Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Fragmented

Fragmented

procrastinating...
is a Pokemon Researcher
Lectrys said:
Thanks for finding that Toxic Debris activates after Mortal Spin clears hazards!

Does Toxic Debris similarly activate after Rapid Spin clears hazards? Pokemon Showdown had Toxic Debris activate before Rapid Spin clears hazards last time I loaded Great Tusk/Iron Treads into Glimmora.
Click to expand...
Toxic Debris does activate before Rapid Spin clears hazards, and so does Mortal Spin. I watched the VOD and that still seems to be the case. Might be a typo on DaWoblefet's part.

Chameleon said:
I don't think this has been asked yet, hopefully! How does Revival Blessing interact with
- Mimikyu's busted Disguise (does it come back?)
- Eiscue's Noice Face (does it return to Ice Face?)
Click to expand...
Eiscue revived with Noice Face after Ice Face got busted, Mimikyu revived with busted Disguise
 
Lunos

Lunos

... Hi. Again.

I came here to bother you guys with some more questions!

1) In a situation where there's a Pokémon with Quark Drive holding an Electric Seed and an electric terrain is invoked by the move Electric Terrain, what happens first? Does the Pokémon's Quark Drive activate its announcement, or does their Eleectric Seed take priority?
EDIT2: I was able to test this myself thanks to PKHeX!
When a Pokémon with Quark Drive holding an Electric Seed uses Electric Terrain, the ability activates first, and then the Electric Seed kicks in


2) Does Teatime get blocked by Crafty Shield?
EDIT: Nevermind about this one. I left a post at the SwSh Mechanics Thread as Mattgcn suggested down below, but I also ended up being able to test it myself. Teatime is not affected by Crafty Shield, in case anyone's curious :)

3) Still talking about Teatime, does it trigger Symbiosis?

Thanks in advance!
And sorry. I don't like having to bother you all, but I just don't know of a better way to learn about the edge cases of moves and abilities in the official games myself.
 
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Aqua Jet

Aqua Jet

Boba Bitch
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Replay | Evidence
Between each hit, the message "it's not very effective..." doesn't come up. It only happens at the end.

Sorry I wasn't able to embed the evidence directly into the post :smogduck:
 
Fragmented

Fragmented

procrastinating...
is a Pokemon Researcher
Just compiling some Anger Shell mechanics here (it pretty much is similar to Berserk):
  • Does not proc against an opponent with Sheer Force
  • Can proc more than once in a battle
  • Does not proc from status damage which brings Klawf to under half health. I'll assume indirect damage doesn't proc Anger Shell, similar to Berserk.
  • Anger Shell procs at the end of a multi-hit move as mentioned here
Aqua Jet said:
Replay | Evidence
Between each hit, the message "it's not very effective..." doesn't come up. It only happens at the end.

Sorry I wasn't able to embed the evidence directly into the post :smogduck:
Click to expand...
Didn't get any "it's super effective" messages coming up everytime I got hit by Bullet Seed as well. However, I used Endure and the "It endured the hit" message or something like that appeared multiple times.
 
Maelmc

Maelmc

I wanted to try the interaction between Revelation Dance and a Typeless user, and I discovered some interesting stuff. I apologize if some/all of them where already known (pretty sure if they were known they weren't tested again in gen 9 so I guess it's not a waste of time anyway).
  • A typeless Pokémon using Revelation Dance uses a typeless revelation dance (tested with a Jolteon against a Sandygast)
  • A typeless Pokémon shows as being Normal type in menus, despite being typeless according to Revelation Dance
  • Ditto morphing into a typeless Pokémon becomes Normal type and uses a Normal-type Revelation Dance (Oricorio Sensu was immune to it)
I recorded all of it in this video and I added timestamps for what I believe are the important moments, you can still watch all of it if you want.
 
