Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings

[Canard]

i will mostly talk about HO mons or mons that have so little usage they should get unranked because i only play HO

C ->B/B+
Sticky HO with galv is very solid allowing mons like thundy-t and bisharp to shine even more than they already do.it dosen't deserve to be lower than araqanid

C+ -> A
thundy-i is of course much better now that thundy-t is gone

B -> B+/A
huge cleaner that can destroy unprepared teams and already weakened teams, one of the best HO mon



-> UR
they both suck and don't see play, scream tail is super passive and garticuno is useless now that leaves is gone

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

Rises

A+ -> S
A- -> A
A- -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> A-
B- -> B
B- -> A-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> A
C -> C+
UR -> B-

drops

S -> A
A+ -> A
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C -> UR

We won't be doing reasonings this time but in case you have any questions, we would gladly answer them in here or #vr-discussion on RU server!

 

[The_Bookworm]

I have a curious question regarding the VR.
I noticed that Chesnaught is B tier in the VR (it even was previously B-), but something I also noticed is that mon has been hanging around the RU tier for a while now and that there is quite a bit of ladder usage of the mon from the recently released July tier shift.

As a matter of fact, it has more usage than Mr. Bro himself. I am wondering if this has to do with disconnect between ladder usage and actual VR rankings (Bro having this low amount of usage despite being S tier also strikes me as odd).
There is a couple other minor examples of this anomaly, like Overqwil (B- in the VR, >7% usage), Yanmega (B in the VR, top 10 in usage), and Entei (B- in VR, >5% in usage), but each of these has a clear explanation. Overqwil is a mon seen only in a niche playstyle (Rain), thus will be lower in the VR by principle. Yanmega was only very recently discovered to be a strong meta threat this month. Entei... idk, it is clearly trending down in usage anyways.

Chesnaught is one I am particularly curious about.


One last thing is that apparently Zoroark's illusion ability is so strong, it is affecting the tier list icons too.

 

[BradenBmw]

As a matter of fact, it has more usage than Mr. Bro himself. I am wondering if this has to do with disconnect between ladder usage and actual VR rankings (Bro having this low amount of usage despite being S tier also strikes me as odd).

The low slowbro usage is pretty easily explained in that it just wasnt officially ru until today, people on the lower end of ladder use mons that are in the tier much more often.

 

[FlamPoke]

I have a curious question regarding the VR.
I noticed that Chesnaught is B tier in the VR (it even was previously B-), but something I also noticed is that mon has been hanging around the RU tier for a while now and that there is quite a bit of ladder usage of the mon from the recently released July tier shift.

View attachment 644655

As a matter of fact, it has more usage than Mr. Bro himself. I am wondering if this has to do with disconnect between ladder usage and actual VR rankings (Bro having this low amount of usage despite being S tier also strikes me as odd).
There is a couple other minor examples of this anomaly, like Overqwil (B- in the VR, >7% usage), Yanmega (B in the VR, top 10 in usage), and Entei (B- in VR, >5% in usage), but each of these has a clear explanation. Overqwil is a mon seen only in a niche playstyle (Rain), thus will be lower in the VR by principle. Yanmega was only very recently discovered to be a strong meta threat this month. Entei... idk, it is clearly trending down in usage anyways.

Chesnaught is one I am particularly curious about.


One last thing is that apparently Zoroark's illusion ability is so strong, it is affecting the tier list icons too.
View attachment 644672

Chesnaught benefits from being a great Spiker when coupled with any of the Ground-type rockers like Hippowdon, Krookodile, or Palossand. It's also generally a solid physical wall with access to Knock Off and Body Press to make progress in multiple ways.

Slowbro has a lower usage rate on ladder because ladder often runs offensively-oriented teams, which Slowbro obviously doesn't fit on. It's a great mon that fits on all kinds of balance and bulky offense structures though and is worthy of an A+ ranking to me, at minimum.

Overqwil and Yanmega are two of the best offensive sweepers for their respective styles - Overqwil in rain routinely gets a Swords Dance off and takes two or more kills while Yanmega on HO can completely clean games using either Tera Electric or Ground to give it the ultimate coverage.

Our VR team has fun with the mons listings - peep Amoonguss too!

 

[Sneakyplanner]

There is a couple other minor examples of this anomaly, like Overqwil (B- in the VR, >7% usage), Yanmega (B in the VR, top 10 in usage), and Entei (B- in VR, >5% in usage), but each of these has a clear explanation. Overqwil is a mon seen only in a niche playstyle (Rain), thus will be lower in the VR by principle. Yanmega was only very recently discovered to be a strong meta threat this month. Entei... idk, it is clearly trending down in usage anyways.

I think that much of that will come from the fact that this is 3 month usage data and stuff has changed a lot in those 3 months. On April 1st, Thundurus-t, Iron Leaves and Enamorus-t were all legal and they are mons that Slowbro has a pretty bad matchup against. That and Jirachi becoming a top mon that Slowbro does well against also took time. Also the VR tends to be made with thought towards tournament players which often have a very different metagame because of how often ladder falls back on easy to use, widely shared teams and those that play well vs those teams. Mimikyu is a top 4 pokemon by usage basically entirely because of how it's mandatory on hyper-offense which tends to be one of those easy and shareable teams. Yanmega is also seeing an uptick in good vibes and we all hate it. The arrival of Hoodra probably hurts it again, but the Satan Bug is definitely underrated on the VR for now.

 

[Heatranator]

Zoroark-Hisui

I don't know whether I'm proud of this, or shaking my head at this, but its one of those things.

 

[LBN]

New mons, new VR post. I'm not going to cover a ton of things since there's only been so much I've had time to play with, but I'll cover a couple things on top of the new drops we just received.

