Resource Scarlet & Violet BSS Discussion

[luisin]

amazing art by RavioliQueen!

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This thread is for anything related to BSS!
Here we are going to discuss about the BSS metagame for the next few years, strategies, teams, sets, etc!

THIS THREAD IS FOR METAGAME DISCUSSION/OBSERVATIONS. Questions should go in the Simple Questions thread.


What is Battle Stadium?

• Battle Stadium is the collection of online ranked modes on the Switch games themselves. The modes are 3v3 Singles (BSS) and 4v4 Doubles aka The Official VGC Ladder (discuss that in the proper forum). In all modes - barring some special formats - you bring 6 Pokemon and choose the required amount at team preview.
  
  
• Standard Rules
  • Matches will be played in the Singles.
  • All Pokémon will be set to Level 50 automatically.
  • Players pick 3 of their 6 Pokemon at team preview.
  • Species Clause: No two Pokemon in the same team can have the same National Pokedex number.
  • Item Clause: No two Pokemon in the same team can hold the same item.

 

[DerpySuX]

 

[luisin]

I'm going to open this thread by saying that Quaquaval looks pretty nice this new metagame, because you know, amazing signature move

plus MOXIE, Quaquaval signature move is basically a flame charge but viable + 120 ATK, Water/Fighting is a great typing, in general I think Quaquaval is the best of the 3 starters by far.

Now my favorite starter (not furry)

Meowscarada, I have nothing to say, PROTEAN, the cat is basically a greninja in USM and a cinderace in SS, amazing speed and great attack
ALSO

we just need to see if the cat learns any move that give a boost in attack and were fine.

I won't give much mention to the following ones but I feel they will be amazing:

SALAMENCE, aka Roaring Moon

Gallade, aka Iron Valiant

I will post more opinions in the week

 

[luisin]

View attachment 464353

 

[DerpySuX]

Now my favorite starter (not furry)

Meowscarada, I have nothing to say, PROTEAN, the cat is basically a greninja in USM and a cinderace in SS, amazing speed and great attack
ALSO
View attachment 464354
we just need to see if the cat learns any move that give a boost in attack and were fine.

Silly luisin, all spriggy stans are furries!

anyway
Protean has apparently been hit with the nerf hammer unfortunately. It only works one per time you hit the field, so it seems the optimal set for Meowscarada will be a choice item (assuming this nerf is real). Unfortunate that they nerf the ability when my favorite starter gets it, but hopefully it won’t hold it back too much.

 

[Theorymon]

IIRC from the patch that came out, Meowscarada got Trick in its learn up movepool, so that really makes me lean towards using it choiced in addition to the Protean nerf. I don't think it sounds as nuts as Cinderace was last gen though, but hey no Dynamax does that to ya! It does get Play Rough and U-turn at least though.

Some other quick things of note (I will have WAY more thoughts later, just a bit overwhelmed with the leak info lol)

-Skelledirge gets Slack Off via an egg move. so maybe it could be a decent Unaware mon? OFC there was a nerf to all recovery moves down to 8 PP. so I'm still not super confident in it, especially since it'd likely have to tera to win a lot of match ups. As an Unaware mon, it is pretty bulky though!

- Speaking of Unaware, Dodonzo gets that too, and is BY FAR the bulkiest with 150 HP / 115 Def / 65 SpD. It lacks recovery but it does have 100 Base Attack. I def want to do calcs with this thing to see if it can 1v1 a lot of stuff with a more offensively bent Chesto Rest set.

- Protosynthesis activates in sun, and Quark Drive activates under Electric Terrain. The auto sets we got for that are Torkoal and Pincurchin respectively... not exactly incredible. However, these two abilities can also be activated with a specific consumable item called Booster Energy, so that might sense for people trying to say, get a late game sweep with Roaring Moon!

 

[Butch Hardnight]

you: let's start with the starters

me, an intellectual: 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Bellibolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 172-203 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (manually applying the charge effect by doubling the base power of tbolt)

 

[DerpySuX]

you: let's start with the starters

me, an intellectual: 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Bellibolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 172-203 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (manually applying the charge effect by doubling the base power of tbolt)

I will now run just enough SpD to not die to this :)

 

[Butch Hardnight]

I will now run just enough SpD to not die to this :)

bellibolt gets soak, so good luck

 

[DerpySuX]

bellibolt gets soak, so good luck

tera ground vaporeon time

 

[Butch Hardnight]

tera ground vaporeon time View attachment 465433

tera grass for dual soak action

 

[DerpySuX]

tera grass for dual soak action

 

[TheMantyke]

Mimikyu's back, this time with freakishly detailed burlap sack textures.

