Is just a close-up of Tinkaton's Hammer. Also, it's far from the only gag I put there.
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Scarlet and Violet UU Post-Home Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Monky25
- Start date
- Status
Hello VR enthusiasts, the VR team has conducted a large-scale update this time by voting on every Pokémon on the VR before the changes from DLC via new moves take effect. Expect another vote later this month to account for the developments that arise from the changes in moves. Additionally, both vivalospride and Askov have joined the VR team! Be sure to say your congratulations! Now, here are the VR results!
New additions
to A
to B+
to C
to C
to C
Rises
from A+ to S
from A to S-
from A- to A
from B+ to A-
from B+ to A-
from B- to A-
from B- to B
from C+ to B
from C to C+
Drops
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A to A-
from A to B+
from A to B+
from A- to B+
from A- to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
Before we get to talking about the usual, I’d like to say we have now got new amazing art in the OP of the thread done by the amazingly very talented Kolohe! It’s an extremely beautiful work of art and the VR team all thank you for your effort in making this. Be sure to check out the post here!
Due to the size of these changes, the VR team will open the thread for questions about any changes for the next 36 hours, where a member of the VR team will be sure to respond to provide clarity. Please do not repeat questions, make any nominations, or post one liners that are not related to the update/just random stuff. They will be deleted. After this, the thread will be locked until the changes from DLC happen; it will likely be locked for the first few days to prevent premature nominations. We hope you enjoyed this update and look forward to the new meta!
New additions
to A to B+ to C to C to CRises
from A+ to S from A to S- from A- to A from B+ to A- from B+ to A- from B- to A- from B- to B from C+ to B from C to C+Drops
from A+ to A from A+ to A from A+ to A from A to A- from A to B+ from A to B+ from A- to B+ from A- to B+ from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B- from B to B- from B to B- from B to B- from B to B- from B to B- from B to C+ from B- to C+ from B- to C+ from B- to C+ from B- to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to URBefore we get to talking about the usual, I’d like to say we have now got new amazing art in the OP of the thread done by the amazingly very talented Kolohe! It’s an extremely beautiful work of art and the VR team all thank you for your effort in making this. Be sure to check out the post here!
Due to the size of these changes, the VR team will open the thread for questions about any changes for the next 36 hours, where a member of the VR team will be sure to respond to provide clarity. Please do not repeat questions, make any nominations, or post one liners that are not related to the update/just random stuff. They will be deleted. After this, the thread will be locked until the changes from DLC happen; it will likely be locked for the first few days to prevent premature nominations. We hope you enjoyed this update and look forward to the new meta!
Why did Skeledirge not rise? Was it Ursaluna?
Why is there S and S-?
Why is there S and S-?
Ursaluna was indeed one of the reasons to why Skele wasn't ranked higher since now we have a pokemon that can actually punish Skeledirge mindlessly clicking Wisp, and while it's still a pretty good poke, the two new additions to the tier (Ursaluna and Hoopa) aren't really friendly to it (at least without teraing)
Regarding the S ranks, i think Monky25 can explain better but it's just that while both Iron Treads and Tornadus-T are S Rank, there's a gap in how good they are, so we felt like a subrank for Treads would be better since there's also a gap in ''viability'' between it and stuff in A+ to justify it being above them
A few questions:
Why did Lokix rise? Is it because of Hoopa-U? Do you think it was underrated before the drops and people simply started using it more because of Hoppa and Moon?
What's the niche Decidueye has to put it in C rank?
Why did Zarude raise 3 whole subranks all the way from B- to A-?
Why did Lokix rise? Is it because of Hoopa-U? Do you think it was underrated before the drops and people simply started using it more because of Hoppa and Moon?
What's the niche Decidueye has to put it in C rank?
Why did Zarude raise 3 whole subranks all the way from B- to A-?
I'll try to answer the first point:
Lokix has always been an interesting mon, being a good pick if you wanted to put pressure and punish hyper offense users/revenge kill frailer mons with first impression. One of the things holding it back in previous months was the popularity of Talonflame, which quad resists its bug stabs + can punish it with a Flame Body burn, which just shuts Lokix down for the game. With Talonflame no longer being used much, Lokix can click buttons and put in work more easily without fear + yeah, the introduction of Hoopa-U does help its case quite a bit.
