Ttar on my teams but I have encountered a few that gave me some trouble. Even if not Tyraniboah, you can vie for any of the bulkier Ttar sets. I feel like bulk and power would offer more for your team than a scarf.

Tentacruel works great as a spinner and toxic spiker. It has considerable bulk despite its list of weaknesses and is great for utility in general. While Flygon is quite an amazing poke in many teams, I don't feel like it would benefit yours as well as it does other teams. I feel like you have enough power as it is to not have to worry about having to put in a scarfed Flygon.

It seems to me like your Scizor is kind of fragile. Now you may say, oh I'll just roost it off. But when I say fragile I mean OHKO fragile. Any fire move that comes your way should you not be prepared for it and you are toast. I don't feel like roost would greatly benefit your Scizor set. Now I concede that I may be wrong as two before me seemed to have approved of this, but I still feel like your Scizor is somehow made the wrong way. I am in no way a Scizor expert as I rarely use one but I have had to deal with them extensively with my absurdly Scizor-weak hail team and found that if Scizor had a great downfall, it was its lack of bulk. With no EV investments and an Impish nature, my Dusknoir could 2HKO a Scizor while it desperately tried to unsuccessfully Pursuit me to death if this Scizor was EV'd as yours is (According to MetalKid's damage calculator, Fire Punch from Impish no Atk EVs Dusknoir will always 2HKO and will rarely OHKO after SR and one layer of spikes damage while Pursuit from Scizor will never 2HKO and will never OHKO even after a swords dance). Now Dusknoir isn't very common so I'm simply using it as an example. Scizors without HP EVs are very frail and despite their huge list of resistances, they are completely beaten down by fire types.

Lastly, as to whether or not to switch Vap to Pert, that's your choice actually. I feel like you really don't need another Elec weaknesses with Gliscor and Ttar plowing right through the common ones and I think a Water Absorb would in fact benefit your team as a whole. Now in retrospect, I think Swampert outclasses Vaporeon on many levels but as with your team, I feel like you really don't need a Swampert in there and Vaporeon can help with the overall synergy of your team by Wishing and absorbing water. Swampert is a good Poke but it doesn't seem to fit too well in your team. With Wish support, Ttar, Heatran, and Tenta (providing you vie for one) would get significantly better lasting power.

In finality, I think the biggest change you should make is to your Scizor. You should definitely switch to another Scizor set, maybe one of the many on the strategydex that have HP EV investment that can overall help the bulk of your Scizor. I really just feel like Speed is entirely unnecessary on your Scizor because there is really no need for you to outspeed other Scizors if you can beat them down more efficiently.

 

[Bartman101]

no, no, NO! who the hell is that idiot Lunar Flare??? The whole point of lead Gliscor is to outspeed a lot of other leads taunt them, get up rocks, have a STAB EQ to deal nice damage and be able to heal itself, not being a physical wall!!!

Edit- also scizor with just BP and Quick Attack for its attacks is a big no, no. You get almost no type coverage whatsoever. Roost is good, so have BP and Brick Break/Bug Bite. (your choice)

 

[Jackson]

Alright, thanks for all the help guys, I changed a ton of stuff, what do you guys think?

 

[Veritas]

no, no, NO! who the hell is that idiot Lunar Flare??? The whole point of lead Gliscor is to outspeed a lot of other leads taunt them, get up rocks, have a STAB EQ to deal nice damage and be able to heal itself, not being a physical wall!!!

Edit- also scizor with just BP and Quick Attack for its attacks is a big no, no. You get almost no type coverage whatsoever. Roost is good, so have BP and Brick Break/Bug Bite. (your choice)

There is no need to flame me, you can address your issues in a more respectful manner. The majority of today's common leads, have higher than base 95, and the others, expecting a taunt, will be ready to attack rather than go for the SR. Gliscor is one of the best walls in today's metagame, carrying easily resisted weakness, base 125 defence, 75 Sp. Defence + a sandstorm boost from ttar. Gliscor's function on this team is to get SR up, and then be able to come in late game to break walls with taunt, still being able to heal damage off, and pack a punch with EQ.

As for scizor, he has always been included on my team, and trying many different sets and builds, I found that it's not difficult at all to get SD in, and that the main thing that walls Bullet punch is a bulky water, hence the inclusion of quick attack. I pump hp evs into scizor and usually 4-16 speed, so I can survive vs pokemon that a +6 BP doesnt OHKO. My goal is not type coverage, it is a BP/QA sweep, roosting off any damage under 50%.