Given the state of early Gen 8 BSS, I think it's fair to reason things are gonna revolve around this dude a good bit for a little while. The disguise insurance policy is just such a crazy nice luxury as always stepping into the unknown. We're also terribly short on Mold Breaker Pokemon. Haxorus is still around so I guess you can terastalize him into a Steel-type? Interesting enough Tinkaton was catching some understandable flack for its stat spread, but it's one of our few Mold Breaker Pokemon and will atomize Mimikyu with the ridiculous hammer attack.

Flutter Mane seems ridiculous and Dragapult seems just as nuts as last time early on, and I think there's a solid chance they'll get Mimikyu even more popular like SWSH's early days answering Pult. I am not looking forward to tanking all these ghost types moves... So maybe Garganacl has a home here early on? You get a ghost resist in your ability, Stealth Rocks, Recover, plenty of coverage options, and I don't know, maybe be a weird sturdy custap lead if we find it in the base game (doubtful). A big slow rock type is not something I'm particularly fond of going to bat for, but ghost resistances seem super valuable early on.

Really interesting to see how Terastalizing plays out and what stuff it brings up and down on its mechanics. Loved seeing some weirder mons get their time in the sun with Dynamax last gen. Here's hoping all the potential options Tera stuff brings ends up not getting smothered by the adaptability boost and leads to some neat Pokemon seeing play!

 

[DerpySuX]

Honestly Tinkaton’s stats don’t look that bad imo. Especially when you consider that after factoring STAB, a resisted Gigaton Hammer is equivalent in strength to getting hit by Close Combat.

They could definitely be better, yeah, but I think as a Fairy remover or hell, even just a general wallbreaker, this thing will do just fine as long as you’re not relying on it to nuke everything like a MMaw or Zacian

 

[zapper22001]

Terastalize + Priority move seems like a good combo. Stuff like Tera Normal Dragonite with Extreme Speed and Tera Ghost Mimikyu with Shadow Sneak should be strong. Terastalize seems as much of if not more of a pain to play around than Dynamax. I am not really sure which mons want to run Tera Power. Something like Chi Yu doesn't have a diverse movepool but the moves it has along with its stats seem good enough to already beat most things.

Iron Hands feels a little underrated/overlooked. A bulky set with Swords Dance/ Drain Punch/ Thunder Punch/ Ice Punch could work and you beat both Corviknight and Toxapex. You lose to both forms of Quagsire and Skeledirge but I do not think they will be too popular. Not exactly sure how big the boost of Punching Glove is though so maybe you would run an Assault Vest set with Close Combat instead.

For Paradox mons in general, it will be interesting to see if you want to lose some EVs in your offenses in order to guarantee the speed boost from Booster Energy. Probably need to wait until the meta settles down a bit and you can figure out which threats you need to beat. Torkoal seems more viable than Pincurchin, but I think you will still mostly rely on Booster Energy to get some type of endgame sweeper. Running multiple Paradox mons to disguise which one you are running Booster Energy on could be a nice mindgame but it sucks that you will probably never make use of your ability. It might be worth to run both an Ancient Paradox and Future Paradox if your opponent decides to go with a Sunny Day or Electric Terrain strat and you can take advantage/punish.

 

[DerpySuX]

Personally I think Terastalizing will be more balanced than dynamax. I can see it being super chaotic at first, while people experiment with different tera mons/types, but eventually we’ll find some kind of stability. On top of that, I think a chunk of mons that want to terastalize will be giving up a huge part of their viability in their typing. For example, if you want to terastalize Landorus, you’ll be giving up its incredible dual immunities to ground and electric that give it so much opportunity to switch in, as well as losing some key resists depending on what type you choose to become.

It seems like a pretty nutty mechanic at first glance, but at least this time around there are genuine downsides for most mons (in theory, well ofc have to see how it plays out).

 

[Theorymon]

So here are the returning Pokemon that might be relevant to Battle Stadium Singles! Note that I will include what seem to be home transfers on the bottom as well, because this game has a LOT of those. I'll also be pretty lenient: don't take this as "all these mons will be good", I assure you many of them will fall behind, I just want to be wide reaching for the purposes of team planning! Also note: everything learns Tera Blast lol

Also to be clear: Ability Patch is in the game, so all hidden abilities should be available!

Also before I start, let's look at some common new moves mons got!

New Moves

Trailblaze: 50 BP Physical Grass move that boosts Speed by 1 stage

Chilling Water: 50 BP Special Water move that reduces the foe's Attack by 1 stage

Ice Spinner: 80 BP Physical Ice move that removes terrain.