New -> A
Let's get this out of the way first. Acidpress is not as good as people expected. It's 4mss is honestly very bad, beyond acidpress you want rest, dragon pulse, flash cannon, and dragon tail. You either completely blank to fairies, blank to cm slowbro or any cm mon like Cresselia (I'll get to that thing soon), or dont have recovery. That being said, Specs is fantastic. It's incredibly strong and it's defensive profile is very good at finding entries. I've had a goodra left at 8% with rocks up and I've went out of my way to preserve it since it getting 1 hit can often mean it getting 1 kill. And the inbuilt gooey utility is actually very good, for things like Maushold, crippling last mon breakers like Slither or Zap-G, etc. Being able to force a speed down can be the difference between winning and losing, and it's extremely handy. Draco/Flash Cannon/Flamethrower/Tbolt is as good as you can ask for on specs, and there's probably other sets that exist, but Specs is by far the standout pick, and I'm sending it to A rank for that reason.

New -> A- (This thing not having a mystery dungeon icon makes me so sad)
Next up, we have probably the more impactful arrival. A new defogger, with an incredibly good defensive profile, levitate, and a host of other tools. It checks alot of mons in the tier. Mimikyu, Zapdos-Galar, Krookodile, Slither Wing, Conkeldurr, H-Lilligant, DD Salamence, DD Flygon you get the picture. It's by far the tiers most sturdy fighting type check, but alot of fighting types in the tier have methods to bother it. Infernape can flip to an NP special set, Mienshao has regen and can just U-turn into special breakers (like Goodra or magnezone), and Okidogi has subbu and CB Gunks. I've seen some complaints that Weezing is a "momentum sink" and I really need people to understand that being a momentum sink isn't a viability death nail, nor is G-Weez even much of a sink. You can swap Steam out for Sludge bomb, which allows you to deal solid damage into things like Volcanion, Armarouge, and other mons while fishing for poison procs aswell. Overall, It's a defogger that stonewalls hippowdon and chesnaught, and Krook needs to resort to Tera poison / Tera Fire gunks to actually dent it. I think it brings a degree of variety to our hazard control options, as our options had a lot of overlapping issues with mons you want to be running, so G-Weez taking up less in the competition department is very welcome.

New -> B-/C+
And now last and most certainly least (spoilers) we have Indeedee-M. Frankly, I don't think this suddenly makes Psychic terrain HO that much better than people make it out to be. Sure, we have Armarouge and that's about as good of a psychic terrain meme as you can get, but the setter not being as much of a paper weight isn't going to move mountains. It still has the fundamental issue of having the defensive integrity of a tissue box, and while it's firepower issue is solved alongside a better speed tier, those weren't what made indeedee suffer before. It's that its not actually providing anything besides Healing Wish support which.. is nice I guess? Again, I think it made psychic terrain ever so slightly better, but still it's a gimmick HO archetype when we have dozens of options to pick from with those. Froslass, Kleavor, Terrakion, Rain, Thwackey, hell even Misty Surge G-Weez HO is doable now. The priority immunity is a good sales pitch, but if you can handle armarouge and maushold you shouldn't be losing to psychic terrain, so B- or C+ is where I'll pitch it. Apparently Indedee-F was never ranked which is crazy because why is Cloyster still here.

-> A-
As the biggest mew hater for the longest time I can no longer avoid the harsh reality that this thing is kinda nutty. The bag of tricks mew has is starting to show its true colors and it's a pain in the ass to stop once it gets going with it's great general bulk and speed tier. Having to respect 9 bajillion options this thing might whip out is annoying to maneuver and it's shown good results lately to back up an A- placing.

-> B/B+
I'm so serious this thing is incredible man. Please, just stop what your doing and give it a shot I promise you it'll perform. Don't use protect it's a bad meme use Moonlight instead. Toxic Moonlight Foul play Wish/Twave/Taunt with Inner Focus it'll always put it work. In all seriousness the departure of Cobalion is very nice for Umbreon as it was one of it's main switchins, but with it gone the floodgates are mostly opened besides Okidogi's ugly mug. It has a good MU into stuff like HO, as it can answer Blastoise at high health without any tera memes stopping it which is huge, aswell as everything else in most if not all cases thanks to toxic and Foul play utility. it's bulk is phenomenal and it fills a fairly uncompetitive Dark slot, while providing toxic utility as well as wish passing utility outside of Jirachi. I've seen trepidations about using a Dark-Type that loses to CM psychics but I raise the fact that none of them really do besides Clear Smog RestTalk Muk, so let's not pretend like that's a huge detraction Krook cant even beat Slowbro before it teras LMAO. Seriously though, this is probably one of the most undersold pokemon on the VR next to a certain somebody I'll get to next, but this thing is fantastic at shutting things down.

-> A- / A
Genuinely, why is this thing still in the B ranks. I've seen the allegations that it's a tera hog and to that I raise the question, who cares? Who cares if it's a tera hog when it's putting in all star numbers every time you tera with it. You can build very easily with the assumption that Yanmega will be the pokemon you Tera with, and that's not a difficult task in the builder. Moltres leaving means we can switch away from Tera Electric and back to Tera Ground, which is fortunate considering the fact Goodra just arrived to stimmy it otherwise. It's an incredibly member of HOs toolkit, and has the benefit of pairing quite nicely into opposing HO as well. If you can keep rocks off (which again, isn't that difficult with well thought out leads on HO), it's phys bulk is actually serviceable in taking priority. It's far better than whats in both B+ and B ranks, so send it up.