 

[teajello]

I'd have to disagree with Lunar Flare on the inclusion of Quick Attack to Scizor's moveset. Now my gripe is this: What is the point of including a neutral typed attack to counter bulky waters when there are other attacks that can hit it harder for neutral damage? If it's just for priority then I have another gripe. For bulky waters, I'll assume you mean something along the lines of Suicune as Suicune is probably the most prevalent bulky water in today's metagame. Now take this, with 3 SDs, Scizor has no chance to OHKO a Suicune with Quick Attack. It can 2HKO with 2 or 3 SDs but it will never 2HKO with 1. Conversely, a move like Bug Bite (This is not a suggestion just an example), though lacking priority, still withholds STAB and Technician boost and will actually be able to 2HKO bulky Suicune after 1 SD and OHKO after 2 SDs. Now taking this into account, is quick attack really a move worth putting in? What I'm ultimately saying is despite its priority, quick attack is morbidly weak, not being able to 2HKO after an SD and never able to OHKO, thus direly hindering your Scizor's sweeping abilities. Bug Bite on the other hand, will do a ton more damage to bulky waters. Bug Bite's downfall is that it has horrible coverage but then something like Brick Break becomes even more viable than quick attack simply because of its higher damage output toward bulky waters. This is all derived from several damage calculators. I actually think Bug Bite would be a better switch despite its terrible coverage because of its power simply put. However, if you want to keep Brick Break I can definitely see your logic in doing so so I don't think that's really a necessary change. I think your new EVs for Scizor are good though.

Lastly, I agree that Gliscor should have speed as a lead. As a tank, it definitely should not, but you're not using him as a tank are you? You might be using him as a pseudo-tank but his main function on your team is to start the offensive momentum of your team with a fast Taunt and SR as opposed to drag out the confrontation between the leads with roost.

 

[Veritas]

Good point teajello, I would say it comes down to personal preference, as I prefer quick attack to hit electric, fire and water for neutral damage. Again, I personally prefer a bulkier Gliscor, with u-turn. Predicting a taunt, I u-turn, an attack, I SR, and an ice attack, switch to scizor to set-up SD for some early momentum. I run my suggested ev set and, uturn over roost or earthquake, when I use a gliscor lead. Of course it is all up to the OP in the end, as both have their advantages.

 

[Jackson]

Alright, I majorly overhauled this team. Any critique out there?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

The majority of today's common leads, have higher than base 95, and the others, expecting a taunt, will be ready to attack rather than go for the SR. Gliscor is one of the best walls in today's metagame, carrying easily resisted weakness, base 125 defence, 75 Sp. Defence + a sandstorm boost from ttar.

I would like to point out that Ground-type Pokemon do not receive a SpD boost in a Sandstorm. That boost is only for Rock-type Pokemon like Tyranitar.

That aside, this team still has huge problems with bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Swampert and Vaporeon. SD Scizor with Quick Attack is not going to be winning any awards against them. This team could use a few things: another Pokemon with a ground immunity, as you're very susceptible to that right now, it could use to keep two Water-resists, and it could use something with a strong Electric-type attack with which to pummel bulky Waters. I will suggest, for all of these reasons, that you replace Tentacruel with the following Latias.

Latias @ Choice Specs / Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

You may enjoy a Choice Scarf variant as well, since right now you lack any insurance against DDMence or DDGyarados. To further this, I am going to say that you definitely shouldn't be running BaitTar like you are. TTar will lure in and get all sorts of random KO's, but none of them really support Suicune or Scizor's eventual sweeps. You're going to need to beat things like Bulky Waters, Latias, and Rotom-A. Sounds to me like you really actually need a ScarfTar.

Replace your TTar with the following:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

This also gives you some insurance against SDLuke, which you otherwise don't have. (Since your Tran isn't scarf'd) Lastly, about your Heatran, you should really consider running a Sub/Toxic set on it, as it will lure in bulky Pokemon with Fire-resists (waters and latias) and then subsequently cripple their walling ability with Toxic. I recommend the following:

Heatran @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Try out these changes and see how they work - I imagine they'll help focus your team and improve its success tremendously.

Cheers.

 

[Alan]

Alright, I majorly overhauled this team. Any critique out there?

Um, if you have Toxic Spikes up, you need a Spin Blocker. Replace CroCune (its outdated anyway) with RestTalk Rotom-a, blocks spins, absorbs status, rapes physical sweepers with WoW. Everything else looks top notch. (Although, if you find room for it, Spikes would be nice but not necessary).

 

[Jackson]

I would like to point out that Ground-type Pokemon do not receive a SpD boost in a Sandstorm. That boost is only for Rock-type Pokemon like Tyranitar.

That aside, this team still has huge problems with bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Swampert and Vaporeon. SD Scizor with Quick Attack is not going to be winning any awards against them. This team could use a few things: another Pokemon with a ground immunity, as you're very susceptible to that right now, it could use to keep two Water-resists, and it could use something with a strong Electric-type attack with which to pummel bulky Waters. I will suggest, for all of these reasons, that you replace Tentacruel with the following Latias.