Overall, I think it just became more splashable in teams, since its main deterrent is not as common nowadays
Belligoat
Anyways treads and torn in S feels right i guess considering they do so much and are so damn common (Except for when I use torn, where it is D rank because it never lands anything).
Overall I agree with the changes.
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1. Goro has a fine response to answer the Lokix part. I'll also just add how Lokix has always been capable of limiting the effectiveness of offensive playstyles because of how powerful First Impression is off Tinted Lens, it alone being an amazing safety net against HO etc. Hoopa dropping didn't really change anything, it just ends up being a victim to Lokix being a solid mon rn. Just don't use CB, locking into FI does not feel good o.o
2. I personally voted to abstain on Decidueye only because I have not used it post shifts. It does the same thing it did before with Defog sets. Defensively it can answer Quack, Breloom, Treads, and Thundy. Despite being able to do all this it can obviously be punished by the aforementioned Pokemon with the right coverage. I used to find it had slightly awkward 4MSS too, but regardless most members deemed it worthy of being ranked again for these positive traits.
3. I believe we intended to raise Zarude a while ago but we never pushed it through with the mini update, the one before that I think most people played it safe as Zarude was just super under-explored, which makes sense because Meowscarada was dominating the tier just shortly before. With it gone Zarude has shown how effective it is as a pivot and setup breaker/cleaner. I've been most impressed with Bulk Up sets because it becomes a rather difficult Pokemon to revenge kill albeit being tera-reliant at times. Depending on the tera like Ghost or Fire you can find chances to get multiple turns to setup, which is ideal if using Trailblaze. It also removes the weakness to First Impression. The setup sets are very flexible with double recovery, 3 attacks, 2 attacks + Synth, etc. You will find it kind of plays a similar role to Iron Leaves, though it has the ability to setup more than once throughout a game more easily, usually letting it fit onto other builds.
Jungle Healing, alongside tera lets it pivot into and take advantage of Skeledirge. It also removes the fear of switching into Quagsire and being poisoned and worn down. The only other thing I can really mention is the bulk is amazing, making it a difficult mon to wear down when it has access to reliable healing. While Dark/Grass isn't an amazing defensive typing, Zarude has a solid Speed tier to make up for it notably putting it faster than Thundy-T.
Hopefully, this answers your questions and perhaps some other members will chime in later if I missed something.
These are some great changes! It's nice to see the pre-home staples who fell off getting more accurate ranks. A few questions, though:
1. Why is Ursaluna ranked so highly? I find it to have a lot of similar problems to Hoopa, except it's even harder to fit on teams. Slow, no priority, chipped down quite easily... It definitely has potential, but through what I've experimented with and what I've seen others use, it's just too easy to overwhelm, even when running Leftovers and plenty of bulk. If you have any good teams with it, please send them, I'd love to be proven wrong here.
2. Why did Hisuian Arcanine fall?
1. Why is Ursaluna ranked so highly? I find it to have a lot of similar problems to Hoopa, except it's even harder to fit on teams. Slow, no priority, chipped down quite easily... It definitely has potential, but through what I've experimented with and what I've seen others use, it's just too easy to overwhelm, even when running Leftovers and plenty of bulk. If you have any good teams with it, please send them, I'd love to be proven wrong here.
2. Why did Hisuian Arcanine fall?
Someone explain Gardevoir to me, I have not yet seen it on the ladder.
- Ursaluna is ranked this high because it's a big threat in the tier due to its offensive presence and raw bulk. You really need to use powerful breakers/sweepers if you're willing to OHKO that Pokémon which isn't always easy, and this is even worst when paired with Tera which allows Ursaluna to flip a ton of match-ups depending of its Tera type (Ghost, Fighting, Fairy or even Grass). Thus Ursaluna can be really great to trade vs opponent's team. It's also a physical threat which isn't bothered by status, especially Will-O-Wisp which makes it alongside its typing, a really great blanket check to Skeledirge which can't really WoW freely. People have been messing with Bulk Up variants and those tend to be the more dangerous variants of sets of Ursaluna since it allows it to deal massive damages without sacrificing too much staying power (unlike Flame Orb sets). Overall Ursaluna is a powerhouse which can also act as a blanket check to a lot of Pokémon in the higher ranks like Iron Treads, Skeledirge, Arcanine-H, Tinkaton, Muk-A, Lokix etc.. (and this add up even more with Tera which allows Ursaluna to check even special threats such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T, but also passive shits such as Gastrodon or Slowking).