-> A+
Grouping all of them together to rise to A+ as I don't want to make this post too long. Blastoise is stupid for the exact same reasons as before, and it's just as broken before shifts as it is now. The only change is H-Goodra incentivizing EQ sets more than before, which it was already using quite a bit anyways. It's one of HO most dangerous setup mons and is an extremely stupid Tera merchant that has no business not being suspected this month. Bisharp absolutely thrives with these shifts as we lost both Moltres and Cobalion, and gained nothing but food for it. Losing it's 2 best checks may need to start up the Uncomfortable Conversion about Bisharps presence in this tier, but we'll see where that one goes, for now though, it's undeniably gotten way better, and it deserves a rise to compensate. Reuniclus never shouldve dropped from A+ to begin with, it's set variety is not as high as in SS, but it's still got alot of tricks and the addition of Weezy-G lets Twave Knock sets find a comfortable partner to handle Krook for it on fatter builds. CM is still stupid, and other things like LO 3A are underrated too.

->B+
Cress is still stupid. I think alot of people have gotten more comfortable with these CM psychics by just slapping Encore Jirachi as a bandaid fix to these things presences. Because almost everytime I fight or use a team without Jirachi, CM Cress can win. Tera Poison Cress, and by proxy CM psychics in specific, have extremely middling counterplay that don't particularly blend together outside of Encore Jirachi. I'm not saying that tiering action should be taken per say, but I am saying that the CM psychics thing is a builder issue that I think warrants discussion still. That said B rank is still too low for Cresselia, and I find B+ is a better spot, the matchups it wins it WINS, really easily, and aren't that uncommon. As for Gastrodon, meet a hazard setting ground that isn't stonewalled by G-Weezing. Volcanion counter, can run spikes/rock, clear smog can be used to mess with the CM psychics, etc. Good mon and its gotten better with shifts, doing solidly against H-Goodra aswell. Cobalion, Moltres and Rhyperior left in exchange for Helmet G-Weez and Gooey H-Goodra, which isn't extremely favorable, but the rats have started to do a bit better than I've given them credit for, and G-Weezing isn't exactly difficult to make take a knock off, so I think B+ is fine. No Flame Body concerns is very nice though.

 

[Heatranator]

Going to agree with LBN's post above with all the rises, so I'll cover a few different mons that were not covered (and the new mons because I need to get my own thoughts out on different sets).

-> A
Hoodra (that's what I'll be calling it throughout this post) is quite a good mon in the tier. It's great special bulk means that it can take quite a few hits on that side and it doesn't crumple to every physical hit in the world. As stated above, there is the specs sets which do quite well, but another amazing set is AV. Now, you can either not be like me and invest more in special attack or defense, or you can be like me and invest all your poins in special defense and become the ultimate special wall. Even boosted special hits are doing little damage and super effective ones are not even close to OHKO'ing For reference, a +2 tera blast ground from thundy-i is doing 59% max, which is insane from a super effective hit (and yes, I have seen that set used). A more reasonable calc is +1 yanmega tera blast ground doing 46% max. It isn't really passive, as dragon tail can break some weaker subs (like raikou) and phaze things out, knock off can cripple things by removing items and draco meteor even uninvested does a chunk out of everything. I personally prefer flamethrower over flash cannon in order to hit steels, but that's a personal preference. There is also a lefties set with protect which I experimented a bit with, and it could do decently well but I think I need to test that more before I say its good. I think hoodra is a nice fit in this meta, and A tier is fair for it.

-> A-
Thank the lord we have more hazard control in order to not have to use the bike constantly. Geezing is a good mon in this tier, though there are some flaws which I'll get to. It's an amazing fighting check, which is great when mons such as okidogi, terrak and gapdos all can be severly threatening. It of course, gets access to defog and along with levitate is quite good against hazard stack. It isn't too passive with any of toxic/wisp and sludge/flamethrower/strange steam. It does run into some issues though. Without pain split, it can quite easily get chipped down especially if its item is knocked off and with pain split its moveset can feel constrained. There is also some experimentation with neutralising gas and misty surge geezing, but it feels like a mon which while it has flaws, can definetely do what its meant to do.

-> C+
I'm only giving this C+ rank because its a shiny new toy, realistically, its a C rank mon. I would like to ask, why use this over the more consistent thwackey? Like, g-terrain teams can actually be a threat and are semi consistent while this thing can't even do that. The best you can do is armarouge, maushold and some unburden mons. The first two are much better on a wider range on teams and thus don't have to use this bad mon, while the latter are used on other terrain teams and just are bad even on psyterrain due to everybody and there mother knowing about reversal strats on hitmonlee (grafaiai is better, but not by much). Standalone, its meh, not really good. C+ for this while we wait for people to drop it lmao.

-> B
With moltres leaving the tier, the spot for a fire/flying type and/or flame body mon just opened up, and talon is prime to fill that role. Talon has shown itself to be quite the versatile mon rn, as the only moves required are brave bird and roost, allowing the next two moves to be quite customisable. Defog is the common choice, though if your team has other hazard control, then dropping it is alright. Wisp is a good move in order to more reliably proc burns, sd+taunt can shut down quite a few teams while dealing great damage, flare blitz is a good secondary stab option, u-turn can get teammates in kinda reliably and overheat can suprise some physical defensive mons that think they can wall talon. It's just a good mon and its really shown itself in this moltres-less meta.

-> B+/A-
Chesnaught has shown itself to be quite a good mon in this meta, and it being B rank is simply unfair. With moltres gone, one of its best counters is gone and while talon is likely going to fill that role more, chesnaught is still thriving due to cobalion leaving, which it can somewhat fill the shoes off. It's a really good spiker in this meta, able to switch in on quite a few mons and get up a layer and some chip damage which is great for stopping these threats. It can then use knock off to remove items if hazards are all the way up or use body press to deal some good damage. Synthesis helps keep itself healthy over the course of a game. Bulletproof even makes it a temporary switch in to some mons like gengar that otherwise may give teams problems. There are also more niche options to consider in leech seed, spiky shield and wood hammer (which can chunk a lot of mons that think they can setup on ches) that suprise enemies. Chesnaught is just an overall good mon that should not be underrated.