Maelmc

Maelmc

Does anyone have a list of stuff that has been tested, and another one of stuff that needs to be tested/people asked for them to be tested ? I don't really want to go through 26 pages of discussion and have to figure out what has been answered and all, but I'm willing to test some mechanics
 
hotdogturtle

hotdogturtle

Someone that I watch mentioned this interaction happening to them and I'm requesting additional investigation.

They said that if you Encore someone into a priority move while Psychic Terrain is up, the first turn use will hit instead of being blocked by terrain.

(Possible setup)
You switch in Psychic Surge Indeedee on the same turn that Dragonite uses Extremespeed
You click Encore and Dragonite clicks a non-priority move (knowing that Espeed will fail)
Indeedee outspeeds and uses Encore, Dragonite gets locked in and automatically uses Espeed instead of the move that it clicked
Espeed hits Indeedee (when you would expect it to fail due to terrain)
Future uses of Espeed will fail as expected

One theory was that the game is using priority from the clicked move instead of the executed move, treating it as +0 priority.
 
Maelmc

Maelmc

hotdogturtle said:
Someone that I watch mentioned this interaction happening to them and I'm requesting additional investigation.

They said that if you Encore someone into a priority move while Psychic Terrain is up, the first turn use will hit instead of being blocked by terrain.

(Possible setup)
You switch in Psychic Surge Indeedee on the same turn that Dragonite uses Extremespeed
You click Encore and Dragonite clicks a non-priority move (knowing that Espeed will fail)
Indeedee outspeeds and uses Encore, Dragonite gets locked in and automatically uses Espeed instead of the move that it clicked
Espeed hits Indeedee (when you would expect it to fail due to terrain)
Future uses of Espeed will fail as expected

One theory was that the game is using priority from the clicked move instead of the executed move, treating it as +0 priority.
Click to expand...
Tested. The move does not fail but doesn't keep its increased priority. As you guessed, priority order seems to be determined before Encore happens, so it is indeed using the priority of the clicked move. A similar bug happened in gen 8, where if you clicked a priority move but got Encored before using it, the last move you used would have an increased priority regardless of its own priority. Some people used that to increase a Zacian's Behemoth Blade priority by using Quick Attack and getting Encored by Prankster Whimsicott, tho I can't find a team or a replay. I guess this bug still works, tho it's midnight here and I won't ask my friend to try it now lol
 
razorsharp3000

razorsharp3000

Just to confirm, Shield Dust blocks Salt Cure's effect, correct? Unfortunately, all users of Shield Dust are Bugs and get wrecked by Garganacl, but anyway...
Also do Shield Dust and Covert Cloak work the exact same way i.e. one is just the item form of the other, or are there any differences?
 
Anubis

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
M24 said:
Are the 5 Revavroom forms theoretically available to be used by the player?

Or is it a similar deal to the manner Eternamax-Eternatus is implemented in Sword and Shield?
Click to expand...
Bit late, but the boss Revavroom look to be entirely custom mons that are generated on top of the previous mons in the battle.

For example, vs. Giacomo, you fight a level 21 Pawniard with 25 IVs across the board and Hardy nature.

Afterwards, you come up against a level 20 "Revavroom" with 0 IVs and EVs across the board, Serious Nature.
Its stats are: 160 HP / 36 Attack / 47 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 38 Special Defense / 129 Speed
These are pretty interesting for a level 20 Revavroom.
1673054914203.png


What's extra fun is that the Species on the battle data is still Pawniard, which suggests to me that they simply edited the values into a custom car when transitioning into the battle. (And maybe why you're not given a chance to switch Pokémon?)

Whatever they did to create the custom Revavroom isn't the same as creating regular mons, which explains why they're not in any trainer team dumps and why people can't hack them in -- you'd be creating something entirely custom if you want to copy it.