- Mostly because Rapid Spin Quaquaval has become even more dominant (as well as setup sweepers variants alongside Tera Ghost) + Ursaluna can 1v1 it in basically almost any scenario. The popularity of threats such as Iron Treads, Basculegion, Gastrodon and Zapdos-G also doesn't help either.
Gardevoir isn't a common Pokémon at all but it does have a niche as a Choice Scarf user thanks to a decent speed tier + Fairy typing + Trace which allows it to come on things such as Tornadus-T or Thundurus-T and copy their abilities. It's also an offensive threats which can bring some utility to its mates thanks to Trick and Healing Wish.
Why did Sylveon rise? I've never seen one on a team, and Scream Tail just seems like the superior defensive Fairy overall.
Why did Cyclizar fall two ranks? It's definitely not on par with the A-ranks anymore, but it's still a solid offensive pivot, and AV Cyclizar is basically one of our only reliable checks to Basculegion-F.
Why did Cyclizar fall two ranks? It's definitely not on par with the A-ranks anymore, but it's still a solid offensive pivot, and AV Cyclizar is basically one of our only reliable checks to Basculegion-F.
Why did scizor drop? It’s still the best offensive steel by far and idk if any of the meta shifts were that unkind to it. Is the rise of lokix that impactful or was it just overranked to begin with?
I haven't really used sylveon so people that used it can give you a better answer but as far as my limited knowledge about it goes it's because of its lack of psychic typing which allows it to check/scout vs stuff like Basculegion, Hydreigon and Hoopa while being slightly less passive since its Hyper Voice (+ potentially CM) hits non-resists fairly hard and have slightly more bulk since Scream Tail usually runs max speed, and while Scream can theorically go bulkier it then loses out on one of its main assets imo which is being something that can take hits from some dangerous pokes while being able to sort of threaten then back by being faster.
Regarding Cyclizar, it's mostly because Iron Treads and Quaquaval have sort of taken its place on teams as a spinner and while it's not bad by any means (fast pivot + having the luxury to spin + having a good typing to check some prominent threats), it has fallen a bit because pokes that it used to check has also fallen a bit in usage (Basculegion and Skeledirge kinda) and prominent pokes that are getting more usage are usually something that matchups well vs cycli 1v1 (quaqua, treads, arcanine, ursaluna, even stuff like volcanion and torn can brute force through it if they're fine w getting knocked off)
speaking for myself i also disagree with scizor's drop, but from what i saw it's because we got some more checks to it that naturally fits on your common teams (treads, quaqua getting more popular, tera steel torn, volcanion...), people being more aware of prepping to it (even if it still can take some games out of nowhere vs 2/3 decent checks to it) and with the usual Bulky Offenses getting a bit more fast paced it's been harder for scizor to get as much turns as it used to get vs some passive BOs using pokes like Scream Tail
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Its official, tornadus-t is our new tier king! Enjoy it while it lasts, as there is a very real possibility that tornadus-t gets knock off and defog back from dlc down the line, which could in turn cause OU to take it.
So enjoy torn-t's reign over UU everyone! Torn-T truly is following in Lando-T's footsteps!
So enjoy torn-t's reign over UU everyone! Torn-T truly is following in Lando-T's footsteps!
HoopaU (and probably Moon for the 1 day it wasn't BL) letting Lokix earn that usage this month
a pokemon's usage is not directly correlated with its viability. a banned pokemon does not effect lokix's viability
I find it kinda interesting how some mons got better in the face the home introductions, most notably , but also and
These mons really did not like the pre home meta, hated all the and fat balances, hated the sand and its access to spikes weren't as valuable due to the the existence of 
who set them easily, and didnt have much for applicable roles.
However, after the home meta arrived, the meta shifted in a way that these 3 loved.
The super fat balance cores that always annoyed it and became much less prevalent, as well as scary threats like , 
, , etc. entered the tier. Making lokix's tinted lens first impression a lot better for picking off threats. Not to mention the fact that lokix matches up a lot better into the fatter teams that do exist due to less talon and the things that do annoy it, such as 
and 
, being more exploitable than pre home.