-> B-
This is more of a callout post (don't have high enough replays though lol) but gallade feels good in the tier. Before the shifts, I thought gallade was underrated, but now it def is. There are two sets, the SD set and the AV set. The SD set I haven't used a lot but from what I've seen its amazing on sticky web teams as a devestating sweeper that can hit slowbro for big damage with leaf blade. The second, and the one I've used, is the AV set. Like the SD set, this set can lure in slowbro and deal big damage with leaf blade. However, this set has suprising special bulk that allows it to switch in and soak up many hits you think it couldn't. Gengar shadow ball? 67% max. Specs Magnezone flash cannon? 54% max. These are insane numbers it can tank, so any weaker hits aren't doing much. It of course, fires back powerful hits, as with just stabs+leaf blade, it hits all of hoodra, geezing and slowbro for massive damage, with not much in the meta liking to take its hits. Just a great mon that I think will thrive in this meta, maybe I'm rating this a bit too high, but its worth the troubles.

-> C+
Another callout post, but golurk can actually be good by running two different sets. The first one is a CB set, which nothing in the tier really wants to be switching into CB poltergeist and the few mons that can will be taking big damage from a e-quake or cc. The second is a rocker set, which I personally have used and is alright. It's able to stonewall terrakion and actually deal damage back to it, which helps a lot in that matchup. Dynamic punch can also be funny to cheese some wins (A salamence took 80% in confusion damage, killing itself one time lmao). An alright mon and C+ I think is a good starting point for it, maybe it goes even higher.

-> C
Final callout post (I think) but avalugg isn't horrible. It is very specific on the teams its used on, as its passive against some mons (slowbro mainly) and gets dropped by any super effective hit or even decently strong special hit, but for the first it can tera out into something like poison to gain resistances and for the later, just use teammates. It of course is a rapid spinner, which is going to cause some interest, but its also a decently reliable physical tank, as with recover+avalanche+bp, it can do decent damage to opponents while soaking up their hits. It def isn't the best mon ever, but it can be good on some teams and a spot in C rank is fair.

Edit: Forgot to mention this lmao, but maus should be A- tier. It can sometimes flounder into certain teams, but against others, its quite the devestating mon. I think B+ is still a little bit low, as it can be truly devestating once its checks are gone, so A- along with Mimikyu works well.

 

[fluff!!]

-> B (?)
Sometimes it walls half a team and consistently keeps hazards off the field, sometimes it does literally nothing. Ultimately a good addition to the tier, and having it in B rank feels right I think? We'll see how things play out for Geezing, it is extremely easy to abuse the sh!t out of this mon so I don't see it becoming top tier any time soon.

-> C+
Cheese HO mon that enables a cheesy playstyle. Can steal wins from unprepared teams, but can't really beat good teams. 'Nuff said.

< = > (Registeel to C+, Bronzong to B-)
Same mons but Bronzong has a Ground immunity which is quite rare in RU and has Psychic Noise. Bronzong also answers Revavroom and DD mence much more safely than Registeel. I understand that Registeel can actually switch into stuff like Horoark and Gengar, which is impossible to do for Bronzong, but the role compression Bronzong brings is a bit more difficult to find elsewhere and is more tailored to the current meta imo.

C -> B
Everyone agrees, moving on.

(and other C rank wincons) C -> don't change it... yet.
I won't advocate for a Lucario rise since there is no way it happens right now, but I will use this post to remind you that Nasty Plot + Shadow Ball still demolishes entire teams by itself. You could say the same thing about the other wincons in C rank, and... yes! It is more than due to actually try these wincons out instead of just theorymonning about them on Discord, as a lot of them look like B tier material, but just aren't given a chance. (Look at me in the eyes and tell me that there is a 3 ranks difference between Feraligatr and Lucario. Do it.)


ps: Chesnaught unmon it does not deserve to rise @ me i triple dare you

 

[Miyami~~~]

some housekeeping

B to A
I don't think anyone will push back on this, Yanmega is broken and outside of blastoise is probably the HO mon most likely to get a suspect. Get him into the A ranks!

B to B+
Like Yanmega, but a bit less mandatory on HO. What it does is irreplaceable there and it's one of those things that just helps cause The Problem(tm) currently plaguing us, even if too a lesser degree.

C to B+/A-
insane how one tier shift could break so favourably for one formerly bad mon the tier below us. I think B's actually kinda low but there'll be time to raise it more later. It handles Blastoise until Blastoise figures out how to tera to beat it, it pairs unbelievably well with hoodra and geezing, it doesn't get flinched which is actually insane right now with rachi yanmega and the car running around and if you encounter a setup swepeer not named dogi there's a decent chance Umbreon can at least wall it long enough to toxic/foul play it. Great mon, hoping it rises from NU in three months!

NEW to A
having industrial pollution come in with the potential to displace the bike feels weirdly poetic. It's got a ton of move variety between tspikes, double status, pain split, and defog and an insane defensive profile that lets it remove hazards fairly easily and consistently. A might be a slight overrank since what it can't hit it really can't hit (especially if it's not carrying the right status) but its combination of defensive utility and the ability to switch into like half the tier means this is gonna be a big part of the meta for sure.

NEW to A-
Wildly good defensive profile, pairs super well with the above two and is at least decently able to move the game forward just due to the high BP or utility of the moves it clicks alongside having a really good movepool. It can even go on the offensive with specs or a (probably gimmicky) acidpress set, so it has real set diversity to account for on top of its best set having moveslot diversity.

NEW to C
I'm sure someone will figure out what to do with this eventually but until then psychic terrain seems very not good. Blocking slither seems nice though.

C to C+
Want to punish Umbreon teams as hard as possible?