Latias @ Choice Specs / Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

You may enjoy a Choice Scarf variant as well, since right now you lack any insurance against DDMence or DDGyarados. To further this, I am going to say that you definitely shouldn't be running BaitTar like you are. TTar will lure in and get all sorts of random KO's, but none of them really support Suicune or Scizor's eventual sweeps. You're going to need to beat things like Bulky Waters, Latias, and Rotom-A. Sounds to me like you really actually need a ScarfTar.

Replace your TTar with the following:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

This also gives you some insurance against SDLuke, which you otherwise don't have. (Since your Tran isn't scarf'd) Lastly, about your Heatran, you should really consider running a Sub/Toxic set on it, as it will lure in bulky Pokemon with Fire-resists (waters and latias) and then subsequently cripple their walling ability with Toxic. I recommend the following:

Heatran @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Toxic

Try out these changes and see how they work - I imagine they'll help focus your team and improve its success tremendously.

Cheers.

Wow, thanks a lot.This is really helpful!

A few things... I really like the latias idea, but that leaves me without a spinner.. is it not really needed? Or then again, I could drop gliscor, move T-Tar to lead, and add in a forretress... what would you suggest?

On T-Tar, Scarf was actually one of the first things I tried.. and it just wasn't really working. Maybe it's just because I'm a noob and don't know how to play it that well.. I just like the MixTar because it is so unexpected. EVERYONE expects Scarftar.

On Heatran, I'm a little confused. Does toxic have any added effects outside of the damage each turn? (like burn's halving of atk, etc) If it doesn't, then how does it really cripple pokes' walling ability? A little confused..

Um, if you have Toxic Spikes up, you need a Spin Blocker. Replace CroCune (its outdated anyway) with RestTalk Rotom-a, blocks spins, absorbs status, rapes physical sweepers with WoW. Everything else looks top notch. (Although, if you find room for it, Spikes would be nice but not necessary).

Hmm... Well, I'm probably going to be getting rid of Tentacruel, so won't have Toxic spikes anyway.. I feel that CroCune really works well most of the time, as well as the fact that I want to have this team on a cartridge, and the rotoms are kind of hard to deal with on them... (all the reverting back to regular rotom and stuff).

 

[Jackson]

Anybody else have any opinions? Any (especially harsh) critique is greatly appreciated!

 

[Wafflez]

Hey, i like the team. but theres a couple of things i noticed with it.

Scizor, this one would be safer to run a Focus Sash on and switch to Jolly Nature.
Reasoning:-
~ Gives you a safe 'extra' sword dance if they switch.
~ Jolly allows you to out speed other Scizors Bullet Punch.

Vaporeon, This is down to preferance, but I've found Hidden Power Ground works better than electric.
Reasoning: -
~ If you predict a switch to and electic counter you can severally dent them before they hit you.
~ This also prevents Lanturn walling you.

This leads me onto Tyranitar. Yes you should us Earthquake over Stone Edge, but only if you don't mind being walled by Skarmory. It allows you to hit Infernape, Heatran, Other Tyranitars, and such harder, but reduces the damage you can deal to Skarmory, Gliscor and Breloom. This can be covered with Dragon Dance, but is hard to pull off.

Thats all I can think of at the moment.
​

Lolz that makes no sense what so ever....First of all Sash is 100% useless unless its for a lead cuz u arnt gona see many teams without stealth rock.
Well i cant see the vappy on his team think he changed it but hp elec was probs there for taking out gyras which are annoying as hell.Then take out that awesome stabbed high chance of critical hit stone edge that gives great coverage with crunch for some dumb earthquake? NEVER!

Also put roost instead of u-turn then u have urself an awesome all purpose physical wall =]

Btw thats a pretty cool ttar set you have ^.^

 

[Phantasm Blast]

great team but i think you should put in a specs flygon
fire blast
u turn
earth power
draco meteor
nature timid
evs:252sp atk/252 spd/4 atk
worked okay on shoddy for me

 

[Rising_Dusk]

A few things... I really like the latias idea, but that leaves me without a spinner.. is it not really needed? Or then again, I could drop gliscor, move T-Tar to lead, and add in a forretress... what would you suggest?

No Pokemon on your team are weak to Stealth Rock. As long as you play aggressively against stall teams (Skarmory in particular), then you also shouldn't have to worry much about Spikes. Your primary sweepers (Suicune via Rest, Scizor, Latias) will all be immune to Toxic Spikes or can soak the status somehow. Furthermore, Gliscor and Latias don't even need to worry about Spikes/TSpikes because they are Flying / have Levitate respectively.

On T-Tar, Scarf was actually one of the first things I tried.. and it just wasn't really working. Maybe it's just because I'm a noob and don't know how to play it that well.. I just like the MixTar because it is so unexpected. EVERYONE expects Scarftar.