Pounce: 50 BP Physical Bug move that reduces the foe's Speed by 1 stage

Chilly Reception: Sets up Snow, then switches out.

Returning Pokemon

Full list (gen 1-5) https://pastebin.com/VbP2Md04

(Gen 6-9) https://pastebin.com/pghsfRYm

Cloyster

Gained: Defense boost from Snowy weather

Slowbro

Gained: Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Gengar

Chansey

Lost: Softboiled is now 8PP. Minimize

Gyarados

Lost: Power Whip

Ditto

Vaporeon

Gained: Calm Mind, Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Jolteon

Gained: Calm Mind

Dragonite

Gained: Ice Spinner

Lost: Scale Shot, Dual Wingbeat

Azumarill

Gained: Trailblaze, Ice Spinner

Quagsire

Gained: Stealth Rock, Chilling Water, Trailblaze

Lost: Scald

Espeon

Gained: Trailblaze (lol)

Umbreon

Gained: Thunder Wave, Calm Mind, Trailblaze

Slowking

Gained: Chilly Reception, Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Forretress

Gained: Ice Spinner, Pounce, Body Press

Scizor

Gained: Close Combat, Pounce, Trailblaze

Lost: Dual Wingbeat

Heracross

Gained: Trailblaze, Pounce

Blissey

Lost: Softboiled is now 8PP, Minimize

Tyranitar

Pelipper

Gained: Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Breloom

Gained: Close Combat, Pounce, Gunk Shot

NOTE: You'll need to make sure Shroomish learns Spore before evolving, can't believe we gotta do that again....

Medicham

Gained: Close Combat, Trailblaze

Torkoal

Glalie

Gained: Ice Spinner, Trailblaze, Chilling Water

Salamence

Lost: Scale Shot

Note: it ACTUALLY kept Dual Wingbeat lol

Gastrodon

Gained: Stealth Rock, Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Bronzong

Gained: Ice Spinner

Garchomp

Gained: Liquidation

Lost: Scale Shot, Aqua Tail

Lucario

Gained: Trailblaze

Hippowdon

Abomasnow

Gained: Defense boost from Snow (which it sets!), Ice Spinner, Trailblaze, Chilling Water

Weavile

Gained: Ice Spinner, Trailblaze

Magnezone

Gallade

Gained: a new ability in Sharpness, might increase "blade" moves power by 50%? Also gained Sacred Sword.

Rotom (all formes)

Lost: Electroweb

Gothitelle

Amoonguss

Haxorus

Gained: Trailblaze

Lost: Scale Shot

Bisharp

Gained: Eviolite Boost (it is physically bulkier than Kingambit lol, and a tiny bit more specially bulky too)

Hydreigon

Gained: Stealth Rock (wtf)

Lost: Scale Shot

Volcarona

Gained: Morning Sun (hey its got recovery back lol)

Vivillon

Dragalge

Sylveon

Lost: Mystical Fire

Klefki

Avalugg

Gained: Ice Spinner

Lycanroc-Miday

Gained: Trailblaze

Toxapex

Gained: Ice Spinner, Chilling Water

Lost: Recover is now 8 PP, Scald

Mudsdale

Lurantis

Salazzle

Palossand

Gained: Chilling Water, can tera to use Water Compaction better I guess lol

MIMIKYU!

Gained: Trailblaze, Pounce, the ability to use Curse normally when under a non-ghost Tera

Corviknight

Lost: Dual Wingbeat

Dreadnaw

Gained: Shell Smash, Ice Spinner

Appletun

Sandaconda (look I just had to include this thing ok lol)

Barraskewda

Lost: Flip Turn

Toxtricity

Gained: Trailblaze (lol)

Polteageist

Hatterene

Grimmsnarl

Gained: Parting Shot, Trailblaze

Falinks

Gained: Trailblaze

Pincurchin

Gained: Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Frosmoth

Eiscue

Gained: Ice Spinner

Indeedee (both formes)

Dragapult

Gained: Pounce

Home Transfers (NOT USABLE UNTIL SPRING 2023 AT THE EARLIEST)

Zapdos

Galarian Zapdos

Gained: Trailblaze

Lost: Dual Wingbeat

Galarian Slowking

Gained: Chilly Reception, Chilling Water

Lost: Scald

Heatran

Gained: Pounce

Cresselia

Gained: Lunar Blessing (recovery move that removes status, recovery amount is unknown)

Lost: Defensive stats nerfed to 120 HP / 110 Def / 120 SpD

Tornadus (both formes)

Gained: Bleakwind Storm (100 BP Special 80 Accuracy Flying move, always hits in rain?), Chilling Water

Thundurus (both formes)

Gained: Windbolt Storm (100 BP Special 80 Accuracy Electric move, always hits in rain?)