Hide

Lucario @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / Whatever
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave / Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse

Behold, a special attacker that sets up on Umbreon ~~and is not named Reuniclus~~. if Umbry/Hoodra/Geezing hangs around this snaps that core in half (Barring any teras) and that has to be worth something since it doesn't look like umbreon's gonna go anywhere.

A to A+
please ban this


we have armarogue in the tier and it's good on its own already and now we have a better indeedee surely one of these idiots does something

 

[Heatranator]

So, with a VR update happening soon apparently (thank god), I thought I should make some last minute noms.

C+ -> B- (or B tier)
I've been using vaporeon quite a lot recently, and damn is that mon good. Vaporeon is a role compression machine, able to take on many top tier threats and still have reliable recovery. It of course, helps immensly in the rain matchup, as unlike volcanion, it can constantly keep itself healthy over the course of a game and doesn't fold to any random strong special hit from kingdra and friends. It can even take a thunder easily from kilowattrel and respond back with scald or reposition. Now, if it was just the rain matchup, it would prob still be C+ tier, but it helps in so much more. It can switch into slowbro scald and force them to use a psychic move, allowing a potential dark type to come in much easier without fearing a scald burn. It can also don either covert cloak or tera dark to basically wall slowbro forever, and even use calm mind to set up on bro, which isn't an easy thing to do (insert joke about NU and how things never really change). It also helps against blastoise, being able to take on any non tera blast electric variant easily and even having a chance to live one t-blast electric from full with the normal spread, or it can go a fully specially defensive route in order to easily live a t-blast electric and haze off the damage. From here, vaporeon can fish for scald burns and deny toise any setup opportunities. It also helps against yanmega, easily being able to take any +1 attack and respond with haze, making yanmega a lot less threatening. From here, it can potentially 2hit ko yanmega and keep itself healthy with wish. Finally, it helps against most calm mind users that use stored power, which potentially includes armarouge (can easily take +1 energy ball), necrozma, reuniclus (I once faced a acid armour stored power reun, it was annoying as hell) and cresselia. Vaporeon can also help against most physical attacker due to scald being a frankly busted move. Now, the main issue with vapo is that it can sometimes be a bit passive and is free entry to volcanion. While these are limiting factors, I don't think they nearly are as bad as they seem. Most special threats don't like a scald burn, and they can't really setup on vapo due to haze saying 'nope' to any attempts. The other issue is having free entry to volcanion, and frankly, its not as bad as it seems. While vapo can't touch volcanion, volcanion can't do a whole lot to it too. It has to use taunt and one of its coverage moves in order to actually deal with vapo, as otherwise vapo just walls it eternally, and this is very telegraphed and allows you to switch to something that can take that coverage move and threaten volc back, something like gengar. Alternatively, if you really don't want volcanion coming in, then shadow ball is a potential 4hit ko on volc, though you do give up on haze which is big.

I'll also drop a core that works really well, vapo+hoodra. They synergise perfectly together, with hoodra handling the electric and grass types that threaten it while being more offensively threatening, while vaporeon can cripple the physical attackers used to handle hoodra and can use wish in order to keep hoodra healthy. A very good pairing that works wonders in battle.

So, to TLDR this, vaporeon can help against:

• Rain
• Blastoise
• Yanmega
• Slowbro
• Stored power sweepers
• Physical attackers potentially

This is a good number of threats that vaporeon can handle, and I think it should definetely rise, this mon is underated AF. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

C -> C+ (or B-)
When using toxicroak for TOTW, I felt that it was a very good mon and not deserving of C rank. Obviosuly, it is the single best mon against rain, with even kilowattrel being potentially OHKO'd by +2 sucker punch and kingdra by tera dark +2 sucker punch. It isn't weak to any of barra's coverage moves (besides the rare psychic fangs) and can passively heal if rain is active. Even outside the rain macthup, it isn't really a bad mon. While it isn't the fastest, it can still get the jump on a fast majority of the meta and deal incredible damage, and most faster threats are ko'd by +2 sucker punch. While it does have its issues (primarily frailty, needing to get a boost and not getting the OHKO's it needs even at +2), it more then makes up for it.

B- -> B
I used to be an entei hater, but after seeing the light, I can no longer deny, entei is so good. The CB set, while good, can feel a little exploitable with tera ghost mons and its choice lock meaning early on bulky waters can simply just switch in. However, the Adamant HDB set is absolutely killer. It deals massive damage to most mons in the meta (only really slowbro can truly safely switch in) and can still switch up its moves. A personal favourite move of mine on entei is double edge, as with tera normal, you can decimate any bulky mons that have been chipped, while still cleaning up faster mons due to e-speed's priority. Entei can kinda just do well into every structure, and I think it should rise because of that.

B -> B+
Very quick nom, but gyarados is much better then people think. The t-blast flying set is bad, don't use that set, instead use the DD+T-wave+Waterfall+E-quake set, which is able to cripple its checks early on with t-wave, act as a defensive stopgap to dangerous mons and then sweep through a weakened team lategame. Very good set that y'all should try, it can cheese wins while not being a tera hog.

Also heracross to C rank at least, that mon is goated with a spikes set.

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

New additions

-> B+
-> A-
-> B

Rises

A -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B-> B+
B-> A-
B-> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B
C+ -> B+
C -> C+
UR-> C

drops

S -> A+
B -> B-
B -> B-
C+ -> C

We won't be doing reasonings this time but in case you have any questions, we would gladly answer them in here or #vr-discussion on RU server!

 

[LBN]

I want a formal explanation on how the runner up suspect candidate of yanmega is still outside of the fuckin A ranks after half a year of people saying its too low

 

[Forest Guardian]

Id like to know why Flygon rose and why Mowtom only hit C.

 

[Miyami~~~]

mfw yanmega is apparently both broken and deserving of a suspect and also somehow only as good as fucking hilligant

 

[fluff!!]

