SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

If all SwSh IoA move tutors return, we could have Flip Turn Floatzel, Grassy Glide Breloom, Poltergiest Basculegion, Triple Axel Chien-Pao, and more effing monstrosities. Also, all IoA move tutors to return, plus Toxic
I just recoiled reading that. Ban it again; I don’t care if it’s not Anything Goes tier, if it gets Triple Axel, Chien-Pao NEEDS to go to the timeout zone.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 93-114 (38.5 - 47.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Tera Ice Chien-Pao Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 129-153 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- approx. 2HKO
That's a x4 resistance btw.
Yeah if it does get Triple Axel is 100% should stay away from OU
 
Seriously, the shenanigans with Throat Chop are dumb; Sneasel was the only other 'mon able to learn it when it was introduced for Incineroar, but it got removed from its egg move learnlist when it became a TR... Fucking lack of coordination.

And Knock Off makes sense on it as well.
Hell, it even had Throat Chop as an egg move in BDSP, where the only way to get it was Sketch it off a Heracross and breed from Smeargle

Surely at that point it's deliberate, yeah?
 
Seriously, the shenanigans with Throat Chop are dumb; Sneasel was the only other 'mon able to learn it when it was introduced for Incineroar, but it got removed from its egg move learnlist when it became a TR... Fucking lack of coordination.

And Knock Off makes sense on it as well.
SS was rampant with Egg Move and even Level Up move removals that happened if said move was a TM/TR that the Pokémon could learn. It became apparent how shortsighted that logic was as soon as BDSP came around and tons of Pokémon suddenly couldn’t learn moves that they used to be able to since their debut (the example that always comes to mind for me is Dragon Dance Altaria).

It seems that they mostly avoided this with the Pokémon that weren’t available in SS and came back in SV. However, moves that are exclusive to pre-evolutions returned, so I guess that was the trade-off.
 
Hell, it even had Throat Chop as an egg move in BDSP, where the only way to get it was Sketch it off a Heracross and breed from Smeargle

Surely at that point it's deliberate, yeah?
BDSP by & large just copied over a lot from USUM

see also: Shellder in SWSH had its egg moves truncated a lot to remove moves that it either now learned naturally, through TR or who didn't have any parents* to get it from (this is why it lost Rapid Spin). But Shellder in BDSP has every egg move it had in USUM except the ones it literally couldn't get ( Barrier + Twinneedle because it doesn't exist anymore) or because it's a TM (Avalanche, Water Pulse)

But when moving to SV, it just....reused the same egg moves as SWSH even if that move was no longer a TM/TR or no longer had issues getting it from another Pokemon*

Sneasel is in the same situation: Despite changes in the TM/TR movepool, Sneasel just has the exact same SWSH egg moves.

The move list situation is really all over the place in SV when you start looking for it.


*And no the egg moves never got updated with DLC, so even though Shellder got the parents for Rapid Spin back it still didn't get the move back.
 
God don't even get me STARTED on how bad egg move lists are now. It used to be they could update with the third game but gen 8 was two games with discrete sets and gen 9 just copied the less generous of those two. Awful stuff.
 
God don't even get me STARTED on how bad egg move lists are now. It used to be they could update with the third game but gen 8 was two games with discrete sets and gen 9 just copied the less generous of those two. Awful stuff.
In fairness, Egg Moves are a major inconvenience, so I can see why they would be cut down upon.
 
Egg moves do seem fairly vestigial at this point. With huge swaths of moves available either normally or through the nearly 200 TMs or TRs there's been less & less incentive during generations to have a lot of them much less useful ones. I remember thinking even as far back as gen 5 that egg lists seem to be much smaller and older pokemon receive fewer updates

That said they should probably at least take the time to double check some of the cut stuff.....
and probably, you know. REmember that they accidentally cut a handful of Pokemon's entire egg move learnsets entirely in SV.
 
I honestly think that Toxic's distribution in BDSP was a short term solution to revamp its distribution. I think GF had already settled on no longer having it be universal, but neither settled on a revamped learnlist yet. Basically telling ILCA "don't make this universal again, but we don't have time right now to make a proper list, so just reduce the distribution to those who can already learn it in some way". Breloom is a silly example of this approach, since at first it couldn't learn Toxic at all, until it got it as a level-up move in a prerelease patch, but still unable to learn it by TM.