Landorus (both formes)

Gained: Nasty Plot, Sandsear storm (100 BP Special 80 Accuracy Ground move, has a burn chance)

Greninja

Gained: Swords Dance, Liquidation, Trailblaze

Lost: Protean nerf (only activates on first turn per switch-in)

Rillaboom

Gained: Trailblaze

Lost: Grassy Glide (which is also 60 BP now lol), Superpower

Cinderace

Gained: Swords Dance, Trailblaze

Lost: Libero Nerf (only activates on first turn per switch-in)

Urshifu (both formes)

Rapid Strike Gained: Swords Dance, Trailblaze, Ice Spinner

Single Strike Gained: Swords Dance, Trailblaze

Single Strike Lost: Wicked Blow nerfed to 75 BP.

Regieleki

Glastrier

Gained: Trailblaze (lol wonder what it outspeeds)

Lost: High Horsepower (still has Stomping Trantrum at least lol)

Spectrier

Gained: Psychic, Draining Kiss

 

[DerpySuX]

- holy shit Garchomp gets Liquidation now LOL. Sad to see it lose scale shot, I always enjoyed using the SD Scale Shot set as a cleaner, but I’m sure I’ll find some uses for my favorite dragon regardless.

- It’s nice to see the eevee line getting calm mind now, as opposed to just Espeon and Sylveon iirc. I think Vaporeon might actually have some (admittedly fringe) use since it can wish and CM pass while serving as a teams bulky water.

- Thundurus looks like it could be quite the threat now that it has a special flying STAB, and Lando-I now has an even stronger ground STAB (that still gets boosted by sheer force lol)

- Medicham and Breloom get Close Combat now, that’s massive. Those two have always wanted a consistent and spammable fighting STAB. Excited to see what they can do with it.

These movepool changes look very nice overall. I’m excited!

 

[Theorymon]

- holy shit Garchomp gets Liquidation now LOL. Sad to see it lose scale shot, I always enjoyed using the SD Scale Shot set as a cleaner, but I’m sure I’ll find some uses for my favorite dragon regardless.

- It’s nice to see the eevee line getting calm mind now, as opposed to just Espeon and Sylveon iirc. I think Vaporeon might actually have some (admittedly fringe) use since it can wish and CM pass while serving as a teams bulky water.

- Thundurus looks like it could be quite the threat now that it has a special flying STAB, and Lando-I now has an even stronger ground STAB (that still gets boosted by sheer force lol)

- Medicham and Breloom get Close Combat now, that’s massive. Those two have always wanted a consistent and spammable fighting STAB. Excited to see what they can do with it.

These movepool changes look very nice overall. I’m excited!

To be fair to Vaporeon, it's pretty much got the "Calm Mind water" niche locked in from what I can tell, with Tapu Fini and Suicune being gone. It def has some bulky waters to compete with in general now that Gastordon and Quagsire get Stealth Rock (and also I sorta want to do Dondozo calcs later to see if it can 1v1 some stuff lol)

As for Garchomp, I'm mainly glad it got Liqudation because I'm very interested in Tera Water Garchomp. Mainly because, KOing a Water-type Garchomp sound's pretty hellish, and with lum it can just... set up on Hippwodon and kick its ass lol

 

[DerpySuX]

Yeah water chomp sounds scary, though I’ve always been that person that just tosses chomp out whenever an electric type is on the field, so I guarantee you that when I try out water chomp I will forget that I Terastalized it and send it into a thunderbolt LOL

 

[DerpySuX]

Personally the Tera Type I’m excited to try out with Garchomp is Fairy. You become immune to opposing dragon moves, and with STAB EQ you’ll keep the Poison and Steel types out of your face.

 

[Thick Fat Azumarill]

Hey, Avalugg also got defense increase in snow! Probably still overshadowed by mons with a better defensive typing when not tera'd, but at least it has some funny calcs like +1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow: 98-116 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

 

[DerpySuX]

Hey, Avalugg also got defense increase in snow! Probably still overshadowed by mons with a better defensive typing when not tera'd, but at least it has some funny calcs like +1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow: 98-116 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

Is this unnerfed Zacian?

 

[Thick Fat Azumarill]

Is this unnerfed Zacian?

No, it's the new 150 attack version

 

[DerpySuX]

No, it's the new 150 attack version

Oh nice, and in that case the calc will usually be even better since intrepid sword only works once per game now.

Zacian fell off smh