While there is a lot to talk about on this VR (the previous one was better imo), a lot of the things I would argue about are only 1 tier off fro what I would do; However, as other users have pointed out, Yanmega's placement is, at best, questionable... Yanmega has been a HO staple for a WHILE now, comes in discussion about potential suspects constantly, and it is widely agreed upon that it is one of the main elements that make HO controversial. And yet, it sits in the same tier as fucking Politoed, Zoroark-H and god damn Flygon?????? Even Maushold is ranked higher, despite having less push for a suspect and being much easier to handle both in game and in the builder?

I need public reasoning from the VR team.

 

[GoldCat]

3 B+, 2 A-, 2 A, 1 B gives an average rank of B+. That’s the reason.

 

[Eroil]

Ditto transformed into a crab this is insane

 

[LBN]

Alright, talkin in VR chat got me pissed off at some of these placements in general so I think it's time for another 1am LBN essay.

B+ -> A-/A
If i have to write one more paragraph about this pokemon I'm going to punch a wall. Accordin to sources (I typed this before GK posted one of the most worthless posts of all time), Yanmega's vote spread was 2 As, 2 A-, 2 B+ and 1 B. To this I say, who the hell voted B rank on yanmega show yourself. I've tried wrapping my head around that type of opinion and I genuinely don't get how you can play this tier and come to that conclusion it's just not possible. Maybe if you never leave home without mid mainstay rotom-heat, you could reach that. Anybody else has no excuse. It's one of HOs finest, even among the likes of Revavroom, it's danger levels is amazing. I've written about this thing so much that I can't even say anything new. To each person who voted B / B+ for this thing, use it to get reqs. If your VR council you should be getting off your ass to get reqs anyways but just use this thing. I promise you, it's stupid good. I've been saying put this in A ranks since fucking MARCH and I'm more and more vindicated with each week passing.

3 B+, 2 A-, 2 A, 1 B gives an average rank of B+. That’s the reason.

As for this post, I still sincerely think that post was made with absolutely 0 good faith, and you knew god damn well what everybody meant when we were asking for why. It'd be really nice if you could actually yknow, contribute to this thread considering you have posted fuck and all in this thread since it's inception, but that depressingly can be said for almost every single member of the VR council. And I say this specifically to each of the VR council members, post your thoughts more often. Even if it's just 1 mon it doesn't have to be groups of paragraphs like I do, but it'd be nice to actually get to hear your thoughts without me having to name search through the fucking discord for opinions.

B -> C
Meet grand duke of copium. What does this Pokémon actually accomplish? As a volcanion check, we have alternative options. Noivern, Salamence, Slowbro, Cyclizar, Vaporeon, and Gastrodon all provide more for a team while not being passive and relying on dragon pulse to actually deal damage. Beyond that... it just doesn't do anything. Scald burns are not impressive in the tier where slowbro is infinitely superior. Even if i tried to argue for competitive memes as defog deterrence we have Empoleon for that.

-> UR
When was the last time anyone has used these. Rain isn't even that good what are we doing keeping this paperweight on the VR it's not good. Dragalge functions as a bargain bin H-Goodra without any of the coverage needed to hit Jirachi, no knock. But instead had flip turn and Tspikes. Which... I'm sorry this isn't the sales pitch you think it is. I'd rather use H-Goodra for anything I'd use Dragalge for. Inteleon has the defensive value of a wet tissue paper, and it's offensive niche of a fast special water type is squandered by the fact that it is never killing Empoleon or Goodra in it's fucking lifetime. Need to stop kidding ourselves with Cincinno it is NOT good like that. Dogshit Maushold it is not moving the masses, it's barely if ever used just use the Mice.

A -> A-/B+
Probably my most controversial take, but this pokemon is not good like that. Some of our best pokemon are flying types, and hippowdon has to make HEAVY concessions or delegate to pack something to hit them. Dropping whirlwind makes you abusable and loses you the ability to phase out problems getting out of control that you cant actually kill like Tera Bisharp. Dropping rocks is probably the least annoying, but that means you just have a physical tank that doesn't have any utility beyond sand stream which... isn't bad but it's not the most convincing sales pitch. G-Weezing dropping doesn't do it any favors, as it's hazard removal that completely hard counters hippo and beats it 1v1 with ease. Its a good helmet user but pokemon like Maushold have started teching Bullet Seed to get around it, and it's always getting knocked by things like Krook, Cyclizar and thundurus so who really cares. It's not bad and certainly has it's value, but A rank is really overselling it.

-> C+ / B-
I'm surprised Gallade didn't get nommed in any capacity, but from what I can tell it's because they simply forgot, which yknow what that's fine. Gallade is a fighting type that dogwalks Weezing-G and Slowbro, and its a fantastic wallbreaker that can also change gears to obliterate offensive teams with an Agility set. Item choices like Lum berry and even Scope lens are good picks because Gallade doesn't need an offensive item to kill everything, so playing for longevity with even things like Leftovers is good. Lucario is definitely better than everybody in C ranks, except Rotom-Mow but he got ranked pretty conservatively. Extreme Speed has seen a boost in value with the likes of Yanmega running around as a priority that can actually kill it. Slowbro may be an annoyance, but beyond Slowbro SD Luke is very very good, and getting slowbro low isn't the most demanding task in the world, as that mon comes into knocks all the time. Some support goes a long way, and Inner focus has it's uses for things like Krook and Mence too.

A- -> B+
I'm sorry Necrozma I love you, but Umbreon stocks on the rise have pushed you down pretty hard. H-Goodra / Umbron / G-Weez is one of the tiers best balance cores, and Necrozma completely flails into Umbreon in almost all scenarios without significant assistance. It is a good sweeper beyond that, but It definitely no longer feels like an A- rank contender. Slowbro being #1 also does not help it's DD niche. Meteor beam is still solid but it's not taking my breath away.