I think with Toxic's upcoming reintroduction in the DLC, it will have a brand new TM learnlist with its distribution selected on an individual case-by-case basis, like with how it is for most TMs that aren't universal or exlusive to a certain group/type.

I know I might give GF too much credibility, especially considering what a hot mess the learnset data in SV is already. But it would be silly if they make it universal again after being limited in BDSP. And why bother bringing it back if it is limited to pokémon who learn it already through level-up or as an egg move like in BDSP?

Edit:
That said they should probably at least take the time to double check some of the cut stuff.....
and probably, you know. REmember that they accidentally cut a handful of Pokemon's entire egg move learnsets entirely in SV.
Ah, yes how Zangoose old egg moves got cut-pasted into the 'reminder exclusive' field.
 
Poor Luvdisc, Cacnea and Alolan Grimer
And zangoose
I honestly think that Toxic's distribution in BDSP was a short term solution to revamp its distribution. I think GF had already settled on no longer having it be universal, but neither settled on a revamped learnlist yet. Basically telling ILCA "don't make this universal again, but we don't have time right now to make a proper list, so just reduce the distribution to those who can already learn it in some way". Breloom is a silly example of this approach, since at first it couldn't learn Toxic at all, until it got it as a level-up move in a prerelease patch, but still unable to learn it by TM.

I think with Toxic's upcoming reintroduction in the DLC, it will have a brand new TM learnlist with its distribution selected on an individual case-by-case basis, like with how it is for most TMs that aren't universal or exlusive to a certain group/type.

I know I might give GF too much credibility, especially considering what a hot mess the learnset data in SV is already. But it would be silly if they make it universal again after being limited in BDSP. And why bother bringing it back if it is limited to pokémon who learn it already through level-up or as an egg move like in BDSP?

Edit:

Ah, yes how Zangoose old egg moves got cut-pasted into the 'reminder exclusive' field.
R.I.P Zangoose
 
I just recoiled reading that. Ban it again; I don’t care if it’s not Anything Goes tier, if it gets Triple Axel, Chien-Pao NEEDS to go to the timeout zone.
And it having lash out would make sense as well.

Zangoose had the goofier thing happen: it still has all its egg moves....as move reminder moves.

I kind of wonder if that specific oversight was a remnant of them considering putting egg moves as reminders.
I wonder, what were they on? Also, 5 days till DLC Drops.
 
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Oh jeez, that's what was up about Zangoose's weird moves from this thread forever ago. I was wondering what that was about but never looked into it


I wonder if any of the egg move oddities will ever get fixed (ideally with Teal Mask?). Hopefully the treatment of them this Gen isn't a standard that continues in the future
 
I wonder if any of the egg move oddities will ever get fixed (ideally with Teal Mask?). Hopefully the treatment of them this Gen isn't a standard that continues in the future
At this point I don't think they will in-gen.
Not 100% excluding it but most likely they'll get fixed next generation cause GF never does balance changes post-release, and despite this tecnically being a bugfix, it still alters move availability.
 
Oh jeez, that's what was up about Zangoose's weird moves from this thread forever ago. I was wondering what that was about but never looked into it


I wonder if any of the egg move oddities will ever get fixed (ideally with Teal Mask?). Hopefully the treatment of them this Gen isn't a standard that continues in the future
With the addition of new TMs it might cause them to catch some of the mistakes, at least.

Indigo Disc might get them to fix Alolan Muk, at least, since the gimmick for that one seems to be wild alolans. Might get them to review the movelists and go "wait hold on"

At this point I don't think they will in-gen.
Not 100% excluding it but most likely they'll get fixed next generation cause GF never does balance changes post-release, and despite this tecnically being a bugfix, it still alters move availability.
With DLC taking the place of 3rd versions and, you know...reintroducing old moves through TM anyway....

I think this reasoning goes out the window. This would actually be the best time to fix this even if they don't bother changing anything else.
 
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I reckon they will fix a lot of the TM oddities such as Female Indeedee not learning Trick Room via TM (can only get it from a Raid). And hopefully the Pre-Evolution exclusive moves via relearn (Spore Breloom comes to mind). They did do so with the Isle of Armor for SwSh where they gave Earthquake to Melmetal as it didn't have it prior to v1.2.0.
 

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