The drop off of and 
made it so that its synthesis could usually get it that 50% back, as well as rising meaning its access to spikes is a lot more important. Also checks some important threats like , 
, , etc.
i already made a whole post on this so ill just link it here
, but also and These mons really did not like the pre home meta,
hated all the and fat balances, hated the sand and its access to spikes weren't as valuable due to the the existence of who set them easily, and didnt have much for applicable roles.However, after the home meta arrived, the meta shifted in a way that these 3 loved.
The super fat balance cores that always annoyed it and
became much less prevalent, as well as scary threats like , , , etc. entered the tier. Making lokix's tinted lens first impression a lot better for picking off threats. Not to mention the fact that lokix matches up a lot better into the fatter teams that do exist due to less talon and the things that do annoy it, such as and , being more exploitable than pre home.The drop off of
and made it so that its synthesis could usually get it that 50% back, as well as rising meaning its access to spikes is a lot more important. Also checks some important threats like , , , etc.i already made a whole post on this so ill just link it here
Anyways i know this isnt related to any questions nor is it a question itself, but i always find it neat that while normally the addition of new threats kick down old mons, sometimes it makes some better.
This mon is actually solid, its bulk and resists are quite useful for dealing with scary threats like,
with static para slowing it down. Speaking of static, while it does take a sizable amount of damage from a some of the things it comes in on, the contact moves hitting it give a good way to fish for paralysis on the previously stated mons.
Checking mons like this gives bellibolt a very solid role against offensive mons that are threatening to many teams. Providing pretty decent speed control without even needing a move that paralyzes things is a pretty neat trait as well, especially since it can paralyze things for clicking u turn, which is big for some mons that are threatened by various fast pivots. Examples being, who really appreciates the birds that outrun it being slowed down so it can actually force them out rather than be forced out by them, and maybe
Heres the set ive been running
Frob (Bellibolt) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Muddy Water
- Tera Blast
- Slack Off
Volt Switch is just for pivoting, nice for when you come in on a
Muddy water is good for grounds as it 2 shots all of them (exceptbut im getting there) which means volt is easier to click.
Tera grass blast is just good for
Slack off is pretty self explanatory lol.
Other calcs that i find neat
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 151-178 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 187-221 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 148-175 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Bellibolt: 159-187 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Some replays of Bellibolt from UUWC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-709635
Bellibolt didnt do much here but people able to absorb sciz bullet punch and drawing in the donphan to kill it with muddy water to end the game was good
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-710003
From turn 17-22, it kept the nasty plot torn at bay while healing, then hit torn hard with volt to bring in talon to threaten it. Also kept torn from trying at turn 12 with just its presence in the back
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-712465
Turn 1 para on torn let lokix go crazy to soften up the team for gzap (also kept drawing in gastro for lokix to abuse)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-713763
Got a para and 60% on treads turn one and grabbed momentum on torn few times.
(Probably not too relevant but i figured itd be neat to point out that bellibolt had a 100% win rate in UUWC)
Anyways, heres a team i made with bellibolt if anyone wants to try it
https://pokepast.es/84d328074830014e
The reason i nommed it for a pretty big jump is that i feel its consistency is at least on par with the mons in B rank and imo probably higher (id even say its more consistent than some of the B+ ranks like
Now i can understand if people are against a big jump or if the viability rankings are gonna be a bit more hesitant to raise a mon thats so low based off what one person says, but im telling you, bellibolt is the belligoat.
I'll explain this. For reference, we had 13 members of the VR team vote this update (some chose to abstain). To change a rank, a Pokemon needs a 7/13 majority to do so (simple majority in general). The reason Tornadus is S and Iron Treads is S- is the notable difference in their votes between S and A+ despite both having a majority.
Tornadus had 7 votes for S, 3 votes for S-, and 3 votes for A+. It was always going to be S especially since it had a majority of S votes even compared to S-/A+.
Meanwhile, Iron Treads had 7 S/S- votes and 6 A+/A votes. Here, Iron Treads still does have majority support to rise into S, but because the vote is much more closer (7/13 for S/S- against 10/13 for S/S- is a large difference) we decided that based on the results it was more fair to place Iron Treads in S- for now. I hope this helps.
And with that, this thread will be locked for the foreseeable future! When the meta settles with the changes from the new moves, it will be opened again, so stay tuned for then. Thank you so much to those who stepped up to answer questions in this thread! I really appreciate your contributions!
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