C -> C-
There's alot of C ranks. And I do not believe that all ranks are made equal, thus I think the creation of C- is in order. Forretress is gligar for people who don't want to beat anything. It's very ok into Terrakion HO it's not good it's very ok. Thats the best you'll get out of me. I've tried to make him work but honestly its like SS Tentacruel where it dabbles into like 7 roles and half-asses all of them. Role Compression can only get you so far. Hail is a playstyle that isn't terrible but, I do not think it's on the level of things like Lucario, Rotom-Mow, or Deo-D. As for the rest of C-?

-> C-
Virizion has a good niche of being a fighting type that beats slowbro, along with some other tidbits. Zen headbutt/Stone edge lets you pick between Okidogi/G-Weez/Fezand/Slither, and Noivern/Talonflame/Salamence/Thundurus-I. It's speed tier is very nice, and it completely shuts down Wo-Chien and forces it to make uncomfortable clicks to give you free boosts. It's not that bad, and replays will be edited in once I get some. Oricorio-Sensu is a solid setup sweeper on HO and some BO teams, and can run away with games as I'm sure is known by now. Revelation dance being basically a super tera blast also helps. Galvantula is just, a webs bot but Webs have some value with mons like Gallade being emboldened by it.

B -> B-
All of these feel inferior to the rest of B-. Azelf isn't horrible but it doesn't really do anything particularly special for a team, and it's paperweight bulk leaves it relying on levitate for any sort of defensive integrity, and H-Goodra can switchin into special ebelt sets for days. Quagsire is just not a B rank pokemon and it realistically never was sorry. Muk-Alola has fallen off when people realized we have better ways to beat slowbro than running knock clear smog resttalk. Tera poison aplenty because of Okidogi also means this thing will just flail into alot of matchups. Krook doesn't help either. Palossand is still a solid pokemon, but with Defog Conk, G-Weezing, Noivern and Talonflame picking up, spinblocking is less of a valuable utility than it was before, still good into Okidogi though.

B -> B+
Specs Infernape is an absolute monster. Specs Tera fire overheat just does horseshit levels of damage, and combined with options like Switcheroo and Vacuum wave, it has a surprising amount of variety even in the specs set. It has other sets too, SD sets can pick off a weakened slowbro, and NP sets can simply blast right past slowbro with a +2 Grass knot. But specs is personally my favorite set, with spikes support its ridiculously effective, and switcheroo lets you threaten to fuck over pokemon like vincume in games like this one. Registeel is an incredibly stalwart vs things like Bisharp, is a good rocker, and ironpress lets you clean up games with nice consistency. Slowbro is annoying but again, it's not the hardest pokemon in the world to cripple or knock down a peg. It's great into offensive and Tera lets you 1v1 things you have no business 1v1ing like Zapdos-Galar. Use it, it's really fuckin good. Feraligatr is getting nommed to B+ for 2 reasons. 1: Blastoise is probably leaving and thus this thing will start popping up more often on HO. 2: Unlike Gyarados it's not reliant on Tera to muscle past Slowbro, and also unlike Gyarados it has options. SD sets with Aqua jet are an underexplored facet of Gatr's play and can be nice to grab kills it usually wouldn't be able to get. You sacrifice coverage, but it can be worth it in some teams, and Jet utility is quite nice with Yanmega being as goofy as it is.

-> B/B+
Extreme Speed as i mentioned with lucario, is a valuable resource right now with Yanmega being lame as shit, and Entei's is the strongest around. CB and Boots entei have seen an uptick in usage. Personally I prefer CB, as Double-Edge can just cleave through slowbro, but Boots has its merit. It's mostly self-explanitory we know how entei is used, but it's a good and slept on part of the tier.

B+ -> B
This thing is not good enough to warrant B+. Moltres leaving would be nice if we didn't get Galarian Weezing in the same breath. Okidogi stocks are through the fucking moon, and it's just not getting seen when we have a fuckton of fighting types to pick from. Slither wing, Infernape, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Okidogi, Mienshao, Zap-Galar and even lucario and Gallade. They all bring some unique trait and what Lilligant brings isn't exceptional enough to get it placed this high.

 

[Juanardo23]

Yanmega same tier as Flygon

 

[Heatranator]

Going to get my thoughts out about some of the placements.

B+ -> A-/A
Not going to talk about this for too long, but WHY THE FUCK DID THIS NOT GET RANKED HIGHER. Again, somebody apparently voted for this thing to go to B rank, which you have to be straight up not be playing the meta in order to think that. And before somebody cries about "oh, you are being rude because somebody disagrees with your opinion", then no, I am not. I am being blunt about the fact that a mon that was in talks about being suspect tested is ranked in B+ rank, who is extremely controversial, and anybody with half a brain would not think its B or B+ rank. I can say something like revavroom is definetely A rank while not seeing as broken. Yanmega is not on the same level as flygon or amoonguss, please fix this immediately.

C+ -> B-/B
Made a post about it before, but it didn't get nommed so I'll say it again, vaporeon has a ton of good matchups into top tier mons. Rain, Blastoise, Yanmega, Slowbro, Suicune, some physical attackers and stored power sweepers. It pairs beautifully with hoodra, with both being able to cover up each other's weaknesses quite well. Scald, wish and protect are standard, but the last moveslot is customisable. Haze is the standard, but roar is something I've liked using that can stop setup sweepers while getting hazard chip. Calm mind can turn vaporeon into quite an annoying sweeper that feels difficult to take down and flip turn can help vaporeon pivot into teammates in order for them to receive wishes. Just an overall great mon that can carry in some very important matchups.