There is a good reason everyone expects it. It's hugely effective. If you want to keep running BaitTar, that's fine, but you really need to do two things with it:

1. Run Pursuit to kill opposing Latias and Rotom-A as well as to actually bluff the Scarf in the first place.
2. Run either Stone Edge or Crunch for STAB. Stone Edge covers you well, but Pursuit as a primary Dark-type STAB is underwhelming except if they flee.

On Heatran, I'm a little confused. Does toxic have any added effects outside of the damage each turn? (like burn's halving of atk, etc) If it doesn't, then how does it really cripple pokes' walling ability? A little confused..

The poison damage increases each turn they stay out, so they are either forced to switch out in the face of a sweeper they could otherwise stop or die due to the accumulating damage. Toxic is the bane of walls like Swampert and Vaporeon who pride themselves on their durability over time.

Remember, if they die or lose ~30% life a turn passively to poison, they can no longer wall your sweepers.

Hmm... Well, I'm probably going to be getting rid of Tentacruel, so won't have Toxic spikes anyway.. I feel that CroCune really works well most of the time, as well as the fact that I want to have this team on a cartridge, and the rotoms are kind of hard to deal with on them... (all the reverting back to regular rotom and stuff).

Crocune is an excellent Pokemon. Anyways, Toxic Spikes doesn't really matter that much on this team, since you should run Toxic on Heatran and aren't otherwise stalling too terribly much (except at the endgame with Crocune itself).

great team but i think you should put in a specs flygon
fire blast
u turn
earth power
draco meteor
nature timid
evs:252sp atk/252 spd/4 atk
worked okay on shoddy for me

This set is terrible and will not assist this team in any way. I recommend not using it.

Cheers.

 

[Jackson]

No Pokemon on your team are weak to Stealth Rock. As long as you play aggressively against stall teams (Skarmory in particular), then you also shouldn't have to worry much about Spikes. Your primary sweepers (Suicune via Rest, Scizor, Latias) will all be immune to Toxic Spikes or can soak the status somehow. Furthermore, Gliscor and Latias don't even need to worry about Spikes/TSpikes because they are Flying / have Levitate respectively.

There is a good reason everyone expects it. It's hugely effective. If you want to keep running BaitTar, that's fine, but you really need to do two things with it:

1. Run Pursuit to kill opposing Latias and Rotom-A as well as to actually bluff the Scarf in the first place.
2. Run either Stone Edge or Crunch for STAB. Stone Edge covers you well, but Pursuit as a primary Dark-type STAB is underwhelming except if they flee.

The poison damage increases each turn they stay out, so they are either forced to switch out in the face of a sweeper they could otherwise stop or die due to the accumulating damage. Toxic is the bane of walls like Swampert and Vaporeon who pride themselves on their durability over time.

Remember, if they die or lose ~30% life a turn passively to poison, they can no longer wall your sweepers.

Crocune is an excellent Pokemon. Anyways, Toxic Spikes doesn't really matter that much on this team, since you should run Toxic on Heatran and aren't otherwise stalling too terribly much (except at the endgame with Crocune itself).

This set is terrible and will not assist this team in any way. I recommend not using it.

Cheers.

Alright, I tried everything you said, outside of the toxic on Tran, and from the few battles I've done, its done much better. Thank you so much for all this input, as its really helped both my team and my knowledge of the game! So grateful man, it means a lot!

great team but i think you should put in a specs flygon
fire blast
u turn
earth power
draco meteor
nature timid
evs:252sp atk/252 spd/4 atk
worked okay on shoddy for me

Hmm.. this set seems a little odd.. and I also have two Specs on my team.. thanks for the input though!

Lolz that makes no sense what so ever....First of all Sash is 100% useless unless its for a lead cuz u arnt gona see many teams without stealth rock.
Well i cant see the vappy on his team think he changed it but hp elec was probs there for taking out gyras which are annoying as hell.Then take out that awesome stabbed high chance of critical hit stone edge that gives great coverage with crunch for some dumb earthquake? NEVER!

Also put roost instead of u-turn then u have urself an awesome all purpose physical wall =]

Btw thats a pretty cool ttar set you have ^.^

Thanks for the help! And yeah, i've long changed most of that stuff :)

 

[Aqueos]

Aero never ever carries ice fang so no worries. Black sludge on tentacreul can hurt things that trick tentacreul but then they can trick it back to you. It is an option you may want to consider, but it doesn't matter much because it rarely happens. Toxic's damage increases each turn until you switch. It does not allow walling perpetually. If you've ever been hitting about 35% it's a 3hit ko. With toxic they can't just sit around all day. Perfect example is Cresselia. It can't attack very hard but can wall forever. However one it's toxiced it can't just continue to wall your team forever. Eventually they have to switch or suicide.