Here are all the stats (actual stats, not base stats) for the different Revavroom. They obviously don't make sense with the IVs/EVs/Nature.
Code: 
Dark: Level 20, Intimidate,   Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 160 / 36 /  47 / 35 / 38 / 129
Fire: Level 26, Speed Boost,  Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 204 / 49 /  60 / 29 / 51 / 128
Pois: Level 32, Toxic Debris, Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 252 / 60 /  80 / 50 / 70 / 130
Fair: Level 50, Misty Surge,  Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 380 / 90 / 120 / 70 / 90 / 132
Figh: Level 56, Stamina,      Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 408 / 95 / 120 / 80 / 85 / 131
 
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CPU

Anubis said:
Bit late, but the boss Revavroom look to be entirely custom mons that are generated on top of the previous mons in the battle.

For example, vs. Giacomo, you fight a level 21 Pawniard with 25 IVs across the board and Hardy nature.

Afterwards, you come up against a level 20 "Revavroom" with 0 IVs and EVs across the board, Serious Nature.
Its stats are: 160 HP / 36 Attack / 47 Defense / 35 Special Attack / 38 Special Defense / 129 Speed
These are pretty interesting for a level 20 Revavroom.
View attachment 481766

What's extra fun is that the Species on the battle data is still Pawniard, which suggests to me that they simply edited the values into a custom car when transitioning into the battle. (And maybe why you're not given a chance to switch Pokémon?)

Whatever they did to create the custom Revavroom isn't the same as creating regular mons, which explains why they're not in any trainer team dumps and why people can't hack them in -- you'd be creating something entirely custom if you want to copy it.

Here are all the stats (actual stats, not base stats) for the different Revavroom. They obviously don't make sense with the IVs/EVs/Nature.
Code: 
Dark: Level 20, Intimidate,   Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 160 / 36 /  47 / 35 / 38 / 129
Fire: Level 26, Speed Boost,  Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 204 / 49 /  60 / 29 / 51 / 128
Pois: Level 32, Toxic Debris, Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 252 / 60 /  80 / 50 / 70 / 130
Fair: Level 50, Misty Surge,  Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 380 / 90 / 120 / 70 / 90 / 132
Figh: Level 56, Stamina,      Serious Nature, all 0 IVs/EVs, 408 / 95 / 120 / 80 / 85 / 131
Click to expand...
I think stuff like this is super interesting, so I calculated what the approximate "stats" would be for these mons.

Dark
HP: 325-327
Attack: 78-79
Defense: 105-107
Special Attack: 75-77
Special Defense: 83-84
Speed: 310-312
BST: 976-986

Fire
HP: 324
Attack: 85-86
Defense: 106-107
Special Attack: 47-48
Special Defense: 89-90
Speed: 237-238
BST: 888-893

Poison
HP: 329
Attack: 86-87
Defense: 118
Special Attack: 71
Special Defense: 102-103
Speed: 196
BST: 902-904

Fairy
50, 380 / 90 / 120 / 70 / 90 / 132
HP: 320
Attack: 85
Defense: 115
Special Attack: 65
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 126
BST: 796

Fighting
56, 408 / 95 / 120 / 80 / 85 / 131
HP: 306
Attack: 81
Defense: 103
Special Attack: 67
Special Defense: 72
Speed: 113
BST: 742
They would all be invalid as actual Pokémon because of HP (and, in Dark's case, Speed), but they definitely look like they're a way of creating a Pokémon like Eternamax Eternatus without having to be limited by base stat values. I guess they preferred having obscene HP values over slightly increasing Defenses to approximate the equivalent bulk.

I like how they all have around the same speed value, so these cars that are outspeeding all of your on-level mons early in the game just end up being fast, but not absurdly so, by the end. I also like how the Fighting Starmobile has definitively worse stats than the Fairy one in everything except... Special Attack???
 
Karthik

Karthik

time heals all
is a Programmeris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Did some testing with Orichalcum Pulse/Hadron Engine, specifically the messages that play when they activate.