B -> B+
I before thought that rotom heat was mid, but after playing against it a ton, I can say it's better then I gave it credit for. Rotom heat can volt switch on a lot of things, as the ground types of the tier don't want to switch into overheat besides Swampert and flygon, who are only alright, and cyclizar is absolutely crippled by t-wave. Pain split can be an annoying move for the opponent and keep rotom-heat healthy. It does hate knock off and can struggle into faster paced teams, but it feels better then B rank.

B -> B-/C+
I know this just got ranked, but indeedee ain't anywhere close to B rank, I'm sorry. I know people have been hyping up psyterrain a whole lot, but it's not worth it. Priority immunity is cool and all, but in some matches it doesn't even come into practice. Yeah, an armarouge or maushold that you can't priority kill sounds scary, but in practice it is just those two. The unburden users are not going to be decimating teams anytime soon and every other abuser is fine on other playstyles that don't use a mon that is trash. Sure, encore and healing wish is good. But that's about it.... In a vacuum, psyterrain sounds good, but why am I using it over other Ho styles? They all are much more consistent, and a downgrade is more then fair.

UR -> C
I was going to nom skuntank in this position, but I feel that sableye is a much easier mon for people to understand to rank. Sableye has been featured on Moltracer's stall sample and after testing it out on my own stall team, it is def worthy of being ranked. Sableye's claim to fame is prankster and a pretty amazing typing. Sableye is able to use prankster will-o-wisp in order to cripple any physical attackers and allow it's teammates to more easily handle those attackers. It can also use prankster encore to lock an opponent into a setup move or a move that Sableye is immune to/resists, which can shut down some mons that require a turn to set up. Sableye also has prankster recover, making it much bulkier then it's stats may show. Sableye can then use knock off to remove items from the opponent to help rack up passive damage. And since it uses prankster, it can invest fully into its defensive stats to make sure it can take more hits. Sableye does have its issues though. It's exclusive mainly to stall teams, has mediocre special bulk (and can't take neutral boosted physical attacks) and is stonewalled by dark types who are immune to its prankster moves. However, it provides a lot to the teams it's on (dominating maushold and conkeldurr is massive) and it being ranked is fair.

 

[Serviperhater]

C->C+/B-
I’d like to nominate deo-d up a sub rank or two. i feel as if it’s just as good as froslass if not maybe a bit worse. it has just enough bulk to live any unboosted hit in the tier and red card it out and then it has stealth rocks over froslass. while it’s taunt is slower and it can’t spin block its ability to get up multiple layers consistently every game and functions well on hazard stack offense and ho hazard stack.

 

[TheFranklin]

I would like to address the concerns raised about the placement of Yanmega in the VR.
The VR council voted as follows for Yanmega: 3 B+, 2 A-, 2 A, 1 B. However, the B was by mistake and was actually meant to be B+. This will be corrected soon and bumps up Yanmega to A-.

Reading some of the comments above gives me the impression that not everyone fully understands what VR stands for. VR is based on two main points:
1. How easy is it to build with a pokemon (aka how splashable is it). The easier a mon is to fit into a team the higher its VR. The more support a pokemon needs the lower its VR.
2. How well the pokemon (and thus also the teamstyles) performs. The better the pokemon performs, the higher its VR should be.

The first point seems to be forgotten by some people.

mfw yanmega is apparently both broken and deserving of a suspect and also somehow only as good as fucking hilligant

Whether a pokemon is broken does not have to mean it has high VR (as a side note the council almost
unanimously thinks yanmega does not deserve a suspect, but that is besides the point). A broken mon usually performs well, but even that doesn't have to be the case. This is thus only touching on half of the second part of VR.

While there is a lot to talk about on this VR (the previous one was better imo), a lot of the things I would argue about are only 1 tier off fro what I would do; However, as other users have pointed out, Yanmega's placement is, at best, questionable... Yanmega has been a HO staple for a WHILE now, comes in discussion about potential suspects constantly, and it is widely agreed upon that it is one of the main elements that make HO controversial. And yet, it sits in the same tier as fucking Politoed, Zoroark-H and god damn Flygon?????? Even Maushold is ranked higher, despite having less push for a suspect and being much easier to handle both in game and in the builder?

I need public reasoning from the VR team.

I think the comparison with maushold is an excellent example to demonstrate VR consisting of two parts (eventhough they are in the same tier now). Again, firstly a pokemon having "less push for a suspect" (I don't think that's true, but not relevant in this case) is completely unrelated to VR. Secondly, Yanmega and Maushold are both mostly seen on HO. However, Maushold can work outside of HO easier than Yanmega, as it provides more utility to BOs in a ghost immune and hazard control. For that reason, you see Maushold more often on BO structures than Yanmega. Personally, I have put Maushold on BOs multiple times, whereas I have never done that with Yanmega.

This demonstrates the reason why Yanmega is very unlikely to ever get a VR above A-. It can almost exclusively be used on HO, meaning it is only splashable on HO. The only reason why Yanmega is now rising in VR and actually acquiring the A- is because of how well HO (and Yanmega on HO structures) performs in the current meta.

 

[Juanardo23]

Flygon is unplayable. Hippo, Weezing galar and Chesnaught, the most used defensive pokemon, laugh at him. It should be C tier at best, there's no point in raising it.

Yanmega B+ at the same time as Flygon makes no sense at all. It should be A tier at least. In every game Yanmega gets at least 1 kill and 1 tera if you dont run one of the Followings: AV H-Goodra, Empoleon (Gets destroyed by Tera Ground), Chansey (Does nothing in return), Rotom Heat.

If Terrakion and Zapdos Galar are A-, Mienshao can't be in the same tier.

Zoroark does exactly the same as Gengar but better, and Gengar is above Zoroark.

I don't understand what Mew is doing so high up.

EDIT: People in 1200 ELO and people that copy my teams for ladder and even RU Circuit reacting to my message.

Before reacting please tell me where I am wrong while I see how you get destroyed by Yanmega and Flygon does nothing in every match he is in.