- Similar to the paradox abilities, they can't be skill swapped or ignored by things like Neutralizing Gas.
- Orichalcum pulse shows the default sun start message ("The sunlight turned harsh!"), but Hadron Engine does not show the default electric terrain start message ("An electric current ran across the battlefield!").
- The abilities only show an activation message on switch in. For example, manually setting up sun with Sunny Day will not make Orichalcum Pulse show its activation message. They also show the activation message even if the abilities don't get a boost due to holding Utility Umbrella/Air Balloon.
- The message order of Orichalcum Pulse vs Protosynthesis and Hadron Engine vs Quark Drive is also strangely different

Orichalcum Pulse and Protosynthesis
Orichaclum Pulse popup
The sunlight turned harsh!
The harsh sunlight activated [POKEMON]'s Protosynthesis!
[POKEMON]'s [STAT] was heightened!
[POKEMON] turned the sunlight harsh, sending its ancient pulse into a frenzy!

Hadron Engine and Quark Drive
Hadron Engine popup
[POKEMON] turned the ground into Electric Terrain, energizing its futuristic engine!
The Electric Terrain activated [POKEMON]'s Quark Drive!
[POKEMON]'s [STAT] was heightened!
 

AztecCroc

Karthik said:
Did some testing with Orichalcum Pulse/Hadron Engine, specifically the messages that play when they activate.

- Similar to the paradox abilities, they can't be skill swapped or ignored by things like Neutralizing Gas.
- Orichalcum pulse shows the default sun start message ("The sunlight turned harsh!"), but Hadron Engine does not show the default electric terrain start message ("An electric current ran across the battlefield!").
- The abilities only show an activation message on switch in. For example, manually setting up sun with Sunny Day will not make Orichalcum Pulse show its activation message. They also show the activation message even if the abilities don't get a boost due to holding Utility Umbrella/Air Balloon.
- The message order of Orichalcum Pulse vs Protosynthesis and Hadron Engine vs Quark Drive is also strangely different

Orichalcum Pulse and Protosynthesis
Orichaclum Pulse popup
The sunlight turned harsh!
The harsh sunlight activated [POKEMON]'s Protosynthesis!
[POKEMON]'s [STAT] was heightened!
[POKEMON] turned the sunlight harsh, sending its ancient pulse into a frenzy!

Hadron Engine and Quark Drive
Hadron Engine popup
[POKEMON] turned the ground into Electric Terrain, energizing its futuristic engine!
The Electric Terrain activated [POKEMON]'s Quark Drive!
[POKEMON]'s [STAT] was heightened!
Click to expand...
Are you sure the message order wasn't caused by speed order?
 

AztecCroc

Karthik said:
Yes. I tested the Orichalcum Pulse vs Protosynthesis interaction against a wild Brute Bonnet and the same order occurred.
Click to expand...
I guess it's because the Hadron Engine message replaces the standard Electric Terrain message while Orichalcum Pulse doesn't replace the standard sun message?
 
Lectrys

Lectrys

If a Good as Gold user targets a Magic Bounce user with a targeted status move (e.g. Thunder Wave), that move gets bounced back, but is the Good as Gold user successfully hit with the move (a la the Magic Bounce mirror)?

(This is mostly relevant for Gen 9 The Loser's Game, although Gen 9 Pure Hackmons might have this interaction occur every once in a while.)
 

CPU

Not really sure where to ask this, but how exactly does the game apply the "move last" effect that Mycelium Might/Stall/Lagging Tail/Full Incense uses? It can't be simply a Speed modifier because they still move last in Trick Room, and it's not a priority modifier. Does the game just manually set the Pokémon to move last of all moves in that turn?
 
Maelmc

Maelmc

CPU said:
Not really sure where to ask this, but how exactly does the game apply the "move last" effect that Mycelium Might/Stall/Lagging Tail/Full Incense uses? It can't be simply a Speed modifier because they still move last in Trick Room, and it's not a priority modifier. Does the game just manually set the Pokémon to move last of all moves in that turn?
Click to expand...
You move last in your priority bracket. If multiple mon have Mycelium Might/Stall/Lagging Tail then the fastest moves first etc
 

CPU

I understand how it functions in-game, I'm asking how the code applies the effect/what it's actually changing internally.
 
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